1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,080 Speaker 1: Check me out at the annual Black Effect Podcast Festival, 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: happening Saturday, April twenty seventh in Atlanta. Live podcasts are 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: on deck from some of your favorite shows, including this one, 4 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: Black Tech, Green Money, and also some of the best 5 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: podcasts in the game like Deeply Well with Debbie Brown 6 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: and Carefully Reckless. Atlanta is one of my favorite cities 7 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 1: in the world. I've lived there for two years. Actually, 8 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: in my worldview, seeing us successful in every industry and 9 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: not having any limits on our potential largely was shaped 10 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: by Atlanta. So to be there with you doing this 11 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: podcast talking about how we build or leverage technology to 12 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: bill wealth. Come on, man, doesn't get better. I want 13 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: to see you there. Get your tickets today at Black 14 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: Effect dot comback Slash Podcast Festival. I'm Will Lucas and 15 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: this is Black Tech, Green Money. 16 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 2: I'll find so. 17 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: David has committed his life to actualizing a more just 18 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: and equitable world. His resume is page is long, but 19 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: for the sake of this podcast, he's President and CEO 20 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: of the Global Black Economic Forum, focused on reimagining what diverse, 21 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: the equity, inclusion and opportunity looks like in global workspaces 22 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: and marketplaces. As well as achieving the notion of economic justice. 23 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 2: For black people all over the world. As someone who's 24 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 2: worked across various sectors like he. 25 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: Has, including public service, business, nonprofit, and more, how does 26 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: Alfonzo believe technology. 27 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 2: Can be levised to address systemic inequalities. 28 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:28,839 Speaker 3: I think that leveraging technology driven solutions to address systemic 29 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 3: inequalities really require collaboration. It requires us to reach across 30 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 3: sectors that considered challenges against marginalized communities or what marginalized 31 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 3: communities are facing. What I mean by that is we 32 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 3: have to look in education, we have to look at 33 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 3: wealth management, we have to look at policy advocacy, we 34 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 3: have to look at health equity, we have to look 35 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 3: at entrepreneurship, and in all of those different sectors we 36 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 3: can leverage technology driven solutions to a systemic inequality. So, 37 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 3: as an example, if you look at education, technology can 38 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 3: provide access to quality education and training, which is really 39 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 3: essential to economic empowerment and other things that we think 40 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:19,679 Speaker 3: of when we generally think of education, and the educational 41 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 3: platforms can really break down barriers to education with marginalized 42 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 3: communities to support resource challenge public schools and maybe provide 43 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 3: students with skills and knowledge that can help close the 44 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 3: wage gap. So you take another example wealth management. Fintech 45 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 3: innovations such as mobile banking and digital wallets and peer 46 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 3: to peer lending can expand access to financial services for 47 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 3: underserved populations, including those with traditional banking accounts and credit intories. 48 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 3: So by providing alternative financial solutions, technology can help marginalize 49 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 3: individuals build assets, improve their economic resilience. And then maybe 50 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 3: we think of a healthcare as another sector. Telemedicine and 51 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 3: mobile health applications can improve access to healthcare services for 52 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 3: communities with limited physical access to medical facilities, and so 53 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 3: if you're living in a remote setting, for example, where 54 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 3: it's difficult to gain access to other resources that people 55 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 3: have if they live in urban areas, telemedicine can be 56 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 3: incredibly helpful in addressing the gaps in healthcare delivery and 57 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 3: in fact empowering people to take control of their own health. 58 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: You said a couple things in there. I want to 59 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: point out one. You mentioned the phrase wealth management. I 60 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: believe you said wealth generation also, but I'm not positive 61 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: on that one. But I was thinking about reading your background. 62 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: You know, you've been involved in some really groundbreaking legislation. 63 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: Helping push those things, pushing things forward in particularly around 64 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: you know, social and economic systems. Is there an imperative 65 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: for black people to build wealth? Do we have a 66 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: responsibility to build wealth? 