Speaker 1: Check me out at the annual Black Effect Podcast Festival,
Speaker 1: happening Saturday, April twenty seventh in Atlanta. Live podcasts are
Speaker 1: on deck from some of your favorite shows, including this one,
Speaker 1: Black Tech, Green Money, and also some of the best
Speaker 1: podcasts in the game like Deeply Well with Debbie Brown
Speaker 1: and Carefully Reckless. Atlanta is one of my favorite cities
Speaker 1: in the world. I've lived there for two years. Actually,
Speaker 1: in my worldview, seeing us successful in every industry and
Speaker 1: not having any limits on our potential largely was shaped
Speaker 1: by Atlanta. So to be there with you doing this
Speaker 1: podcast talking about how we build or leverage technology to
Speaker 1: bill wealth. Come on, man, doesn't get better. I want
Speaker 1: to see you there. Get your tickets today at Black
Speaker 1: Effect dot comback Slash Podcast Festival. I'm Will Lucas and
Speaker 1: this is Black Tech, Green Money.
Speaker 2: I'll find so.
Speaker 1: David has committed his life to actualizing a more just
Speaker 1: and equitable world. His resume is page is long, but
Speaker 1: for the sake of this podcast, he's President and CEO
Speaker 1: of the Global Black Economic Forum, focused on reimagining what diverse,
Speaker 1: the equity, inclusion and opportunity looks like in global workspaces
Speaker 1: and marketplaces. As well as achieving the notion of economic justice.
Speaker 2: For black people all over the world. As someone who's
Speaker 2: worked across various sectors like he.
Speaker 1: Has, including public service, business, nonprofit, and more, how does
Speaker 1: Alfonzo believe technology.
Speaker 2: Can be levised to address systemic inequalities.
Speaker 3: I think that leveraging technology driven solutions to address systemic
Speaker 3: inequalities really require collaboration. It requires us to reach across
Speaker 3: sectors that considered challenges against marginalized communities or what marginalized
Speaker 3: communities are facing. What I mean by that is we
Speaker 3: have to look in education, we have to look at
Speaker 3: wealth management, we have to look at policy advocacy, we
Speaker 3: have to look at health equity, we have to look
Speaker 3: at entrepreneurship, and in all of those different sectors we
Speaker 3: can leverage technology driven solutions to a systemic inequality. So,
Speaker 3: as an example, if you look at education, technology can
Speaker 3: provide access to quality education and training, which is really
Speaker 3: essential to economic empowerment and other things that we think
Speaker 3: of when we generally think of education, and the educational
Speaker 3: platforms can really break down barriers to education with marginalized
Speaker 3: communities to support resource challenge public schools and maybe provide
Speaker 3: students with skills and knowledge that can help close the
Speaker 3: wage gap. So you take another example wealth management. Fintech
Speaker 3: innovations such as mobile banking and digital wallets and peer
Speaker 3: to peer lending can expand access to financial services for
Speaker 3: underserved populations, including those with traditional banking accounts and credit intories.
Speaker 3: So by providing alternative financial solutions, technology can help marginalize
Speaker 3: individuals build assets, improve their economic resilience. And then maybe
Speaker 3: we think of a healthcare as another sector. Telemedicine and
Speaker 3: mobile health applications can improve access to healthcare services for
Speaker 3: communities with limited physical access to medical facilities, and so
Speaker 3: if you're living in a remote setting, for example, where
Speaker 3: it's difficult to gain access to other resources that people
Speaker 3: have if they live in urban areas, telemedicine can be
Speaker 3: incredibly helpful in addressing the gaps in healthcare delivery and
Speaker 3: in fact empowering people to take control of their own health.
Speaker 1: You said a couple things in there. I want to
Speaker 1: point out one. You mentioned the phrase wealth management. I
Speaker 1: believe you said wealth generation also, but I'm not positive
Speaker 1: on that one. But I was thinking about reading your background.
Speaker 1: You know, you've been involved in some really groundbreaking legislation.
