1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Up next out Loud with Jianno Caldwell part of the 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: beginning with Facebook and Twitter suppresses a news story that's 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 1: damaging to Joe Biden's campaign, The Senate prepares to vote 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: on Amy coney Bear's nomination to the Supreme Court, and 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: George Floyd and Brianna Taylor cases continue to dominate the headlines. 6 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,319 Speaker 1: Today I discussed all of this and much more with 7 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: Professor Alan Dershowitz, one of the world's most prominent lawyers 8 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: and legal scholars. This is Outlied with Gianno Calledwell. Welcome 9 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: back to Outlowed with Gianno Calledwell. My guest is Alan Dershowitz, 10 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 1: the constitutional scholar and longtime professor at Harvard Law School. 11 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: He has defended numerous famous clients, including Mike Tyson and O. J. 12 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 1: Simpson and a lot of us remember that O. J. 13 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: Simpson case, and he was a member of President Trump's 14 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: defense team during his impeachment proceedings earlier this year. Professor 15 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: Dershowitz is also the author of literally dozens of books, 16 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: including his latest work, which is just out. It's entitled 17 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: Cancel Culture, Latest Attack on Free Speech and Due Process, 18 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: And of course, here at Outlawed with Giano called well 19 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: Well the sworn enemy of PC culture. So we're in 20 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: good company with the professor. Professor Dershowitz, thank you for 21 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 1: coming on the show. It's a pleasure to speak with you. 22 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: As I said, just this week, you're releasing the new 23 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: book entitled Cancel Culture, the latest attack on free speech 24 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: and do process. Would you tell us more about the book. Well, 25 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: I grew up as a liberal, loving free speech and 26 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: do process and constitutional rights, and now I see that 27 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: many people who call themselves liberal and progressives are opposed 28 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: to free speech. Free speech from me, but not for 29 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: thee Trying to stop dissenting views from being heard on 30 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: college campuses, trying to get social media to censor views 31 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: they disagree with. When it comes to due process, they 32 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: presume people guilty if they're charged, if they're accused, particularly 33 00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: of any kind of sexual misconduct, political misconduct. And so 34 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: it's been so disappointing to me to see people on 35 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: the left becoming stalinists, essentially wanting to repress freedom and 36 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: free speech, using any means to achieve the ends that 37 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: they want to achieve. Most of those are ends I 38 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: agree with. I would love to see more equality and 39 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,239 Speaker 1: more social justice, all of that, more rights for women, 40 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: more rights for people of color. I want to see 41 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: all those goals achieved, but I want to see them 42 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,679 Speaker 1: achieved by means consistent with the Constitution. Would do process, 43 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: with free speech and with liberal values. Can you tell 44 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: us why cancel culture? It's so dangerous? I think that, 45 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 1: as we've been seeing these past few years, a lot 46 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: of people lose everything. Folks have lose everything just by 47 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: something they may have said twenty years ago. Why is 48 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: this so dangerous to our society now? Well, before we 49 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 1: get to people who have said or done something twenty 50 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: or thirty years ago, let's talk about people who have 51 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: done nothing wrong. Let's talk about me. I was canceled by, 52 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: for example, the nine Street Y, which was a liberal 53 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: bastion of Jewish thought for twenty five years. I spoke 54 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: there at least once, maybe twice a year. But when 55 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: I was falsely accused of sexual misconduct by a woman 56 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: I never met and never heard of street, why, I said, 57 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: we know you're innocent, we know you did nothing wrong, 58 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: but we don't want trouble, and so we're canceling you. 59 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: You can't speak here anymore. That reminds me of when 60 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,119 Speaker 1: I was growing up with McCarthy is M. People were 61 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: accused of being communists or supporting communism. In my case, 62 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: I was a college uh student president of the student government, 63 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: and I was an anti communist myself, but I supported 64 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: the right of communists to teach and to speak, and 65 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: so I was labeled a fellow traveler and a leftist 66 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: and a pinko and all of that. So we start 67 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: with people who have been canceled for doing nothing wrong, 68 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: nothing wrong at all, and have no opportunity to prove 69 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: their innocence because they're presumed guilty. If a woman accused you, 70 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: how could you possibly be innocent? You must be guilty. 