WEBVTT - I Am a Colorless Bishop

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<v Speaker 1>So daddie is one of those words in cape Verdian

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<v Speaker 1>creole that doesn't have a direct English translation. Roughly, it

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<v Speaker 1>means missing someone or something, but it's deeper than that.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a longing that feels more like a whole, like

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<v Speaker 1>a part of your soul is gone. There are many

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<v Speaker 1>songs written about this, the most famous, of course, being

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<v Speaker 1>by Sesadia Avora, the queen of cape Verdian music. Anyone

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<v Speaker 1>can have this feeling of sodad, but for those of

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<v Speaker 1>us in the cape Verdian diaspora, it takes on a

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<v Speaker 1>very specific meaning because no matter where you live now

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<v Speaker 1>or where you were born, all cape Verdians have this

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<v Speaker 1>nostalgic feeling. It's a yearning to be in capleverd or

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<v Speaker 1>to be with the people who have left, or with

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<v Speaker 1>who you've left behind. I'm cape Verdian and on my

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<v Speaker 1>dad's side, he has a huge family, but for simplicity's sake,

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<v Speaker 1>they're two branches, the Graces and the Dapinas. My great grandfather,

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<v Speaker 1>Manuel Grace immigrated to America around the same time as

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<v Speaker 1>Daddy Grace, which was the beginning of the twentieth century.

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<v Speaker 1>I never met him. He died long before I was born,

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<v Speaker 1>but I did know my dad's mother, Lydia Grace Depina,

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<v Speaker 1>and his father, Jonathan Depina Senior, who I called Papa.

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<v Speaker 1>I adored him. He and my Nana often took care

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<v Speaker 1>of me when my parents were working, and I spent

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<v Speaker 1>hours with them, happily tagging along behind Papa when he

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<v Speaker 1>bent his chickens or helping Nana plant perfect rows of beans,

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<v Speaker 1>cal and carrots. I still remember Papa saying to Kenya,

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<v Speaker 1>the most important thing in this country is to have

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<v Speaker 1>your own land and to pass it on to your children.

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<v Speaker 1>I was a curious child, and one of my favorite

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<v Speaker 1>things to do with him was to take long walks

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<v Speaker 1>and ask him questions about his life back in Cablevere.

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<v Speaker 1>He came to the US when he was six on

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<v Speaker 1>a schooner named the Volante. I loved hearing about his

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<v Speaker 1>childhood back in Cablevert the way the mountains of Fontana's

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<v Speaker 1>always sat shrouded in clouds, or the beauty of the

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<v Speaker 1>flowers and the people. Listening to these stories made me

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<v Speaker 1>feel transported, my own imagination filling in the gaps of

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<v Speaker 1>what his life had been like. To me, Cableverd was

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<v Speaker 1>a place of wonder, a place I felt so connected to,

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<v Speaker 1>a place I could not wait to experience myself. But

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<v Speaker 1>within all of that, what I most remember was a

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<v Speaker 1>feeling of my papa's mixed emotions, because within his stories

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<v Speaker 1>about life on Bravo, I heard a tinge of sadness

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<v Speaker 1>in his voice. And when I'd asked my Papa if

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<v Speaker 1>he missed Cablvert and if he wanted to go back,

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<v Speaker 1>he'd look at me and say, for what, I'm mercy

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<v Speaker 1>to Pena and from iHeart podcasts enforce the media group,

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<v Speaker 1>this is sweet, Daddy, Grace.

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<v Speaker 2>You're glad, you're being happy.

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<v Speaker 1>Bow, thank, You're glad.

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<v Speaker 3>Ahead and they laugh against happy brown and crying, we're.

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<v Speaker 4>O b ing.

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<v Speaker 1>Daddy immigrated to the United States from Kabovid, just like

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<v Speaker 1>my grandfather. It was a country that both then and now,

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<v Speaker 1>not many Americans outside the diaspora know much about. But

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<v Speaker 1>to get to know Bishop Grace, you have to know

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<v Speaker 1>where he came from. The Kapoveti Islands are located about

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<v Speaker 1>three hundred and fifty miles off the coast of Senegal

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<v Speaker 1>in the Atlantic Ocean. In Portuguese, Kabovid means green cape,

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<v Speaker 1>which is quite a bit of a misnomer, as the

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<v Speaker 1>country is not particularly green. The islands are situated in

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<v Speaker 1>the crossroads of two of the driest trade winds in

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<v Speaker 1>the world, so there is very little rain, and several

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<v Speaker 1>of the islands are basically deserts. Capplevedy is made up

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<v Speaker 1>of ten islands, nine of which are inhabited, and while

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<v Speaker 1>they are proudly connected as one country, each is a

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<v Speaker 1>little different. Each speaks its own dialect of Creole, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>and the cultures are a little different too. The people

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<v Speaker 1>of Santiago, the largest island, are known for the music

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<v Speaker 1>of batucu, a form of drumming and dancing that is

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<v Speaker 1>primarily done by women. Sanvicentz is known for its carnival,

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<v Speaker 1>but it is also deeply influenced by the British, who

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<v Speaker 1>used the island as a coal refueling station in the

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<v Speaker 1>early eighteen hundreds. Embravo, where my family is from, is

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<v Speaker 1>the smallest island, known for its hospitality nationally revered poet

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<v Speaker 1>Eugenio Tavars, as well as its waterfalls and flowers. We

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<v Speaker 1>are most united, perhaps by the fact that at its

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<v Speaker 1>very essence, to be Cape Verdean means to have roots

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<v Speaker 1>from around the globe, because before Portuguese explorers landed there

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<v Speaker 1>in the mid fifteenth century, the Caboverti Islands were actually uninhabited,

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<v Speaker 1>and as was the case during this time period, the

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<v Speaker 1>Portuguese government was interested in two things, producing sugar and

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<v Speaker 1>enslaving Africans to do it. But the land was so

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<v Speaker 1>dry the sugar crops failed, and the Portuguese realized that

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<v Speaker 1>their new colony was actually much more useful as a

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<v Speaker 1>port in their slave trade, which was quickly expanding. Many

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<v Speaker 1>Africans brought to Kabulvid were sent on slave ships to

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<v Speaker 1>the Americas, but many also stayed. Some were enslaved to

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<v Speaker 1>work for Portuguese landholders, and others escaped into the mountains

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<v Speaker 1>where they formed their own communities, which still exists today.

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<v Speaker 1>So Cape Verdean Creole culture developed. As these populations African

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<v Speaker 1>European Middle Eastern intermingled to become something very much its own. Economically, however,

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<v Speaker 1>Kablevid was turning into a tough acquisition for the Portuguese.

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<v Speaker 1>After around a century of colonization, the land could no

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<v Speaker 1>longer grow much like the indigo they had used to

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<v Speaker 1>trade for enslaved Africans, and by the late eighteen hundreds,

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<v Speaker 1>the slave trade itself had ended, so the colonizers abandoned

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<v Speaker 1>the islands and left the people of Kabove to fend

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<v Speaker 1>for themselves. Many people suffered horribly. They were literally dying

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<v Speaker 1>of starvation and dehydration. The islands experienced chronic droughts, where

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes fifty percent of the population would die. Many Cape

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<v Speaker 1>Verdians were forced to leave, trying to make whatever money

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<v Speaker 1>they could to send back home to feed their families.

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<v Speaker 1>Many never returned. The main way out was on railing ships.

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<v Speaker 1>The eighteen hundreds were at height of the whaling industry,

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<v Speaker 1>and Cape Verdians played a big part as crews on

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<v Speaker 1>the American owned boats. They were known for their courage, work, ethic,

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<v Speaker 1>and maritime skills. Remember Moby Dick. It was published in

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen fifty one and one of the harpooners on board

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<v Speaker 1>Dago is thought to be Cape Verdian. But eventually the

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<v Speaker 1>work dried up.

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<v Speaker 5>When whaling went into decline in the United States, was

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<v Speaker 5>harder to get young Yankees to serve as crew on

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<v Speaker 5>whaling vessels.

