1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, A production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Holly Frye and 3 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:20,479 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy B. Wilson. We talked about tomorrow d'lmpica this week. 4 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: Oh she's a lot. Yeah, I have such mixed feelings 5 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: about her. Yeah. Boy, her art is spectacularly beautiful. 6 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 2: YEP. 7 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: So there's the part where we read a quote that 8 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: she had said that was sort of like I was 9 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: the first woman ever to do this, and I was like, hmm, 10 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,279 Speaker 1: really because the name did not ring a bell. And 11 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: then I googled and I was like, Okay, this is 12 00:00:55,080 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: incredibly distinctive visual artwork. You're not the first woman ever 13 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: to be an artist, But I kind of see what 14 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: you're saying about, right, what's distinct about it? Yeah, it is. 15 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: It's so distinctive, and it is really exceptionally beautiful, especially 16 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: if you really like that like slightly surreal art deco look. Right. 17 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,759 Speaker 1: But yeah, like I said, if I had one tenth 18 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: of her confidence, m I'd be scared of myself. I think. 19 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 2: She. 20 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 1: I didn't include it in the episode, but she does 21 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: bump up against other people we have talked about on 22 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: the show, including she was apparently a pretty regular attendee 23 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: at Natalie Clifford Barney's get togethers Okay, makes absolute sense. 24 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: I could see the two of them rolling together, no problem, Like, Okay, 25 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: those are two women that are friends. I just wrote 26 00:01:53,040 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: a whole fiction in my head. Yeah. Yeah, I am 27 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: ceaselessly fascinated, heartbroken, curious about her relationship with Today's and 28 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: how they continued to kind of keep going together even 29 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: though they both clearly didn't like their marriage. And you know, 30 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: it really is one of those things of like two 31 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: people who are very broken but in ways that do 32 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: not work. You know, a lot of times people will say, 33 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 1: if you go through as a couple some particularly harrowing experience, 34 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: it either brings you very close together and galvanizes you, 35 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: or it tears you apart. And it's like theirs tore 36 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: them apart. But also they weren't apart, so they just 37 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: kind of tortured each other for the next number of years, 38 00:02:50,440 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: which is awful. She was so controlling not only her husband, child, 39 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 1: et cetera. I mean, forget the double standard of by 40 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 1: the way, I can have affairs as often and as 41 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: blatantly as I want, but you meet one person and 42 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 1: you have betrayed me, right, I have a whole girl. 43 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: Get over you with that whole thing. But she was 44 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: controlling with people she had no business being involved in 45 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 1: their lives kind of situation. She is one of those people. 46 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: This is really going to grind your gears. I can 47 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: just tell you up front. At things like dinner parties, 48 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: she didn't have to be the host. She would start 49 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: clearing people's plates before they were done and talking about 50 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: how like Americans were all too fat. Oh yeah. Apparently 51 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: she was at I don't know who this quote is 52 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: attributed to, because the account I read kind of is 53 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: sparing the person who said it from being revealed because 54 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: it could be considered very I don't know if rude 55 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: is the right word, but just you know, not appropriate 56 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: things to say at dinner. Even though they're responding to 57 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: someone being very inappropriate, it evolves a threat, which is 58 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: probably why. But apparently she was at one of these 59 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: dinners in New York in the late nineteen sixties and 60 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: started clearing people's plates, and one of the guests, who 61 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: was also a woman, is my understanding, turned to her 62 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: and said, baroness, if you touch my plate, I will 63 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: break your arm. I'm like that, I would like to 64 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 1: think that would be me, but I don't know. Yeah, 65 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: but just like, I mean, you have openly described yourself 66 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: as food aggressive. I am food aggressive, So I really 67 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: would break her arm. But I just like, I cannot 68 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: imagine if that happened to me, If that happened to 69 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: someone else and I saw it, I think I would 70 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: lose my mind, like, no, it's not your job or 71 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: your your place to be taking people food? What like? 72 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: What are ough? And then I really I will I 73 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: will say this. So I think I have mentioned before 74 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 1: on the show that when I was much younger in 75 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: my twenties and working at a hair salon, we had 76 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: a client, a regular that came in every week to 77 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: get her shampoo, sett who was mean as a snake. 