1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy 3 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: Biegelson and I'm Holly Frye. We have come around to 4 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,959 Speaker 1: yet another episode. Inspired by that trip I took to 5 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: Philadelphia to see the Marie Lawrence Sont exhibit at the 6 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: Barnes Foundation. One part of that exhibition focused on Marie 7 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: Lawrence Son's portraits, and there were these brief biographical sketches 8 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: of the people shown in those portraits, and one that 9 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: caught my eye was of Dominica Guilme. She was married 10 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: to Paul Guielme, who was a writer and an art 11 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 1: dealer who developed a substantial collection of artwork, and, in 12 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: the words of this brief biography quote, to ensure the 13 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: collection remained in her possession in the event of Paul's death. 14 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: Dominica needed an air after an unsuccessful feigned pregnancy. She 15 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: adopted a child, also named Paul, who she abused and 16 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: whose murder she plotted twice after her husband died in 17 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty four, which caused me to go, I'm sorry, 18 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: what like, there's a lot to unpack there. There's a 19 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: lot to unpack there and it's just, you know, two 20 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: entire sentences mentioned in this brief biography. So that's been 21 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 1: hanging out on my to do list since then, and 22 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: here we are today. So Dominica Guillome was born Juliette 23 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: Marie Leoni Lacaz on May nineteenth, eighteen ninety eight, in Avon, 24 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: in southern France. There's really very little documentation about her 25 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: early life, reportedly because she destroyed as much of it 26 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: as possible. There is some suggestion that the family was 27 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: financially comfortable but perhaps wound up losing their money. In 28 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,919 Speaker 1: other accounts, her father was a notary. She had a brother, Jean, 29 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: who got a job working for Shell Oil, and she 30 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: eventually went to Paris where she was an art model, 31 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 1: and she also got a job working in the cloakroom 32 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: at a nightclub. We know a little bit more about 33 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: her first husband, Paul Guillome, who was born at November 34 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: twenty eighth, eighteen ninety one. His father was a tax collector, 35 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,959 Speaker 1: and Paul seems to have wanted a more exciting life 36 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: for himself than that from a very early age. He 37 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: wound up getting a job at a garage, which does 38 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: not sound all that flashy, but this was a garage 39 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: that catered to wealthy clients and they imported their own 40 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 1: rubber for making tires. These rubber shipments sometimes included some 41 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: kind of African artwork or cultural object. One of them 42 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: was a mask from Gabon that sparked Guillaume's interest in 43 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: African art. So this isn't really what today's episode is about, 44 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: so we're not going to go into a ton of detail. 45 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: But people in Equatorial Africa were tapping rubber trees for 46 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 1: their sap and refining it into a usable material long 47 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: before European colonization. But in the nineteenth century, European efforts 48 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 1: to extract increasing amounts of rubber from parts of Africa 49 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: were both environmentally destructive and devastating from a human rights perspective. 50 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: This connects to King Leopold of Belgium's personal rule of 51 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: the Congo, which we talked about in our episode on 52 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: George Washington Williams that came out on February nineteenth of 53 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: this year. Europeans were also extracting artwork from Africa. These 54 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: objects that Paul Gielm was seeing in rubber shipments were 55 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: just a very few of the thousands of pieces that 56 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: Europeans took from Africa, mainly starting in about the eighteen seventies. 57 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: At the same time time, though a lot of Europeans 58 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: did not really see these works as having much artistic 59 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: worth or value. To a lot of people, they were 60 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: more like trinkets or curiosities. Museums that held African works 61 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 1: in their collections often had them in ethnography, not in 62 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: their art collections. This is something that we also talked 63 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: about in more detail in our episode on the Putative 64 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: Expedition of eighteen ninety seven and the collection of artworks 65 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: known as the Benin Bronzes. That episode came out in 66 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: January of twenty twenty two. The European perception of these 67 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 1: objects was starting to shift when Guillume was working at 68 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 1: the garage. Artists like Pablo Picasso and Arima Tise saw 69 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 1: African sculptures in places like the Trocadero Ethnographic Museum in 70 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: Paris in the mid nineteen hundreds, and these more abstract 71 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:58,799 Speaker 1: geometric pieces became a huge influence on their work. Cubism, Fauvism, Primitivism, 72 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: and other aesthetic movements were heavily influenced by African art, 73 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 1: sometimes without the artists really knowing much about the context 74 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 1: of the traditions that these sculptures had been made in. 75 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: At the same time, these artistic movements were also controversial. 76 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: While these more avant garde artists saw African works as 77 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: a source of inspiration, the artistic establishment was initially hostile 78 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: to them and their work. Paul Gillo lived in molmart 79 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: and he became connected to a lot of the writers 80 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 1: and artists who lived there, including Pablo Picasso and poet 81 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: and playwright Guilloma Polonaire. Paulinaire was really influential to Paul 82 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: Gium's understanding of modern art in Europe, introducing him to 83 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: other artists and recommending that he buys specific people's works. 