WEBVTT - Chariots of the Gods 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:05.400 My World. Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:13.920 how Stuff Works dot com. Hey you, welcome to Stuff 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:16.120 to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:18.599 I'm Joe McCormick. And today we're gonna be starting off 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:23.040 by talking about theme parks. Just before we started recording, 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:26.040 Robert and I were talking about possible alternative theme parks 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:28.479 that just never got to be. I was thinking, you know, 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:32.680 we've got Disneyland and Disney World that we know some 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:35.040 people here in the office that are really into disney World. 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:37.720 We go all the time. But it's based on all 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:41.239 these classic animated characters, right, And I was thinking, there 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:44.519 should be an alternative theme park that's based on the 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:48.000 classic animated characters, not of Disney, but of Don Bluth. Okay, 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:49.920 so this would be like the Secretive Nim Yeah. So 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:52.200 you've got like a Secret of Nim ride where you 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:54.520 you like ride this cinder block to the lee of 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:58.360 the stone. And then you've got you've got like characters 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:00.480 walking around in the streets, of course, and costumes of 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:04.640 Rocketdoodle comes up to you. There's an old Dogs Go 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:06.640 to Heaven, you know, you get to be a dog 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:09.080 and go to dog Hell. Ride that. Yeah, that was 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:12.280 a disturbing portion of that movie. I remember. Yeah. But 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:14.959 then also there's gotta be a Dragon's Layer ride because 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:16.640 Don Blues worked on that. That's right. This is the 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:20.280 classic animation style video games. Yeah, where you die no 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:22.280 matter what you do all the time. Oh yeah, we 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:24.759 could have one for a ranking and bass rock box. 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:29.200 You get into all those old cool Disney alternative animated 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:33.840 classics like the Hobbit, the Lord of the Rings, Goblin singalongs. Yeah, 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:37.280 I'm all where there's a whip, there's a way, I'm 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:40.280 all for it. You have one hal that's just for 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:45.360 singing along with that Leonard Nimoy song about the Hobbit. Yeah, 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:47.320 I gotta work that in somehow though that that's not 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:49.640 actually in the movie, But the movie itself is full 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:53.680 of full of all sorts of wonderful tunes. Um. It's 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:58.400 interesting because we have all these various ridiculous and real 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:01.440 theme parks and then we have these fictional ones. So 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:04.280 we we have made up parks like Jurassic Park, we 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:06.760 have West World, we have Itchy and Scratchy Land. But 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:10.640 on the other hand, we do have Dollywood, the Dolly 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:13.440 Parton themed theme park, I don't think I've ever been 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:16.400 to Dollywood, but you gotta wonder what's there? Is it 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:19.640 just the same stuff, Like, it's just roller coasters and 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:23.359 carnival games and stuff, except it's Dolly Pardon themed. What's 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:25.600 all about the theme, right, It's all about the fluff. 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:28.320 Like I remember, I never went to Dollywood, but I 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:32.720 went to Opery Land in Nashville, Tennessee, back when that 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:35.840 was a theme park, a country music sort of country 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:39.040 themed theme park, and and that was fun. It wasn't 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.840 necessary that I was into the uh, into the flavoring 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:45.880 that was provided. But still, the basic rides, you do 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:48.400 need some reason to get on there. You need some 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:50.880 sort of character associated with it, to tell a story 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.799 with the ride. Dude, that Dollywood Joe Lene roller coaster 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:57.680 was a scream. So there are a lot of worthy 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:01.440 theme park destinations out there. But here's one that I 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.840 think most of us may not have heard of. I 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:07.280 had not heard of this one until we started researching 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:09.360 this episode. I had not heard of this until you 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:11.800 sent it to me. It's nestled in the Swiss Alps, 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:16.600 and it's called young Frau Park. Okay, does that mean 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:20.040 young woman? I believe so it's name for um, it's 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:23.120 name for a particular alpine peak in the immediate area. 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:27.359 It originally opened as Mystery Park, though it offers fun 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:31.040 and entertainment for the entire family, including Misty Land for 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:36.680 the children, a huge indoor outdoor children's paradise, segue rides, trampolines, 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:41.120 laser shows, a petting zoo, and of course multiple exhibits 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:44.560 in live shows addressing the mysteries of ancient history and 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:49.200 the possible answers to be found in ancient astronaut hypothesis. 