Speaker 1: Welcome to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM paranormal
Speaker 1: podcast network. I'll get ready for another episode of Beyond
Speaker 1: Contact with Captain Wrong.
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Speaker 4: Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week on Beyond Contact,
Speaker 4: we'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of
Speaker 4: the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from
Speaker 4: the newest cases as we talk with the top experts.
Speaker 5: Welcome to Beyond Contact. I am Captain Ron, and today
Speaker 5: we're going to be speaking with Jay Christopher King. Jay's
Speaker 5: the co founder of the Inquire Anomalist conference series. He's
Speaker 5: also the co founder of the newly formed production company
Speaker 5: on Tocolyps Productions, who are gearing up right now for
Speaker 5: the release of their new docuseries called The Beyond UFOs
Speaker 5: and a New Reality. Jay is also the co founder
Speaker 5: and the director of the Experiencer Group, which is a
Speaker 5: private online community dedicated to supporting people who've had anomalous
Speaker 5: experiences of all kinds. In fact, Jay does a mini
Speaker 5: version of his experience or group sessions live for us
Speaker 5: every year at Contact in the Desert, and we really
Speaker 5: appreciate him being part of our team. It's great to
Speaker 5: see your brother.
Speaker 6: How are you, Oh, it's wonderful to be here. I'm
Speaker 6: doing great.
Speaker 5: How are you doing, Ron, I'm doing good. We're getting
Speaker 5: ready to dial in for next year. Fantastic far away,
Speaker 5: but it's going to come up quick, you know how.
Speaker 6: Oh my gosh, it sure is. Every year gets a
Speaker 6: little bit quicker as we get older.
Speaker 5: Incredible, it's incredible. It's like this time dilation like an
Speaker 5: experiencer would have we're having now, you know what I mean.
Speaker 6: It's so true, it's so true.
Speaker 5: So man, You've had a lot of experience dealing with
Speaker 5: different experiencers, working directly with them, talking with people who
Speaker 5: claim to have had firsthand experiences with all sorts of
Speaker 5: anomalist phenomena, specifically with regards to those who say have
Speaker 5: had a contact with let's call it an alien being.
Speaker 5: I want to ask you do you see the same
Speaker 5: sort of accounts over and over. Are there similar tent
Speaker 5: poles to each of these accounts or do they vary?
Speaker 6: That's a great question, Thanks Ron. They do very somewhat,
Speaker 6: but yeah, I have dealt with hundreds of people that
Speaker 6: have had either contact events or sightings. With regard to
Speaker 6: nhis and UAPs, there are ten poles in terms of
Speaker 6: people seeing grays, either short grays or tall grays. More
Speaker 6: people see short grays than tall grays. If they report
Speaker 6: having been in kind of like the medical situation or
Speaker 6: on a craft or something like that, it seems much
Speaker 6: more likely for them to see a tall grade than
Speaker 6: a short gray. People report similar medical devices, and some
Speaker 6: of those devices are much less reported in media, kind
Speaker 6: of don't make it to movies or TV shows and
Speaker 6: things like that. As far as other characteristics that are
Speaker 6: similar a lot of As you were mentioning, time dilation,
Speaker 6: time dilation is an effect that it happens often where
Speaker 6: people think that they experience something and it seems like
Speaker 6: only maybe four minutes have past, and in fact it
Speaker 6: was two or three hours. Or sometimes it happens the
Speaker 6: other way, where something seems to have taken a very
Speaker 6: long time but it's actually pretty short when they look
Speaker 6: at the clock.
Speaker 5: It seems to me like in three D life, time
Speaker 5: is often distorted with any traumatic experience you ever see,
Speaker 5: Like someone has a car accident, it'll be three seconds
Speaker 5: for the car accident. But when they describe it and
Speaker 5: they'll do a reenactment oftentimes on these shows, and they
Speaker 5: said it felt like twenty minutes. I wonder if that's
Speaker 5: sort of a similar thing going on, that this is
Speaker 5: a traumatic experience, therefore time gets manipulated in our head.
Speaker 6: I think that there's a strong correlation there. Yeah, And
Speaker 6: I think that that's a really good observation run people
Speaker 6: for years have commented on missing time. For example, I
Speaker 6: mean that's the title of Bud Hopkins' classic book, one
Speaker 6: of the first books on abduction experiences in general, Missing Time,
Speaker 6: from nineteen eighty one. The thing is is that people
Speaker 6: that have all sorts of trauma have missing time. There's
Speaker 6: a little bit of confusion there because for years people
Speaker 6: assume that, oh, these powerful beings with their mysterious craft
Speaker 6: that looks so weird, they must be able to erase
Speaker 6: our memories. But in fact, if we look at medical data,
Speaker 6: we can erase our own memories, and we do all
Speaker 6: the time when things are just too challenging or too
Speaker 6: stressful for us. So there's really, you know, no pun intended,
Speaker 6: but a gray area here where we have our own
Speaker 6: recycle button, you know. And then there seems to be
Speaker 6: a situation where these other beings may be able to
Speaker 6: manipulate our memories as well.
Speaker 5: I think a lot of these experiencers have dealt with
Speaker 5: different phenomenon as well, and I wanted to ask you
Speaker 5: if you think they have the experience that they say
Speaker 5: it is, or if they could be experiencing something different,
Speaker 5: a different type of phenomenon, but they're putting perhaps their
Speaker 5: own lens on it, you know, through their own use
Speaker 5: of labels or whatever, because we don't know what to
Speaker 5: call this stuff because it's all unknown, and going back
Speaker 5: through history, we have reports of people saying they saw
Speaker 5: fairies come down from the trees, but somebody has a
Speaker 5: similar experience today might call it I saw an alien
Speaker 5: come down from the sky. What do you think Are
Speaker 5: they having the same kind of experience and they're putting
Speaker 5: different labels or words on it, or do you think
Speaker 5: these are distinct phenomenon.
