1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,280 Speaker 1: This is Kelly Henderson and you're listening to the Velvet 2 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: Edge podcast. My guest this week is Miles ad Cox, 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: who is the CEO of on Site, a mental health 4 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: wellness center. Miles has been featured in everything from OH 5 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: magazine to Good Morning America, and as a huge fan 6 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,119 Speaker 1: of therapy and inter emotional and mental health work, I 7 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: have been dying for the chance to talk to someone 8 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: who speaks the language. What's so interesting about Miles is 9 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: not only his success and all of the countless numbers 10 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: of people on Site has helped, but also his continuing 11 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: growth and honesty and his own journey of mental and 12 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,279 Speaker 1: emotional health. We each talked about our own experiences with 13 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: experiential and intensive therapy, why it works, and the language 14 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: and vulnerability that we hope is becoming more common in 15 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 1: our society. Here's our conversation. Okay, So when I was 16 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: I researched you a lot, and I was listening to 17 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 1: a couple of podcasts that you spoke on, and every 18 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: single person says what is on Site? And You're like, Oh, 19 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: I don't have a full answer, but I'm going to 20 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: ask you, what is what I've got to give better 21 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: at this I'm the worst. Whatever you call the elevator pitch, 22 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 1: I'm the worst at that. But uh it, I would 23 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: say it's an emotional wellness retreat space and we offer 24 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: primarily we're known for we're just west of Nashville. We're 25 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: on a beautiful campus out in Dixon County, and we 26 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: offer short term therapeutic workshops and intensives. It's kind of 27 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: what most people know is for. And then we also 28 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: have on campus. It's a separate location, but on campus 29 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: we do uh kind of a boutique residential program for 30 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 1: mental health, specializing in trauma, depression, anxiety. But the workshops 31 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: we do are kind of for anybody and everybody from 32 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: Living Centered programmed, we have a trauma specialty and just 33 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: all kinds of fun stuff. So when you say intensive, 34 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: can you describe kind of what that means? Sure? Uh intent. 35 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: We were um some of the first that in the 36 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: emotional health mental health space to start recognizing that the 37 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,279 Speaker 1: traditional model of counseling and therapy, like a fifty minute 38 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: session UM has value and has limitation, and so you 39 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 1: with more runway, you can do so much more and 40 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: it can kind of feel and I and I do 41 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: my own personal work outside with a with a therapist, 42 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: and it for the most part, if I'm doing maintenance work, 43 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: it's great. But if I've got anything significantly at verse 44 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: going on in my life, to come out of life 45 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: into this little curiod of bubble for an hour and 46 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: then be bounced back into life can be really challenging. 47 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: And so this is just a way for you to 48 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: do a significant amount of those hours in one chunk 49 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: of time. So take like four days and you can do, 50 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: like if you if you played it out, probably six 51 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 1: to eight months of therapy in a four day window. 52 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: I was just about to say that I've done an 53 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: intensive before. It wasn't an on side of it was 54 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: before I found out about one site. But my therapist said, 55 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: you know, I had been doing probably I think I 56 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: had been doing therapy for about a year and a half, 57 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: and she said, I think you're ready for an intensive. 58 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: And I was like, well, what is this stuff we've 59 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 1: been doing called you know? And she said, no, this 60 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: is literally like going to six months of therapy in 61 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: one weekend. And it was but why why is that? 62 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: Like you said, you run into blocks when you do 63 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: the fifty minute session, what like can you explain that more. 64 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: What kind of blocks it's uh? I mean primarily it's 65 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:24,519 Speaker 1: when you are opening up on deeper parts of yourself 66 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 1: and trying to figure out what you want to reconcile 67 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: or take a look at it. If you have more time, 68 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: you can actually move into it at a little better pace. Uh. 69 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: I like vulnerability is a big ask. It's getting better 70 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: because it's people are now starting to see it as 71 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: more of a strength. It's trending culturally. But to ease 72 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: somebody into that, there is a method to that that 73 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: done well, uh you can unlock the answers that I 74 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: believe everybody has within them. So a lot of people 75 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: think you go to counseling, coaching, therapy for a solution 76 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: or an answer, and ultimately you go to discover that 77 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: you have the solution and answer you're looking for. And 78 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: if you have time to do that, then there's an 79 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: art to curating psychological safety and building trust and letting 80 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: people kind of evolve into their story. And then there's 81 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: an art to using a trained modality to the therapist 82 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: might be trained in to figure out how to get 83 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 1: people to go deeper, unpack certain elements that might be stuck, 84 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: and then there's an integration piece. So imagine trying to 85 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: do all three of those elements in a short window 86 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: and you can. There's some brilliant private practitioners that do it, 87 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: and so I'm not picking on that model. I just 88 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: like it coupled with, like your therapist recommended, an intensive 89 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: model where you can really get a jump start. Yeah. 90 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: I love that you said that the fifty minute sessions 91 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: are great for maintenance, because I think everyone should be 92 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 1: in therapy. I mean, it's it's the most beneficial thing 93 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 1: that I do personally, but and it's not because anything 94 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: terrible is going on in my life, Like I think 95 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 1: that's a huge misconception, but it definitely jump starts it 96 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: to do something intense like that. Can you talk through 97 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 1: some of the different acts ativities that you might do 98 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 1: it on site? Sure? We we we are an integrative 99 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: therapeutic modality, meaning we take a variety of different modalities 100 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: in our therapists. We look for specific talent, clinical talent. 101 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: We like our therapists to be artists, and so we 102 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 1: typically come from an experiential lens, meaning there's a lot 103 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: that falls under an experiential umbrella, but it's it's I 104 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: guess the easiest way to say it is most counseling 105 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 1: is kind of talk oriented or cognitive behavioral, and it's 106 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: valuable too, but we like to turn the talk into 107 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: more action and mobilize it because I think it taps 108 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: into different parts of our brain, particular limbic where we 109 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: hold a lot of pain, and it kind of bypasses 110 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: our prefrontal cortex where which is our rational and reasoning 111 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: part of our brain, which can sometimes get in the 112 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: way of healing and finding what we need to move forward. 113 00:05:55,320 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: So why what do you mean? Well, I I feel 114 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: I've had to work, uh to get in touch with 115 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 1: my emotions because I didn't really get an early imprint 116 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: growing up in the South, kind of a man's man 117 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: that you just you didn't feel and I was somewhat 118 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: emotionally illiterate, and so put me in counseling when life 119 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: starts do not work so well, and ultimately you don't 120 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: really heal what you don't feel. Uh. And I had 121 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: a hard time feeling. But give me a problem to solve, 122 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 1: and I would love to think about it and process 123 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,119 Speaker 1: it and talk it out, but that but I walked 124 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: away not feeling any better or with any change. So 125 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: I love to intellectualize something. That's a skill that I 126 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: enjoy too, but it it's the skill that most often 127 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: gets in the way of me being able to access emotion. 