71 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: Even if the woman has a long history of lying, 72 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: a long history of lying for money, a long history 73 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: of collaborating with extortionists, doesn't matter. She's a woman, you're 74 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: a man. You're guilty, and you're canceled. Then we get 75 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: to people who may have done something wrong by the 76 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 1: standards of their day, it may not have been anything. 77 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 1: Let's go back to really go back in history. George Washington. 78 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: Let me tell you two things about George Washington, one bad, 79 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: one good. So George Washington had slaves, horrible, a man 80 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: unimaginable than any decent person could own another human being 81 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 1: could enslave a human being. It is just incomprehensible to 82 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 1: the modern mind. But the same George Washington went to 83 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: a Newport, Rhode Island and wrote a letter to the 84 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: Jewish Congregation of the report saying, we are they going 85 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: to be the first kind tree in the history of 86 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: the world not to discriminate based on religion. For bigger tree, 87 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,600 Speaker 1: there will be no sanction in America, and the children 88 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: of Abraham will be able to sit under the big 89 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: Tree as long as their good citizens. The first time 90 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: in world history, Jews will recognized as equal. So you 91 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: have a man who enslaved blacks and who emancipated Jews, 92 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: how do you judge them in history? Do you tear 93 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: down his statute? Do you teach students about the complexity 94 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 1: of human beings that here you can have one human 95 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: being whoso's incredible sensitivity towards one persecuted group Jews, White Jews, 96 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: to be sure, mostly smartic Jews in those days, but 97 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: still white and total intolerance towards people who have been 98 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: enslaved against their will. Life's complex, Life's full of nuances, 99 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: and cancel culture as a recognized that if you've done 100 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 1: anything wrong in your life, your statue comes down. Your 101 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: history is a race. You're not allowed to speak. It's 102 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: the end of everything. Well, I really agree with that assessment. Now, 103 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: I'm really intrigued by if you've seen someone a recent 104 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: cancelation that you thought the person actually deserved to be canceled. Yeah, 105 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: I mean you get cases where people have done just terrible, 106 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: terrible things. Um, you know, I just think of some 107 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: of my own clients, Jeffrey Epstein. He saw what he 108 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 1: was accused of doing. He certainly, even though he's dead 109 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: and can't defend himself, deserves to be regarded by history 110 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 1: as somebody who did, you know, terrible and awful things. 111 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: But even cancelation makes no sense. What you do as 112 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: you tell the story, you learn lessons from the story. 113 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 1: He who fails to understand the lessons of history is 114 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: doomed to repeat it. So, you know, it's interesting. There's 115 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: an old Jewish expression that I was taught by my grandmother. 116 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: Anytime she mentioned the name Hitler, she would say, after 117 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: a two ish words, yamah shamo means his name shall 118 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: be a race. Hitler his name shall be a race. 119 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: And I remember, even as a kid, saying no, no, no, 120 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: I don't want Hitler's name to be a race. I 121 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: want the world to understand what hit was did. I 122 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: don't want slavery to be erased from our history. I 123 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: want to content at the concept of slavery, of course, 124 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: but the history of slavery should be known to everybody. 125 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: The history of oppression of women should be known to everybody, 126 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: the history of discrimination against gays should be known to everybody. 127 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: So so no, nothing should really be canceled. People should explain. 128 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: I'll give you another example. Went to the Museum a 129 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: couple of years ago and there was an exhibit in 130 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: honor of Gertrude Stein, the great art collector who may 131 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: have discovered Picasso and Matisse. And it was a incredibly 132 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: positive rendition of her life, but it left out the 133 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: fact that she loved Hitler. She dominated Hitler for the 134 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: Nobel Peace Prize. She talked about him, was one of 135 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: the great people of the century. She collaborated with the 136 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: head of the Gestapo. She's Jewish and she lived a 137 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: free and open life in France during the occupation when 138 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: Jewish children and being taken to death camps, and so 139 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: the people who saw her exhibit didn't know that. And 140 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: I got the museum to sell a book which told 141 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: the whole story strange collaboration by a woman named Barbara 142 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: will and who and and to put notes on the exhibit. 