84 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 1: By February of nineteen fourteen, Paul Gium had developed a 85 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 1: large enough art collection to open a small gallery, one 86 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: that was focused mainly on the work of living artists. 87 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 1: He also became one of the first art dealers to 88 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: sell the work of the Cubists. Sometimes on his own 89 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: and sometimes advised by a Pollinaire, Paul Guilloum bought the 90 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: works of then unknown artists, often paying almost nothing for them. 91 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: This included buying paintings by Maurice U Trio from a 92 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: cabaret owner. Eu Trio had given him artwork in exchange 93 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: for meals. As Guillome started to build a reputation for himself, 94 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 1: Picasso and a pollinaire went to him to try to 95 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: launch the career of Giorgio de Quirico, who had moved 96 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: to Paris from Italy. Guillome bought all of his newly 97 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 1: created artwork on an ongoing basis for one hundred francs 98 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: a month. This reminds me a lot of what Gertrude 99 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: Stein and her brother were also doing, like buying up 100 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: the works of people who had no, you know, artistic 101 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: reputation yet who later became really famous and influential. In 102 00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: nineteen fourteen, Guilloume loaned eighteen African works of art to 103 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: an exhibition that was called Statuary in Wood by African Savages, 104 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: the Root of Modern Art. This kind of language was 105 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: extremely common in descriptions of African art in the early 106 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: twentieth century. This exhibition was arranged by American photographer Alfred 107 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: Stieglitz and held at his gallery, and this was the 108 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: first exhibition in New York to treat African sculpture as 109 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: artwork in its own right. Gilm also started a magazine 110 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: called Lezard da Peri, doing a lot of the writing 111 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: himself under an assortment of different pen names. Gilm was 112 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: in his early twenties at the start of World War One, 113 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: but it doesn't appear that he served in the war. 114 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: One of the sources that Tracy used for this episode 115 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: said that he was exempted for medical reasons. By the 116 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: time the war was over, he had become extremely famous 117 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: and influential in the European art world. He held exhibitions 118 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: of European and African art, including one that included both, 119 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: highlighting the African influence on Cubism. He also became the 120 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: principal dealer of artists like Andrei Duran And In nineteen twenty, 121 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: when he was twenty eight, when she was twenty two, 122 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: Paul Gio married Juliette la Caz. He's the one that 123 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: gave her the nickname Dominica, reportedly because of her domineering personality, 124 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: and while we really don't know much about her life 125 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: before this point, it's clear that they had some things 126 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: in common. They were both from pretty modest backgrounds, and 127 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: they were largely self taught in terms of things like 128 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: art and culture. They both wanted lives that were more 129 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: colorful and exciting and affluent than the way they'd grown up, 130 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: and after they got married they got to work doing that. 131 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: They moved into a bigger, fancy or apartment. They hired 132 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: a staff of chambermaids and a chef and a chauffeur. 133 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 1: They socialized and through elegant parties and made lots of connections, 134 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: and they both had various affairs for Dominica. One of 135 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: the was with Andrea Durant, who painted a series of 136 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: portraits of her. After they were married and after the 137 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: end of World War One, Giem seems to have focused 138 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: more and more on the practical and commercial aspects of 139 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: being an art dealer, rather than seeking out and acquiring 140 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 1: the work of undiscovered, groundbreaking artists. He also boosted the 141 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 1: price by placing modern works of art in ornate seventeenth 142 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: and eighteenth century frames. This drew some criticism from other 143 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: art dealers, who saw it as artificially inflating the value 144 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: of works that were not as artistically notable. That he 145 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: was still building a collection and selling a lot of 146 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: works that were really influential, but there were people that 147 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: kind of thought he sold out. At this point. Paul 148 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: Gilm's relationship with one of his most important clients also 149 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: started around this same time. That was doctor Albert Barnes, 150 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: founder of the Barnes Foundation. To bring this back full circle, 151 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 1: Barnes was a chemist who made a fortune in pharmaceutical 152 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 1: and developed an enormous art collection. Works that Barnes acquired 153 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: through Guielm included more than one hundred African sculptures as 154 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: well as Impressionist paintings. Barnes really became Guilm's most important client. 