1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: So daddie is one of those words in cape Verdian 2 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:11,399 Speaker 1: creole that doesn't have a direct English translation. Roughly, it 3 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: means missing someone or something, but it's deeper than that. 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: It's a longing that feels more like a whole, like 5 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: a part of your soul is gone. There are many 6 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: songs written about this, the most famous, of course, being 7 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: by Sesadia Avora, the queen of cape Verdian music. Anyone 8 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: can have this feeling of sodad, but for those of 9 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: us in the cape Verdian diaspora, it takes on a 10 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: very specific meaning because no matter where you live now 11 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: or where you were born, all cape Verdians have this 12 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: nostalgic feeling. It's a yearning to be in capleverd or 13 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: to be with the people who have left, or with 14 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: who you've left behind. I'm cape Verdian and on my 15 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: dad's side, he has a huge family, but for simplicity's sake, 16 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: they're two branches, the Graces and the Dapinas. My great grandfather, 17 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: Manuel Grace immigrated to America around the same time as 18 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: Daddy Grace, which was the beginning of the twentieth century. 19 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: I never met him. He died long before I was born, 20 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: but I did know my dad's mother, Lydia Grace Depina, 21 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 1: and his father, Jonathan Depina Senior, who I called Papa. 22 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: I adored him. He and my Nana often took care 23 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: of me when my parents were working, and I spent 24 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: hours with them, happily tagging along behind Papa when he 25 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: bent his chickens or helping Nana plant perfect rows of beans, 26 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: cal and carrots. I still remember Papa saying to Kenya, 27 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: the most important thing in this country is to have 28 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: your own land and to pass it on to your children. 29 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: I was a curious child, and one of my favorite 30 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: things to do with him was to take long walks 31 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: and ask him questions about his life back in Cablevere. 32 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: He came to the US when he was six on 33 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: a schooner named the Volante. I loved hearing about his 34 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: childhood back in Cablevert the way the mountains of Fontana's 35 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: always sat shrouded in clouds, or the beauty of the 36 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: flowers and the people. Listening to these stories made me 37 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: feel transported, my own imagination filling in the gaps of 38 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: what his life had been like. To me, Cableverd was 39 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: a place of wonder, a place I felt so connected to, 40 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: a place I could not wait to experience myself. But 41 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: within all of that, what I most remember was a 42 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: feeling of my papa's mixed emotions, because within his stories 43 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: about life on Bravo, I heard a tinge of sadness 44 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: in his voice. And when I'd asked my Papa if 45 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: he missed Cablvert and if he wanted to go back, 46 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: he'd look at me and say, for what, I'm mercy 47 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: to Pena and from iHeart podcasts enforce the media group, 48 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: this is sweet, Daddy, Grace. 49 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 2: You're glad, you're being happy. 50 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: Bow, thank, You're glad. 51 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 3: Ahead and they laugh against happy brown and crying, we're. 52 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 4: O b ing. 53 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: Daddy immigrated to the United States from Kabovid, just like 54 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: my grandfather. It was a country that both then and now, 55 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: not many Americans outside the diaspora know much about. But 56 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: to get to know Bishop Grace, you have to know 57 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: where he came from. The Kapoveti Islands are located about 58 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,359 Speaker 1: three hundred and fifty miles off the coast of Senegal 59 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: in the Atlantic Ocean. In Portuguese, Kabovid means green cape, 60 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: which is quite a bit of a misnomer, as the 61 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: country is not particularly green. The islands are situated in 62 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: the crossroads of two of the driest trade winds in 63 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: the world, so there is very little rain, and several 64 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: of the islands are basically deserts. Capplevedy is made up 65 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: of ten islands, nine of which are inhabited, and while 66 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: they are proudly connected as one country, each is a 67 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: little different. Each speaks its own dialect of Creole, for example, 68 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: and the cultures are a little different too. The people 69 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: of Santiago, the largest island, are known for the music 70 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 1: of batucu, a form of drumming and dancing that is 71 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: primarily done by women. Sanvicentz is known for its carnival, 72 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: but it is also deeply influenced by the British, who 73 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: used the island as a coal refueling station in the 74 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: early eighteen hundreds. Embravo, where my family is from, is 75 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 1: the smallest island, known for its hospitality nationally revered poet 76 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: Eugenio Tavars, as well as its waterfalls and flowers. We 77 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 1: are most united, perhaps by the fact that at its 78 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: very essence, to be Cape Verdean means to have roots 79 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 1: from around the globe, because before Portuguese explorers landed there 80 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: in the mid fifteenth century, the Caboverti Islands were actually uninhabited, 81 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: and as was the case during this time period, the 82 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: Portuguese government was interested in two things, producing sugar and 83 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: enslaving Africans to do it. But the land was so 84 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: dry the sugar crops failed, and the Portuguese realized that 85 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: their new colony was actually much more useful as a 86 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: port in their slave trade, which was quickly expanding. Many 87 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: Africans brought to Kabulvid were sent on slave ships to 88 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: the Americas, but many also stayed. Some were enslaved to 89 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: work for Portuguese landholders, and others escaped into the mountains 90 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: where they formed their own communities, which still exists today. 