143 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: So we didn't censor. We didn't have less speech, we 144 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: had more speech. We added to the fact that the 145 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: people knew about her great art taste, the fact that 146 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: here's a woman with such artistic sensitivities who thought the 147 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: world of Adolf Hitler and wanted to see him get 148 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: the Nobel Peace Prize. The more you know, the more 149 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: you understand the complexities history. So no, I I take 150 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: it back. I don't think anybody should be erased. People 151 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: should have their history changed as we learned new things 152 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: about them, but not a race. We have to learn 153 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: from the past, and Professor I want to follow up 154 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: with you on that, but first we have to take 155 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: a commercial break. Will be right back now. As as 156 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: a follow up, you mentioned Epstein, and it seems as 157 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: though there's a lot of powerful people who fear what 158 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: have come out of the Epstein situation. And there's been 159 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 1: these theories and people can call them conspiracy theories or 160 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 1: whatever you want to say about that. About his death, 161 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: do you think that he actually killed himself or what 162 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,599 Speaker 1: do you think may have happened there? I think he 163 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 1: probably killed himself. He was a heatonist. He lived for 164 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: his pleasures, and the idea that he would be spending 165 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: the next thirty years of his life in a prison 166 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 1: cell with no access to any of his pleasures was 167 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: too much for him. So I think he decided to 168 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: kill himself. But I don't think he could have done alone. 169 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: Normally there are cameras. Normally the cellmate. Suddenly the cellmate 170 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: was taken out, the cameras disappeared, we turned offful of broken. 171 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 1: My suspicion is just the suspicion. But knowing Epstein, because 172 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: I was his lawyer for a couple of years, knowing him, 173 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,679 Speaker 1: I suspect he may have passed some cash around in 174 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: the prison and told people please could be better. If 175 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: the cameras weren't on tonight, that wouldn't surprise me. But 176 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 1: it would surprise me if he were murdered. I doubt that. Look, 177 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: I want the whole truth to come out. I wish 178 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: there were videotapes at every moment of Epstein's life, every 179 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: moment of my life, because I didn't do anything wrong, 180 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: and the video tapes would prove that, as I said 181 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: from day one one, I was falsely accused that. I 182 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: hope there are pictures. I hope they're videotapes because they'll 183 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: show that the only person I've had sex with since 184 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: the day I met Jeffrey Epstein as my wife is 185 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: thirty four years m that's amazing. I'm glad to hear that, professor, 186 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: thank you for cleaning Yeah. I don't think many of 187 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: my accusers and many of the lawyers who are accusing 188 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: me could say that I challenged David boy to get 189 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: on your show and say he's had sex with only 190 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 1: one woman in the relevant period of time. I mean, 191 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 1: he's well known as somebody who couldn't honestly, incredibly make 192 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 1: that kind of a statement. I can well, I'm looking 193 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 1: forward to challenging him on on that place. Switching gears 194 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: a little bit, You're no stranger to the devil's advocate 195 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: position and the point of view social justice warrior. Isn't 196 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: it about time that people started paying the price where 197 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: insensitive races or hurtful remarks. Yes, and they should pay 198 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: a price. And the price should be criticism in the 199 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: marketplace of ideas, but not shutting them down. Um, they 200 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: should pay a price. And anybody who's done anything wrong 201 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: should pay a price. Look and and where do you 202 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: stop take my hero Martin Luther King. I was there 203 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: when he made his fantastic speech. Um in Washington, I 204 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: have a dream. It's one of the most important days 205 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: of my life. I was there with a federal judge 206 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: who I was clerking for. It was absolutely amazing. And 207 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: you know, now we learned that his private life