Speaker 1: Helping push those things, pushing things forward in particularly around
Speaker 1: you know, social and economic systems. Is there an imperative
Speaker 1: for black people to build wealth? Do we have a
Speaker 1: responsibility to build wealth?
Speaker 3: Yes? Yes and yes. Look, as black people, we have
Speaker 3: centuries of colonization, enslavement, and systemic inequality that have impeded
Speaker 3: our ability to gain financial freedom and the dignity that
Speaker 3: we actually deserve. And when we talk about financial management,
Speaker 3: when we talk about wealth generation, often people want to
Speaker 3: divorce it from colonization, they want to divorce it from slavery,
Speaker 3: they want to divorce it from systemic inequality, and we
Speaker 3: can't do that. We have to sort of recognize the
Speaker 3: systems that we operate within and how important it is
Speaker 3: that we take our personal liberties and use those liberties
Speaker 3: that we have gained from our ancestors to achieve financial freedom.
Speaker 3: You know, the most recent data from the Federal Reserve Survey,
Speaker 3: I think it indicated during COVID that the wealth gap widened.
Speaker 3: So between twenty nineteen and twenty twenty two, you know this,
Speaker 3: the medium wealth saw an increase. However, the weave gap
Speaker 3: or the wealth gap increase for people who are racial
Speaker 3: minorities and if you put an even finer point on that,
Speaker 3: when Martin Luther King gave a speech on the March
Speaker 3: in Washington in the nineteen sixties, the wealth gap was
Speaker 3: eight to one, and today that wealth gap is twelve
Speaker 3: for me on the other way, Yeah, it's going the
Speaker 3: other way. And as much as people talk about, you know,
Speaker 3: advancements in technology and advancements in economic empowerment and all
Speaker 3: of the other categories, we're seeing this gap increase between
Speaker 3: white and black people. We take another category, housing equity.
Speaker 3: We're seeing that black households chilled, some improved, but we're
Speaker 3: also seeing a gap with respect to home equity, whether
Speaker 3: black people actually have the ability to purchase homes and
Speaker 3: hold onto those homes. We're seeing existing and exacerbating disparities.
Speaker 3: So what I would say to your question is, we
Speaker 3: have to think about the centuries of systemic discrimination in
Speaker 3: public policy and financial practices, in societal norms that have
Speaker 3: hindered our ability to acquire black wealth. And it's all
Speaker 3: of our individual and collective responsibilities to address that, not
Speaker 3: only through structural reforms, but also our individual actions.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to ask this a different way. You're
Speaker 1: saying it's not okay, then to be comfortable with your
Speaker 1: little salary taking care of you and your little house.
Speaker 1: Is that safe to say?
Speaker 3: That is safe to say? You know that is safe
Speaker 3: to say because you know, I have to often think
Speaker 3: about the work that I do and why I continue
Speaker 3: to do with what motivates me to do this work,
Speaker 3: And I often think back to our ancestors and the
Speaker 3: folks that were killed, that were murdered in order for
Speaker 3: us to be in the position that we're in. So
Speaker 3: just putting that lens on and thinking about the responsibility
Speaker 3: that we have to further advance the interests of marginalized
Speaker 3: communities and specifically black people. Not only do we owe
Speaker 3: it to ourselves, but the systems that we operate in
Speaker 3: were intentionally created to oppress us. So you're either going
Speaker 3: to be subjugating yourself to a process and a system
Speaker 3: that exists to oppress you, or you're going to work
Speaker 3: to overcome those systems collectively as a community and also individually.
Speaker 2: I like that. I like that.
Speaker 1: So when you think about black entrepreneurship in those even
Speaker 1: using technology or building technology black entrepreneurship, what, in your
Speaker 1: opinion are some of the most pressing issues and concerns
Speaker 1: facing us.