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<v Speaker 1>That's my stepmom. Marilyn Halter again, scholar of Cape Verdian

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<v Speaker 1>American history and professor emerita at Boston University.

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<v Speaker 5>So when they would stop in the Cape Verde Islands.

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<v Speaker 5>By the late nineteenth century, they were eager to find

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<v Speaker 5>people to man these ships.

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<v Speaker 1>Cape Verdian men bought old whaling boats, prepared and started

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<v Speaker 1>what was called the packet trade. Now Cape Verdian owned

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<v Speaker 1>and operated ships would crisscross the Atlantic, bringing supplies from

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<v Speaker 1>the United States back to Cobblevid and bringing immigrants to

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<v Speaker 1>New Bedford, Massachusetts and Providence, Rhode Island. Because of this,

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<v Speaker 1>the first voluntary African immigrants to America were Cape Verdeans.

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<v Speaker 1>This ended up giving them an advantage when they arrived,

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<v Speaker 1>they still had community.

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<v Speaker 5>Really, unlike any immigrant group, white or black, they were

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<v Speaker 5>the only population to actually have control over their means

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<v Speaker 5>of passage to this country. And when you contrast that

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<v Speaker 5>with the other African immigrants who came here involuntarily, the

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<v Speaker 5>slave population, who had absolutely no control over anything in

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<v Speaker 5>their lives. There was a lot of cultural and community support.

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<v Speaker 1>Part of that support meant access to work, though often

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<v Speaker 1>the kind of jobs available were the ones no one

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<v Speaker 1>else wanted.

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<v Speaker 5>There was such a racial and ethnic hierarchy that the

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<v Speaker 5>only jobs for them was at the lowest rung of

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<v Speaker 5>the ladder, so the Irish got the best jobs, and

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<v Speaker 5>then the Portuguese and the French Canadians, and then you know,

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<v Speaker 5>Cape Verdians were at the bottom of the ladder. There

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<v Speaker 5>was work at the stack textile mills, on the Cranberry brogs,

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<v Speaker 5>and in maritime related occupations such as longshoremen and cooks

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<v Speaker 5>and other kinds of dock workers.

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<v Speaker 1>Details are scarce about Daddy Grace's immigration story to the US.

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<v Speaker 1>We know he had come over from the island of

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<v Speaker 1>Brava and landed in New Bedford in nineteen oh four

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<v Speaker 1>on a ship called the Louisa. His parents and at

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<v Speaker 1>least seven siblings were already there waiting for him. The

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<v Speaker 1>New Bedford Evening Standard wrote about the Louisa's arrival. It

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<v Speaker 1>mentioned one passenger who looked quote every inch a dude

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<v Speaker 1>with his trousers carefully pressed in an immaculate shirt front.

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<v Speaker 1>I'd like to hope that was our Marcellino. I get

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<v Speaker 1>the feeling he always stood out. He first made his

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<v Speaker 1>living in America, like basically all Cape Verdian immigrants did,

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<v Speaker 1>working various jobs. He picked Cranberry's in the bogs, a

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<v Speaker 1>job he apparently hated so much he threw down his

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<v Speaker 1>wheelbarrow and quit. He also sold patent medicines, ran a

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<v Speaker 1>grocery store, and worked as a cook in a local

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<v Speaker 1>restaurant and later on on the railways. My own great grandfather,

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<v Speaker 1>Manuel Grace, the one and I never met, arrived in

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<v Speaker 1>the United States around the same time as Daddy Grace,

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<v Speaker 1>and in some ways their stories were similar, including the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that they were both from Brava and both named Grace.

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<v Speaker 6>The way it was explained to me by Uncle Abel

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<v Speaker 6>was that he found out that his father was being promiscuous.

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<v Speaker 1>That's my cousin Jonathan. Again from what Jonathan has been told.

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<v Speaker 1>Our great grandfather, who everyone called Nola Locke, left Kabovid

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<v Speaker 1>when he was just seventeen years old.

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<v Speaker 6>He had told his mother before he had left and

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<v Speaker 6>gone to school, and I guess during the day she

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<v Speaker 6>confronted him when he was coming home that his father

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<v Speaker 6>was pitching rocks at him, telling him, don't come back

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<v Speaker 6>here no more. One of the times that he was hit,

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<v Speaker 6>he was hitting the head and then he went down

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<v Speaker 6>where there was a whaler stocking up, and that was

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<v Speaker 6>his first time that he had left home.

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<v Speaker 1>My aunt Judy Jonathan's mother picks up the story from there.

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<v Speaker 1>He had no money.

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<v Speaker 4>He came on a whaling ship working and his destination

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<v Speaker 4>was the United States. However, he jumped ship in Bermuda

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<v Speaker 4>and worked on a sugar plantation there to earn money

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<v Speaker 4>to continue to travel. Sailed around South America and went

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<v Speaker 4>to Hawaii, and then he went to San Francisco. He

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<v Speaker 4>was there during the nineteen oh six Great Earthquake.

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<v Speaker 1>After the earthquake, my great grandfather got a job on

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<v Speaker 1>the railroads and made his way east across the country.

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<v Speaker 1>His final destination a small seaside town outside New Bedford

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<v Speaker 1>called Mattapoisa, where he had family nearby. Life there suited him.

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<v Speaker 1>He got a job doing manual labor and soon saved

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<v Speaker 1>enough money to buy a small pig farm and a house.

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<v Speaker 1>He was around forty old for a bachelor those days,

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<v Speaker 1>and was ready to settle down.

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<v Speaker 3>Then.

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<v Speaker 4>He was not a young man, and I believed that

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<v Speaker 4>he had an arranged marriage with a Cape Fridian woman

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<v Speaker 4>from Brava.

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<v Speaker 1>With just a horse and buggy, he started a small

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<v Speaker 1>business collecting trash in the neighborhood, and he eventually won

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<v Speaker 1>a contract with the town But when I asked my

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<v Speaker 1>aunt to describe Nola Lock for me, she mostly talked

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<v Speaker 1>about his spirituality, and he was very, very.

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<v Speaker 4>Much into his religion. In our dining room, we had

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<v Speaker 4>a large farmhouse kitchen and we always ate there. I

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<v Speaker 4>don't ever recall eating in the dining room, but what

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<v Speaker 4>I do remember is that was where my grandfather had

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<v Speaker 4>his Bible, and that he sat there and read the Bible.

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<v Speaker 2>So food wasn't.

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<v Speaker 4>Served there, but the Word of God was served there.

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<v Speaker 1>My aunt Judy stories got me thinking about how similar

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<v Speaker 1>Nola Lock and Daddy Grace's lives must have been in America,

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<v Speaker 1>At least at first. They worked the same blue collar

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<v Speaker 1>jobs that all Cape Verdians did. They went to the

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<v Speaker 1>same shops. They both married Cape Verdian women and started families.

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<v Speaker 1>But where we related. I started asking other family members

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<v Speaker 1>what they knew or who I should talk to. One

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<v Speaker 1>person told me that years before Daddy Grace founded the

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<v Speaker 1>United House of Prayer, he would sometimes preach at the

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<v Speaker 1>church that Nola Loc attended, the Portuguese Pentecostal church on

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<v Speaker 1>Cape Cod pastored by Joseph de Grace, Daddy Grace's elder brother,

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<v Speaker 1>and that in the early days. They enjoyed discussing the

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<v Speaker 1>Bible together when Daddy Grace would visit Nola Lock's house.

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<v Speaker 1>Nola Lock's house the one he bought with the trash

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<v Speaker 1>collection earnings. It yielded another clue. I was on ancestry

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<v Speaker 1>dot Com looking through some old census records from the

0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.960
<v Speaker 1>nineteen twenties and thirties. The house that Nola Lock owned

0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:58.520
<v Speaker 1>it was right next to a house owned by Caesar Grace,

0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:02.960
<v Speaker 1>Daddy Grace's older brother. I had heard their families were close,

0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:07.640
<v Speaker 1>that Caesar's daughter and Nola Locke's daughter my Nana called

0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:12.080
<v Speaker 1>each other Prima's cousins. This in itself didn't prove anything.