128 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: So sometimes we find and we get the opportunity to 129 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: work with a lot of smart intellects and creative people 130 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: and sometimes the more we know, so in other words, 131 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: we a lot of the people in the helping profession 132 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: psychologist therapist, they trust our resource too and come to 133 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: do their work there primarily because they can take their 134 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 1: therapy to cat often be a human for a week, 135 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 1: because it's something we ask everybody that comes to our 136 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: campus is not to reveal your profession. And but when 137 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: they're there, that often is the hardest clientele to work 138 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: with because they know a lot and ultimately it's an 139 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: unknowing process. It's unpacking what we think we know so 140 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: that something can evolve into clarity. Anytime I've done work 141 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: like you're talking about, I go in and I'm like, okay, 142 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: I'm gonna work on this part of you know, like 143 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: this is my problem right now and I'm gonna go 144 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: address this. And then you go in and you do 145 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: the work, and especially the experiential type therapy, and it's like, what, 146 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: what this thing comes up that you had no idea 147 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: you were even holding onto, and it's the thing that 148 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: you needed to work through the most. Okay, so let's 149 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: talk about experiential therapy because I think that it's super 150 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: helpful and my experiences, I've needed the talk and the 151 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: experiential But it sounds weird, right, like that I was 152 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: trying to describe to someone what I did at this 153 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: intensive and I had a lot of anger from a 154 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: past relationship and I had to push. My therapist made me, 155 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: first of all, beat a block with like a nerf 156 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: bat and then push the block out of the room. 157 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: It was this huge, like I don't even know how 158 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: you describe this. But when I tell people about that after, 159 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: they're like, why did that help you? So? Why does 160 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: that help? Is it just getting it out of your body? 161 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: And yeah, oh god, yeah, I mean I started, I 162 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: was so angry, so angry, so angry, and then I like, 163 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: I pushed the block out and just started sobbing, And 164 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: then after there was the biggest release I had felt 165 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:43,839 Speaker 1: in years. Probably well, I think to some up experiential 166 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: to the ability that the brain can see itself. I 167 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,319 Speaker 1: feel like it can heal itself, but most therapeutic modalities 168 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 1: don't necessarily give the brain the ability to see itself 169 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: in real time. And so, uh, what you experienced. Anger 170 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: gets a bad rap up as an emotion, and it's 171 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: an essential emotion, just like the rest of them. And 172 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 1: I don't think anger is the problem for most of us. 173 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: It's our relationship with anger because we're told we're not 174 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 1: supposed to feel it, or if we do feel that 175 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: something's wrong, and so therefore we don't allow ourselves to 176 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 1: process talk about feel anger. And when we don't talk 177 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: about it, it compounds, turns into kind of this internal rage, 178 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 1: and it can create a little havoc, which is why 179 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: UM tools like what you experienced can be really valuable. 180 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 1: And they do sound wild and crazy. Uh, that's one 181 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: of the reasons when I'm out talking about what we 182 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: do and on site, I don't really get into the 183 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: specifics of here's exactly what happens in a group room 184 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: because it's out of context. But also it's different every time, right, 185 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: different every time. We don't do that every time, but 186 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: that that practice actually came from martial artists. Yeah, it's 187 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 1: really and basically the whole point of it is not 188 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,959 Speaker 1: slamming about to do rage work. It's releasing energy because 189 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: toxic energy can end up creating compound stress and when 190 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: we release it, a actually lowers our ambient stress level 191 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: and we feel better, just like you described. But they 192 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: were the first that came up with that blocker that 193 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: they that often you'll find with martial artists that they 194 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: used to move energy. And it's actually a pretty controlled method. 195 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: It's not like an out of control. Uh. There are 196 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,079 Speaker 1: people that facilitated differently. But you're talking about rage or 197 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 1: anger release work, and when you say it that way, 198 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: it sounds much different than it sounds so beautiful. I'm 199 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: gonna be to be to block but alter that's what 200 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: you kind of do. But it's very facilitated. It's a 201 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 1: very controlled environment from the facilitator, but it's also highly effective. 202 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: You're not near as scary. But if you were to 203 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: hear about it on the street, like this is what 204 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: you're gonna do, I wouldn't sign up for that. You know. People, 205 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: all of my friends that I had told were like, 206 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: oh my god, she's really like falling off the deep 207 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: end because this is what she's doing with her weekends. 208 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: But it works, man, and I still to this day 209 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 1: because in that I learned anger is not a primary emotion, right, 210 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: it'sn't isn't It usually covering something else? I mean, this 211 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: is getting into therapy stuff. But I can identify now, 212 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: or it's taught me to recognize when I'm feeling that 213 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:08,719 Speaker 1: kind of rage or anger to go, okay, what is 214 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: like really going on? You know, because there was always 215 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: something underlying for me, but I couldn't tap into the 216 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,839 Speaker 1: feelings like you're saying, yeah, yeah, I mean you're there 217 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: is I think that's the longest journey we take. I 218 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: say this all the time out of our our offering 219 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: is that that eighteen inches from our head to our heart. 220 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,599 Speaker 1: And what I mean by that ultimately is there is 221 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: a core emotion that typically has a lot of emotions 222 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 1: or feelings that we think about that emotion before we 223 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: ever really understand what it is. And sadness is often 224 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: at the core of anger. I'm sure you saw. Which 225 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: that is tip atypical when someone's doing anger work, and 226 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: there's a lot of ways to do that. It's not 227 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: always with the block and in the bat there's other 228 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: ways to do anger work, but usually after that release 229 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,559 Speaker 1: there you find tears that have been just there and 230 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:55,319 Speaker 1: blocked for a long time. And so it's it's really powerful, 231 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:59,319 Speaker 1: but it's it's one element. It's one tool. Uh inexperiential, 232 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: there's role play, there's drama, there's UM. I could go 233 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: on and on on. We integrate music, art. It's just 234 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: it's it's pretty beautiful, but it's if you were to 235 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: walk into an intensive of an environment and we tell 236 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: you the middle of the book without reading the first chapter, 237 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: then you would think it was a little crazy. And 238 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: so it's almost like you need a runway and a 239 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: warm up. And what we've decided what we figured out 240 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: with UM the experience alice. It's not new, it's been 241 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: around for a while, but it it kind of lost 242 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: some of it's uh, how would I say that? UM 243 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: it started getting a bad route because in the seventies 244 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: and eighties they figured out how powerful it was as 245 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: a therapeutic tool, and it was almost like instead of 246 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: a scalpel to try to do emotional surgery, you could 247 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: use a machete. And because it opens people up faster, 248 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: but opening people up to a cathartic experience doesn't always 249 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: signify healing, and so you don't go after a cathartic 250 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: experience just to do it. And that's what people started realizing. 