91 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: So Cape Verdean Creole culture developed. As these populations African 92 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: European Middle Eastern intermingled to become something very much its own. Economically, however, 93 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 1: Kablevid was turning into a tough acquisition for the Portuguese. 94 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 1: After around a century of colonization, the land could no 95 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: longer grow much like the indigo they had used to 96 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: trade for enslaved Africans, and by the late eighteen hundreds, 97 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: the slave trade itself had ended, so the colonizers abandoned 98 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: the islands and left the people of Kabove to fend 99 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: for themselves. Many people suffered horribly. They were literally dying 100 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: of starvation and dehydration. The islands experienced chronic droughts, where 101 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: sometimes fifty percent of the population would die. Many Cape 102 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: Verdians were forced to leave, trying to make whatever money 103 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: they could to send back home to feed their families. 104 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: Many never returned. The main way out was on railing ships. 105 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: The eighteen hundreds were at height of the whaling industry, 106 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: and Cape Verdians played a big part as crews on 107 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: the American owned boats. They were known for their courage, work, ethic, 108 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: and maritime skills. Remember Moby Dick. It was published in 109 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: eighteen fifty one and one of the harpooners on board 110 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: Dago is thought to be Cape Verdian. But eventually the 111 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: work dried up. 112 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 5: When whaling went into decline in the United States, was 113 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:35,199 Speaker 5: harder to get young Yankees to serve as crew on 114 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 5: whaling vessels. 115 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: That's my stepmom. Marilyn Halter again, scholar of Cape Verdian 116 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: American history and professor emerita at Boston University. 117 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 5: So when they would stop in the Cape Verde Islands. 118 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 5: By the late nineteenth century, they were eager to find 119 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 5: people to man these ships. 120 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: Cape Verdian men bought old whaling boats, prepared and started 121 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: what was called the packet trade. Now Cape Verdian owned 122 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 1: and operated ships would crisscross the Atlantic, bringing supplies from 123 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: the United States back to Cobblevid and bringing immigrants to 124 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: New Bedford, Massachusetts and Providence, Rhode Island. Because of this, 125 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: the first voluntary African immigrants to America were Cape Verdeans. 126 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: This ended up giving them an advantage when they arrived, 127 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: they still had community. 128 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 5: Really, unlike any immigrant group, white or black, they were 129 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 5: the only population to actually have control over their means 130 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 5: of passage to this country. And when you contrast that 131 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 5: with the other African immigrants who came here involuntarily, the 132 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:57,199 Speaker 5: slave population, who had absolutely no control over anything in 133 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 5: their lives. There was a lot of cultural and community support. 134 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: Part of that support meant access to work, though often 135 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: the kind of jobs available were the ones no one 136 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: else wanted. 137 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 5: There was such a racial and ethnic hierarchy that the 138 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 5: only jobs for them was at the lowest rung of 139 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 5: the ladder, so the Irish got the best jobs, and 140 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 5: then the Portuguese and the French Canadians, and then you know, 141 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 5: Cape Verdians were at the bottom of the ladder. There 142 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 5: was work at the stack textile mills, on the Cranberry brogs, 143 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 5: and in maritime related occupations such as longshoremen and cooks 144 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 5: and other kinds of dock workers. 145 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: Details are scarce about Daddy Grace's immigration story to the US. 146 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 1: We know he had come over from the island of 147 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 1: Brava and landed in New Bedford in nineteen oh four 148 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: on a ship called the Louisa. His parents and at 149 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: least seven siblings were already there waiting for him. The 150 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: New Bedford Evening Standard wrote about the Louisa's arrival. It 151 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:18,559 Speaker 1: mentioned one passenger who looked quote every inch a dude 152 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: with his trousers carefully pressed in an immaculate shirt front. 153 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:27,959 Speaker 1: I'd like to hope that was our Marcellino. I get 154 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 1: the feeling he always stood out. He first made his 155 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: living in America, like basically all Cape Verdian immigrants did, 156 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:41,199 Speaker 1: working various jobs. He picked Cranberry's in the bogs, a 157 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: job he apparently hated so much he threw down his 158 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: wheelbarrow and quit. He also sold patent medicines, ran a 159 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: grocery store, and worked as a cook in a local 160 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: restaurant and later on on the railways. My own great grandfather, 161 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: Manuel Grace, the one and I never met, arrived in 162 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: the United States around the same time as Daddy Grace, 163 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: and in some ways their stories were similar, including the 164 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: fact that they were both from Brava and both named Grace. 165 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 6: The way it was explained to me by Uncle Abel 166 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 6: was that he found out that his father was being promiscuous. 167 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: That's my cousin Jonathan. Again from what Jonathan has been told. 168 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: Our great grandfather, who everyone called Nola Locke, left Kabovid 169 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: when he was just seventeen years old. 170 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 6: He had told his mother before he had left and 171 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,719 Speaker 6: gone to school, and I guess during the day she 172 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 6: confronted him when he was coming home that his father 173 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,719 Speaker 6: was pitching rocks at him, telling him, don't come back 174 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 6: here no more. One of the times that he was hit, 175 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 6: he was hitting the head and then he went down 176 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 6: where there was a whaler stocking up, and that was 177 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 6: his first time that he had left home. 178 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: My aunt Judy Jonathan's mother picks up the story from there. 