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:52.480 What yes, yeah, this is I need to drive this home. 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:55.120 This is not some silly skit that Joe and I 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:58.280 have prepared for everybody. This is a real theme park 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:02.200 in Interlock and Swiss of Land, centered around the ideas 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:06.120 and writings of Eric van Donikin, author of the nineteen 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.800 book Chariots of the Gods. I like how the original 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:12.440 book title ends in a question mark. Yes, so, I 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:14.840 really think we should make a point when we're talking 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:17.960 about his book. We should we should pronounce it chariots 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.480 of the Gods of the Gods like they might be 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:26.279 chariots of somebody else's. I also love how it takes 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:31.120 what is otherwise a tremendously awesome title and kind of 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:33.520 screws it up by making a question. You know, you've 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:36.880 got that standard clickbait format these days, where like the 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:40.280 actual body text of an article might be fairly reasonable, 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:43.920 but the headline makes some outlandish claim not justified by 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:46.359 the article itself. This is sort of the opposite. This 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:48.920 is like the title is actually a little bit more 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:51.640 careful than the book. Yes, and we will definitely get 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:55.000 into that as we proceed. But this particular park again, 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:58.640 it opened as Mystery Park and two thousand three at 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:02.240 a reported cost of eighty six million Swiss francs or 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:05.920 sixty two million dollars American uh. But then it closed 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:08.560 in two thousand six. Then it opened reopened again in 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:12.600 two thousand nine as Young Frau Park. It's an exhibits 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:15.600 still focus on things like the Nazca lines, the construction 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:19.520 of the Pyramids, and other noted uh quote unquote examples 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:24.640 of ancient astronauts, speculation or a A s plus. Donikan 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:28.440 himself still gives lectures there and insists that quote everything 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:32.400 ends in a question mark, so as if it's all 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:36.359 just a consideration of these ideas rather than um, you know, 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:39.440 propaganda about it. Well, I must say that makes me 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:41.440 feel a little bit better about it, because I kind 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:43.760 of want to go. I don't put any stock whatsoever 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:47.000 in the ancient aliens hypothesis, but this sounds like a 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:49.360 good time. You've got a petting zoo, and you've got 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:52.279 a guy given lectures about how aliens probably talk to 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:54.880 our ancestors. Yeah, there's a sun sphere they have like 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:58.000 a ziggurat and a pyramid. You can, you can. I'll 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:01.000 try to make sure that we link to the homepage 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:03.440 for the park so that you can check it out, 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:06.320 because it does look fun. It looks you can children 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:09.760 can have their birthday parties there. It looks like an 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:12.280 interesting destination, and we would love to hear from anyone 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:15.719 who has ever gone there themselves. So I've been familiar 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.040 with Van Donkin for a long time. I remember seeing 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:21.680 him mentioned on old reruns of In Search of hosted 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:24.880 by Leonard nimoy A and a yeah. But but I 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.560 had no idea that this had been incorporated into a 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:30.200 theme park. This is the kind of thing you come 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:33.200 to expect from religious groups in the United States, like 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:36.200 the Holy Lands Theme Park. I believe it is in Florida. 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:38.800 Oh yeah, if you're not aware of this phenomenon. In 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:42.960 the United States, there are multiple, uh, not just Bible themed, 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:46.839 but specifically Young Earth creationist theme parks in the United 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:50.440 States that have like models and exhibits. It's sort of 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:53.960 like a cross between an amusement park and a museum 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:56.680 attempting to promote the idea, for example, that humans and 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:59.080 dinosaurs lived side by side and that the Earth is 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:01.760 six thousand years so old. Yeah, and you know, it 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:03.800 makes sense that we would have theme parks about this 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:05.880 because in the United States, two things that people take 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:09.880 very seriously our religion and their major entertainment brands. So 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:12.240 of course there's a Disney Park. Of course there's like 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:17.560 Universal Studios. But I just really wasn't expecting, uh, there 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:21.080 to be a theme park based around the concept of 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:23.440 ancient aliens. It really gives me hope that my son 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:26.480 can one day celebrate his tenth birthday party at a 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:31.120 Phantom Time hypothesis theme park. I want to Lizard People 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:33.720 theme park that would be good, yeah, with the costumes 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:37.160 it basically rights itself, or a good Flat Earth theme 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:39.760 park that'll do it. I wonder if that means the 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:42.720 roller coasters will be very boring though there's no looks. 