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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: There a quick note before we start. Most of you

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Speaker 2: love listening to ads. I know that, But if you don't,

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Speaker 2: here's an option. Subscribe to True Crime Clubhouse on Apple Podcasts.

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Speaker 2: You'll get ten episodes of Empire on Blood the Director's

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Speaker 2: Cut ad free in one week early with exclusive bonus content,

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Speaker 2: and it's a mere two ninety nine a month. Previously

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Speaker 2: on Empire on Blood everything was on the new when

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Speaker 2: you made it was in the papers all of course,

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Speaker 2: of that one.

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Speaker 1: Corner cases on today for the court's ruling. Did you

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Speaker 1: tell anybody about it before Alan Karen offered you. I

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Speaker 1: got out of jail card in a fight against crime.

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Speaker 1: It's a dirty game. I mean, Dwighten, there's a gift.

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Speaker 1: The white is an emphatical liar.

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Speaker 3: You're telling me sho okay for you to kill my

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Speaker 3: family if you had to, but telling us forbidden.

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Speaker 1: Who made that rule.

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Speaker 2: It's two thousand and three and Dwight Robinson is in

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Speaker 2: his sixth year as a guest of the New York

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Speaker 2: State Department of Corrections. He's just been transferred to Clinton

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Speaker 2: Correctional Facility, where he spots someone he knows.

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Speaker 1: I walks in the mental and I'm just looking. I

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Speaker 1: see him. He was already sitting down. I look, I

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Speaker 1: saw me, Chunk, and he saw me and he's like,

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Speaker 1: oh shut.

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Speaker 3: And I remember he was with a dude that was

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Speaker 3: real close to him and he actually said, Yo, that's

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Speaker 3: my little brother right here.

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Speaker 1: And it was like, oh, Shot, you're right. He was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, typical.

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Speaker 2: Cal Cal, the man Dwight helped convictim a double homicide.

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Speaker 2: After Cal went away, Dwight caught a body, as they say,

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Speaker 2: and now he's doing twenty five to life for murder.

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Speaker 2: So Dwight and Cal find themselves in the same prison

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Speaker 2: mess hall. I've interviewed plenty of prosecutors and detectives and

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Speaker 2: they all say this should never happen. A cooperating witness

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Speaker 2: and the inmate he helped put away, they should never meet.

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Speaker 1: He should I'm always good, you need anything?

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Speaker 3: Should I'm good, Shoul, I'm a shoe in a yall.

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Speaker 2: So Call and dwighte meet later in the yard where

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Speaker 2: on nice days inmates play basketball and lift weights. It's November,

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Speaker 2: it's cold. Call and Dwight sit on a bench, both

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Speaker 2: in green prison uniforms. Cow may seem cool to Dwight.

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Speaker 2: But really Cal is wary. He's wary of the man

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Speaker 2: who not only snitched on him, but who once shot him.

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Speaker 4: He could knife me down in a yard. You understand,

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Speaker 4: it's the same guy that just tried to kill me.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 4: For me, it's like, why, how didn't try to hurt you?

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Speaker 4: How didn't try to do.

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Speaker 1: Nothing to you?

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Speaker 4: As in fact that I want him for you what

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Speaker 4: I want for myself. I never try to cheat you.

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Speaker 4: I wanted just to hear him out, and why you know,

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Speaker 4: that's what I did.

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Speaker 1: I listened more so than anything. I don't I don't

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Speaker 1: show no anger man.

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Speaker 2: For Dwight, seeing Cal in the yard is like time travel.

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Speaker 2: They'd once been brothers in the crack trade back then.

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Speaker 2: Dwight loved being close to Cal. Maybe Dwight thought this

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Speaker 2: is a chance to start all over again.

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Speaker 1: Old.

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Speaker 3: He had a say, miscommunication bring misunderstanding, and we never communicate.

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Speaker 1: The only thing we did was let our guns talk.

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Speaker 3: So he felt like if we had just sat down

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Speaker 3: and spoke about things, maybe everything would have worked out different,

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Speaker 3: you know, And I kind of agree with that, because

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Speaker 3: again a lot of the things that we was going

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Speaker 3: through was mental. Basically, just we just like a lot.

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Speaker 3: We put a lot of things on the table. At

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Speaker 3: that point, it was we was more mature. We looked

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Speaker 3: at life different and I guess we both knew and

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Speaker 3: what we had and laws.

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Speaker 1: So it was just like from a more mature angle.

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Speaker 2: More mature. Well, yeah, they're older now. Both Cal and

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Speaker 2: Dwight went to prison in their early twenties. Now they're

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Speaker 2: adults trying to figure out the past and the way forward.

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Speaker 4: Like I was bracing myself, possibly for the worst, but

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Speaker 4: there have been some type of confrontation or whatever. I'm

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Speaker 4: watching his hands and stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: And he was like, I see that you're thinking, so

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Speaker 3: you know, we can't we just kick it in the yard.

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Speaker 3: And it was like steal sharp and still still sharp

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Speaker 3: and still great minds think alike, and that's say yeah not.

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Speaker 3: But he didn't add they just said still short and

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Speaker 3: still but I know I know what he meant.

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Speaker 2: Count remembers. Duke got emotional.

