1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Native lamdpod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: Reason Choice Media. 3 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome. 4 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: Hey everyone, and welcome to Native Lampod, as we say, 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: welcome home. Today is a show that is very different 6 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 1: from me. I normally spend most of my time really 7 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,959 Speaker 1: analyzing what's happening and what is the current state of 8 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: affairs in the United States of America with our government, 9 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: with everything that's happening here. But today is different because 10 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: I wanted to go overseas. There is quite the crisis 11 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: brewing in Tanzania, and it's something that caught my eye 12 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 1: and I want to start here where many of us 13 00:00:42,280 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: would least expect with this TikTok bance. The dance was 14 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: conducted by a TikTok and social media influencer by the 15 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: name of Jennifer Niffer Jovin. She was jailed in Tanzania 16 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: and charged with treason on November seventh, along with more 17 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 1: than ninety other gen Zers. And the woman that you 18 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: saw crying right after that dance was her mother. Her 19 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: mother who pled for the government to give her daughter 20 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: a break. Her mother said, my name is Mamanisha Isaac, 21 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 1: I beg for forgiveness. I also did not like what 22 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: she did, and I am asking for forgiveness on behalf 23 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 1: of the entire family. My daughter is the breadwinner for 24 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: the entire family. We all depend on her, and we 25 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: ask you to forgive her and forgive us. And what 26 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: is remarkable about this is you might be saying, well, 27 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: what does this TikTok dance have to do with any 28 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: of this? 29 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 2: Why would her mother beg for forgiveness? 30 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: Well, see, the the election in this country was held 31 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: on October twenty ninth. The president, the current president is 32 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: Sama Hassan, and she won that election allegedly by ninety 33 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: five percent of the votes. Gen Ziers have been motivated, 34 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: have been on the ground, have been fighting back, had 35 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,399 Speaker 1: been pushing back a country that is known mostly more 36 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 1: for its silence when you compare it to its counterpart 37 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: in Kenya. And so this time, folks who have studied 38 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 1: what's happening on the ground in Tanzania said you shouldn't 39 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: have mistaken their silence for peace, and so folks hit 40 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: the streets. What Jennifer is being charged with is treason. 41 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: She's being charged with treason because one. They said that 42 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: the music that the dance video was set to was 43 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: offensive to President Hassan, that the president took offense to 44 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: the content, and she was then arrested. Jennifer was then 45 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: arrested alone, longside twenty one others who participated in what 46 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:08,079 Speaker 1: they called an anti government demonstration. Now, her lawyer has 47 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 1: said that she's charged with treason for allegedly encouraging people 48 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: to buy face masks to protect themselves from tear gas. 49 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 1: She encouraged people to buy face mass to protect themselves 50 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 1: from tear gas. If she's convicted of conspiracy to commit 51 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: treason in Tanzania, that is a charge that is punishable 52 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: by death by hanging. So this is all happening right. 53 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: A week before the election in Tanzania, the government banned 54 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: the use of X again. October twenty ninth was the 55 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: date of those elections, where the president was said to 56 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: have won by ninety five percent of the vote. There 57 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: is an opposition lee who has also been jailed in Tanzania, 58 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: and I want to just read you briefly what Chairman 59 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: Tundulisu said on X again, the platform that was banned 60 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: by this country a week before the election, but on 61 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: October twenty sixth, which also happens to be my birthday. 62 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: The chairman had this to say, my brothers and sisters, 63 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: and I hopefully we can pull it up for our 64 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: screen as well, my brothers and sisters. For several weeks now, 65 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: I have been placed under total isolation, a state of 66 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 1: forced loneliness. The fellow inmates who once shared my sale, 67 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: all of whom had been sentenced to death, have been removed. 68 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: I have been left completely alone. My cell is now 69 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: fitted with the surveillance cameras that record everything I do, 70 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: even when I relieve myself or change clothes. 71 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 2: I no longer have. 72 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: Any privacy whatsoever is a matter of security. It is 73 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: a deliberate act meant to humiliate my human dignity. I appeal. 74 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: I appeal for this matter to be raised loudly and forcefully, 75 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: because it is a blatant violation of human rights and 76 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: an offense under the United Nations Standard Minimum Rules for 77 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:25,239 Speaker 1: the Treatment of Prisoners, the Mandela Rules, which clearly state 78 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: that the inherent dignity of every human being must be 79 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: respected even when imprisoned. Rule one prolonged or indefinite solitary 80 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: confinement that denies a prisoner communication with others amounts to 81 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 1: cruelty and torture Rules forty three and forty four. It 82 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: is also a violation of the Constitution of the United 83 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: Republic of Tanzania Articles twelve and thirteen, which guarantee the 84 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: dignity of every person and prohibit torture or degrading treatment. 