67 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 3: Yes? Yes and yes. Look, as black people, we have 68 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 3: centuries of colonization, enslavement, and systemic inequality that have impeded 69 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 3: our ability to gain financial freedom and the dignity that 70 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 3: we actually deserve. And when we talk about financial management, 71 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 3: when we talk about wealth generation, often people want to 72 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 3: divorce it from colonization, they want to divorce it from slavery, 73 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 3: they want to divorce it from systemic inequality, and we 74 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 3: can't do that. We have to sort of recognize the 75 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 3: systems that we operate within and how important it is 76 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 3: that we take our personal liberties and use those liberties 77 00:04:55,360 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 3: that we have gained from our ancestors to achieve financial freedom. 78 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 3: You know, the most recent data from the Federal Reserve Survey, 79 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 3: I think it indicated during COVID that the wealth gap widened. 80 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,919 Speaker 3: So between twenty nineteen and twenty twenty two, you know this, 81 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 3: the medium wealth saw an increase. However, the weave gap 82 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 3: or the wealth gap increase for people who are racial 83 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 3: minorities and if you put an even finer point on that, 84 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 3: when Martin Luther King gave a speech on the March 85 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 3: in Washington in the nineteen sixties, the wealth gap was 86 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 3: eight to one, and today that wealth gap is twelve 87 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 3: for me on the other way, Yeah, it's going the 88 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 3: other way. And as much as people talk about, you know, 89 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 3: advancements in technology and advancements in economic empowerment and all 90 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:51,799 Speaker 3: of the other categories, we're seeing this gap increase between 91 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 3: white and black people. We take another category, housing equity. 92 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 3: We're seeing that black households chilled, some improved, but we're 93 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 3: also seeing a gap with respect to home equity, whether 94 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 3: black people actually have the ability to purchase homes and 95 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 3: hold onto those homes. We're seeing existing and exacerbating disparities. 96 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 3: So what I would say to your question is, we 97 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,919 Speaker 3: have to think about the centuries of systemic discrimination in 98 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:25,359 Speaker 3: public policy and financial practices, in societal norms that have 99 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 3: hindered our ability to acquire black wealth. And it's all 100 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 3: of our individual and collective responsibilities to address that, not 101 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 3: only through structural reforms, but also our individual actions. 102 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: So I'm going to ask this a different way. You're 103 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: saying it's not okay, then to be comfortable with your 104 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,679 Speaker 1: little salary taking care of you and your little house. 105 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: Is that safe to say? 106 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 3: That is safe to say? You know that is safe 107 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 3: to say because you know, I have to often think 108 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 3: about the work that I do and why I continue 109 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 3: to do with what motivates me to do this work, 110 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 3: And I often think back to our ancestors and the 111 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 3: folks that were killed, that were murdered in order for 112 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 3: us to be in the position that we're in. So 113 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 3: just putting that lens on and thinking about the responsibility 114 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 3: that we have to further advance the interests of marginalized 115 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 3: communities and specifically black people. Not only do we owe 116 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 3: it to ourselves, but the systems that we operate in 117 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 3: were intentionally created to oppress us. So you're either going 118 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 3: to be subjugating yourself to a process and a system 119 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 3: that exists to oppress you, or you're going to work 120 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 3: to overcome those systems collectively as a community and also individually. 121 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 2: I like that. I like that. 122 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: So when you think about black entrepreneurship in those even 123 00:07:56,080 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: using technology or building technology black entrepreneurship, what, in your 124 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: opinion are some of the most pressing issues and concerns 125 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: facing us. 126 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 3: Well, I think what you would hear most often from 127 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 3: folks that operate in these spaces is acsets to capital, 128 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 3: access to capital, access to capital, access to capital. We 129 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 3: have black entrepreneurs all over the world, all over this country, 130 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 3: often facing challenges in accessing access to startup capital, including 131 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 3: venture capital funding. You may know this, Black women, women 132 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 3: of color business founders received only zero point zero three 133 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 3: eight percent of venture capital dollars. So to put that 134 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 3: in context, two hundred and eighty eight billion dollars is 135 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:45,199 Speaker 3: allocated each year through the venture capital infrastructure, and of 136 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 3: the two hundred and eighty eight billion dollars, only zero 137 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 3: point three eight percent those are women of public. That 138 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 3: is something that should be alarming to all of us. 139 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 3: So if you want to start your own business and 140 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 3: you're looking for investors, you're looking for people to actually 141 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 3: support you and grow that business, it's going to be 142 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 3: difficult for you to find that in the current infrastructure. 