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Speaker 4: We started breaking down to me, you know, not boohoo crying,

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Speaker 4: but tears started to come to his eyes where you know,

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Speaker 4: He's like, Cal, I'm on the inside. This is what

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Speaker 4: I'll never forget what he said to me. He said, Cal,

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Speaker 4: I'm on the inside looking out. Now you're hearing no

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Speaker 4: call for this. You know what I'm saying. Whatever, I'm

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Speaker 4: gonna do, whatever I have to do. I'm gonna do

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Speaker 4: the right thing to make sure you get out here.

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Speaker 4: You're in here for something you ain't do. You know

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Speaker 4: what I'm saying. He's like, if I didn't do what

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Speaker 4: I did, I think everything would have been different.

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Speaker 3: Jill is a strange place. At the end of the day,

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Speaker 3: we went to each other. But guess what, I know you.

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Speaker 1: You know me.

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Speaker 3: These thousands of guys around us don't know us. It's

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Speaker 3: a comfort day that I know you. You see what

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Speaker 3: I'm saying. We're in a war zone. I might be

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Speaker 3: cool if these guys that I met in jail, but

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 2: You, and then it happens. Cal reassumes his role as

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Speaker 2: Dwight's big brother, a protector and true friend. Dwight points

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Speaker 2: out an inmate he is a beef with Cal. According

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Speaker 2: to Dwight, Cal says, I should slap the shit out

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Speaker 2: of him. In other words, I'm gonna take care of you, Dwight.

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Speaker 2: Once again, Dwight is in Cal's thraw. Soon enough, Cal

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Speaker 2: tells me. Dwight has a confession to make about the

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Speaker 2: Harris brothers.

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Speaker 4: He told me, you know, I was the one that

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Speaker 4: killed them.

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Speaker 5: Duels whoa from Orbit Media.

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Speaker 2: This is Empire on Blood, a story of murder, betrayal

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Speaker 2: and a man who fought the law for two decades,

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Speaker 2: and of the confession that could set him free. I'm

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Speaker 2: Steve Fishman. There is one thing that Dwight and Cal

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Speaker 2: agree on. Prison is awful.

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Speaker 1: Saves this saves this saves shit.

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Speaker 6: Same old, same old, same old shit, different taller now.

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Speaker 2: In a classic prison movie Shawshank Redemption, maybe one inmate

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Speaker 2: comes to trust another. Their situation brings them together. They bond,

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Speaker 2: take pleasure in friendship, pledged to help each other. But

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Speaker 2: the prison life that Cal and Dwight described to me

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Speaker 2: is not like that. Everyone is out for themselves, friends

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Speaker 2: are enemies waiting to happen. Hell is other inmates. Life

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Speaker 2: is not interesting anymore. The routine is crushing, the stimuli

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Speaker 2: so sparse you barely feel alive. Dwight tells me repeatedly,

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Speaker 2: I'm bored out of my skull. In prison, they say,

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Speaker 2: do the time, don't let the time, do you? Dwy

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Speaker 2: isn't so good? At that. He has a TV in

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Speaker 2: his cell, enjoys Sudoku, loves to read John Grisham novels.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes knuckleheads get into a fight and Dwight gets to spectate.

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Speaker 2: That can be amusing, but mainly he counts the days

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Speaker 2: until his first board is shot. At parole, Cal He's different.

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Speaker 2: At one point, Cal creates a resume, the idea of

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Speaker 2: a resume in prison that seems pure fantasy, But well,

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Speaker 2: the resume is impressive. He's valedictorian of his GED program,

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Speaker 2: earns thirty credits towards an associate's degree at Cornell. Cal's

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Speaker 2: only job experience has been crack distribution, but under his

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Speaker 2: resume's professional profile category, Cal writes succeeds in a highly

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Speaker 2: challenging work environment. My point is Cal can imagine a

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Speaker 2: life for himself outside of prison, and inside prison too.

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Speaker 2: Cal starts a business. He gets married. More on that later.

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Speaker 2: For now, consider how this encounter with Dwight changes everything.

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Speaker 2: Cal and Dwight former partners in the drug trade, former

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Speaker 2: blood enemies. They are now friends.

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Speaker 3: No in a strange land where jail is not Kumbaya.

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Speaker 3: Jail is a dangerous place, and I know what you're

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Speaker 3: about you know what I'm about. We're going through our issues,

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Speaker 3: but in this situation you have in my back. I

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Speaker 3: feel confident and I know you feel confident having my back.

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Speaker 3: As far as this situation.

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Speaker 2: Go, Dwight promises to help Cal get out of prison.

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Speaker 2: He confesses to the crime that Cal is convicted of,

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Speaker 2: and Cal well at first, he's stunned. He'd always suspected

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Speaker 2: that Dwight brother Peter killed the Harris brothers.

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Speaker 4: You know, Peter was the guy that he was, the

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Speaker 4: gangster of the area. You know, Peter was the guy

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Speaker 4: that shot at police. Peter was the guy that didn't

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Speaker 4: have no problem with shooting at people that he had

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Speaker 4: problems with, and that was Peter.

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Speaker 2: But if Dwight is going to take responsibility for the killings,

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Speaker 2: well great. Cal won't waste time puzzling out why Dwight

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Speaker 2: would have committed the murders or why he is confessing

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Speaker 2: to them now. Cal, as his resume notes, is a

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Speaker 2: highly motivated, detail oriented self starter, and Cal gets started.

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Speaker 2: He sends Dwight to a jailhouse lawyer, who persuades him

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Speaker 2: that his confession can not be used to convict him

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Speaker 2: of the double murders. Dwight writes an affidavit saying he

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Speaker 2: killed the Harris brothers in nineteen ninety two. Cal is

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Speaker 2: represented by Legal Aid lawyers, this time, based on Dwight's confession,

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Speaker 2: they file an appeal which makes its way to the

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Speaker 2: DA's office. The appeal lands on the desk of Cal's nemesis.