was 208 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: not perfect, and there are some tape recordings that are 209 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: like we had come out in twenty years that put 210 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: some negatives. Should he be a race, of course, not 211 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: statue should be built him. We should have a day 212 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: in his honor. And if it's turned out to be 213 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: proved that he didn't live the perfect private life, that's 214 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: part of what we want our students to know. You know, 215 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: the great thing about the Jewish Bible is none of 216 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: its heroes were perfect. Abraham was very, very imperfect. He 217 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: argued God, he broke his father's property, he lied about 218 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: his sister David. The terrible things the Jewish Bible is 219 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: filled with flawed heroes. Christian Bible, on the other hand, 220 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: and the Muslim Kuran, their heroes are without flaw Who 221 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 1: wouldn't want to have a child that lived the perfect 222 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: life of Jesus or Mohammed uh they are without flaw. 223 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: But the Jewish Bible was stilled with very important people, 224 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: but who were not flawless in their private life. And 225 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: that's why I always loved the Jewish Bible, and that's 226 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: why I always love stories about great heroes and great 227 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: leaders who were imperfect in their lives, because that's the 228 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: world we live in. Yeah, and I agree with that 229 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: in terms of disrecognizing that people have the ability to 230 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 1: kind of say what they wanted to say. And here 231 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: it allow with Giano Calldwell, with a sworn enemy of 232 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: PC culture side, I appreciate that take on that. Now, 233 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: continuing on free speech, we're seeing social media companies increasingly 234 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: prioritizing censorship over free speech, with conservatives often bearing the 235 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: brunt of that. Most recently, we just saw Facebook and 236 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: Twitter basically block users from posting or reading a New 237 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,479 Speaker 1: York Post story on Joe Biden's son Hunter. Many conservatives 238 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: think this was a political of course I believe that 239 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: to be the case as well, because this story was 240 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: damage to Joe Biden. How do we hold these social 241 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 1: media giants accountable for free expression while still respecting their 242 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: rights to conduct their own business. It's the greatest, the 243 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: most important free speech question of the century, because social 244 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: media is the wave not only of the future, but 245 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: of the present. We have a statute which distinguishes social 246 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: media platforms because their platforms from publishers. So if The 247 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: New York Times has an up ed in which they 248 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: accused me of something wrong which I didn't do, I 249 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: can sue The New York Times. But if Twitter has 250 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: tweet after tweet after tweet accusing me of sexual misconduct, 251 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: even though the evidence has conclusively proved that I never 252 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: met the woman who accused me, her own emails, her 253 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: own lawyer has admitted at all of that. But Twitter 254 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: can get away with that because they say, we don't censor, 255 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: We're just a platform. Anything goes. So once they start censoring, 256 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: then they no longer are a platform. They're now a 257 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: publisher and they have to be accountable because, just to 258 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: put it very personally, if Twitter says we're not going 259 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: to run the hunter Biden stuff because it may not 260 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: be true, and then they run the anti Alan Dershowitz stuff. 261 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: The reader says, gee, Twitter must have concluded that the 262 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: Dershowitz stuff is true, because if they concluded it was 263 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: not true, they wouldn't have run it the way they 264 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: didn't run the Hunter Biden stuff. So they can't have 265 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: it both ways. There either have to be a platform 266 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: or a publisher. If there are a platform, after on everything. 