143 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 3: So access to capital is incredibly important and one of 144 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 3: the main obstacles that we face. The second I would 145 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 3: say is market access and contracts. Black owned technology companies 146 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 3: often encounter challenges in securing contracts and assessing markets dominated 147 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 3: by large or more established firms, so they have to 148 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 3: overcome those barriers every single day. And we have to 149 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 3: think about how we foster supply diversity initiatives. What I 150 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 3: mean by that for those who may not know, you know, 151 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 3: if I run a company, I usually I'm in the 152 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 3: business also of buying products and services. If I'm buying 153 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 3: products and services and I'm only buying products and services 154 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 3: from non black people or non people of color, that's 155 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 3: going to exacerbate the problem. So this idea of market 156 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,319 Speaker 3: access and contracts is incredibly important. And I would say 157 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 3: another challenge is global digital divide. You know, digital inclusion 158 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 3: efforts like ensuring access to soft and hard infrastructure can 159 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 3: really help bridge the digital divide from marginalized communities, but 160 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 3: that's often quite difficult to do because we don't have 161 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 3: access to it. And then I would say, finally, we're 162 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 3: talking about building collaborative infrastructures and systems, and we don't 163 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,199 Speaker 3: have that ability in many cases because we're excluded from 164 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:30,079 Speaker 3: the process. So bringing together stakeholders from government, from industry, 165 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 3: from the non for profit sector to help create a 166 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 3: supportive ecosystem for black entrepreneurs in tech is also I 167 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 3: think a significant barrier. 168 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you mentioned contracting because I want to 169 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:43,719 Speaker 1: ask you about that and because you teed that up. 170 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: You know, outside of what I do here, I have 171 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: a small business also, and we've been as several times. 172 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: You know, we participate in bidding processes and typically I 173 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: would avoid that because the barrier to just complete the applications, 174 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: particularly when we talking about governments and whether it's local, 175 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: municipal government or federal. Forget federal, that's a whole other beast. 176 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: But I'm just like, you know, it'll take me a 177 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: month just to respond and then you got to try 178 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: to win it, you know, so you'll spend forty eighty, 179 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: you know, one hundred and twenty hours just trying to 180 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: respond to an RFP and then may not even get it. 181 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: So how do small businesses, particularly black owned small businesses, 182 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: position themselves? And I guess I'm phrasing that in a 183 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: way of is it designed that way to keep us 184 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: out because they know we can't spend the time to 185 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: do this. 186 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I had the privilege of serving in 187 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 3: government for twelve years, and I had the privilege of 188 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 3: serving as Council to the governor of New York, the 189 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 3: first black man to have that rule. And you think 190 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 3: of the State of New York being a progressive place. 191 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 3: I happen to have the privilege of serving as the 192 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 3: first black person, black man, I should say to service 193 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 3: counselors for the governor. There were black women that served 194 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 3: in that role, but unfortunately I remain the only black 195 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 3: man to serve in that role. And when I served 196 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 3: in that role, I had again the privilege of drafting 197 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 3: and working on legislation that included the Minority and Women 198 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 3: Owned Business Program. So this is a program that exists 199 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 3: in New York and other parts of the country. The 200 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 3: goal is to increase opportunities for minority contractors and women 201 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 3: contractors to get business with the State of New York, 202 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 3: and that exists in many other parts of the country. Now, 203 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 3: to your point, the systems, I believe were created in 204 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 3: such a burdensome way that it makes it difficult for 205 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 3: people just to go through the application process. And when 206 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 3: I was there, one of the key goals that I 207 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,319 Speaker 3: had was how do we demystify this process and how 208 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 3: do we make it simpler. Now you were here on 209 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 3: the other side, people say, well, we need to keep 210 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 3: this process as is, because what can learned about fraud. 