85 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: I am prepared to endure any hardship for the sake 86 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: of my belief in justice and the freedom of our people. 87 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: But the humiliation of human dignity can never be acceptable, 88 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: not for me nor for anyone who bears the name 89 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 1: of a human being. 90 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 2: I know. 91 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 1: We also have a clip of the United Nations Human 92 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: Rights spokesman who spoke out about what's happening in Tanzania, 93 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,119 Speaker 1: and we will get to that. But first I would 94 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: like to bring to you all a governance expert who 95 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: has studied what's happened with the elections in Tanzania. Her 96 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: name is Elizabeth Adongo Yogo and she joins us. Now 97 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 1: it's some good pleasure here and we have a little 98 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: bit of a delay, but Elizabeth is with us. 99 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 2: Thank you for being here. 100 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: I want you to talk to us about what you 101 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: saw in the Tanzanian elections. When you went to be 102 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 1: an observer, please tell us what you saw. 103 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 3: So I watched Tanzania on the twenty eighth, the twenty seventh, 104 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 3: we were going, all the observers were going for the 105 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 3: brief from the ee Neck offices, which is a known 106 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 3: for every election observation mission. And so when you got there, 107 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 3: we found that there were not any brief materials, no documentation, 108 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 3: and even the chair of the IPECH that is the 109 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 3: Independence National and Electional Commission, was not there to talk 110 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 3: to us. And so that team that had come from 111 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 3: Kenya from other missions, because I was I was representing 112 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 3: the African Liberal Network. There's a team from the East 113 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 3: African Community and Armand's other conglomination. They saw what was 114 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 3: happening and they say they could not be there because 115 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 3: that was a direct violation of I mean, no election 116 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 3: happens like that. There must be some order for every election. 117 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 3: And so when they left, I decided to stay back 118 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 3: and just report for I had seen, because I thought 119 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 3: maybe there could be other issues that were beyond their 120 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 3: patron and that's why the briefing wasn't done. So I 121 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 3: sat there for about three four hours and I decided 122 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 3: to just go back to my hotel room and go 123 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 3: back the following day to start to work. So on 124 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 3: the twenty ninth, I woke up very early. Of course, 125 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 3: the elections were starting at seven am. By six thirty 126 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 3: year I was in my stations because I was assigned 127 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 3: to stations. So the first station I went through, there 128 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 3: was no one apart from the election agents, apart from 129 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 3: the police that is the normal police, the security apparatus 130 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:51,319 Speaker 3: that was there, and then me as an observer. Thirty 131 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,559 Speaker 3: minutes went by, nobody was coming to cast their ballot, 132 00:08:54,880 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 3: and it was unsettling because during an election time, what 133 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 3: is eager to I mean to just everybody is normally 134 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 3: eager to just exercise the democratic right. But that wasn't happening. 135 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 3: Thirty minutes later, about a few minutes to eight am. 136 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 3: That was about for five minutes later, I decided to 137 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 3: go to my next station just to see what was 138 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 3: going on. Maybe there was a problem with where I was. 139 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 3: So as I was leaving the station, I saw a 140 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 3: track load of army personnel and it was kind of 141 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 3: scary because every time you see the army, it means 142 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 3: the country is under attack. And I went back in 143 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 3: to compose myself and one of the army guys walked 144 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 3: in and I asked him if there was a problem, 145 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 3: and it was like, no, there's no problem. I was 146 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,079 Speaker 3: just monitoring what's going on. And then I left to 147 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 3: my second station. And now at the second station, it 148 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 3: was clear that the station was under the army. Remember 149 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 3: the first station, I didn't see anyone coming to cast 150 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,559 Speaker 3: their ballot. In the second station, I walked in and 151 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 3: the place was full of army. So that means you 152 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 3: cannot record anything you're seeing. You're just there to serve 153 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 3: and leave. So while there, I counted fifteen ladies only 154 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 3: who are in the queue, either coming out from voting 155 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 3: or somewhere on the queue, and at least there was 156 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 3: some semblance of life. There was something going on there. 