WEBVTT - The Nakba and the Deir Yassin Massacre

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to what could happen here. It's still Cherene

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm still joined with the one and only James Stout.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you for joining me, Thank you for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, anytime the listeners they get what they want, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>they demanded it, and here we.

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<v Speaker 2>Are delivery log onto the subreddit.

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<v Speaker 1>I was interested in having someone else receive the information

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<v Speaker 1>I had because it's really hard to do it with myself.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's also hard not to like sound like a

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<v Speaker 1>boored professor or something, because I just sound.

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<v Speaker 2>Like this something I have experienced with. Yeah, you like

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<v Speaker 2>a pro professor. But it's also very emotionally challenging to

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<v Speaker 2>just be like, here some terrible fucking things that have

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<v Speaker 2>happened again and exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, when you buy yourself, it's like it feels a

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<v Speaker 1>lot heavier for some reason. Uh, And so I'm glad

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<v Speaker 1>to have someone else on Thank You today. I wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about something that happened seventy five years ago

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<v Speaker 1>this month. So there's going to be some history here,

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<v Speaker 1>but I think it's really important history, So please stay

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<v Speaker 1>tuned if you want to learn some stuff. But seventy

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<v Speaker 1>five years ago this month, before Israel was officially established

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<v Speaker 1>the Dairya scene massacre happened. This massacre was part of

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<v Speaker 1>the Nekba, or the catastrophe, and it matters even seventy

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<v Speaker 1>five years later, and it should always serve as a

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<v Speaker 1>reminder of the atrocities and massacres that took place in

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<v Speaker 1>order for a country that was already there to be stolen, renamed, terrorized,

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<v Speaker 1>have people killed and forcibly removed from their homes, and

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<v Speaker 1>the indigenous people were expelled from their homes and the

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<v Speaker 1>ownership of their own land was granted someone else. And

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<v Speaker 1>I think reminding everybody of what happened to make that

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<v Speaker 1>happen is extremely important because we're not that far removed

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<v Speaker 1>from that. Brulu. It's not like we can say, like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>that was medieval times, like people were different. It's like, no,

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<v Speaker 1>that was like less than one hundred years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>Shut up.

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<v Speaker 1>The Nakba aka the catastrophe in Arabic, it refers to

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<v Speaker 1>the violent expulsion of approximately three quarters of all Palestinians

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<v Speaker 1>from their homes and homeland by Zionists militias in the

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<v Speaker 1>New Israeli Army during the State of Israel's establishment between

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen forty seven and nineteen forty eight. The Nekabo was

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<v Speaker 1>a deliberate and systematic act intended to establish a Jewish

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<v Speaker 1>majority state in Palestine. Amongst themselves, Zionist leaders used the

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<v Speaker 1>euphemism quote unquote transfer when discussing plans for what today

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<v Speaker 1>would be called ethnic cleansing. The roots of the Nakba

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<v Speaker 1>and the ongoing problems in Palestine and Israel today they

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<v Speaker 1>lie in the emergence of the political Zionism from the

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<v Speaker 1>late eighteen hundreds, when some European Jews, influenced by the

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<v Speaker 1>nationalism that was sweeping the continent, they decided that the

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<v Speaker 1>solution to anti Semitism in Europe and Russia was the

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<v Speaker 1>establis publishment of a state for Jews and Palestine. They

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<v Speaker 1>began immigrating to Palestine as colonizers, where they started depossessing

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<v Speaker 1>indigenous Muslim and Christian Palestinians. In November of nineteen forty seven,

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<v Speaker 1>following World War II and the Holocaust, the newly created

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<v Speaker 1>United Nations approved of a plan to divide Palestine into

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<v Speaker 1>Jewish and Arab states, against the will of the majority

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<v Speaker 1>indigenous Palestinian Arab population. Again, this was not their decision

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<v Speaker 1>or choice to make regardless the UN approved of a

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<v Speaker 1>plant divide Palestine into Jewish and Arab states against the

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<v Speaker 1>will of Palestinian people. It gave fifty six percent of

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<v Speaker 1>that land to the proposed Jewish state, despite the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that Jews only owned about seven percent of the private

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<v Speaker 1>land of Palestine and made up only thirty three percent

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<v Speaker 1>of the population, and a very large percentage of this

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<v Speaker 1>percentage of thirty three percent were recent immigrants from Europe.

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<v Speaker 1>So handing over more than half of someone else's land

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<v Speaker 1>truly does it make sense. I don't care what religious

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<v Speaker 1>text or citing, it was wrong at this point in

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<v Speaker 1>time to take that land. It was just wrong. The

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<v Speaker 1>Palestinian Arab state was to be created on just forty

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<v Speaker 1>two percent of Palestine, even though Muslim and Christian Palestinians

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<v Speaker 1>made up a large majority of the population and were

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<v Speaker 1>indigenous to all of the land. Jerusalem was to be

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<v Speaker 1>governed by a special international administration. Almost immediately after the

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<v Speaker 1>partition plan was passed. The expulsion of Palestinians by Zionists

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<v Speaker 1>militias began months before the arming of neighboring Arab states

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<v Speaker 1>began to be involved, so there was no other person

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<v Speaker 1>to say don't do this, or like there was no

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<v Speaker 1>one else to fight to hold them back. I guess,

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<v Speaker 1>is what I'm trying to say. And by the time

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<v Speaker 1>these Zionist militias and the new Israeli Army finished, the

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<v Speaker 1>new State of Israel covered seventy eight percent of Palestine.

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<v Speaker 1>So they didn't even follow the rules either. They just

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<v Speaker 1>kept on following up the land that wasn't even there,

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<v Speaker 1>speakin with with this violent Nekba that it's just it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's a terrible, horrific thing they did. There is a

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<v Speaker 1>film on Netflix called Farha. It's the first film that

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<v Speaker 1>depicts any kind of story about the Nekba, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>by Palestinian filmmaker. It's really powerful. I would recommend seeing

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<v Speaker 1>that if you want an example of what happened, because

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<v Speaker 1>it's all factual as far as like the terror that

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<v Speaker 1>they did, so I'd recommend that film. Give it five

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<v Speaker 1>stars for the haters, you know what I mean?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh guy, I can imagine. There were reviews just like yeah, death, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>That was the film that the Israeli government tried to

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<v Speaker 1>to ban, and they were a lot of Zionists were

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<v Speaker 1>commenting like terrible things about it and giving it one

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<v Speaker 1>star or whatever. They wanted Netflix to take it off Netflix,

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<v Speaker 1>but no, we fuck the haters. Help us out five stars.

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<v Speaker 1>Put it on the background of your TV.

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<v Speaker 2>It doesn't matter, just keep streaming on those we get Exactly, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>strike a blow against colonialism, but that's.