211 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 3: That's the argument why these programs that the application process 212 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 3: is so difficult, is they argue that we need to 213 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 3: make sure that we eliminate or reduce or address fraud. 214 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 3: And I would say that obviously is a legitimate concern. 215 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 2: So what they say about yeah, exactly, that. 216 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 3: May be a legitimate concern. But what you can't answer 217 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 3: for me is why of the billions of dollars we 218 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 3: have allocated out in contracting, only point x percent are 219 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 3: going to black and brown people? Why is that? And 220 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 3: no one was able to answer that question, which is 221 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 3: why I worked with a large and very talented team 222 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 3: in advancing that legislation but also breaking down the barriers 223 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 3: to entry for people right, making sure that it was 224 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 3: easier for people to get those contracts, and also importantly 225 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 3: holding the agencies accountable right because in many of these cases, 226 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 3: the agencies could grant what's called waivers if they couldn't 227 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 3: find a minority contractor or a woman contractor, they would 228 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 3: grant a waiver to a white owned business to do 229 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,719 Speaker 3: the work. And what we did when I was in 230 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 3: government is eliminate that waiver process so that it went 231 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 3: through an additional review process that agencies didn't have the 232 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 3: right just to grant those waivers. And I think that's 233 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 3: what we need in many parts of the country, is 234 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 3: additional accountability efforts to make sure that market access and 235 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 3: contracts are actually available to black entrepreneurs who are seeking 236 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 3: to do business with government agencies around the country. 237 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. 238 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: One of the things that we don't talk about, I 239 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: think enough, you know, on this podcast, is addiction. And 240 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: we talk about mental health, we talk about things like that, 241 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: but we don't talk about addiction, particularly in technology often 242 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: and even instrumental in creating treatment centers for addiction and etc. 243 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: And even advancing economic empowerment through policy. And I wonder, like, 244 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: what are the wrap arounds or the rap rounds that 245 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: should be there, or the broken bridges between mental health, 246 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: addiction and financial stability. So, like it was, we don't 247 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: correlate those two often enough in our community. 248 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 3: There is a direct relationship between financial instability and mental 249 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 3: health and addiction. We have a huge mental health crisis 250 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 3: in this country that often gets ignored, and you see 251 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 3: it exacerbated in large cities. Right if you live in 252 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 3: a large city like New York City or Los Angeles. 253 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 3: You may see evidence of mental health on the streets, 254 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 3: and in some cases not all, but in some cases 255 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 3: reflected to people who are homeless, and we're not addressing 256 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 3: that issue sufficiently. In states and cities around the country, 257 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 3: Underserved communities, including low income neighborhoods and communities of color, 258 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 3: disproportionately experience and what we call social determinants of health, 259 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 3: and that really contributes to mental health challenges and addiction 260 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 3: and financial instability. And if we're not really going to 261 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 3: address the social determinants of health, it makes it a 262 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 3: lot more difficult for people to get to that place 263 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 3: where they can be financially stable. And our communities face 264 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 3: systemic barriers in addressing health care or accessing as you say, 265 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 3: health care, accessing education, accessing employment opportunities, supportable housing. So, 266 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 3: you know, folks often like to talk about mental health 267 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 3: in a vacuum, but it has to be directly tied 268 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 3: to healthcare, education, employment, and housing. If I can't afford 269 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 3: an apartment, I'm more than likely won't be able to 270 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 3: sustain a job. And if I have a mental health 271 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 3: challenge and it's not treated, that's going to affect my 272 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 3: ability to get a job or to hold on to 273 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 3: a home, and that perpetuates into a vicious cycle of poverty. 