157 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,079 Speaker 3: So I stayed back and just see what was going 158 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 3: to happen, like just out the number of people and 159 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 3: maybe talk to them and ask why it is there, 160 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 3: Lord turn of dough. We had no why. And a 161 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 3: few minutes to one to midday, some youth were coming, 162 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 3: you know, just saying there are no elections here. I 163 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 3: cannot have elections, no reforms, no elections, And now everybody 164 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 3: had to run for their dear life, because you know 165 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 3: the army is already there and they armed. Then there 166 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 3: are these protests were there, and then there are people 167 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 3: who are the few women who are the que voting, 168 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 3: so that at that particular point of time, just want 169 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:09,959 Speaker 3: to save your life because there was already a build 170 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 3: up was already building up even in the country. Even 171 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 3: getting into the country itself was a problem. They would 172 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 3: question us so much know what we were going to do, 173 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 3: and I forgot to measure that. Even getting the accreditation 174 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 3: was a big problem, like we wait. We had to 175 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,959 Speaker 3: work for six months, which was very, very unusual. So anyway, 176 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 3: violence happened. And there is a lady, a kind of 177 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 3: lady who stays near where I was going, and I 178 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 3: told her, I am in this place and I may 179 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 3: pass by to see you before I go back home. 180 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 3: Because my brief was go to Tanzania, see what they're doing, 181 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 3: and come back home. Because even in we're going to Tanzania, 182 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 3: there were already issues of when to Tanzania, already told 183 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,439 Speaker 3: that there were demonstrations on that day, so you were 184 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 3: ready for that. So I was just going to Jazania 185 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 3: and see what was happening. And then by three o'clock 186 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 3: take the flight back to Kenya. So I told my 187 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 3: friend that I'll pass me to see you on my 188 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,839 Speaker 3: way to the airport. But now that wasn't to be. 189 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 3: So I decided to go back to the hotel and 190 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 3: just hung out and see how the situation will be. 191 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 3: But when I got to the hotel, that's when I 192 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 3: realized there was no power. There was no water, and 193 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 3: there was no electricity. Remember there is a lam Is, 194 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 3: a very hot city. Were doing about that a two 195 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 3: degrees cetebrate, so you can imagine no aces, no water, 196 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 3: like the basic human needs were not there absolutely, And 197 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 3: so in the evening that ill cares us that they 198 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 3: don't work foreigners in there, meaning we're on our own. 199 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 3: So I went to my friend's house. It was very risky, 200 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 3: but I had to move because I couldn't stay while 201 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 3: you already told you can't, you can't, you can't be there. 202 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 3: So I went to my friend's house and that we 203 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 3: stayed there. That night. We could not sleep because I 204 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 3: just gun shots all over. The guy just went shooting 205 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 3: a furtherly like the the brief was if you see 206 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 3: anything moving, shoot at it. Yeah. So that was Wednesday, 207 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 3: Thad the same thing. On Friday, something dramatic happened to us. 208 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,559 Speaker 3: I was in the bathroom taking my shower that day 209 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 3: we had the water. What I came on that day, 210 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 3: the day the day that the President Samye Sluapin sworn in. 211 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 3: They gave us, they gave us. I was in the 212 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 3: shower and I had my phone and I was listening 213 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 3: to music, and so my mind was just there. And 214 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 3: shortly after the lady I'm living with comes to where 215 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 3: I was screaming that how they hurt you? Have they 216 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 3: hurt you? Are you okay, Lizay, You're okay? Nothing? What's 217 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 3: going on? And she tells me these people are shooting 218 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 3: at us in the house. So when we checked the house, 219 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 3: we found the they're known as cartridges, spent bullets. They 220 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 3: were shooting at us in the bathroom and they could 221 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 3: get into the house. That's how bad the situation was 222 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 3: inters near. Remember that time, there's no internet and there's 223 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 3: no power, so we cannot communicate with anybody, and people 224 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 3: at home are really worried about us, and we were 225 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 3: just there. You cannot seek any help. But by good luck, 226 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 3: I don't know what my daughter did, and somehow I 227 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 3: saw her phone call coming through and it was like 228 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 3: seeing God. Literally we was tacked. So I just tell her. 229 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 3: I just told her I'm in this location, like the 230 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 3: nearby what is it called the nearby sign that I 231 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 3: could get like a landomark, the nearby landmark. It was 232 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 3: near a church. And I tell her, if you talk 233 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 3: to anybody, tell them I am near this church. And 234 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 3: so that is how. Now my husband had to speak 235 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 3: to the foreign affairs foreign affairs in turns are near 236 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 3: and other agencies. And I got out of there on 237 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 3: a Sunday morning. So when I was lifted to my Robbie, 238 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 3: so as we were leaving the house through the airport, 239 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 3: there were two groups of people. There were, of course, 240 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 3: there were roadblocks monitored by two groups of people. One 241 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 3: was the army itself. Yeah, and whenever I passed them, 242 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 3: they will tell me. They will ask me who I was, 243 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 3: and I will tell them a man, observe, I'm going 244 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 3: back to my country and don't question me and tell 245 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 3: me that don't say what you've seen here, and I'll say, no, 246 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 3: I don't have any issues. I just want to go 247 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 3: back home, you know. Then again I will meet protesters 248 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 3: and they will tell me when when you get to 249 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 3: like Robbies safely, tell the world what is happening in Tanzania. Remember, 250 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 3: I could pass bodies, dead bodies of children and women 251 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 3: on the streets we were going to the airport. There 252 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 3: was a lot of damage done by the protesters, you know, 253 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 3: they running battles and on the marketplaces, the bus stops. 