Speaker 6: That's a great question. I think that there is kind
Speaker 6: of a vind diagram of these experiences. A very famous
Speaker 6: case that comes to mind is one of the key
Speaker 6: events in Our Lady of Fatima. The Portuguese sightings from
Speaker 6: the early part of the twentieth century. There are thousands
Speaker 6: and thousands of people that had these sightings that were
Speaker 6: in Portugal and would see this luminous spinning plate looking
Speaker 6: sun moving around the sky before these children would see
Speaker 6: these beings. There's a lot of challenging interpretations of that
Speaker 6: particular case because even among the three children that would
Speaker 6: have this sighting of what seemed like it was maybe
Speaker 6: the Virgin Mary. That's kind of the popular conception of it.
Speaker 6: When you actually look at the descriptions and Portuguese of
Speaker 6: like what this woman looked like. She was actually very small,
Speaker 6: she didn't have the traditional appearance of Mary per se,
Speaker 6: and the smallest child actually said that the being wasn't
Speaker 6: a woman at all. It sometimes appeared to be like
Speaker 6: a non human.
Speaker 5: Wow. Right, fascinating and from that long ago, see that's right,
Speaker 5: that's example, Jade, nice, pull that out of your brain.
Speaker 5: That's very good man.
Speaker 6: People that would gather for these sightings, they would sometimes
Speaker 6: hear something that sounded like a swarm of bees. That's
Speaker 6: another kind of secondary phenomenon that people report in close
Speaker 6: contact experiences with UFOs as well. Some of the children
Speaker 6: at the Rua Aerial School sighting in nineteen ninety four
Speaker 6: reported a very similar sound seventy seven years later. All right, okay,
Speaker 6: what does this tell us about perception? And is there
Speaker 6: something about our brains that kind of like filter this
Speaker 6: in in a certain way that starts to adopt certain
Speaker 6: characteristics Or if we see something that's that strange or
Speaker 6: is coming in from what have you, another dimension outside
Speaker 6: of our typical realm of perception, whatever that is, is
Speaker 6: there something in our brains or are in our sensory
Speaker 6: organs that bring in some of these aspects.
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 6: For example, Nick Cook, who I'm sure you know Nick
Speaker 6: Cook calls these figures rogue icons, and I like that
Speaker 6: where he doesn't call it, you know, a religious figure,
Speaker 6: he doesn't call it a gray he doesn't try to
Speaker 6: put a name on it. He calls it a rogue icon,
Speaker 6: almost as if it's like a chess piece that's like
Speaker 6: coming in from some other realm and that we just
Speaker 6: need to have kind of like a more general placeholder
Speaker 6: term for something like that.
Speaker 5: I totally agree with him. I think that's part of
Speaker 5: the problem. And you can imagine how back then at
Speaker 5: Fatima it was probably a much more religious society, and
Speaker 5: they framed it immediately. They might, well, it must be Mary,
Speaker 5: where today you might jump to it might must be
Speaker 5: an alien. Right. Yeah, I get angry because people often
Speaker 5: jump to it must be an alien way prematurely from
Speaker 5: my view. Let me ask you this, Jay, do you
Speaker 5: do you think that any of these stories you hear
Speaker 5: have more of a three D terrestrial explanation, like maybe
Speaker 5: it's a misunderstood dream state or misidentification of a projection
Speaker 5: on a wall, or somebody's imagination kind of getting away
Speaker 5: from them. What do you think I think that does happen.
Speaker 6: You know, it is important to remember that that some
Speaker 6: people really do have very severe mental illnesses, and that
Speaker 6: some people you know, suffer from delusions and they can
Speaker 6: be perceptual hallucinations, and that some people, especially maybe if
Speaker 6: they have profound drug or alcohol issues, especially you know,
Speaker 6: drug issues. I don't know many people that drink and
Speaker 6: then see things, you know, that's not usually a situation
Speaker 6: that happens like that, But some drugs will produce hallucinatory effects.
Speaker 6: Of course, you know, I'm not a pharmacologist, but I
Speaker 6: would imagine that there are some prescribed drugs that might
Speaker 6: lead someone towards more hallucinations than others. And at the
Speaker 6: same time, there is such a uniformity and going back
Speaker 6: decades and like we're talking about even centuries with similar
Speaker 6: phenomena that we just want to put a name on.
Speaker 6: Luminous shield shaped craft coming down from the sky. I mean,
Speaker 6: this goes back to the Roman era, it goes back
Speaker 6: beyond that even and there's something to it. You know,
Speaker 6: if we look in old Celtic and fairy lore, there's
Speaker 6: a lot of tales of strange beings and ships coming
Speaker 6: out of the water, and that really mirror a very contemporary,
Speaker 6: almost like a fashionable thing to talk about these days
Speaker 6: within UFOs, which is usocases and trans medium craft.
Speaker 5: Look how you said they called it shields because it
Speaker 5: looked like a shield. That was their frame of reference.