251 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: If we don't get people deep and emotional, then we're 252 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 1: not healing. Not necessarily the case, as we followed the 253 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: research over the years. So now we make it an 254 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: invitational opportunity. We never push your pool people where we 255 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: think they need to go, and so that's one thing 256 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 1: that's a relief when people come down. So they think 257 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: that stuff seems weird, Well, great, you don't have to 258 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: do it. You can still come and participate and benefit 259 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: without You can opt in or opt out, and ultimately 260 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: we find when people get to make their own decision 261 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: at what level they're willing to lean in, there twice 262 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: as likely to create sustainable change. That's so interesting too, 263 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: because another thing that happened for me is when I 264 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: showed up, um, I didn't want to do anything, and 265 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: I'm pretty I usually will be open and participate, but 266 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: it's a vulnerable experience. I don't know if that's what 267 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: I was feeling, but I said that and I was able. 268 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: My therapist heard that and was like, Okay, well, what 269 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: do you like let's look at that. And then we 270 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: were able to see what I was really guarding. And 271 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: it's just interesting to learn about yourself that way. How 272 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: did you get into this though, That's that's what I'm 273 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: curious about. It was through the lens of my own 274 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: own experience. I if you would have told me twenty 275 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: years ago I was going to be in the helping 276 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 1: profession of the change business, I would I would have laughed. 277 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: I didn't know anything about it, nor did I know 278 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: I wanted to be in it or it would be 279 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: a calling when I when I traced back into my childhood, 280 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: I've always had um an interest UH, an empathetic disposition 281 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: towards underdogs, towards um and so I think one way 282 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: or another, I was always divinely appointed to be a 283 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: part of this. It just took a journey to get there. 284 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: So I've always had an ear for people who were 285 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: going through difficulty or struggle, even as a kid, whether 286 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: it was people or pets or dogs or whatever. I 287 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: always had a PACKISTRAS. And then I had my own 288 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: life experience in my early twenties where I experienced depression 289 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: UH significantly and started to medicaid and none that out 290 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: in a lot of creative ways and didn't know I 291 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: was doing it at the time. I've got all the 292 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: language to back it up now, but at the time 293 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: I didn't know what was going on. It was very 294 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: disoriented and confusing, and so I did what we do 295 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: at that time. I had a smile on my face 296 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 1: and was muscling through and was working hard to achieve 297 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: so that I could be affirmed by external places, and 298 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: so you didn't know, and yet on the inside, something 299 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: completely different was going on. So I was very much 300 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: um unintegrated, you know, I guess if you will. So 301 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: it was through the lens of me going through a 302 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: adverse time, uh finding the right resources and the right 303 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: people to come around me at that time. And when 304 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: I when I found it, I mean I fought it 305 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: initially and had some resistance, which I think is totally normal. 306 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: But once I got a taste of it, I had 307 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: this initial freedom experience. It's hard to describe. It was 308 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: like as I described the lights coming on moment, but 309 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: it was like I learned a new language, and I 310 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: was so drawn to it um that I knew I 311 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: had to be a part of it. I didn't know 312 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: initially that I would do it professionally. But I knew 313 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: this will be a significant part of my life because 314 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: it's the way I want to live. I want to 315 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: be present, I want to be open, I want to 316 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: be vulnerable. I want to express my emotions. I want 317 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: to be able to cry, all the things I thought 318 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: I could never do. It was like somebody just said, oh, yeah, 319 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: this is normal and actually healthy. It was like really, yeah, yeah, 320 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: And so I was an early adopt I bought in 321 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: right on the back end of my own transformation. I 322 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: bought in and I was like, this stuff could change 323 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: the world, and I want to be a part of it. 324 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: So did you have a crash that made you launch 325 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: into this? Yeah, I mean it was UM. Thankfully my 326 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: my bottom didn't get too deep before UM. People around 327 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: me helped speak into me and and somewhat intervened because 328 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: the people that uh people noticed, particularly people close I 329 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: started dropping weight. And my mom was a big advocate 330 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: for more for me at that time, and I think 331 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: she was just out of her own fear. She knows 332 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: me about as good as anybody, and so she probably 333 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 1: leaned in and said, I see something is going on, 334 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: and we got to do something about it. So um, 335 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: my crash was no sleep, exhausted, losing weight, unhealthy, running 336 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: through relationships, just miserable. But I think I was close. 337 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: I think within I would have my bottom could have 338 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: gotten very dangerous had I not gotten support at the 339 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: time that I got it. Uh. And now that's one 340 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: of my missions in life is that, um, people don't 341 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 1: even have to get where I got if you have, 342 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: and it's not necessarily prevention, it's just information. If you 343 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: had this information sooner than you can embrace a different 344 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: way of looking at life and have a different outcome 345 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 1: without having to experience some of that adversity. I wouldn't 346 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: change the adversity because it was all informative, but some 347 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: of it, you know, it was pretty you know, pretty painful, 348 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: pretty dark, and I don't think you have to experience 349 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: that have a transformation. I love the part that you 350 00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: said you learned a new language and that was so 351 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: peaceful for me. I had a bottom, I guess you 352 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: would say too. And as painful as it was to 353 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 1: hear someone put a word to it, or to tell me, well, 354 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: obviously this is what happened to you because of X, 355 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: Y and Z in your past. You know, those kind 356 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 1: of things to be validated in that you're not crazy 357 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: and there is a whole another thing out there, but 358 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 1: I just didn't know. And you can't do anything unless 359 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,880 Speaker 1: you know, right, yeah, knowing in that environment, And that's 360 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: what I feel like we're missing in today's culture. And 361 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons why I feel like if 362 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: we can mobilize this information without the pathology so that 363 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,360 Speaker 1: it's just for the people who've gone through difficulty and 364 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 1: move it into our today's leadership, whether it be faith, education, entertainment, politics, 365 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: there is a deficit and self awareness. Just watch the 366 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: way people speak, and you just don't hear people identifying 367 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: parts of themselves based on their early