Speaker 3: Well, I think what you would hear most often from
Speaker 3: folks that operate in these spaces is acsets to capital,
Speaker 3: access to capital, access to capital, access to capital. We
Speaker 3: have black entrepreneurs all over the world, all over this country,
Speaker 3: often facing challenges in accessing access to startup capital, including
Speaker 3: venture capital funding. You may know this, Black women, women
Speaker 3: of color business founders received only zero point zero three
Speaker 3: eight percent of venture capital dollars. So to put that
Speaker 3: in context, two hundred and eighty eight billion dollars is
Speaker 3: allocated each year through the venture capital infrastructure, and of
Speaker 3: the two hundred and eighty eight billion dollars, only zero
Speaker 3: point three eight percent those are women of public. That
Speaker 3: is something that should be alarming to all of us.
Speaker 3: So if you want to start your own business and
Speaker 3: you're looking for investors, you're looking for people to actually
Speaker 3: support you and grow that business, it's going to be
Speaker 3: difficult for you to find that in the current infrastructure.
Speaker 3: So access to capital is incredibly important and one of
Speaker 3: the main obstacles that we face. The second I would
Speaker 3: say is market access and contracts. Black owned technology companies
Speaker 3: often encounter challenges in securing contracts and assessing markets dominated
Speaker 3: by large or more established firms, so they have to
Speaker 3: overcome those barriers every single day. And we have to
Speaker 3: think about how we foster supply diversity initiatives. What I
Speaker 3: mean by that for those who may not know, you know,
Speaker 3: if I run a company, I usually I'm in the
Speaker 3: business also of buying products and services. If I'm buying
Speaker 3: products and services and I'm only buying products and services
Speaker 3: from non black people or non people of color, that's
Speaker 3: going to exacerbate the problem. So this idea of market
Speaker 3: access and contracts is incredibly important. And I would say
Speaker 3: another challenge is global digital divide. You know, digital inclusion
Speaker 3: efforts like ensuring access to soft and hard infrastructure can
Speaker 3: really help bridge the digital divide from marginalized communities, but
Speaker 3: that's often quite difficult to do because we don't have
Speaker 3: access to it. And then I would say, finally, we're
Speaker 3: talking about building collaborative infrastructures and systems, and we don't
Speaker 3: have that ability in many cases because we're excluded from
Speaker 3: the process. So bringing together stakeholders from government, from industry,
Speaker 3: from the non for profit sector to help create a
Speaker 3: supportive ecosystem for black entrepreneurs in tech is also I
Speaker 3: think a significant barrier.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you mentioned contracting because I want to
Speaker 1: ask you about that and because you teed that up.
Speaker 1: You know, outside of what I do here, I have
Speaker 1: a small business also, and we've been as several times.
Speaker 1: You know, we participate in bidding processes and typically I
Speaker 1: would avoid that because the barrier to just complete the applications,
Speaker 1: particularly when we talking about governments and whether it's local,
Speaker 1: municipal government or federal. Forget federal, that's a whole other beast.
Speaker 1: But I'm just like, you know, it'll take me a
Speaker 1: month just to respond and then you got to try
Speaker 1: to win it, you know, so you'll spend forty eighty,
Speaker 1: you know, one hundred and twenty hours just trying to
Speaker 1: respond to an RFP and then may not even get it.
Speaker 1: So how do small businesses, particularly black owned small businesses,
Speaker 1: position themselves? And I guess I'm phrasing that in a
Speaker 1: way of is it designed that way to keep us
Speaker 1: out because they know we can't spend the time to
Speaker 1: do this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I had the privilege of serving in
Speaker 3: government for twelve years, and I had the privilege of
Speaker 3: serving as Council to the governor of New York, the
Speaker 3: first black man to have that rule. And you think
Speaker 3: of the State of New York being a progressive place.
