Speaker 1: M m M. You're listening to Playback, a variety I
Speaker 1: Heart Media podcast. I'm your host of Variety Awards editor
Speaker 1: Chris Tapley. I just want to listen to this beat
Speaker 1: for a second. Thanks to Stewart Park for the new jams,
Speaker 1: new Playback, new jams. Yes, we're super excited to be
Speaker 1: a part of the I Heart Media family. So welcome
Speaker 1: to all new listeners. And this is Playback, a film
Speaker 1: focused weekly podcast. We talked to movie stars, we talked directors,
Speaker 1: basically exclusive conversations with the talents behind many of today's
Speaker 1: hottest movies. That's what we do here. And the ninetieth
Speaker 1: Annual Academy Awards are right around the corner on Sunday,
Speaker 1: So first order of business. We've got a lot of
Speaker 1: good movies, a lot of good performances, but a weird
Speaker 1: year overall. I thought it never quite found itself, so
Speaker 1: kind of going into the Oscars here, we have a
Speaker 1: lot of question marks and a number of key races,
Speaker 1: so it should be a pretty exciting night. We've talked
Speaker 1: to a number of this year's nominees here on the
Speaker 1: show over the last twelve months, so today we thought
Speaker 1: we'd pull together a few of those conversations and anecdotes
Speaker 1: make for a little trip through two thousand seventeen. We've
Speaker 1: got chats with actors like Gary Oldman and Searsha Ronan,
Speaker 1: and filmmakers like Christopher Nolan and de Reese, just to
Speaker 1: name a few. So let's dive in the year started,
Speaker 1: as it always does, at the Sundance Film Festival. It
Speaker 1: was there that Universal Pictures decided to drop Jordan's Peel's
Speaker 1: get Out as a surprise screening. It was a very
Speaker 1: bold move, but it immediately set this genre film up
Speaker 1: as more than a genre film. I mean, it became
Speaker 1: a critically acclaimed movie that clearly could be a prestige picture.
Speaker 1: And here we are a year later, the Proofs in
Speaker 1: the Pudding. The movie is competing for Best Picture, Best Director,
Speaker 1: Best Actor, and Best Original Screenplay. It's quite the whirlwind.
Speaker 1: And I spoke to Jordan just ahead of at least
Speaker 1: way back on February twenty three, just over a year ago.
Speaker 1: One of the things we talked about was the genre
Speaker 1: bending quality of the film. It's a horror film, but
Speaker 1: it's also a social satire with comedy elements, and it
Speaker 1: was classified as a comedy of the Golden Globes, which
Speaker 1: caused quite a stir. But way before all that happened,
Speaker 1: Jordan and I talked about that nebulous quality of the film.
Speaker 1: So here's Jordan one that it felt like the comedy
Speaker 1: education that I got, I've gotten the last you know,
Speaker 1: decade or so worked perfectly in this film. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: I feel that both horror and laughter are ways we
Speaker 1: we face our demons way ways that we deal with
Speaker 1: our fears of death in a way, Um, it's about tension, tension, tension,
Speaker 1: and then release with a certain pinpoint precision. And you know,
Speaker 1: in in in a way the tension, tension, tension and
Speaker 1: release is kind of a a metaphor for life and
Speaker 1: death in a way. You know, we spend our whole
Speaker 1: lives fearing the ultimate absurdity, which is that this is
Speaker 1: a temporary That's right, that's right, that's true. Uh. I
Speaker 1: went to the You had the kind of premiere in
Speaker 1: l A the l A live screening your Head that
Speaker 1: last week, and you said beforehand that for you, growing
Speaker 1: up race was like a nightmare, That's how you put it,
Speaker 1: and you wanted to put this nightmare on the screen.
Speaker 1: What it got me thinking was what was the chicken
Speaker 1: and the egg? Like, did you want to make a
Speaker 1: movie with those themes in mind? And then you kind
Speaker 1: of gravitated into a horror film? Or did you want
Speaker 1: to make a horror film? And these are the things
Speaker 1: that came up that you wanted to explore within that
Speaker 1: I wanted to make a horror film. Yeah, I just
Speaker 1: you know, I've I've I've I've had the this dream
Speaker 1: of being a director since I was since I was younger,
Speaker 1: being specifically a horror director, and um, you know, part
Speaker 1: of the process of figuring out what I could bring
Speaker 1: to the genre that would be of any worth or
Speaker 1: anything I would be proud of. Um, you know, I
Speaker 1: I realized that I've sort of done enough thinking about race,
Speaker 1: enough work in the comedy space about you know, walking
Speaker 1: that line how to deal with race and art, that
Speaker 1: I was kind of uniquely equipped to deal with it.
Speaker 1: Um you know, I think, you know, yeah, not only
Speaker 1: is race a nightmare for me, you know, I think
Speaker 1: that the greater point is that, um, you know, race,
Speaker 1: this country is is a and in the world is
Speaker 1: this human demon. It is a monster that we is
Speaker 1: in our d n A. And so I just felt
Speaker 1: like race was I realized it's if anyone was going
Speaker 1: to make a modern move horror movie about race, it
Speaker 1: should be me. Did you feel yourself like, were your
Speaker 1: self governing it all, like, oh that's too far, I
Speaker 1: need to pull back on that. Or did you just
Speaker 1: kind of let yourself go as far as you felt
Speaker 1: like you wanted to go. It's it's yeah, it's all
Speaker 1: self governing. Really, you know, it's you ask yourself, you
Speaker 1: know a lot of questions, but ultimately, um, you know,
Speaker 1: you sort of realize you can't write a movie with
Speaker 1: the taking into too far into consideration, how how the
Speaker 1: people will react to it, whether or not you can
Speaker 1: sell this movie. Um, I really wrote this movie for myself. UM,
Speaker 1: to say, look, this is gonna be a fun project
Speaker 1: to write. It is. Um if I was right a movie,
Speaker 1: my favorite movie that doesn't exist yet? What is that movie?
Speaker 1: And I just followed that um fun Um. You know
Speaker 1: it's kind of you know, it's how I imagine um
Speaker 1: Tarantino works. It was one of the great Like you know,
Speaker 1: you can just tell he's not making a movie for
Speaker 1: anyone else. He's making the movie he wishes. Um. Jordan
Speaker 1: joined an elite group of filmmakers with his nominations as producer,
Speaker 1: writer and director of get Out. By the Way, only
Speaker 1: Warren Beatty and James L. Brooks have managed that particular
Speaker 1: hat trick on their debut film, so that's pretty exclusive company.
Speaker 1: Hats off to Jordan's. Nearly a year later, we spoke
Speaker 1: to the film's breakout star Daniel Kaluya, just after he
Speaker 1: received his life changing Oscar nomination and when he was
Speaker 1: in the midst of promoting Black Panther. He stars as
Speaker 1: Wakabi in that film, by the Way, which has been
Speaker 1: crushing it at the box office. I love this guy.
Speaker 1: He's so genuine, you don't feel like you're getting canned answers.
Speaker 1: He's very thoughtful and conversational, and I don't know, he's
Speaker 1: just a good dude. He's going to be doing this
Speaker 1: for a long time. And what I was particularly interested
Speaker 1: in talking about with him was the quiet nature of
Speaker 1: his character, and get Out sort of calls on Daniel
Speaker 1: to be quite reserved in his performance. A lot going
Speaker 1: on behind the eyes, under the surface, and as it
Speaker 1: turns out, that's exactly the gear he prefers to work in.
Speaker 1: So here's Daniel. I mean itsunds in the sense that
Speaker 1: I mean, I learned so much on Sicario and Welcome
Speaker 1: with that group of actors where the audacity to do nothing,
Speaker 1: you know, the confidence and and and seeing him doing
Speaker 1: it on set and not understanding it, but then seeing
Speaker 1: it on screen and go, well, but a Toro is
Speaker 1: amazing in that film, Josh is amazing. He's amazing, and
Speaker 1: I kinda it's a and then you and I have
Speaker 1: often I kind of had to rethink how I saw storytelling,
Speaker 1: how I saw acting in a sense that like I
Speaker 1: don't want people to see him doing it, and I
Speaker 1: can kinda. So it's just kind of like if you're
Speaker 1: playing a real dude, he's a real dude, you mean,
Speaker 1: and it's like and he's going through this, and it's
Speaker 1: about like people may not it may not be the
Speaker 1: showy role, and you have to be okay with people
Speaker 1: not noticing that you're doing what you're doing. But did
Speaker 1: they notice the story? They are they feeling the beats
Speaker 1: of the story that that's the priority for me. So
Speaker 1: it was me engaging with kind of like just kind
Speaker 1: of death of like the acting ego in me, like
Speaker 1: just kind of go, let me just do what I
Speaker 1: feel feels right and and and feels real and and
Speaker 1: with the internal is kind of like I find that.