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<v Speaker 1>Just an example of how important and scared they are

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<v Speaker 1>of the truth because it's a movie. It's a fucking movie.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. The control of the narrative is so important in

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<v Speaker 2>these things, exactly. Yes, And even the way you refer

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<v Speaker 2>to it, right, not not calling it the knock, like

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<v Speaker 2>calling it a transfer, not a cleansing, exactly, calling it,

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<v Speaker 2>like not referring to it in the same terms as

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<v Speaker 2>we would do like the genocidal set of colonialism that

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<v Speaker 2>settled this country, or you know, the way that Britain

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<v Speaker 2>and France and Germany behaved in Africa, like trying to

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<v Speaker 2>not like specifically opposing calling it an apartheid state, right

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<v Speaker 2>when when that's what it is, is what it does. Like,

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<v Speaker 2>all of those things are so important, and they might

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<v Speaker 2>seem like petty battles, but they really control how we

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<v Speaker 2>see things. I think when you control language, you can

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<v Speaker 2>control how people perceive things.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think controlling the narrative is so parallel to

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<v Speaker 1>like controlling the history books, because that's what gets remembered

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<v Speaker 1>by the people that want to the narrative to have

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<v Speaker 1>a certain thing. Not all history books, obviously, but a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of the times the things that are considered facts

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<v Speaker 1>are biased. You know, I don't know if that makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Oh, you're only getting half of the things, right

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<v Speaker 2>or like, Yeah, I mean, as a historian, we are

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<v Speaker 2>all biased, and so we should declare our biases and

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<v Speaker 2>sort of go forward that way, rather than presenting our

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<v Speaker 2>biases as unbiased and neutral and then obviously creating a

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<v Speaker 2>biased thing, which is what we tend to get in

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<v Speaker 2>the US, especially when we look at this stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, No, totally. I love that. I Like, I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't bash historians, but I criticized them. But you're like,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a historian.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I will not jump to the defense of science

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<v Speaker 2>historians I've worked with. Like, there's a chapter in my

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<v Speaker 2>book about volunteers in the Spanish Civil War, and like

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<v Speaker 2>about thirty percent of volunteers were Jewish people, right, and

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<v Speaker 2>many of them had been like couldn't go back to

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<v Speaker 2>Like there are some of them who like fought in

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<v Speaker 2>the Spanish Civil War, were gorillas in the Second World War,

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<v Speaker 2>survived the Holocaust in some cases, and they were anti Zionists,

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<v Speaker 2>and so like they didn't have a place like the

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<v Speaker 2>you know, there wasn't a place for them as people

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<v Speaker 2>who had had stuck to their very decent principles of

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<v Speaker 2>like you shouldn't impose shit on force for people who

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<v Speaker 2>don't want it, and we're opposed to fascism or opposed

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<v Speaker 2>to colonialism. There wasn't a place for them in that

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<v Speaker 2>sort of post World War two Jewish movement, that Zionist movement.

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<v Speaker 2>There were in other places, but yeah, it's very sad

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<v Speaker 2>that their stories aren't like like if a friend of

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<v Speaker 2>mine was the person who first wrote articles about them,

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<v Speaker 2>but like their memory is completely erased, right, or at

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<v Speaker 2>least it's not present, And then they should be people that,

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<v Speaker 2>like any reconall person would be very proud of, right

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<v Speaker 2>they were willing to die for someone else's battle, and

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<v Speaker 2>then yeah, they were kind of that. They're they stuck

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<v Speaker 2>to the same principles the whole way through it, and

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<v Speaker 2>the world kind of moved around them.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I mean, I think as time goes on,

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<v Speaker 1>those things won't even be existing in people's reality, you

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<v Speaker 1>know what I mean, Like if no one remembers that

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<v Speaker 1>that happened, if no one is part of what that happened,

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<v Speaker 1>like it's just going to go away. It's going to disappear.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's why it's so important to do history and

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<v Speaker 2>to do like to use different sources, right, and to

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<v Speaker 2>do history from a people's perspective, not from a perspective

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<v Speaker 2>of people who were in power. Exactly, history from below,

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<v Speaker 2>that's what we call it. Say that sounds one more

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<v Speaker 2>time if people call it a history from below, but

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<v Speaker 2>like and to look at other sources, right, like without

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<v Speaker 2>like riding my hobby horse too much. Like I was

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<v Speaker 2>primarily a historian of sport and anti fascism, and like

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<v Speaker 2>specifically sport. I got a ton of pushback on when

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<v Speaker 2>I started because it's not important, right, and it's not

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it's not like fucking I don't have any

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<v Speaker 2>charts or whatever, and like, it's actually very important to

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<v Speaker 2>where people were able to express who they were and

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<v Speaker 2>who was on the team and who was not on

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<v Speaker 2>their team, right, And that's where you find these people

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<v Speaker 2>who are very impactful lots of other areas. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think like if I was a younger person and I

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<v Speaker 2>was trying to find my way from my identity and

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<v Speaker 2>be like, hey, the Sionism seems wrong, like in the

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<v Speaker 2>same way that other things seem wrong. To have those

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<v Speaker 2>people to be like, yeah, these people also saw that right,

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<v Speaker 2>Like they didn't want a boot on anyone's neck, not

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<v Speaker 2>just not, I didn't want it to be their boot

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<v Speaker 2>on someone else's neck. And that was fine, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>they like having seen the Holocaust, having seen what happened

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<v Speaker 2>in to Spain, the like, now that this shit is wrong,

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<v Speaker 2>it's still wrong, doesn't matter if we're doing it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, their humanity prevailed.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And it's important for people like to have those

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<v Speaker 2>those stories to be like, Okay, well I'm not fucking

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<v Speaker 2>crazy or it's not that I just don't understand what

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<v Speaker 2>it was like back then, because a lot of people

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<v Speaker 2>could see it and were like, no, we shouldn't be

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<v Speaker 2>doing this.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, well, historian James, thank.

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<v Speaker 2>You for joining me today.

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<v Speaker 1>Sorry, No, why are you apologizing? I love that shit?

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<v Speaker 1>Fuck No, I love it history from below that you said, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>just quite no theme now, I think it's a good

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<v Speaker 1>thing to abide by. So I'm glad that there's a

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<v Speaker 1>little catchy phrase for.

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<v Speaker 2>It, Stewart Hale and things like that. Yeah, we'll do

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<v Speaker 2>another episode on this one day.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes please. So, as we mentioned before, Israel stole about

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<v Speaker 1>seventy eight percent of Palestine and then this left twenty

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<v Speaker 1>two percent, and the twenty two percent was compromised of

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<v Speaker 1>the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza, and these regions

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<v Speaker 1>fell under the control of Jordan Egypt, respectively. In the

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty seven war, the Israeli military occupied the West Bank,

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<v Speaker 1>East Jerusalem and Gaza, and Israel began colonizing them shortly afterwards.