254 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 3: There was a lot of damage done. But what was 255 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 3: striking or the dead bodies and they were just lying 256 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 3: on the streets and they really didn't care that particular time. 257 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 3: They were just I think they just the immediate or 258 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 3: their priority was just to ensure that the president was enthroned. 259 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 3: That's all they cared able. They didn't care about anybody. 260 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 3: And yeah, it was not a very good site. Closed 261 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 3: one horrific and terrible week. 262 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: Elizabeth, what what was the reason what pulled you to 263 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 1: Tanzania to be an election observer? Why would you risk 264 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: your life, really truly risk your life to go and 265 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: ensure that you could see what was happening there? That 266 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: would that would make you leave and say to the protesters, 267 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 1: I will go back and tell the world what I 268 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: saw in Tanzania. 269 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 2: What drove you to do that? 270 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 3: One of my reasons forget Tanzania was that everybody was 271 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 3: shying away from going there. Given before the elections. We know, 272 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 3: you know, the arrests of the of the opposition leaders, 273 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 3: the disappearances of the people, the civil society are people 274 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 3: and so the haarbituary arrest of anybody who was against 275 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 3: the government. So Tanzania is my neighbor, and not ever 276 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 3: affects Tazania affects me as a person as I was 277 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 3: just curious to go and see is it true that 278 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 3: this is happening in Tanzania, Because for a very long time, 279 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 3: Tanzania has been the cool kid of the of the 280 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 3: region in Africa. The country that has been peaceful has 281 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 3: been Tanzania. But I realized it has been a fast 282 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 3: It's not true. They're just peaceful because they're not able 283 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 3: to express themselves. But this time they decided enough was enough. 284 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 3: So I was just going to see is it true? 285 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,719 Speaker 3: What we are? What we are, what we are reading 286 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 3: all the media all Tanzania. That is all drove me 287 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 3: to go there and seeing it firsthand. It opened my 288 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 3: eyes to the problem that not only Tanzania's face, but 289 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 3: the old region is facing. You know, I'm having this 290 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 3: fa sad that all is well. I was saying that 291 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,120 Speaker 3: people are peacefully at people are not peaceful, and they're 292 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 3: not happy with their leadership. 293 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: I'm curious too, and I'm going to be honest with 294 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,199 Speaker 1: you in saying, you know, a lot of what is 295 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 1: happening in America right now is causing me personally to 296 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: look into different governments that have been under authoritarian regimes 297 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:29,360 Speaker 1: and reading about Tanzania's current president, the way in which 298 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 1: the election was one, the ways in which they're trying 299 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: to change the rules around elections here in America, and 300 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 1: the things that we're saying but really have not felt. 301 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 2: The brunt of yet. 302 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: Given your vast experience in this space, can you tell 303 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 1: me and to our audience, what are the signs right 304 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: that a dictator is coming? What are the ways in 305 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: which people have to lean into their power to prevent 306 00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:00,199 Speaker 1: something like this which happens with these slow drips? Are 307 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: the ways that we prepare ourselves and prevent dictatorship from 308 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: coming here? 309 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 3: First of all, I believe that dictators behave like you 310 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 3: know when you're in a relationship with the narcissist. Because 311 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 3: even when this lady came, the whole region was very, 312 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 3: very happy, one of the things that she did was 313 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 3: to do away with the bad law that had been 314 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 3: passed by her predecessor as she embraced the opposition. But 315 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 3: for me, I think in the long run, she was 316 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,159 Speaker 3: just trying to test the waters to see how far 317 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,719 Speaker 3: she could go, and by doing so, she brought everybody 318 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 3: on her side, and everybody who could speak was compromised. 