155 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty, Paul was awarded the French Legion of 156 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: Honor Order of Merit, and he tried to open a 157 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: London office, but that did not do well in the 158 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,199 Speaker 1: wake of the Great Depression. Dominica and Paul also struggled 159 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: financially during these years, and they faced some struggles in 160 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: their relationship as well. And we're going to get to 161 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: all of that after a sponsor break. We said earlier 162 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: that Dominica and Paul Guilllme both had various relationships outside 163 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: their marriage. In nineteen thirty, Guillelm was reportedly seeing a 164 00:10:54,800 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: fellow art dealer her name was Jeanne Castel. Dominica was 165 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: involved with architect Jean Walterire, who designed hospitals, public housing, 166 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: and luxury homes and apartments. These luxury apartments included the 167 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 1: building where Dominica and Paul lived, which is also where 168 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: Jean lived with his wife and three children. Living in 169 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: the same building with his wife's lover seems to have 170 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: been a little too much for Paul, and he started 171 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 1: trying to discourage that relationship, including dropping hints that Dominica 172 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: might face some kind of retribution if she didn't put 173 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: an end to it. After he caught Dominica and Jean 174 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: in a pantry together, Paul gave her an ultimatum. Either 175 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: she would have a child, thus giving him an air, 176 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: or he would write her out of his will and 177 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: instead leave all of his money and his art collection 178 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: to a foundation. According to various sources, Dominica had a 179 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: tuba lagation before they got married, so conceiving a child 180 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: with him was out of the question, but she was 181 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: not willing to lose out on this potential inheritance, so 182 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: she faked a pregnancy by stuffing pillows under her clothes, 183 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: something that was only remotely possible because she and Paul 184 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 1: were sleeping in separate bedrooms and he was often inebriated. 185 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: Well Jude the obscure moment. Then, in nineteen thirty four, 186 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 1: Paul became acutely ill and he was admitted to the hospital. 187 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,479 Speaker 1: Various sources say this was because of a burst appendix. 188 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: He died not long after on October first, nineteen thirty four, 189 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: at the age of forty two. During his brief career, 190 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 1: he had sold and estimated thirteen hundred paintings. This made 191 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: Dominica a widow at the age of thirty six, and 192 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: a will eventually was found that left her Paul's entire 193 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,959 Speaker 1: estate valued at six billion francs, and there were, of course, 194 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: some suspicions about where this discovered will was genuine or not. 195 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: Not long after, though, Dominica became mother to a boy 196 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: named Jean Pierre, who was also known as Paulo. According 197 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: to records. He was born in Paris on November thirtieth, 198 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty four, and Dominica reportedly bought him for five 199 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: thousand francs, but she told people that he was Paul's child, 200 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: conceived before his death. There are actually some rumors that 201 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: he really was Paul's child, but with another woman that 202 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: he had been having an affair with, and then that 203 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: Dominica had arranged to take custody. Meanwhile, Jean Valtaire's wife 204 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: had learned of his affair with Dominica, but she refused 205 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: to divorce him over it, but then she died in 206 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: nineteen forty one, and on September fifth of that year, 207 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: Jean and Dominica got married. It seems like he had 208 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: not tried to interfere with her other relationships while he 209 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: was still married to somebody else, but once he was 210 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: married to Dominica, he wanted her to be faithful to him. 211 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 1: He also encouraged her to formally adopt Paulo, which she 212 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: did in nineteen forty one. At this point, of course, 213 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: World War II was under way and France was being 214 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: occupied by Germany. In addition to his work as an architect, 215 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: Jean morterire on a lad and zinc mine in Morocco. 216 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: He had gotten the rights to it as part of 217 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: a settlement for bad debt in nineteen twenty five. Initially, 218 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: this mine had not been financially successful and he had 219 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: closed it down, but he reopened it in nineteen thirty six, 220 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: as demand for those medals spiked in response to rising 221 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: international tensions. The mine had in the intervening years become 222 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: extremely lucrative and it was supplying materials needed for the war, 223 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: so Germany tried to force Jean to give up control. 224 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: He refused and was consequently arrested and imprisoned. He remained 225 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: in prison until the Allies liberated France, and there are 226 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: rumors that Dominica bribed a German official with sex to 227 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: keep Jean from being executed and to protect him while 228 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: he was in prison. Young Paulo spent most of World 229 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: War Two living in ken with a nanny. He returned 230 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: to Paris once the war was over, but Dominica really 231 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: seems to have barely tolerated his presence in her apartment. 232 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: He didn't have a bedroom and instead had to sleep 233 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: on a mattress under the dining table, and if she 234 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: was having a party, she made him sleep in the 235 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: bathtub instead. She had plenty of money, but she made 236 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: him wear various hand me downs from mostly Jane's side 237 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: of the family or old things of hers, and that 238 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: really embarrassed him because they were obviously women's clothes. She 239 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: had a reputation for being cruel and inflexible with the 240 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: household staff as well. All of this really raises some 241 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: questions about Waldair's relationship with Gyom. He had done things 242 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: like establishing a foundation to provide annual grants to disadvantage 243 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: young men with the most promising of them given life 244 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: larger grants, and eventually a job at the mine. A 245 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: lot of sources describe him as practical, philanthropically minded, and principled, 246 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: with the exception of his very public extramarital affair with 247 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: Dominica Gyllome. Not only did he have a public affair 248 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: well