267 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: If they're a publisher, they have to be responsible for 268 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: what they do run and what they don't run. Right now, 269 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: they're getting the benefit of being a platform, and they're 270 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: taking advantage by being a publisher and deciding what to 271 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: publish and what to suppress. So with with section to 272 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: thirty would provide a shield to social media companies and 273 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: freed them from litigation. Do you think that that needs 274 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: to be revoked or there needs to be a clear 275 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: interpretation of the law as to what Section to thirty 276 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,040 Speaker 1: really means and in order to be able to to 277 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: be revised, it has to be revised. It has to 278 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: be revised, and every social media has to check a 279 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: box and the box has to say this, are you 280 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: a platform or a publisher? And If you're a platform, 281 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: you cannot censor anything. You're a taxi cab. The first 282 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: person to wave you down, you have to take them 283 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: to wherever they want to go. Don't matter who they are, 284 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: what they look like. As long as they have the 285 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: money to pay you the fair you have to take them. 286 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: Or if you want to go you're a taxicab, that's fine. 287 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: If you want to be something other than that. If 288 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: you want to be the New York Times and decide 289 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: not to publish the post story about Hunter Biden but published, 290 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: then they get the stuff of that aland ershu It, 291 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: then you're no longer a platform. You're a publisher. So 292 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: you have to check the box of publisher. If you're 293 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: a publisher, you don't get the immunity of Section two thirty. 294 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: If you're a platform, you do. But if you're a platform, 295 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: you have to act like a platform. You can't act 296 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: like a publisher and then claim the benefit of the platform. 297 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: That's the way it should be revised. So the New 298 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: York Post doesn't have any leak recourse that would be 299 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 1: condigned at this time to to provide some litigation towards 300 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: what the social media companies are doing in terms of 301 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: blocking their stories. They don't have any recourse. I think 302 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: they might. I think they might. I think they might 303 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 1: if I were their lawyer, if they called me, and 304 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: I would say, yeah, bring a lawsuit. Say they're not 305 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: acting like a platform, and they are obliged to keep 306 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 1: your posts up and if they don't, they will lose 307 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: their status as a platform under two thirty. I think 308 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: they have some remedies. I think mostly it will be 309 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 1: a legislative remedies. Be interestant to see what happens because 310 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: the current polls suggest, obviously polls are not infallible that 311 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 1: in the next few months we may have a democratic president, 312 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: democratic Senate, democratic Council. They'll get to write the laws, 313 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 1: and it would be interesting to see if the left 314 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: rights laws that are protective of free speech, because today 315 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 1: the hard left, particularly the squad and people like Heyo 316 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: seeing others, are not particularly tolerative free speech. Free speech 317 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: for me, but not for thee and it's conservatives because 318 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 1: they're being censored by social media who are much more 319 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 1: sensitive to free speech right. So it'd be interesting to 320 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 1: see what if there is a new Congress, the new Congress, 321 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: the new president do about section to thirty and about 322 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 1: the social media in general. There has to be changed. Yes, 323 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: I agree with that, and Republicans, of course have always 324 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: been against regulation of everything, but in this instance, I 325 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: think Republicans have failed and regulating these companies because clearly 326 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: they've become too big and too powerful, and now they're 327 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: trying to change the course of an election. So there, 328 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 1: and I want to switch gears. But first, here's a 329 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 1: word from our sponsors. As we switch gears. Here, I 330 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 1: want to talk to you about the Supreme Court. So 331 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 1: we know we have a nominee, Amy Cooney Barrett for 332 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. And in your new book, Confirming Justice 333 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: or Injustice, you lay out a guide to picking um, 334 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 1: the late Ruth Bader Ginsburg's replacement on the Supreme Court. 335 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 1: What do you make of Judge Amy Coney Barrett's legal record? 336 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: Introduce you philosophy. Oh, it's beyond reproach. I mean, she 337 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: is one of the most highly qualified nominees ever to 338 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 1: be put before the Senate. She's brilliant, she's articulate, she 339 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: has a wonderful private and personal story. Everything about her 340 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: is positive from the point of view confirmation. Would I 341 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: have selected her? No, she's too conservative for my taste. 