179 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: He had no money. 180 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 4: He came on a whaling ship working and his destination 181 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 4: was the United States. However, he jumped ship in Bermuda 182 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 4: and worked on a sugar plantation there to earn money 183 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 4: to continue to travel. Sailed around South America and went 184 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:24,599 Speaker 4: to Hawaii, and then he went to San Francisco. He 185 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,839 Speaker 4: was there during the nineteen oh six Great Earthquake. 186 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: After the earthquake, my great grandfather got a job on 187 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: the railroads and made his way east across the country. 188 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: His final destination a small seaside town outside New Bedford 189 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: called Mattapoisa, where he had family nearby. Life there suited him. 190 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: He got a job doing manual labor and soon saved 191 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: enough money to buy a small pig farm and a house. 192 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: He was around forty old for a bachelor those days, 193 00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: and was ready to settle down. 194 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:00,319 Speaker 3: Then. 195 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 4: He was not a young man, and I believed that 196 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 4: he had an arranged marriage with a Cape Fridian woman 197 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 4: from Brava. 198 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: With just a horse and buggy, he started a small 199 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: business collecting trash in the neighborhood, and he eventually won 200 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: a contract with the town But when I asked my 201 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: aunt to describe Nola Lock for me, she mostly talked 202 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: about his spirituality, and he was very, very. 203 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 4: Much into his religion. In our dining room, we had 204 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 4: a large farmhouse kitchen and we always ate there. I 205 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 4: don't ever recall eating in the dining room, but what 206 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 4: I do remember is that was where my grandfather had 207 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 4: his Bible, and that he sat there and read the Bible. 208 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 2: So food wasn't. 209 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 4: Served there, but the Word of God was served there. 210 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: My aunt Judy stories got me thinking about how similar 211 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: Nola Lock and Daddy Grace's lives must have been in America, 212 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: At least at first. They worked the same blue collar 213 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: jobs that all Cape Verdians did. They went to the 214 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: same shops. They both married Cape Verdian women and started families. 215 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: But where we related. I started asking other family members 216 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: what they knew or who I should talk to. One 217 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: person told me that years before Daddy Grace founded the 218 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: United House of Prayer, he would sometimes preach at the 219 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: church that Nola Loc attended, the Portuguese Pentecostal church on 220 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: Cape Cod pastored by Joseph de Grace, Daddy Grace's elder brother, 221 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: and that in the early days. They enjoyed discussing the 222 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: Bible together when Daddy Grace would visit Nola Lock's house. 223 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: Nola Lock's house the one he bought with the trash 224 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: collection earnings. It yielded another clue. I was on ancestry 225 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: dot Com looking through some old census records from the 226 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: nineteen twenties and thirties. The house that Nola Lock owned 227 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: it was right next to a house owned by Caesar Grace, 228 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: Daddy Grace's older brother. I had heard their families were close, 229 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: that Caesar's daughter and Nola Locke's daughter my Nana called 230 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: each other Prima's cousins. This in itself didn't prove anything. 231 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: It's customary for Kate Burdian's to call each other family, 232 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: even if the relationship isn't blood. I still call my parents' 233 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: friends TiO and Tia. But it did help explain what 234 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: happened later. When Daddy Grace asked Nola Lock's daughter my 235 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: Nana to go out on the road with him as 236 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: part of his church that man. 237 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 7: Showed up on the farm thinking he could talk to 238 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 7: your grandmother. My father would have no part of it, 239 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 7: and then he would go into speaking creole where he 240 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 7: would say, showing him the axe and saying, you know 241 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 7: this is the axe, I'll sharpen it on your head. 242 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: Daddy Grace would have been in his mid forties, and 243 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: here he was asking Nola Lock's teenage daughter to leave 244 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 1: home and join his church and travel with him unaccompanied, 245 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: without even asking permission from her father. Daddy Grace had 246 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: to have known that this was not appropriate behavior and 247 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 1: something Nola Lock would not have liked. No wonder Nola 248 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: Lock was so enraged he threatened Daddy Grace with an axe. 249 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 1: I've spent a lot of time thinking about this. Why 250 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: Nola Lock in Daddy Grace's lives diverged? Why are families diverged? 251 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: My great grandfather he was a conservative man. After having 252 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: spent years disconnected from his own family, traveling around the globe, 253 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: working and searching for a home, he was happy to 254 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 1: stay in Massachusetts, working his farm, running his businesses, raising 255 00:17:55,960 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: his children, and living a stable, if modest life. In contrast, 256 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: Daddy Grace was always looking outward, far from New Bedford. 