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:47.560 It's just flat circle flat roller coasters. Yeah. So we've 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:50.600 had listeners in the past ask us to talk about 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:54.160 ancient aliens related topics. I think it's come up in 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:57.040 passing on the podcast quite a few times. Actually, we 0:07:57.200 --> 0:07:59.280 just kind of mentioned it here and there as one 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:01.600 of those things that you know, it would be interesting 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:04.000 if there were some actual evidence for it, but there 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:06.120 doesn't seem to be any good evidence. It's all just 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:09.640 kind of like based on massive over interpretation of little 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:13.119 tidbits of interesting mythology and imagery from the ancient world, 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:17.480 and sometimes on outright fraud and and stuff like that. Yeah, 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:19.280 and we'll get into all that today. I do want 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:21.160 to before we get into it, I do want to 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:24.280 stress that we are going to approach this topic, like 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:27.120 all the topics we can approach, with a skeptical mind, 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:31.000 but an open mind. Okay, yeah, an open minded mind exactly. Yes. 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:34.800 And while we're gonna be talking about about von Donnikin 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:38.280 himself and his book at the top of this episode, 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:41.880 we are going to get into say Carl Sagan's thoughts 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:46.200 on the possibility of ancient aliens as we progress, and 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:49.400 of course through all of it, it is an exciting idea. 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:52.200 I mean, it factors into so many different works of 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:56.640 fiction that that we love. It's uh, it's just comes 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:58.800 down to the fact that, like you said, the evidence 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.920 is never there. Yeah, exactly. Now. I want to be 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:06.600 clear that I find the idea of ancient aliens visiting 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:09.720 Earth long ago in the past as fun and interesting 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:12.720 as anybody else would. It's something that I would love 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:14.839 to believe if there were good evidence for the I mean, 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:18.480 that's such a cool idea. Um, And so it's and 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:21.959 it's also not something that I would say is something 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:24.559 we should just dismiss out of hand. Like some people 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:27.240 make the argument that, Okay, if somebody shows up and says, 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:30.240 I've got a new propellantless drive that'll get us through 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:33.559 space without propellant, some people say, you know, if you're 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:36.080 violating the laws of physics, I don't even need to 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:38.360 listen to you to begin with. I don't feel like 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:40.920 that about ancient aliens. I'd say, Okay, this is something 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:43.680 that we don't know whether or not aliens exist. Maybe 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:46.640 they do. We don't know if they do exist, whether 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:49.520 they visited Earth in the past. Maybe they have. There's 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:51.880 no reason to rule it out out of hand. So 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:54.280 it's at least worth looking at the evidence if somebody 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:57.920 thinks they have some exactly, So let's return to Chariots 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:01.840 of the Gods uh the Night sixty eight book by 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:05.319 Eric von Donakin, And the basic idea here is again 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:08.880 that ancient that ancient astronauts visited Earth and serve as 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.960 the sort of god figures of our mythologies and religions, 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:14.600 and they wowed us with their technology and taught us 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:18.440 to do things like make bread and build pyramids, the 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:22.040 two primary activities of human civilization. Well they're they're also 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:25.200 we'll get into it, especially the pyramid thing more. But 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:27.360 these are the sort of things that it's easy to 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:30.080 look at and say, how did people ever figure this out? 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:32.960 I thought about that with bread before you know, I'm like, 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:36.040 this is amazing. It's so tasty, and I if you, 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:38.640 if you you show me where it came from, and 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:41.840 I would. I can't imagine ancient people putting that together. 