Speaker 5: And I think it's been going on throughout time that
Speaker 5: this is such an unknown thing for the human experience
Speaker 5: that we don't know how to describe it because we
Speaker 5: don't have the vocabulary for it. When we come back
Speaker 5: We're going to talk to Jay about what he thinks
Speaker 5: some of these experiences may be originating from you're listening
Speaker 5: to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
Speaker 5: AM Paranormal podcast network.
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Speaker 5: We are back on Beyond Contact. Jay. Let me ask
Speaker 5: you this about the Experiencer Group. What are people looking for?
Speaker 5: Do you think when they come there, is it validation
Speaker 5: that this might be real? Are they looking for how
Speaker 5: to stop it? Are they looking for explanations? What are
Speaker 5: they looking for?
Speaker 6: All of the above. Absolutely, it's a great question. Some
Speaker 6: people do come to the Experiencer Group for validation, just
Speaker 6: to frame it up. The Experiencer Group again, it's a
Speaker 6: private member site online. You can find it through tg
Speaker 6: members dot com, dedicated to support curiosity and community for
Speaker 6: those who've lived through anomalous events of any and all kinds.
Speaker 6: So that could be UAP encounters, non human intelligence, near
Speaker 6: death experiences, out of body experiences, precognition. There's people that
Speaker 6: have seen cryptids, hauntings, all manner of anomalous experiences. Because
Speaker 6: what we find in the group is that, you know,
Speaker 6: if somebody's had one form of anomalous experience, it's actually
Speaker 6: somewhat likely that eventually, later down the line, they'll report
Speaker 6: something else. Maybe that's because we don't have great definitions
Speaker 6: for what this really is, or even when something really
Speaker 6: begins and when something ends as an event, because often
Speaker 6: when we really dig into details, there's precursor events or
Speaker 6: things that are kind of after effects of these situations
Speaker 6: that look like other anomalous events that might be really
Speaker 6: tied to that kind of core event itself. People will
Speaker 6: often report before UFO sidings like pultugeist activity or right afterwards.
Speaker 6: That's a really kind of inconvenient truth. Absolutely, and people
Speaker 6: have reported that, like George Knapp and Colin Kella hur
Speaker 6: talked about in that in Skinwalk of the Pentagon, and
Speaker 6: there are other works. There does seem to be a
Speaker 6: tie with what people think of as pultugeist activity with
Speaker 6: UFO activity, And of course historically we look at poultugeist
Speaker 6: activity as being close to ghosts or people that have died,
Speaker 6: but we don't actually know that to be the case.
Speaker 6: We don't know that to be literally true. Pulture geised
Speaker 6: activity does seem to be sometimes tied to a specific place,
Speaker 6: a certain physical location or a certain house, and we
Speaker 6: assume that has to do with the life of somebody beforehand,
Speaker 6: but we don't know that maybe a leap that we
Speaker 6: make exactly, Yes, absolutely, and so that's a leap that
Speaker 6: we make. And it's also a leap to suggest that
Speaker 6: just because something an object moves around or disappears and
Speaker 6: reappears in a situation that seems to be connected with
Speaker 6: a quote unquote haunting. We don't necessarily know that that's
Speaker 6: a ghost of an actual being, and we don't know
Speaker 6: why that happens in general, and why that can't be
Speaker 6: a transferable phenomenon or something that also happens in situations
Speaker 6: like in UAP cases where some craft or some being
Speaker 6: seems to blip in from out of nowhere. Those kinds
Speaker 6: of biases tend to limit reporting because, you know, when
Speaker 6: somebody sees something like this, like a ghost or a
Speaker 6: UFO or a gray or what have you, there's often
Speaker 6: a form of self censorship that happens because they don't
Speaker 6: want to, you know, seem crazy. But then that will
Speaker 6: limit the data that you get. For example, with grays,
Speaker 6: sometimes they appear to be naked, right, they don't appear
Speaker 6: to have genitals, but they appear to be naked. But
Speaker 6: to prior generations that often seemed like too far. For
Speaker 6: some reason, there's a weird being. It looked really strange,
Speaker 6: and by the way, it was naked, and we all
Speaker 6: get it.
Speaker 5: That's the fact that there's this bug looking thing in
Speaker 5: my room, but oh my god, naked. Yeah, I even
Speaker 5: think of that. Yeah, right, yeah, but.
Speaker 6: There's so many cases where they'll come out later and say,
Speaker 6: like it was actually naked. We need to hear what
Speaker 6: actually happened. We need to hear those actual details so
Speaker 6: that a we can corroborate these cases amongst each other,
Speaker 6: but also so we can figure out what the heck
Speaker 6: is actually going on exactly.
Speaker 5: Let's talk about that. What are some of the options
Speaker 5: of what could be happening here with regarding the visitation
Speaker 5: of any of these non human intelligences. To me, it
Speaker 5: seems like years ago it was a very straightforward topic,
Speaker 5: but now it seems like there's all these different possible modalities,
Speaker 5: these different schools of thought. Are they coming from across
Speaker 5: the galaxy? Are they interstellar? Are they interdimensional? Are they
Speaker 5: ultra terrestrial or crypto terrestrial? You know the John Keele
Speaker 5: idea that a species evolved alongside of humans but it
Speaker 5: remained hidden with their own technology. Or are the extra
Speaker 5: tempestrial the doctor Michael Master's idea that they're from the
Speaker 5: future and they're coming back to see how we developed.
Speaker 5: There's so many of these things. What do you think
Speaker 5: could be happening?