0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:15.680
<v Speaker 1>It's customary for Kate Burdian's to call each other family,

0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:20.280
<v Speaker 1>even if the relationship isn't blood. I still call my parents'

0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.800
<v Speaker 1>friends TiO and Tia. But it did help explain what

0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:28.200
<v Speaker 1>happened later. When Daddy Grace asked Nola Lock's daughter my

0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:31.360
<v Speaker 1>Nana to go out on the road with him as

0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.040
<v Speaker 1>part of his church that man.

0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:37.000
<v Speaker 7>Showed up on the farm thinking he could talk to

0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:40.480
<v Speaker 7>your grandmother. My father would have no part of it,

0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:44.520
<v Speaker 7>and then he would go into speaking creole where he

0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:48.760
<v Speaker 7>would say, showing him the axe and saying, you know

0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:52.480
<v Speaker 7>this is the axe, I'll sharpen it on your head.

0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.400
<v Speaker 1>Daddy Grace would have been in his mid forties, and

0:16:56.520 --> 0:17:00.360
<v Speaker 1>here he was asking Nola Lock's teenage daughter to leave

0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:04.680
<v Speaker 1>home and join his church and travel with him unaccompanied,

0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:10.480
<v Speaker 1>without even asking permission from her father. Daddy Grace had

0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:14.119
<v Speaker 1>to have known that this was not appropriate behavior and

0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:18.920
<v Speaker 1>something Nola Lock would not have liked. No wonder Nola

0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:22.840
<v Speaker 1>Lock was so enraged he threatened Daddy Grace with an axe.

0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:31.160
<v Speaker 1>I've spent a lot of time thinking about this. Why

0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:36.800
<v Speaker 1>Nola Lock in Daddy Grace's lives diverged? Why are families diverged?

0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:42.320
<v Speaker 1>My great grandfather he was a conservative man. After having

0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:46.800
<v Speaker 1>spent years disconnected from his own family, traveling around the globe,

0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:50.560
<v Speaker 1>working and searching for a home, he was happy to

0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:55.879
<v Speaker 1>stay in Massachusetts, working his farm, running his businesses, raising

0:17:55.960 --> 0:18:00.960
<v Speaker 1>his children, and living a stable, if modest life. In contrast,

0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:05.000
<v Speaker 1>Daddy Grace was always looking outward, far from New Bedford.

0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:08.399
<v Speaker 1>He didn't seem interested in settling into the role of

0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:11.720
<v Speaker 1>a family man. He had a burning desire to spread

0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:16.399
<v Speaker 1>the gospel far and wide. In nineteen twelve, after just

0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:19.280
<v Speaker 1>a few years of marriage, he left his wife and

0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:22.640
<v Speaker 1>two young children, hit the road and traveled the country

0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:28.480
<v Speaker 1>and the world, refining his evangelical message. The decisions he

0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:32.560
<v Speaker 1>made his life must have seemed truly wild to my

0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:36.560
<v Speaker 1>great grandfather. Daddy Grace had his own style, and it

0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:41.480
<v Speaker 1>wasn't traditional. It was flamboyant. His hair was long, he

0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:45.080
<v Speaker 1>wore colorful clothes, and he wasn't afraid to show off

0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:49.040
<v Speaker 1>his success. I'm sure that got people talking and that

0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:53.600
<v Speaker 1>he quickly realized that he was outgrowing New Bedford. I

0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:58.160
<v Speaker 1>can relate. Growing up in New Bedford. I always felt different. Yeah,

0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:00.640
<v Speaker 1>I hung out on the beach and participate in all

0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:04.120
<v Speaker 1>the traditional Cape Verdian activities, but I would also skip

0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:06.280
<v Speaker 1>school and take the bus to New York City for

0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:10.280
<v Speaker 1>the day to shop and discover the latest music and fashions.

0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:13.240
<v Speaker 1>By this time I got to high school, I knew

0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:16.760
<v Speaker 1>that if I wanted to do anything creative, I need

0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:20.359
<v Speaker 1>to leave. I needed to explore outside of the fish

0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:24.240
<v Speaker 1>bowl of the Cape Verdian American community. Like Daddy Grace,

0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:30.639
<v Speaker 1>I needed to find my place in the world among

0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:34.280
<v Speaker 1>the many pieces of Daddy Grace. Material I've collected is

0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:38.240
<v Speaker 1>a copy of his nineteen fourteen Declaration of intention to

0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:43.480
<v Speaker 1>become an American citizen. I've studied it trying to understand

0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:47.240
<v Speaker 1>more about this man from the few details listed, like,

0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:50.520
<v Speaker 1>for example, how at the time he was employed as

0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:54.320
<v Speaker 1>a cook, that he renounced any allegiance to the Republic

0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:58.200
<v Speaker 1>of Portugal, that he was thirty one, five foot eight

0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:01.680
<v Speaker 1>and one hundred and sixty six pounds, that his skin

0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:04.840
<v Speaker 1>color was black, but that he had a light complexion.

0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:10.000
<v Speaker 1>Knowing how complicated identity can be for Cape Verdians in America,

0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:14.359
<v Speaker 1>this last part was especially interesting to me. How Daddy

0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:18.040
<v Speaker 1>Grace viewed himself was a big source of controversy around

0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:21.960
<v Speaker 1>him at the time, something both black and white Americans

0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:26.240
<v Speaker 1>had trouble wrapping their heads around. In nineteen fifty two,

0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:29.480
<v Speaker 1>Daddy Grace was featured in a piece in Ebony magazine.

0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:33.200
<v Speaker 1>He told the writer, I am not a Negro. I

0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:36.840
<v Speaker 1>am white by race. But he also tells the same reporter,

0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:41.560
<v Speaker 1>I am a colorless bishop. Sometimes I'm black, sometimes I'm white.

0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:46.360
<v Speaker 1>I preach to all races. I wonder what Ebony readers,

0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:49.720
<v Speaker 1>who were predominantly black would have made of this statement.

0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:53.280
<v Speaker 1>Did Daddy Grace think that by claiming to be white

0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:56.360
<v Speaker 1>that would take him further? Was he a race denier

0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:00.000
<v Speaker 1>or did he just understand the power of a life

0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:04.240
<v Speaker 1>little controversy. I can understand why people might have thought

0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:07.880
<v Speaker 1>that when they heard that quote. There were Cape Verdians who,

0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:12.400
<v Speaker 1>thanks to colonialism, were brainwashed to believe that they were Portuguese.

0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:15.680
<v Speaker 1>And of course many of us do have Portuguese blood.

0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:19.600
<v Speaker 1>But I don't think that's what Daddy Grace meant. Daddy

0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:23.520
<v Speaker 1>Grace did not consider himself a black American. He considered

0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:28.440
<v Speaker 1>himself Cape Verdian because Kabalvid was still a colony of Portugal.

0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:33.560
<v Speaker 1>Daddy Grace came to America on a Portuguese passport, but

0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:37.359
<v Speaker 1>he didn't look like how Americans thought a Portuguese man looked.

0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:41.880
<v Speaker 1>He didn't look white, he didn't look European. He had

0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:45.560
<v Speaker 1>curly hair, light brown skin, and he was always dressed

0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:48.400
<v Speaker 1>to the nines with a three piece suit, a ten

0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:52.960
<v Speaker 1>gallon hat and his jewels. He also spoke with an accent,

0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:57.480
<v Speaker 1>which further confused how others perceived him. And because of that,

0:21:58.119 --> 0:22:02.520
<v Speaker 1>I think he was misunderstood by temporary Americans whose own

0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:08.520
<v Speaker 1>views of race didn't allow much room for nuance. Throughout

0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:13.399
<v Speaker 1>his time in America, Daddy Grace's racial categorization changed based

0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:17.840
<v Speaker 1>on whoever was filling out the paperwork. Immigration listed him

0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:22.800
<v Speaker 1>as black African from Portugal on his nineteen oh four arrival.

