1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:04,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM paranormal 2 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: podcast network. I'll get ready for another episode of Beyond 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: Contact with Captain Wrong. 4 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 2: The thoughts and opinions expressed by the host our thoughts 5 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 2: and opinions only, and do not necessarily reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, 6 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 2: Coast to Coast AM, employees of. 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 3: Premiere Networks, or their sponsors and associates. You are encouraged 8 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 3: to do the proper amount of research yourself, depending on 9 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 3: the subject matter and your needs. 10 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 4: Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week on Beyond Contact, 11 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 4: we'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of 12 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 4: the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from 13 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 4: the newest cases as we talk with the top experts. 14 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 5: Welcome to Beyond Contact. I am Captain Ron, and today 15 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 5: we're going to be speaking with Jay Christopher King. Jay's 16 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 5: the co founder of the Inquire Anomalist conference series. He's 17 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 5: also the co founder of the newly formed production company 18 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 5: on Tocolyps Productions, who are gearing up right now for 19 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 5: the release of their new docuseries called The Beyond UFOs 20 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 5: and a New Reality. Jay is also the co founder 21 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 5: and the director of the Experiencer Group, which is a 22 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 5: private online community dedicated to supporting people who've had anomalous 23 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 5: experiences of all kinds. In fact, Jay does a mini 24 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 5: version of his experience or group sessions live for us 25 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 5: every year at Contact in the Desert, and we really 26 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 5: appreciate him being part of our team. It's great to 27 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 5: see your brother. 28 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 6: How are you, Oh, it's wonderful to be here. I'm 29 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 6: doing great. 30 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 5: How are you doing, Ron, I'm doing good. We're getting 31 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 5: ready to dial in for next year. Fantastic far away, 32 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 5: but it's going to come up quick, you know how. 33 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 6: Oh my gosh, it sure is. Every year gets a 34 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 6: little bit quicker as we get older. 35 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 5: Incredible, it's incredible. It's like this time dilation like an 36 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 5: experiencer would have we're having now, you know what I mean. 37 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 6: It's so true, it's so true. 38 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 5: So man, You've had a lot of experience dealing with 39 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 5: different experiencers, working directly with them, talking with people who 40 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 5: claim to have had firsthand experiences with all sorts of 41 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 5: anomalist phenomena, specifically with regards to those who say have 42 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 5: had a contact with let's call it an alien being. 43 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,239 Speaker 5: I want to ask you do you see the same 44 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 5: sort of accounts over and over. Are there similar tent 45 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 5: poles to each of these accounts or do they vary? 46 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 6: That's a great question, Thanks Ron. They do very somewhat, 47 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 6: but yeah, I have dealt with hundreds of people that 48 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 6: have had either contact events or sightings. With regard to 49 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 6: nhis and UAPs, there are ten poles in terms of 50 00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 6: people seeing grays, either short grays or tall grays. More 51 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 6: people see short grays than tall grays. If they report 52 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 6: having been in kind of like the medical situation or 53 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 6: on a craft or something like that, it seems much 54 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 6: more likely for them to see a tall grade than 55 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 6: a short gray. People report similar medical devices, and some 56 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 6: of those devices are much less reported in media, kind 57 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 6: of don't make it to movies or TV shows and 58 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 6: things like that. As far as other characteristics that are 59 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 6: similar a lot of As you were mentioning, time dilation, 60 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 6: time dilation is an effect that it happens often where 61 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 6: people think that they experience something and it seems like 62 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 6: only maybe four minutes have past, and in fact it 63 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 6: was two or three hours. Or sometimes it happens the 64 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 6: other way, where something seems to have taken a very 65 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 6: long time but it's actually pretty short when they look 66 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 6: at the clock. 67 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 5: It seems to me like in three D life, time 68 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 5: is often distorted with any traumatic experience you ever see, 69 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 5: Like someone has a car accident, it'll be three seconds 70 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 5: for the car accident. But when they describe it and 71 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 5: they'll do a reenactment oftentimes on these shows, and they 72 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 5: said it felt like twenty minutes. I wonder if that's 73 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 5: sort of a similar thing going on, that this is 74 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 5: a traumatic experience, therefore time gets manipulated in our head. 75 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 6: I think that there's a strong correlation there. Yeah, And 76 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 6: I think that that's a really good observation run people 77 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 6: for years have commented on missing time. For example, I 78 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 6: mean that's the title of Bud Hopkins' classic book, one 79 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 6: of the first books on abduction experiences in general, Missing Time, 80 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 6: from nineteen eighty one. The thing is is that people 81 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 6: that have all sorts of trauma have missing time. There's 82 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 6: a little bit of confusion there because for years people 83 