257 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 1: He didn't seem interested in settling into the role of 258 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: a family man. He had a burning desire to spread 259 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: the gospel far and wide. In nineteen twelve, after just 260 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: a few years of marriage, he left his wife and 261 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 1: two young children, hit the road and traveled the country 262 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: and the world, refining his evangelical message. The decisions he 263 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: made his life must have seemed truly wild to my 264 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: great grandfather. Daddy Grace had his own style, and it 265 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: wasn't traditional. It was flamboyant. His hair was long, he 266 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: wore colorful clothes, and he wasn't afraid to show off 267 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: his success. I'm sure that got people talking and that 268 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: he quickly realized that he was outgrowing New Bedford. I 269 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 1: can relate. Growing up in New Bedford. I always felt different. Yeah, 270 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 1: I hung out on the beach and participate in all 271 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: the traditional Cape Verdian activities, but I would also skip 272 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: school and take the bus to New York City for 273 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: the day to shop and discover the latest music and fashions. 274 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: By this time I got to high school, I knew 275 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: that if I wanted to do anything creative, I need 276 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: to leave. I needed to explore outside of the fish 277 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: bowl of the Cape Verdian American community. Like Daddy Grace, 278 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 1: I needed to find my place in the world among 279 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: the many pieces of Daddy Grace. Material I've collected is 280 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: a copy of his nineteen fourteen Declaration of intention to 281 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: become an American citizen. I've studied it trying to understand 282 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: more about this man from the few details listed, like, 283 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: for example, how at the time he was employed as 284 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: a cook, that he renounced any allegiance to the Republic 285 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: of Portugal, that he was thirty one, five foot eight 286 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,680 Speaker 1: and one hundred and sixty six pounds, that his skin 287 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: color was black, but that he had a light complexion. 288 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: Knowing how complicated identity can be for Cape Verdians in America, 289 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: this last part was especially interesting to me. How Daddy 290 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: Grace viewed himself was a big source of controversy around 291 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: him at the time, something both black and white Americans 292 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: had trouble wrapping their heads around. In nineteen fifty two, 293 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: Daddy Grace was featured in a piece in Ebony magazine. 294 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: He told the writer, I am not a Negro. I 295 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: am white by race. But he also tells the same reporter, 296 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: I am a colorless bishop. Sometimes I'm black, sometimes I'm white. 297 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:46,360 Speaker 1: I preach to all races. I wonder what Ebony readers, 298 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: who were predominantly black would have made of this statement. 299 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: Did Daddy Grace think that by claiming to be white 300 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,360 Speaker 1: that would take him further? Was he a race denier 301 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: or did he just understand the power of a life 302 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: little controversy. I can understand why people might have thought 303 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 1: that when they heard that quote. There were Cape Verdians who, 304 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 1: thanks to colonialism, were brainwashed to believe that they were Portuguese. 305 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 1: And of course many of us do have Portuguese blood. 306 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: But I don't think that's what Daddy Grace meant. Daddy 307 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: Grace did not consider himself a black American. He considered 308 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: himself Cape Verdian because Kabalvid was still a colony of Portugal. 309 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: Daddy Grace came to America on a Portuguese passport, but 310 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: he didn't look like how Americans thought a Portuguese man looked. 311 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 1: He didn't look white, he didn't look European. He had 312 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: curly hair, light brown skin, and he was always dressed 313 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,400 Speaker 1: to the nines with a three piece suit, a ten 314 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: gallon hat and his jewels. He also spoke with an accent, 315 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: which further confused how others perceived him. And because of that, 316 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: I think he was misunderstood by temporary Americans whose own 317 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: views of race didn't allow much room for nuance. Throughout 318 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 1: his time in America, Daddy Grace's racial categorization changed based 319 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: on whoever was filling out the paperwork. Immigration listed him 320 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: as black African from Portugal on his nineteen oh four arrival. 321 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: On the nineteen ten census, he was listed as Mulatto, 322 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: but his nineteen eighteen draft card says Negro, and his 323 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:37,439 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty two marriage license lists him as Caucasian. No wonder, 324 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 1: Daddy Grace said he was colorless. He saw right through 325 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: the absurdity of the system and perhaps saw the opportunity 326 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: to define himself on his own terms. This seemingly arbitrary 327 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: racial categorization imposed by other people was actually quite common, 328 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: and so wrestling with identity race was something that he 329 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: and all Cape Verdian immigrants were very familiar with. These 330 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: immigrants were escaping a system of white supremacy and colonialism 331 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: only to arrive in America and see how Black Americans 332 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 1: were being violently oppressed through racist Jim Crow laws in 333 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 1: the horrific terror of lynching, and the people doing the 334 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,360 Speaker 1: lynching didn't care about where you were born or how 335 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: you identified In August of nineteen twenty one, it was 336 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: reported that a mob threatened to lynch three quote Cape 337 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: verd Island negroes on Cape cod who had been charged 338 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: with a criminal assault on a white woman. This was 339 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: the world they needed to figure out how to position 340 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 1: themselves in to survive and to thrive. 341 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 5: They were arriving at the height of racial misgenation and 342 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 5: de facto segregation in this country. 