Speaker 1: I just find a dynamics really interesting and stuff that
Speaker 1: I think I' probably doing life, and loads of people
Speaker 1: do that in life. I find it interesting I watch,
Speaker 1: so I find it interesting when someone says a kind
Speaker 1: of like, especially in the professional environment, especially in this industry,
Speaker 1: people say a lot of lick stuff. Las weell absolutely
Speaker 1: see a lot of slick ship. It's encouraged. Let's say
Speaker 1: we say a lot of slick ship and then like
Speaker 1: around that's kind of like but no one can say
Speaker 1: it directly because I'm from a quite direct tone, so
Speaker 1: it's I'm having to learn that, and I can see
Speaker 1: people react to it, but they can't really react to it.
Speaker 1: So there's there's what's being said on paper, what's being
Speaker 1: said is nothing like, it doesn't mean anything, but underneath,
Speaker 1: both parties know that there's something happening, and their faces
Speaker 1: are given hints to something that's happening. So I just
Speaker 1: kind of was like, oh, I find that, really, I
Speaker 1: find that more interesting to see in cinema, So it's
Speaker 1: kind of like, let's try and do that like in
Speaker 1: But then I think I've with my intent. It's always
Speaker 1: been like I don't want to feel like I'm showing
Speaker 1: off what I can do. I don't. I don't want that.
Speaker 1: Like even when I was doing plays and there was
Speaker 1: like a sequence where I had to show rage, I'll
Speaker 1: be like, even in Black Mirror, like what I was
Speaker 1: doing that monologue, I'll be like, is it too much?
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want it. I don't want people
Speaker 1: to go because I probably find that quite over welming
Speaker 1: me is And that's just my personal taste. And so
Speaker 1: we've get out. It was just kind of have this
Speaker 1: in mind, but also as well conversations with Jordan and
Speaker 1: Allison and just going how do we ground this amazing
Speaker 1: genre story, you know, like and and I just I
Speaker 1: just kind of felt and that Jordan was like minded
Speaker 1: about like you have to believe this character and believe
Speaker 1: this relationship and believe that this is real, which grounds
Speaker 1: all the kind of supernatural or other worldly like genre
Speaker 1: elements to to the piece. If it's grounded, you know,
Speaker 1: and you're you're way more likely to believe a lot
Speaker 1: more stuff, the stuff that's real. But you don't even
Speaker 1: believe Jim. And it's like because of the gravity at
Speaker 1: the center of it Isn't It's rude Sunday. It was
Speaker 1: actually a powerhouse uh for Oscar contenders last year. In
Speaker 1: addition to Get Out, there was also Called Me By
Speaker 1: Your Name and mud Bound, as well as The Big Sick,
Speaker 1: which was written by and stars Kumon and Johnny one
Speaker 1: of my favorite shows, HBO's Silicon Valley. Kumale was nominated
Speaker 1: for Original Screenplay along with his wife, Emily V. Gordon.
Speaker 1: And this was about as personal an experience as you
Speaker 1: can get. I mean, The Big Sick tells the story
Speaker 1: of Emily's sudden coma when Kumaloe was courting her, and
Speaker 1: how the experience both strengthened and tested their families. And
Speaker 1: you know, when you're pouring your soul out like that
Speaker 1: and literally telling your story on screen, you have to
Speaker 1: feel somewhat exposed in a way I guess very few
Speaker 1: of us can identify with. So I wanted to talk
Speaker 1: to Kumale about that over the summer when the film
Speaker 1: finally released in theaters. So here's Kumale. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: as a stand up. At some point I started taking
Speaker 1: personal stories and personal experiences and talking about them on stage,
Speaker 1: so I had a little bit of experience being personal
Speaker 1: and sort of giving of myself in little ways. This
Speaker 1: is sort of the deal. I was thinking about this
Speaker 1: earlier today or last night when I couldn't sleep. You know,
Speaker 1: there is a little bit of you lose a lot
Speaker 1: of people see your vulnerability, right, but a little bit.
Speaker 1: I think that's sort of the deal with the devil.
Speaker 1: You have to make to do what I get to do, Like,
Speaker 1: what you get is you get to live your dreams
Speaker 1: and tell your stories and it's really exciting. But what
Speaker 1: the price of that a little bit is that you
Speaker 1: are giving a piece of yourself for everyone to analyze
Speaker 1: and judge. Um But I knew, like a few years
Speaker 1: after these the events of the movie had happened. I
Speaker 1: knew that I wanted to like do something with it,
Speaker 1: like either do a show about it or something, because
Speaker 1: it felt like this very specific emotional thing that had happened.
Speaker 1: And I knew that nobody else had this story, and
Speaker 1: that only Emily and I were the ones who would
Speaker 1: be able to tell this story, like kind of if
Speaker 1: we didn't tell the story, the story would just not
Speaker 1: get told. Nobody else has this so um and and
Speaker 1: I really think for me writing and I think the
Speaker 1: best writing is sort of you're trying to deal with
Speaker 1: your concerns and tackle stuff that's complicated and messy for you,
Speaker 1: And part of it's a little bit of like self
Speaker 1: therapy working on something like this. So I knew that
Speaker 1: this was a story I wanted to tell. Emily took
Speaker 1: a little bit more convincing. I knew this was a
Speaker 1: story I wanted to tell because thinking about it would
Speaker 1: like paralyze me. And I knew that I had a
Speaker 1: lot of like stuff floating around inside this black box
Speaker 1: that I hadn't opened. And I knew that in in
Speaker 1: order to be able to move on from this kind
Speaker 1: of crazy event and have to write about it and
Speaker 1: really get into it and and and sort of figure
Speaker 1: out how I felt about it, you know. And it's
Speaker 1: very easy to be like, well that was a tough
Speaker 1: time when you actually opened the box and think about
Speaker 1: like what did I do this day? And then this happened?
Speaker 1: And this happened is how that made me feel? Like
Speaker 1: going through all the events piece by piece is it's
Speaker 1: very difficult, but I think it's also allowed us to
Speaker 1: get a handle on this big, big part of our life,
Speaker 1: did you get swept up in any kind of emotion,
Speaker 1: like in the moment in a scene that would obviously
Speaker 1: remind you of this very emotional moment in your life.
Speaker 1: There are some scenes that I cried when I wrote them,
Speaker 1: I cried when I rewrote them, I cried when I
Speaker 1: hurt them, and and then shooting them was the same thing.
Speaker 1: I was surprised at how much of it actually felt
Speaker 1: like going through the real thing. Part of it is,
Speaker 1: I mean more of the hospital stuff, because when you
Speaker 1: were in a hospital. This wasn't a set. We shot
Speaker 1: in a real hospital. The sense memory of being in
Speaker 1: a hospital, and I hadn't that it had been about
Speaker 1: nine years since that stuff happened. Just the lighting, the
Speaker 1: smell of tape, the smell of addison, the sterility sound,
Speaker 1: the sounds, yeah, the weird beeps you hear, all that stuff,
Speaker 1: the sounds of wheels on um linoleum or whatever it is.
Speaker 1: All that stuff took me back immediately, Me and Emily,
Speaker 1: both of us like immediately. So it was actually more
Speaker 1: of a struggle to not uh go back into that
Speaker 1: really sad space. It was actually more of a start
Speaker 1: of struggle to not do that than it was to
Speaker 1: like get into it, you know, like like waiting in
Speaker 1: the waiting room or all that stuff. I hadn't been
Speaker 1: in a hospital really since all that stuff happened to us.
Speaker 1: And going back into it and shooting it there, it
Speaker 1: was very very It was very intense, and it was
Speaker 1: very intense for Emily. It's about ten years ago, right,
Speaker 1: there was two thousand seven. Like I mentioned, mud Bound
Speaker 1: was a big sundance player as well. This year it
Speaker 1: was acquired by Netflix for an astounding twelve point five million.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's astounding, it was worth that certainly.