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:43,359 Speaker 6: assume that, oh, these powerful beings with their mysterious craft 84 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 6: that looks so weird, they must be able to erase 85 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 6: our memories. But in fact, if we look at medical data, 86 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 6: we can erase our own memories, and we do all 87 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 6: the time when things are just too challenging or too 88 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 6: stressful for us. So there's really, you know, no pun intended, 89 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 6: but a gray area here where we have our own 90 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 6: recycle button, you know. And then there seems to be 91 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 6: a situation where these other beings may be able to 92 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 6: manipulate our memories as well. 93 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 5: I think a lot of these experiencers have dealt with 94 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 5: different phenomenon as well, and I wanted to ask you 95 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 5: if you think they have the experience that they say 96 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 5: it is, or if they could be experiencing something different, 97 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 5: a different type of phenomenon, but they're putting perhaps their 98 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 5: own lens on it, you know, through their own use 99 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 5: of labels or whatever, because we don't know what to 100 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 5: call this stuff because it's all unknown, and going back 101 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 5: through history, we have reports of people saying they saw 102 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 5: fairies come down from the trees, but somebody has a 103 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 5: similar experience today might call it I saw an alien 104 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 5: come down from the sky. What do you think Are 105 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 5: they having the same kind of experience and they're putting 106 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 5: different labels or words on it, or do you think 107 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 5: these are distinct phenomenon. 108 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 6: That's a great question. I think that there is kind 109 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 6: of a vind diagram of these experiences. A very famous 110 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 6: case that comes to mind is one of the key 111 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 6: events in Our Lady of Fatima. The Portuguese sightings from 112 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 6: the early part of the twentieth century. There are thousands 113 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 6: and thousands of people that had these sightings that were 114 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 6: in Portugal and would see this luminous spinning plate looking 115 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 6: sun moving around the sky before these children would see 116 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 6: these beings. There's a lot of challenging interpretations of that 117 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 6: particular case because even among the three children that would 118 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 6: have this sighting of what seemed like it was maybe 119 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 6: the Virgin Mary. That's kind of the popular conception of it. 120 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 6: When you actually look at the descriptions and Portuguese of 121 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 6: like what this woman looked like. She was actually very small, 122 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 6: she didn't have the traditional appearance of Mary per se, 123 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 6: and the smallest child actually said that the being wasn't 124 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 6: a woman at all. It sometimes appeared to be like 125 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 6: a non human. 126 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 5: Wow. Right, fascinating and from that long ago, see that's right, 127 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 5: that's example, Jade, nice, pull that out of your brain. 128 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 5: That's very good man. 129 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 6: People that would gather for these sightings, they would sometimes 130 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 6: hear something that sounded like a swarm of bees. That's 131 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,559 Speaker 6: another kind of secondary phenomenon that people report in close 132 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 6: contact experiences with UFOs as well. Some of the children 133 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 6: at the Rua Aerial School sighting in nineteen ninety four 134 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 6: reported a very similar sound seventy seven years later. All right, okay, 135 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 6: what does this tell us about perception? And is there 136 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 6: something about our brains that kind of like filter this 137 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 6: in in a certain way that starts to adopt certain 138 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 6: characteristics Or if we see something that's that strange or 139 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 6: is coming in from what have you, another dimension outside 140 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 6: of our typical realm of perception, whatever that is, is 141 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 6: there something in our brains or are in our sensory 142 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 6: organs that bring in some of these aspects. 143 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 5: Right? 144 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 6: For example, Nick Cook, who I'm sure you know Nick 145 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 6: Cook calls these figures rogue icons, and I like that 146 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 6: where he doesn't call it, you know, a religious figure, 147 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 6: he doesn't call it a gray he doesn't try to 148 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 6: put a name on it. He calls it a rogue icon, 149 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 6: almost as if it's like a chess piece that's like 150 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 6: coming in from some other realm and that we just 151 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 6: need to have kind of like a more general placeholder 152 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 6: term for something like that. 153 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 5: I totally agree with him. I think that's part of 154 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 5: the problem. And you can imagine how back then at 155 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 5: Fatima it was probably a much more religious society, and 156 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 5: they framed it immediately. They might, well, it must be Mary, 157 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 5: where today you might jump to it might must be 158 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 5: an alien. Right. Yeah, I get angry because people often 159 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 5: jump to it must be an alien way prematurely from 160 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 5: my view. Let me ask you this, Jay, do you 161 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 5: do you think that any of these stories you hear 162 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,839 Speaker 5: have more of a three D terrestrial explanation, like maybe 163 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 5: it's a misunderstood dream state or misidentification of a projection 164 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 5: on a wall, or somebody's imagination kind of getting away 165 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 5: from them. What do you think I think that does happen. 