Speaker 3: I happen to have the privilege of serving as the
Speaker 3: first black person, black man, I should say to service
Speaker 3: counselors for the governor. There were black women that served
Speaker 3: in that role, but unfortunately I remain the only black
Speaker 3: man to serve in that role. And when I served
Speaker 3: in that role, I had again the privilege of drafting
Speaker 3: and working on legislation that included the Minority and Women
Speaker 3: Owned Business Program. So this is a program that exists
Speaker 3: in New York and other parts of the country. The
Speaker 3: goal is to increase opportunities for minority contractors and women
Speaker 3: contractors to get business with the State of New York,
Speaker 3: and that exists in many other parts of the country. Now,
Speaker 3: to your point, the systems, I believe were created in
Speaker 3: such a burdensome way that it makes it difficult for
Speaker 3: people just to go through the application process. And when
Speaker 3: I was there, one of the key goals that I
Speaker 3: had was how do we demystify this process and how
Speaker 3: do we make it simpler. Now you were here on
Speaker 3: the other side, people say, well, we need to keep
Speaker 3: this process as is, because what can learned about fraud.
Speaker 3: That's the argument why these programs that the application process
Speaker 3: is so difficult, is they argue that we need to
Speaker 3: make sure that we eliminate or reduce or address fraud.
Speaker 3: And I would say that obviously is a legitimate concern.
Speaker 2: So what they say about yeah, exactly, that.
Speaker 3: May be a legitimate concern. But what you can't answer
Speaker 3: for me is why of the billions of dollars we
Speaker 3: have allocated out in contracting, only point x percent are
Speaker 3: going to black and brown people? Why is that? And
Speaker 3: no one was able to answer that question, which is
Speaker 3: why I worked with a large and very talented team
Speaker 3: in advancing that legislation but also breaking down the barriers
Speaker 3: to entry for people right, making sure that it was
Speaker 3: easier for people to get those contracts, and also importantly
Speaker 3: holding the agencies accountable right because in many of these cases,
Speaker 3: the agencies could grant what's called waivers if they couldn't
Speaker 3: find a minority contractor or a woman contractor, they would
Speaker 3: grant a waiver to a white owned business to do
Speaker 3: the work. And what we did when I was in
Speaker 3: government is eliminate that waiver process so that it went
Speaker 3: through an additional review process that agencies didn't have the
Speaker 3: right just to grant those waivers. And I think that's
Speaker 3: what we need in many parts of the country, is
Speaker 3: additional accountability efforts to make sure that market access and
Speaker 3: contracts are actually available to black entrepreneurs who are seeking
Speaker 3: to do business with government agencies around the country.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1: One of the things that we don't talk about, I
Speaker 1: think enough, you know, on this podcast, is addiction. And
Speaker 1: we talk about mental health, we talk about things like that,
Speaker 1: but we don't talk about addiction, particularly in technology often
Speaker 1: and even instrumental in creating treatment centers for addiction and etc.
Speaker 1: And even advancing economic empowerment through policy. And I wonder, like,
Speaker 1: what are the wrap arounds or the rap rounds that
Speaker 1: should be there, or the broken bridges between mental health,
Speaker 1: addiction and financial stability. So, like it was, we don't
Speaker 1: correlate those two often enough in our community.
Speaker 3: There is a direct relationship between financial instability and mental
Speaker 3: health and addiction. We have a huge mental health crisis
Speaker 3: in this country that often gets ignored, and you see
Speaker 3: it exacerbated in large cities. Right if you live in
Speaker 3: a large city like New York City or Los Angeles.
Speaker 3: You may see evidence of mental health on the streets,
Speaker 3: and in some cases not all, but in some cases
Speaker 3: reflected to people who are homeless, and we're not addressing
Speaker 3: that issue sufficiently. In states and cities around the country,
Speaker 3: Underserved communities, including low income neighborhoods and communities of color,
Speaker 3: disproportionately experience and what we call social determinants of health,
Speaker 3: and that really contributes to mental health challenges and addiction
Speaker 3: and financial instability. And if we're not really going to
Speaker 3: address the social determinants of health, it makes it a
Speaker 3: lot more difficult for people to get to that place
Speaker 3: where they can be financially stable. And our communities face
Speaker 3: systemic barriers in addressing health care or accessing as you say,
Speaker 3: health care, accessing education, accessing employment opportunities, supportable housing. So,
Speaker 3: you know, folks often like to talk about mental health
Speaker 3: in a vacuum, but it has to be directly tied
Speaker 3: to healthcare, education, employment, and housing. If I can't afford
Speaker 3: an apartment, I'm more than likely won't be able to
Speaker 3: sustain a job. And if I have a mental health
Speaker 3: challenge and it's not treated, that's going to affect my
Speaker 3: ability to get a job or to hold on to
Speaker 3: a home, and that perpetuates into a vicious cycle of poverty.