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:44.160 But of course they did put it together. Do you 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:47.160 think aliens were the ones that taught us to drink 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:50.680 the milk that comes out of goats and cows. Oh 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:53.760 well that is that isn't another interesting topic of topic. 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:56.120 I believe Julie and I did an episode that got 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:57.559 into some of that in the past. Because there are 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:01.600 different theories regarding how we made this leap. One of 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:05.240 them one of the theories is that it actually involved 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:09.000 a drinking contest, like essentially dares and double dares among 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:12.320 ancient people. I bet you can't down that glass of 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:15.199 of of sheep's milk. Let's see what happens. Okay, So 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:18.640 it would be like, drink this crocodile's urine, drink this 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:21.720 goat's milk, but then the goat milk was kind of tasty. Yeah, 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:23.640 I mean it actually would play into some of these 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:27.600 ancient astronaut ideas, like the aliens arrive and they're like, hey, 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:31.000 you uh monkey creature, Um, can you drink the milk 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:33.400 of that other one without becoming ill? Let's see what happens, 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:37.040 just doing experiments on us. Yeah. Uh. So we can't 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:40.960 rehash all of von Danikin's arguments from his book, but 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.240 I think just to give you a flavor of the 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:46.880 kinds of things he argues and and what it feels 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:50.600 like to participate with his arguments. We should just give 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:53.560 an example from several of his major lines of evidence, 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:56.319 and one of the major types of arguments he makes 0:11:56.480 --> 0:12:01.080 is about ancient projects that supposedly we're beyond our power 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:03.480 to produce at the time. Right, So this is you 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:05.720 know you mentioned how do we learn to bake bread? 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:09.120 How do we learn to build pyramids? Von Dannikin essentially 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:12.840 will look back and say, hey, we couldn't have done 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:15.319 that back then. Must have been aliens showing us how 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:18.080 to do it or assisting us with their technology. So 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:21.080 classic example of this you'll often hear is the pyramids 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:23.400 of ancient Egypt. Right, if you've got an ancient Aliens 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:26.240 person talking to you, they'll say, look, there's no way 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:29.319 the ancient Egyptians could have built the pyramids. These these 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:32.319 stones that the pyramids are made of or gigantic How 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:34.520 did they get them to the site? How did they 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:36.800 build them with such precision? You know that, how do 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:40.000 they move them so far? It's just impossible. They couldn't 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:42.160 have done it, right, Why did they build it like that? 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.000 Why were they looking up? Yeah? Vandanakin makes that argument too. 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:47.360 He says the pyramids they seem to be oriented with 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:50.600 some kind of relationship to the stars, and Egyptian astronomy 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:53.080 was not advanced enough for them to have had this 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:55.640 kind of like knowledge of the stars when they built them. 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:57.760 That seems to be wrong. But yeah, if you look 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.079 at pyramids like the Great Pyramid of Giza built in 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:03.440 the twenty century BC, it's true that we used to 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:07.320 consider it a great mystery how these amazing marvels like 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.800 the Pyramids were built in a time before modern metal working. 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.360 I mean, these people didn't have iron tools or anything. 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:16.280 They were probably working with like copper tools. Uh, this 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:19.600 is really before any kind of advanced wheels of any sort. 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:23.480 But as best I can tell, modern archaeologists and Egyptologists 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.280 do not believe that it was beyond the power of 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:29.280 the ancient Egyptians to create these marvels like the Pyramids. 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.160 We now know a lot about the construction of the pyramids. 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:35.920 So the pyramids were built through massive coordination of engineers 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:39.920 and skilled workers. Granite building materials were probably floated down 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:43.920 the Nile on rafts from quarry locations upstream. Uh. And 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:48.560 we've discovered, through for example, ancient illustrations, that giant stone 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:52.120 blocks were dragged into place using ropes and sledges. So 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:54.880 workers would have ropes and they pull a sledge with 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:57.600 a stone on it. And there was even a recent 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:01.400 discovery about how wetting the sand underneath the sledge could 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:04.120 reduce the friction between the sledge and the ground, helping 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:07.400 ease the transport of the blocks. And then there's other 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.240 evidence that indicates, for example, the height of the pyramids 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:13.760 was achieved with the use of wait for it, ramps. 