0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:27.280
<v Speaker 1>On the nineteen ten census, he was listed as Mulatto,

0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:32.040
<v Speaker 1>but his nineteen eighteen draft card says Negro, and his

0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:37.439
<v Speaker 1>nineteen thirty two marriage license lists him as Caucasian. No wonder,

0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:41.160
<v Speaker 1>Daddy Grace said he was colorless. He saw right through

0:22:41.280 --> 0:22:45.520
<v Speaker 1>the absurdity of the system and perhaps saw the opportunity

0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:51.119
<v Speaker 1>to define himself on his own terms. This seemingly arbitrary

0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:56.760
<v Speaker 1>racial categorization imposed by other people was actually quite common,

0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:01.600
<v Speaker 1>and so wrestling with identity race was something that he

0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:06.040
<v Speaker 1>and all Cape Verdian immigrants were very familiar with. These

0:23:06.119 --> 0:23:10.320
<v Speaker 1>immigrants were escaping a system of white supremacy and colonialism

0:23:10.800 --> 0:23:14.320
<v Speaker 1>only to arrive in America and see how Black Americans

0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:18.920
<v Speaker 1>were being violently oppressed through racist Jim Crow laws in

0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:22.879
<v Speaker 1>the horrific terror of lynching, and the people doing the

0:23:22.960 --> 0:23:26.360
<v Speaker 1>lynching didn't care about where you were born or how

0:23:26.400 --> 0:23:30.320
<v Speaker 1>you identified In August of nineteen twenty one, it was

0:23:30.440 --> 0:23:35.119
<v Speaker 1>reported that a mob threatened to lynch three quote Cape

0:23:35.240 --> 0:23:39.560
<v Speaker 1>verd Island negroes on Cape cod who had been charged

0:23:39.840 --> 0:23:43.119
<v Speaker 1>with a criminal assault on a white woman. This was

0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:45.760
<v Speaker 1>the world they needed to figure out how to position

0:23:45.880 --> 0:23:49.680
<v Speaker 1>themselves in to survive and to thrive.

0:23:51.840 --> 0:23:55.320
<v Speaker 5>They were arriving at the height of racial misgenation and

0:23:56.359 --> 0:23:58.640
<v Speaker 5>de facto segregation in this country.

0:23:59.359 --> 0:24:02.720
<v Speaker 1>That's Marilyn and again, nobody had.

0:24:03.520 --> 0:24:07.800
<v Speaker 5>Any interest in recognizing them as Cape Verdians as a

0:24:07.920 --> 0:24:11.280
<v Speaker 5>separate identity. All they saw was black or white, and

0:24:11.440 --> 0:24:18.080
<v Speaker 5>so they were treated with the same level of discrimination, prejudice,

0:24:18.240 --> 0:24:22.639
<v Speaker 5>and hostility as African Americans or other people of color

0:24:22.720 --> 0:24:23.439
<v Speaker 5>in this country.

0:24:25.160 --> 0:24:29.000
<v Speaker 1>Other Americans didn't understand Cape Verdians in our rich multi

0:24:29.080 --> 0:24:32.920
<v Speaker 1>ethnic identities. What island you were from, what type of

0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:36.639
<v Speaker 1>creole you spoke, what's your family name? That was what

0:24:36.880 --> 0:24:39.920
<v Speaker 1>was discussed, not just your skin color.

0:24:40.640 --> 0:24:46.480
<v Speaker 5>It was so uncomfortable, even oppressive for Cape Verdeans to

0:24:46.800 --> 0:24:53.600
<v Speaker 5>arrive here and just being categorized by other people in

0:24:53.760 --> 0:24:58.879
<v Speaker 5>ways that weren't even recognizable to themselves, let alone to

0:24:59.000 --> 0:25:01.680
<v Speaker 5>the rest of society. And it's a kind of a

0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:03.600
<v Speaker 5>rature of who you are.

0:25:04.960 --> 0:25:08.520
<v Speaker 1>This still feels true to me, a third generation Cape

0:25:08.600 --> 0:25:11.879
<v Speaker 1>Ritian American. Where do you actually fit in?

0:25:13.040 --> 0:25:19.119
<v Speaker 5>Daddy Grace, in his interview in Ebony magazine, said, I

0:25:19.280 --> 0:25:23.840
<v Speaker 5>am a colorless man. I am a colorless bishop. And

0:25:24.000 --> 0:25:29.200
<v Speaker 5>to me, that's like just so Cape Ridian. He's enhancing

0:25:29.359 --> 0:25:33.960
<v Speaker 5>his black side and his white side, and he's bringing

0:25:33.960 --> 0:25:39.119
<v Speaker 5>it all together. I think that Cape Verdeans were actually

0:25:39.280 --> 0:25:45.720
<v Speaker 5>pioneers of how to navigate the waters of American pluralism.

0:25:46.280 --> 0:25:52.959
<v Speaker 5>They've challenged these notions of race, color, ethnicity, and identity

0:25:53.680 --> 0:25:58.439
<v Speaker 5>well before anyone else, any other population in this country

0:25:58.720 --> 0:25:59.359
<v Speaker 5>that I know of.

0:26:01.800 --> 0:26:05.800
<v Speaker 8>So basically, the intentionality behind why folks would choose to

0:26:05.840 --> 0:26:09.720
<v Speaker 8>call themselves cape Verdian but then not claiming black as

0:26:09.760 --> 0:26:13.720
<v Speaker 8>a race or saying that they are Portuguese. Why is that?

0:26:14.280 --> 0:26:17.280
<v Speaker 8>Is it because of the desire to have proximity to

0:26:17.400 --> 0:26:21.720
<v Speaker 8>whiteness or wanting to hold on to white supremacist ideals.

0:26:22.400 --> 0:26:26.240
<v Speaker 8>So I always talk about intentionality as it relates to

0:26:26.359 --> 0:26:27.879
<v Speaker 8>identity of our people.

0:26:28.760 --> 0:26:32.760
<v Speaker 1>Doctor terzel Minev's is a professor of political science at

0:26:32.840 --> 0:26:38.359
<v Speaker 1>Johnson C. Smith University in Charlotte, North Carolina, and because

0:26:38.440 --> 0:26:42.320
<v Speaker 1>she's also a Cape Verdian immigrant herself. She can give

0:26:42.400 --> 0:26:47.640
<v Speaker 1>context to the struggle Cape Verdian's face around identity in America.

0:26:48.359 --> 0:26:54.120
<v Speaker 8>I think that it's an intergenerational conversation controversy or our

0:26:54.200 --> 0:26:58.480
<v Speaker 8>ancestors who arrived here in the late eighteen hundreds or

0:26:58.800 --> 0:27:05.080
<v Speaker 8>early nineteen hundreds and beyond, where segregation racism was just,

0:27:05.480 --> 0:27:09.200
<v Speaker 8>you know, the dominant conversation. Of course, you're going to

0:27:09.400 --> 0:27:14.880
<v Speaker 8>try to separate yourself from the Black American community because

0:27:15.119 --> 0:27:17.879
<v Speaker 8>of this notion. You see how Black Americans are being

0:27:17.960 --> 0:27:23.000
<v Speaker 8>treated and you're trying to distance yourself from that. But

0:27:23.240 --> 0:27:26.480
<v Speaker 8>then you know you're not white, and the other white

0:27:27.119 --> 0:27:30.359
<v Speaker 8>groups don't see you as being white. Not quite Black

0:27:30.400 --> 0:27:35.640
<v Speaker 8>American by choice and by force, but you're not Portuguese

0:27:36.400 --> 0:27:39.359
<v Speaker 8>or white. So then you stick to what you know

0:27:39.840 --> 0:27:42.280
<v Speaker 8>and you begin to rely on each other. And so

0:27:42.440 --> 0:27:45.119
<v Speaker 8>that's not to say it's wrong or right, it's just

0:27:45.720 --> 0:27:46.360
<v Speaker 8>what happened.