Speaker 1: Um It's an amazing film and the movie's co writer
Speaker 1: and director de Reese uh is one of the most
Speaker 1: headstrong and driven directors I've ever interviewed. She's already a
Speaker 1: masterful artist just three films in, and her cinematographer, Rachel Morrison,
Speaker 1: actually made history this year with her Oscar nomination for
Speaker 1: Best Cinematography. She's the first woman to do so, which
Speaker 1: is obviously a long time coming. We'd like to dig
Speaker 1: in on the craft of filmmaking on this show, and
Speaker 1: something D and I talked about was settling on the
Speaker 1: look of this post World War two drama and plenty
Speaker 1: of talk about her work with Rachel, So here's d
Speaker 1: talking about that. Yeah, so we didn't look at other films.
Speaker 1: So like, for me, like the visual art world so
Speaker 1: has been my inspiration and like you know, creating kind
Speaker 1: of images for the screen, and so for me inspirations
Speaker 1: where there's artis named Winfield Lavel who does let of
Speaker 1: tone on tone paintings to temporary artists, is a sculptor.
Speaker 1: I love Na Mary Frank who does a lot of
Speaker 1: things that united bidenes and landscapes. And then Rachel had
Speaker 1: like Dorothea Lang and all these w p A photos.
Speaker 1: So we really kind of worked from there and wanted
Speaker 1: the film to feel very kind of candid, very kind
Speaker 1: of like like honest in a way. And another thing
Speaker 1: I love, I love um Less Blank that does these documentaries.
Speaker 1: He'd done this, like this documentary called The Truth of
Speaker 1: Corn and to Lightning Hopkins. So you know, we looked
Speaker 1: at that and like wanted the film to have a
Speaker 1: very kind of moving at the speed of life feel.
Speaker 1: So it doesn't feel presentational, it doesn't feel stagy, which
Speaker 1: can be you know, the catch of a lot of
Speaker 1: period pieces. But we wanted to move with the speed
Speaker 1: of life and feel honest, you know, and yet it's
Speaker 1: I wouldn't call it like a verity thing. I think
Speaker 1: it's a it's aesthetically beautiful, uh, you know, working I
Speaker 1: don't know what your budget was, but like were there
Speaker 1: limitations that absolutely We shot this film in twenty nine
Speaker 1: days for ten million dollars. So this is an indie
Speaker 1: film that no one realizes as an indie film, and
Speaker 1: you know, and that was because Rage was able to
Speaker 1: work so fast and use a lot of lighting, and
Speaker 1: you know, a big you know problem was basically we
Speaker 1: shot in actual sharecropper's cabin, so like a lot of
Speaker 1: the challenge was balancing like the inside versus the outside
Speaker 1: it and so she actually had to cut holes in
Speaker 1: the ceilings of these cabins to be able to put
Speaker 1: lights like in the roof of these things, so that
Speaker 1: you know, the value difference wasn't so great between the
Speaker 1: X tears and interiors and just really you know, making
Speaker 1: these characters feel like they're of the world. And I
Speaker 1: really love to let actors move through the space and
Speaker 1: I don't like blocking that kind of inhibits kind of
Speaker 1: they're they're they're flowing and that's all depend on having
Speaker 1: a DP. This want to be flexible with lighting and
Speaker 1: being able to work with you so that the actors
Speaker 1: have maximum freedom, that the actors are able to kind
Speaker 1: of do their best work. Moving out of Sundance and
Speaker 1: into the release calendar, James Mangold's Logan hit theaters on
Speaker 1: March three, which was less than a week after the
Speaker 1: last year's Oscars were over. And the craziness of that
Speaker 1: envelope snaff who, which I think James and I even
Speaker 1: talked about maybe or that might have been off the air,
Speaker 1: I can't remember, but in any case, I spoke to
Speaker 1: James just before this film released, and I very much
Speaker 1: doubt at the time he expected that, you know, a
Speaker 1: year later he'd be sitting here sharing the first ever
Speaker 1: screenplay nomination for a superhero movie with his co writers.
Speaker 1: But here we are, uh, and I think it's well deserved.
Speaker 1: This film stands out from the fray of superhero movies.
Speaker 1: I feel I'm a big fan of Westerns, as is James,
Speaker 1: and this movie has that genre and as DNA, which
Speaker 1: I thought was a brilliant flourish, so naturally we talked
Speaker 1: about that. So here's James talking about the Western qualities
Speaker 1: of Logan. It's central to the entire story of this
Speaker 1: character as well. UM. I mean for those who aren't
Speaker 1: X men fans. UM. One thing has been essentially true
Speaker 1: about Logan through his comic book history and movie history,
Speaker 1: which is that he's carrying a ton of shame on
Speaker 1: his back about dark deeds he committed when he was
Speaker 1: younger and called weapon X in his incarnation as a
Speaker 1: kind of UM. When he was a gun slinger, he
Speaker 1: was well, he was a drug drug pumped killer. UM.
Speaker 1: But yes, but in the metaphor of the Western he
Speaker 1: was he was a gun slinger and UM and UM
Speaker 1: and a lot of people were hurt, and they weren't
Speaker 1: all UM in it. They weren't all guilty in some way.
Speaker 1: It wasn't always the justified death, if you will. And
Speaker 1: the UM. I think that that's something that's been played
Speaker 1: with throughout UM as I said, comic book history with
Speaker 1: this character and in the movies. But the the idea
Speaker 1: for me of coming of this character, coming to terms
Speaker 1: um with his life UM in a final film seemed
Speaker 1: to me necessary to find some way to go deeper
Speaker 1: into his own odd um relationship with violence. When did
Speaker 1: this kind of conceit because it is it does have
Speaker 1: the dna of a Western When did that Did you
Speaker 1: go into it with that conceit in mind, or did
Speaker 1: it develop as you developed the project like some of
Speaker 1: some of some of some of that comes along with
Speaker 1: just me meaning you know, my second film, Copland, which
Speaker 1: all outward appearances is a kind of Sydney Lamett esque
Speaker 1: New Jersey, kind of Peyton Place cop movie, uh, was
Speaker 1: very much structured actually built on three tena Huma. The
Speaker 1: idea of this kind of weakened mail in the center
Speaker 1: of this town of gun slingers who has called upon
Speaker 1: to kind of find the reserves to stand up to
Speaker 1: this um gun slinging bunch of corruption around him. Um
Speaker 1: the that's all very much. Um was hugely Western influence,
Speaker 1: And in fact that movie ends in a giant gunfight,
Speaker 1: um the um. But a gunfight not like you'd see
Speaker 1: in Heat, but one more like one you'd see in
Speaker 1: High New and the Western has had a powerful effect
Speaker 1: on me. Um. I couldn't completely explain why. But in
Speaker 1: I'm kind of uh a classes I mean I'm not
Speaker 1: I I am from the same generation, Um that a
Speaker 1: host of really talented kind of postmodern directors have come from.
Speaker 1: Probably the leader of all of them would be Quentin
Speaker 1: and I'm a huge fan of his work. But I
Speaker 1: couldn't do anything like that, Like, it's not the whole um. Uh.
Speaker 1: There's something I'm always looking for, something very earnest. I
Speaker 1: miss I miss amid all the really wonderful films made
Speaker 1: along the lines I was just describing. I missed movies
Speaker 1: that mean it, that have something to say, that have
Speaker 1: a kind of gravity to them and are unashamed. It's
Speaker 1: in this kind of most sardonic of ages, it's almost
Speaker 1: gotten um uncool to actually represent a true feeling UM
Speaker 1: that without quotes around it or or a snicker, and
Speaker 1: that that's something the Western for me embodies UM. And
Speaker 1: I was always offered kind of guidance on UM. If
Speaker 1: for listeners who are hearing me describe, you know, Logan's backstory,
Speaker 1: it's kind of very logical if you think about movies
Speaker 1: like Shane or Unforgiven, or Pale Rider or The Manner Shot,
Speaker 1: Liberty Valance. There's a lot of movies that in which
Speaker 1: the kind of bones lineage UM really lend themselves to
Speaker 1: considering UM, considering how you might be able to use
Speaker 1: some of those structures in a modern superhero movie. As
Speaker 1: we moved through the spring, the industry geared up for
Speaker 1: the Can Film Festival in May. Can has kind of
Speaker 1: fallen off in terms of launching oscar players lately, but
Speaker 1: one of the year's best I thought stuck out at
Speaker 1: last year's edition, Sean Baker's The Florida Project. Legendary actor
Speaker 1: Willem Dafoe has been widely recognized for his work on
Speaker 1: the film all season, and he landed his third Supporting
Speaker 1: Actor nomination this year after Platoon and Shadow of the Vampire.