imprint that could 368 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,160 Speaker 1: be affecting the way they're navigating their decisions. And if 369 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: I ever see it in someone, I'm so drawn to it. 370 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 1: For instance, if you ever see someone in significant leadership 371 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: say I don't know, Yes, it's rare, but if you 372 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: see it, it's just like it humanizes, uh, the experience, 373 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: And I think you give so many people permission to 374 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,959 Speaker 1: not create this unexpected or this unrealistic expectation of how 375 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: to navigate life. Absolutely, every time I hear someone say 376 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: that to me, I'm like, what a relief? So you 377 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 1: don't know either, because I just feel like I'm trying 378 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,640 Speaker 1: to figure it out on most stage, you know, which 379 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: I think everyone is, but especially with social media, we 380 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: all live in these personas of I'm gonna put this 381 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: out I'm gonna do it too. I'm gonna put this 382 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,719 Speaker 1: out there on my best day, looking my best, doing 383 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: my best, and that's not realistic to real life. Um, 384 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: do you ever feel a pressure to be perfect or 385 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: to have your ship together basically because of what you 386 00:19:55,680 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: do for a living? Yes, what does that look like? Well? 387 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: I I think for a while I really thought that 388 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: that was about my profession. That was an easier thing 389 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: to put it on the pressure and the difficulty, But 390 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: it goes back. I mean, it's an early thing for 391 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 1: me where and I don't necessarily pointed in any direction 392 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: of thinking it was something someone did to me. It 393 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: was just something I picked up along the way, whether 394 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 1: it be in in in church, in in family, in 395 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: and culture. I picked it up and it became important 396 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: for me to get validated externally. And the only way 397 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: to do that is uh, well, in my mind, the 398 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: only way to do that is to be a high 399 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: performer and to do things really well and to have 400 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: it together. And when you get into my profession, you 401 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,439 Speaker 1: can kind of get validation from not having it together. 402 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: Especially in today's climate. That's why you see so many 403 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: people from stages that haven't done much of their own work, 404 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: but they're now manufacturing vulnerability as a way to get 405 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: validation from an AUDIOCE and so. And I'm guilty of 406 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: that too. I started doing that early on, and I 407 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,360 Speaker 1: tried to really watch it as like, am I vulnerable 408 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: in this moment because it it uh is helpful to 409 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: my process and hopefully helpful to others, Or am I 410 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: doing it because I need their validation? And I think 411 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: to some level it's always a little bit of both. 412 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: And I think it's okay as long as you know it, 413 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: but you know, most people don't know it, and uh 414 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: so yeah, I mean I think it was like, um, 415 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: eight years ago when on site was starting to UH 416 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: people were starting to really notice what we were doing 417 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:47,160 Speaker 1: outside of therapeutic circles, and I began to start speaking 418 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: to small, very small groups. At the time that UH, 419 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: I was still single, I was still UH and I 420 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: had just come out of a very difficult toxic relationship 421 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: that I knew better I shouldn't have gotten into, had 422 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: all the information to tell me otherwise. And I was 423 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: just at that At that time, I was desperate to 424 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: find my partner and I and I think I was 425 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,479 Speaker 1: desperate on two reasons. One, I was just dealing with 426 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: some loneliness uh. And too I thought this need to uh, 427 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: like you, you need to be have family, be married 428 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: in order to represent something that promotes healthy relationships. And 429 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: so I unconsciously was chasing something for the wrong reason 430 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: and um, and the outcome was predictable. I got into 431 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: a pretty painful circumstance and it reactivated some of my 432 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 1: old stuff. And I'll never forget having to sit in 433 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,880 Speaker 1: front of my team. But I trust my team emphatically. 434 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 1: They're amazing and just say, um, guys, I'm not my 435 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: best right now, I'm not in a healthy spot, and 436 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: I'm gonna need to step out and get healthy and 437 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: uh and I'm gonna, you know, trust you guys to 438 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: take this and and and do what I know you'll 439 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: do well with and and they did. It was amazing. 440 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: And I stepped out and did some deep, intensive work. Um, 441 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: but that was easier for me. To do internally. Uh, 442 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: it's taken years for me to talk about it externally, 443 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: and I have talked about it a lot um, but 444 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: it's taken years for me to say, oh, yeah, there 445 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: was a time, even at the peak of my career, 446 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 1: where I had a wheels falling off moment and had 447 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,360 Speaker 1: to do something about it. So I do think it's 448 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: what I learned from that and now getting to work 449 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 1: with a lot of people who are influencing at a 450 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: big scale, regardless of where it is it's a megachurch 451 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 1: pastor or an entertainer. There's too much pressure, uh, to 452 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 1: not have grace and permission to have moments like that, 453 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: And that's why I think so many people we see 454 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: them crash and falling apart, and we're seeing a spike 455 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: in suicide and mental health issues, and it's frankly devastating 456 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,159 Speaker 1: because people are living with that message that I had 457 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: at the time. It's just I was thankful to be 458 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: surrounded by good resources, or I could have been a 459 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: statistic but yeah. So I think what I've learned in 460 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,199 Speaker 1: that is that the profession itself can bring pressure, but 461 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: ultimately it's more a core thing. If I really strip 462 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: it back, that I have to continue to pursue the 463 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 1: more on right, it's a constant thing you'll always deal with. 464 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: I feel like that to me, just the pressures like 465 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: you're talking about. I heard you say to um you 466 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 1: really love working with creatives and helping them in their experience. 467 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: Is there something different you see with creatives and what 468 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: they face versus what you know a normal business person 469 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 1: might face, Like, what are the different challenges Creatives? I 470 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: think are wired a little differently and therefore are can 471 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: be highly sensitive, and that can be both a detriment 472 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:50,679 Speaker 1: and a significant advantage because I think sensitive uh, sensitive 473 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: people who have creativity activated on board in a sense 474 00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: become natural impaths and therefore take on what the world 475 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: delivers and translates it for the rest of us through 476 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: their art, whether it's a songwriter or an artist, and 477 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 1: that can be in a sense you're a vessel. So 478 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: you're taking this pain from your story or from other 479 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 1: people's stories, translating it into something that is digestible for 480 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: the rest of us to be able to unconsciously heal from. 481 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: And that's a big ask if you think about it, 482 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: and if you don't know that going in, then you 483 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: can easily take on all that vicarious or secondary pain 484 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: or trauma and couple that with your own likely which 485 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 1: is maybe what got you into the business to begin with. 486 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: And it can be a recipe for a significant challenge. 