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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Norrey with you.

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Speaker 2: We've got a fascinating couple hours here for you. Richard,

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Speaker 2: A step back with us. First got involved with paranormal

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Speaker 2: research back in nineteen ninety five in the United Kingdom.

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Speaker 2: He attended an overnight investigation of the infamous church that's

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Speaker 2: called the Skidbrook Case, and he spent the next five

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Speaker 2: years investigating the haunted hamlets of Great Britain as a

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Speaker 2: member of Andrew Wright's Leicister's based team. Richard co founded

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Speaker 2: the Boulder County Paranormal Research Group with his wife Laura

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Speaker 2: after relocating to the United States back in nineteen ninety nine.

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Speaker 2: His latest work is called Family, Friends and Neighbors Stories

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Speaker 2: of Murder and Betrayal. Richard, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, George, your good evening depending on your time zone.

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Speaker 2: How are you absolutely my friend? And you're in the

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Speaker 2: States now right, I am.

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Speaker 4: I'm in the Colorado Voda County.

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Speaker 2: How's the weather your way?

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Speaker 4: Getting called and expecting some.

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Speaker 2: Snows, That's what I hear. We're going to be out

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Speaker 2: there in Boulder next week doing our Beyond Belief tapings.

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Speaker 2: We've got to get a hold of you one day.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 3: I've done your Sean and I love it, so.

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Speaker 4: That'd be fun get you back.

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Speaker 2: We had a good response, to be sure.

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Speaker 4: Great.

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Speaker 2: Tell me your fascination. We'll talk about the paranormal a

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Speaker 2: little bit later on, but tell me about your fascination

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Speaker 2: with true crime.

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Speaker 3: Well, it actually stems from my connection with the paranormal.

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Speaker 3: I was fortunate enough to investigate some haunted locations connected

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Speaker 3: with crimes, and I find the crime aspect of it,

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Speaker 3: the criminal aspect of it, every bit is fascinating. As

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Speaker 3: I did the paranormal. It speaks to the psychology of

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Speaker 3: why humans do what they do under the most difficult

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Speaker 3: and extremely circumstances. So understanding what makes other people in

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Speaker 3: ourselves tick something we all have.

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Speaker 4: An interest in, right, Richard.

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Speaker 2: How prevalent is it where somebody kills a member of

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Speaker 2: their own family. Does that happen a lot scarily often?

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Speaker 4: George? I mean, we have this huge fascination of the.

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Speaker 3: Culture of serial killers that way, and I've written a

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Speaker 3: couple of books on that subject.

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Speaker 4: Myself.

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Speaker 3: Can't turn on a streaming service without seeing a documentary

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Speaker 3: about it. We speak to our interest in the serial murder,

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Speaker 3: but the reality of it is you are four times

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Speaker 3: more likely if you live in the United States, can

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Speaker 3: be killed by a stranger. A huge a to be

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Speaker 3: killed by someone you know, then you are to be

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Speaker 3: killed by a stranger. There's often certainly an acquaintance or

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Speaker 3: a friendship or a familial connection in so many of

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Speaker 3: these cases. This is why the police, whenever there is

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Speaker 3: a homicide, first suspect is usually a close family.

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Speaker 2: Member, and they generally find out who did it by

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Speaker 2: looking at the family member, don't they.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's unfortunate, but if you're you know, if

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Speaker 3: you see stripes, you should sing zebras. And what I

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Speaker 3: mean by that is whenever a man or a woman

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Speaker 3: goes missing, the husband, wife's spouse is usually the person

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Speaker 3: that detectives pay the most attention to, because quite often

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Speaker 3: that's where the search ends.

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Speaker 2: In most cases, let's take serial killers, they're pretty random.

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Speaker 2: It's people in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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Speaker 2: But a general murder, how often do you think the

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Speaker 2: victim knows the assailant?

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Speaker 3: Well, we actually have some pretty good steps on that

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Speaker 3: thanks to the US Bureau of Justice. That's George, and

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Speaker 3: they've looked at this and it's kind of shocking when

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Speaker 3: you think about it. So for the years nineteen ninety

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Speaker 3: three through two thousand and eight, for example, here in

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Speaker 3: the United States, between twenty one and twenty seven percent

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Speaker 3: of homicides were carried out by a complete stranger, stranger

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Speaker 3: on stranger. Seventy three to seventy nine percent of the

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Speaker 3: homicides happened between people who had some kind of pre

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Speaker 3: existing relationship. Now that includes colleagues and things of that nature, right,

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Speaker 3: but quite often it's friends, family members, and in a frightening.