78 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: She was mean to me, she was mean to her hairstylist, 79 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 1: she was mean to everyone. She was just really kurt 80 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 1: and brusque and unkind. And I remember thinking like, damn, 81 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: you are unpleasant. And then one day she was paying 82 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 1: and I saw the numbers tattooed on her wrists, and 83 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: after that I was like, you can be as mean 84 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: as you want, like you've been through it. All, I don't. 85 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 1: I will never judge you again. And I kind of 86 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: felt that way researching tamoraw like, I understand you went 87 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 1: through this big watershed moment where you lost everything, like 88 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: the life you thought you were building for yourself got 89 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: ripped out from under you. But Dad, it's like a 90 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: she's she's getting later on in her life and she's 91 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: doing things like telling her daughter she should be visiting 92 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: her instead of caring for her husband, who is a 93 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: cancer treatment. I'm like, oh, no, you are actually kind 94 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: of a monster, right, My forgiveness has worn out on you. 95 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: I can't. I don't have it anymore. Yeah, like Grace 96 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: has been siphoned, I don't. It's a wild one. Yeah. 97 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 1: She did, incidentally, not leave her house in Cornovaca to 98 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: her daughter. She sold it very cheaply to one of 99 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: her close friends before she died because she, I guess, 100 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: just wanted to be spiteful. There is a lot of 101 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: the accounts of the end of her life. She definitely 102 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: sounds like someone who recognizes that she is out of 103 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 1: step with a changing world, and her reaction is to 104 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: become very spiteful and angry about all of it. Right, 105 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: Please don't let that happen to me, Please, please please. 106 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: I already feel out of step with the world half 107 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: the time anyway, so hopefully that transition won't be too anyway. 108 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: I love her art. It is, Yeah, it is very striking. 109 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: I love it. I mean, that's good art. I am 110 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: really really kicking myself that I can't make it out 111 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: to the de Youong in time to see it before 112 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: they take it down, because it is a really extremely 113 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: comprehensive look at her whole life as an artist. I 114 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: did buy their big book that they published their I mean, 115 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: calling it a catalog feels like a lie because it's 116 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: really a big, beautiful art book. But I won't get 117 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: to see it in person and umbummed. But Kristin, I 118 00:07:49,440 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: hope this was everything you want it. We talked about 119 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: Isaac Pittman and his shorthand this week. Yep. He is 120 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: a delightful and fascinating creature to me. 121 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 2: Uh huh. 122 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: One of the things that I learned about him in 123 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: one of the biographies that I looked at was that 124 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: he was one of those people who had learned a 125 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: lot of things because he read them in books, but 126 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: he didn't know how to actually say them. Oh sure, 127 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: and he realized this when he was still pretty young, 128 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: that he was kind of talking about things that he 129 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: knew a lot about, but he didn't sound as smart 130 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: as he was because he was saying them incorrectly, and 131 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: so he made a very concerted effort to try to 132 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: correct that, and as a consequence, he apparently had very 133 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: distinctively enunciated and good speech like Okay, he was kind 134 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: of the perfect person to develop a phonetic writing system, 135 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: as he was so focused on how words sounded because 136 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: he had made such a study of it, which is 137 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: pretty interesting. One of the things we did not talk 138 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: about was how a big part of why his method 139 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: took off was because of his relationship with Bagster. Okay, 140 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,079 Speaker 1: and I read one quote that pretty nicely sums it up, 141 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: which is that, as has been more than once pointed out, 142 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: the success of the method was without doubt greatly promoted 143 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: by the fact that it was issued by the eminent 144 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: Bible publisher whose name was a guarantee that it was 145 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: of a meritorious kind and not of a catchpenny nature. 146 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: So basically, like the biggest and most respected Bible publisher 147 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,319 Speaker 1: in Britain at the time putting out this phonetic system. 148 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: Book made people go, well, it must be good because 149 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 1: it must be fine. Bagster did it, and they don't 150 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: do even though had they known that, like thirteen year 151 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: olds sewed it together in a schoolroom, he might feel differently. Yeah. 152 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: I also found a really cute poem that Bagster wrote 153 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: about Isaac Pittman's work. It's four lines. It's super cute, 154 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 1: which is artists and scribes no more delight their arts imperfect. 155 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: Found Dagair now draws by rays of Lights, and Pittman 156 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: writes by sound. I love that he was likening him 157 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:34,239 Speaker 1: to Dagaer in terms of like how important his invention was. Yeah, 158 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: which was pretty great. 159 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. 160 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 1: His biography by his brother Ben is really interesting because Ben, 161 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: like a brother, clearly adored Isaac, but also does not 162 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: always pull punches about talking about him, and he notes 163 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: at one point he was somewhat deficient in esthetic taste. 164 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: That's funny, and he was like people always thought my 165 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: brother had really good taste, but it's because his first wife, 166 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: Mary was wealthy and had good taste, and so she 167 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,319 Speaker 1: had bought all of these nice things, and even after 168 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: she died, he still had like these amazing pieces of 169 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: furniture in his house and it was all because of that. Okay, 170 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: it's time to talk about the intrigue, Okay, and this 171 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: is also thanks to Ben. Ben, And I'm trying to 172 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 1: remember I should have written this down. I don't remember 173 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: if it's one of their sisters or one of the 174 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: brother's wives. Discovered at one point a cash of letters, 175 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: and they are very clearly love letters between Isaac and 176 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 1: a woman whose name starts with EM but was apparently 177 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: not his