319 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 3: And then when she strived that by bringing bad rules, 320 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 3: you know, by ensuring that they do you know, finally 321 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 3: that the since and party that is the ruling party 322 00:20:54,640 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 3: in Tazania has domicide the elections. For me, like it's 323 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 3: part of the ruling party and nobody can speak against 324 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 3: it because she has given everybody she's done favors for 325 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 3: everybody around her, so you cannot speak. Yeah. And then 326 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 3: now when she was coming for the for the for 327 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 3: the opposition leaders, no one could stop her because everybody 328 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 3: hold her favors. Remember, even there are some Kenyan activists 329 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 3: who are sexually assaulted in Tanzania, but my country didn't 330 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 3: do anything because well, the East African communication and agans 331 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 3: and so I believe we need to strengthen our institutions 332 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 3: such that it doesn't matter who comes the rules that 333 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 3: are there, the structures that are there are the way 334 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 3: they are supposed to be. Nobody messes up with anything 335 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 3: because every time you you you let your guard down, 336 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 3: and notitarian gets a foothold in it, and by the 337 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 3: time you know the system has had people will go 338 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 3: singing her tunes and there's nothing that can be done. 339 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 3: Look at the army, for instance, in Tanzania. Who is 340 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 3: running the army at the moment. Yeah, so when she 341 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 3: tells the army that I need you in the streets, 342 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 3: nobody will question that because they are the aligias. Those 343 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 3: are people that she's been able to buy and to 344 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 3: and to give favors through. Yeah, so my tear. Would 345 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 3: we just have strong independent institutions, strong independent institutions. 346 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow. 347 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: When you think about the role that gen Z played 348 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 1: in the protests in Tanzania, we're starting to see young 349 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 1: people all over the world stand up use their voices 350 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 1: when they see something that's not right there, like this 351 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 1: is not right and I'm speaking up. What do you 352 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 1: say to gen Zers throughout the world who may feel 353 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: apathetic or feel like I don't like politics or I 354 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 1: don't want to get involved with whatever my government is doing. 355 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: What do you say to them to encourage their active participation? 356 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 3: All right, before I speak to them, I noticed that 357 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:27,959 Speaker 3: Genesys are tired of hope. My generation, the millenniums, the millennials, 358 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 3: we've been led by hope, not stuff. They'll just tell 359 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 3: you we are planning to do this, we will do 360 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 3: this for you. But and then also there's a period 361 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 3: of time that you are being told that we are 362 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 3: the leaders of tomorrow. But the time you realize you 363 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 3: are a granny, your time is first spent. And this 364 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,360 Speaker 3: point in power will never leave power for anybody. So 365 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 3: it is upon our children, because Matian also Genesys, to 366 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 3: know that they shouldn't make the same mistakes that we made. 367 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 3: We woke up very late in the day when we 368 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 3: were in our forties to realize, oh my god, as 369 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,680 Speaker 3: you have done better when I was stronger, when I 370 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 3: was younger. Yeah, so they need to check up their 371 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 3: place and do what they need to do for their 372 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 3: various countries. We've seen so many countries pushing for change 373 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 3: through the Genesys. That was Kenya. I remember in Kenya 374 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 3: I June last the other year twenty twenty four, the 375 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 3: Genesys stopped and the finance bill. It was ridiculous, it 376 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 3: was out of touch with the Kenyan reality. But the 377 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 3: Genesys managed to stop that and also the president had 378 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 3: to suck his own cabinot. Okay, then we have the 379 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 3: story of our Madadaskar, we have Tunisia, Tunisia, We have 380 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 3: all these stories of what Genesys are doing in their country. 381 00:24:58,040 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 3: So what they need to do is that they need 382 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 3: to org and I is better because when you are united, 383 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 3: you can do so much more. Most of these gencees 384 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 3: just come together for a certain period, like in our 385 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 3: case in Kenya. After defeating, after dropping, after ensuring that 386 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 3: the government has dropped the finance bill, nothing has happened. 387 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 3: We're having our elections next year. They're not even taking 388 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 3: their voters card. Yeah, So they need to they need 389 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 3: to organize themselves better and get into political parties because 390 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 3: these are I think there are some of the vehicles 391 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 3: that can help them speak in one language. Getting into 392 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 3: political parties will also ensure that they get the leadership 393 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 3: positions in these political parties. In Kenya right now, most 394 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 3: political parties are led by the old people who they 395 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 3: don't they don't speak our language, they don't understand our problems. 396 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,360 Speaker 3: They don't understand our struggles. So we can organize better 397 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 3: by number one, getting into this political parties and also 398 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 3: deciding as young people, who are we putting in power, 399 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 3: Somebody that carries our variations with them, Somebody that understands 400 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 3: where we are coming from and what we want for 401 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 3: our various countries. But imagine, Africa is the richest continent 402 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 3: in the entire world in terms of human resource, in 403 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:28,640 Speaker 3: terms of our minerals, oil and everything you can mention. 