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<v Speaker 1>And just to give you some numbers, I think they're

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<v Speaker 1>important sometimes just to get the context of the scale

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<v Speaker 1>of something. But the Nekaba, by the numbers, is what

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<v Speaker 1>I'm about to continue. Between seven hundred and fifty thousand

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<v Speaker 1>and one million Palestinians were expelled from their homeland and

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<v Speaker 1>they were made refugees by Zionist militias, amounting to approximately

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<v Speaker 1>seventy five percent of all Palestinians. Between two hundred and

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<v Speaker 1>fifty thousand and three hundred fifty thousand Palestinians were driven

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<v Speaker 1>out from their homes by Zionist militias Between the passage

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<v Speaker 1>of the UN Partition Plan on November twenty ninth of

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen forty seven and the establishment of Israel on May

0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:37.520
<v Speaker 1>fifteenth of nineteen forty eight. Prior to the outbreak of

0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:41.240
<v Speaker 1>war with the neighboring Arab States, several dozen massacres of

0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:44.880
<v Speaker 1>Palestinians were carried out by Zionist militias and the Israeli Army,

0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:48.160
<v Speaker 1>which played a critical role in prompting the flight of

0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:52.040
<v Speaker 1>many Palestinians from their homes. More than one hundred Palestinians,

0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:56.080
<v Speaker 1>including dozens of children, women, and elderly people, were massacred

0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:59.640
<v Speaker 1>in the Palestinian town of Dariusne near Jerusalem on April

0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:03.240
<v Speaker 1>nineth of nineteen forty eight by Zionist militia. This is

0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:05.439
<v Speaker 1>the main massacre I want to talk about today because

0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.720
<v Speaker 1>it's been exactly seventy five years on April ninth. But

0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:11.840
<v Speaker 1>it was one of many massacres, and it was the

0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:14.640
<v Speaker 1>one that is cited as igniting a lot of the

0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:18.360
<v Speaker 1>Codomino effect. The massacre at Daria scene was one of

0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:21.960
<v Speaker 1>the worst atrocities committed during the Nakba and a pivotal

0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:25.720
<v Speaker 1>moment in Israel's establishment as a Jewish majority state, and

0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.600
<v Speaker 1>again it triggered the flight of Palestinians from their homes

0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:33.760
<v Speaker 1>in Jerusalem and beyond. The Dariacene massacre is commemorated annually

0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:37.600
<v Speaker 1>by Palestinians around the world. Approximately one hundred and fifty

0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:41.840
<v Speaker 1>thousand Palestinians remained inside what became Israel's borders in nineteen

0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:46.280
<v Speaker 1>forty eight, a quarter of them internally displaced. These Palestinians,

0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.640
<v Speaker 1>who are sometimes referred to as Israeli Arabs, were granted

0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:53.600
<v Speaker 1>Israeli citizenship, but stripped of most of their land and

0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:57.960
<v Speaker 1>governed by violent, undemocratic military rule as of nineteen sixty six.

0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.439
<v Speaker 1>As of twenty twenty three, there are more than two

0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:05.800
<v Speaker 1>million Palestinians with Israeli citizenship, comprising more than twenty percent

0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:08.640
<v Speaker 1>of Israel's population, and they are forced to live as

0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:12.480
<v Speaker 1>second class citizens in their own homeland, subject to dozens

0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:15.440
<v Speaker 1>of laws that discriminate against them in almost every aspect

0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:20.040
<v Speaker 1>of life because they're not Jewish. Let's take our first

0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:22.080
<v Speaker 1>break here and I'll come back and tell you more

0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:35.960
<v Speaker 1>terrible things. So here we okay, we're back. I'm going

0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:37.720
<v Speaker 1>to finish up a little bit more of these numbers

0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:40.520
<v Speaker 1>and then I'm going to talk about Darius. More than

0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:44.240
<v Speaker 1>four hundred Palestinian cities and towns were systematically destroyed by

0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:47.680
<v Speaker 1>Zionist militias and the New Israeli Army, or they are

0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:50.840
<v Speaker 1>repopulated with Jews. Between nineteen forty eight and nineteen fifty,

0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:56.240
<v Speaker 1>most Palestinian communities, including homes, businesses, houses of worship, vib

0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.520
<v Speaker 1>urban centers, they were destroyed to prevent the return of

0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:02.760
<v Speaker 1>their palace Stinian owners who are now refugees outside of

0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:07.240
<v Speaker 1>Israel's borders, or they were internally displaced inside them. Today,

0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:11.600
<v Speaker 1>there are more than seven point two million Palestinian refugees,

0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:16.040
<v Speaker 1>including Neckbus survivors and their descendants. They're located mostly in

0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:19.640
<v Speaker 1>the occupied West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza and neighboring

0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:23.320
<v Speaker 1>Arab countries such as Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria, and they're

0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:27.440
<v Speaker 1>denied their internationally recognized legal right to return to their homeland.

0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:30.280
<v Speaker 1>This is the last big number I want to say,

0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:32.080
<v Speaker 1>just because I think it's it's so big I had

0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:36.640
<v Speaker 1>to say it. Approximately four million, two hundred and forty

0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:40.840
<v Speaker 1>four thousand, seven hundred and seventy six acres of Palestinian

0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:44.000
<v Speaker 1>land was stolen by Israel during and immediately after the

0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.920
<v Speaker 1>establishment of the state in nineteen forty eight, millions of acres,

0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:52.080
<v Speaker 1>Like it's not just a tiny little place that no

0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:55.400
<v Speaker 1>one was in before, like noe, millions of acres of

0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.240
<v Speaker 1>land were forcibly stolen.

0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:02.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so yeah, and all of them, like the land

0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:04.920
<v Speaker 2>that people have had for generations that they're farm Like

0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:08.720
<v Speaker 2>this is like it's not the oldest settlement on earth,

0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:10.960
<v Speaker 2>but people have been living here for tens of thousands

0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:11.800
<v Speaker 2>of years.

0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:15.080
<v Speaker 1>I said, Aluxey Yesterday was built in ten thirty five.

0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:18.680
<v Speaker 2>Like yeah, this shit is very old. And like sometimes

0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:22.440
<v Speaker 2>the same people or people's sort of family. It's not

0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:25.680
<v Speaker 2>just a loss of property, so lots of everything that's

0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:29.440
<v Speaker 2>sacred and like the Aluxa Mosque or these things that

0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:31.680
<v Speaker 2>are sacred and important to you, you know.

0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.880
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, and so more it's what you said earlier.

0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:38.840
<v Speaker 1>It's like we have to remember these things because otherwise

0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.800
<v Speaker 1>they'll get forgotten the in whoever's recording the history, you.

0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:43.760
<v Speaker 2>Know what I mean, Like it's yeah, I mean they

0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:46.200
<v Speaker 2>have been here. Right when we look at how America

0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:50.040
<v Speaker 2>sees itself, it sees the land that it expanded into.

0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:54.120
<v Speaker 2>It's like Terrannullius, like like empty land that was unoccupied,

0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:57.520
<v Speaker 2>which it was not. There was not a wilderness to tame.