343 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: That's Marilyn and again, nobody had. 344 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 5: Any interest in recognizing them as Cape Verdians as a 345 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 5: separate identity. All they saw was black or white, and 346 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 5: so they were treated with the same level of discrimination, prejudice, 347 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 5: and hostility as African Americans or other people of color 348 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:23,439 Speaker 5: in this country. 349 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: Other Americans didn't understand Cape Verdians in our rich multi 350 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 1: ethnic identities. What island you were from, what type of 351 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 1: creole you spoke, what's your family name? That was what 352 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 1: was discussed, not just your skin color. 353 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 5: It was so uncomfortable, even oppressive for Cape Verdeans to 354 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 5: arrive here and just being categorized by other people in 355 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 5: ways that weren't even recognizable to themselves, let alone to 356 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 5: the rest of society. And it's a kind of a 357 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 5: rature of who you are. 358 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: This still feels true to me, a third generation Cape 359 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 1: Ritian American. Where do you actually fit in? 360 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 5: Daddy Grace, in his interview in Ebony magazine, said, I 361 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 5: am a colorless man. I am a colorless bishop. And 362 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 5: to me, that's like just so Cape Ridian. He's enhancing 363 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 5: his black side and his white side, and he's bringing 364 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 5: it all together. I think that Cape Verdeans were actually 365 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 5: pioneers of how to navigate the waters of American pluralism. 366 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:52,959 Speaker 5: They've challenged these notions of race, color, ethnicity, and identity 367 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 5: well before anyone else, any other population in this country 368 00:25:58,720 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 5: that I know of. 369 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 8: So basically, the intentionality behind why folks would choose to 370 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 8: call themselves cape Verdian but then not claiming black as 371 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 8: a race or saying that they are Portuguese. Why is that? 372 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 8: Is it because of the desire to have proximity to 373 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 8: whiteness or wanting to hold on to white supremacist ideals. 374 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 8: So I always talk about intentionality as it relates to 375 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 8: identity of our people. 376 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: Doctor terzel Minev's is a professor of political science at 377 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: Johnson C. Smith University in Charlotte, North Carolina, and because 378 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: she's also a Cape Verdian immigrant herself. She can give 379 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 1: context to the struggle Cape Verdian's face around identity in America. 380 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:54,120 Speaker 8: I think that it's an intergenerational conversation controversy or our 381 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 8: ancestors who arrived here in the late eighteen hundreds or 382 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 8: early nineteen hundreds and beyond, where segregation racism was just, 383 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 8: you know, the dominant conversation. Of course, you're going to 384 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 8: try to separate yourself from the Black American community because 385 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 8: of this notion. You see how Black Americans are being 386 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 8: treated and you're trying to distance yourself from that. But 387 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 8: then you know you're not white, and the other white 388 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 8: groups don't see you as being white. Not quite Black 389 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 8: American by choice and by force, but you're not Portuguese 390 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 8: or white. So then you stick to what you know 391 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 8: and you begin to rely on each other. And so 392 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 8: that's not to say it's wrong or right, it's just 393 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:46,360 Speaker 8: what happened. 394 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: Times have changed since Daddy Grace and other elders came 395 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: to the United States, and Tarsa experienced the transformation of 396 00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 1: her own identity within the racial construct of America. She 397 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,920 Speaker 1: says much of this was thanks to the professors and 398 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: peers she was surrounded by at Clark Atlanta University. 399 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 8: I'm very specific about saying that I'm a Black African woman. 400 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,120 Speaker 8: That's how I see myself, and that is all due 401 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 8: to the socialization and the education that I received. Most 402 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,360 Speaker 8: of the professors were black, but there were a very 403 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 8: diverse group of black people from the United States and 404 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 8: also from many of different places in the diaspora and 405 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 8: the continent of Africa as well. All through those years, 406 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 8: I was able to be grounded in what I wanted 407 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 8: my identity to look like. 408 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: I was born here in the United States, and I've 409 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: always identified as a black woman, but I also see 410 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: myself very much as a Cape Verdian woman. By the 411 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: time we got to my generation, Cape Verdian Americans had 412 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 1: experienced a century of oppression in the United States and 413 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: had been fighting alongside black and African diaspora Americans for 414 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: a dis dis mantling of structural racism. And I grew 415 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: up in the hip hop generation, where principles like pan 416 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: Africanism and knowledge of self led me to discover my 417 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: ancestral roots, unravel the heinous system of the Afro Atlantic 418 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: slave trade, and explore the deep connection of those entangled 419 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: in it. But identity is complicated. As soon as you 420 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: define what it means to you, society and people in 421 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: general impose their perception of you onto you. So there's 422 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: this kind of internal and external negotiation of determining exactly 423 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: who you are. It's a never ending cycle that starts 424 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: with the question what are you. I took my first 425 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: trip to Cubovid in two thousand and five, and since 426 00:29:55,280 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: then I've been back many times, spending time there seeing 427 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 1: the things my papa talked about in Parson, understanding a 428 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: bit deeper how hard it must have been for my 429 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: ancestors to