404 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 3: But why is it that the African youth is coming 405 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 3: to the West to build the West while our countries 406 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 3: are wallowing in poverty with all these immense wealth that 407 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 3: we are having. So it is upon us to stay 408 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 3: at home, fight from within, fight for our right full places, 409 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 3: and ensure that things work for us the way they 410 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 3: ought to. Don't even need to be taking loans from 411 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 3: IMF and World Bank and all these things. We can 412 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 3: be sufficient. Look at what Botswana is doing right now. 413 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 3: They paid all their low and now we're managing their countries. 414 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 3: Are fair with the internal, with the one that they 415 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 3: have internally, So we really don't need to look to 416 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 3: look fat to look east. We can make our home. 417 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, Elizabeth, I just am so grateful for your time today, 418 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: uh sharing your governance expertise with Native Lampid. I certainly 419 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: hope this is the beginning of a great relationship. I 420 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: look forward to learning from you. I hope that we 421 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: can take and hear from your leadership, your wisdom, what 422 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: you've seen in your own home country of Kenyuar. It 423 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: is very late, so I recognize your sacrifice, and I 424 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 1: just hope that we can stay in touch and keep 425 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 1: growing the diaspora, because all black people to come together, 426 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: not just in Africa, but across the board. 427 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, I believe. I believe it's time 428 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 3: because most of the time the stories that go out 429 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 3: about Africa are stories of war, stories of diseases, sortes 430 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 3: of farmin and throat. We have so many beautiful things 431 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 3: that we also do in Africa that if, like those 432 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 3: Selsaniels are telling me, go back and tell and share 433 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,439 Speaker 3: our story with the world. I believe Africa has a 434 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 3: good story and with collaboration, we can both learn from 435 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 3: each other and get best practices that work for everybody. 436 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, indeed, Well you have a beautiful night, and 437 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me today. 438 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 3: Thank you Thank you so much. Thank you God, bless. 439 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 2: God, bless you, well everyone. 440 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: I wanted to do exactly that because sometimes we have 441 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: to take ourselves outside of our circumstance and what is 442 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: facing us to understand how we get through, what our 443 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: journey is, what mistakes were made in other parts of 444 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: the world, what mistakes are happening, What trials, tribulations, trauma 445 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: are happening that we can learn from. 446 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 2: How can we be good global neighbors. 447 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: And not just be so focused on our current set 448 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: of circumstances that we're not paying attention to what's happening 449 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: in the rest of the world. 450 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 2: You know, I thought it was important. 451 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: To do this because I was frustrated by a comment 452 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: that was made by a celebrity many of us know well, 453 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 1: and at least it came out earlier this week. I 454 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 1: don't know when it was actually stated or at the 455 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: end of last week, but I want to play that 456 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: clip because I do think it's relevant to what we 457 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: just got done talking about. 458 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 2: This is for real, Williams, as we look at what's. 459 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 4: Going on in the current political climate. I'm just saying 460 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 4: to I want to turn by y'all. I hate politists 461 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 4: life inspires them. It is it's a magic trick that 462 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 4: it's not rare. I don't believe that he decide. So 463 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 4: I think when you take a side, are only you 464 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 4: know if you are inverting the supporting division. Guess it's 465 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 4: not a popular point of view. 466 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 5: But I just got to say that I think about it. 467 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 4: The wells are drying up and then okay, now the 468 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 4: diversity is off the table, not equities off the table, 469 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 4: not inclusions off the table. 470 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 5: So that makes me ask myself a picture on how 471 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 5: do we survive? Well, are there black people here that tonight? 472 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 3: Yea? 473 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 5: And in your part do you think for. 474 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 4: What it is that you do and who you are? 475 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 5: Do you think you're the best? Okay? 476 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 4: So do you want the job because you're black, but 477 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 4: because you're the best. 478 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 5: Do you want someone to support your startup because you're black, 479 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 5: but because you're the best? 480 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 3: Right? 481 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 4: So I think now for me, it's about us having 482 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 4: the best ambition. 483 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 5: That's the reason why you should apport should support these businesses. 484 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 4: Yes, they happen to be death and. 485 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 5: Brown, but it should be based on the pieces. 486 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 4: That were the best, not because we are a total 487 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 4: shade of a skin cup. 488 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 5: That's a point of view that I have now and 489 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 5: then like that I'm resting on in the diversity, equity 490 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 5: and inclusion never comes back in styles cool. I'm going 491 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 5: to focus on being the best because I can think 492 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 5: on that, because that's what's going to get you a 493 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 5: position where you know, I don't want you to give 494 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 5: me anything. 495 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 4: I want you to I want you to panic and 496 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 4: not letting opport because. 