married to someone else, but it was also with 249 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: someone like Dominica. People did not understand his attraction to 250 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: her at all. He also stayed with her even as 251 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: her relationship with her adopted son became increasingly volatile. Paulo 252 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: apparently did not know he had been adopted until he 253 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: was a teenager and had been expelled from a series 254 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: of boarding schools for various misbehavior. It's been pretty common 255 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: at points in history to not tell people that they 256 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: were adopted, but during an argument over this, Dominica told 257 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: him he had been a foundling and that she had 258 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: no idea who his real parents were. This was clearly 259 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: something she said to him to hurt him. Although her 260 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: treatment of Polo wasn't enough for Jean Valterre to end 261 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: his relationship with her, it does seem like he tried 262 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: to protect and support Paolo where he could. After that argument, 263 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: Tracy just mentioned, Paolo left home and went to live 264 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: with Jean Saint Jacques. Paolo worked at a variety of 265 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: jobs before enlisting in the army in nineteen fifty five 266 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: at the age of twenty one as a paratrooper. Dominica 267 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: reportedly knew his commanding officer and told him to make 268 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: sure Paolo was sent into active combat, framing it as 269 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 1: wanting to make a man out of him, which has 270 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: its own problems, but based on her later behavior, perhaps 271 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: she was thinking it would be convenient if he were 272 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 1: killed in action. Around the same time, Dominica started seeing 273 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: doctor Maurice Laqueur for treatment of rheumatoid arthritis. Various sources 274 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: described Lequeur's practice as questionable. He had a reputation for 275 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: basically being a drug supplier for wealthy women. He claimed 276 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: to practice psychiatry. Home me off at the acupuncture hypnoanalysis 277 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: and a range of other specialties as well. Dominica started 278 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 1: having an affair with him, going so far as to 279 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: move him into the apartment with Jean's reluctant permission. LeCour 280 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: also treated John for some cardiovascular issues. Then came the deaths, 281 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: which started to seem suspicious. Dominica had become friends with 282 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: American writer and heiress Margaret Thompson Biddle. Margaret had become 283 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: Jean's business partner after her Neumont Mining Corporation bought forty 284 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: nine percent of Waldare's mines. Dominica and Margaret spent a 285 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: lot of time together and talked about embarking on various projects, 286 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: including starting a newspaper. On June eighth, nineteen fifty six, Dominica, Margaret, 287 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: Maurice Lequeur, and Dominica's brother Jean Lacaz all went to 288 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: the opera together for a gala performance celebrating the King 289 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: and Queen of Greece. Later that night, while getting ready 290 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: for bed, Margaret died suddenly of what was diagnosed as 291 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,360 Speaker 1: a cerebral hemorrhage. According to one of the sources used 292 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: in this episode, her office was left in disarray and 293 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: a dossier had been stolen from it, but no autopsy 294 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: was conducted, and then she was buried in Fontainebleau A 295 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: year later. On June eleventh, nineteen fifty seven, Dominica, Jean, Walterer, 296 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 1: and Laqueur were driving in the countryside and stopped to 297 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: eat at a restaurant. Dominica and Lequeur went into the 298 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: restaurant while Jean crossed the street to buy a newspaper. 299 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 1: He was hit by a speeding car, and he was 300 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,640 Speaker 1: still alive when Dominica and Liqueur got to him. Liqueur 301 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: treated him as they waited for an ambulance, but Jean 302 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: Walter was dead by the time the ambulance arrived. Soon 303 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 1: after Jean's death, Dominica, her brother, and Maurice Lequeur started 304 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: making changes at his businesses. They removed his children from 305 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: his previous marriage from the board of his foundation, and 306 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 1: they installed LaCour instead. They claimed they had found paperwork 307 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: outlining these changes in Jean Walterire's office. Although Jean had 308 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 1: kind of tolerated LaCour's presence in their lives, he did 309 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: not like that man and family members did not think 310 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: this paperwork was genuine. Dominica also put her brother in 311 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: charge of the mine in Morocco. Her inheritances from both 312 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: Paul Guillaume and Jean Valtaire made Dominica Guilleumaltaire incredibly wealthy, 313 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 1: and under French law, on her death, she would have 314 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: to leave at least half of her estate to her 315 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: adopted son. Dominica seems to have found this entire idea intolerable, 316 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 1: so at least allegedly, she decided to try to do 317 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: something about it, and we will get into that after 318 00:20:55,560 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: we pause for a sponsor break. I want to put 319 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: a caveat on the rest of this episode. Some of 320 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 1: the sources that I use make it sound as though 321 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 1: Dominica Guiel and members of her circle definitely did everything 322 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: they were accused of, and then others frame everything more 323 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: as allegations. Some of them make no reference to any 324 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: of this whatsoever. I only know of a couple of 325 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 1: books that talk about this in detail. They are both 326 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: in French, and one of them is also out of print. 