Speaker 6: I think it could be all of the above. Yeah,
Speaker 6: I think it could be any and all. I mean,
Speaker 6: I love John Keel's work. You know, there's a lot
Speaker 6: of material in there that goes back decades that we're
Speaker 6: still we're still behind, you know, the central conversations about
Speaker 6: UFOs are still sometimes years behind. But Keil was talking
Speaker 6: about forty eight plus years ago.
Speaker 5: I was just going to say here that you were
Speaker 5: saying the different ways of perception right there. You know,
Speaker 5: maybe there's a way we're just not fully seeing these
Speaker 5: non human entities. Just a few weeks ago, we did
Speaker 5: a show on October fourth on Perspective and one of
Speaker 5: the examples we used was what if you lived next
Speaker 5: door to a radio station and it had a giant
Speaker 5: antenna in the front yard. Even though you live right
Speaker 5: next door and they're blasting out all this information, you
Speaker 5: can't hear it. You need a receiver. So let's say
Speaker 5: you even do have a receiver. Beyond that, you've got
Speaker 5: to tune it into the exact right frequency that they're broadcasting.
Speaker 5: If you're off by one millimeter, you still can't sit
Speaker 5: here what they're saying. Maybe these other entities are just
Speaker 5: a little bit off and we're just not able to
Speaker 5: perceive them.
Speaker 6: Yet absolutely Yeah, there's a term in semiotics that gets
Speaker 6: at this, and something that's often used by biologists and
Speaker 6: even by anthropologists. It's called umvelt and it's a German
Speaker 6: term that means environment, specifically about the specific way organisms
Speaker 6: of a particular species experience the world, which is dependent
Speaker 6: on their sensory organs and perceptual systems. We cover this
Speaker 6: in our upcoming docu series that there's a certain kind
Speaker 6: of tick and this tick can only detect a certain
Speaker 6: form of butaric acid that animals secrete on their skin
Speaker 6: like we do. It can sense changes in heat, so
Speaker 6: it can figure out and drop down or move over
Speaker 6: to an animal and begin the process of sucking their blood.
Speaker 6: But you know, think about all the different kinds of
Speaker 6: data that it doesn't get when the tick is, you know,
Speaker 6: sucking blood from your artron. It doesn't know that you
Speaker 6: produce contact in the desert. It doesn't know that you
Speaker 6: do a podcast. It doesn't know what a podcast is.
Speaker 6: It has no idea. Yeah, it has no idea. And like, similarly,
Speaker 6: like we could be suffering. Similarly, infrared technology is more
Speaker 6: available to the masses. More people are seeing UFOs in
Speaker 6: the sky. You know, there are a lot more situations
Speaker 6: like infrared, that we could still be on the precipice
Speaker 6: of even knowing about where these other beings may be hiding.
Speaker 6: We could be on the precipice of these kinds of
Speaker 6: discoveries like infrared that could point us towards where some
Speaker 6: of these beings are hiding.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, we could be just that one millimeter off. I
Speaker 5: absolutely believe that, you know, there's so many new ways
Speaker 5: of thinking about this topic. Jay, Earlier we were saying,
Speaker 5: how we make this leap that ghosts are dead people,
Speaker 5: or you know, we make this connection. There's also this
Speaker 5: question of our UFOs and aliens even tied together. Someone
Speaker 5: said this to me recently, and it actually may have
Speaker 5: been Whity as a matter of fact, that it's possible
Speaker 5: that these visitation experiences don't necessarily have anything to do
Speaker 5: with UFO craft per se. What do you think about that?
Speaker 6: I think that that's really really interesting, And I've heard
Speaker 6: similar possibilities from Whitley himself and other experiencers that there
Speaker 6: are only limited cases where people see a craft and
Speaker 6: a non human intelligence like a gray for example, or
Speaker 6: you know, some people report manted beings or Nordics or
Speaker 6: other kind of more marginal figures. But it's often the
Speaker 6: case that when people see one of these beings, what
Speaker 6: they're more seeing is, you know, something showing up in
Speaker 6: their living room or their bedroom. Right, there are a
Speaker 6: lot of cases. Historically, we don't get many anymore, and
Speaker 6: I think it's important to also name this that the
Speaker 6: data does seem to suggest that there is a high
Speaker 6: point of abduction cases and similar cases. They're really peaked
Speaker 6: in the eighties and nineties and then seem to kind
Speaker 6: of trail off. There are still people reporting situations like this,
Speaker 6: but the case numbers have fallen off quite a bit,
Speaker 6: and there's a lot of kind of debate about whether
Speaker 6: that's people still being quite about things. But the people
Speaker 6: that are still reporting this generally it started for them
Speaker 6: in the eighties and nineties, and it seems to be
Speaker 6: kind of more like a checkup rather than like a
Speaker 6: new situation.
Speaker 5: Right, And we wondered, you know, does it mean that
Speaker 5: they're getting visited less or it seems like it's a
Speaker 5: more open environment to come out with this information. Now
Speaker 5: you think the number would go think, but maybe whoever's
Speaker 5: doing this got what they needed and they don't need
Speaker 5: to do it as often we don't know. It's so
Speaker 5: hard to talk about these things because they're all unknowns. Absolutely,
Speaker 5: we got to take a break there. Jay. When we
Speaker 5: come back, we're going to talk to Jay about his
Speaker 5: new docuseries on the UFO and alien subject and how
Speaker 5: it takes a different approach than we've seen in the past.