wife, Mary. And though these were apparently being 178 00:11:54,960 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: written while he was married to Mary, and that these 179 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: two members of the family had seen them, knew what 180 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: was up. You know, not necessarily that there was any 181 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 1: sort of like physical relationship or anything, but clearly these 182 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: were two people that felt very emotionally romantically attached to 183 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: one another. And so when Isaac married Isabella, they were like, 184 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: what because we thought after Mary died, you were going 185 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: to marry this other lady who you clearly loved and 186 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: loved you back, like, why are you not marrying her? 187 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: And we don't know, but this was apparently a family 188 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: intrigue that no one ever asked him outright, like no 189 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 1: one ever said to him, Hey, we know you're actually 190 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: in love with somebody else, and no one ever asked him, hey, 191 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: why didn't you marry that woman that you clearly were 192 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: in love with. Yeah, but they waited till after he 193 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: died and put it in his biography. Yeah, that's very 194 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: carefully written. I want to say, it's not written in 195 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 1: a scandalous way. It's more like a we have always wondered. Clearly, 196 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: he had very strong and ardent feelings for this person, 197 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: and it seemed reciprocated, and we just don't know why 198 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: those two didn't make a go of it. So presumably 199 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: she was available, right because otherwise, I mean, this was 200 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: not a family that was going to be living the 201 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: tomorrow Olimpica, like I will just have I'll just be 202 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 1: with people. I'm not married too, So we don't know. 203 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: But that's the intrigue that I stumbled across very late 204 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,439 Speaker 1: in the game. And we do know that it was 205 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: a woman, yes okay, yes, like they knew who she was. 206 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: Oh okay, okay. Her name is withheld in the biography 207 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: to not scandalize her. I understand I had interpreted what 208 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: you were saying, is like we weren't actually sure who 209 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: the letters No they knew, but we don't. Okay, they 210 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: kept that a secret. Yes, I see, in the interest 211 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: of propriety, they invoked no one's name, but they all 212 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: apparently liked this woman and knew her fascinating and didn't 213 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: understand why he didn't marry her. 214 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's interesting. 215 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: This is definitely a case where one of the few 216 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: things I did not get a feel for him about 217 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: was his married life. To either of his wives. He 218 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: seems like he was a you know, certainly a dedicated husband, 219 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: but his work kind of came first. He worked really 220 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: long hours, Like we mentioned during the episode, that he 221 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: would rather work for free on these correspondence lessons he 222 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: was giving than let somebody else charge for them. And 223 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: I still don't know if this is a case where 224 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: he just thought that kind of information and help should 225 00:14:55,960 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: be free, or if he really was like, no, you 226 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: will mess it up. I am the arbiter of these things, 227 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: or if there's something else in play. It's a little unclear. Yeah, 228 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: but he's very fascinating to me. Yeah, it was a 229 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: very busy beat. I love that note that he wrote 230 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: to the minister at the end of his life. I 231 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: just tell everybody was peaceful. I'm fine, I've made peace 232 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: with it. And all of the accounts that I have 233 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: read by people that knew him support that, like he wasn't. 234 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: They were like, well, you knew he was dying, but 235 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: he was very pragmatic about it, and was just kind 236 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: of like, Okay, I'm gonna enjoy the time I have left, 237 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: and when the moment happens, it happens. I'll just do 238 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: my best while I got it. And he was, you know, 239 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: certain he was going on to and afterlife, so he 240 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: really did just see it as a transition. Just such 241 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: a beautiful way to look at it, and he seemed 242 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: so calm about the whole thing. I'm like, hmm, yeah, 243 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: can I borrow that? That sounds great? Yeah, anyway, Isaac Pittman, 244 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: you know, perhaps we'll do an episode on Greg later 245 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: and his version of stenography. Maybe. Any did you grow 246 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: up with anybody in your house using shorthand? No? No, 247 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: it was something that I knew about from like novels 248 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: and gotcha, something in my head that I thought would 249 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: be useful for me to know because when I was 250 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: a kid, when it was time to learn to write, 251 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: I could not tell you what hand I used. To 252 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: like color with or whatever. But when it came time 253 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: to learn to write, and the teacher was like, put 254 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: the pencil in the hand where it feels most comfortable. 255 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know what you are talking about. Oh, 256 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: this is a weird foreign object that feels bad in 257 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: both hands. Yeah, So I just imitated my classmates and 258 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: started writing with my right hand. Gotcha. And I've always 259 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: wondered if that was right, because writing was laborious, and 260 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: it has always been laborious and it continues to be laborious. 261 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: And then I had to learn cursive and that was laborious, 262 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,959 Speaker 1: and it just like writing with a pencil or a 263 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: pen was so time consuming and difficult that I would 264 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 1: hear about this system called shorthand, and you can see 265 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: it and it really just looks like little sketches and 266 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:23,199 Speaker 1: like not things that look as complicated as letters in 267 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: a lot of cases, like the symbols can be really simplified. 