Speaker 1: What's interesting years that he's sort of a central note
Speaker 1: in this film. He's like the recognizable star surrounded by
Speaker 1: all these non actors and green performers, and it just
Speaker 1: makes for an interesting quality and even a bit of
Speaker 1: a family atmosphere on the set. So here's what I'm
Speaker 1: talking about. That it is true that it's a situation where, um,
Speaker 1: the company has made up of people that have been
Speaker 1: cast from the streets, people have been casted from Instagram. Uh,
Speaker 1: there's some professional actors, there's some new professional actors, there's
Speaker 1: some kids, and then you know there's also me. And
Speaker 1: I've been around for a little while. Um, but it's
Speaker 1: always the same on some level. That even even in
Speaker 1: an industry movie, even in a studio film, sometimes you're
Speaker 1: working with people from very different backgrounds and very different trainings.
Speaker 1: I'm always struck that it's in in in the profession
Speaker 1: of acting, particularly for Americans. Uh, there isn't a uniform
Speaker 1: mony of training or a uniform methodology. And I don't
Speaker 1: think that's necessarily a bad thing at all. In fact,
Speaker 1: I think mixing it up helps because, Um, then with
Speaker 1: each project you really have to to find what your
Speaker 1: processes and you also have to find out how to
Speaker 1: fit in with everybody and make the world so it
Speaker 1: doesn't become about you. It becomes about the thing that
Speaker 1: you're making and that frees you. Yeah, well let's talk
Speaker 1: about that. Uh, that environment with these other actors. This atmosphere,
Speaker 1: I mean, was it uh trying? Was it electric? Was it?
Speaker 1: Did it take you back to your roots at all?
Speaker 1: Like had a little bit you know, it was like
Speaker 1: a family, you know, and all film sets are like
Speaker 1: that a little bit. But these were people that this
Speaker 1: wasn't saying old, same old. There was a cynical one
Speaker 1: in the lot because it was a new exciting experience
Speaker 1: for them. And then also it was conditioned by the
Speaker 1: fact that we were shooting in a real ice so
Speaker 1: as extras, Uh, you're having people that are really living
Speaker 1: this life, this life that the story that we're telling
Speaker 1: is about. So they helped route the story as well
Speaker 1: in a reality. Um and for me playing the character,
Speaker 1: it was kind of wild because we're working in a
Speaker 1: functioning motel. It's still functioning. I mean sometimes we had
Speaker 1: to stop a scene because someone was checking into the motel.
Speaker 1: Didn't just take the whole building. We took the whole
Speaker 1: building over. I mean, you know for certain, but in
Speaker 1: terms of you didn't like shut it down like people.
Speaker 1: It was still functioning. It was still functioning. And it
Speaker 1: would be literally like, oh, we gotta shoot that scene.
Speaker 1: So the real manager would have to leave the room.
Speaker 1: I'd slide in there and we'd play the scene. In
Speaker 1: the summer Blockbusters Fear, the first slam dunk across the
Speaker 1: board Oscar considered to actually open theatrically outside of the
Speaker 1: festival circuit was Christopher Nolan's Dunkirk in July. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: not to play favorites, but I will. This is my
Speaker 1: favorite of the Best Picture contenders. I think it's Nolan's
Speaker 1: best film culmination of his tradecraft, if you will. The
Speaker 1: film received eight Oscar nominations, including Best Picture and Best Director,
Speaker 1: and that director nomination was somehow Nolan's first in the category.
Speaker 1: If you can believe that. This was a very technical
Speaker 1: conversation which I wanted. I'm fascinated by Nolan's craft naturally,
Speaker 1: and uh IMAX was a significant topic here as we
Speaker 1: discussed his and cinematographer Hoita van Hoidema's efforts and pushing
Speaker 1: the medium as far as it can go. A lot
Speaker 1: of your choices about UM, who to work with a
Speaker 1: very instinctive. They're about getting in the room with somebody
Speaker 1: and seeing if there's a creative spalk between you. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, I've seen the work you've done on other films.
Speaker 1: Let the right one in in particular my quite impression
Speaker 1: on me Um. But really it was about meeting the
Speaker 1: minds creatively, just in in talking about cinematography and his
Speaker 1: approach to it and what I what I wanted in
Speaker 1: in terms of the photography and Interstellar, because it's more
Speaker 1: than that. Relationship is about more than just lighting or
Speaker 1: camera work. It's about storytelling, and you have to find
Speaker 1: somebody who will really be pulling in the same direction
Speaker 1: as you in terms of how to tell that story
Speaker 1: and what the role of the photography will be in it.
Speaker 1: And so one of the more interesting things I think
Speaker 1: about what Hoiter did in Dunkirk, which is deceptively simple,
Speaker 1: is he didn't ever want to discuss the look of
Speaker 1: the film. He didn't ever want to talk about it
Speaker 1: as any kind of stylization. He had the confidence to
Speaker 1: let it emerge from the material and what we were
Speaker 1: actually going to stage and let that define the look,
Speaker 1: which I think for for myself as a director, I
Speaker 1: have a lot of experience with large scale films. Um.
Speaker 1: You know. I for me that wasn't maybe such a leap,
Speaker 1: but for the for a cinematographer to sort of say,
Speaker 1: we're going to put thousands of people on the beach,
Speaker 1: We're going to get these airplanes, we're gonna get these boots,
Speaker 1: and then we're going to see how that informs the
Speaker 1: creative process of the photography. Um. So, all of our
Speaker 1: conversations in pre production, rather than being esthetic, they were technical.
Speaker 1: It was okay, this is the format was shooting, this
Speaker 1: is the type of lens we need. This is how
Speaker 1: we're going to move the camera around. Um And I
Speaker 1: think that one of the things that I'm happiest about
Speaker 1: with Hoyt's work on the film is the sincerity and
Speaker 1: the naturalness of the way in which he achieved these
Speaker 1: remarkable images left from the heart. I mean, they're just
Speaker 1: somebody with a brilliant eye watching what's going on in
Speaker 1: front of us and finding a way to capture that.
Speaker 1: So there's no imposed style on the photography in the film,
Speaker 1: and in the case of Imax photography is what hoy
Speaker 1: has done in the IMAX format in this film is
Speaker 1: really unique and groundbreaking in my opinion. Um. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think it's the best use of the format you've had
Speaker 1: so far. I mean, certainly. I saw one of the
Speaker 1: early screenings at the Universal City Wall. I felt like
Speaker 1: I was just falling into the screen from the opening frame. Well,
Speaker 1: we had had a bit of practice by this time,
Speaker 1: We've been doing it for ten years, and Hoyder on
Speaker 1: Interstellar finally broke that barrier that we hadn't been able
Speaker 1: to of how to hand hold the camera basically about
Speaker 1: just picking it up and toughing it. But he was
Speaker 1: able then suddenly to give me access to the IMAX
Speaker 1: format as a spontaneous format, as an intimate format, and
Speaker 1: so coming to Dunkirk, where my aspiration for the film
Speaker 1: was an intimate epic, he is then able to put
Speaker 1: that lens right where a thirtyfive mill or a go
Speaker 1: pro would be, you know, and and really give you
Speaker 1: that that intimacy with the characters. But on this incredible
Speaker 1: format that is so it's transparent in a sense, it's
Speaker 1: not stylized, it doesn't have its own look. It just
Speaker 1: lets the screen disappear and immerses the audience in the action.