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Speaker 2: That's right, Alan Karen Turtleman, the prosecutor who had turned

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Speaker 2: the hopeless case against Cal into a winner. If Dwight's

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Speaker 2: confession sticks Turtleman's brilliant work down the drain. Usually the

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Speaker 2: DA's Appeals Bureau handles appeals, but Turtleman volunteers to take

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Speaker 2: the lead on this case. Again.

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Speaker 1: You never believe for a second that this is a

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Speaker 1: real confession. Absolutely not.

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Speaker 2: So Turtleman is suspicious. I have questions too. Inmate, in

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Speaker 2: his right mind would volunteer that he committed a double homicide.

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Speaker 2: He's not stupid. He has to know that his confession

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Speaker 2: will expose him to all kinds of risk. So why

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Speaker 2: in the world would he stand up and say, hey,

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Speaker 2: I did it? Even if he did do it. I've

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Speaker 2: thought a lot about this. The Dwight, I know, is

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Speaker 2: a complicated being a convicted killer, yes, but also a

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Speaker 2: person with a deep loyalty to his own self interest

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Speaker 2: as well as a person in need of approval. Dwight

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Speaker 2: feels things deeply. He cares what other people say. He

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Speaker 2: once told me he hears Peter, his dead brother, whisper

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Speaker 2: in his ear.

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Speaker 3: I always felt like, what would this Dowd say right

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Speaker 3: now if he knew what I did?

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Speaker 1: And it always put a chip on my shoulder, go

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Speaker 1: would go?

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Speaker 7: Would Peter say?

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Speaker 1: Honestly?

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Speaker 3: He would have said, man, that I need the way

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Speaker 3: to hand of that absolutely violish hate, say, violish of

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Speaker 3: the way to handle it.

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Speaker 2: Violence. That is how you handle your business, not by

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Speaker 2: snitching to the DA, not by being a rat.

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Speaker 3: Deep down, and no, he frowned upon that. So that

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Speaker 3: always ate on that, that part of it always ate a.

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Speaker 2: Peter would be ashamed of Dwight, and Dwight wants to

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Speaker 2: make his brother proud. Yes, he'd snitched, now he'd unsnitch.

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Speaker 2: And then in addition to Peter's praise, well imagine praise

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Speaker 2: since you know Peter's dead, Dwight sees another benefit. Cal

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Speaker 2: seems to like Dwight again, and Dwight has missed that.

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Speaker 2: But the criminal justice system not especially interested in Dwight's

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Speaker 2: rekindled friendships.

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Speaker 8: And I never believed for one second that he did it,

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Speaker 8: because there ain't no way in the world he's gonna

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Speaker 8: get up and say that he did do it.

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Speaker 7: Even if he did do it, I see, yeah, that's different.

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Speaker 7: So I knew it was all bullshit, and I knew

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Speaker 7: what happened.

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Speaker 8: I knew that he got pressured, and you know, he

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Speaker 8: was forced to be enforced to say this.

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Speaker 2: After the break, Turtleman sends his right hand man to

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Speaker 2: see Dwight his mission. Undo the unsnitching. We're back with

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Speaker 2: Empire on blood. Let's leave the grim prison world with

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Speaker 2: its betrayals and fear and tedium. It's a beautiful day

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Speaker 2: in New York. Let's get on a boat. You know

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Speaker 2: this is the bron Huh.

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Speaker 7: That's beautiful. You ever think that this is a.

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Speaker 1: Boat?

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Speaker 7: Was pretty high end? What his boat? No, believe it

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Speaker 7: or not. There's an old sex as well, who it's

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Speaker 7: like brons.

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Speaker 2: Get out again, Get out. I'm on a boat on

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Speaker 2: a dock at City Island in the Bronx, just five

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Speaker 2: miles from where Dwight and cow sold crack back in

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Speaker 2: the nineties. The boat belongs to retired police detective Frank Vigiano.

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Speaker 7: I love your boat. It's fantastic.

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Speaker 1: It's beautiful.

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Speaker 7: It's beautiful here too.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's a quiet I mean it's it's really

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Speaker 2: not out.

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Speaker 7: Here in the city.

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Speaker 2: Frank is in his seventies. He's short and slim, more

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Speaker 2: Colombo than Van Dam. He served four decades in the

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Speaker 2: New York City Police Department. I ask why he became

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Speaker 2: a cop. He points across the East River to Throgsnick.

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Speaker 2: That's where he grew up. A comfortable, blue collar section

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Speaker 2: of the Bronx.

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Speaker 8: Had like thirty forty guys that we grew up with.

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Speaker 8: That most of you guys went into the service, and

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Speaker 8: when it came out, you know, there was a lot

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Speaker 8: of there was a lot of openings for the fire

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Speaker 8: and the police department. So we all everybody took the

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Speaker 8: test just to take it, and I got cold, and

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Speaker 8: you know when I said, this.

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Speaker 2: Might be fun fun. Every cop must graduate from the

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Speaker 2: Police Academy, the institution where the City of New York

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Speaker 2: turns a young person into a cop. Frank's first day

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Speaker 2: of school, it was cut short.

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Speaker 8: I remember people were running around the academy that day. Saying,

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Speaker 8: oh my ludther King got killed. I mean I was

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Speaker 8: twenty one years old. I was just at in Marine Corps.