leave their home and try to have a 430 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: better life. All of that has helped me to figure 431 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: out who I am in a way I never could 432 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: in the United States. Cabovid feels like home to me, 433 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: but I was born and raised in America. So when 434 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: I'm in Caubovid, my style, my accent, and many of 435 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: the ways in which I operate make me stand out. 436 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: So that question what are you? I can't escape it. 437 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: In Kapovedi, either Cape Verdeans in Cabalvid see me as 438 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: their American cousin. They see me as someone who is 439 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: not native to the islands. They call me things like Portuguez, 440 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: or laugh at me when I spoke Creole because it 441 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: gets mixed up with Portuguese, which I also speak. Or 442 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: they would even call me white girl. But I'm Kenya 443 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: because I am light skinned. But here's the thing. Cape 444 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: Verdian's born in Kabulvid may not have these same issues 445 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: in the Islands, but just like Daddy Grace, as soon 446 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: as they leave, their own identities are also questioned. 447 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 9: So I am cape Verdian. I was raised here in Praya, 448 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 9: cabu Verdi. My family everyone is cave Verdian. 449 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: That's Simone Spencer. She's an artist and educator. I talked 450 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: with her in Praya when I was there last. Talking 451 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: with Simon helped me unpack some of the feelings that 452 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: I had about identity, race and perception. 453 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 9: When you are hearing Kabu Verdi, you identify yourself as 454 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 9: cape Verdian, not as black or white. You only feel 455 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 9: the need to identify as either black or white once 456 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 9: you move out. I went to study in China and 457 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 9: that's when the identity thing came to me. Cave Verdin 458 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 9: is such a small country in the whole world that 459 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 9: when you go abroad, people don't even know about the country. 460 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: So just being Cape Verdian was not enough. 461 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 9: I had very, very very short hair, and because my 462 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 9: eyes are a bit slented, people would think I'm a 463 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 9: Chinese from the south and my name is Simone Spencer. 464 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 9: It's like an Irish surname, and I'm like, definitely not Irish. 465 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 1: I have very curly hair and my skin is not 466 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: white at all. Why you have an Irish surname. It's colonialism, 467 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: by the way. It's colonialism. 468 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 9: So then it's where the real searching for an identity came. 469 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: I can relate to this. Living in the Cape Verdian 470 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: bubble of New Bedford, no one ever thought that I 471 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: was anything but Cape Verdian. I mean, I went to 472 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 1: school with a gang of cousins. We all know each 473 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: other's families, and we all went to the same Cape 474 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: Verdian clubs. But after I left home, I got a 475 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: lot of confused expressions about my last name to Pina 476 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,719 Speaker 1: and the way I looked. In New York City, everyone 477 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: spoke to me in Spanish and assumed I was Puerto 478 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: Rican or Dominican. I got that question again, what are you. 479 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: Anyone who's ever been asked us before knows how aggravating 480 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: it can be, especially because in my case, a lot 481 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: of people have never even heard of Kabovad. But there's 482 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: also something powerful and not being easily defined. Simoni feels 483 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: this too. 484 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 9: It's something you can't describe. It's complicated. It's like being 485 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 9: the perfect spy. Yeah, because you are so ambiguous. It's 486 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 9: being everything and nothing, because you'll come from everywhere, but 487 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 9: it's nothing because on the world stage, almost nobody ever 488 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:09,800 Speaker 9: heard of you. 489 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 1: During one of my most recent trips to Kaboved I 490 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: tried to track down my ancestral records and Daddy Grace 491 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 1: is too. Maybe this would help me understand more about 492 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,240 Speaker 1: where we both came from and either confirm or deny 493 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,320 Speaker 1: that there is a blood relation. I visited the National 494 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: Archives in the capital city Praya, certain they could help, 495 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: but once I actually got inside, I ran into one 496 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: bureaucratic roadblock after another trying to access any records. They 497 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: took my email address, but I'm still waiting for information. 498 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: I was also hoping to finally make it to Brava, 499 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: the island where my ancestors and Daddy Grace are from 500 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: I wanted to see the place where my family called home, 501 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: and I wanted to visit the Catholic Church, which is 502 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: known for keeping reliable baptism records. I thought that would 503 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: definitely help me to confirm my family's history. But getting 504 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: to Brava is difficult, really difficult. It's the smallest of 505 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: the populated islands, with only around five thousand people. There 506 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: is no airport. You have to take a boat, and 507 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,880 Speaker 1: the boats, for one reason or another, are often canceled. 508 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: This happens a lot. The same thing happened to me 509 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,240 Speaker 1: the last three times I tried to make the journey. 510 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: So I'm trying to figure out options. Standing at the 511 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 1: travel agency and a room full of people all clamoring 512 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: and trying to get to Brava, and my friend says 513 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,359 Speaker 1: to me, what are you doing. You're an American girl, 514 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 1: You have an American passport. 