0:27:48.280 --> 0:27:50.960
<v Speaker 1>Times have changed since Daddy Grace and other elders came

0:27:51.000 --> 0:27:55.600
<v Speaker 1>to the United States, and Tarsa experienced the transformation of

0:27:55.680 --> 0:28:00.119
<v Speaker 1>her own identity within the racial construct of America. She

0:28:00.240 --> 0:28:02.920
<v Speaker 1>says much of this was thanks to the professors and

0:28:03.080 --> 0:28:07.000
<v Speaker 1>peers she was surrounded by at Clark Atlanta University.

0:28:07.920 --> 0:28:11.160
<v Speaker 8>I'm very specific about saying that I'm a Black African woman.

0:28:11.960 --> 0:28:15.120
<v Speaker 8>That's how I see myself, and that is all due

0:28:15.200 --> 0:28:19.400
<v Speaker 8>to the socialization and the education that I received. Most

0:28:19.440 --> 0:28:22.360
<v Speaker 8>of the professors were black, but there were a very

0:28:22.440 --> 0:28:25.200
<v Speaker 8>diverse group of black people from the United States and

0:28:25.280 --> 0:28:27.960
<v Speaker 8>also from many of different places in the diaspora and

0:28:28.119 --> 0:28:31.440
<v Speaker 8>the continent of Africa as well. All through those years,

0:28:31.520 --> 0:28:34.119
<v Speaker 8>I was able to be grounded in what I wanted

0:28:34.200 --> 0:28:35.480
<v Speaker 8>my identity to look like.

0:28:36.359 --> 0:28:39.000
<v Speaker 1>I was born here in the United States, and I've

0:28:39.160 --> 0:28:42.680
<v Speaker 1>always identified as a black woman, but I also see

0:28:42.720 --> 0:28:45.960
<v Speaker 1>myself very much as a Cape Verdian woman. By the

0:28:46.040 --> 0:28:50.120
<v Speaker 1>time we got to my generation, Cape Verdian Americans had

0:28:50.320 --> 0:28:54.480
<v Speaker 1>experienced a century of oppression in the United States and

0:28:54.680 --> 0:28:59.600
<v Speaker 1>had been fighting alongside black and African diaspora Americans for

0:28:59.680 --> 0:29:04.160
<v Speaker 1>a dis dis mantling of structural racism. And I grew

0:29:04.240 --> 0:29:07.280
<v Speaker 1>up in the hip hop generation, where principles like pan

0:29:07.400 --> 0:29:11.040
<v Speaker 1>Africanism and knowledge of self led me to discover my

0:29:11.160 --> 0:29:15.920
<v Speaker 1>ancestral roots, unravel the heinous system of the Afro Atlantic

0:29:16.000 --> 0:29:20.800
<v Speaker 1>slave trade, and explore the deep connection of those entangled

0:29:20.960 --> 0:29:25.920
<v Speaker 1>in it. But identity is complicated. As soon as you

0:29:26.040 --> 0:29:30.040
<v Speaker 1>define what it means to you, society and people in

0:29:30.200 --> 0:29:35.040
<v Speaker 1>general impose their perception of you onto you. So there's

0:29:35.120 --> 0:29:40.320
<v Speaker 1>this kind of internal and external negotiation of determining exactly

0:29:40.360 --> 0:29:44.560
<v Speaker 1>who you are. It's a never ending cycle that starts

0:29:44.600 --> 0:29:52.040
<v Speaker 1>with the question what are you. I took my first

0:29:52.120 --> 0:29:55.200
<v Speaker 1>trip to Cubovid in two thousand and five, and since

0:29:55.280 --> 0:30:00.200
<v Speaker 1>then I've been back many times, spending time there seeing

0:30:00.240 --> 0:30:04.240
<v Speaker 1>the things my papa talked about in Parson, understanding a

0:30:04.360 --> 0:30:07.640
<v Speaker 1>bit deeper how hard it must have been for my

0:30:07.800 --> 0:30:10.840
<v Speaker 1>ancestors to leave their home and try to have a

0:30:10.920 --> 0:30:14.080
<v Speaker 1>better life. All of that has helped me to figure

0:30:14.120 --> 0:30:17.000
<v Speaker 1>out who I am in a way I never could

0:30:17.480 --> 0:30:21.840
<v Speaker 1>in the United States. Cabovid feels like home to me,

0:30:22.560 --> 0:30:25.560
<v Speaker 1>but I was born and raised in America. So when

0:30:25.600 --> 0:30:29.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm in Caubovid, my style, my accent, and many of

0:30:29.560 --> 0:30:32.680
<v Speaker 1>the ways in which I operate make me stand out.

0:30:33.280 --> 0:30:36.960
<v Speaker 1>So that question what are you? I can't escape it.

0:30:37.120 --> 0:30:42.320
<v Speaker 1>In Kapovedi, either Cape Verdeans in Cabalvid see me as

0:30:42.400 --> 0:30:45.360
<v Speaker 1>their American cousin. They see me as someone who is

0:30:45.520 --> 0:30:49.560
<v Speaker 1>not native to the islands. They call me things like Portuguez,

0:30:50.000 --> 0:30:52.720
<v Speaker 1>or laugh at me when I spoke Creole because it

0:30:52.840 --> 0:30:56.760
<v Speaker 1>gets mixed up with Portuguese, which I also speak. Or

0:30:56.880 --> 0:30:59.280
<v Speaker 1>they would even call me white girl. But I'm Kenya

0:30:59.520 --> 0:31:03.320
<v Speaker 1>because I am light skinned. But here's the thing. Cape

0:31:03.400 --> 0:31:07.360
<v Speaker 1>Verdian's born in Kabulvid may not have these same issues

0:31:07.560 --> 0:31:11.160
<v Speaker 1>in the Islands, but just like Daddy Grace, as soon

0:31:11.240 --> 0:31:14.960
<v Speaker 1>as they leave, their own identities are also questioned.

0:31:16.200 --> 0:31:19.880
<v Speaker 9>So I am cape Verdian. I was raised here in Praya,

0:31:20.040 --> 0:31:23.960
<v Speaker 9>cabu Verdi. My family everyone is cave Verdian.

0:31:24.760 --> 0:31:29.200
<v Speaker 1>That's Simone Spencer. She's an artist and educator. I talked

0:31:29.240 --> 0:31:32.200
<v Speaker 1>with her in Praya when I was there last. Talking

0:31:32.280 --> 0:31:35.280
<v Speaker 1>with Simon helped me unpack some of the feelings that

0:31:35.360 --> 0:31:38.600
<v Speaker 1>I had about identity, race and perception.

0:31:39.400 --> 0:31:43.040
<v Speaker 9>When you are hearing Kabu Verdi, you identify yourself as

0:31:43.320 --> 0:31:47.560
<v Speaker 9>cape Verdian, not as black or white. You only feel

0:31:47.600 --> 0:31:52.240
<v Speaker 9>the need to identify as either black or white once

0:31:52.280 --> 0:31:56.480
<v Speaker 9>you move out. I went to study in China and

0:31:56.800 --> 0:32:02.040
<v Speaker 9>that's when the identity thing came to me. Cave Verdin

0:32:02.200 --> 0:32:08.000
<v Speaker 9>is such a small country in the whole world that

0:32:08.520 --> 0:32:11.320
<v Speaker 9>when you go abroad, people don't even know about the country.

0:32:12.440 --> 0:32:14.720
<v Speaker 1>So just being Cape Verdian was not enough.

0:32:15.280 --> 0:32:18.320
<v Speaker 9>I had very, very very short hair, and because my

0:32:18.440 --> 0:32:22.400
<v Speaker 9>eyes are a bit slented, people would think I'm a

0:32:22.600 --> 0:32:26.440
<v Speaker 9>Chinese from the south and my name is Simone Spencer.

0:32:27.240 --> 0:32:32.840
<v Speaker 9>It's like an Irish surname, and I'm like, definitely not Irish.