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Speaker 8: I didn't even know who he was.

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Speaker 7: To be honest with you, man, I loved with the King,

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Speaker 7: you know. Oh yeah, big civil rights leader is probably

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Speaker 7: going to be riots.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: It's April fourth, nineteen sixty eight, and there are riots

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Speaker 2: throughout New York City. The order comes from on high,

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Speaker 2: all hands on deck, schools out. Frank and his classmates

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Speaker 2: are taken to the firing range. It's dark, you can

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Speaker 2: barely see the target. They fire off fifty rounds, and

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Speaker 2: then they are sworn in and sent to the barricades.

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Speaker 8: That night, they gave his blue hats and the gray

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Speaker 8: uniforms zero training, zero right, and they sent me out

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Speaker 8: to be besiders.

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Speaker 7: I had never been out there. I didn't know if

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Speaker 7: I hadn't been to Brooklyn.

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Speaker 2: Here's what Frank were members of that night. A long

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Speaker 2: haired Native American dude comes running by, chased by a group,

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Speaker 2: yelling that he stabs somebody. In a minute, Frank has

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Speaker 2: him on the ground. They're exchanging punches. Then something called

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Speaker 2: the Tactical Patrol Force.

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Speaker 8: Arrives, so they respond first, and you know, they literally

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Speaker 8: pummel his guide to the ground.

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Speaker 7: They throw him in a car. You say, to me,

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Speaker 7: what the hell were you doing? You know, I was

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Speaker 7: trying to open the handcuffs with the key. I didn't

295
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Speaker 7: know you could do it. You can push them through,

296
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Speaker 7: you know, and that's how you open them. Now, I mean,

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Speaker 7: how would I know that? You know what I mean?

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Speaker 7: I never had a pivode Ankov site. I had no train.

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Speaker 2: In case you didn't pick up on it. That's the

300
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Speaker 2: light in Frank's voice.

301
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Speaker 7: Oh yeah, I loved it. Front row seats and best

302
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Speaker 7: show in town.

303
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Speaker 2: Years past. Frank Vigiano rises through the ranks, becomes a

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Speaker 2: detective in the Bronx, then he gets the top investigative

305
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Speaker 2: job at the DA's office. Frank strengths me is different

306
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Speaker 2: from other cops. He doesn't like guns, doesn't believe in

307
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Speaker 2: the death penalty. Turtleman says he's more cerebral than the

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Speaker 2: average cop. Also, Frank, he's a people person.

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Speaker 8: I was nicknamed father Frank by the homicide you're supervisor.

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Speaker 7: How does that to get confessions? But again, you know,

311
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Speaker 7: to you, yeah, that was pretty good at.

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Speaker 8: That and you know that's just a not that I'm

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Speaker 8: back grate, but you get guys that have a way

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Speaker 8: sometimes of people.

315
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Speaker 2: And that's what makes Father Frank a formidable adversary for

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Speaker 2: someone like Calvin Buari. Father knows how to talk to

317
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Speaker 2: people like Dwight, how to get them to confess or

318
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Speaker 2: unconfess without even talking to Dwight. Frank believes he knows

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Speaker 2: how Dwight's confession happened. Cal threatened Dwight. This explanation is

320
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Speaker 2: easy to understand. No psychological mumbo jumbo. Prison is a

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Speaker 2: dangerous place, and in Father Frank's estimation, cal he's very dangerous.

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Speaker 2: Frank knows Cal's type cunning, ruthless, manipulative.

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Speaker 8: Most of these guys in jail. I mean, that's only

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Speaker 8: knew is try to figure out how to gonta get out,

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Speaker 8: you know. But she gotta like Calvin, that's the only

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Speaker 8: hope he has in life, is there?

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Speaker 1: Fifty is?

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Speaker 7: So what else does he had?

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Speaker 8: You know? Yeah, old girlfriends on the outside, and he

330
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Speaker 8: gets them working for him, doing shit, make a sweatshirts

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Speaker 8: for Calvin, you know. And he keeps writing letters to

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Speaker 8: defense lawyers trying to get people to take his case

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Speaker 8: and studying law books.

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Speaker 2: And you know, in fact, Frank is exactly right. Cal

335
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,879
Speaker 2: has been doing all those things and more, running a

336
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,440
Speaker 2: campaign from a prison payphone to keep his name and

337
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Speaker 2: cause alive. He's recruited people on the outside. One ally,

338
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Speaker 2: in particular, Pamela Williams visits him in prison several times

339
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Speaker 2: a week. Been doing that for a couple of years now.

340
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Speaker 6: So we get to take a picture and he get

341
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Speaker 6: down and he was like, would you marry me? And yeah,

342
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:54,760
Speaker 6: he did it. And I was like, I thought he

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Speaker 6: was joking and he's like, I'm serious.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, yeah, okay, I need to give

345
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:07,399
Speaker 2: you a little background here. When Calvin Buwari entered prison

346
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Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety five with a sentence of fifty years

347
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:15,440
Speaker 2: to life, he was despondent, angry, out of control. His

348
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Speaker 2: future wife.

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Speaker 6: Knows that when I came into his life again, he

350
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 6: didn't care. He didn't he had an attitude. He didn't care.

351
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:28,399
Speaker 6: He didn't care what happened to him, any cared what

352
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Speaker 6: he did to anybody, because here he is convicted of

353
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Speaker 6: something he really didn't do all this time, so he

354
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 6: didn't care. He really had that attitude. He showed it

355
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Speaker 6: a lot.