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:17.800 But where they get the ramps? Joe, clearly aliens crazy? No, 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:20.040 I mean, yeah, how could they have figured out that 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:23.520 you could pile earth up to make a ramp? But yeah, 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.240 So this kind of argumentation, it seems to me to 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:29.760 be based on basically just a type of prejudice, prejudice 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:33.280 against the abilities of the ancient people. Ancient people might 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.560 have had less scientific knowledge and less technology than we do, 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:39.400 but they weren't stupid. In fact, they were really clever, 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:41.880 often more clever than we are, because they had to 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:45.640 accomplish their great works with so much less. Yeah, they 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:48.320 were not, as the saying goes, standing on the shoulders 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:50.400 of giants. No, they had to they had to be 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.800 giants themselves in order to do great things. So that's 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:56.080 one type of argument, but then you've got a couple others. 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:59.080 One is like looking at ancient art and saying, well, 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:02.480 that depicts a lilians and spaceships. So you could look 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:06.200 at ancient figurines from Japan and say that looks like 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:08.840 an alien in a space suit. Or you can look 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.920 at the Nasca Lines of Peru, where von Danikin says 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:15.560 their quote very reminiscent of aircraft parking bays on a 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:19.040 modern airport. I look at that, I don't know, I mean, 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:23.800 it looks to me like their giant works of art. Yeah, 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:25.960 this is one of those cases where you're taking several 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:29.800 logical leaps to get to a more grandiose explanation. Yeah. 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:31.840 And it's not to say that things like the Nasca 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:35.680 lions aren't themselves very interesting and mysterious, Like who did 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:38.080 the people who created them think they were making them for? 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:42.040 If they're too big for the average human to actually see, Uh, 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:44.360 they must have had the idea of like gods in 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:47.360 the sky or even maybe somehow people traveling in the 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:50.040 sky to look down and see them. So you know 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.040 that's not impossible. But there are these mysteries and and 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:55.520 and they're very interesting, but I don't think you need 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:58.560 to jump to this is a landing strip for spacecraft 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:02.600 or this is in you know, an aircraft parking bay. Likewise, 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.720 another way he looks at ancient art is the Mayan 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:09.280 temple of the inscriptions at pelen k Robert. Had you 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.400 ever seen this carving before? Um? If I had, I'd 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:14.920 forgotten about it. It's it's very cool because you see 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:19.640 this individual that's kind of in a recline position. Uh. 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:23.120 And you know, I'm not sure how how I would 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:27.320 have interpreted it had I not been looking at it, 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:30.280 uh as part of the research for this episode, like 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:33.200 knowing what people would read into it, Because knowing what 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:35.040 people would read into it, I look at it and 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:40.480 I'm I'm reminded of hr Geeger's concept for the pilot 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:44.320 that they encounter in Alien, that the giant, you know, 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:48.080 that the Titan character that is uh fossilized in this 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:53.640 uh this command chair within the crashed Alien spaceship the engineer. Yeah. Yeah, 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:57.720 it's sort of a similar reclining pose surrounded by I 0:16:57.720 --> 0:16:59.880 don't know what what you'd call it, kind of ornate 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.400 objects that look like all then maybe that could be 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:06.040 some form of technology. So this carving from this Mayan 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:10.080 temple is from the sarcophagus of the Mayan lord Pakal 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.520 the Great, who lived in the seventh century CE. And 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:16.160 from what I've read, the stuff in the carving are 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:20.240 common Mayan religious symbols. They're the kinds of things you 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:23.920 see on Mayan carvings that indicate things about the Mayan 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:28.080 mythology and cosmology. But of course von Dannikin and the 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:30.760 ancient Aliens people they say, well, it's got a guy 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:34.680 reclining and he's surrounded by all these objects and lines 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:38.080 and weird looking stuff, and so maybe what this is 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:42.359 is it's a person who is reclining in a spaceship 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:45.480 that's ready for takeoff, and they're surrounded by all these 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:49.280 technological objects. It's a fun read on a piece of art. 