0:32:33.720 --> 0:32:36.240
<v Speaker 1>I have very curly hair and my skin is not

0:32:36.400 --> 0:32:42.040
<v Speaker 1>white at all. Why you have an Irish surname. It's colonialism,

0:32:42.120 --> 0:32:43.520
<v Speaker 1>by the way. It's colonialism.

0:32:43.960 --> 0:32:48.440
<v Speaker 9>So then it's where the real searching for an identity came.

0:32:50.840 --> 0:32:54.120
<v Speaker 1>I can relate to this. Living in the Cape Verdian

0:32:54.160 --> 0:32:56.800
<v Speaker 1>bubble of New Bedford, no one ever thought that I

0:32:56.960 --> 0:33:00.320
<v Speaker 1>was anything but Cape Verdian. I mean, I went to

0:33:00.400 --> 0:33:03.240
<v Speaker 1>school with a gang of cousins. We all know each

0:33:03.280 --> 0:33:05.880
<v Speaker 1>other's families, and we all went to the same Cape

0:33:05.960 --> 0:33:10.160
<v Speaker 1>Verdian clubs. But after I left home, I got a

0:33:10.240 --> 0:33:13.960
<v Speaker 1>lot of confused expressions about my last name to Pina

0:33:14.880 --> 0:33:18.719
<v Speaker 1>and the way I looked. In New York City, everyone

0:33:18.800 --> 0:33:21.240
<v Speaker 1>spoke to me in Spanish and assumed I was Puerto

0:33:21.320 --> 0:33:25.640
<v Speaker 1>Rican or Dominican. I got that question again, what are you.

0:33:26.720 --> 0:33:30.600
<v Speaker 1>Anyone who's ever been asked us before knows how aggravating

0:33:30.680 --> 0:33:34.080
<v Speaker 1>it can be, especially because in my case, a lot

0:33:34.160 --> 0:33:38.240
<v Speaker 1>of people have never even heard of Kabovad. But there's

0:33:38.440 --> 0:33:44.040
<v Speaker 1>also something powerful and not being easily defined. Simoni feels

0:33:44.080 --> 0:33:44.440
<v Speaker 1>this too.

0:33:45.840 --> 0:33:52.360
<v Speaker 9>It's something you can't describe. It's complicated. It's like being

0:33:52.440 --> 0:33:57.880
<v Speaker 9>the perfect spy. Yeah, because you are so ambiguous. It's

0:33:58.080 --> 0:34:04.160
<v Speaker 9>being everything and nothing, because you'll come from everywhere, but

0:34:04.720 --> 0:34:09.319
<v Speaker 9>it's nothing because on the world stage, almost nobody ever

0:34:09.400 --> 0:34:09.800
<v Speaker 9>heard of you.

0:34:12.719 --> 0:34:15.719
<v Speaker 1>During one of my most recent trips to Kaboved I

0:34:15.880 --> 0:34:19.600
<v Speaker 1>tried to track down my ancestral records and Daddy Grace

0:34:19.719 --> 0:34:23.400
<v Speaker 1>is too. Maybe this would help me understand more about

0:34:23.440 --> 0:34:27.240
<v Speaker 1>where we both came from and either confirm or deny

0:34:27.719 --> 0:34:31.320
<v Speaker 1>that there is a blood relation. I visited the National

0:34:31.480 --> 0:34:35.120
<v Speaker 1>Archives in the capital city Praya, certain they could help,

0:34:36.000 --> 0:34:39.120
<v Speaker 1>but once I actually got inside, I ran into one

0:34:39.280 --> 0:34:44.640
<v Speaker 1>bureaucratic roadblock after another trying to access any records. They

0:34:44.719 --> 0:34:48.120
<v Speaker 1>took my email address, but I'm still waiting for information.

0:34:49.320 --> 0:34:52.080
<v Speaker 1>I was also hoping to finally make it to Brava,

0:34:52.600 --> 0:34:55.600
<v Speaker 1>the island where my ancestors and Daddy Grace are from

0:34:56.480 --> 0:34:59.640
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to see the place where my family called home,

0:35:00.600 --> 0:35:03.600
<v Speaker 1>and I wanted to visit the Catholic Church, which is

0:35:03.760 --> 0:35:08.040
<v Speaker 1>known for keeping reliable baptism records. I thought that would

0:35:08.200 --> 0:35:12.560
<v Speaker 1>definitely help me to confirm my family's history. But getting

0:35:12.600 --> 0:35:18.520
<v Speaker 1>to Brava is difficult, really difficult. It's the smallest of

0:35:18.600 --> 0:35:24.080
<v Speaker 1>the populated islands, with only around five thousand people. There

0:35:24.160 --> 0:35:27.560
<v Speaker 1>is no airport. You have to take a boat, and

0:35:27.800 --> 0:35:31.880
<v Speaker 1>the boats, for one reason or another, are often canceled.

0:35:32.800 --> 0:35:35.640
<v Speaker 1>This happens a lot. The same thing happened to me

0:35:35.760 --> 0:35:38.240
<v Speaker 1>the last three times I tried to make the journey.

0:35:38.920 --> 0:35:42.120
<v Speaker 1>So I'm trying to figure out options. Standing at the

0:35:42.160 --> 0:35:45.480
<v Speaker 1>travel agency and a room full of people all clamoring

0:35:45.600 --> 0:35:48.600
<v Speaker 1>and trying to get to Brava, and my friend says

0:35:48.640 --> 0:35:51.359
<v Speaker 1>to me, what are you doing. You're an American girl,

0:35:51.760 --> 0:35:53.400
<v Speaker 1>You have an American passport.

0:35:54.120 --> 0:35:54.400
<v Speaker 7>Use it.

0:35:55.000 --> 0:35:58.000
<v Speaker 1>You can use that passport to get you first in line,

0:35:58.760 --> 0:36:02.360
<v Speaker 1>and not just shook me. Because here I am with

0:36:02.480 --> 0:36:05.880
<v Speaker 1>people who've been waiting to get home for days, some

0:36:06.160 --> 0:36:09.800
<v Speaker 1>for weeks. This one is sick, this one's waiting to

0:36:09.880 --> 0:36:13.880
<v Speaker 1>bring money home, this one's bringing food. These are people

0:36:13.960 --> 0:36:18.560
<v Speaker 1>with real struggles, real issues, and I'm dealing with first

0:36:18.600 --> 0:36:23.120
<v Speaker 1>world problems. The average Cape Verdian salary is around one

0:36:23.239 --> 0:36:28.120
<v Speaker 1>hundred and fifty dollars a month, making it economically impossible

0:36:28.680 --> 0:36:33.560
<v Speaker 1>for people to survive without remittances from relatives that are overseas,

0:36:34.640 --> 0:36:38.279
<v Speaker 1>and one hundred plus years after my ancestors fled, it's

0:36:38.360 --> 0:36:42.080
<v Speaker 1>still easier for a Cape Verdian to travel abroad than

0:36:42.160 --> 0:36:47.120
<v Speaker 1>to find reliable and safe into island transit to Brava.

0:36:48.360 --> 0:36:50.840
<v Speaker 1>Not until that moment did I ever think of myself

0:36:50.880 --> 0:36:55.960
<v Speaker 1>as privileged. I grew up poor on welfare, eating government

0:36:56.080 --> 0:37:00.839
<v Speaker 1>cheese and powdered milk. My mother worked nights a latchkey kid,

0:37:01.400 --> 0:37:03.680
<v Speaker 1>but my mother didn't have to get on a flight

0:37:03.840 --> 0:37:07.080
<v Speaker 1>or a boat to come home or immigrate to find

0:37:07.160 --> 0:37:10.759
<v Speaker 1>work in Praia. Not only did I feel the sting

0:37:10.840 --> 0:37:15.080
<v Speaker 1>of privilege, but I also felt survivor's guilt. Because my

0:37:15.360 --> 0:37:20.640
<v Speaker 1>ancestors sacrificed so much, I had opportunities and access to

0:37:20.760 --> 0:37:25.320
<v Speaker 1>resources that most people in Kabovid can only dream of.