0:16:57.680 --> 0:16:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Like there were people living here and they were living

0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.440
<v Speaker 2>very happily, and they were living they weren't like I

0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:05.880
<v Speaker 2>don't want to do the whole like like in commune

0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:08.199
<v Speaker 2>with nature thing, but like this wasn't a wild and

0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:11.520
<v Speaker 2>savage place, right. There were people existing here and taking

0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:13.439
<v Speaker 2>from the land and living on the land, and like

0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:17.119
<v Speaker 2>we that just doesn't get fucking like Ruth Bader Ginsburg

0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:20.159
<v Speaker 2>was citing the doctrine of discovery, you know, like you

0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.480
<v Speaker 2>all the libs love Ruth Bader Ginswick, but like it's

0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:28.720
<v Speaker 2>so subsumed into what America is that Like like Obama

0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:30.639
<v Speaker 2>did a fucking tweet like this nation was built on

0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:35.520
<v Speaker 2>peaceful protest. It was built fucking genocide, Like fuck off, yeah,

0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:39.280
<v Speaker 2>but we've allowed that to just go completely forgotten, right,

0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:42.920
<v Speaker 2>Like you don't go to school in California and be like, oh,

0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.400
<v Speaker 2>there is a fucking unit they just changed. Actually there

0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:48.800
<v Speaker 2>was a Unipero Hessea High School and like this is

0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:53.159
<v Speaker 2>a person who did genocide. Like we wouldn't have a

0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:56.800
<v Speaker 2>fucking Gerbels High School in Germany, you know, and then

0:17:57.080 --> 0:18:00.159
<v Speaker 2>Britain does a shit too. I'm not not like I'm

0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:02.640
<v Speaker 2>in a glasshouse, so I didn't say that, but yeah,

0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:06.280
<v Speaker 2>this wasn't an empty place, and.

0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:09.119
<v Speaker 1>It's really important to remember that because that is so

0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:12.720
<v Speaker 1>often the talking point of fucking stupid people that try

0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:16.160
<v Speaker 1>to defend what Israel is doing. Let's go to now

0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.439
<v Speaker 1>the main massacre or topic I want to talk about today,

0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:22.840
<v Speaker 1>which happened on April ninth in nineteen forty eight, just

0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.840
<v Speaker 1>weeks before the creation of the State of Israel, when

0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:29.720
<v Speaker 1>members of the Urguon and Stern Gang Zionist militias attacked

0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.840
<v Speaker 1>the village of Dryasin and they killed at least one

0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:38.000
<v Speaker 1>hundred and seven Palestinians. Zionist militias tore through Palestinian villages,

0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:42.440
<v Speaker 1>massacring villagers and expelling those who remained alive, to clear

0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:44.720
<v Speaker 1>the way for the creation of the state of Israel,

0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:47.960
<v Speaker 1>and this was one of the many massacres that happened

0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:52.160
<v Speaker 1>during the Nekba, where again an estimated fifteen thousand Palestinians

0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:55.080
<v Speaker 1>were killed and some seven hundred and fifty thousand fled

0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:59.960
<v Speaker 1>their homes as refugees. Ignited a very terrifying domino effect.

0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:03.840
<v Speaker 1>This year, the UN will host its first ever high

0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:07.520
<v Speaker 1>level event to commemorate this forced displacement that resulted in

0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:09.800
<v Speaker 1>the establishment of the state of Israel in May and

0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:11.880
<v Speaker 1>nineteen forty eight. So this is the first time ever

0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:14.640
<v Speaker 1>that the U one has recognized that the Nekbu even happened,

0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:19.040
<v Speaker 1>or like is it happened enough to mention it and

0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:23.280
<v Speaker 1>commemorate it. But Palestinians have never ceased to commemorate the

0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:25.840
<v Speaker 1>loss of each village that was once part of their homeland.

0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:28.880
<v Speaker 1>Among them was Darya Sine, and it was a village

0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:32.679
<v Speaker 1>perched on a hill west of Jerusalem. And this massacre

0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:36.119
<v Speaker 1>has become emblematic of the suffering that Israel would inflict

0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:39.680
<v Speaker 1>on the Palestinians. Many of the people slaughtered, from those

0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:42.639
<v Speaker 1>who were tied to trees and burned to death to

0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:46.320
<v Speaker 1>those lined up against a wall and shot by submachine guns.

0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:50.000
<v Speaker 1>Many of these people were women, children, and the elderly,

0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:53.640
<v Speaker 1>and Fudha does a really good job of showing this

0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:57.200
<v Speaker 1>lack of discrimination of life in general in that movie

0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:01.560
<v Speaker 1>that I mentioned earlier. As the new of these atrocities spread,

0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:05.200
<v Speaker 1>thousands fled their villages in fear so again. On April

0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:08.240
<v Speaker 1>ninth and nineteen forty eight, the Israeli militia struck theiry,

0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.800
<v Speaker 1>A scene where about seven hundred Palestinians lived. According to

0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:18.399
<v Speaker 1>the Israeli narrative, operation Nashon and Ahhson apologies if I

0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:21.919
<v Speaker 1>mispronounce that, but this operation aimed to break through the

0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:26.159
<v Speaker 1>blockaded road to Jerusalem, and the fighters encountered stiff resistance

0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:29.880
<v Speaker 1>from the villagers that forced them to advance slowly from

0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:33.840
<v Speaker 1>house to house. It's kind of silly and strange how

0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:37.240
<v Speaker 1>the same excuse is being used a century later to

0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:41.120
<v Speaker 1>justify acts of terror. They're saying that villagers resisted them

0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:47.320
<v Speaker 1>and that's why they butchered them. It's yeah, it's pathetic.

0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:49.200
<v Speaker 1>It's stupid and pathetic.

0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:52.320
<v Speaker 2>And like, yeah, for having the I don't know, temerity

0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:56.040
<v Speaker 2>to be like no, you can't take my home. Yeah,

0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:58.560
<v Speaker 2>they carried out a collective punishment on Yeah.

0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:01.400
<v Speaker 1>And that's the Israeli narrative. That's what their history books say,

0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:04.280
<v Speaker 1>is that this was the aim of this operation. They

0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:07.199
<v Speaker 1>were simply encountering the stiff resistance and they had to

0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:09.359
<v Speaker 1>go from house to house like that. It's just a

0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:13.800
<v Speaker 1>fucked up narrative, but Palestinians and some Israeli historians say

0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:17.159
<v Speaker 1>that the villagers had signed a non aggression agreement with

0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:21.040
<v Speaker 1>the Haganah, which was the pre Israeli state Zionist army.

0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:25.119
<v Speaker 1>They were nevertheless murdered in cold blood and buried in

0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:29.720
<v Speaker 1>mass graves. According to a nineteen forty eight report filed

0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:32.879
<v Speaker 1>by the British delegation to the UN, the killing of

0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:36.480
<v Speaker 1>quote some two hundred and fifty Arabs men, women and

0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:40.960
<v Speaker 1>children took place in circumstances of great savagery. Women and

0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:45.240
<v Speaker 1>children were stripped, lined up, photographed, and then slaughtered by

0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:48.800
<v Speaker 1>automatic firing. Those who were taken prisoners were treated with

0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:53.280
<v Speaker 1>degrading brutality. This is from a nineteen forty eight report

0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:54.920
<v Speaker 1>filed by the British delegation.