342 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: But I'm not the president. I didn't win the last 343 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: election President Trump did. My only concern is that Republicans 344 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: in the Senate are acting hypocritically because they would not 345 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: allow and equally qualified, maybe even more qualified nominee Merrick Garland, 346 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 1: who was nominated by President Obama back in two tausand 347 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 1: and six to even get a hearing in front of 348 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 1: the Senate. They wouldn't proceed because they said, particularly Lindsey Graham, 349 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: who's now chair and who's a friend of mine, who 350 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:06,360 Speaker 1: I know, i'mliked. But he said back then that if 351 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,880 Speaker 1: President Trump were to get an opening in the Supreme 352 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: Court within the year of the election, he would not 353 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: let it come to the floor of the Senate. And 354 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 1: he said, you can use my words against me. So 355 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: you know, the Democrats and now are using his words 356 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: against them, and he's saying no. There are two differences. 357 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 1: Number One, we controlled the Senate. We didn't control the 358 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: Senate back in two deaths at sixteen or at least 359 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: it was a different president in different control of the Senate. 360 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: Now it's both in the same hands. That strikes me 361 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: as simply an assertion of power, not a moral argument. 362 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: And second, he said the way the Democrats handled the 363 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:47,360 Speaker 1: nomination of Brett Kavanaugh shows the rules of change. There, 364 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: he has a point. The way the Democrats, particularly Kamela 365 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: Harricks and some of the others and find Time treated 366 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: Brett Kavanaugh was despicable, in beneath contin and a core 367 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: violation of due process, and I was strongly opposed to it. Again, 368 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: I wouldn't have picked Kavanaugh for the Supreme Court of 369 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: if somebody, some Democrat president asked me. But he was 370 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,360 Speaker 1: highly qualified. And the idea of bringing back things that 371 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: he was implausibly alleged to have done when he was 372 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: fifteen or sixteen years old was the height of kind 373 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: of McCarthy ism and and just despicable. And to even 374 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: have women who had probably never even met him making 375 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 1: some of these allegations through the Great Michael Ebanadi was 376 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: was beneath contempt. So I understand the change rules, but 377 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: my preference would be to have a rule that governs 378 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: all suit cases. And maybe my rule would be that 379 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: the president doesn't get to nominate after the conventions, say 380 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: conventions are over in mid August, from mid August to 381 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: early November. If there's a vacancy, that vacancy he stays 382 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 1: on whold. But that has to apply equally to both sides. 383 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,880 Speaker 1: Doesn't matter who the president is, what party he's from, 384 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: where she's from, and who's in control of the Senate. 385 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 1: So we need a simple standard, identical rule for old parties, 386 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: the shoe on the other foot test, as I call it. 387 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: But in politics, hypocrisy prevails over principle. And to that point, 388 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: you mentioned Republicans like Lindsey Graham with a hypocritical bad 389 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: way of what he said, but also Democrats said with 390 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: Judge Garland that you should be the president should have 391 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,719 Speaker 1: the opportunity to even nominate in his last year. Justice 392 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: Ginsburg said that she the president doesn't stop being president 393 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: for in an election year. So there's been all these 394 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: things the Democrats have said previously, and now there's change 395 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: in tune. So it seems like both uh can definitely 396 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: you can point the finger in both sides there. I 397 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: think that's right a little bit more at the Republicans 398 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: only because the America Only thing was eight months before 399 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: the election and Barrett h confirmation is just now two 400 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: and a half weeks before the election. So it's a 401 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: matter of degree. But look, there's enough hypocrisy to fill 402 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: both Houses of Congress and the White House with a 403 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: lot extra Hypocrisy is the engine that drives politics today. 404 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: Both sides are guilty of hypocrisy and putting hypocrisy over principle. 405 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: I agree with you fully there. Let me ask you 406 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: this question because, as you mentioned, the polls have suggested 407 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: that Joe Biden is going to win, and my argument 408 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 1: continue to be bos don't vote, people do. So that's 409 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: with that consideration in mind. Let's say that Joe Biden 410 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: happens to win the presidency and he hasn't told us 411 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: where he stands on court packing. Will happen if he 412 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: actually is elected? Will they packed? Here's my view. If 413 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: he's elected, First of all, you'd have to have democratic 414 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: control of both houses before you could have court packing. 