515 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 7: Use it. 516 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 1: You can use that passport to get you first in line, 517 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,360 Speaker 1: and not just shook me. Because here I am with 518 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 1: people who've been waiting to get home for days, some 519 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,800 Speaker 1: for weeks. This one is sick, this one's waiting to 520 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: bring money home, this one's bringing food. These are people 521 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 1: with real struggles, real issues, and I'm dealing with first 522 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: world problems. The average Cape Verdian salary is around one 523 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty dollars a month, making it economically impossible 524 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: for people to survive without remittances from relatives that are overseas, 525 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 1: and one hundred plus years after my ancestors fled, it's 526 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 1: still easier for a Cape Verdian to travel abroad than 527 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 1: to find reliable and safe into island transit to Brava. 528 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,840 Speaker 1: Not until that moment did I ever think of myself 529 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: as privileged. I grew up poor on welfare, eating government 530 00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,839 Speaker 1: cheese and powdered milk. My mother worked nights a latchkey kid, 531 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 1: but my mother didn't have to get on a flight 532 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: or a boat to come home or immigrate to find 533 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 1: work in Praia. Not only did I feel the sting 534 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: of privilege, but I also felt survivor's guilt. Because my 535 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 1: ancestors sacrificed so much, I had opportunities and access to 536 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:25,320 Speaker 1: resources that most people in Kabovid can only dream of. 537 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 1: I never did get to Brava. I felt like a failure, 538 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: like I let my ancestors down, but also my team 539 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: back in New York. I had traveled across the Atlantic 540 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 1: and had failed to find any new information on not 541 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: only my family but Daddy Grace. I was no closer 542 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 1: to proving or disproving my relation to him. After I 543 00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,799 Speaker 1: got back to the States, I couldn't stop thinking about 544 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: my trip and everything that I had brought up. I 545 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 1: was searching for answers, but came back with more questions. 546 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 1: I still didn't have the origin story, my origin story, 547 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:16,280 Speaker 1: or Daddy Grace's. I sat down with my friend Darryl Stewart, 548 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,800 Speaker 1: who's also a producer on this show, to help me 549 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: unpack some of the deep feelings that came up from 550 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: me about race, identity and how people's roots and stories 551 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 1: get lost over the generations. 552 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:38,239 Speaker 10: So I'm Black American, identify as Black American, and unfortunately 553 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,360 Speaker 10: for me, we can only trace our ancestry back. But 554 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:46,600 Speaker 10: so far we know that our ancestors were from the 555 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 10: Geechee Island area, that they were slaves brought in off 556 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 10: of the coast of Carolinas. 557 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:52,879 Speaker 1: But that's pretty much. 558 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,880 Speaker 10: Oh, we know. Can you talk a little bit about 559 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,640 Speaker 10: connecting to your ancestry? 560 00:38:59,360 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 7: How was that shit? 561 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:04,399 Speaker 1: How you see the world today living in a place 562 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: like New Bedford, where most of the black people are 563 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,520 Speaker 1: Cape Verdian. I didn't think about it as much when 564 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:15,239 Speaker 1: I lived there, because you know, I was among everybody's 565 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: pretty much the same. It wasn't until I moved out 566 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 1: of the area that I started to have more questions 567 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,760 Speaker 1: about my identity, or at the very least, have questions 568 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 1: about how other people perceived me, because when I was 569 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,359 Speaker 1: growing up, there were never any questions. Nobody ever was like, oh, 570 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:36,800 Speaker 1: are you mixed? So yes, being Cape Verdian I quickly 571 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,880 Speaker 1: realized was a big part of my identity, right, and 572 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:44,279 Speaker 1: that is something that's different from being Black American and 573 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 1: you're having what you can trace of your ancestral roots here. 574 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: But upon a further investigation of what it means to 575 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 1: be Cape Verdian, you know, you quickly realize that I 576 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 1: can only go back so far to trace my family lineage. Like, yes, 577 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 1: we from a place that is in Africa and has 578 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: its own cultural identity, its own language. But Cape Verdians 579 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,280 Speaker 1: wouldn't even exist if it wasn't from the slave trade, 580 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:16,720 Speaker 1: so we cannot trace our ancestral roots either. 581 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:22,480 Speaker 10: Do you think that's where Daddy Grace struggled with his identity. 582 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 10: What do you think about that. 583 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:29,759 Speaker 1: I do think that Daddy Grace was an outcast within 584 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 1: the Cape Verdian community. 585 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:32,160 Speaker 2: Why. 586 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 1: I think he was rejected because I think Kate Verdians 587 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:42,840 Speaker 1: felt he was too audacious, not humble, just ostentatious with 588 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,880 Speaker 1: the display of his money. I think also some of 589 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 1: his ways in which he operated people were, you know, 590 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:55,319 Speaker 1: really questioned, like the fact that he was surrounded by 591 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,239 Speaker 1: a lot of attendants. He didn't give conservative cape Verdian man. 592 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:05,759 Speaker 1: He gave flamboyant, unapologetic I'm gonna be me and you 593 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,520 Speaker 1: were going to recognize that I am a very wealthy 594 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 1: man and I'm not gonna hide at I think that 595 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,279 Speaker 1: he had to have struggled with that. I think that 596 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,799 Speaker 1: even if outwardly he might never have said, like, oh, 597 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,400 Speaker 1: I feel rejected by the Cape Verdian community. And it 598 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,880 Speaker 1: wasn't just the Cape Verdian community. He was rejected by 599 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,319 Speaker 1: the black community too, and he was obviously rejected by 600 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: the white community. So I think he had to have 601 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:36,840 Speaker 1: had an unshakeable belief in himself. He really felt that 602 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,200 Speaker 1: I'm here to spread God's word. This is my mission. 