0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:58.360
<v Speaker 2>Like it's in the record, wouldn't they both like the

0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:02.440
<v Speaker 2>stern going and the the whatever the military was called

0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:04.879
<v Speaker 2>the beginning was in It's like I said, l I

0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:08.920
<v Speaker 2>think were like they hadn't really done any military operations before,

0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:11.240
<v Speaker 2>right that they'd just been they just like bomb like

0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:14.080
<v Speaker 2>they did car bombs and shit to this, like the

0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:19.000
<v Speaker 2>British had already like like that. They were like they

0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:22.720
<v Speaker 2>were killing British people and I guess Arab people in

0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:25.600
<v Speaker 2>Palestine before this, yes.

0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:33.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean the escalation in violence was like pretty severe, right,

0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:35.439
<v Speaker 1>but I think they would have gone there eventually, you know,

0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:36.760
<v Speaker 1>they's kind of hit forward.

0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:39.280
<v Speaker 2>I think they'd already like established an intention or like

0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:42.000
<v Speaker 2>a willingness to kill just about anyone who got in

0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:44.280
<v Speaker 2>their way, right, and they wanted to show that they

0:22:44.400 --> 0:22:49.320
<v Speaker 2>were like unlike the like I guess the labor aligned

0:22:49.600 --> 0:22:52.040
<v Speaker 2>Zionist movement, that they were like more hardcore than that,

0:22:52.119 --> 0:22:54.800
<v Speaker 2>and they exactly like that's where they made a spectacle

0:22:54.840 --> 0:22:55.720
<v Speaker 2>of violence like.

0:22:55.720 --> 0:23:02.640
<v Speaker 1>This, they're establishing their their power and dominant. Israeli historian

0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:08.280
<v Speaker 1>Benny Morris said that the militia's quote ransacked unscrupulously, stole

0:23:08.359 --> 0:23:11.440
<v Speaker 1>money and jewels from the survivors, and burned the bodies.

0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:16.000
<v Speaker 1>Even dismemberment and rape occurred. I mean, there's nothing to

0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:19.760
<v Speaker 1>say to that. The number of dead is disputed, but

0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:22.760
<v Speaker 1>it ranges from one hundred to two hundred and fifty.

0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:26.920
<v Speaker 1>A representative of the Red Cross who entered Darya scene

0:23:26.920 --> 0:23:30.480
<v Speaker 1>on April eleventh. Two days later, they reported seeing the

0:23:30.520 --> 0:23:34.159
<v Speaker 1>bodies of some one hundred and fifty people heaped haphazardly

0:23:34.240 --> 0:23:37.520
<v Speaker 1>in a cave, while around fifty were amassed in a

0:23:37.560 --> 0:23:42.000
<v Speaker 1>separate location. Prominent Jewish intellectual Martin Buber wrote at the

0:23:42.040 --> 0:23:46.000
<v Speaker 1>time that such events had been quote unquote infamous. In

0:23:46.119 --> 0:23:50.280
<v Speaker 1>Darya scene, hundreds of innocent men, women and children were massacred.

0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:53.960
<v Speaker 1>He said, let the village remain uninhabited for the time being.

0:23:54.200 --> 0:23:57.320
<v Speaker 1>Let its desolation be a terrible and tragic symbol of

0:23:57.359 --> 0:24:00.560
<v Speaker 1>war and a warning to our people that no practical

0:24:00.600 --> 0:24:04.960
<v Speaker 1>military needs may ever justify such acts of murder. He

0:24:05.000 --> 0:24:08.960
<v Speaker 1>also noted that Darya scene had a profound demographic and

0:24:09.000 --> 0:24:12.119
<v Speaker 1>political effect, and he's referring to the fact that the

0:24:12.200 --> 0:24:15.119
<v Speaker 1>news of his massacre spread and it prompted hundreds of

0:24:15.119 --> 0:24:21.760
<v Speaker 1>Palestinians to flee their homes. Four nearby villages were next Ailunia, Cyrus,

0:24:22.080 --> 0:24:27.200
<v Speaker 1>bit Saruk and Bidu. Darya scene was no mistake, according

0:24:27.200 --> 0:24:31.840
<v Speaker 1>to Israeli historian Ilan Pape Iline Pape has been called

0:24:31.880 --> 0:24:37.480
<v Speaker 1>a Israeli quote unquote revisionist historian because he tells the truth,

0:24:37.640 --> 0:24:39.960
<v Speaker 1>the actual truth of what happened in their history.

0:24:40.160 --> 0:24:43.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the concept of revision's history is nonsense, like it

0:24:43.560 --> 0:24:46.199
<v Speaker 2>suggests that there is a settled history at some point,

0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:49.080
<v Speaker 2>which does not right, Like we're always looking at sources again,

0:24:49.080 --> 0:24:52.320
<v Speaker 2>but was looking for new sources, different perspectives. It's not

0:24:52.359 --> 0:24:54.560
<v Speaker 2>like there is like this monolith of history and then

0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:58.320
<v Speaker 2>some meddling buss had comes and chops it down. It's

0:24:58.359 --> 0:25:02.399
<v Speaker 2>fundamentally like misunderstanding how history is done. Yess why you

0:25:02.400 --> 0:25:07.280
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't pay attention to Malcolm Gladwell for that and many

0:25:07.280 --> 0:25:10.240
<v Speaker 2>other reasons. But yeah, it's a ridiculous ideas. He's not

0:25:10.359 --> 0:25:12.520
<v Speaker 2>like it's not like everyone was like, oh yeah, this

0:25:12.640 --> 0:25:14.679
<v Speaker 2>wasn't a bad thing, and then he came along and

0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:19.120
<v Speaker 2>like injected some kind of political animist in his history.

0:25:19.440 --> 0:25:21.840
<v Speaker 2>He came along and looked at maybe news sources, maybe

0:25:21.840 --> 0:25:23.240
<v Speaker 2>the same sources of people how I don't know. And

0:25:23.240 --> 0:25:26.040
<v Speaker 2>it was like, now, you guys, have you got this wrong?

0:25:26.400 --> 0:25:29.080
<v Speaker 2>You called this wrong. But that's what historians do. Like

0:25:29.480 --> 0:25:32.240
<v Speaker 2>you can't fucking write your PhD without disagreeing with someone

0:25:32.240 --> 0:25:34.119
<v Speaker 2>and doing some new history. Like that's what takes you

0:25:34.160 --> 0:25:36.840
<v Speaker 2>from a master's to a doctorate. And like you're supposed

0:25:36.840 --> 0:25:38.520
<v Speaker 2>to do three articles in a book to get tenure.

0:25:38.640 --> 0:25:41.520
<v Speaker 2>Like your articles can't just be like, yeah, we pretty

0:25:41.600 --> 0:25:43.600
<v Speaker 2>much called this one right the first time. You know,

0:25:43.760 --> 0:25:47.280
<v Speaker 2>like the process of doing history is to revise and

0:25:47.320 --> 0:25:49.439
<v Speaker 2>hope to better understand things from different perspectives.