268 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:27,959 Speaker 1: And I was like, man, if I knew how to 269 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: do that, this whole writing thing would be so much easier. 270 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,959 Speaker 1: It turns out, though, the thing that really was a 271 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: help was learning to touch type in high school, in 272 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: which I took a typing class literally in preparation to 273 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: be writing papers in college. And while I initially learned 274 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: to do this by looking at my fingers, at some 275 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: point it clicked of how to do it by touch, 276 00:17:55,960 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: and I've always typed monumentally faster than writing. Yeah, I 277 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: mean that the typewriter is often cited as one of 278 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: the things that you know, led to the drop off 279 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 1: in stenography being used it for a long time. It 280 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: became kind of associated with things like secretarial work or 281 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: court reporting times when you need to be keeping and 282 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: maintaining a written record of things. People say that's as 283 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: accurate as possible, but it's interesting. I think the most 284 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: recent one that I read where I saw this in 285 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: the comments was an article from two thousand and nine, 286 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: which is now sixteen years ago. Not possible, but this 287 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: article was talking about a recent book that had been 288 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: written that talked about how nobody used stenography anymore because 289 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: you know, we have typewriters and we have electronic media, 290 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: and there are a million other ways that you could 291 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: do it. And there was somebody in the comments that 292 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: was like, my work for a law firm, we still 293 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: use it, and I was like, WHOA. I wouldn't have 294 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: thought even that late that that was still going on. 295 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: And I presume it's still happening in places today. I'll 296 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:12,400 Speaker 1: ask a couple of lawyer friends and see what they 297 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: say about it. Yeah, there are always some old school 298 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: people in any office, so right, right, well, And it's 299 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: also some of this is just you know, kind of vibes. 300 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: But if you are interviewing a person, especially if you're 301 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 1: interviewing a person about something that is painful or difficult 302 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: or sensitive, it can feel like you have a more 303 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: human connection with them if you are, you know, sitting 304 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 1: at a table or something and somebody has a pen 305 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: and paper instead of being separated by a laptop and 306 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: a screen. And so I can see there being kind 307 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: of a value in somebody that's like doing a lot 308 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: of interviewing or whatever, taking their notes in shorthand rather 309 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 1: than typing them. Yeah, I mean, I feel like for me, 310 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to default to a recorder then, like I'll 311 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,400 Speaker 1: just put my iPhone on the table or something. Sure, 312 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: but I think that is a good point. But you know, 313 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:22,679 Speaker 1: Mina Harker knew how to write in shorthand. I have 314 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 1: so many questions now for Bram Stoker. I want to 315 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: go back and be like, were you just fascinated with 316 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: short hand? And I mean, if you're going by his 317 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:36,199 Speaker 1: novel right eighteen ninety seven, not everyone knew it, and 318 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: Mina specifically had to seek it out and learn it 319 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: so that she could be helpful, right right, And even 320 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: very educated people didn't always know it. So it's interesting. 321 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,719 Speaker 1: I would love to see statistics, and I did. I 322 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: searched around and didn't find any. I imagine for the 323 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: obvious reason of like, this isn't necessarily something that was recorded. 324 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: Was like, how many people at very points in time 325 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 1: have learned and are using shorthand, whether professionally or personally. 326 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 1: But so much of it is personal. It's not like 327 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: people are like there's a sensus of do you no shorthand? 328 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: But I would love that data if we could ever 329 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: get it. So m hmm, there's part of me that 330 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: wants to learn it just for the weirdness of it 331 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,959 Speaker 1: at this point. Yeah, but also I have stuff to do, 332 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: going to go so instead. Probably so that is Isaac Pittman, 333 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: who just fascinated me and kind of charmed me, even 334 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: though I think probably he would think I was a 335 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: little too raucous as a human being and drank way 336 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:46,120 Speaker 1: too much because I drink it all. But I do 337 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,719 Speaker 1: like that he, you know, was like, it turns out 338 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: I can't kill animals, and if I can't kill animals, 339 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 1: should be eating animals, So I'm going to be a vegetarian. 340 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 1: I really love that. It's very sweet, Isaac Pittman. I 341 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: hope that if you have any work to do this weekend, 342 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: that someone has deviced the system that makes it faster 343 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: and easier for you. If you have time off, I 344 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: hope that you get to relax in whatever way makes 345 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: you delighted and gives you some relaxation and helps you 346 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: connect to the world in a way that's meaningful and 347 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:23,919 Speaker 1: helpful to your heart and your mind. We will be 348 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: right back here tomorrow with a classic episode, and then 349 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: on Monday we will have a brand new one. Stuff 350 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: you Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. 351 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 352 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.