603 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,040 Speaker 1: He even says in some of his teachings that he 604 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 1: was just being persecuted the same way Jesus was. 605 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,080 Speaker 2: And you know what, shout out to my mother. 606 00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:49,239 Speaker 1: She used to say that too. 607 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,040 Speaker 10: She used to say, I don't know why you kids 608 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,080 Speaker 10: are so concerned about what other people think because they 609 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:56,080 Speaker 10: talked about Jesus. 610 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 1: So guess what people are going to talk about you too. 611 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 10: Move into your purpose. 612 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:03,439 Speaker 1: That's exactly what Daddy Gray said. 613 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,440 Speaker 10: There is another side to this right where people are like, 614 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:11,239 Speaker 10: I'm successful, I made it, my bills are paid, my 615 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:15,760 Speaker 10: life is wonderful. You know, fuck everybody who who doesn't 616 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,719 Speaker 10: like me or who didn't support me, etc. This is 617 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,319 Speaker 10: my time to shine. But I think it gets complicated 618 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:26,440 Speaker 10: for us, right, people of color. So much of our 619 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:33,640 Speaker 10: identity is steeped in family and community, right, and we do, 620 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,120 Speaker 10: many of us in some ways, we don't feel fulfilled 621 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 10: until we have the co sign right of family, of community, 622 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:48,120 Speaker 10: of et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So this is 623 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 10: my final question for you. 624 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:55,640 Speaker 1: What does your Cape Verdean heritage mean to you? That's 625 00:42:55,680 --> 00:43:02,800 Speaker 1: a serious question, Darryl, so serious a question that I 626 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,560 Speaker 1: couldn't give Darryl a concise answer. But I kept coming 627 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:10,200 Speaker 1: back to those days spent with my grandparents, learning about 628 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,240 Speaker 1: the ways of the old country, tending to the garden 629 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,680 Speaker 1: and the animals, Sitting around the table with my extended 630 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:21,320 Speaker 1: family as they laughed, playing cards for pennies and telling stories. 631 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,919 Speaker 1: I thought about the feeling of Sodi and how Cape 632 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:30,680 Speaker 1: Verdeans in the diaspora are always longing for home, and 633 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:35,239 Speaker 1: how those in Kabulvid are always yearning to be reunited 634 00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:39,239 Speaker 1: with their loved ones spread across the globe. I also 635 00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,640 Speaker 1: kept coming back to what Simoni had said about being 636 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:47,839 Speaker 1: a spy. Cape Verdians have a unique way of blending it. Oftentimes, 637 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,279 Speaker 1: unless someone comes out and says it, you won't even 638 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,840 Speaker 1: know that their roots are in cabol Vid. People like 639 00:43:55,040 --> 00:44:00,719 Speaker 1: actors Michael Beach and Anika Nanni Rose, or Congressmen Haki Jeffries, 640 00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:06,520 Speaker 1: or jazz musicians Horace Silver and Paul Gonzalves, the disco 641 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:12,960 Speaker 1: group the Tavars and rapper coy lay over the generations. 642 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:18,360 Speaker 1: Our identity merges with Black Americans, although we never forget 643 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,680 Speaker 1: our Cape Verdian heritage. And then, of course, I thought 644 00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 1: about Daddy Grace. Daddy Grace was a citizen of the world. 645 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:31,160 Speaker 1: He didn't see himself in the same racial construct that 646 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,520 Speaker 1: we see ourselves here in America. Plus, as a man 647 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,440 Speaker 1: of God, he knew race didn't mean a thing when 648 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:42,880 Speaker 1: it comes to being saved. Right before his death, Daddy 649 00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 1: Grace recorded a live sermon. There's this section I especially 650 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,320 Speaker 1: like where he gives us clues about how he saw himself. 651 00:44:55,800 --> 00:45:00,719 Speaker 2: And I'm on my way, however, and I'm there now, 652 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:11,960 Speaker 2: I'm every aware, no where I am now, I'm everywhere 653 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:25,080 Speaker 2: right now. Don't you say, God, He's everywhere. I'm everywhere. 654 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:36,000 Speaker 2: All you gotta do think of me, love me. 655 00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:39,400 Speaker 7: Ready is to go with me. 656 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:41,560 Speaker 3: Where I am. 657 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:42,320 Speaker 7: You there. 658 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:48,480 Speaker 1: And the people, well, they were ready to go with him. 659 00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:55,360 Speaker 1: That's next time. Sweet Daddy Grace is a production of 660 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,800 Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts Enforce, a media group. This show is hosted 661 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:03,880 Speaker 1: by by me Marcy de Pina. It's written and produced 662 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:08,760 Speaker 1: by Marissa Brown and Me. Our story editors are Darryl Stewart, 663 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:14,000 Speaker 1: Duncan Riedel, and Zarren Burnett. Editing, sound design and theme 664 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:20,200 Speaker 1: music by Jonathan Washington. Original music by Enrique Silva of 665 00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:26,160 Speaker 1: Acasia Mayor. Show cover art by Viviana Salgado of Studio 666 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:32,680 Speaker 1: Creative Group, fact checking by Austin Thompson. Our executive producers 667 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:38,560 Speaker 1: are Marcy Depina and Jason English. Special Thanks to Will Pearson, 668 00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:44,880 Speaker 1: Nikki Ettore, Ali Perry, Tamika Campbell, and Lulu Phillip of iHeartMedia, 669 00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 1: and all of my family members who talked to me 670 00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:52,359 Speaker 1: for this show, my ancestors, the United House of Prayer 671 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:56,080 Speaker 1: for All People, and the countless number of people who 672 00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,879 Speaker 1: shared their memories of Sweet Daddy Grace with me. Thanks 673 00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,800 Speaker 1: also to doctor Marie Dollum and doctor Danielle brun Sigler, 674 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:08,400 Speaker 1: whose academic work on Sweet Daddy Grace has been incredibly helpful. 675 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,600 Speaker 1: And finally, I want to thank Bishop Grace himself for 676 00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:17,560 Speaker 1: choosing me to tell his story. For more information on 677 00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:21,760 Speaker 1: Bishop Charles M. Grace, check out the website Sweet Daddy 678 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:26,040 Speaker 1: Grace and follow me at Marcy Depina on all social 679 00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:26,920 Speaker 1: platforms