487 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 1: But the advantage is when you get creatives into UM 488 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 1: therapeutic or counseling or change circles, they typically thrive, which 489 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 1: is one of the reasons I there's two reasons I 490 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 1: like working with creatives. Is I love the way they 491 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: love the way they respond to the model. I most 492 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: aspire to the experiential UM, and I feel I owe 493 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: a debt to the creative because the creative there's a 494 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 1: personal commitment there that I was. I didn't have a 495 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 1: lot of artistic influence growing up. Grew up in a 496 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 1: tiny town in the South, and I love my town, 497 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:17,400 Speaker 1: such good people. But um to be recognized, the easiest 498 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 1: way was athlete f or sports outdoorsman, and I love 499 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: those and I excelled it both and that's what I did. Uh. 500 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 1: But I think there was always this creative, artistic part 501 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,679 Speaker 1: of me that was kind of screaming to have a voice. 502 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: And I found my voice, my creative voice and my 503 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: emotion through music and film, and so some of the 504 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: early times that I learned to cry was in a 505 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: song or a movie. And I'll never and I don't, 506 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: I won't forget it. I still it's the easiest thing. 507 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: My favorite movies are sad movies, and because I enjoy 508 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: the cathartic release that I get when I go and cry. 509 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: And so I'm a guy that likes chick flicks and 510 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: and it's uh, but I've always felt like, you know, 511 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: how many people like me UM get to disappear for 512 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,400 Speaker 1: an hour and a half in a movie. Of course, 513 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: movie theaters are a lost art. Now it's in your 514 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: at home and netfork, but where a song can take 515 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: us somewhere else. And I just think I believe art 516 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: has the ability to change the world. And therefore I've 517 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: always felt like I owed a debt of service to 518 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 1: the creative to keep them in the game. Yeah you 519 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: said something about UM. I wasn't trying to fund it 520 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: in my notes because I think this is true. You 521 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: said that you love the art of communication and connection, 522 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: which when I heard that, I mean, this is kind 523 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,640 Speaker 1: of speaking to the creatives too. To me, I was like, yes, 524 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 1: that is an art, and we don't ever talk about 525 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 1: that that that is such an art to connect and 526 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: to communicate with people. So let's talk a little bit 527 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: about that, like connection. How important have you seen UM 528 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: connection to be in this healing process? I would I 529 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: would would simply say it's everything. I think that's what 530 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: we're all looking for, hoping for and longing to experience, 531 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,640 Speaker 1: is just to feel seeing heard and valued and kind 532 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,439 Speaker 1: of to give and receive empathy. And that's connection to me. 533 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 1: And that's usually UH people who come to us, whether 534 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: they're in struggle or they just want to raise their 535 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: EQ and continue to dig and live a better life, 536 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,479 Speaker 1: they're a bit untethered or disconnected because that's just what 537 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 1: life does to us. And we get the opportunity. I 538 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,479 Speaker 1: think we get wounded and experience, and if people can 539 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: curate experiences for us to heal in UH, then we 540 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: can walk away feeling more grounded and connected and we 541 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: don't have to do that in therapeutic circles. That's another 542 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 1: thing I advocate for is I do think the world 543 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: would benefit from counseling if it were available to everybody, 544 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: if everybody could afford it and do it. But I 545 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: also think that counseling and therapy from its principle or 546 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: base shouldn't just be reserved for the nonymity of an office, 547 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: and it's should be humanized and be in our living rooms, 548 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: and it should be the way we communicate. There's elements 549 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: of it I think you're important, and there's elements of 550 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: it that I think, why have we done this in 551 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: a closed door where nobody sees you, nobody hears you? 552 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: And so I think anonymity has gotten too much emphasis, 553 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: and therefore it keeps us from having meaningful, meaningful, connected conversations. 554 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: But that was I went on a tangent there. But 555 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: connection I'm a big advocate for, and I do think 556 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: there's a science to it, which clearly you can track. 557 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: But I love creatives because there's an art uh in 558 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: how they can clarify a complex circumstance and put it 559 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: into a lyric or uh And it's the most beautiful 560 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: thing ever. Uh And that's so uh uh. Yeah. I 561 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: had a songwriter in a couple of weeks ago, Luke Dick, 562 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: and he talked about that because I've always been envious 563 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: of songwriters, honestly, because the way that they can put 564 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: words out there that say exactly what I'm feeling, you know, 565 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: they can just they can verbalize it. And he said 566 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: one of the biggest moments of connection for him is 567 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: watching people in the audience, you know, nod to his 568 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: lyrics or sing along, because he knows that in that moment, 569 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: they are the same and they feel the same thing, 570 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: which was so beautiful to me and such a It's 571 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: such an interesting point of the creative art and world 572 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 1: that you're talking about. Yeah, the songs for me, and 573 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons we're we work with so 574 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: many songwriters and an artists. They just I think they 575 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: I believe they change more hearts than we'll ever do 576 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: in a place like on site. Yeah. Um, let's talk 577 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: about with connection. You know, there's two ways I think 578 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: you can that are important to connect. Connecting with yourself 579 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: and then connecting with others. How important is it to 580 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: connect with yourself first before you're able to connect with others. 581 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: Great question. I think it's essential, but I don't think 582 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: it's natural. So I think it can be a little 583 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: bit of a set up to over prescribe that. Okay, 584 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: what do you mean? Meaning that is insight that has 585 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: been around for a while, but now it's really popular 586 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: meanings that you can't love anybody until you love yourself. 587 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: You can't do a relationship to either relationship yourself, you 588 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: can't connect. So I aspire to it a percent believe it, 589 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: but I try to give people grace on that because 590 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: I don't think we fully learned to connect with ourselves 591 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: until we have a mira of what connection looks like. 592 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: And that's rare because a lot of relationships don't experience 593 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: true connection. They are set up with UM advice. And 594 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: I believe connection is when I can go to you 595 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: and share something challenging, difficult or beautiful and inspiring and 596 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: you can catch that and hold it and just mirror 597 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: it back and not try to UM change it or 598 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: do anything with it. Uh. And whenever we experience that, 599 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: it's just like I really feel heard, I really feel seen. 600 00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: And that's so basically listening as a lost art. And 601 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: I think when you feel truly listened to uh in 602 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: mirrored from another human being, it teaches us to be 603 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: able to do that with ourselves. So I believe. So, yes, 604 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,239 Speaker 1: I believe connecting with ourselves is essential before we can 605 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: do it with others. But sometimes others can teach us 606 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: how to do it with ourselves. You said on the 607 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 1: All Our Favorite People podcasts, who they are two of 608 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: my favorite people. Um. But she said that that you 609 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: when you hit kind of whatever you want to call it, 610 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: your bottom or whatever. A huge thing that you realized 611 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: about the depression and anxiety you were feeling was that 612 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 1: it came from not being able to be the real you, 613 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: or even to know the real you. Can you talk 614 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: a little bit about that. I mean, that's the beauty 615 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: of any growth personal growth pursuit is uh and and 616 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: and that that part is not linear. It doesn't like 617 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: once you discover yourself, you land on it. Um. Discovering 618 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: yourself I've learned in the personal growth process is rediscovering yourself. 