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Speaker 5: We are back on Beyond Contact. I am Captain Ron
Speaker 5: and we're talking with Jay King about his new docuseries. So, Jay,
Speaker 5: I like the name for your production company, even though
Speaker 5: I can't pronounce it. But it's on Tocolypse, which your
Speaker 5: site defines as an unveiling of a new reality, often
Speaker 5: leading to a state of internal chaos and a profound
Speaker 5: paradigm shift in philosophical and existential frameworks. We probably do
Speaker 5: need a new way to look at this topic, as
Speaker 5: we've been discussing here. I mean, I think one of
Speaker 5: the biggest problems today is that this topic is generally
Speaker 5: portrayed in the media incorrectly. They treat this topic like
Speaker 5: a genre, and they don't often take it right from
Speaker 5: the actual experiencers, as we've seen in many films time
Speaker 5: and time again. You've worked in TV production for years.
Speaker 5: Why can't Hollywood actually tell us the experience or story
Speaker 5: exactly how it happened. Isn't it incredible enough that this
Speaker 5: guy met somebody from another world?
Speaker 6: I really appreciate this question. Thanks Ron. It's historically been
Speaker 6: an extraordinary challenge for Hollywood writers, directors, et cetera to
Speaker 6: get it right. I mean, one of the closest examples
Speaker 6: that you can find is Close Encounters of the Third
Speaker 6: kind was Steven Spielberg. There you had a very close
Speaker 6: case that had a lot of the high strangeness elements
Speaker 6: and kind of this strange other phenomena that surround these situations.
Speaker 6: I think one of the biggest problems here is that
Speaker 6: writers in Hollywood and in TV in general, and in
Speaker 6: movies tend to get a little bit lazy. In formulaic
Speaker 6: they want a movie to obey a three acts structure.
Speaker 6: They want to get in and out in ninety to
Speaker 6: one hundred and ten minutes, and similarly with TV shows,
Speaker 6: they wanted to make sense in twenty three minutes or
Speaker 6: forty four minutes with ad breaks. And that can be really,
Speaker 6: really challenging for some of these stories because often with experiencers,
Speaker 6: they can't really tell you where something began or where's
Speaker 6: something ended. They might only have fragmentary memories of something
Speaker 6: like this, or they might kind of associate development where
Speaker 6: it's like, well, this happened, but that seemed to really
Speaker 6: be high strangeness synchronicity where I was having a telepathic
Speaker 6: contact and it was referencing this weird dream I had
Speaker 6: twenty years ago. These are the kind of details that
Speaker 6: when you add them together, they present this kind of
Speaker 6: absurd quality that Jacques Vilat talked about a lot in
Speaker 6: books like Messengers of Deception. There's a co creative element,
Speaker 6: and there seems to be an element where some of
Speaker 6: these intelligences are able to access our own personal history,
Speaker 6: our own personal symbology, and our own recollection of time,
Speaker 6: regardless of its accuracy or not. That seems to be
Speaker 6: the land that some of these beings can live in.
Speaker 6: And TV and movie we are watching conversations happen, we're
Speaker 6: watching activity occur. Much of the land of high strangeness
Speaker 6: lives in the world of the symbolic and lives within
Speaker 6: the realm of referencing our own personal histories that take
Speaker 6: a lot kind of more backstory than a ninety minute
Speaker 6: feature can account for. There are kind of other inconvenient
Speaker 6: elements that does seem to be like a corollary maybe
Speaker 6: between for example, out of body experiences and abduction experiences.
Speaker 6: People often are talking about something like a subtle realm,
Speaker 6: some like non ordinary state of perception that exists in
Speaker 6: an out of body situation where for some reason, somebody's
Speaker 6: consciousness is able to temporarily relocate outside their body. There
Speaker 6: are situations like sleep paralysis where people will report like
Speaker 6: a weird buzzing and that their body's frozen, but they
Speaker 6: have perceptual awareness and sometimes they see beings or have
Speaker 6: experiences or able to leave their body in a situation
Speaker 6: like that. However, they're tethering it to what it's called
Speaker 6: sleep paralysis. But the reality is that we don't even
Speaker 6: really know what sleep paralysis is. We'll use it as
Speaker 6: a blanket concept for a whole range of situations.
Speaker 5: Remember that guy that came up with the god helmet. Yeah,
Speaker 5: you could trigger a certain part of your brain and
Speaker 5: you would see a bright light in beings that very
Speaker 5: much replicated the abduction experience. So there may be some
Speaker 5: other thing happening here.
Speaker 6: That's right, And so you know, there are some theories
Speaker 6: about like does out of body experience give you access
Speaker 6: to this kind of more liminal or more perceptually challenging
Speaker 6: state where these beings more naturally reside And I don't
Speaker 6: know that to be the case. I'm not sure that
Speaker 6: grays just perpetually reside in a realm that's just adjacent
Speaker 6: to us. It's a convenient theory, like the convenient theory
Speaker 6: of them flying in ships from another world. We have
Speaker 6: all these ideas, and they may all be true. They
Speaker 6: may also be a little bit wrong. We often think
Speaker 6: about the misinformation aspect that we receive from our own
Speaker 6: government or the military industrial complex, but we sometimes avoid
Speaker 6: or forget the aspect where we might be receiving a
Speaker 6: ton of misinformation from these other beings themselves.
Speaker 5: Even if you talk to experi answers, they don't know.
Speaker 5: We're all speculating and guessing, So this is very difficult.
Speaker 5: You guys seem to have taken a little bit of
Speaker 5: a different approach on this topic with this new company,
Speaker 5: in this new docuseries. Tell me how that how you
Speaker 5: have a different approach.
Speaker 6: Thanks so much for the question.
Speaker 5: Ron.