Speaker 1: And so I think always really trusted the format and
Speaker 1: trusted his eye to just be there, follow the characters
Speaker 1: through and find them the look of the thing that way,
Speaker 1: rather than imposing a style on it. And I think
Speaker 1: I think it's it's remarkable work that that answers my
Speaker 1: next question, which was I was curious if you guys
Speaker 1: pulled any references, if you looked at photography or any artwork,
Speaker 1: but obviously not, but in general, was that just for
Speaker 1: this movie or is that something that you're typically interested
Speaker 1: in coming into pre production. I think it depends on
Speaker 1: the on the project. I've often done films where in
Speaker 1: the case of Inception, you know, working with Whalley, with
Speaker 1: different storylines that intersect or interact, you know, there is
Speaker 1: perhaps a temptation to, well, we could do you know,
Speaker 1: this one this particular color, or this process or put
Speaker 1: this look to it. I've always have come down on
Speaker 1: the side of naturalism, and that's why it works so
Speaker 1: well with Molly Fister, It's why I think it works
Speaker 1: as well with Van Hoyt. They're naturalistic photographers. They sort
Speaker 1: of trust the material in front of them in a way,
Speaker 1: and so you trust that the reality of the physical
Speaker 1: differences of the different timelines will start to naturally achieve
Speaker 1: some kind of a look. And I've always tried to
Speaker 1: shoot on the highest quality format, the most transparent medium possible,
Speaker 1: so that you are really just giving the audience access
Speaker 1: to the look and feel of the world that you
Speaker 1: want them to respond to. The tactile quality that you
Speaker 1: want people to watch Dunkerk in such a way that
Speaker 1: they know what everything would smell like. You know, that
Speaker 1: that kind of tacticality that that's very important. Now the
Speaker 1: Venice Film Festival has of folved into a significant Oscar
Speaker 1: season launchpad. It's kicked off the journeys of films like Gravity, Birdman, Spotlight,
Speaker 1: and La La Land in recent years. This year's opener
Speaker 1: was Garma del Toro's The Shape of Water, a gorgeous
Speaker 1: fairy tale as only Garmo could conjure. I love talking
Speaker 1: to Garamo. I think everyone does. His passion is infectious
Speaker 1: and he really deserves all the love he's getting this year.
Speaker 1: Shape of Water was an idea that took root for
Speaker 1: Garmo when he was a child watching Creature from the
Speaker 1: Black Lagoon, and it was an idea that evolved to
Speaker 1: take on a sort of low key socio political bent,
Speaker 1: and that's something we discussed. So here's Garamo. It's great
Speaker 1: because it's full circle in many ways for many reasons.
Speaker 1: You know. It started when I was six and I
Speaker 1: saw Julie Adams swimming and Creature from a like one
Speaker 1: in the Creatures swimming underneath contemplating her, you know, and
Speaker 1: I thought, what a beautiful image E went on eight six.
Speaker 1: I was enraptured by it, and I was enraptured by
Speaker 1: the love that it had, the romance it had, but
Speaker 1: of course they didn't end up together, you know, And
Speaker 1: and it was something I kept thinking about it. I thought, well,
Speaker 1: you know, this was a very unfair movie. I thought,
Speaker 1: because they break into the home of the guy uh
Speaker 1: and they kill him, basically that there's a very tragic movie.
Speaker 1: For me, I've always seen monsters as very spiritual figures
Speaker 1: for me, very metaphorical, you know, sort of embodied concepts
Speaker 1: for me. And I stayed with that, and then in
Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, you know, the project started as such,
Speaker 1: and it took five or six years to get it
Speaker 1: made and properly rendered and writing writing it. The scene
Speaker 1: that reunited is to go through the janitors, to go
Speaker 1: through the invisible people, the people without boys, because it's
Speaker 1: a movie about the other. It's a movie about embracing
Speaker 1: the other nest, finding the divine, the love of all
Speaker 1: the beautiful and the other as opposed to the fear
Speaker 1: and the rage and all these things that we are
Speaker 1: living today. And and that's why I subtitle the movie
Speaker 1: it said, uh, the Ship of Water a fairy tale
Speaker 1: for troubled times, because I felt it was like that.
Speaker 1: For me. It was to talk about love without being corny,
Speaker 1: to talk about emotions, which is now much harder. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think we're in a very difficult age for emotions.
Speaker 1: You know, we we we can talk cynically, we can
Speaker 1: talk with iron irony, you know, and it really sounds smart.
Speaker 1: And when you talk about emotions normally you sound this ingenious.
Speaker 1: And I thought it, let's take the riskless embrace a
Speaker 1: movie that's in love with love, in love with cinema,
Speaker 1: you know, make it a beautifully sort of classic Douglas cirque,
Speaker 1: uh technical or all the beauty that we can put
Speaker 1: in the screen and and go at it with emotion.
Speaker 1: What do you think that is that? It's to your
Speaker 1: point about sin is m today? I mean when you
Speaker 1: say that, when you say that, like, you know, people
Speaker 1: speak with irony and it sounds smart. It seems like
Speaker 1: something that would be driven by the Internet age in
Speaker 1: a but it's driven by fear and isolation. Really, I
Speaker 1: mean the look, the fact is ideologies. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a different, major difference between ideas and ideologies. And
Speaker 1: when an ideology comes to play, is what separates you
Speaker 1: from others. You know, then ideology is the only thing
Speaker 1: that allows a person to grab up a ton and
Speaker 1: beat another human being because you are reduced to a thing,
Speaker 1: You are reduced to your race, you're an immigrant, or
Speaker 1: you're reduced to your gender, and and it allows the
Speaker 1: person to be humanize you, you know. And uh, the
Speaker 1: key to that, the solution to that is love. Because
Speaker 1: I know this sounds silly, but it is. Is is
Speaker 1: the one cosmic force. The Beetles, Buddha and Jesus agree,
Speaker 1: and and it's because love is understanding is empathy, you know.
Speaker 1: And when you empathize, when you walk in another person's
Speaker 1: shoes for a couple of minutes, you understand the entirety
Speaker 1: of their persona, not not just the identity that ideology
Speaker 1: gave them. So we are like the discourse socially is
Speaker 1: so exacerbated right now. It's so rife with anger and resentment.
Speaker 1: And I think that partially, yes, you can talk about
Speaker 1: social media, but also politically, and we've come to the
Speaker 1: point and it's one of the oldest techniques. There are
Speaker 1: two possible explanations why your situation is bad socially A
Speaker 1: one percent of the people own about the world or
Speaker 1: be quote unquote them whatever you want to call them,
Speaker 1: immigration raise and the first one makes you take an
Speaker 1: active role. The second one absolves you. There's one to
Speaker 1: tell you no no, no, you're right, You're fine. It's
Speaker 1: dam that are the problem, and and very easily you
Speaker 1: pour the hatred into them. But that's not the real problem.
Speaker 1: And I think that that is used politically more and
Speaker 1: more and more to deflect this tract, you know. So
Speaker 1: there are many factors, and the movie is at the
Speaker 1: same time very humane and very political, because look, the
Speaker 1: moment when you take a stance in any narrative is
Speaker 1: a political stance. If you tell the story of Waterloo
Speaker 1: from Napoleon's point of view is one movie. If you
Speaker 1: tell it from the person iron in his trousers, that's
Speaker 1: another one. And that's what we did on Shape of Water.
Speaker 1: We we told you a story not through the agents
Speaker 1: and the scientists, but through the cleaning to the janitors
Speaker 1: in the place, you know, the cleaning women that had
Speaker 1: to wipe the toilets, empty the trashmans. And from that
Speaker 1: moment and taking the point of view of not the
Speaker 1: hero but the monster, you already are taking a political stance.
Speaker 1: Was nominated for Best Picture as a producer, as well
Speaker 1: as Best Director and Best Original Screenplay. By the Way,
Speaker 1: another Venice debut was Martin McDonough's Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri,
Speaker 1: which has become quite uh quite the lightning rod this season.
Speaker 1: But I'll get into that in a minute. Let's start
Speaker 1: with one of the film's stars and one of my
Speaker 1: favorite actors, Sam Rockwell. Sam plays a racist Missouri cop
Speaker 1: in the film, opposite Francis McDormand and Woody Harrelson, who
Speaker 1: were also nominated. One of the things that Sam and
Speaker 1: I talked about was his research for the part and
Speaker 1: going down to Missouri and taking all that in. So
Speaker 1: here's Sam talking about that. I met a couple of cops.
Speaker 1: I met one um Deemer in l A. Who would
Speaker 1: he was with? I think Casey did a ride along
Speaker 1: with him. And then I met a couple of Missouri
Speaker 1: cops and Tay had them take my lines. My my
Speaker 1: dialect coach Lewis Hamilstein found these cops in southern Missouri.