619 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: And you you do that as many times as you 620 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: need to. It could be a daily walk, a weekly walker, 621 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: once a year, or somebody might want to do a 622 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: tune up and it's like, oh, there you are. Here 623 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: I am Because we go out into the world and 624 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: we lose parts of ourselves. We never lose our core 625 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: I don't believe, but we lose parts of ourselves and 626 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: then we get we collect them. I love what Berne 627 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: says about we don't connect the dots until we collect 628 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: the dots. And I think that's a way of trying 629 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: to integrate ourselves. And then UM also set with UM. 630 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: I spoke at an event for creatives called Story a 631 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago and Linda Gosh, Linda Wolburton, who 632 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: was an incredible writer. UM. She wrote Beauty and the 633 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: Beast and Alice in Wonderland, Lion King, Homeward Bound, and 634 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: she just and that's just a few She's just brilliant. 635 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 1: She does a legend and in that world. And I 636 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: got a chance to talk to her. We had dinner, 637 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: and I was so inspired because I'm obviously an aspiring 638 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: aufer and working on a book and but can get 639 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: hung up in my UM in all the challenges of 640 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: being a writer. But something she said that stood out 641 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 1: to me was she said writing is rewriting. That's all 642 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 1: it is. And when I heard that, I was like, 643 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,240 Speaker 1: oh my gosh. That's the same thing about discovering ourselves. 644 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 1: It's rediscovering ourselves because I think people think you're supposed 645 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 1: to land there, and I think it's one of those 646 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: things that we're always gonna lose parts of who we are, 647 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: but we always get to get them back when we're 648 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: in pursuit of that. So it's kind of like what 649 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: you said earlier about looking outside for your answers, but 650 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 1: you actually know the answers inside that you already know 651 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: all the stuff, right, so you can that I'm trying 652 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:38,320 Speaker 1: to connect this rewriting thing. That's so I've never heard that, well, 653 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 1: it's yeah, ultimately, um, people the people would say that 654 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: no one wants to have their problems pointed out to them. 655 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,359 Speaker 1: The one wants to be told you have a problem. 656 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 1: And I think the reason people don't want to be 657 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: told they have a problem is nobody also shares that 658 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 1: you also have the solution. And think when you hear 659 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 1: it that way, it's a much more invitational opportunity. It's 660 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: like we all have problems, but we all have the solutions. 661 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,919 Speaker 1: And that's in a sense a really good guide, which 662 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 1: I think really good therapist counselor's friends and are just 663 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 1: guides in their own right, meaning they don't have to 664 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: be the hero of the story. They can just be 665 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 1: Yoda and you know, walk you through that art. But 666 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: to to do that effectively, um, you have to really 667 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: sideline your ego and what you think you know, and 668 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 1: hold space for somebody to find ultimately what they need 669 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,720 Speaker 1: to do. And it's really good. Therapy is incredible listening 670 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: and holding space and it is a true art. But 671 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: if you can, and it's frustrating for someone you're talking to, 672 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 1: because when we are in pain or stuck in struggle, 673 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 1: we want someone to tell us what we do. We 674 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 1: crave it. It's like, give me the three steps to 675 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 1: get the heck out of here, And that's what most 676 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: self help books will tell you. And um, and to 677 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,839 Speaker 1: be honest, I'm not When I write mine, it will 678 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: probably be in the self help category and it will 679 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 1: probably have some steps because that's just what people consume. 680 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: But I hope I can do it in a way 681 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,280 Speaker 1: where I'm not over promising that that's going to fix 682 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 1: you or create sustainable change, because it's just deeper than that. 683 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 1: It's more layered. And um, when people find their own answer, 684 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: they are again I said this the beginning twice as 685 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 1: likely to integrate it. It's just we have to have 686 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 1: the patience to support people and give them the confidence 687 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: to get there. That is so true because I'm a 688 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: recovering advice giver and yeah, you know, it's so sometimes 689 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,279 Speaker 1: it's so easy and other people to see what you're like, 690 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 1: if you would just do this, this will get better. 691 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: But until they're actually ready, it's not going to settle 692 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 1: in or I've heard also to denial. Ripping someone out 693 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 1: of denial is almost cruel because sometimes there that's their 694 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: protector and they need that denial to survive in that moment. 695 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,799 Speaker 1: But I don't know, and I know it's true for me. 696 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 1: If someone tells me what to do, I'm like whatever, 697 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: and then a month later I'm like, oh man, that 698 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: was right. You know, until you're ready, you're just not ready. Well, 699 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 1: there's there's as with everything. This is something, but I'm 700 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 1: glad to hear you subscribe to it to Uh, there's exceptions. 701 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: I mean, if if somebody's you know, really in a 702 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,840 Speaker 1: dire circumstance on the edge, standing on bridge, then you 703 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:13,799 Speaker 1: do what you need to do. All bets are off 704 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: and you intervene with whatever tools that you have available 705 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,759 Speaker 1: and confront, grab, pull off, do whatever you need to do. 706 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: But when you're with someone who's genuinely safe, but they're 707 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: curious and stuck and trying, that's where the magic is 708 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:31,759 Speaker 1: creating a highway for them to to find their own answer. UM, 709 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 1: you talked a little bit about the relationship you were 710 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 1: in after you started on site. So had you done 711 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,400 Speaker 1: a lot of work of maybe these intensives and that 712 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: kind of thing before you got married? H I had 713 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,919 Speaker 1: you mean couples intences are individual? Just individual? Like, Yeah, 714 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:52,800 Speaker 1: I did a lot. I've done a lot of work 715 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: over the years, and prior to UM getting involved in 716 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 1: on site, I UH ran another program that was a 717 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 1: residential treatment program for addictions, eating disorders, and trauma. It's 718 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 1: more longer term, and so I learned a lot in 719 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,319 Speaker 1: that space. But I have always kind of done my 720 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 1: own work ever since that an initial imprint. There's been 721 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,279 Speaker 1: seasons where I haven't done as much of it, but 722 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 1: I've tried to stay consistent with it. I've always looked 723 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: at it like it's not something I have to do, 724 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 1: It's something I get to do. UH, And I'm opting 725 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: in and choosing because I've just experienced the value in it, 726 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:32,319 Speaker 1: whether life's going beautifully or whether life is struggling. It's 727 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,800 Speaker 1: that's why I describe it or I like to describe 728 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,719 Speaker 1: it as emotional fitness UM, because I just think it's 729 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 1: something we treat just like our physical health, and continue 730 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 1: to do it. So when you met your wife, had 731 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 1: she done work too? I guess, Okay, let me tell 732 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,840 Speaker 1: you what I'm trying to get out of here. I'm curious, 733 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 1: and this is probably because of my own dating experiences. 