0:25:49.960 --> 0:25:52.520
<v Speaker 1>Totally. I like that that's the point of history is

0:25:52.560 --> 0:25:55.280
<v Speaker 1>to revise, because you're right, And I just think it's

0:25:55.400 --> 0:25:58.439
<v Speaker 1>it's so discrediting of his work to call him a

0:25:58.600 --> 0:26:02.880
<v Speaker 1>visionist historian. Yeah, it's condescending, you know. And as someone

0:26:02.920 --> 0:26:04.480
<v Speaker 1>that interviewed him called him this.

0:26:05.840 --> 0:26:08.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean hopefully he gave them both barrels because

0:26:08.040 --> 0:26:11.119
<v Speaker 2>it's kind of a ridiculous. Yay, it shows that they

0:26:11.119 --> 0:26:14.000
<v Speaker 2>fundamentally unqualified to be discussing the topic.

0:26:14.080 --> 0:26:18.159
<v Speaker 1>I guess, Yeah, I want to talk about what he said,

0:26:18.280 --> 0:26:20.879
<v Speaker 1>but I realized that I didn't take the last break,

0:26:20.920 --> 0:26:24.000
<v Speaker 1>and I want to right now, and that is my choice.

0:26:24.320 --> 0:26:27.200
<v Speaker 2>So OAT, proud of you, thank you.

0:26:37.280 --> 0:26:40.960
<v Speaker 1>And we're back. We were talking about Elan Pape, a

0:26:41.000 --> 0:26:44.399
<v Speaker 1>revisionis quote unquote historian, but not really. You know, he

0:26:44.560 --> 0:26:47.240
<v Speaker 1>was called that because he was talking about Israel the

0:26:47.240 --> 0:26:49.320
<v Speaker 1>way it was it should be talked about with actual

0:26:49.680 --> 0:26:54.919
<v Speaker 1>historical facts. In one of his writings, Pape wrote depopulating

0:26:54.960 --> 0:26:58.840
<v Speaker 1>Palestine was not a consequential war event, but a carefully

0:26:58.880 --> 0:27:03.679
<v Speaker 1>planned strategy otherwise known as Plan Dalette, which was authorized

0:27:03.720 --> 0:27:07.040
<v Speaker 1>by the Israeli leader Ben Gurion in March of nineteen

0:27:07.119 --> 0:27:11.320
<v Speaker 1>forty eight. Operation Nashan was in fact the first step

0:27:11.520 --> 0:27:15.440
<v Speaker 1>in the plan, and as I said, the massacre unleashed

0:27:15.560 --> 0:27:18.520
<v Speaker 1>a cycle of violence and counter violence that has been

0:27:18.560 --> 0:27:23.200
<v Speaker 1>the pattern ever since this happened. Jewish forces have regarded

0:27:23.240 --> 0:27:26.679
<v Speaker 1>any Palestinian village as an enemy state or a military base,

0:27:27.080 --> 0:27:30.200
<v Speaker 1>and this has paved the way for this blurred distinction

0:27:30.440 --> 0:27:34.800
<v Speaker 1>between massacring civilians and killing combatants. According to the historian,

0:27:35.680 --> 0:27:39.600
<v Speaker 1>So what does all of this say about Israel's vision today?

0:27:39.880 --> 0:27:41.600
<v Speaker 1>This is why I want to talk about this is

0:27:41.640 --> 0:27:45.080
<v Speaker 1>because this started this whole cycle of violence that we

0:27:45.119 --> 0:27:50.000
<v Speaker 1>still see perpetuated today. And it's why Palestinians refuse to

0:27:50.040 --> 0:27:52.640
<v Speaker 1>forget it and forget what happened, and they'll always talk

0:27:52.640 --> 0:27:55.720
<v Speaker 1>about Palestine because they don't want to be erased from

0:27:55.760 --> 0:28:00.560
<v Speaker 1>history books. Dariasne has become a powerful symbol of Palaestinian

0:28:00.600 --> 0:28:04.680
<v Speaker 1>dispossession as well as a historical fact Israel must confront

0:28:04.920 --> 0:28:09.119
<v Speaker 1>when retelling its national narrative. According to Pepe given that

0:28:09.280 --> 0:28:13.040
<v Speaker 1>terrorism is a mode of behavior that Israeli's attribute solely

0:28:13.080 --> 0:28:16.119
<v Speaker 1>to the Palestinian resistance movement, it could not be a

0:28:16.160 --> 0:28:19.919
<v Speaker 1>part of any analysis or description of chapters in Israel's past.

0:28:20.520 --> 0:28:23.000
<v Speaker 1>One way out of this conundrum, he says, was to

0:28:23.040 --> 0:28:27.359
<v Speaker 1>accredit a particular political group, preferably an extremist one with

0:28:27.440 --> 0:28:32.160
<v Speaker 1>the same attributes of the enemy, thus exonerating mainstream national behavior.

0:28:32.960 --> 0:28:36.280
<v Speaker 1>Israeli historians as well as Israeli society, they've only been

0:28:36.280 --> 0:28:38.600
<v Speaker 1>able to admit to the massacre and Daria scene by

0:28:38.600 --> 0:28:42.240
<v Speaker 1>attributing it to the right wing group Irgun, but have

0:28:42.360 --> 0:28:45.600
<v Speaker 1>covered up or denied the other massacres, notably the one

0:28:45.640 --> 0:28:48.880
<v Speaker 1>in Tantura in nineteen forty eight. This was carried out

0:28:48.960 --> 0:28:51.920
<v Speaker 1>by the Huganah, the main Jewish militia from which the

0:28:51.960 --> 0:28:56.000
<v Speaker 1>current day Israeli military has evolved from. And despite this

0:28:56.200 --> 0:28:59.960
<v Speaker 1>shift of blame, leading human rights organizations like Human Rights

0:29:00.160 --> 0:29:03.760
<v Speaker 1>Watch and the State International have labeled Israel itself in

0:29:03.800 --> 0:29:04.640
<v Speaker 1>a parked tyde state.

0:29:05.320 --> 0:29:07.400
<v Speaker 2>I've just seen the worst ever op ed in the

0:29:07.680 --> 0:29:11.600
<v Speaker 2>Jerusalem Post about now what tell me it's about this,

0:29:12.440 --> 0:29:15.840
<v Speaker 2>But it's about like the knuckbar, like it contains like

0:29:16.240 --> 0:29:18.160
<v Speaker 2>this kind of narrative that like, oh well, the knuckbo

0:29:18.320 --> 0:29:22.920
<v Speaker 2>was coined by by like historians to like explain the

0:29:22.920 --> 0:29:26.719
<v Speaker 2>failure of the Palestinians to defend themselves, which is like

0:29:27.000 --> 0:29:32.000
<v Speaker 2>a what does that fucking matter? And be like what

0:29:32.720 --> 0:29:35.840
<v Speaker 2>are you saying? Like what that contains within it the

0:29:35.880 --> 0:29:37.920
<v Speaker 2>nonation that they would have to defend themselves from someone

0:29:37.960 --> 0:29:43.160
<v Speaker 2>who was that how And then like like going back

0:29:43.160 --> 0:29:45.040
<v Speaker 2>and forth on the number of people killed, like which

0:29:45.160 --> 0:29:47.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, the low estimates are as low as like

0:29:47.120 --> 0:29:49.360
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and seven, highest wins in the two hundred

0:29:49.360 --> 0:29:53.600
<v Speaker 2>and fifties based on claims that the militias themselves made right.