Speaker 1: We had we had to have some conversations, like I
Speaker 1: emailed with Francis and Martin, like where are we gonna
Speaker 1: where's this imaginary very Missouri town gonna be? Is it
Speaker 1: gonna be southern or northern because there's a big difference
Speaker 1: in the way they talk, And so we sort of
Speaker 1: agreed that it was generally would be southern Missouri. And
Speaker 1: then I then I knew what I had to find,
Speaker 1: and so it was cool to go down there to
Speaker 1: southern Missouri. I did it right along um this beautiful guy,
Speaker 1: and he introduced me all these all these guys and
Speaker 1: you know, and so that was really cool. That was
Speaker 1: really influenced a lot about the characters. Do you feel
Speaker 1: a sort of pressure though? Whenever? I mean, this is
Speaker 1: this is a very complex character and obviously it's takes
Speaker 1: it takes place in a fictional Missouri town, and the
Speaker 1: unrest out of Ferguson that is obviously just playing on
Speaker 1: the fringes of this film. Absolutely, yeah, you know, does
Speaker 1: that provide a sense of pressure to make sure that
Speaker 1: you're not painting a caricature? Absolutely? And that's why I
Speaker 1: went down there, you know. I mean, Martin wrote this
Speaker 1: before Ferguson, but um, I did. I did feel kind
Speaker 1: of obliged to find out the real story a little bit,
Speaker 1: and I asked those guys a lot of questions, you know,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, the bottom line is I didn't
Speaker 1: see racism down there. I mean I didn't. I I
Speaker 1: saw a lot of stuff, but I didn't, Um, but
Speaker 1: I obviously it exists, and and so you know my job.
Speaker 1: I didn't need to go to Missouri to play this part.
Speaker 1: I mean, it just helped me personally. I wanted I
Speaker 1: at the time, and I wanted to do it. But
Speaker 1: you know, um, the Dixon's Journey is important, I think
Speaker 1: to that topic, you know, and I think it does
Speaker 1: say something. I'm not sure what quite what it says.
Speaker 1: But that's what's so an enigmatic about the script. I
Speaker 1: think it doesn't It doesn't even seem like it's actively
Speaker 1: trying to say something to you, like it's trying to
Speaker 1: dictake something. It's it just the way that the themes
Speaker 1: and the characters and all the interplay comes together. It
Speaker 1: just leaves you with this sense. Yeah. And I don't
Speaker 1: even know how you put a word to it, but yeah,
Speaker 1: you could. You could put a bunch of labels. You
Speaker 1: could put you know, feminism and you know, um racism
Speaker 1: and anti rad you could put a lot of labels
Speaker 1: these days, um anti violence and you know. But it's
Speaker 1: just really at the end of the day, it's a
Speaker 1: really entertaining and potent, uh screenplay, you know, in movie
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, now, the film's director Martin McDonough and
Speaker 1: he was the surprise omission this year in the Best
Speaker 1: Director category, but he was nominated for his original screenplay.
Speaker 1: Three Billboards has attracted a lot of criticism for what
Speaker 1: some feel to be a blase or or tone deaf
Speaker 1: handling of racism in America. There were a lot of
Speaker 1: think pieces at the end of the year and after
Speaker 1: the Golden Globes where the film kind of swept uh.
Speaker 1: And that's around the time that Martin and I spoke.
Speaker 1: But I had not seen anyone really asking him about this,
Speaker 1: so I did. I asked McDonough about these criticisms and
Speaker 1: what he was aiming for with his work on the page.
Speaker 1: So here's Martin. Well, I think some of it comes
Speaker 1: from the idea that there's a uh that Sam's character
Speaker 1: has redeemed at the end of the film. Um. I
Speaker 1: don't think he is. No. I think at the end
Speaker 1: he he's still the asshole that he was at the
Speaker 1: start of the film. Um. But I think there is
Speaker 1: hopefully by the end of it, he's he's seen that
Speaker 1: he has to change almost you know. But but the
Speaker 1: film isn't about simple heroes and villains, and he in
Speaker 1: no way I think does he ever become become a
Speaker 1: hero in it? The whole the whole part of one
Speaker 1: of the ideas of the stories, like who are the
Speaker 1: villains and who are the heroes? And is anyone you know,
Speaker 1: is anyone really that heroic? But but certainly, you know,
Speaker 1: I did want to explore the idea of of Frances
Speaker 1: and a strong woman, you know, going against the police
Speaker 1: in the South, and I thought, I do believe that,
Speaker 1: you know, the racial angle is definitely one of the
Speaker 1: weapons she would throw at them, um so um. But
Speaker 1: the idea, the idea that human beings, that there's hope
Speaker 1: in a story like this, even with characters as as
Speaker 1: despicable as as as Sam's is um. I thought that
Speaker 1: was an interesting thing to explore. Uh. Well, in any
Speaker 1: early drafts, did you ever have any thought towards using race,
Speaker 1: like instead of using race as a backdrop or as
Speaker 1: a tool for her means? Was there any exploration of
Speaker 1: a black character and more in depth, or any depicting
Speaker 1: any of these kinds of events as opposed to just
Speaker 1: kind of using them as backdrop? There was, I mean,
Speaker 1: we we filmed a few scenes with with and um,
Speaker 1: certainly with Francis's friend and a gift shop had a
Speaker 1: couple of extrachines that didn't make it into the finish film.
Speaker 1: Um so, but but the story is pretty much you know,
Speaker 1: based and focused on on Francis's character. So so it's
Speaker 1: her story, and you know, I'm sure the next film
Speaker 1: will be different, um just as this was like way
Speaker 1: different to the sort of male centric films I didn't
Speaker 1: the first two. Um but because it's factis a story. Um,
Speaker 1: I guess it's her that I was concentrating on, and
Speaker 1: no one else really comes as through as strong as
Speaker 1: she does. Did you write with her in mind? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the completely written for for frances I'm not sure
Speaker 1: who I would have gone to if she just said no,
Speaker 1: because she was just perfect for it. You know, she's
Speaker 1: she's probably the best actress of her generation, I think.
Speaker 1: But if she's also got that kind of off screen
Speaker 1: kind of edginess too. You know, she doesn't really play
Speaker 1: the Hollywood game, and and that's kind of what was
Speaker 1: great to tap into. Like even that seeing her like
Speaker 1: breathe past the red carpets and not do interviews and
Speaker 1: not do the awards circuit. It's kind of it's almost Mildred.
Speaker 1: Like you know, she just doesn't give her a doubt
Speaker 1: about what you're supposed to do. And I think that's
Speaker 1: that's what's brilliant about her, much to mine in my colleagues,
Speaker 1: should keep trying. Would love to have you on the show. Friends,
Speaker 1: never moving out of us and into another late summer event.
Speaker 1: They Tell Your Ride Film Festival, which comes every Labor
Speaker 1: Day weekend up in the mountains of Colorado, has become
Speaker 1: the pre eminent showcase for would be Oscar contenders. Eight
Speaker 1: of the last nine Best Picture winners have screened there. Uh,
Speaker 1: and it's a very small exclusive lineup, like thirty or
Speaker 1: forty films, so that's actually saying something. Many of those
Speaker 1: were world premiers. In fact, this year's Best Picture Tell
Speaker 1: Your Ride debuts were Darkest Hour and Ladybird. For Lady Bird,
Speaker 1: I talked to writer director Greta Gerwig and Sarsha Ronan
Speaker 1: together and their energy together is just wonderful, which you'll
Speaker 1: see in this clip and certainly in the full interview.
Speaker 1: One focus of the chat was Search's excitement over playing
Speaker 1: a female character of complexity written by a woman, and uh,
Speaker 1: it was just different from from many of the roles
Speaker 1: she reads on a daily basis. So here's Sarsha and
Speaker 1: Gretta talking about that and some other stuff. It's a
Speaker 1: female character who's complex, you know, it's a it's a
Speaker 1: young especially for to read a young girl who's in
Speaker 1: real life. When you're a chick and you're like seventeen
Speaker 1: years old, seventy, everything is changing, just like it is
Speaker 1: for a boy. Like you're at that stage in your
Speaker 1: life where you don't know who you are, you don't
Speaker 1: know where you're going. You're very driven, but you don't
Speaker 1: know what you're heading towards, like you're really you spend
Speaker 1: those few years just figuring all this ship out. And
Speaker 1: when I remember when I was seventeen eighty and I
Speaker 1: had gotten so used to playing these really great, well
Speaker 1: written child roles, and then as soon as I became
Speaker 1: a teenage girl, they just weren't there. I couldn't find
Speaker 1: them anywhere. And this is the first time, really, it
Speaker 1: was the first time that I had read a teenage
Speaker 1: girl that had all the complexities of a real teenager,
Speaker 1: you know, boy, or a girl who was who was
Speaker 1: a great friend and but was also drawn towards you know,
Speaker 1: the popular kids because she wanted to be liked, but
Speaker 1: had our principles, but sort of veered away from them
Speaker 1: when she felt a little unsure of herself. And like
Speaker 1: it's it was. I mean, all the characters and are
Speaker 1: are so well rounded, and you just don't find that
Speaker 1: very often when a teenage girl is at the helm
Speaker 1: of it, you know. Yeah, And I saw a lot
Speaker 1: of myself in it, funnily enough, I mean I graduated
Speaker 1: high school, so some of the stuff was familiar to me.