Speaker 6: With the beyond UFOs and a New Reality, we were
Speaker 6: really looking at what has happened in TV recently in
Speaker 6: recent years, and there are often series that are very
Speaker 6: grounded and have more kind of credible experts talking about
Speaker 6: a situation looking at it. For a writer from a
Speaker 6: director's perspective. They're looking at like, how do I prove
Speaker 6: this case to somebody that doesn't leave in this And
Speaker 6: then on the other hand, you have shows that are
Speaker 6: completely ungrounded that you know, we'll bring in anybody and
Speaker 6: say like, oh, this must be aliens. That's aliens. You know,
Speaker 6: the researchers themselves don't have much credibility to them. They've
Speaker 6: just been in the field for a while. Those shows
Speaker 6: can be great as well, they can be a lot
Speaker 6: of fun, But we're trying to carve like a different
Speaker 6: path through the middle where we wanted to unshackle credible
Speaker 6: researchers and kind of start with the general premise that yes,
Speaker 6: there's fundamental reality here. Now let's have deeper discussions about
Speaker 6: what that means and so being able to really present
Speaker 6: hypotheses that go beyond what we normally see on television
Speaker 6: where it's like, okay, maybe they aren't extraterrestrial, maybe or
Speaker 6: maybe they sometimes are, but like, let's talk about the
Speaker 6: crypto terrestrial hypothesis, let's talk about extra tempstrials, let's talk
Speaker 6: about all this stuff. Where do we go from there
Speaker 6: and what does that mean about the nature of our
Speaker 6: reality itself?
Speaker 5: The process of doing that will help us flush some
Speaker 5: of this out. And I wanted to ask you, why
Speaker 5: do you think that most people don't seem to take
Speaker 5: many of these first person cases, these accounts seriously? Why
Speaker 5: do you think people struggle to accept this?
Speaker 6: I think some people struggle to accept it because it
Speaker 6: just never touches their lives. I understand how many of the.
Speaker 5: Things that don't touch my life that I accept.
Speaker 6: Sure, I've never been to Russia, but I trust that
Speaker 6: it exists, right. But it's challenging for people. I think
Speaker 6: partially because I mean John Keel. We talked about John
Speaker 6: Keel a little bit earlier. John Keel in the Eighth Tower,
Speaker 6: he writes about how I'm going to paraphrase here, that
Speaker 6: about ten to fifteen percent of the populace is able
Speaker 6: to receive information like this, meaning the actual anomalous events themselves,
Speaker 6: and then that other people are dealing with it secondhand,
Speaker 6: that core kind of ten to fifteen percent are really
Speaker 6: dealing with it on a more regular basis, and that
Speaker 6: it might have to do more with like difference in
Speaker 6: perception between one person in another and then other people
Speaker 6: might have a one off event. So I think that
Speaker 6: part of it comes down to the idea that, like
Speaker 6: something that seems so fantastic and unbelievable, some people think
Speaker 6: that that could only happen once, as if it would
Speaker 6: be like the equivalent of getting struck by lightning. But
Speaker 6: for example, a haunted house really exists, and that ghosts
Speaker 6: really kind of pervade that space, or that Poltugeist activity
Speaker 6: could be happening on a regular basis, then we have
Speaker 6: to confront the possibility or the probability that these things
Speaker 6: might happen much more often for certain people than others.
Speaker 5: But I'm curious as to why people like a vy Lobe,
Speaker 5: John Mack and their respected worldwide then they talk about
Speaker 5: this topic and suddenly they don't know what they're talking about.
Speaker 5: It doesn't seem right to dismiss these guys.
Speaker 6: I completely agree with you. I mean, John Mack, I'm
Speaker 6: really glad you brought up doctor mac so he was
Speaker 6: kind of like the perfect person as the head of
Speaker 6: psychiatry at Harvard, who is an expert on nightmares and
Speaker 6: dream states and childhood psychology to be then looking at
Speaker 6: cases of what we're thought of as abductions.
Speaker 5: If we want to study these people and say, oh,
Speaker 5: my god, these people are crazy. Well, let's bring in
Speaker 5: the top guy in the world in psychology and have
Speaker 5: him look at this. He does, then he comes to
Speaker 5: the conclusion that they're not having a delusion, that it's
Speaker 5: something else. Why can't we accept this expert's opinion. That's
Speaker 5: what frustrates me.
Speaker 6: There's the truism within science that science progresses one funeral
Speaker 6: at a time, and sometimes that just has to be
Speaker 6: the case. That as we've been talking about here, and
Speaker 6: as I've talked with you in the pastor on, there
Speaker 6: is so much academic stigma. Avlobe faces it as well.
Speaker 5: It's incredible not to mention all of the military witnesses
Speaker 5: that we haven't even touched on. These are highly decorated, respectable,
Speaker 5: trustworthy guys. We're going to take another break there. When
Speaker 5: we come back, we're going to talk to Jay more
Speaker 5: about this topic and get into his personal experiences. Listening
Speaker 5: to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
Speaker 5: am Paranormal podcast network. Hey, it's the Wizard of Weird
Speaker 5: Joshua P.
Speaker 6: Warren.
Speaker 5: Don't forget to check out my show Strange Things.
Speaker 10: Each week as I bring you the world of the
Speaker 10: truly amazing and bizarre right here on the iHeartRadio and
Speaker 10: Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 5: Hey, it's producer Tom and you're right where you need
Speaker 5: to be. This is the iHeart Radio and Coast to
Speaker 5: Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 8: Hey, this is George Nap and you're listening to the
Speaker 8: iHeart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 5: We are back on Beyond Contact. We're having a great
Speaker 5: conversation today with Jay Christopher King. Jay, you've had your
Speaker 5: own anomalous experiences. How did these experiences change your life?