274 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 3: So I had the privilege of helping to create an 275 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 3: addiction treatment center in Los Angeles that was and remains 276 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 3: quite successful. And I think we need more of that work, 277 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 3: and we need more focus on those areas because we 278 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 3: tend to disaggregate them and think of poverty and mental 279 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 3: health in one bucket and then financial stability in another. 280 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, you've had an incredible story. I want to talk 281 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 1: about a Flanso for a second, just the man, you know, 282 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 1: the human Talk about mentorship that you've received, and you know, 283 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: what are some of the most important lessons you've learned. 284 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,919 Speaker 3: I've got the privilege of working with and for some 285 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 3: incredible people who took the time to invest in me. 286 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 3: And before I even talk about my professional life, I'll 287 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 3: just talk about my family. Yeah, you know, my parents, 288 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 3: my uncles, my aunts, my that have taken the time 289 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 3: and continue to take the time to pour energy and 290 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 3: love and attention into me and for me, and that 291 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 3: serves as a foundation in a building block for creating 292 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 3: the person that I am today. You know, when folks 293 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 3: say how did you get to this place, I often say, 294 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 3: not by myself. And I didn't get here alone right 295 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,719 Speaker 3: If my parents were not and I used to call 296 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:39,679 Speaker 3: them dictators. If they were not such dictators in making 297 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 3: sure that they pushed us to read and to write 298 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 3: and to engage in different cultures and different languages, I 299 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 3: wouldn't have the scope and the perspective that I have today. 300 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 3: And it wouldn't have led me to practice law. It 301 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 3: wouldn't have led me to do the work that I've done. 302 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 3: But when I got into those professional spaces, I also 303 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 3: found people that invested in me. From Joanne Epps, who 304 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 3: was the former dean of the Temple Law School where 305 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 3: I went to law school, or to Clipper Scott Green, 306 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 3: who was the judge that I clerked for, one of 307 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 3: the first black judges on the federal bench. And I 308 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 3: clerked for him, and one of the things that he 309 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 3: said to me that will always stick with me, he says, 310 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 3: people often arrived at conclusions with too little evidence. And 311 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 3: he said that to me in the early two thousands 312 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 3: when I clerked for him. And I think about that often, 313 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 3: especially today in an environment where people reach conclusions based 314 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 3: on a tweet without actually understanding the facts and drawing 315 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 3: conclusions about marginalized communities that are in many cases faults. 316 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 3: And that mentorship, in that sponsorship, over the decades that 317 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 3: I've been doing this work, has really helped not only 318 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 3: refer mind my approach and my thinking on a lot 319 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 3: of the work that I do, but also my humanity. 320 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 3: You know, as we become more successful, it's very easy 321 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 3: to forget where you come from. It's very easy to 322 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 3: forget about the person who is less has less opportunities 323 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 3: than you, because you're constantly moving forward and constantly reaching higher. 324 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 3: And another mentor told me very early on, be careful 325 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,439 Speaker 3: who you are kind to on your way up. You 326 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 3: may meet them on your way down. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, 327 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 3: And I often think about that ladder because we, yes, 328 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 3: we have highs and lows in our lives, and we 329 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 3: always have to think about the humanity that we that 330 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,439 Speaker 3: we exhibit in how we communicate with people, how we 331 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 3: treat people, and how we live our lives. 332 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 2: I love that. 333 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: And you know, one of the things that your work 334 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: makes me think about the humanity and DEI work and 335 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: it's under attack today, and specifically I want to talk 336 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: about having access to these opportunities like you know, I'm 337 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,439 Speaker 1: on a college board, I'm chair of the board at 338 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: the at a university, and we're faced with you know, 339 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: we can't even ask questions about you know, what's your background. 340 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: You know, when you talk about scholarshiping or donors who 341 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 1: specifically designated their dollars for black students, we can't do 342 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: that today. And that's across the country and in so 343 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,479 Speaker 1: many other places. Venture capital firms who were set up 344 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 1: for black people are having challenges and doing this. 345 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 2: What do we do? 346 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 1: What do we do to ensure we still have you know, 347 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 1: distribution channels for opportunity. 