Speaker 1: And like I keep joking, like the Timothy shallow make character,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I knew this guy was close and waxing, poetic,
Speaker 1: coffee shop dwelling, Like I knew this guy. I might
Speaker 1: have tried to be that guy. Yeah, but well it's
Speaker 1: we can all be forgiven trying to be whoever we
Speaker 1: tried to be. I think even Lady Bird tries to
Speaker 1: be that guy. Yeah, that's what I mean. That's one
Speaker 1: of the things I love about Lady Bird is what
Speaker 1: a good student she is in terms of, like the
Speaker 1: next time you see her after she's met Kyle, she's
Speaker 1: got a copy of the People's History of It's because
Speaker 1: she pays attention. That's why he likes I will now
Speaker 1: go get that book and also like it. And there's
Speaker 1: something very like a sponge driven about that. You know,
Speaker 1: there's there's it's so great, like the scene where she's
Speaker 1: just turned out eat saying she goes into the store
Speaker 1: and she's like, I'll have a packlet of cigarettes on
Speaker 1: a scratcher and a play girl. And I remember up
Speaker 1: until recently because I think I definitely had a sort
Speaker 1: of delayed response to being like a young adult. And
Speaker 1: I remember when I moved to London, I had that
Speaker 1: I had like such anxiety when I would just like
Speaker 1: go to the supermarket because I was like, Okay, this
Speaker 1: is what normal grown ups do. And I remember I
Speaker 1: would walk around in this sort of floaty way and
Speaker 1: I'd be like, okay, I need the eggs. Where the eggs,
Speaker 1: where the eggs are eggs, And I'm like panicking in
Speaker 1: my head, but I'm looking around them like Okay, I
Speaker 1: look normal. And I think you spend so much of
Speaker 1: your later teenage years in early twenties pretending to be
Speaker 1: an adult are like playing the role of an adult,
Speaker 1: and I think that's something that she does too, totally.
Speaker 1: I totally. It's also the first time you're at a supermarket.
Speaker 1: I think when you're out of your own home, there's this. Also,
Speaker 1: I had this anxiety of like I'd only ever seen
Speaker 1: my mom shop for a family of you know, five,
Speaker 1: and and so I had like completely incorrect proportions about
Speaker 1: how much one person. And it was like, you do
Speaker 1: not need to buy the economy pack of cheerios that
Speaker 1: you will take you a year ago through that you
Speaker 1: can just buy the regular size cheers and move on
Speaker 1: from there. But I feel like I'm so interested in
Speaker 1: I don't know, And I've always liked I've always liked
Speaker 1: younger characters trying on adult morality because I feel like
Speaker 1: they're almost practicing for it. I put this in the script, no,
Speaker 1: and I wrote Mistress America. We put this in and
Speaker 1: like some character saying about another character who's is also eighteen,
Speaker 1: like he was unfaithful to me. And it was just
Speaker 1: it's like this idea of like, who are you doing
Speaker 1: this exactly? What is this? What are these adult rules
Speaker 1: you're imposing on yourself at this moment? Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: think it's it's it's how you learn how to do it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, how else you imitate it? Greta's nomination for
Speaker 1: Best Director, made her just the fifth woman ever recognized
Speaker 1: in the category ninety years. She was also nominated for
Speaker 1: Original Screenplay, while Sercha was nominated for Best Actress and
Speaker 1: her on screen mom, Laurie Metcalf, picked up a nomination
Speaker 1: for Supporting Actress. Laurie's won Emmy's and a Tony. But
Speaker 1: she's never found herself in the Oscar season until this role,
Speaker 1: so she's just soaking it up. She spoke about the
Speaker 1: unique environment Greta creates on set, So here's Laurie talking
Speaker 1: about that. It's all about her energy, I think. And
Speaker 1: energy on the set was a one of collaboration, of
Speaker 1: support and feeling protected of watching her watch the monitor
Speaker 1: with his big grin on her face and knowing that
Speaker 1: she was in her element, she wouldn't want to be
Speaker 1: anywhere else and that she had our back, and that
Speaker 1: made everybody in the cast and crew feel very protected.
Speaker 1: Um and uh, there was a lightness about the set
Speaker 1: and maybe even a maternal quality because um, you felt
Speaker 1: that she was watching out for everybody. Now, she had
Speaker 1: to have been going through stressful days because I think
Speaker 1: that's inevitable as a director. Um maybe, and also a
Speaker 1: first solo director. Um, nobody knew if that was the case. Um,
Speaker 1: she just has an ease. She's just a natural at it.
Speaker 1: You'd never know it was her first time. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: as I said just before the I first saw this
Speaker 1: movie at Tell Your Ride where it premiered. UM and
Speaker 1: I walked out and I tweeted something like I love
Speaker 1: Ladybirds so much, I can't stand it. And four Is
Speaker 1: used it in their advertising, which, yeah, that's the truth.
Speaker 1: I mean. And what's interesting to me is that it's
Speaker 1: been such a universally beloved movie this year. I mean,
Speaker 1: all the talk of the critically acclaimed, the rotten Tomato score,
Speaker 1: all of that. Why do you think that it struck
Speaker 1: such a universal core? You know, I saw it for
Speaker 1: the first time, I tell you right, Also, um And
Speaker 1: I was so I was right in the middle of
Speaker 1: a group of with you seeing it for the first time.
Speaker 1: And I was literally seeing most of the movie for
Speaker 1: the first time myself because all my scenes were with
Speaker 1: no I'm in like, I don't know it. And so
Speaker 1: I was having a blast seeing what all the high
Speaker 1: school scenes were about. Um And and when I walked
Speaker 1: out and where and I was hearing people saying I've
Speaker 1: how to call my mother. I want to see this
Speaker 1: with my daughter, UM father's or men saying I have
Speaker 1: witnessed that mother daughter relationship and have also felt like
Speaker 1: I was the outsider, Like Tracy's character is like just
Speaker 1: just just wanting to be um, non confrontational about it
Speaker 1: and not really understanding it, not understanding how they can
Speaker 1: flip on a dime, like in the thrift store scene
Speaker 1: where they're looking for a dress together and arguing that
Speaker 1: the classic passive aggressive banter going back and forth and
Speaker 1: then they find the perfect dress. Um. It's so it's
Speaker 1: a complex relationship as far as the mother daughter scenes go.
Speaker 1: That Greta was able to walk such a fine line
Speaker 1: and find the balance so that one is just not
Speaker 1: an ogre, you know, one is not doing all the
Speaker 1: button pushing. The mother doesn't exist, just to show what
Speaker 1: the daughter's homelike as home life is like and which
Speaker 1: he has to put up with with parents who don't
Speaker 1: understand her. You know she really I guess that's what
Speaker 1: people are responding to that it's it seems very it's
Speaker 1: very detailed. Um, it's not our own individual details that
Speaker 1: are up there on the screen, but it's so close. Yes,
Speaker 1: As for Darkest Hour, I was privileged to speak to
Speaker 1: one of my favorite actors of all time, Gary Oldman.
Speaker 1: Gary has made a career of immersing himself in makeup
Speaker 1: to play iconic roles in films like bram Stoker's Dracula
Speaker 1: and True Romance and The Fifth Element. But after Hannibal,
Speaker 1: which you might recall he was the guy that had
Speaker 1: his face showed off in that movie, he took some
Speaker 1: time off from that kind of thing. I can't imagine
Speaker 1: sitting in the makeup chair every day for hours on end,
Speaker 1: but he's certainly uh put in his time with that,
Speaker 1: and we spoke about that. So here's Gary. Well, I
Speaker 1: had a big, a big, big gap from it. I
Speaker 1: the last time I was in that kind of makeup
Speaker 1: I think was for Hannibal, the really Scott film, and
Speaker 1: that was six hours. But then I would only I
Speaker 1: would only work a four our day in it um.