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Speaker 4: Number of cases, love us.

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Speaker 3: And they call this, you know, intimate violence into upond

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Speaker 3: the violence which is an epidemic and happened for many years.

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Speaker 2: Richard, what's happening in the United States right now? As

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Speaker 2: there seems to be so much crime? People breaking into cars,

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Speaker 2: smashing windows. Somebody told me at a church meeting in

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Speaker 2: Saint Louis, fifty cars were broken into. Well, people were

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Speaker 2: in church. These assailants broke cars. I don't know what

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Speaker 2: they're trying to find inside of a car, But why

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Speaker 2: is that kind of crime so prevalent?

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Speaker 3: I don't think this is a uniquely US phenomenon, George.

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Speaker 3: I mean I hear the same stories coming out of

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Speaker 3: my friends and family in the UK and also in Europe.

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Speaker 3: So I think what we're seeing is an increasingly stretched

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Speaker 3: police force. We're seeing an increased willingness to commit crimes,

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Speaker 3: and we're seeing sent can thing that it's perhaps not

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Speaker 3: as severe as it once was. And I also think

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Speaker 3: that we as a society we're kind of guilty of

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Speaker 3: glorifying the criminal. You know, there's this whole idea that

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Speaker 3: it's kind of cool to in certain quarters anyway, to

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Speaker 3: engage in that kind of behavior. So if consequence is

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Speaker 3: relatively low, if that I hate to use this word

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Speaker 3: gain and glory is relatively high, I mean, it's no

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Speaker 3: surprise that people are going to do that, especially if

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Speaker 3: there's a likelihood they'll get away with it. We'll get

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Speaker 3: a slap on the rest to dimin it in.

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Speaker 2: Most of those kind of assailants are younger kids. What

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Speaker 2: happened to the parental responsibility?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think that there are a lot of parents

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Speaker 3: out there that are doing the best they can with

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Speaker 3: what they have. There are a lot of single parent families,

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Speaker 3: and you know, my mom was a single mom raising me.

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Speaker 4: Growing up in the seventies.

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Speaker 3: That's a full time job, and it's a tough and

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Speaker 3: challenging job.

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Speaker 4: You know, we live in a day and age.

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Speaker 3: Now where it's it's increasingly difficult to.

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Speaker 4: Parent a child.

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Speaker 3: Well, times have changed, resources are fewer, and a lot

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Speaker 3: of parents, I think, don't feel like they were ever

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Speaker 3: qualified or trained.

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Speaker 4: In how to parents.

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Speaker 2: Richard NBC's Dateline has been featuring a number of crime

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Speaker 2: stories over the past several months, murders and the bizarre stories.

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Speaker 2: There seems to be a lot of interest in that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that we're we're perennially fascinated with that

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Speaker 3: kind of thing, aren't we The idea that we can

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Speaker 3: kind of vicariously understand this stuff, that we can experience

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Speaker 3: it at secondhand in a safe kind of way. And

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Speaker 3: I think the reason true crime has always been so

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Speaker 3: popular as well is we like to see how we

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Speaker 3: would would we have spotted these people ourselves? Would we

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Speaker 3: have we've become victims of the crime ourselves? Would we

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Speaker 3: have been able to evade or avoid it? I think

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Speaker 3: that explains why so many of us.

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Speaker 4: Find this so interesting.

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Speaker 2: How has the murderer developed how is he created and

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Speaker 2: at what point in his life or her life do

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Speaker 2: they become the killer?

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Speaker 3: Well, that's the question, isn't it, Because murderer is a

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Speaker 3: broad enough term.

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Speaker 4: I mean, on the one hand, you and I.

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Speaker 3: Have talked on this show about serial killers. We've had

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Speaker 3: the great time on a debate of is it nature

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Speaker 3: over nurture one or the other? And I think it's

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Speaker 3: actually kind of a perfect storm of both in those cases.

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Speaker 3: For this newer book, I've been looking at more personal,

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Speaker 3: family related intimate murder and the motivations to that. Our manifold.

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Speaker 3: What's unfortunate is I think that there's such a link to.

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Speaker 4: Male anger.

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean by that is that ninety

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Speaker 3: percent I believe of kind of intimate violence and murder

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Speaker 3: is carried out by an aggressive, controlling, domineering male. And

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Speaker 3: sometimes there are red flags. Usually there are red flags,

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Speaker 3: but they aren't always reported or they aren't always acted upon.

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Speaker 2: Is it a crime of passion most of the time?