0:29:53.760 --> 0:29:57.600
<v Speaker 2>So like again, what it is it cool to kill

0:29:57.720 --> 0:29:59.960
<v Speaker 2>like one hundred people but two hundred and fifty people?

0:30:00.120 --> 0:30:03.080
<v Speaker 2>Was like, you know, we should step in there, and

0:30:03.600 --> 0:30:08.640
<v Speaker 2>just like I was just checking the author's affiliation because

0:30:08.640 --> 0:30:13.160
<v Speaker 2>that's always fun, and he's a research for the Menachen

0:30:13.240 --> 0:30:16.520
<v Speaker 2>Beguine Heritage Center. I may have pronounced that incorrectly, but

0:30:16.720 --> 0:30:22.000
<v Speaker 2>when the organization you work for is memorializing heritage of

0:30:22.040 --> 0:30:25.320
<v Speaker 2>one of the dudes who led the massacre, you might

0:30:25.440 --> 0:30:29.480
<v Speaker 2>want to like to step aside from I mean or

0:30:29.520 --> 0:30:32.920
<v Speaker 2>not right, but just shut up, just dive the fuck in.

0:30:33.000 --> 0:30:36.280
<v Speaker 2>But like you are flying your flag as a fairly part.

0:30:36.320 --> 0:30:39.880
<v Speaker 2>It's like I said, right, all historians are biased. But yes,

0:30:39.920 --> 0:30:42.440
<v Speaker 2>when like you know, if if I work at the

0:30:42.480 --> 0:30:46.160
<v Speaker 2>Colonel Custer Heritage Center, like please take my account of

0:30:46.200 --> 0:30:49.440
<v Speaker 2>the United States like violent assault on the Lakota people

0:30:49.480 --> 0:30:52.200
<v Speaker 2>with a pinch of salt, because like I'm coming at

0:30:52.200 --> 0:30:55.960
<v Speaker 2>this from a certain perspective. And yeah, here we are

0:30:56.000 --> 0:30:59.800
<v Speaker 2>at twenty twenty three, still still doing the doing the

0:30:59.800 --> 0:31:03.120
<v Speaker 2>thing where we were, rather than just like taking the

0:31:03.360 --> 0:31:06.560
<v Speaker 2>l and just being like, oh, like it's bad actually

0:31:06.720 --> 0:31:11.480
<v Speaker 2>to rape and mutilate and murder people trying to equivocate.

0:31:11.840 --> 0:31:14.760
<v Speaker 1>It's funny you mentioned articles though, because I just saw

0:31:14.800 --> 0:31:18.560
<v Speaker 1>one and when I was researching for Alexai yesterday of

0:31:18.640 --> 0:31:21.440
<v Speaker 1>this Israeli cop that admitted that the videos he saw

0:31:21.680 --> 0:31:23.920
<v Speaker 1>was a bad. Look like that's what he said.

0:31:24.480 --> 0:31:28.480
<v Speaker 2>It was just like good cop. Yeah, And the course

0:31:28.520 --> 0:31:30.560
<v Speaker 2>of solution site is to not allow people to take

0:31:30.640 --> 0:31:35.040
<v Speaker 2>videos of you brutal. Yeah, yeah, that's the reituation. Yeah yeah.

0:31:35.080 --> 0:31:39.880
<v Speaker 2>Tim Apple known anti cop anarchist.

0:31:41.680 --> 0:31:45.280
<v Speaker 1>So Human Rights Watch and Anasty International have labeled it

0:31:45.320 --> 0:31:48.640
<v Speaker 1>was reel as an apartheid state, and Human Rights Watch

0:31:48.840 --> 0:31:52.560
<v Speaker 1>said in twenty twenty one, we reached this determination based

0:31:52.600 --> 0:31:56.280
<v Speaker 1>on our documentation of an overarching government policy to maintain

0:31:56.360 --> 0:32:01.600
<v Speaker 1>the domination by Jewish Israeli's over Palestinians. As recognition grows

0:32:01.680 --> 0:32:04.880
<v Speaker 1>that these crimes are being committed, the failure to recognize

0:32:04.880 --> 0:32:08.720
<v Speaker 1>that reality requires burying your head deeper and deeper into

0:32:08.760 --> 0:32:13.000
<v Speaker 1>the sand. Today, apartheid is not a hypothetical or future scenario,

0:32:13.760 --> 0:32:16.240
<v Speaker 1>and I apartheid is a very light word to use,

0:32:16.320 --> 0:32:20.360
<v Speaker 1>but I did want to just mention that an organization

0:32:20.440 --> 0:32:23.360
<v Speaker 1>said that, not just like I don't know, there's just

0:32:24.040 --> 0:32:26.400
<v Speaker 1>it's officially on paper that Israel sucks, Like why are

0:32:26.440 --> 0:32:28.760
<v Speaker 1>we still defending it? I'm just like, go rewatch the

0:32:28.760 --> 0:32:33.080
<v Speaker 1>Bernie Sanders video from yesterday, like or audio, because there's

0:32:33.120 --> 0:32:36.200
<v Speaker 1>no reason we should be funneling any kind of support

0:32:36.440 --> 0:32:37.280
<v Speaker 1>into that country.

0:32:38.400 --> 0:32:42.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I mean it did. It's mad. We still

0:32:42.720 --> 0:32:44.840
<v Speaker 2>made a loan of money selling weapons to Israel, but

0:32:44.960 --> 0:32:47.760
<v Speaker 2>it used against like and a. Robert and I pursued

0:32:47.800 --> 0:32:52.080
<v Speaker 2>a public records request for going on two years for

0:32:52.640 --> 0:32:57.280
<v Speaker 2>like these batteries that launch hundreds and hundreds of smoke

0:32:57.320 --> 0:33:01.920
<v Speaker 2>grenades and flash bangs that a US company is selling

0:33:01.920 --> 0:33:05.480
<v Speaker 2>to Israel, right, yeah, like it's great they can find

0:33:05.520 --> 0:33:08.960
<v Speaker 2>them into a mosque, I mean, not surprising, No, it's

0:33:09.000 --> 0:33:12.280
<v Speaker 2>just annoying. Annoying the wrong word, but like, yeah, there

0:33:12.280 --> 0:33:14.000
<v Speaker 2>are people who make a lot of money every time

0:33:15.040 --> 0:33:18.040
<v Speaker 2>things get more violent there, right, and people who are

0:33:18.120 --> 0:33:23.000
<v Speaker 2>very invested in that. Yeah, and yeah that's Gooulich as

0:33:23.000 --> 0:33:24.320
<v Speaker 2>fuck it is.

0:33:25.640 --> 0:33:28.920
<v Speaker 1>And that's actually all I have. That's a good, good

0:33:28.920 --> 0:33:33.720
<v Speaker 1>place to end, if any But I hope you learned

0:33:33.760 --> 0:33:36.240
<v Speaker 1>something if you didn't know something in this episode, and

0:33:36.720 --> 0:33:39.280
<v Speaker 1>I hope you go watch Futterha or God's Fights for Freedom.