0:37:26.560 --> 0:37:30.200
<v Speaker 1>I never did get to Brava. I felt like a failure,

0:37:31.480 --> 0:37:35.560
<v Speaker 1>like I let my ancestors down, but also my team

0:37:35.640 --> 0:37:39.440
<v Speaker 1>back in New York. I had traveled across the Atlantic

0:37:40.120 --> 0:37:43.000
<v Speaker 1>and had failed to find any new information on not

0:37:43.160 --> 0:37:48.040
<v Speaker 1>only my family but Daddy Grace. I was no closer

0:37:48.480 --> 0:37:57.000
<v Speaker 1>to proving or disproving my relation to him. After I

0:37:57.080 --> 0:37:59.799
<v Speaker 1>got back to the States, I couldn't stop thinking about

0:37:59.800 --> 0:38:03.200
<v Speaker 1>my trip and everything that I had brought up. I

0:38:03.400 --> 0:38:06.759
<v Speaker 1>was searching for answers, but came back with more questions.

0:38:07.560 --> 0:38:11.400
<v Speaker 1>I still didn't have the origin story, my origin story,

0:38:12.040 --> 0:38:16.280
<v Speaker 1>or Daddy Grace's. I sat down with my friend Darryl Stewart,

0:38:16.680 --> 0:38:19.800
<v Speaker 1>who's also a producer on this show, to help me

0:38:20.120 --> 0:38:23.680
<v Speaker 1>unpack some of the deep feelings that came up from

0:38:23.719 --> 0:38:29.000
<v Speaker 1>me about race, identity and how people's roots and stories

0:38:29.400 --> 0:38:31.680
<v Speaker 1>get lost over the generations.

0:38:32.600 --> 0:38:38.239
<v Speaker 10>So I'm Black American, identify as Black American, and unfortunately

0:38:38.360 --> 0:38:41.360
<v Speaker 10>for me, we can only trace our ancestry back. But

0:38:41.520 --> 0:38:46.600
<v Speaker 10>so far we know that our ancestors were from the

0:38:46.640 --> 0:38:49.920
<v Speaker 10>Geechee Island area, that they were slaves brought in off

0:38:50.000 --> 0:38:51.640
<v Speaker 10>of the coast of Carolinas.

0:38:51.920 --> 0:38:52.879
<v Speaker 1>But that's pretty much.

0:38:53.400 --> 0:38:55.880
<v Speaker 10>Oh, we know. Can you talk a little bit about

0:38:56.680 --> 0:38:58.640
<v Speaker 10>connecting to your ancestry?

0:38:59.360 --> 0:38:59.960
<v Speaker 7>How was that shit?

0:39:00.360 --> 0:39:04.399
<v Speaker 1>How you see the world today living in a place

0:39:04.480 --> 0:39:07.080
<v Speaker 1>like New Bedford, where most of the black people are

0:39:07.400 --> 0:39:11.520
<v Speaker 1>Cape Verdian. I didn't think about it as much when

0:39:11.560 --> 0:39:15.239
<v Speaker 1>I lived there, because you know, I was among everybody's

0:39:15.320 --> 0:39:18.560
<v Speaker 1>pretty much the same. It wasn't until I moved out

0:39:18.800 --> 0:39:22.960
<v Speaker 1>of the area that I started to have more questions

0:39:23.000 --> 0:39:26.760
<v Speaker 1>about my identity, or at the very least, have questions

0:39:26.800 --> 0:39:29.520
<v Speaker 1>about how other people perceived me, because when I was

0:39:29.560 --> 0:39:32.359
<v Speaker 1>growing up, there were never any questions. Nobody ever was like, oh,

0:39:32.520 --> 0:39:36.800
<v Speaker 1>are you mixed? So yes, being Cape Verdian I quickly

0:39:36.880 --> 0:39:39.880
<v Speaker 1>realized was a big part of my identity, right, and

0:39:40.000 --> 0:39:44.279
<v Speaker 1>that is something that's different from being Black American and

0:39:44.440 --> 0:39:46.960
<v Speaker 1>you're having what you can trace of your ancestral roots here.

0:39:47.680 --> 0:39:52.000
<v Speaker 1>But upon a further investigation of what it means to

0:39:52.080 --> 0:39:54.880
<v Speaker 1>be Cape Verdian, you know, you quickly realize that I

0:39:54.960 --> 0:39:59.200
<v Speaker 1>can only go back so far to trace my family lineage. Like, yes,

0:39:59.600 --> 0:40:04.319
<v Speaker 1>we from a place that is in Africa and has

0:40:04.480 --> 0:40:08.200
<v Speaker 1>its own cultural identity, its own language. But Cape Verdians

0:40:08.239 --> 0:40:11.280
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't even exist if it wasn't from the slave trade,

0:40:11.719 --> 0:40:16.720
<v Speaker 1>so we cannot trace our ancestral roots either.

0:40:17.719 --> 0:40:22.480
<v Speaker 10>Do you think that's where Daddy Grace struggled with his identity.

0:40:23.120 --> 0:40:24.000
<v Speaker 10>What do you think about that.

0:40:25.680 --> 0:40:29.759
<v Speaker 1>I do think that Daddy Grace was an outcast within

0:40:29.840 --> 0:40:31.080
<v Speaker 1>the Cape Verdian community.

0:40:31.960 --> 0:40:32.160
<v Speaker 2>Why.

0:40:33.120 --> 0:40:36.000
<v Speaker 1>I think he was rejected because I think Kate Verdians

0:40:36.040 --> 0:40:42.840
<v Speaker 1>felt he was too audacious, not humble, just ostentatious with

0:40:42.960 --> 0:40:46.880
<v Speaker 1>the display of his money. I think also some of

0:40:47.040 --> 0:40:51.120
<v Speaker 1>his ways in which he operated people were, you know,

0:40:51.239 --> 0:40:55.319
<v Speaker 1>really questioned, like the fact that he was surrounded by

0:40:55.360 --> 0:40:59.239
<v Speaker 1>a lot of attendants. He didn't give conservative cape Verdian man.

0:40:59.400 --> 0:41:05.759
<v Speaker 1>He gave flamboyant, unapologetic I'm gonna be me and you

0:41:05.880 --> 0:41:08.520
<v Speaker 1>were going to recognize that I am a very wealthy

0:41:08.640 --> 0:41:11.560
<v Speaker 1>man and I'm not gonna hide at I think that

0:41:12.000 --> 0:41:15.279
<v Speaker 1>he had to have struggled with that. I think that

0:41:15.560 --> 0:41:18.799
<v Speaker 1>even if outwardly he might never have said, like, oh,

0:41:18.880 --> 0:41:21.400
<v Speaker 1>I feel rejected by the Cape Verdian community. And it

0:41:21.480 --> 0:41:23.880
<v Speaker 1>wasn't just the Cape Verdian community. He was rejected by

0:41:23.920 --> 0:41:27.319
<v Speaker 1>the black community too, and he was obviously rejected by

0:41:27.320 --> 0:41:30.680
<v Speaker 1>the white community. So I think he had to have

0:41:30.960 --> 0:41:36.840
<v Speaker 1>had an unshakeable belief in himself. He really felt that

0:41:37.080 --> 0:41:40.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm here to spread God's word. This is my mission.

0:41:40.600 --> 0:41:43.040
<v Speaker 1>He even says in some of his teachings that he

0:41:43.160 --> 0:41:45.560
<v Speaker 1>was just being persecuted the same way Jesus was.

0:41:46.360 --> 0:41:48.080
<v Speaker 2>And you know what, shout out to my mother.

0:41:48.239 --> 0:41:49.239
<v Speaker 1>She used to say that too.

0:41:49.920 --> 0:41:52.040
<v Speaker 10>She used to say, I don't know why you kids

0:41:52.080 --> 0:41:55.080
<v Speaker 10>are so concerned about what other people think because they

0:41:55.160 --> 0:41:56.080
<v Speaker 10>talked about Jesus.

0:41:56.320 --> 0:41:59.000
<v Speaker 1>So guess what people are going to talk about you too.