Speaker 6: Thanks for asking. Ron. You know, I have my own
Speaker 6: personal biases in terms of like what I really pay
Speaker 6: attention to. I think a lot of people, if they
Speaker 6: know my name, am usually tied to UFOs and that's
Speaker 6: for good reason though. Also when I was a kid,
Speaker 6: I lived in a house that was thought of as haunted,
Speaker 6: starting when I was about six years old in Mishawaka, Indiana.
Speaker 6: There's a lot of strange phenomena there. Poultrygeist activity, strange
Speaker 6: shadows on the walls, lights going on and off, apparitions.
Speaker 6: My father, who is a retired electrical engineer, really wanted
Speaker 6: it to be an electrical problem. It still didn't account
Speaker 6: for the strange shadows, the apparition in the Poultergeist activity.
Speaker 6: And then when he did check the electrical systems in
Speaker 6: the house, the lights going on and off didn't have
Speaker 6: a conventional explanation either. My mom, I, my little baby sister,
Speaker 6: my dad were all deeply troubled by this phenomenon that
Speaker 6: was happening in the house. Then several years later, I
Speaker 6: did have an experience in Hanover, Indiana. After my mom
Speaker 6: and dad divorced, my mom remarried, we moved down there
Speaker 6: and I had a typical abduction experience. I was in
Speaker 6: my bed and there were two short grays passed the
Speaker 6: foot of my bed, one of them I was about nine.
Speaker 6: I was about nine nine and a half years old.
Speaker 6: There were two grays passed the foot of my bed,
Speaker 6: and one of them had his feet on the ground,
Speaker 6: and one of them seemed to be levitating slightly. I
Speaker 6: don't know how I was levitating. I didn't even have
Speaker 6: like a conception of what these beings were. You know,
Speaker 6: this is the eighties. What people would have known from
Speaker 6: a gray before for that point would have been close
Speaker 6: encounters Widley's book may have just come out, But again
Speaker 6: I was a small child. I wouldn't have known about that.
Speaker 5: And you do hear about the levitation thing. Even Calvin
Speaker 5: Parker thought that they didn't walk, that they levitated. There's
Speaker 5: many examples, that's right.
Speaker 6: And so I saw it levitating, and that one was
Speaker 6: holding a strange like rod in its hand, like a
Speaker 6: metallic rod. Initially I wasn't scared. I was just like
Speaker 6: really interested. I didn't know what these things were. But
Speaker 6: then they didn't really engage with me. There was no smiles,
Speaker 6: there were no greetings, there was no welcome. The one
Speaker 6: on the ground started walking towards me in kind of
Speaker 6: a hurried manner that looked almost marionette like like. Its
Speaker 6: movement was freaky, and the other one that was levitating
Speaker 6: raised that weird rod towards me. I don't remember what
Speaker 6: happened after that, so it was a very very short situation,
Speaker 6: but it ingrained in my memory. Of course, there are
Speaker 6: a few other situations that happened just after that, within
Speaker 6: that next period of time, where I saw a singular
Speaker 6: being like that. Again, you know, again, I don't know
Speaker 6: where these beings come from. I don't know why they
Speaker 6: do what they do. I don't know why these events
Speaker 6: happened so often in the eighties and nineties and then
Speaker 6: some before that, but those grays showing up less over time,
Speaker 6: since I just know that I have the memory of
Speaker 6: it happening. I remember it happening at the time. I
Speaker 6: think it's fascinating. And for a lot of years I
Speaker 6: had the challenge of being like, Okay, I lived in
Speaker 6: a haunted house, and then this other thing happened to me.
Speaker 6: I don't know how to square that away. And I
Speaker 6: recognized that even just having the one experience sounds kind
Speaker 6: of nuts, and then when you add something onto it
Speaker 6: that's just so different, it could sound completely insane. And
Speaker 6: then I started recognizing that other people had the situation too,
Speaker 6: And now there's situations like people like Whitley. Whitley talks
Speaker 6: about his dead wife Ann Streeber commenting on this all
Speaker 6: the time. In terms of the connections between hauntings and
Speaker 6: UFO activity, Joshua Cutchen in recent years wrote a series
Speaker 6: of books called Ecology of Souls that really touches on
Speaker 6: this as well. And there does seem to be some
Speaker 6: profound connection between hauntings and poltergeist activity, UFO activity and
Speaker 6: for lack of a better term, like our lives or
Speaker 6: our deaths. And I don't exactly understand what that all is,
Speaker 6: but that's why we have to keep investigating this. By
Speaker 6: me talking about it. I didn't like talking about this stuff.
Speaker 6: I didn't want to be a public figure. It was
Speaker 6: actually Ralph Blumenthal and Leslie that kind of convinced me
Speaker 6: to actually come forward in a public way with an
Speaker 6: article that was originally going to be published in the
Speaker 6: New York Times back in twenty twenty one and was
Speaker 6: narrowly rejected by some New York Times editors that Ralph
Speaker 6: wrote Ralph Blumenthal and was eventually published in the Debrief.
Speaker 6: Before that, I had no interest in actually kind of
Speaker 6: coming forward myself. I liked being private. I liked being
Speaker 6: quiet about this stuff, and I liked holding experience or
Speaker 6: support groups without putting my name on this publicly.