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Speaker 3: You know, sometimes quite often we see a female that

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Speaker 3: is trying to get out of an abusive relationship that

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Speaker 3: has been suffering for years, sometimes months years, and is

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Speaker 3: trying to get out and the male who is psychologically

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Speaker 3: out of control, takes an attitude of well, if I

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Speaker 3: can't have you, nobody can. And despite the fact that

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Speaker 3: there may be protective orders, restraining orders, things of that nature,

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Speaker 3: those don't always act as the the terrence we would

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Speaker 3: want them to.

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Speaker 4: The male snaps and it ends in a tragedy.

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Speaker 2: Why can't he just walk away, Richard, instead of murdering

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Speaker 2: the girlfriend or the wife.

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Speaker 3: It's a fantastic question, isn't it. Why can't they just

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Speaker 3: walk away? Why can't they accept responsibility to so many

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Speaker 3: aspects of their lives? When we look at these individuals,

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Speaker 3: you know, and the numbers don't lie. If it sounds

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Speaker 3: like I'm beaten up on men, well, firstly I am one.

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Speaker 3: But secondly, the numbers don't lie. This is an overwhelmingly

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Speaker 3: male phenomenon, and we should ask ourselves. We're raising some

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Speaker 3: pretty angry young men, right. You talked about crime, George,

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Speaker 3: and we're seeing a lot of that out there on

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Speaker 3: the streets. As an angry young man myself, a lot

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Speaker 3: of that aggression was directed down a more healthier path

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Speaker 3: in the military, you know, I was fortunate enough to

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Speaker 3: be in the British Territorial army, and I got to

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Speaker 3: channel that in a good way, a productive way.

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Speaker 4: But that outlet is.

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Speaker 3: It's not something we see all the time. So we

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Speaker 3: see these angry young men growing up to become angry

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Speaker 3: middle aged men. They either don't get told no, they

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Speaker 3: don't understand boundaries, and before we know it, they're out

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Speaker 3: of control and it ends violently and in tears. So

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Speaker 3: we need to look at the way we're raising this generation,

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Speaker 3: but primarily look at the way we're using apps boys.

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Speaker 4: To become men. What do they have?

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Speaker 2: Is is it mental or is it physical? I mean,

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Speaker 2: is there some kind of hormonal imbalance?

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Speaker 3: I think you'd look at the sheer explosion in this.

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Speaker 3: Is there a hormonal component to it? I mean, I

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Speaker 3: think what it is is primarily uncontrolled anger. You know again,

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Speaker 3: aggression is present in everyone. We've all had that moment

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Speaker 3: where somebody cuts off in traffic and just for that

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Speaker 3: split second, you know we're on the edge of a

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Speaker 3: road rage reaction, and of course the vast majority of

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Speaker 3: people don't follow through on it. Maybe we swear, you know,

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Speaker 3: we don't get engaged in an incident because we all

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Speaker 3: know that those can end in tragedy. The kind of

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Speaker 3: personality though that take that next step, that give into their.

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Speaker 4: Anger, that fuel their anger, they.

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Speaker 3: Tend to take it out on them nearest and dearest.

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Speaker 4: I'm a paramedic by.

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Speaker 3: Profession, and one thing that most medical professionals will tell

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Speaker 3: you is this Super Bowl Sunday or major sporting events, holidays,

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Speaker 3: we see a huge spike in domestic violence. And again

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Speaker 3: it comes with the swell of strong emotion and frustration,

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Speaker 3: tense up rage, and it's tragically directed against the nearest

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Speaker 3: and dearest, the very people that should be protected the

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Speaker 3: most by these individuals.

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Speaker 2: And aren't these individuals thinking of the ramifications that they're

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Speaker 2: going to get caught?

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Speaker 3: I think when the blinding rage comes over so many

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Speaker 3: of them, they they are caught in that moment of

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Speaker 3: they're driven entirely by anger, driven by fury, driven by rage,

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Speaker 3: and we see the consequences of that can play out

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Speaker 3: over a long period of time. Sometimes we look at

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Speaker 3: the phenomenon of stalking. You know, we have again so

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Speaker 3: many tragic cases of female that did escape an abusive relationship.

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Speaker 3: Also they thought only to be stalked by the individual

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Speaker 3: that was abusing them. And despite their very best efforts

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Speaker 3: in the world to start over. It ends in a homicide.

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Speaker 3: Months sometimes she is down the line.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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Speaker 1: one am Eastern, and go to Coast to cooastam dot

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Speaker 1: com for more