497 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 5: I'm the best. 498 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: So I appreciate that Parrella and I can have difference 499 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: of opinion, but what I don't believe we can have 500 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 1: is a different set of facts. He is allowed to 501 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: hate politics. He's allowed to believe that politics is a 502 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: magic trick that you have to pick a side, and 503 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: a lot. 504 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 2: Of ways you do right. 505 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: We exist in a land of the the yays and 506 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: the nays. When members of Congress take votes, when state 507 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 1: legislators take votes, you. 508 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 2: Either yes or no. You could not vote. 509 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: Maybe people can vote present right in some of these votes, 510 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: but you do have to pick aside. And unfortunately for us, UH, 511 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: this is the most dangerous time in our nation's history, 512 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: at least that I can remember. 513 00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 2: When I talk to my parents. 514 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: About whether or not they've seen something that's been bad, 515 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: my dad said, and I quote, hell, no. 516 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 2: Right, he hasn't seen anything this bad. 517 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: And so what I have to wrestle with, or when 518 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 1: I would invite us to wrestle with, is what it's 519 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: going to take to get people to believe that not 520 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: picking a side is safer, right, that that believing that 521 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: hating politics is enough to allow politics and the policy 522 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: making process to hate you, which is where Pharell ended 523 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: up landing when he got into the diversity, equity and 524 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: inclusion conversation. 525 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 2: There's a reason why Pharrell. 526 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: Had, you know, this monumental fashion show with Louis Vauton. 527 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: He is one of one in a million, right, He's 528 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: he's made He's made. 529 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 2: History as a Louis Vuitton. 530 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: I believe is creative director with Louis Vuitton right now, 531 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: and Lolo, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but 532 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: I believe that's his role in I think he's the 533 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: first black man to occupy that seat, right, if not 534 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: the first, only the second. 535 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 2: There's a reason for it, and it's not because Farrell 536 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 2: doesn't work hard. If y'all watch the Lego movie, you 537 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 2: know the brother works hard, right. But I think that 538 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 2: what we have to wrestle with truly is when we 539 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 2: pick aside in politics, are we picking our collective advancement. 540 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 2: I don't think that means you have to pick a party. 541 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 2: I do think that means you have to pick an agenda. 542 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,239 Speaker 1: I do think that means you have to pick an 543 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: agenda and roll with the people who can knock out 544 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: most of your agenda. It may not be all, but 545 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: it should be most. It should be more than half. 546 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: It should be a passing grade. And when you talk 547 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: to Elizabeth who damn near lost her life in Tanzania 548 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: merely going to be an election of observer, and I 549 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: am correct that I thought it was Virgil Ablah, that's right, 550 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: who was at off White first. Thank you so much 551 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: for that, So he was the second. What I want 552 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: to acknowledge is that when we talk about people risking 553 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: their lives to vote, we think about it as a 554 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 1: distant memory. We don't think about it as our neighbors 555 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: right overseas who are engaging in these battles every single day. 556 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: That you cannot use the voice of your president to 557 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 1: do a TikTok dance and not be charged with treason, 558 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 1: that you can't warn your neighbors. Hey, I believe tear 559 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,240 Speaker 1: gas is coming around this election. Protect yourselves by a mask, 560 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:30,360 Speaker 1: treason punishable by hanging. No, this country is not there yet, 561 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: But what are we going to do to pick a 562 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 1: side to ensure that's not where we land. I'm not 563 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: saying that the Democratic Party has gotten it right every time, 564 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: far from it, far from it. But what I know 565 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,839 Speaker 1: is that this Republican Party continues to get worse, and 566 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: we have to decide for ourselves whether it's within the 567 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: container of the donkey or the elephant or not. What 568 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: we have to decide is what we're worthy of in 569 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 1: terms of obtaining our freedom. When Elizabeth said today that 570 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 1: she believed that this woman who was just selected as 571 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: a dictator, Samia Shan, that she was testing the waters 572 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: initially she wanted to see how far she could go. 573 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 1: That is what they're doing. We're Project twenty twenty five 574 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: here in this country. Y'all right? When they go out 575 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 1: and say, hey, we're gonna pay the tsos, the TSA 576 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,919 Speaker 1: workers ten thousand dollars bonuses for showing up for going 577 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 1: the extra mile during the shutdown, during the Democrat shutdown 578 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: is what they called it. But they don't feed and 579 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 1: fund the other government workers that did the same thing, 580 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: that went the extra mile. 581 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 2: That picked up the extra shift. It's a divide and 582 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 2: conquer strategy. 