0:42:00.160 --> 0:42:01.080
<v Speaker 10>Move into your purpose.

0:42:01.920 --> 0:42:03.439
<v Speaker 1>That's exactly what Daddy Gray said.

0:42:04.080 --> 0:42:06.440
<v Speaker 10>There is another side to this right where people are like,

0:42:06.880 --> 0:42:11.239
<v Speaker 10>I'm successful, I made it, my bills are paid, my

0:42:11.400 --> 0:42:15.760
<v Speaker 10>life is wonderful. You know, fuck everybody who who doesn't

0:42:16.080 --> 0:42:18.719
<v Speaker 10>like me or who didn't support me, etc. This is

0:42:18.800 --> 0:42:22.319
<v Speaker 10>my time to shine. But I think it gets complicated

0:42:22.560 --> 0:42:26.440
<v Speaker 10>for us, right, people of color. So much of our

0:42:26.640 --> 0:42:33.640
<v Speaker 10>identity is steeped in family and community, right, and we do,

0:42:33.960 --> 0:42:37.120
<v Speaker 10>many of us in some ways, we don't feel fulfilled

0:42:37.680 --> 0:42:42.080
<v Speaker 10>until we have the co sign right of family, of community,

0:42:42.440 --> 0:42:48.120
<v Speaker 10>of et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So this is

0:42:48.200 --> 0:42:49.680
<v Speaker 10>my final question for you.

0:42:50.680 --> 0:42:55.640
<v Speaker 1>What does your Cape Verdean heritage mean to you? That's

0:42:55.680 --> 0:43:02.800
<v Speaker 1>a serious question, Darryl, so serious a question that I

0:43:02.880 --> 0:43:06.560
<v Speaker 1>couldn't give Darryl a concise answer. But I kept coming

0:43:06.680 --> 0:43:10.200
<v Speaker 1>back to those days spent with my grandparents, learning about

0:43:10.200 --> 0:43:13.240
<v Speaker 1>the ways of the old country, tending to the garden

0:43:13.360 --> 0:43:16.680
<v Speaker 1>and the animals, Sitting around the table with my extended

0:43:16.760 --> 0:43:21.320
<v Speaker 1>family as they laughed, playing cards for pennies and telling stories.

0:43:22.840 --> 0:43:25.919
<v Speaker 1>I thought about the feeling of Sodi and how Cape

0:43:26.000 --> 0:43:30.680
<v Speaker 1>Verdeans in the diaspora are always longing for home, and

0:43:30.800 --> 0:43:35.239
<v Speaker 1>how those in Kabulvid are always yearning to be reunited

0:43:35.560 --> 0:43:39.239
<v Speaker 1>with their loved ones spread across the globe. I also

0:43:39.360 --> 0:43:42.640
<v Speaker 1>kept coming back to what Simoni had said about being

0:43:42.680 --> 0:43:47.839
<v Speaker 1>a spy. Cape Verdians have a unique way of blending it. Oftentimes,

0:43:48.000 --> 0:43:51.279
<v Speaker 1>unless someone comes out and says it, you won't even

0:43:51.400 --> 0:43:54.840
<v Speaker 1>know that their roots are in cabol Vid. People like

0:43:55.040 --> 0:44:00.719
<v Speaker 1>actors Michael Beach and Anika Nanni Rose, or Congressmen Haki Jeffries,

0:44:01.440 --> 0:44:06.520
<v Speaker 1>or jazz musicians Horace Silver and Paul Gonzalves, the disco

0:44:06.640 --> 0:44:12.960
<v Speaker 1>group the Tavars and rapper coy lay over the generations.

0:44:13.280 --> 0:44:18.360
<v Speaker 1>Our identity merges with Black Americans, although we never forget

0:44:18.600 --> 0:44:22.680
<v Speaker 1>our Cape Verdian heritage. And then, of course, I thought

0:44:22.719 --> 0:44:26.680
<v Speaker 1>about Daddy Grace. Daddy Grace was a citizen of the world.

0:44:27.719 --> 0:44:31.160
<v Speaker 1>He didn't see himself in the same racial construct that

0:44:31.320 --> 0:44:35.520
<v Speaker 1>we see ourselves here in America. Plus, as a man

0:44:35.640 --> 0:44:38.440
<v Speaker 1>of God, he knew race didn't mean a thing when

0:44:38.520 --> 0:44:42.880
<v Speaker 1>it comes to being saved. Right before his death, Daddy

0:44:42.920 --> 0:44:47.640
<v Speaker 1>Grace recorded a live sermon. There's this section I especially

0:44:47.920 --> 0:44:51.320
<v Speaker 1>like where he gives us clues about how he saw himself.

0:44:55.800 --> 0:45:00.719
<v Speaker 2>And I'm on my way, however, and I'm there now,

0:45:04.520 --> 0:45:11.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm every aware, no where I am now, I'm everywhere

0:45:12.120 --> 0:45:25.080
<v Speaker 2>right now. Don't you say, God, He's everywhere. I'm everywhere.

0:45:29.440 --> 0:45:36.000
<v Speaker 2>All you gotta do think of me, love me.

0:45:38.160 --> 0:45:39.400
<v Speaker 7>Ready is to go with me.

0:45:40.880 --> 0:45:41.560
<v Speaker 3>Where I am.

0:45:41.680 --> 0:45:42.320
<v Speaker 7>You there.

0:45:44.000 --> 0:45:48.480
<v Speaker 1>And the people, well, they were ready to go with him.

0:45:49.600 --> 0:45:55.360
<v Speaker 1>That's next time. Sweet Daddy Grace is a production of

0:45:55.480 --> 0:45:59.800
<v Speaker 1>iHeart Podcasts Enforce, a media group. This show is hosted

0:45:59.840 --> 0:46:03.880
<v Speaker 1>by by me Marcy de Pina. It's written and produced

0:46:04.000 --> 0:46:08.760
<v Speaker 1>by Marissa Brown and Me. Our story editors are Darryl Stewart,

0:46:09.200 --> 0:46:14.000
<v Speaker 1>Duncan Riedel, and Zarren Burnett. Editing, sound design and theme

0:46:14.080 --> 0:46:20.200
<v Speaker 1>music by Jonathan Washington. Original music by Enrique Silva of

0:46:20.320 --> 0:46:26.160
<v Speaker 1>Acasia Mayor. Show cover art by Viviana Salgado of Studio

0:46:26.360 --> 0:46:32.680
<v Speaker 1>Creative Group, fact checking by Austin Thompson. Our executive producers

0:46:33.040 --> 0:46:38.560
<v Speaker 1>are Marcy Depina and Jason English. Special Thanks to Will Pearson,

0:46:38.960 --> 0:46:44.880
<v Speaker 1>Nikki Ettore, Ali Perry, Tamika Campbell, and Lulu Phillip of iHeartMedia,

0:46:45.520 --> 0:46:48.160
<v Speaker 1>and all of my family members who talked to me

0:46:48.280 --> 0:46:52.359
<v Speaker 1>for this show, my ancestors, the United House of Prayer

0:46:52.440 --> 0:46:56.080
<v Speaker 1>for All People, and the countless number of people who

0:46:56.160 --> 0:46:59.879
<v Speaker 1>shared their memories of Sweet Daddy Grace with me. Thanks

0:47:00.120 --> 0:47:03.800
<v Speaker 1>also to doctor Marie Dollum and doctor Danielle brun Sigler,

0:47:04.200 --> 0:47:08.400
<v Speaker 1>whose academic work on Sweet Daddy Grace has been incredibly helpful.

0:47:09.480 --> 0:47:12.600
<v Speaker 1>And finally, I want to thank Bishop Grace himself for

0:47:12.760 --> 0:47:17.560
<v Speaker 1>choosing me to tell his story. For more information on

0:47:17.719 --> 0:47:21.760
<v Speaker 1>Bishop Charles M. Grace, check out the website Sweet Daddy

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<v Speaker 1>Grace and follow me at Marcy Depina on all social

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<v Speaker 1>platforms