327 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: A lot of the most detailed reporting in English at 328 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: the time was in the tabloids, maybe unsurprisingly, there were 329 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: newspapers that were offering shorter coverage that mostly focused on 330 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: things like the formal court proceedings and charges being filed 331 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: or dropped. But even if all the whole rest of 332 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: the episode needs the word allegedly in front of it, 333 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: it's still pretty wild. As we said before the break, 334 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: under French law, Dominica guilloum Waldere would have to leave 335 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: at least half of her estate to her adopted son, 336 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: Jean Pierre known as Paolo, upon her death. The only 337 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: way she could get out of this is if he died, 338 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: or if she had some legal justification for revoking his adoption, 339 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 1: like if he committed a serious enough crime. A lot 340 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 1: of accounts are not very kind to Paolo, suggesting that 341 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 1: he got in a lot of trouble and he couldn't 342 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: really stick with anything, and that he ran up debts 343 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: that had to be settled by Dominica's brother, and that 344 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 1: he stole from the regimental mess after he was basically 345 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: kicked out of the house and joined the army. But 346 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 1: none of those rose to the level of warranting a 347 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: revocation of his adoption, so allegedly Dominica hired a hitman 348 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: to kill him. Maurice Lequeur had previous connections to a 349 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: far right group known as Lacagour, which was known for 350 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: its ties to fascism and terrorism, and these far right 351 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: associates led Laqueur to Commandant Camille Rayon. Rayon did not 352 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: really run in these circles. He had been part of 353 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: the French resistance during World War II. He had been 354 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: part of Charles de Gaull's intelligence network. He was seen 355 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: as a war hero, not as right wing terrorists, so 356 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 1: it seems kind of weird that he would get caught 357 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: up in this at all. But according to Rayon, when 358 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: Liqueur came to him about this, Laqueur told him that 359 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 1: he was being hired to deal with somebody who was 360 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: bringing shame to his family and was a trader. Because 361 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: Liqueur alleged that Paulo was secretly working with the Algerian 362 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: resistance against the French military that he was serving in 363 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:03,479 Speaker 1: again into the real account, he quickly realized that Paolo 364 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: wasn't some kind of double agent. He'd had various disputes 365 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 1: with fellow soldiers and local Algerians, but had a reputation 366 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: for bravery and combat. So Rayon decided to string LaCour along. 367 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: He haggled over the fee, finally settling on thirty million francs. 368 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: Then he said it wouldn't be advisable to kill a 369 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 1: French paratrooper on Algerian soil. Paolo's enlistment was ending soon, though, 370 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: and Rayl said it would be better to kill him 371 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: after he returned to France. After leaving the military, Paulo 372 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: started training to be an airline steward. Rayon told the 373 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: cour that he would intercept Paulo on his way to 374 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: training and kill him. Rayon did intercept Paalo, but instead 375 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: of killing him, took him to dinner and told him 376 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: all about the murder plot. At first, Palo didn't really 377 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: believe him, but eventually Rayon persuaded him that the only 378 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: way to get out of danger was to fake his 379 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: own death. We said earlier that Jean Walterre had tried 380 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 1: to protect Paalo where he could, and Palou was still 381 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: close to various members of the Waltaire family, so he 382 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: agreed to participate in this plan only if Jacques Walter 383 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: and Jacques's brother in law Philippe Lamour agreed to it, 384 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: which they did. They also all got some advice from 385 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: a lawyer named Reneme Wati. Paolou checked into a hotel 386 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: under an assumed name, and Rayon took his identification papers 387 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 1: and revolver to Laqueur as proof that the job was done. 388 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,959 Speaker 1: He said that he had strangled Paolou, weighed his body 389 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: down with rocks and thrown it into the sin. LaCour 390 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: gave reON part of his fee of thirty million francs 391 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: and promised the rest in ten million franc installments. Although 392 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: Palou had ultimately agreed with this plan, he still had 393 00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: not been entirely convinced by Rayon's whole story. But once 394 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:05,199 Speaker 1: reON came back with this payment, Paolo believed him. They 395 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,679 Speaker 1: left Frontine on the coast northeast of Camp, where Reyon 396 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: had a home. Rayon wrote out a full account of 397 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,199 Speaker 1: everything that had happened and titled it quote to be 398 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: given to the competent authorities in the event of my 399 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 1: disappearance or death. He then gave this to his lawyer. 400 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: His lawyer read it and just sent it directly to 401 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: a prosecutor, no waiting for his disappearance or death. Meanwhile, 402 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: Jacques Walterire told Dominica that Paulo had disappeared. On February seventh, 403 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty eight, family members gathered purportedly for Paolo's body 404 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: to be transported to a cemetery. Most of the people 405 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: there were related to Jean Valtaire, and Dominica herself did 406 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:53,400 Speaker 1: not attend. Philippe Lemour filled everyone in about the plot, 407 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: and a few days later Jacques Valtaire told Dominica's brother 408 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: Jean that Paola was really alive. Once police had been 409 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: informed about all of this, they questioned both Dominica and Liqueur. 410 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: Dominica at home, and Liqueur after taking him into custody. 