734 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,280 Speaker 1: Is it possible as someone who's connected in that way 735 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 1: and done that, done a little bit of work even, 736 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,320 Speaker 1: or kind of had that opening experience? There's AHA moments 737 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: over talks about two Can you be with someone who 738 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,800 Speaker 1: has not done that themselves? Or did you find yourself 739 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 1: being drawn to people who were like minded and could 740 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 1: speak the language? Yes? Uh, you can do that without someone. 741 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: And I think we have to be careful. This is 742 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: just again in my opinion, and take it for what 743 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:32,799 Speaker 1: it's worth of not UM. And I say this from 744 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:38,759 Speaker 1: experience because I did it where H unconsciously created a 745 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 1: platform for myself and other people who had done work. 746 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 1: And we're a little bit more evolved than others who 747 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:50,920 Speaker 1: have it. And there is a language that UM can 748 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,879 Speaker 1: familiarize your life experience after you've done some personal work 749 00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:01,279 Speaker 1: that is so comforting and so insightful and so in 750 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 1: some cases necessary. But I believe that when you continue 751 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:12,399 Speaker 1: to work on yourself. Um. You you don't search for 752 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 1: safety out there, you realize safety exists in here. And 753 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,040 Speaker 1: therefore you can be in relationships and with people and 754 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 1: around people who don't speak the same language, who don't 755 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,359 Speaker 1: necessarily have the same skill sets, and be able to 756 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: take care of yourself in that environment and see the 757 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,400 Speaker 1: good in them. And we also see where you need 758 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 1: to put boundaries up around unreconciled things. But without work, 759 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 1: we typically can get trauma bonded or drawn to, and 760 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,440 Speaker 1: even with work, because when you do the work, you're 761 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,840 Speaker 1: not perfect, you know, I still you know, can be 762 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,760 Speaker 1: attracted to or drawn friendships. Uh. I had a really 763 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,400 Speaker 1: good friend of mine UM who got after me to 764 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,920 Speaker 1: three years ago in a kind way. She has permission 765 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:53,759 Speaker 1: to do that because we pour into each other a lot. 766 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 1: But she said, Miles, you've got to stop hiring to heal. 767 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 1: And I was like, when you hit me right at 768 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 1: my core because I didn't recognize I was doing that. 769 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 1: I'd cleaned up a lot of my codependent behaviors in 770 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,400 Speaker 1: my social circles. Uh. And I was getting a need 771 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: met or a fix with people. I was hiring an 772 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:17,400 Speaker 1: organization so I would amazing talented people incredibly unreconciled in 773 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 1: parts of their lives, and I am conscious you should be, like, 774 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 1: I think our culture could benefit you, and I think 775 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,839 Speaker 1: you could benefit our culture. And I ended up. You know, 776 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,280 Speaker 1: you can. It's predictable. It was two years of a mess. 777 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:32,279 Speaker 1: It was the wrong intention, and so I had to 778 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 1: learn not to hire to heal. And that's ten years 779 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,759 Speaker 1: into having all this information totally, I mean. And also 780 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:39,279 Speaker 1: it's one of those things, like you said, you can. 781 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 1: You can do a lot of work, especially in one 782 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,920 Speaker 1: area of your life, and before you know, this is 783 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 1: what's happened to me. At least, I've done a lot 784 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,919 Speaker 1: of work around dating and and those kind of things, 785 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:50,799 Speaker 1: because that's where a lot of my trauma has been. 786 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,320 Speaker 1: But then, like you said, it started to see or 787 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,040 Speaker 1: not see. It was always there, but I started to 788 00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 1: recognize it in the other areas of my life, and 789 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,120 Speaker 1: it just I couldn't even see it because this stuff 790 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: was so big first, you know. And yeah, for instance, 791 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,839 Speaker 1: my wife she doesn't like therapy talk. Oh my gosh, 792 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,399 Speaker 1: she can't. She rolls her eyes at me. Really, yeah, 793 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 1: that's interest. We have wonderfully deep conversations. But it can't. 794 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: It doesn't always. You can't always start with through the 795 00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,960 Speaker 1: lens of my language, and I used to. I had 796 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,520 Speaker 1: a lot of false starts and failed attempts of trying 797 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 1: to change her other relationships to start talking more and 798 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:29,719 Speaker 1: learning more like me. And now I think I've learned 799 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 1: to appreciate that sheet. Now it is important. I think 800 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 1: if you really value growth and evolving and trying to 801 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,880 Speaker 1: be a better person and always looking at your marriage 802 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:41,719 Speaker 1: is not stable, but trying to grow it. I say 803 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 1: marriage relationship whatever, your partnership, whatever it is, or someone 804 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,880 Speaker 1: that you have, hopefully have a willing partner that's not stagnant. 805 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:50,880 Speaker 1: That's where I've seen people really get hung up if 806 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:52,799 Speaker 1: you've got one that's in a fixed position and the 807 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,520 Speaker 1: other that is willing to grow. But growth looks different 808 00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,560 Speaker 1: for everybody. That's a hard one because I wanted to 809 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,840 Speaker 1: look exactly the same because then I'm like, Okay, now 810 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,440 Speaker 1: I'm safe because you're doing it too, and I recognize it. 811 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,839 Speaker 1: But my favorite mentors and teachers who have been in 812 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,200 Speaker 1: pursuit of becoming a better version or reconciling old pain, 813 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,719 Speaker 1: whether it be through a spiritual lens or psych psychology 814 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,560 Speaker 1: lens are the ones who can live it without the words. 815 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,920 Speaker 1: And so I want somebody who if somebody is trying 816 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,279 Speaker 1: to talk to me about their faith, I don't I 817 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,239 Speaker 1: don't want that script or that language. I want to 818 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 1: feel that. I want to feel grace, love, connection, and 819 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,560 Speaker 1: I don't want somebody to preach to me, and I 820 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,759 Speaker 1: want to and I we're talking a lot about it, 821 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:37,960 Speaker 1: and I appreciate it because I can have You know, 822 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:39,840 Speaker 1: you have an interest, and I would imagine hopefully a 823 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:41,640 Speaker 1: lot of your listeners might have an interest to I 824 00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,800 Speaker 1: don't often get to talk this much in a therapeutic language, 825 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,799 Speaker 1: but I'm trying to evolve into a spot where I 826 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,399 Speaker 1: have it, but I don't need it to represent who 827 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,680 Speaker 1: I am, because I want to represent the gifts of 828 00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,800 Speaker 1: it versus the how to get there. That's so interesting. 829 00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,280 Speaker 1: I think that's also a huge part of the connecting 830 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,120 Speaker 1: with yourself and kind of knowing maybe how you can 831 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,960 Speaker 1: hear it, but finding the core of that and not 832 00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:08,319 Speaker 1: and being able to communicate that versus the language and 833 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,840 Speaker 1: all of that. Um, you said you don't get to 834 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:14,120 Speaker 1: communicate this way that often about it, but you do 835 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:17,960 Speaker 1: have the podcast platform that you guys, that's how you 836 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,120 Speaker 1: speak right on the Unspoken podcast, we do yeah, for 837 00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 1: the most part. We we um. When we started that, 838 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:28,399 Speaker 1: the idea was how do you take the concept of 839 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:32,560 Speaker 1: or the principles of uh self work or counseling and 840 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:36,400 Speaker 1: therapy and make them digestible for everybody else? And so 841 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 1: that was where and I had people ask me all 842 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:39,840 Speaker 1: the time, what do you do it on site? And 843 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,000 Speaker 1: then you I would get lost in, well, you have 844 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,960 Speaker 1: the all and then it's a huge answer. First of 845 00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,160 Speaker 1: all it is and then I finally was like, well, 846 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,280 Speaker 1: to be honest, we just help people say the unseid. 