583 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 1: Are we sophisticated enough to see that, Why are we 584 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: deciding of the have nots who's worthy of having? Why 585 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 1: can't we decide that all of the have nots are 586 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: worthy to receive because they're alive, because we want them 587 00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,240 Speaker 1: to be well, because we want people to have clean 588 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 1: drinking water, because we want people to be able to 589 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,319 Speaker 1: afford to keep the electricity on, to live somewhere, to 590 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: have some place to stay. Right when we talk about 591 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: the number of people who are compromised, that is also 592 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 1: by design. If they can keep buying off people less 593 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: unless people are able to speak in their integrity. That 594 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,879 Speaker 1: is not a strategy of Donald Trump or even if 595 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,320 Speaker 1: Samia Asan or any other authoritarian leader. 596 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 2: It is the strategy, as Elizabeth said, of a narcissist. 597 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: And so we have to be mindful enough to say, 598 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: we might be uncomfortable with politics right now. 599 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,720 Speaker 2: It might be scary. You don't know what you're putting 600 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 2: at risk. 601 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,840 Speaker 1: It could be your livelihood, your safety, it could be 602 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: your families. I know how scary it is. But what 603 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,759 Speaker 1: we've got to do is step up, stand up, use 604 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 1: our voices to ensure that it doesn't get worse than 605 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: it already is. People right now are having to reapply 606 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 1: for snap benefits, potentially reapply, not recertified, but actually go 607 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: through the whole tedious process of reapplying because they want 608 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 1: to decide who's worthy of eating in this country, y'all. 609 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 2: That's where we're living. 610 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 1: And I know in all of this to hear what 611 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 1: just happened in Tanzania on election day there, which was 612 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: October twenty ninth, we are light years away from that. 613 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: And I don't want us to pit us versus Tanzanians, 614 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 1: or versus Kenyans or anybody else in the world. I 615 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,239 Speaker 1: want us to be mindful of what it looks like 616 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,800 Speaker 1: to help them and also help ourselves, to make sure 617 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: that people get to live in a space where they 618 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,319 Speaker 1: can freely opine, express themselves, run for office and have 619 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:38,240 Speaker 1: a fair chance. 620 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,800 Speaker 2: You know what, it seems like. It seems like the 621 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:42,240 Speaker 2: narciss has never played a sport. 622 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: They don't know what it's like to just you had 623 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: a bad game, you pick yourself up, you try again. No, instead, 624 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,280 Speaker 1: they've got to engage in rigging and threatening and inciting violence. 625 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: Steve Bannon, who was just on some stage saying that 626 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:01,879 Speaker 1: he thinks that if they don't win the twenty six 627 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 1: or the twenty eight elections, some of them are going 628 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 1: to end up in jail. Sure, they blame that on 629 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,320 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party, saying that they're going to be violent 630 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,479 Speaker 1: and prosecute those who disagree with them. I'm sorry, Pam, 631 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,920 Speaker 1: that's not us, that's them over there. We got to 632 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: be clear about that. We've got to be wide eyed 633 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 1: about that. We've already seen what happens when an insurrection happens, 634 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,359 Speaker 1: and he's partned all those folks from January sixth, so 635 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,759 Speaker 1: we can keep going down that dangerous road with Ice 636 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: rays where some of the ICE agents ICE agents aren't 637 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: even really Ice. They are former criminals, reoffending, raping and 638 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 1: kidnapping folks in our streets. Sure, it's not as bad 639 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 1: as in Tanzania as it's been in other cities throughout 640 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: the world, countries throughout the world. But what we should ensure, 641 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 1: we should make damn sure of, is that it doesn't 642 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,880 Speaker 1: get there. That requires us to be informed, that requires 643 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,279 Speaker 1: us to have difficult conversations that requires us to lift 644 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,400 Speaker 1: up our voices the way we want somebody from overseas 645 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 1: to do for us. If we were jailed for treason 646 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 1: for merely telling someone to get an oxygen mask and 647 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,759 Speaker 1: to do a TikTok dance where we were using our 648 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: freedom of expression as a form of creative protest. We 649 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,439 Speaker 1: should all have that right regardless of where we live. 650 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: We should all engage in a political process even when 651 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 1: we hate it. Y'all think I don't like politics right now, 652 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,879 Speaker 1: y'all think I don't hate this right now, I don't 653 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: even recognize this. 654 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,320 Speaker 2: But what I know I deserve. 655 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:36,120 Speaker 1: What I know my people deserve is power, and I'm 656 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:37,879 Speaker 1: not going to rest until we have it. 657 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:39,919 Speaker 2: See y'all next time. Welcome Home. 658 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,400 Speaker 1: Native Lampod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with 659 00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:01,279 Speaker 1: Reason Choice Media. For more podcast ask some iHeartRadio, visit 660 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 661 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:05,880 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.