Speaker 3: So I had the privilege of helping to create an
Speaker 3: addiction treatment center in Los Angeles that was and remains
Speaker 3: quite successful. And I think we need more of that work,
Speaker 3: and we need more focus on those areas because we
Speaker 3: tend to disaggregate them and think of poverty and mental
Speaker 3: health in one bucket and then financial stability in another.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've had an incredible story. I want to talk
Speaker 1: about a Flanso for a second, just the man, you know,
Speaker 1: the human Talk about mentorship that you've received, and you know,
Speaker 1: what are some of the most important lessons you've learned.
Speaker 3: I've got the privilege of working with and for some
Speaker 3: incredible people who took the time to invest in me.
Speaker 3: And before I even talk about my professional life, I'll
Speaker 3: just talk about my family. Yeah, you know, my parents,
Speaker 3: my uncles, my aunts, my that have taken the time
Speaker 3: and continue to take the time to pour energy and
Speaker 3: love and attention into me and for me, and that
Speaker 3: serves as a foundation in a building block for creating
Speaker 3: the person that I am today. You know, when folks
Speaker 3: say how did you get to this place, I often say,
Speaker 3: not by myself. And I didn't get here alone right
Speaker 3: If my parents were not and I used to call
Speaker 3: them dictators. If they were not such dictators in making
Speaker 3: sure that they pushed us to read and to write
Speaker 3: and to engage in different cultures and different languages, I
Speaker 3: wouldn't have the scope and the perspective that I have today.
Speaker 3: And it wouldn't have led me to practice law. It
Speaker 3: wouldn't have led me to do the work that I've done.
Speaker 3: But when I got into those professional spaces, I also
Speaker 3: found people that invested in me. From Joanne Epps, who
Speaker 3: was the former dean of the Temple Law School where
Speaker 3: I went to law school, or to Clipper Scott Green,
Speaker 3: who was the judge that I clerked for, one of
Speaker 3: the first black judges on the federal bench. And I
Speaker 3: clerked for him, and one of the things that he
Speaker 3: said to me that will always stick with me, he says,
Speaker 3: people often arrived at conclusions with too little evidence. And
Speaker 3: he said that to me in the early two thousands
Speaker 3: when I clerked for him. And I think about that often,
Speaker 3: especially today in an environment where people reach conclusions based
Speaker 3: on a tweet without actually understanding the facts and drawing
Speaker 3: conclusions about marginalized communities that are in many cases faults.
Speaker 3: And that mentorship, in that sponsorship, over the decades that
Speaker 3: I've been doing this work, has really helped not only
Speaker 3: refer mind my approach and my thinking on a lot
Speaker 3: of the work that I do, but also my humanity.
Speaker 3: You know, as we become more successful, it's very easy
Speaker 3: to forget where you come from. It's very easy to
Speaker 3: forget about the person who is less has less opportunities
Speaker 3: than you, because you're constantly moving forward and constantly reaching higher.
Speaker 3: And another mentor told me very early on, be careful
Speaker 3: who you are kind to on your way up. You
Speaker 3: may meet them on your way down. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: And I often think about that ladder because we, yes,
Speaker 3: we have highs and lows in our lives, and we
Speaker 3: always have to think about the humanity that we that
Speaker 3: we exhibit in how we communicate with people, how we
Speaker 3: treat people, and how we live our lives.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 1: And you know, one of the things that your work
Speaker 1: makes me think about the humanity and DEI work and
Speaker 1: it's under attack today, and specifically I want to talk
Speaker 1: about having access to these opportunities like you know, I'm
Speaker 1: on a college board, I'm chair of the board at
Speaker 1: the at a university, and we're faced with you know,
Speaker 1: we can't even ask questions about you know, what's your background.