Speaker 1: And that was the whole thing with contact lenses and
Speaker 1: they had they rigged up a device that held my
Speaker 1: eyes open, so I had no eyelids, so I didn't
Speaker 1: link and and you could only you could only it
Speaker 1: was every fifteen minutes they had to give me eye
Speaker 1: drops and release the eyelids to rest the eye. So
Speaker 1: it was a sort of very um, a crazy process
Speaker 1: and I and I swore after that that I would
Speaker 1: never do it again. UM. And that was my you know,
Speaker 1: that was my life. They're done with with with that
Speaker 1: kind of makeup. UM. When this came up with Darkest
Speaker 1: Hour came on the scene, it was it was a necessity.
Speaker 1: It was the only way to go. So I knew
Speaker 1: going in um and and and Hannibal was seven eight days,
Speaker 1: you know. UM, so you're looking at Winston um. You know,
Speaker 1: you're looking at fifty in that kind of makeup. UM.
Speaker 1: And then we had test makeups. So I think it's
Speaker 1: sixty one times that I had that I had the
Speaker 1: makeup on UM And yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot.
Speaker 1: It's a lot to go through it. UM. But of
Speaker 1: course you're then working with Kazuhiro Suji who designed designed
Speaker 1: the makeup. It was it was Lucy and Dave that
Speaker 1: that painted it and applied it on a daily basis,
Speaker 1: But it was but it was Kazoo who came up
Speaker 1: with the with with the look. And when you're working
Speaker 1: with someone like that and that kind of material, I
Speaker 1: mean it really is like a synthetic skin. It's not
Speaker 1: cumbersome restrictive in any way. What does it do for
Speaker 1: you psychologically? Like working in the space, putting you you know,
Speaker 1: being disappeared into a role like that essentially, like is
Speaker 1: it helpful for you? Does it feel like something you
Speaker 1: have to act act past? Does it feel ever feel
Speaker 1: like you know, just free you personally? Well, the whole
Speaker 1: experience was very um immersive, um. Going back to the
Speaker 1: the sort of work, the homework on the role was
Speaker 1: a year um, and that was a year of all
Speaker 1: really all things Churchill. I mean, it was just it
Speaker 1: was constantly in my he was constantly in my head.
Speaker 1: Then you had, um four weeks rehearsal, which is sort
Speaker 1: of unheard up for a film where you got to
Speaker 1: really physicalize and vocalize the character and the set that
Speaker 1: the Sarah Greenwood's designs were just that they were so
Speaker 1: immersive and so detailed, and then you're looking in the
Speaker 1: mirror and you're at least seeing an essence of a
Speaker 1: spirit of of of Winsden, so you are stepping in.
Speaker 1: It was a little bit like just really touching history
Speaker 1: and stepping back. You know, when you you stepped back
Speaker 1: in time. You know, it's sort of so the whole um,
Speaker 1: A great deal of that is doing the work for you,
Speaker 1: and we've come to the end of the year. One
Speaker 1: of the year's final OSCAR releases, which premiered at the
Speaker 1: Toronto Film Festival, was Aaron Sorkin's directorial debut, Molly's Game.
Speaker 1: Though Aaron is very accomplished as a screenwriter, you know,
Speaker 1: he won the Oscar for The Social Network, and he's
Speaker 1: nominated for writing again this year for this film, this
Speaker 1: was his first stab at directing. H We talked about
Speaker 1: some of those insecurities going into the gig, but I
Speaker 1: think he managed just fine. The Director's Guild certainly agreed.
Speaker 1: He received one of the guild's debut director nominations this year.
Speaker 1: So here's Aaron talking about saddling up as a director
Speaker 1: for the first time. You know, it's funny. I did
Speaker 1: a Padel last night where someone asked that question, and
Speaker 1: as I told the person who asked a question, not
Speaker 1: only was that the first time I'd ever been asked
Speaker 1: that question, it was the first time I've ever thought
Speaker 1: about that question. Right in that moment when I had
Speaker 1: to answer. It was the first time I ever thought
Speaker 1: about it, and the answer is absolutely yes, I would have.
Speaker 1: I am so grateful that I didn't know, uh that
Speaker 1: I was directing it when I was writing it, because
Speaker 1: I would have been too scared, uh to to write
Speaker 1: some of the scenes that I wrote. The whole opening sequence,
Speaker 1: the first eight minutes has more action in it than
Speaker 1: every movie I've written combined. Right, I like, I write
Speaker 1: people talking in rooms, and it's like, the director will
Speaker 1: take care of this exactly right. The director is going
Speaker 1: to know how we do this ski crash if um
Speaker 1: the director is gonna know how to you know, do
Speaker 1: the getting beaten up scene? Um on. The director is
Speaker 1: going to make these pokers things look fantastic. Uh. You
Speaker 1: know Fincher came along and made computer hacking look like
Speaker 1: a bank robbery. Uh. That's what directors do. They take
Speaker 1: this thing that I write, which doesn't have a whole
Speaker 1: lot of visual interest, and uh and they give it
Speaker 1: visual interest. I write the lyrics, they write the music.
Speaker 1: Um so. Uh So I am grateful that that I
Speaker 1: didn't know. Uh. It wouldn't have been as good a
Speaker 1: screenplay if I had known that I was directing him.
Speaker 1: Um So, what was the biggest learning curve just before
Speaker 1: we get into Jessica and everything. You know, you never
Speaker 1: even I don't think directly like a television anything. I'd
Speaker 1: never directed anything before. I I'm not a complete production novice.
Speaker 1: I've I've been on the set every day of every
Speaker 1: movie that I've written. UH. And as the show runner
Speaker 1: in television, you're involved in every aspect of production from
Speaker 1: prep to post, and obviously I write the script to UH. Still,
Speaker 1: the biggest learning curve was going to be that, in
Speaker 1: the twenty five years I've been a professional writer, I
Speaker 1: had managed to absorb none of the science of filmmaking
Speaker 1: at all. I couldn't pick a long lens out of
Speaker 1: a police lineup. UH. Enter Charlotta Christiansen, our cinematographer, Charlotta
Speaker 1: Uh flew over from Denmark, where she lives to meet
Speaker 1: with me. She had just gotten done shooting two movies.
Speaker 1: We talked about, UM, my vision for the look of
Speaker 1: the movie and two separate looks when we were in
Speaker 1: present day and when we were showing the story of
Speaker 1: Molly going from skier to UH to poker Princess. UH.
Speaker 1: But I told her, you know, listen, I'm just scared
Speaker 1: that I don't have the vocabulary too that you that
Speaker 1: you need the director to have for you to be
Speaker 1: able to do your job. Uh. And she said, no,
Speaker 1: don't worry about it at all. Here, here's what's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: We're gonna we're gonna talk about the scene. Um. We're
Speaker 1: going to create a shot list of everything that you
Speaker 1: want to get and I'm I'm going to be very opinionated.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you I also want to get this shot. Uh.
Speaker 1: And this shot I'm never gonna tell you. No, I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna do your shot, but I'm gonna add a
Speaker 1: couple of my own. But in terms of lenses and lighting,
Speaker 1: I got this. Have this handheld device. I'm gonna snap
Speaker 1: a lens on it, and you're gonna look through it,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna tell me if you like what you see,
Speaker 1: and if you do, I'm going to take the lens
Speaker 1: off the handheld device and put it on the camera. Um. Uh.
Speaker 1: And that's how we do it. And UM, there was
Speaker 1: a lot less for me to be scared of than
Speaker 1: uh than I thought. The truth of the matter is
Speaker 1: that for every area of film production, there's an expert
Speaker 1: uh in that position. So UM, stand on their shoulders.
Speaker 1: It's exactly right. So that is by no means a
Speaker 1: complete snapshot of the Oscar season. There's a few films
Speaker 1: and talent we didn't get to this year, movies like
Speaker 1: Call Me by Your Name and Titania, Phantom Thread in
Speaker 1: the Post, all of them competing for gold trophies this weekend.
Speaker 1: So check out the Oscars. It's on Sunday, March four.
Speaker 1: Tune in good Luck to your favorites, and check us
Speaker 1: out every Thursday for more episodes of Playback. We've got
Speaker 1: a lot of great guests coming up this year. A Duverne,
Speaker 1: David All, Yellow Woe, Jason Reitman. Then be talking to
Speaker 1: Ethan Hawk. He's got a lot going on this year,
Speaker 1: so it's gonna be a good slate. We'll be here
Speaker 1: every week. I hope you can make it once again.
Speaker 1: You've been listening to Playback a variety. I heart Media
Speaker 1: podcast