415 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: But let's assume, in fact, I have an article that 416 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 1: I've just written about it. Let's assume that Democrats control 417 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: everything but the Spring Court um. Then there's gonna be 418 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: enormous pressure on Biden, and probably the Senate in the 419 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: House will pass a court packing plan. They will probably 420 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,919 Speaker 1: pass the statute saying the number of justices will go 421 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,239 Speaker 1: from nine to eleven, and we the Democrats, will get 422 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: to nominate the next two justices, and that will make 423 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: the Court basically evenly divided, with Chief Justice Roberts again 424 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: perhaps being the swing vote if they're eleven. If they're 425 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: eleven justices. So so a bill will come to Joe 426 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: Biden's desk if he's the president, having even passed by 427 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 1: the House and the Senate. And the question that I 428 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: don't think anybody knows the answer to, will Joe Biden 429 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: have the courage to veto that bill? We know where 430 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 1: his heart is. He doesn't support court packing. He's not 431 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: an advocate, he said himself, he not a fan. But 432 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 1: if you get the House and the Senate, and particularly 433 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: the left wing of the Democratic Party pushing hard for 434 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: court packing, will he be able to resist that and 435 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: will he allow his own principles to govern and veto 436 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: the bill. My prediction, yes, he will veto the bill. 437 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,400 Speaker 1: I don't think we'll see court packing because it would 438 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: just create an arms race. Democrats get in, they make 439 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 1: it eleven, Republicans, and then four years from now they win, 440 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: they make it thirteen and the Democrats win and it's fifteen. 441 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: You know, if you get to be the size of 442 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 1: the Venezuela Supreme Court, which is, you know, in the thirties. 443 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 1: So it would really destroy the credibility and integrity and 444 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: neutrality of the Supreme Court. So I would hope that 445 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: wiser heads would prevail and no matter what happens with 446 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: the current nomination, that we would not resort to it. 447 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 1: Franklin do own or Roosevelt tried to do back in 448 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: nineteen seven, and that is packed the Court that failed 449 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,680 Speaker 1: back then. I hope it will l again now. So 450 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: I have to politely push back on your argument that 451 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: his heart isn't with pack in the court, and I 452 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: said that only because he was an avid supporter of Well, 453 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: he's changed his position, I should say now in terms 454 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: of life, in terms of being to one who respects 455 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 1: the sanctity of life when it comes to abortion. His 456 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: philosophy on that has changed, as a number of his 457 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: other positions, which people might have considered him a very 458 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: moderate candidate U some years ago. And I think that 459 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 1: was one of the things that President Obama or then 460 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 1: Canada Obama liked about Joe Biden. But it seems to 461 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: be if there's a change, especially with our culture of 462 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: going as far left as possible, that we don't really 463 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: know what he may do, and we can't look at 464 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: a necessary absolutely right, I don't. We're not disagreeing. I 465 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: don't think you can predict what he's going to do. 466 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: I can tell you what I think is in his heart. 467 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 1: I've known Joe Biden, not well, but I've known him 468 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: probably so years. I met him first through Ted Kennedy, 469 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: who I was very close to. Ted Kennedy and I 470 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: were together a lot of human rights, on civil rights, 471 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 1: on civil liberties, on criminal justice reform. And I met 472 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: this young senator from Delaware back then, and I always 473 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: liked them. I'll never forget a story. I was in 474 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: the White House. This is a name dropping story, of course. 475 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 1: I was in the White House and I was in 476 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: the Oval Office with President Obama. We were talking about 477 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 1: the Rand deal and my phone rang, and the President 478 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: looked at me said, you shouldn't bring a phone when 479 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: you're speaking to the president. I said, you're absolutely right, 480 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: but my grandson is supposed to learn today whether he 481 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: got into Harvard College or not. He's client. He said, 482 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: all right, take a call. So I took the calling Graham, 483 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: my turning up my grandson got into Harvard where he 484 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 1: graduated from recently, and Joe Biden said, well, let me 485 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: congratulate him. He took my phone and turned on the 486 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 1: record and the video and he said, hey, Lyle, great work. 487 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: Uh you got ato Harvard. That's terrific. Now be smart 488 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 1: to go to the University of Delaware. It's a better school. 