Speaker 1: You know, when you talk about scholarshiping or donors who
Speaker 1: specifically designated their dollars for black students, we can't do
Speaker 1: that today. And that's across the country and in so
Speaker 1: many other places. Venture capital firms who were set up
Speaker 1: for black people are having challenges and doing this.
Speaker 2: What do we do?
Speaker 1: What do we do to ensure we still have you know,
Speaker 1: distribution channels for opportunity.
Speaker 3: So I think there are a few things that we
Speaker 3: should do. First. I think we need to understand the landscape.
Speaker 3: That is the enough. What I mean by that is
Speaker 3: a permanive option in d and I exists for white people.
Speaker 3: It is called nepotism and it is called legacy.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3: When I was in law school, Danny Reno, who was
Speaker 3: the former Attorney General, came and spoke about affirmative action,
Speaker 3: and she said, I am a product of affirmative action.
Speaker 3: Why because either her father or an uncle or someone
Speaker 3: knew someone at the university that she was ultimately accepted
Speaker 3: into and we don't call it affirmative action, but that's
Speaker 3: what it is. It is sanctioned nepotism and sanctioned promotional
Speaker 3: opportunities for those who are white or who are not black.
Speaker 3: So let's understand the landscape. We need to understand that
Speaker 3: is nepotism and legacy, and that has existed for decades
Speaker 3: and continue to perpetuate this system of inequality. So that's first. Second,
Speaker 3: I think ensuring access to opportunities for historically underserved and
Speaker 3: marginalized groups requires advocacy. It requires policy reform, it requires
Speaker 3: community engagement, and it requires an ongoing commitment to the
Speaker 3: principles that we call DNI. Right, so we have to
Speaker 3: make sure that we're willing to advocate for the idea
Speaker 3: of diversity, equity and inclusion, because what is the alternative.
Speaker 3: The alternative is that we are accepting institutions being non
Speaker 3: diverse and non inclusive, we are accepting workplaces being non
Speaker 3: diverse and non inclusive. We are accepting that we are
Speaker 3: less than Ultimately by refusing to commit to DNI and
Speaker 3: the principles undergirden DNI, what we're saying is that we're
Speaker 3: less than and we know we're not right. We know
Speaker 3: we're not There is no reason why many of these
Speaker 3: boardrooms are not diverse. You can't tell me you cannot
Speaker 3: find a qualified black or brown person to serve on
Speaker 3: a board. You can't find a qualified black a brown
Speaker 3: person to serve as a CEO. You can't find a
Speaker 3: qualified black a brown person to work in your law firm.
Speaker 3: So the advocacy, the policy performed, the community engagement, the
Speaker 3: ongoing commitment to D and I principles are incredibly important
Speaker 3: and understanding the landscape that nepotism is really another word
Speaker 3: for affirmative action. Legacy is another word for affirmative action,
Speaker 3: and we need to understand how all of those principles
Speaker 3: coincide with the pushback that we're getting. Now. We're seeing
Speaker 3: that there's been a lot of progress or some progress
Speaker 3: in education, in business, in finance, and now it's being dismantled.
Speaker 3: And we have to fight against that dismantling of affirmative action,
Speaker 3: against D and I, against inclusive policies because they will
Speaker 3: directly affect all of us.
Speaker 2: So it helped me make sense.
Speaker 1: It is because if you look at qualified studies, you
Speaker 1: know if you have diverse people, you do better in business.
Speaker 1: Those are facts you make more money, which is what
Speaker 1: we are in the belief of like, that's what they want.
Speaker 1: They want to make more money, they want more power,
Speaker 1: more influence. And so if I show you, businessman, business
Speaker 1: woman statistics that say you make more money when you
Speaker 1: have diverse boardrooms, you make more money when you have
Speaker 1: diverse rosters of staff, and then you still I don't
Speaker 1: want to I don't want to use the word hey,
Speaker 1: but do you really not like us that much that
Speaker 1: you are willing to make less to not put us
Speaker 1: at the table?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean you pose the elephant in the room.