411 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: Both of them claimed that Paulo and Raon were conspiring 412 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: to frame them. Lequeur admitted to giving Rayl a sizeable 413 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 1: cash payment, but he claimed that that was for a 414 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: real estate transaction. This launched an investigation that went on 415 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: for eight months, and it also took a second look 416 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 1: into those earlier deaths. Rumors surfaced that Margaret Biddle had 417 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: been planning to sell her shares in the mine because 418 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: she wasn't satisfied with how it was being run, which 419 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: would have given Dominica a potential motive to have her killed. 420 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 1: But new investigation into Biddle's death ruled that she had 421 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: died of natural causes. Suspicions lingered around Jean Valtaire's death, 422 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: but no new evidence came to light. Lequeur was indicted 423 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 1: in connection to the murder plot, and an envelope containing 424 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 1: nine point five million francs that was allegedly part of 425 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 1: a murder payment was handed over to police, but Judge 426 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: Jacques Battine ultimately dismissed these charges. As all of this 427 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: was happening, Dominica again allegedly took another tack to rid 428 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 1: herself of Paolo. A sex worker named Marie Terrez Goynek 429 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: known as Mitti, had told both Paolo and the police 430 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: that Dominica's brother, Jean La Caaz, had offered her a 431 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 1: bribe of twenty thousand dollars to accuse Paolo of living 432 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: off of her earnings. So procurement of sex work was 433 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: one of the crimes that could provide legal grounds for 434 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: Dominica to revoke Paolo's adoption. After receiving this tip, police 435 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: tapped Dominica's and La Caza's phones, and that led to 436 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: La Caza's secretary, Irene Ricard, being implicated as well as 437 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: all of them discussed the transfer of a big cash payment. 438 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: Lacas did not deny giving Meti money but he said 439 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: she had approached him saying that Paolo had beaten her, 440 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: and that he owed her six million francs. So, according 441 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: to La Caaz's version, this payment was hush money. He 442 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: said that he'd been cleaning up after Paolo for years, 443 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: paying off various debts and otherwise trying to keep him 444 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: out of trouble. To make this whole thing more complicated, 445 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: Metis later changed her story, saying that she had gone 446 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: to La Case, not the other way around, but maintaining 447 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: that the money was a bribe for her to bear 448 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: false witness against Paolo, and not hush money to keep 449 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: her quiet. In February of nineteen fifty nine, The New 450 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: York Times characterized all of this as involving quote two 451 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: distinct plots and virtually unlimited hypotheses on their origins and development. 452 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: And there were still more twists and turns. Among other things, 453 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 1: there was a bartender named Francois Ghee who came forward 454 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: and claimed that Laqueur had tried to pay him to 455 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: kill Rayel in a car crash. For a time, Dominica 456 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: and Liqueur fled to Morocco, but then they went back 457 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: to Paris, and they had a big public press conference 458 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: at the Ritz Hotel in which they tried to place 459 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: all the blame for everything on to Polo. Eventually, Jean Laquaz, 460 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: his lawyer, and his secretary were all charged with suborning 461 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: a witness, but in June of nineteen sixty all of 462 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:33,479 Speaker 1: those charges were dropped for lack of evidence. Eventually, Paolo 463 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: became a journalist and a photographer and he moved to 464 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: the United States. Yeah after that, he seems to have 465 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: not had any more drama with his family. Fancy that 466 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: when you get away from them. Uh Lqueur spent about 467 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: six months in prison during all of this, and it 468 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: seems like Dominica ended her involvement with him after he 469 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: was released. She and her brother, Jean la Kaz never 470 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: faced trial, and there is some speculation or according to 471 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: some of the sources that I used absolute certainty, that 472 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 1: this is because she worked out a deal with Andre Mauroux, 473 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,479 Speaker 1: the French Minister of Culture. Under the terms of this 474 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: alleged deal, which was secret if it really happened, she 475 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: would sell one hundred and forty six paintings to the 476 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: Nation of France for a fraction of what they were 477 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: actually worth. There was definitely a sale which happened in 478 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:37,239 Speaker 1: two batches, forty seven paintings in nineteen fifty nine and 479 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: ninety nine paintings in nineteen sixty three. They included works 480 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: by Sezen, Renoir, Picasso, Matisse, Moggliani, de Reent, Soutine, Rousseau, 481 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: Lawrenceint and Utrio, among others. The French government planned to 482 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: place these works at the muse de Laurenterie, which at 483 00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: the time was overseen by the Louvers publicly. Dominica maintained 484 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: that this was what her late husband, Paul Guilloume, had 485 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 1: always wanted. He had always wanted to use his collection 486 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: of artwork to create a French museum of modern art 487 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: which would be open to the public. The Musee de 488 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: Laurenerie underwent an extensive renovation to house all of these 489 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: works from nineteen sixty to nineteen sixty five. They basically 490 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 1: tore out the whole interior and made a two floor 491 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: gallery structure on the inside. A temporary display of this 492 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: collection was inaugurated on January thirty first, nineteen sixty six. 493 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: Dominica Guillome kept possession of most of the paintings until 494 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: her death