Speaker 5: A lot of other people in the world probably want
Speaker 5: to keep this private as well, So there are may
Speaker 5: be many other people with these experiences. We just don't
Speaker 5: hear about them because they don't want to do that exactly.
Speaker 6: It happens all the time. It happens all the time,
Speaker 6: and I know people that are engineers, doctors, lawyers, like
Speaker 6: people that have prominent positions in insurance companies, like all
Speaker 6: sorts of folks that have the kinds of credible jobs.
Speaker 6: They need to be seen as sensible, They need to
Speaker 6: be seen as reasonable, rational people.
Speaker 5: And all the therapists say that all the time. They said,
Speaker 5: everybody that comes through here, you wouldn't believe they're celebrities.
Speaker 5: They're doctors, they're lawyers, their firemen.
Speaker 6: Exactly, Musicians, artists, actors. Yeah, it really crosses the gamut.
Speaker 6: And you'd think with some of these, like artists and musicians,
Speaker 6: like some of those are a little bit more able
Speaker 6: to speak about this. And so we have these associations
Speaker 6: of aliens and artists and kind of creative types, and
Speaker 6: there is some fundamental truth to that. But I feel
Speaker 6: if I really added up, I might know just as
Speaker 6: many engineers as I do artists that have had these occurrences.
Speaker 5: There you go, Hey, before we let you go, I
Speaker 5: want to ask you what your thoughts are on disclosure,
Speaker 5: like meaning the big D government disclosure.
Speaker 6: Yeah, disclosure. It's a tricky topic, right because we've seen
Speaker 6: so much movement in the field since the December twenty
Speaker 6: seventeen article Deed Leslie and Ralph and Heleen Cooper wrote
Speaker 6: that really outed a tip and lou Alzando and Chris
Speaker 6: Millan and those amazing cockpit videos that you know, everybody
Speaker 6: in the world has seen it by this point seemingly.
Speaker 6: You know, I was at the Grush hearing last year
Speaker 6: with David Fraver and Ryan Graves. It was a really
Speaker 6: fascinating thing. It really felt like we were seeing a
Speaker 6: new chapter. And I think that that is the And
Speaker 6: at the same time, this is a situation where, if
Speaker 6: we're going to be completely frank, there are people that
Speaker 6: have been managing the top and the bottom of this
Speaker 6: conversation for years, and so there have been people from
Speaker 6: the Pentagon, from the DoD, from other agencies that have
Speaker 6: been managing the skep more skeptical side of things, like
Speaker 6: through Arrow for example, Shawn Kirkpatrick and folks like that
Speaker 6: that seem credible. There are people like Chris Millan that say, oh,
Speaker 6: you know that Era report, that's one of the most disappointing,
Speaker 6: thinnest and least believable documents that I've ever seen in
Speaker 6: my decades within government, in the military and the intelligence comunity,
Speaker 6: and I agree with that, but I also think that,
Speaker 6: you know, people like Shawn Kirkpatrick exist mainly to be
Speaker 6: bad guys, if you want to think about it this way,
Speaker 6: there are aspects of the disclosure movement that we really
Speaker 6: have to be careful about. Because as much as we're
Speaker 6: pushing the ball forward and as much as we're seeing progress,
Speaker 6: you know, through the work of great people like Danny
Speaker 6: Shean and you know the courageous, you know, heroic efforts
Speaker 6: of people like Grush, et cetera, you also have elements
Speaker 6: where there are people that have had a history within
Speaker 6: military and intelligence, even the ones that are advocating for
Speaker 6: more transparency, they're still working for the same departments that
Speaker 6: are putting out these arrow reports, right, And so then
Speaker 6: you have to you have to find yourself in a
Speaker 6: position where it's like, well, why won't this person really
Speaker 6: say why they still work for this department? Why won't
Speaker 6: they just say what they do? Why won't they even
Speaker 6: tell you what their job description really is? And then
Speaker 6: you get to a position where you're like, Okay, well,
Speaker 6: you know there's an aspect to Capital D disclosure that
Speaker 6: is managed and it's a hall of mirrors. That's intentional
Speaker 6: and it's from people managing both sides of the conversation.
Speaker 6: So you've got people like Sean Kirkpatrick that are supposed
Speaker 6: to be the heel. They're supposed to be the bad guy.
Speaker 6: And then you see other people who I won't name,
Speaker 6: that are supposed to look like the Hall Coogans. They're
Speaker 6: supposed to look like the stone called Steve Austin's. And
Speaker 6: what you have to realize is us as a populist.
Speaker 6: They're supposed to be magnetized towards one of those pillars
Speaker 6: or the other pillar. But you're still paying your money
Speaker 6: to the World Wrestling Entertainment Company.
Speaker 5: Right right, it's all suspect. Hey, thanks, Jay, I really
Speaker 5: appreciate you coming on sharing all these insights. It's been
Speaker 5: really great. Do you have a release date for the
Speaker 5: Beyond UFOs and a new reality yet?
Speaker 6: So we're looking at the end of the year, right
Speaker 6: around the holidays, and we'll have a specific date for
Speaker 6: folks just in the few weeks ahead.
Speaker 5: Awesome. Thanks for listening to Beyond Contact. We will be
Speaker 5: back next week with an all new episode. You can
Speaker 5: follow me Captain Ron on Twitter and Instagram at CID
Speaker 5: Underscore Captain Ron. Stay connected by checking out contact intheesert
Speaker 5: dot com. Stay open minded and rational as we explore
Speaker 5: the unknown right here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to
Speaker 5: Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
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