Speaker 3: That's the question. There's data that has been issued for decades.
Speaker 3: We have reports after report after report showing the business
Speaker 3: space for diversity, showing that if you have a diverse team,
Speaker 3: you're more successful. If you have a diverse team, you're
Speaker 3: more innovative, If you have a diverse team, you will
Speaker 3: have a more sustainable bottom line over the long term. So,
Speaker 3: if I'm a business leader, or I'm assigning value, financial
Speaker 3: value to diversity, and if I'm not, then I either
Speaker 3: believe that black and brown people are lessening, or I'm
Speaker 3: willing to Negate or not, I'm willing to ignore the
Speaker 3: financial loss. I'm willing to ignore the financial loss that
Speaker 3: my company is going to experience as a result of
Speaker 3: not embracing diversity. Wow. I mean that's how we should
Speaker 3: think about it, because no one is denying the studies.
Speaker 3: No one is saying the studies are wrong. And we're
Speaker 3: talking about Harvard Business School to Mackenzie, They've all issued
Speaker 3: studies showing the value of diversity to companies across the globe.
Speaker 3: And this is not just a US based issue. So
Speaker 3: if I'm a CEO and I ignore that, I either
Speaker 3: believe that black and brown people are less than or
Speaker 3: I'm willing to suffer financial lots.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And and so I've had this conversation.
Speaker 1: This pot casts a lot, and I'm really interested in
Speaker 1: your take on this. So I there's there's two conversations
Speaker 1: to be had. One there is you can go to
Speaker 1: the Apples, the Googles, the Tesla's, the whatevers of the
Speaker 1: world and say you should hire more black people, et cetera, etcetera, etcetera.
Speaker 3: Make that case.
Speaker 1: I personally am not in. I want to build my
Speaker 1: own table. I'm not asking for a seat at nobody's table.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go build my own table. And I recognize
Speaker 1: that there's value in both perspectives, in both efforts, And
Speaker 1: I just wonder what your thoughts are on those two things, right.
Speaker 3: I think we need both and I think you're exactly right.
Speaker 3: Not every single person is an entrepreneur. Not every single
Speaker 3: person has what it takes to be an entrepreneur, to
Speaker 3: be your own boss, to worry about making payments to
Speaker 3: you know, pay corporate taxes four times a year. Not
Speaker 3: everyone has that.
Speaker 2: I know you know what I'm talking about, right, But we.
Speaker 3: Should all have the opportunity to explore the our interest
Speaker 3: in being an entrepreneur. So that's one. The flip side
Speaker 3: is that if we want to work for others, if
Speaker 3: we want to work in an environment that we don't own,
Speaker 3: we should also have the ability to do that. I mean,
Speaker 3: we arguably live in an economy, capitalist structure that's free enterprise,
Speaker 3: which is really fascinating to me. Those who are against
Speaker 3: diversity and inclusion ostensibly support free enterprise. So if you
Speaker 3: support free enterprise in a capitalist structure, why you against
Speaker 3: d and I why are you pushing CEOs to move
Speaker 3: away from diversity? But at the same time say that
Speaker 3: you embrace free enterprise. You can't do both right. You
Speaker 3: either embrace pre enterprise and allow companies to create the
Speaker 3: structures that they deem most appropriate to achieve to advance
Speaker 3: economic opportunity and the bottom line, or you don't. And
Speaker 3: so that's why I find this entire movement against D
Speaker 3: and I intellectually dishonored. It's not really about D and I.
Speaker 3: You know, this is about a fear of a minority
Speaker 3: majority district in a few years. This is about a
Speaker 3: fear of entrepreneurs getting to the point where they have
Speaker 3: so much in resources and access that you can't control them.
Speaker 3: And that's the larger narrative that we're fighting against me.
Speaker 1: In the three minutes I got left, I got two
Speaker 1: more for you. So I one, I want to do
Speaker 1: this real. What is the imperative We have to find
Speaker 1: roads to success for the formerly incarcerated.