0:33:39.920 --> 0:33:41.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't think this is history that should ever be

0:33:42.280 --> 0:33:45.960
<v Speaker 1>understated or forgotten, so I'm always more than happy to

0:33:46.000 --> 0:33:48.600
<v Speaker 1>talk about it, even if it's depressing. So thank you

0:33:48.640 --> 0:33:50.600
<v Speaker 1>for joining me today, James.

0:33:50.720 --> 0:33:53.160
<v Speaker 2>That's okay, it's been very uplifting. I don't be a right,

0:33:53.160 --> 0:33:56.800
<v Speaker 2>it's important, it's very important. Hopefully one day we'll have

0:33:56.840 --> 0:34:00.800
<v Speaker 2>the PK GASA episode. Yes, that would be great. I

0:34:00.800 --> 0:34:03.600
<v Speaker 2>guess if you're in the UK and have old copies

0:34:03.640 --> 0:34:07.120
<v Speaker 2>of Men's Health, you can read about young people doing

0:34:07.160 --> 0:34:11.080
<v Speaker 2>parkering Gaza. It's pretty heavy. I will have another story

0:34:11.160 --> 0:34:13.719
<v Speaker 2>about that soon. But yeah, where should people? I think

0:34:13.760 --> 0:34:16.560
<v Speaker 2>a good thing. Maybe if we could end on like, uh,

0:34:17.880 --> 0:34:21.720
<v Speaker 2>where is a good place to find news about Palestine?

0:34:21.960 --> 0:34:25.560
<v Speaker 1>I really like El Jazeera, especially their opinion pieces are

0:34:25.600 --> 0:34:27.760
<v Speaker 1>pretty good because a lot of the times they're written

0:34:27.800 --> 0:34:31.359
<v Speaker 1>by people that are really passionate about what they're writing. Yeah,

0:34:32.160 --> 0:34:36.360
<v Speaker 1>I think following actual Palestinians on social media is always

0:34:36.520 --> 0:34:41.120
<v Speaker 1>a good call. Like a Middle Kurd is one of

0:34:41.160 --> 0:34:44.960
<v Speaker 1>the most prominent voices recently that has been uplifted, and

0:34:45.120 --> 0:34:47.359
<v Speaker 1>I would follow his social media as his sister has

0:34:47.400 --> 0:34:51.040
<v Speaker 1>one as well. His family's house was basically we had

0:34:51.080 --> 0:34:55.480
<v Speaker 1>the threat of being demolished last year. His house was

0:34:55.520 --> 0:34:58.080
<v Speaker 1>in Schech if you remembered any of that stuff from

0:34:58.160 --> 0:35:01.440
<v Speaker 1>last year with the violence going on there. I also

0:35:01.520 --> 0:35:06.279
<v Speaker 1>really like Subitaha. He's on Instagram mostly and he has

0:35:06.320 --> 0:35:09.400
<v Speaker 1>a podcast now. I would highly recommend following his stuff.

0:35:09.480 --> 0:35:13.920
<v Speaker 1>He is so informed and so uh just easy to

0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:19.240
<v Speaker 1>understand too, So I would watch that. And yeah, Mohammed

0:35:19.320 --> 0:35:24.040
<v Speaker 1>Lakurt actually was on some news program like like Face

0:35:24.120 --> 0:35:26.279
<v Speaker 1>the Nation or no, maybe not that, but he was

0:35:26.320 --> 0:35:31.600
<v Speaker 1>on recently like basically uh, handing the asses of the

0:35:31.600 --> 0:35:34.200
<v Speaker 1>people that were talking to him about Israel and Palestine?

0:35:35.560 --> 0:35:36.560
<v Speaker 1>Is that the right way to say that?

0:35:36.600 --> 0:35:36.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

0:35:37.000 --> 0:35:40.120
<v Speaker 1>He was just stating he was he was not willing

0:35:40.160 --> 0:35:42.680
<v Speaker 1>to be talked over and whatever.

0:35:42.840 --> 0:35:46.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which I like, Yeah, he shouldn't be. My friend

0:35:46.320 --> 0:35:49.879
<v Speaker 2>Hussam is a photographer in Palestine. Most of those Auja

0:35:49.960 --> 0:35:54.000
<v Speaker 2>Zerra pieces you'll see are his photographs. Actually, well Sam

0:35:54.239 --> 0:35:59.759
<v Speaker 2>Salem Guh he's photograph we've worked together before. But yeah,

0:35:59.760 --> 0:36:01.760
<v Speaker 2>if you if you're a person who'd like to see pictures,

0:36:02.760 --> 0:36:03.719
<v Speaker 2>his pictures are very good.

0:36:04.239 --> 0:36:07.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a good point too. Also, there are a

0:36:07.239 --> 0:36:10.400
<v Speaker 1>lot of accounts that are solely about Palestine, and a

0:36:10.400 --> 0:36:13.279
<v Speaker 1>lot of these Palestine activists follow them and share them,

0:36:13.320 --> 0:36:17.319
<v Speaker 1>so you will find more organizations by following them. There

0:36:17.400 --> 0:36:22.160
<v Speaker 1>is I for Palestine. There's I think it's like land Palestine,

0:36:22.440 --> 0:36:26.480
<v Speaker 1>Like I think, there's a lot of really trusted accounts

0:36:26.520 --> 0:36:28.920
<v Speaker 1>on the Internet. You have to find the ones that

0:36:28.960 --> 0:36:33.480
<v Speaker 1>are trusted, and a lot of times it's stuff from

0:36:33.480 --> 0:36:35.239
<v Speaker 1>the ground and that's the stuff that needs to be

0:36:36.360 --> 0:36:40.520
<v Speaker 1>seen and shared because if there's going to be any

0:36:40.600 --> 0:36:44.400
<v Speaker 1>upside to fucking internet and social media, it has to

0:36:44.400 --> 0:36:48.520
<v Speaker 1>be to spread stuff like this around and make sure

0:36:48.520 --> 0:36:49.440
<v Speaker 1>people know about it.

0:36:49.480 --> 0:36:53.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. Yeah, I think it gives us a

0:36:53.200 --> 0:36:57.040
<v Speaker 2>way to like get underneath that like hegemonic narrative and

0:36:57.200 --> 0:37:00.360
<v Speaker 2>see what happens to real people every day. Yeah.

0:37:00.560 --> 0:37:09.920
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, that's that's all. Okay, whatever, that's the episode. Bye.

0:37:11.160 --> 0:37:13.640
<v Speaker 2>It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media.

0:37:13.760 --> 0:37:16.440
<v Speaker 1>For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

0:37:16.440 --> 0:37:19.560
<v Speaker 1>coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

0:37:19.600 --> 0:37:22.960
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

0:37:22.960 --> 0:37:25.680
<v Speaker 1>find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at

0:37:25.719 --> 0:37:28.960
<v Speaker 1>cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.