356
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Speaker 2: Cal spent a lot of time in the hole in solitary.

357
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Speaker 2: He was found guilty of reckless endangerment and promoting contraband yes,

358
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 2: Cow dealt drugs in prison. Eventually Cal got three more

359
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 2: years tacked onto his sentence, fifty three to life. Still

360
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 2: Pam sticks around. She drives for hours, stays overnight in

361
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 2: hotels so she can see him several times a week.

362
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 2: Several women have called me on Cow's behalf. They talked

363
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,920
Speaker 2: to me about Cow, how he listened to them, helped

364
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 2: sort out their problems, and they they showed their love too.

365
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 2: They worked for Cow's cause. But Pam, she goes above

366
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 2: and beyond. Pam was raised in the South Bronx, but

367
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 2: she knew Col's old neighborhood well very well. Her aunt

368
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 2: and uncle and cousins lived on East two hundred and

369
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 2: thirteenth Street, near the corner on Blood. Her first cousin

370
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 2: sold crack for Cow and then testified against him. Given

371
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Speaker 2: her connections, Call had reason to be wary of Pam.

372
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Speaker 6: But then and I came into lawsuit money and I

373
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,200
Speaker 6: gave him some and then some of them was hard

374
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:59,359
Speaker 6: earned savings, and I you know I did that. I

375
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 6: gave him on and how much made you give him

376
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 6: that It was twenty thousand.

377
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: At the time.

378
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Speaker 6: It was for his freedom, It wasn't really for his freedom.

379
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 6: I didn't care. I just gave it.

380
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: I gave it to him.

381
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,880
Speaker 6: Make sure that you know, post conviction is very expensive.

382
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 6: To know that, and to know that, you know what,

383
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 6: if you and I don't work out at the end

384
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 6: of the day, this is for you, for you so

385
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 6: that you don't need to depend on anybody else that

386
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 6: comes behind me, you know. And that's what I did.

387
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 9: What was his.

388
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Speaker 6: I think that's when he said, I'm a married this woman.

389
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 2: Cal's mother had given her son some advice. Love the

390
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 2: one who loves you. That way, she'll never leave you.

391
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 2: Cal took her advice. Now, Pam is no slouch. Eventually

392
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 2: she'll earn a couple of master's degrees and land a

393
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 2: big job in the healthcare industry. She's impressive. And as

394
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 2: I sit in her large corner office and listen to her,

395
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 2: I'm confused. You marry a guy who might never be

396
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 2: able to go anywhere.

397
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Speaker 6: I didn't care. That's the funny thing. I didn't care.

398
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 6: You know, we were still together. I told him I

399
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 6: would have did their life with him, like I really,

400
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 6: truly at that time loved him. I didn't think that

401
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 6: far ahead. I lived in a moment. Why are you

402
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 6: looking at?

403
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 8: Yeah?

404
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 6: I did, I really did. I don't have no regrets.

405
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 2: Prison marriages. They are not ordinary unions. No wedding planners,

406
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 2: no flowers, no band. On her wedding day, Pam arrived

407
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 2: at the prison with Cow's mother and brother. What happened?

408
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 6: He got into trouble and they say, and I get

409
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 6: married today?

410
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: And what do you think?

411
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,479
Speaker 6: I was pissed off because it was embarrassing your mother here,

412
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 6: I'm here, your brother here, and you know, they like,

413
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 6: no wedding today. He is actually being detained.

414
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 2: What did he done?

415
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 6: I don't know if it was drugs or weapon or

416
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 6: fighting or arguing. I don't know what. I know that

417
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 6: they just told me no wedding. They told me no

418
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 6: wedding today.

419
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 7: Wow.

420
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,360
Speaker 6: It's a tough ride home, A very tough ride home.

421
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 2: Pam and Cal do manage to get married a few

422
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 2: months later, and Cal discovers marriage has benefits. They have

423
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 2: some conjugal visits, kl can let his guard down. Among

424
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 2: other things. He and Pam go into business together. They

425
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 2: start a fashion business catalogs of clothes they sell to inmates,

426
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 2: Timberland Chuckers among them. Pam funnels more money into Cow's cause,

427
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars all told, that's what she figures. Col responds,

428
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 2: he focuses, gets to work on his case, and all

429
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 2: this happens before Dwight shows up in the mess hall

430
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: at Clinton Correctional Facility. Dwight doesn't just sign a confession.

431
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 2: He joins Cal's campaign. Once he was a super cooperator

432
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 2: for the DA. Now he's a super cooperator for Cal.

433
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 2: He tries to reach out to witnesses. The witnesses he

434
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 2: wants urged to testify against Cal. Now Dwight wants them

435
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 2: to testify for Cow. In November two thousand and three,

436
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 2: Cal calls Pam. Not unusual, but this time Cal says,

437
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 2: somebody wants to talk to you, and he doesn't say who.

438
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 2: The Department of Corrections records every phone call and inmate makes.

439
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 2: This is the recording of that call. Something found in

440
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 2: evidence story.

441
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm I'm about to credit wise man place nobody,

442
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 3: So I'm gonna do.

443
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 8: What I gotta do.

444
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 2: You know, Pam is now in a complicated position. She's

445
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 2: the life partner of a man who may spend the

446
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 2: rest of his life in prison. She's also the bridge

447
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 2: between the outside and the inside. Now the Dwight and

448
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 2: Call have been reunited, Dwight wants Pam to reach out

449
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 2: to her cousin and the others who testified against Cal,

450
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 2: and listen.