348 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 3: So I think there are a few things that we 349 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 3: should do. First. I think we need to understand the landscape. 350 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 3: That is the enough. What I mean by that is 351 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 3: a permanive option in d and I exists for white people. 352 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 3: It is called nepotism and it is called legacy. 353 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. 354 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 3: When I was in law school, Danny Reno, who was 355 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 3: the former Attorney General, came and spoke about affirmative action, 356 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 3: and she said, I am a product of affirmative action. 357 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 3: Why because either her father or an uncle or someone 358 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 3: knew someone at the university that she was ultimately accepted 359 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 3: into and we don't call it affirmative action, but that's 360 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 3: what it is. It is sanctioned nepotism and sanctioned promotional 361 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 3: opportunities for those who are white or who are not black. 362 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 3: So let's understand the landscape. We need to understand that 363 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 3: is nepotism and legacy, and that has existed for decades 364 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 3: and continue to perpetuate this system of inequality. So that's first. Second, 365 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 3: I think ensuring access to opportunities for historically underserved and 366 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 3: marginalized groups requires advocacy. It requires policy reform, it requires 367 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 3: community engagement, and it requires an ongoing commitment to the 368 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 3: principles that we call DNI. Right, so we have to 369 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 3: make sure that we're willing to advocate for the idea 370 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 3: of diversity, equity and inclusion, because what is the alternative. 371 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 3: The alternative is that we are accepting institutions being non 372 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 3: diverse and non inclusive, we are accepting workplaces being non 373 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 3: diverse and non inclusive. We are accepting that we are 374 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 3: less than Ultimately by refusing to commit to DNI and 375 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 3: the principles undergirden DNI, what we're saying is that we're 376 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 3: less than and we know we're not right. We know 377 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 3: we're not There is no reason why many of these 378 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 3: boardrooms are not diverse. You can't tell me you cannot 379 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 3: find a qualified black or brown person to serve on 380 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 3: a board. You can't find a qualified black a brown 381 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 3: person to serve as a CEO. You can't find a 382 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,120 Speaker 3: qualified black a brown person to work in your law firm. 383 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 3: So the advocacy, the policy performed, the community engagement, the 384 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 3: ongoing commitment to D and I principles are incredibly important 385 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 3: and understanding the landscape that nepotism is really another word 386 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,880 Speaker 3: for affirmative action. Legacy is another word for affirmative action, 387 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 3: and we need to understand how all of those principles 388 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 3: coincide with the pushback that we're getting. Now. We're seeing 389 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 3: that there's been a lot of progress or some progress 390 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 3: in education, in business, in finance, and now it's being dismantled. 391 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 3: And we have to fight against that dismantling of affirmative action, 392 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 3: against D and I, against inclusive policies because they will 393 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 3: directly affect all of us. 394 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 2: So it helped me make sense. 395 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 1: It is because if you look at qualified studies, you 396 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: know if you have diverse people, you do better in business. 397 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: Those are facts you make more money, which is what 398 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 1: we are in the belief of like, that's what they want. 399 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 1: They want to make more money, they want more power, 400 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: more influence. And so if I show you, businessman, business 401 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,159 Speaker 1: woman statistics that say you make more money when you 402 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: have diverse boardrooms, you make more money when you have 403 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: diverse rosters of staff, and then you still I don't 404 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 1: want to I don't want to use the word hey, 405 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: but do you really not like us that much that 406 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: you are willing to make less to not put us 407 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: at the table? 408 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 3: Well, I mean you pose the elephant in the room. 409 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 3: That's the question. There's data that has been issued for decades. 