on June thirtieth nineteen seventy seven, at the 495 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 1: age of seventy nine. A year later, another extensive renovation 496 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 1: started at the Muset Delringerie, this time to both create 497 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: a permanent home for this collection, known at Dominica's request 498 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: as the Jean Valtaire and Paul Guilt Collection, and to 499 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: address significant structural issues that have been discovered with the building. Yeah, 500 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: so we know for absolutely sure she sold this work 501 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: to the nation of France. What I am less comfortable 502 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: saying with absolute certainty is that it was part of 503 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: a deal she worked to stay at a prison. It's 504 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: possible that there is clearer documentation of that in France somewhere, 505 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 1: but I can't really authoritatively say. Dominica yam Walter framed 506 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: herself as the curator and the protector of Paul Giulm's 507 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: art collection after his death, but in reality she sold 508 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: about two hundred pieces from it after he had died. 509 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: She also added some others. The pieces that she'd sold 510 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: included his entire collection of African art and the paintings 511 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 1: by d. Kurico that had been a big part of 512 00:33:55,400 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 1: his establishing himself in the art world. So these paintings 513 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: all exist but they are no longer part of one 514 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 1: unified collection as they had been when he died. Who 515 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: it's a lot of drama, so much drama. Do you 516 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,360 Speaker 1: have less dramatic listener mail? I do I have listener 517 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: mail from Rachel. Rachel wrote, Hi, Holly and Tracy, longtime listener, 518 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 1: A third time writer. I was recently in Louisville, Kentucky, 519 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 1: which had me thinking about you all. On my way 520 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 1: into town to spend three days doing the Bourbon Trail, 521 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,320 Speaker 1: I passed the Brown Hotel. Plastered on a door facing 522 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: the street was a colorful poster announcing that this was 523 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,720 Speaker 1: where the hot brown sandwich originated. Photo one. I wouldn't 524 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: have known what that was or why it was being 525 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: touted had it not been for the episode on three 526 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:51,240 Speaker 1: eponymous sandwiches. Went out to dinner one evening while in Louisville, 527 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,839 Speaker 1: at north of Bourbon, I took a photo of the 528 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 1: different versions of old fashions that can be ordered. I 529 00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: sent that to my son, who's always perfecting what he 530 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: makes at home. Then I thought of Holly and how 531 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 1: she always seems to be working on some drink, and 532 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: thought she too would be interested. Finally, after returning home. 533 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 1: I was listening to the Missouri Leviathan episode and perked 534 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,320 Speaker 1: up at the mention of a working saloon in Albert 535 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 1: Cox Museum. While the Fraser Museum in Louisville doesn't have 536 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: a working saloon, just an exhibit of one, it is 537 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: the only museum that I've been to where you can 538 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: buy either a bourbon tasting class or an old fashioned 539 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,800 Speaker 1: mixing class, and that then includes entry into the museum. 540 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: You can also just buy museum entry without bourbon, should 541 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,720 Speaker 1: you like. That's about as close to a working saloon 542 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 1: as I've seen in any museum I've been to. While 543 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: the Fraser has other exhibits about Louisville and Kentucky, there 544 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: is a lot of bourbon going on there. It is 545 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: also at the start of the bourbon trail in town. 546 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 1: Thanks for all you do and keeping me company at 547 00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: the gym. And in Atlanta traffic, Rachel Man, Atlanta traffic. 548 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,840 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, Man, I don't miss the Atlanta traffic, 549 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: but I got caught in some Boston traffic. It's this 550 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 1: very similar lot of similarities. So yes, there are some 551 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 1: photos attached to this email that include the entry to 552 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: the hotel that has where the Hot Brown was born 553 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: as a poster, and then the menu of lots of 554 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: different old fashions and getting the last one open. Oh yeah, 555 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 1: We've got a museum that has like big bourbon barrels 556 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 1: part on the outside of it. While I have been 557 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,920 Speaker 1: to a number of museums that have like restaurants that 558 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 1: serve alcohol on the inside, I don't think I would 559 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 1: say I've been into one that has like a saloon 560 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,720 Speaker 1: or a speakeasy on the inside of it. That sounds 561 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 1: pretty cool. I feel like there's another museum I've been 562 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 1: to with a speakeasy and I don't remember which one 563 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 1: it was, and I feel bad. Yeah, I probably out. 564 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: I have so many questions about the old fashion. Oh yeah, 565 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,400 Speaker 1: there are lots of different ways to make an old fashioned, actually, 566 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 1: and different people like different versions, and there are depending 567 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: on what I am in the mood for. Sometimes, when 568 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,719 Speaker 1: I'm somewhere that has like a particular, like their particular 569 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,360 Speaker 1: variety of old fashioned on the menu, sometimes that's what 570 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 1: I will get. But sometimes I'm not in the mood 571 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: for an old fashion. It depends. Yeah, do you ever 572 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 1: drink Wisconsin style? Well? What is that? Well, there are 573 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:38,720 Speaker 1: a few Wisconsin style old fashions are completely different. Don't 574 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 1: like and it's kind of their unofficial drink, but they're like, 575 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:47,840 Speaker 1: they involve brandy, they involve big chunks of oranges. They 576 