451
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 9: Let me explain something to you and your people that

452
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 9: are staying at the phone. Okay, So if I do

453
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 9: my point, nobody wants to give it up. That's them.

454
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 7: They don't want to give it up.

455
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 9: They don't want to be bothered. They don't want to

456
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 9: be bothered.

457
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 2: Pam is annoyed. Cal is always a handful, always demanding,

458
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 2: but this particular phone call is different. Pam has not

459
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 2: been running around telling the world that she and Cal

460
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 2: are married. She may be in love with mister Coole

461
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 2: for life, but she doesn't need everybody in her business.

462
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: Man.

463
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 3: It's like this man, right now, I'm trying to help

464
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 3: your husband.

465
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 9: Wait a minute, my husband.

466
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 2: Dwight isn't put off by Pam's reticence. He presses her

467
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 2: to reach out to the witnesses.

468
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 9: I'm not gonna stress nobody with a point, but somebody

469
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 9: will say I'm harassing them.

470
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 8: Listen, listen to me.

471
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 9: If he tell them she's calling me because she involved

472
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 9: with a dude that killed they really not gonna help you.

473
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 2: Did you catch that? They're going to say, you're harassing,

474
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 2: you're threatening Pam's right. After all, the DA believes that

475
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 2: even behind bars, Cal is a master manipulator. Cal does

476
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 2: let those who testified against him know he hasn't forgotten them.

477
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 2: He sends a couple of them birthday cards, which is

478
00:28:59,120 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 2: kind of creepy.

479
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 3: Okay, I don't wanna be staying out here ConTroll my

480
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 3: this lord night anyway, seng, I already know what I

481
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 3: did was wrong.

482
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 6: I'm gonna correct my.

483
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: That's the boblem.

484
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 9: Yeah, well, it would be nice if if the stone

485
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 9: will roll, would everybody come back.

486
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: But they gotta understand something.

487
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 9: Everybody moved on and everybody said not to be funny.

488
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 9: They happy, you understand that they they like, they don't care.

489
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 9: Y'all have to realize that not everybody can. People like

490
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 9: Man's that they go back and they go they meditate

491
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 9: and they're like this ning ain't worth thought. I'm not

492
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 9: doing nothing. That's what they're gonna do wrong. Huh Your okay, well,

493
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 9: it was nice talking to you.

494
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, the DA's chief investigator, Father Frank, is on a

495
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 2: mission undo what Dwight has done. Father Frank needs to

496
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 2: sit down with Dwight, but first he has to figure

497
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 2: out how to keep that sit down secret. That's after

498
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 2: the break, we're back with the Empire on Blood, back

499
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 2: on the boat with Frank Vigiano. Father Frank remembers how

500
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 2: hard it was to plan that sit down with Dwight. Discreetly,

501
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 2: you remember.

502
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 7: Something, you're in jail and you ain't there.

503
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 8: Everybody wants to know where are you? Right, you get

504
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 8: pulled out for something, you're pulling him out. Yeah, you know,

505
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 8: it'd be like, you know, you're home with your wife

506
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 8: in the middle of the night. You leave, like the

507
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 8: fuck you're going right, you know what I mean, I'm

508
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 8: going out. You're going out where you're going? You know?

509
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,479
Speaker 7: I mean, that's that's the way it is. I mean,

510
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 7: everybody you know, you're in a routine that you're in jail.

511
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 8: So we made it look like we're looking at him

512
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 8: for an old robbery or something to line up with him.

513
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 2: So, with a little subterfuge, Frank gets Dwight in a room.

514
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 2: Father Frank never yells, but in a quiet voice, he

515
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 2: lets Dwight know, if you help Cal, you'll never go home.

516
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 2: At least that's the message that Dwight takes away. We're

517
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 2: going to deuce you for the rest of your life.

518
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 2: Deuce that means too. Dwight gets a shot at parole

519
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 2: every two years after his minimum twenty five is served,

520
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 2: but if he helps Cal, the DA will deduce him

521
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 2: every two years.

522
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 3: So at that point I have something to think about.

523
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 3: I never put that equation that they were low blowning

524
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 3: like that.

525
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 2: So Dwight's alarmed. But Father Frank, he's not done yet.

526
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 2: Now the courtship phase.

527
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 8: It took a long time for me to win favor

528
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 8: with him. I had a visit of a couple of times. Yeah,

529
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 8: he wouldn't.

530
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 7: He stood fast to what he was saying in the beginning.

531
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: You know.

532
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 7: So what happens, Well, I called his mother and and

533
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 7: you know, and I take a shot.

534
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 2: Father Frank called Dwight's mother, told her her son had

535
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 2: confessed to a double homicide, that he joined the free cow.

536
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 7: Movement in that community.

537
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 8: From what I my experience, anyways, a lot of a

538
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 8: lot of these kids, their parents were West Indian immigrants

539
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 8: and you know, hardworking people and for the most part,

540
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 8: decent people, you know.

541
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 7: And that was the case with his mother, right, And

542
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 7: what's his mother's role in it?

543
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 8: Of course she was upset, you know, and you know

544
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 8: she's concerned like any mother would be, you know, but

545
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 8: you know, very low keyed and like, you know, except

546
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 8: the fact that the son's a bad kid and he's

547
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 8: in jail and he didn't murder, and he's going to

548
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 8: be there for the next twenty at that point, the

549
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 8: next twenty years.