410 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 3: We have reports after report after report showing the business 411 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 3: space for diversity, showing that if you have a diverse team, 412 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 3: you're more successful. If you have a diverse team, you're 413 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 3: more innovative, If you have a diverse team, you will 414 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 3: have a more sustainable bottom line over the long term. So, 415 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 3: if I'm a business leader, or I'm assigning value, financial 416 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 3: value to diversity, and if I'm not, then I either 417 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:15,880 Speaker 3: believe that black and brown people are lessening, or I'm 418 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 3: willing to Negate or not, I'm willing to ignore the 419 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 3: financial loss. I'm willing to ignore the financial loss that 420 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 3: my company is going to experience as a result of 421 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 3: not embracing diversity. Wow. I mean that's how we should 422 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 3: think about it, because no one is denying the studies. 423 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 3: No one is saying the studies are wrong. And we're 424 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 3: talking about Harvard Business School to Mackenzie, They've all issued 425 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 3: studies showing the value of diversity to companies across the globe. 426 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 3: And this is not just a US based issue. So 427 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 3: if I'm a CEO and I ignore that, I either 428 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 3: believe that black and brown people are less than or 429 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 3: I'm willing to suffer financial lots. 430 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And and so I've had this conversation. 431 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: This pot casts a lot, and I'm really interested in 432 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: your take on this. So I there's there's two conversations 433 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 1: to be had. One there is you can go to 434 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 1: the Apples, the Googles, the Tesla's, the whatevers of the 435 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: world and say you should hire more black people, et cetera, etcetera, etcetera. 436 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 3: Make that case. 437 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: I personally am not in. I want to build my 438 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: own table. I'm not asking for a seat at nobody's table. 439 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go build my own table. And I recognize 440 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 1: that there's value in both perspectives, in both efforts, And 441 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: I just wonder what your thoughts are on those two things, right. 442 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 3: I think we need both and I think you're exactly right. 443 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 3: Not every single person is an entrepreneur. Not every single 444 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 3: person has what it takes to be an entrepreneur, to 445 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 3: be your own boss, to worry about making payments to 446 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 3: you know, pay corporate taxes four times a year. Not 447 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 3: everyone has that. 448 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 2: I know you know what I'm talking about, right, But we. 449 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:19,120 Speaker 3: Should all have the opportunity to explore the our interest 450 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 3: in being an entrepreneur. So that's one. The flip side 451 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 3: is that if we want to work for others, if 452 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 3: we want to work in an environment that we don't own, 453 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 3: we should also have the ability to do that. I mean, 454 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 3: we arguably live in an economy, capitalist structure that's free enterprise, 455 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 3: which is really fascinating to me. Those who are against 456 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 3: diversity and inclusion ostensibly support free enterprise. So if you 457 00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 3: support free enterprise in a capitalist structure, why you against 458 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 3: d and I why are you pushing CEOs to move 459 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 3: away from diversity? But at the same time say that 460 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 3: you embrace free enterprise. You can't do both right. You 461 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 3: either embrace pre enterprise and allow companies to create the 462 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 3: structures that they deem most appropriate to achieve to advance 463 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 3: economic opportunity and the bottom line, or you don't. And 464 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 3: so that's why I find this entire movement against D 465 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 3: and I intellectually dishonored. It's not really about D and I. 466 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 3: You know, this is about a fear of a minority 467 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 3: majority district in a few years. This is about a 468 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 3: fear of entrepreneurs getting to the point where they have 469 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 3: so much in resources and access that you can't control them. 470 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 3: And that's the larger narrative that we're fighting against me. 471 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: In the three minutes I got left, I got two 472 00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: more for you. So I one, I want to do 473 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: this real. What is the imperative We have to find 474 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: roads to success for the formerly incarcerated. 475 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 3: That is one of the most important things we need 476 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 3: to do. Look, we all know the Rockefeller drug laws, 477 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 3: the criminal justice laws that have been passed not only 478 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 3: in the state of New York, but in other parts 479 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 3: of the country disproportionately impacted people of color. We know 480 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 3: and many people know how the sentencing structures were different 481 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 3: if you had cocaine versus crack cocaine, right, and we 482 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 3: know the impact that it had on communities of color. 