847 00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,360 Speaker 1: I love that, say the unseid. And that's where the 848 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,759 Speaker 1: podcast was born out of. It was sometimes that's going 849 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,520 Speaker 1: backwards into your past. Sometimes it's current. Sometimes it's speaking 850 00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:59,600 Speaker 1: truth into where you're where you want to go or 851 00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 1: here but coming, but it's say the unsaid. And then 852 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,480 Speaker 1: Unspoken was born from that. And so I bring in 853 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:09,240 Speaker 1: things I've been trained and learned from way smarter than people, 854 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 1: smarter people than me that working on site. But I UM, 855 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:17,040 Speaker 1: ultimately we try to humanize the vulnerable deep conversation. That's 856 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:20,160 Speaker 1: what Unspoken has been about. Some of your guests that. 857 00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,960 Speaker 1: I mean, you guys have huge guests, Bob Golf, R 858 00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,920 Speaker 1: L Vandenberg, John Beattie's, Richard Rohor. I was like they 859 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,919 Speaker 1: were on the Oprah podcast. How did you guys get 860 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:35,640 Speaker 1: connected in that way? You know, Ruthie was a big 861 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,440 Speaker 1: part of that. This is your co host but my 862 00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 1: co host, Yeah, and she, um, she was able to 863 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,200 Speaker 1: connect some of those some of those relationships I had 864 00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:46,879 Speaker 1: through my through on site, and it was just kind 865 00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:51,120 Speaker 1: of it's it's shocked us to UH that people said, yes, 866 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,480 Speaker 1: I'd be happy to be a part of that, and 867 00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:58,680 Speaker 1: um uh for the longest time with UH on site, 868 00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:02,440 Speaker 1: it's it's challenging because I do we do connect with 869 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,800 Speaker 1: and I have a relationship with a lot of interesting 870 00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:10,120 Speaker 1: people doing amazing things. But it's complicated because we try 871 00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,640 Speaker 1: to keep a lot of that anonymous and confidential. UH. 872 00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,760 Speaker 1: And therefore I've never asked much of anybody for anything, 873 00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:19,239 Speaker 1: And now I'm starting to realize that, you know, I 874 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,759 Speaker 1: don't often have I very rarely have a therapeutic relationship 875 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,000 Speaker 1: with someone who would get services and on site, I'm 876 00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,239 Speaker 1: just kind of the bridge to support them to get there. 877 00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,279 Speaker 1: And then we've got a great therapeutic clinical team, and 878 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,640 Speaker 1: so I've started to be a little bit more more 879 00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:39,520 Speaker 1: proactive in obviously following the integrity and the guidelines of 880 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:43,239 Speaker 1: our profession, but just having friendships because friendships travel, and 881 00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,399 Speaker 1: I've learned that podcast and things like what you're doing 882 00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:48,719 Speaker 1: can reach more people than we can it on site, 883 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,719 Speaker 1: and I think that's what's important for culture right now. 884 00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,520 Speaker 1: So I have started asking more people. Um, but between 885 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:56,920 Speaker 1: Ruthie and I, we were just so fortunate that people 886 00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,279 Speaker 1: said yes, particularly people like Richard Rore, who I've looked 887 00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,319 Speaker 1: up to his work for years, and well everybody. I've 888 00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,560 Speaker 1: loved all of our guests, but we've got some amazing people. 889 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,040 Speaker 1: So you mentioned before we started that you're also going 890 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,319 Speaker 1: to be starting a podcast with on site. Yes, that 891 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,040 Speaker 1: was kind of born. I didn't know in the beginning 892 00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,520 Speaker 1: of how I would do with podcasting. It was such 893 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,360 Speaker 1: we were talking about that earlier, and it's it's a 894 00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,120 Speaker 1: it's a skill, it's a whole and some of it 895 00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,760 Speaker 1: comes natural and then some of it has really learned 896 00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,279 Speaker 1: and but I I found I really love it. And 897 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,120 Speaker 1: one of the things that we were attempting to do 898 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:37,319 Speaker 1: in unspoken was we were particular about the guests that 899 00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:41,799 Speaker 1: we wanted, and we were particular about how we wanted 900 00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,720 Speaker 1: the conversations to flow, and I often felt a little 901 00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:48,720 Speaker 1: limited to share more about my world emotional health, mental 902 00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:52,480 Speaker 1: health therapy, UM and we share a lot about it, 903 00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:54,640 Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong. That's a lot of the undertone 904 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,000 Speaker 1: of Unspoken, But a lot of people ask for more. 905 00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:00,520 Speaker 1: Can you say more about emotional trauma? Monk? Can you 906 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,720 Speaker 1: say more about this depression? And I just often didn't 907 00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:06,360 Speaker 1: feel like that was the format to do it. And 908 00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,080 Speaker 1: so this will be the format that I'll get to 909 00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:10,759 Speaker 1: really have free reign to go for it. There's so 910 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,160 Speaker 1: many amazing people that working on site, that are affiliated 911 00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,160 Speaker 1: with on site and then that come through on site 912 00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:18,880 Speaker 1: and they all have awesome stories. And so we're gonna 913 00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:22,200 Speaker 1: start by interviewing some of my friends in the clinical world, 914 00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:24,759 Speaker 1: some of our team and on site, and then some 915 00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:26,880 Speaker 1: amazing alumni that I've been through on site and to 916 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,319 Speaker 1: see where we go from there, well, I personally can't 917 00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:33,040 Speaker 1: wait for that. That will be my therapy sometimes. So 918 00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,239 Speaker 1: where can people find that? I find you? You have 919 00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:37,759 Speaker 1: the Unspoken podcast that's out now. You guys have done 920 00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,600 Speaker 1: two seasons right, right, and then when will this on 921 00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,360 Speaker 1: site podcast be out. We're gonna be launching it early 922 00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,640 Speaker 1: in so just in a few months, and our marquee 923 00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,920 Speaker 1: program is called the Living Centered Program, and so this 924 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,799 Speaker 1: podcast will be called the Living Centered Podcast and uh yeah, 925 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,880 Speaker 1: so we'll I'll be putting it up on our social 926 00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,279 Speaker 1: channels when we're closer to figuring out the release state, 927 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:01,839 Speaker 1: so you can kind of keep an eye on either 928 00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,160 Speaker 1: at on site workshops or at Miles A. Cox in between, 929 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,000 Speaker 1: the two of us will try to communicate that when 930 00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,840 Speaker 1: it gets closer, and it's Miles m I L E. 931 00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,680 Speaker 1: S Correct ad Cox, So at Miles ad Cox at 932 00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,799 Speaker 1: on site. The on site website is amazing too. It's 933 00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,520 Speaker 1: super informative if people are interested. What is it? Just 934 00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,279 Speaker 1: on site dot com, on site workshops dot com, on 935 00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,160 Speaker 1: site Workshops dot com. Thank you so much for being here. 936 00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:27,040 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you for a really long time. 937 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:30,239 Speaker 1: So this is really exciting and fulfilling for me because 938 00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,719 Speaker 1: I love this kind of conversation. Thank you so much. 939 00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:35,399 Speaker 1: This was one of my more fun podcasts. This was fun. 940 00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,600 Speaker 1: Thank you awesome, Thank you guys for listening. This is 941 00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:42,000 Speaker 1: Kelly Henderson and you've been listening to the Velvet's Edge podcast. 942 00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:44,759 Speaker 1: I truly believe that every one of us has a 943 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,760 Speaker 1: little velvet and a little edge, so it's so important 944 00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,960 Speaker 1: to remember that to be strong, you must be soft too. 945 00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,879 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing in those stories with me. 946 00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,360 Speaker 1: You can follow Velvet's Edge on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter, 947 00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,120 Speaker 1: as well as velvet's Edge dot com. If you have 948 00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,400 Speaker 1: it yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe, rate and 949 00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:07,520 Speaker 1: review this podcast. Join me every Wednesday for more conversations 950 00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:12,200 Speaker 1: on lifestyle, beauty, and relationships. Thanks for listening, h