Speaker 3: That is one of the most important things we need
Speaker 3: to do. Look, we all know the Rockefeller drug laws,
Speaker 3: the criminal justice laws that have been passed not only
Speaker 3: in the state of New York, but in other parts
Speaker 3: of the country disproportionately impacted people of color. We know
Speaker 3: and many people know how the sentencing structures were different
Speaker 3: if you had cocaine versus crack cocaine, right, and we
Speaker 3: know the impact that it had on communities of color.
Speaker 3: With respect to those who are justice impacted, who are
Speaker 3: largely black and brown, when they are released, we have
Speaker 3: a responsibility to make sure that we open up opportunities
Speaker 3: for them. Otherwise we're simply perpetuating a cycle of mass
Speaker 3: incarceration and disproportionately impacting our communities. When I was in
Speaker 3: the Governor's office, I worked on critical pieces of criminal
Speaker 3: justice reforms, from solitary confinement reforms to legislation to culturial
Speaker 3: courtail allowing minors to be treated as adults in prison.
Speaker 3: We called it raise the Age. And I just feel
Speaker 3: very strongly that, you know, the criminal justice system being
Speaker 3: what it is, we either believe in rehabilitation or we don't.
Speaker 3: We either believe that people can go in, serve their
Speaker 3: time and be released and then serve as contributing members
Speaker 3: of society or and don't. And if we do, then
Speaker 3: we have to make sure we create an infrastructure to
Speaker 3: support them and that them are largely black and brown.
Speaker 1: And the last one is, you know, obviously we having
Speaker 1: a humongous conversation about AI, and I wonder what concerns
Speaker 1: Alfonso about AI and what roads we have to solve
Speaker 1: whatever concerns is that you have, So a little bit
Speaker 1: of a two parter.
Speaker 2: There for you.
Speaker 3: I'm really concerned about AI because I think we often
Speaker 3: think of the challenges that AI presents, but we fail
Speaker 3: to think about the opportunities. And we need to think
Speaker 3: about the opportunities. Now. Now, when you think about the
Speaker 3: challenges that AI presents, we certainly know that in some industries,
Speaker 3: AI will result in eliminating those industries. So you think
Speaker 3: of language access as an example, right, you had companies
Speaker 3: that were providing language access services. Well, pretty soon you
Speaker 3: will be able to and you can in many instances
Speaker 3: communicate on your phone in almost any language. So you
Speaker 3: may not need the same types of services that we
Speaker 3: currently provide or have been providing. But at the same time,
Speaker 3: there are opportunities to expand access to financial services, There
Speaker 3: are opportunities to expand community development, There are opportunities to
Speaker 3: maximize technology, and we as black and brown people, should
Speaker 3: be looking for those opportunities not only to invest, but
Speaker 3: to create our businesses, right, because that is the future. I.
Speaker 3: You know, AI has been with us for a long time,
Speaker 3: and many people say, what is this AI think? And
Speaker 3: I said, look at your phone series AI, and it's
Speaker 3: been there for a while. So as we think about
Speaker 3: technology for the future, I think it's important and imparative
Speaker 3: that we think of investments in this arena and we
Speaker 3: think about how we can take our resources and create
Speaker 3: businesses that can better serve our communities.
Speaker 1: Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity Afro
Speaker 1: Tech from the Black Effect podcast Network in Nightheart Media.
Speaker 2: It's produced by Morgan Debond and me Well Lucas, but
Speaker 2: the additional production support by Sarah Ergan and Love Beach.
Speaker 1: Special thank you to Michael Davis and Kate McDonald. Learn
Speaker 1: more about my guests and other tech diswether. It's an
Speaker 1: innovator's at afrotech dot com. Enjoy your Black Tech Green Money,
Speaker 1: Share this with somebody. We'll get your money, peace and love.
Speaker 1: Check me out at the annual Black Effect Podcast Festival,
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Speaker 2: I lived there for two years.
Speaker 1: Actually, in my worldview, seeing us successful in every industry
Speaker 1: and not having any limits on our potential largely was
Speaker 1: shaved by Atlanta.
Speaker 2: To to be there with you doing this.
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