483 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 3: With respect to those who are justice impacted, who are 484 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 3: largely black and brown, when they are released, we have 485 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 3: a responsibility to make sure that we open up opportunities 486 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 3: for them. Otherwise we're simply perpetuating a cycle of mass 487 00:30:55,400 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 3: incarceration and disproportionately impacting our communities. When I was in 488 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 3: the Governor's office, I worked on critical pieces of criminal 489 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 3: justice reforms, from solitary confinement reforms to legislation to culturial 490 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 3: courtail allowing minors to be treated as adults in prison. 491 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 3: We called it raise the Age. And I just feel 492 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 3: very strongly that, you know, the criminal justice system being 493 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 3: what it is, we either believe in rehabilitation or we don't. 494 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 3: We either believe that people can go in, serve their 495 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 3: time and be released and then serve as contributing members 496 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 3: of society or and don't. And if we do, then 497 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 3: we have to make sure we create an infrastructure to 498 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 3: support them and that them are largely black and brown. 499 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: And the last one is, you know, obviously we having 500 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: a humongous conversation about AI, and I wonder what concerns 501 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: Alfonso about AI and what roads we have to solve 502 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: whatever concerns is that you have, So a little bit 503 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: of a two parter. 504 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 2: There for you. 505 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 3: I'm really concerned about AI because I think we often 506 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 3: think of the challenges that AI presents, but we fail 507 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,239 Speaker 3: to think about the opportunities. And we need to think 508 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 3: about the opportunities. Now. Now, when you think about the 509 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 3: challenges that AI presents, we certainly know that in some industries, 510 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 3: AI will result in eliminating those industries. So you think 511 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 3: of language access as an example, right, you had companies 512 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 3: that were providing language access services. Well, pretty soon you 513 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 3: will be able to and you can in many instances 514 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 3: communicate on your phone in almost any language. So you 515 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 3: may not need the same types of services that we 516 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 3: currently provide or have been providing. But at the same time, 517 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 3: there are opportunities to expand access to financial services, There 518 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 3: are opportunities to expand community development, There are opportunities to 519 00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 3: maximize technology, and we as black and brown people, should 520 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 3: be looking for those opportunities not only to invest, but 521 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 3: to create our businesses, right, because that is the future. I. 522 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 3: You know, AI has been with us for a long time, 523 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 3: and many people say, what is this AI think? And 524 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 3: I said, look at your phone series AI, and it's 525 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 3: been there for a while. So as we think about 526 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 3: technology for the future, I think it's important and imparative 527 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 3: that we think of investments in this arena and we 528 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 3: think about how we can take our resources and create 529 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 3: businesses that can better serve our communities. 530 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity Afro 531 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: Tech from the Black Effect podcast Network in Nightheart Media. 532 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 2: It's produced by Morgan Debond and me Well Lucas, but 533 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 2: the additional production support by Sarah Ergan and Love Beach. 534 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 1: Special thank you to Michael Davis and Kate McDonald. Learn 535 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: more about my guests and other tech diswether. It's an 536 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: innovator's at afrotech dot com. Enjoy your Black Tech Green Money, 537 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,919 Speaker 1: Share this with somebody. We'll get your money, peace and love. 538 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: Check me out at the annual Black Effect Podcast Festival, 539 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,359 Speaker 1: happening Saturday, April twenty seventh in Atlanta. Live podcasts are 540 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 1: on deck from some of your favorite shows, including this one, 541 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,359 Speaker 1: Black Tech Green Money, and also some of the best 542 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: podcasts in the game like Deeply Well with Debbie Brown 543 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 1: and Carefully Reckless. Atlanta is one of my favorite cities 544 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: in the world. 545 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 2: I lived there for two years. 546 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,280 Speaker 1: Actually, in my worldview, seeing us successful in every industry 547 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 1: and not having any limits on our potential largely was 548 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: shaved by Atlanta. 549 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 2: To to be there with you doing this. 550 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: Podcast talking about how we build or leverage technology to 551 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: bill wealth. Come on, man, doesn't get better. I want 552 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,799 Speaker 1: to see you there. Get your tickets today at black 553 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: effect dot com. Backslash podcast fore Stavo