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 1: have Marisquino cherries usually, or they'll use marishino, which is 577 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 1: I differentiate Marishino is the bright red, very candied ones Marasquino, 578 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 1: which is how you would say it in Italy as 579 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 1: the more kind of fancy pants unicorn true cocktail ones 580 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,239 Speaker 1: that are usually like a luxardo, like a darker that 581 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: kind of thing. But they and you can top it 582 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 1: with the soda of your choice. It's a whole different 583 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: bag doing this. This is a very different thing. Yeah, 584 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: I've never experienced this. Now they're pretty fun. I mean, listen, 585 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: Wisconsin does know how to drink. But I'm also just 586 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: curious because some people like to use a syrup in 587 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 1: their old fashion. Some people prefer the old school sugar 588 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:36,800 Speaker 1: cube one obviously gives you a more consistent flavor throughout, 589 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 1: or is the sugar cube version even if it's well muddled, 590 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: you get a sweeter finish. It's all different, So I'm 591 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:49,760 Speaker 1: curious what they taught at her at her little you know, experience. Holly, 592 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,440 Speaker 1: how do you know so much about cocktails? Ah? Well, 593 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: I did a lot of bartending classes. But I also 594 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:04,919 Speaker 1: very excited. My other podcast, Criminalia, has our cocktail book 595 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: coming out in just a couple months that's so cool, 596 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,799 Speaker 1: which is called Killer Cocktails. So for that show, in 597 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: case anyone doesn't know, it's historical true crime, and every 598 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,319 Speaker 1: episode ends with the cocktail that we've come up with 599 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 1: that goes with the theme or some detail about the show, 600 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: about the topic at hand. And so we had been 601 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: getting a lot of requests from people who are like, 602 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,360 Speaker 1: where can I get these written down? And so now 603 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,680 Speaker 1: you can get many of them written down, not all 604 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 1: of them. About half of the entries in the book 605 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 1: are abridged versions of stories we've told on the show 606 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 1: with their corresponding cocktails and a mocktail for everyone. And 607 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,280 Speaker 1: then the other half is all new content with new 608 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,840 Speaker 1: crime stories and new and new recipe cocktails and mocktails, 609 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,359 Speaker 1: which is so cool, very fun. So that is out 610 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 1: on October fifteenth. It's called Killer Cocktails. You can get 611 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,400 Speaker 1: it anywhere books are sold. It also has silly illustrations. 612 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,360 Speaker 1: I have been sort of watching from Afar as the 613 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:07,560 Speaker 1: over the time that you've been working on this book, 614 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 1: and it sounds very cool and I'm very excited to 615 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,759 Speaker 1: read it. Thank you. It's it feels like it's been 616 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,840 Speaker 1: one hundred years that we've been working on it, and 617 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,359 Speaker 1: it's been very hard to be cagy with people when 618 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,839 Speaker 1: they ask me like on social media, are you ever 619 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,640 Speaker 1: gonna put up a website? And I'm like, stay, dude, hey, 620 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,719 Speaker 1: the whole time, I know, like there's a book, I 621 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:29,960 Speaker 1: just can't announce it yeeah. So now it's nice to 622 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,239 Speaker 1: be able to be like it's going you can buy it. 623 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 1: I did not pick this listener mail to provide. I waited. 624 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,800 Speaker 1: As I was reading it, I was like, huh, Holly 625 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 1: has a cocktail book coming out. I do? I do. 626 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:46,800 Speaker 1: And I should also mention that my co host on 627 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,320 Speaker 1: the show, Maria Tremarky, wrote it with me, so I 628 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 1: don't want to leave her out of all of the 629 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,040 Speaker 1: stuff because she was integirl and you know, just as 630 00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,040 Speaker 1: in it as I was. But yeah, it's been an 631 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 1: exciting ride too, and also daunting to come up with 632 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,200 Speaker 1: what feels like one million cocktail recipes. Really I think 633 00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 1: it's like eighty one because some entries have more than 634 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,160 Speaker 1: one cocktail, Like, right, there's one that has a flight 635 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,319 Speaker 1: of shots. Fun, but like the shots are not like 636 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 1: pour two ounces of whiskey ports. They're like little mini 637 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,960 Speaker 1: cocktails and then lie on the floor. Yeah, because our 638 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: rule of thumb on the show in general in life 639 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,399 Speaker 1: is like one people should drink whatever and however they 640 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 1: want two, Like, people don't need to just stick to 641 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,880 Speaker 1: like a spirit and a mixer when making their own cocktails. 642 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 1: You can add a couple more things and just kind 643 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:44,560 Speaker 1: of like get a more elevated or fun experience. Yeah, 644 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,279 Speaker 1: but also not nothing too fussy, easy enough. You don't 645 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,799 Speaker 1: have to have a lot of skills or stuff. So yeah, 646 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,000 Speaker 1: that's if it sounds like a fun way to experience 647 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,799 Speaker 1: historical true crime to you, you can go pick it up. 648 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,879 Speaker 1: I hope you do. Yeah, all right, if you want 649 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,200 Speaker 1: to send us a note, were at History Podcasts at 650 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:08,520 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio dot com and you can subscribe to the podcast 651 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,840 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app and wherever else you'd like to 652 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:18,800 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Stuff you Missed in History Class is 653 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 654 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,640 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to 655 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:27,560 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.