489 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,920 Speaker 1: I mean, he can be really, really nice guy and 490 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 1: he has a human touch. I'm not campaigning or telling 491 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: you who to vote for. I'm just telling you he's 492 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: a nice guy. Look, I'm no Donald Trump too, and 493 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: I haven't known him for as longer as well, and 494 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: he has a lot of very positive qualities. What he's done, 495 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: what President Trump has done in the Middle East in 496 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: foreign policy is something that I don't think any president 497 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: belief could happen. I know that every president since probably 498 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: Bush first has tried to bring about normalization between the 499 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: Sunni Arab countries and Israel, and they failed. And President 500 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: of President Trump has succeeded. And he succeeded in moving 501 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: the embassy, which should have been in the first place, 502 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: move from Televis to Jerusalem, and then recognizing that Israel 503 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: has to hold on to the goalon heights. These are 504 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: terrific accomplishments, and the president ought to be praised for them. 505 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: For me being a bipartisan, I'm a Democrat. I'm a 506 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: liberal Democrat, but I'm bipartisan when comes to issues. For me, 507 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: being bipartisan means you condemned the president voted for, as 508 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: I have President Obama, who I voted for twice for 509 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: the Iran Deal, which was a disaster, and you praise 510 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: the president you voted against, namely President Trump, but what 511 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: he's brought about in the Middle East. So I tried 512 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: to be as fair as I possibly can an object 513 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: of the neutral in assessing policies the presidents who I 514 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: voted for or against. Now, there was a lot of 515 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: criticism of the Obama administration's handling of the relations with Israel. 516 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: We know that, um they didn't. President Obama didn't have 517 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: such a great relationship. Are you not concerned that, considering 518 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: the fact that Joe Biden was in that administration as well, 519 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: and he's part to blame for not having such a 520 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: great relationship with Israel, that if he becomes president that 521 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: the saint can continue. I am concerned about it. I 522 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: do have I do know that Joe Biden's personal views 523 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: towards Israel are somewhat more positive. He has critical views 524 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: towards not and you who um, but generally positive views 525 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: towards Israel. Look, you never know what you're gonna get 526 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: when you vote for a president. You vote not on 527 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: one issue at least I don't. I vote on a 528 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: variety of issues Israel, and one of them a woman's 529 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: right to choose gay marriage, reasonable gun control, affordable health. 530 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: All of those are other issues. You know, it's interesting 531 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: because people ask me all the time, how could Jews 532 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: vote so overwhelmingly Democrats when the Republicans are better for Israel? 533 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 1: And they're right, Republicans are better generally for Israel. But Jews, 534 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: like African Americans and like Latino Americans, don't vote on 535 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: single issues. They're not all together. They're not, you know, homogeneous. 536 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: We are very different. And most of my Jewish friends 537 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: have nothing positive to say about Donald Trump. I have 538 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: positive things to say about him, some negative things to 539 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: say about him. The same thing is true about my 540 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: views of Biden and Obama. And you know, we live 541 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: in a world the complexity and nuance, and nobody should 542 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: expect every Jew or every African America, every let's you know, 543 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: to vote one way or the other and blocked step. 544 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: That's just not what democracy is about. Thank you for listening. 545 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: Tune in for part two of our conversation with Professor 546 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: Alan Dershowitz. If you're enjoying the show, please leave us 547 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 1: a review and rate us with five stars on Apple Podcast. 548 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: Thank you to our producer Stephen Calabria, researcher Aaron Kleigman, 549 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: and executive producers Debbie Myers and speaker New Gingrich, part 550 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: of the Gingridge three sixty Networks, part of the Gainers 551 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: Ree sixty Networks,