550
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 7: You know, she came with me once I brought her there.

551
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 2: What was that like?

552
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 8: Well, he wasn't happy that I brought it, but I did,

553
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 8: you know, and he refused. He refused to see me,

554
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 8: which he has the right to do. But the correction,

555
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 8: you guys st him out anyway, Yeah, just technically, you know,

556
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 8: you do us some rights man.

557
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 2: You know, Dwight's mom is his strongest family connection. His

558
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 2: only brother was shot dead. No one was arrested, but

559
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 2: cal had a hand in that, right, Dwight believes so,

560
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 2: and so does his mother.

561
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 3: The next thing was, they went and told my mom

562
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 3: what was going on, and she couldn't believe it, Like

563
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 3: wait a minute, you're willing to help this guy that

564
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 3: killed your brother.

565
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: She let me know, if you help him, just live

566
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 1: your life. We don't have nothing to do with you.

567
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: So at that point.

568
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 3: Wain't on the option. It was like, you know what,

569
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 3: this guy going home turns back on me. I'm in

570
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 3: jail for the rest of your life. Guess what with

571
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 3: no family? Talk about a hard bid.

572
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 2: A hard bid. So Dwight faces a choice continue on

573
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 2: his path and lose his mom and serve out the

574
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:17,919
Speaker 2: rest of his life in prison, or recan't double cross cow,

575
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,879
Speaker 2: reap the rewards and live with the consequences. Yeah.

576
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 8: And when I said to him, then we'll move you

577
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 8: to another prison. I'll put you in eight prison you want,

578
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:31,479
Speaker 8: I said, I'll put you somewhere close to home. I said,

579
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 8: and we'll give you a new name. I said, We'll

580
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 8: change your identity, which.

581
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 7: I could have done. He said, everybody I grew up with,

582
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 7: everybody I know is in here, said, ain't I you.

583
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 8: Everybody you know is probably topsifying, And he said, but

584
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 8: everybody I know is an He said, you can't.

585
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 7: You can't change my face.

586
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 2: Frank calls in a few favors, gets quite moved out

587
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 2: of the prison population and into a special unit, a

588
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 2: protective custody unit at another prison. For Cal, it's just

589
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 2: like Dwight disappears. Prisoners are transferred all the time, and

590
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 2: now Dwight he's back on the DA's team. Frank and

591
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 2: Turtleman's team. The hearing on Col's appeal begins in two

592
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 2: thousand and five in the same courthouse where Cal was

593
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 2: convicted ten years earlier. This is the hearing in which

594
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 2: Dwight was supposed to be the lead witness for cow

595
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 2: Assistant DA. Turtleman is, as usual, smart, aggressive and in control.

596
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 2: He calls father Frank to the stand. Father Frank looks

597
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 2: over at Cal.

598
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 8: Had him staring me again, entered the whole testimony, you know,

599
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 8: and you know, well dressed, we're cool, you know, never.

600
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 7: Flatlined the whole time. But he's a crazy He's he's

601
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 7: a cold, calculated killer.

602
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 2: Maybe Cal looked that way to Frank, but Cal really

603
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 2: he's stunned to him. It's like Turtleman has shifted reality.

604
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 2: It's like he's taken the same set of facts and

605
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,760
Speaker 2: concocted an entirely different story from them. Those tender moments

606
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 2: of camaraderie with Dwight. Hey, that's my little brother there.

607
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 2: In his testimony, Dwight now characterizes them as subtle and

608
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 2: not so subtle displays of power, veiled threats. Why had

609
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 2: Dwight confessed, He tells the judge, I knew. If I didn't,

610
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 2: you know, my life was in danger. And then on

611
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,879
Speaker 2: the stand, Dwight repeats the whopper. Cal's legal attorneys bring

612
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 2: up Dwight's attempt to kill their client, and Dwight straight

613
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 2: faced responds, no, I didn't try to kill Cal, even

614
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 2: though he's told father Frank all about it on Frank's boat.

615
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 2: I'd confirm that. Yeah, as Dwight open about trying that

616
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 2: he tried to kill Cal, then he.

617
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 7: Told me he goes. It was my brother's fault. He

618
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 7: said that he ain't dead, he said, because he goes.

619
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 7: He told me.

620
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 2: So the authorities know, but nobody tells. Dwight gets away

621
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 2: with the lie again, and not just any lie. The

622
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 2: prosecution's lead witness tried to murder the defendant, significant detail.

623
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 2: I think, how can Dwight's perjury go unchallenged. Turtleman insists

624
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,919
Speaker 2: he personally didn't know that Dwight tried to murder cow

625
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 2: not during the first trial and not during the second hearing.

626
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 2: But I have to wonder, is this business as usual?

627
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 2: No one tells the prosecutor do inconvenient facts get dropped

628
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 2: from consideration. I went to the archives. I found a

629
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 2: case with similar circumstances. It's the Bronx nineteen ninety eight.

630
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 2: Two teenagers are convicted of murder. Someone else confesses, but

631
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 2: the Bronx DA discounts the confession. Does an investigate. Thirteen

632
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 2: years later, a federal judge rights quote, the record contains

633
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,879
Speaker 2: a number of troubling indications that the prosecution was more

634
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:15,240
Speaker 2: intent on protecting a conviction than in seeing that justice

635
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 2: was done. End quote. The judge sets the two men free.

636
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 2: The prosecutor in the case Alan Karen Turtleman in a

637
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 2: previous episode. I had asked Turtleman about this kind of thing.