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:52.919 I love that idea, but but again it comes it 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:55.080 comes down to the question is this really the best 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:59.400 explanation for what we're looking at here? Yeah, good question. Again, 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:02.600 I think the answer is probably no. And then finally 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:06.280 another line of evidences, for example, ancient descriptions of things 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:09.640 in literature and religion. So we I think we've talked 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:11.720 on the podcast before about the first chapter of the 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:14.199 Book of Ezekiel in the Hebrew Bible. Robert, I have 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:16.280 we done this one before? I know it came up 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:19.640 when Christian and I talked about John d and sort 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:23.280 of the various occult ideas about angels, because we talked 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:27.879 about how how rad the angels are in the Old Testament, 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:32.159 you know, with interlocking wheels and uh a sense of 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:35.600 like multiple eyes and strange fires. Yeah. So just to 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:39.080 give a brief reading, the author, supposedly, the prophet Ezekiel 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:41.399 rights that he had a vision one day the heavens 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:45.240 were opened. Quote. Then I looked, and behold, a whirlwind 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.080 was coming out of the north, a great cloud with 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:52.439 raging fire engulfing itself, and brightness was all around it 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:55.720 and radiating out of its midst, like the color of amber. 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:58.760 Out of the midst of the fire. Also from within 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:01.960 it came the likeness of four living creatures. And this 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:04.560 was their appearance. They had the likeness of a man. 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:08.600 Each one had four faces, and each one had four wings. 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:11.600 Their legs were straight, and the soles of their feet 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:14.679 were like the soles of calves feet. They sparkled like 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:18.199 the color of burnished bronze. Now, as I looked at 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:20.879 the living creatures, behold, a wheel was on the earth 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:24.840 beside each living creature, with its four faces. The appearance 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:27.760 of the wheels and their workings was like the color 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:31.679 of barrel, and all four had the same likeness. The 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:34.920 appearance of their workings was as it were, a wheel 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:37.480 in the middle of a wheel. When they moved, they 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:40.480 went toward any one of the four directions. They did 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:43.760 not turn aside when they went. As for their rims, 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:47.240 they were so high, they were awesome, and their rims 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:50.800 were full of eyes all around the four of them. 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:54.840 That is awesome imagery. You can't deny the amazing power 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:58.639 of that description. Yeah, it does it. It sounds and 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:03.280 feels like an counter with something beyond the human experience 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:06.479 and God. And certainly if you want to say it's 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:09.600 an alien, that would make sense to But are you 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:12.639 convinced that number one, the author really saw this and 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:15.800 this isn't merely a composed narrative serving a religious purpose. 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:19.359 Number two, if the author did actually see this, that 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:23.680 it wasn't a hallucination, right one, either caused by quote 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:26.840 unquote natural causes, you know, some sort of religious trance 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:29.720 or the consumption of some sort of psychedelic substance, either 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:33.040 one or or just a dream or dream too, or 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:36.040 pure daydreaming, pure imagination. We've talked about that before too. 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:39.320 We often want to limit just the pure imagination of 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:41.879 ancient people's and say, oh, well, they actually saw something, 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:46.159 or clearly they were eating strange mushrooms. But really you 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:49.520 can we I think everyone around us can attest to this. 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:53.440 You can create amazing things without bumping your head or 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:57.840 or or eating something odd. I totally agree. I always 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:00.880 want to emphasize that point. And then only are you convinced. 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:03.960 Even if this was something physical the author actually saw, 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:07.560 was it aliens? Maybe it's something else being described in 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:11.320 a kind of vague and imaginative way. So von Danikin 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:15.200 is convinced, He says, quote the description is astonishingly good. 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:17.639 Ezekiel says that each wheel was in the middle of 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:21.119 another one, an optical allusion to our present way of thinking. 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:23.520 What he saw was one of those special vehicles that 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:27.920 Americans use in the desert and swampy terrain. Ezekiel observed 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:31.040 that the wheels rose from the ground simultaneously with the 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:34.600