638
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,240
Speaker 1: So I never got reversed for anything. Nope.

639
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 2: Maybe everyone's memory is faulty from time to time, and

640
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 2: yet Turtleman is kind of right. Okay, a judge did

641
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: reverse one of his convictions, but that occurred inside a

642
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 2: federal courtroom. It didn't affect Turtleman's career, his standing in

643
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 2: the office his annual raise. His boss stood behind him.

644
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,320
Speaker 2: The reversal. For Turtleman, it's like it didn't happen. And

645
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 2: from what I can tell, that's the rule. Prosecutors don't

646
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 2: get in trouble for this kind of thing. At Cal's hearing,

647
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 2: Turtleman knows just how to handle the question of why

648
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 2: Dwight would confess to something he now claims he didn't do.

649
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 2: Dwight doesn't have to be threatened, he has to feel threatened.

650
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 2: Remember when Cal and Dwight were in the yard together,

651
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 2: Cal offered to protect Dwight. According to Dwight, he offered

652
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 2: to slap the shit out of another inmate. Was Cal

653
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 2: really offering help or was it a way to let

654
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: Dwight know that Cal takes care of business. It's like

655
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 2: those birthday cards Cal sent to the witnesses. Turtleman can

656
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 2: tell you what their purpose is. Cal knows where you live.

657
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 2: Even Pam in this view is one of Cal's enforcers.

658
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:03,280
Speaker 2: On a prison visit, she spots Dwight offers him some food. Aha.

659
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 2: Turtleman knows what that's really about. Two harassing, threatening, He

660
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 2: tells the judge quote it was in the nature of

661
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 2: a clear threat and the message was as it was

662
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 2: with all the other threats. We know who you are,

663
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 2: we know where you are, and we can get you

664
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 2: at any time. Cal's fate once again depends on one person,

665
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:35,839
Speaker 2: Dwight Robinson. Which Dwight should the judge believe, the Dwight

666
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 2: who confessed to a horrible crime, or the Dwight who

667
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:45,800
Speaker 2: now says his confession was forced. The judge concludes Dwight

668
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 2: is credible, the Dwight who felt threatened, the one who

669
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 2: said the only reason he confessed is because he was

670
00:40:53,120 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 2: afraid of Cal, And so Turtleman triumphs again. Col's appeal

671
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 2: is dismissed. The Dwight who snitched, unsnitched, and re snitched

672
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 2: is sent to protective custody, and Cal he returns to

673
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 2: prison to serve the remainder of his term.

674
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: I mean it was a crushing blow.

675
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 2: Now Cal doesn't really put the crushing in crushing blow.

676
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 2: You just don't hear it in his voice. That's Cal.

677
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 2: But Cal's wife, Pam, she sat in the courtroom as

678
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 2: the ruling came down.

679
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 6: I was numb. I was I think I cried. I

680
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 6: probably did. I didn't want to cry for him, because

681
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 6: then he'll be worried about me. But it was a

682
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 6: blow because you're really thinking he's coming home.

683
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 2: You're going to bring him home to the house.

684
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's coming home.

685
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 4: One day when I do ride, Man, it's gonna be

686
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 4: a floodgate that I can't stop. No, because I think

687
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 4: that you know, I am kind of like repressing a lot,

688
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 4: you know, but you know, this is how I stay strong.

689
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 4: This is not a place where you can just let

690
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,720
Speaker 4: out your tears and not be looked at a certain

691
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 4: way or be considered weak. But you know, one day,

692
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 4: you know, I know I'm gonna have my day of

693
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 4: just releasing all my tears. I think I'm just trying

694
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 4: to hold on to my strength.

695
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,399
Speaker 2: Cal will have to put off his tears. His first

696
00:42:42,480 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 2: possible release date two thousand and forty eight. Next time

697
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 2: on Empire, on Blood, I stepped on the gray line,

698
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 2: which you're supposed to be on one side of the

699
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 2: gray line, and if you're on the other side of

700
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 2: the gray line, you're you're evil or bad.

701
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 7: I'm on the gray line.

702
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 2: The Bronx never forgets. I take a twelve hour train

703
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 2: ride with a private eye who carries a gun and

704
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 2: a bible. We search for the Missing Witness. The Director's

705
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 2: Cut of Empire on Blood is produced by Emil Klein.

706
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 2: Austin Smith is our associate producer and production coordinator. The

707
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 2: original production of the Empire on Blood was also produced

708
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 2: by Emil Klein. Mia Lobel was our executive producer. Julia

709
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 2: Parton our story editor, fact checking by Stephan M.

710
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 5: Daniels.

711
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 2: Our advisor was Joel Dusk. Mastering by Jason Gabreel, original

712
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 2: scoring by Joel Saint Julian and our theme song, The

713
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:06,320
Speaker 2: Lonely King is by mister Lynn. Special thanks to Andy Bauers,

714
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 2: who championed the original production at Panoply.

715
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 5: I'm Steve Fishman, go to the Blood leadsday.

716
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,760
Speaker 4: We have the burden you have, we have the burn

717
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 4: low between friends and told the last ones you hear.

718
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 2: Welcome to you, Hi there, before we go, You've just

719
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 2: listened to another brilliant episode of Empire on Blood the

720
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:46,839
Speaker 2: Director's Cut. To hear episodes of this series one week

721
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 2: early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to True

722
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 2: Crime Clubhouse on Apple Podcasts.

723
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:55,399
Speaker 1: It's just two ninety nine a month.