166 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 6: You know, it is important to remember that that some 167 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 6: people really do have very severe mental illnesses, and that 168 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 6: some people you know, suffer from delusions and they can 169 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 6: be perceptual hallucinations, and that some people, especially maybe if 170 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 6: they have profound drug or alcohol issues, especially you know, 171 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 6: drug issues. I don't know many people that drink and 172 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 6: then see things, you know, that's not usually a situation 173 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 6: that happens like that, But some drugs will produce hallucinatory effects. 174 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 6: Of course, you know, I'm not a pharmacologist, but I 175 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 6: would imagine that there are some prescribed drugs that might 176 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 6: lead someone towards more hallucinations than others. And at the 177 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 6: same time, there is such a uniformity and going back 178 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 6: decades and like we're talking about even centuries with similar 179 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,839 Speaker 6: phenomena that we just want to put a name on. 180 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 6: Luminous shield shaped craft coming down from the sky. I mean, 181 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 6: this goes back to the Roman era, it goes back 182 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 6: beyond that even and there's something to it. You know, 183 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 6: if we look in old Celtic and fairy lore, there's 184 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,199 Speaker 6: a lot of tales of strange beings and ships coming 185 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:22,719 Speaker 6: out of the water, and that really mirror a very contemporary, 186 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 6: almost like a fashionable thing to talk about these days 187 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 6: within UFOs, which is usocases and trans medium craft. 188 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 5: Look how you said they called it shields because it 189 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 5: looked like a shield. That was their frame of reference. 190 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 5: And I think it's been going on throughout time that 191 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 5: this is such an unknown thing for the human experience 192 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 5: that we don't know how to describe it because we 193 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 5: don't have the vocabulary for it. When we come back 194 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 5: We're going to talk to Jay about what he thinks 195 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 5: some of these experiences may be originating from you're listening 196 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 5: to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast 197 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 5: AM Paranormal podcast network. 198 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 3: My name is Mark Rawlins, president of Paranormal Day dot Com. 199 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 3: Over five years ago, George Nori approached me with a 200 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 3: unique concept, a dating site for people searching for someone 201 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 3: with interest in UFOs, ghosts, bigfoot, conspiracy theories, and the paranormal. 202 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 3: From that, Paranormal Day dot Com was born. It's a 203 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 3: unique site for unique people and it's free to join 204 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 3: to look around. If you want to upgrade and enjoy 205 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 3: more of our great features, use promo code George for 206 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 3: a great discount, so check it out. 207 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 7: You got nothing to lose Paranormal Day dot com. 208 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 8: Hey the Coast to Coast Go Tom dot com for 209 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 8: more information. 210 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 1: The Internet is an extraordinary resource that links our children 211 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: to a world of information, experiences, and ideas and also 212 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: can expose them to risk. Teach your children the basic 213 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: safety rules of the virtual world. Our children are everything, 214 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: Do everything for them. 215 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 5: We are back on Beyond Contact. Jay. Let me ask 216 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 5: you this about the Experiencer Group. What are people looking for? 217 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,199 Speaker 5: Do you think when they come there, is it validation 218 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 5: that this might be real? Are they looking for how 219 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 5: to stop it? Are they looking for explanations? What are 220 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 5: they looking for? 221 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 6: All of the above. Absolutely, it's a great question. Some 222 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 6: people do come to the Experiencer Group for validation, just 223 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 6: to frame it up. The Experiencer Group again, it's a 224 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 6: private member site online. You can find it through tg 225 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 6: members dot com, dedicated to support curiosity and community for 226 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 6: those who've lived through anomalous events of any and all kinds. 227 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 6: So that could be UAP encounters, non human intelligence, near 228 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 6: death experiences, out of body experiences, precognition. There's people that 229 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 6: have seen cryptids, hauntings, all manner of anomalous experiences. Because 230 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 6: what we find in the group is that, you know, 231 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 6: if somebody's had one form of anomalous experience, it's actually 232 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 6: somewhat likely that eventually, later down the line, they'll report 233 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 6: something else. Maybe that's because we don't have great definitions 234 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 6: for what this really is, or even when something really 235 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 6: begins and when something ends as an event, because often 236 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 6: when we really dig into details, there's precursor events or 237 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 6: things that are kind of after effects of these situations 238 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 6: that look like other anomalous events that might be really 239 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 6: tied to that kind of core event itself. People will 240 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 6: often report before UFO sidings like pultugeist activity or right afterwards. 241 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 6: That's a really kind of inconvenient truth. Absolutely, and people 242 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 6: have reported that, like George Knapp and Colin Kella hur 243 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 6: talked about in that in Skinwalk of the Pentagon, and 244 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 6: there are other works. There does seem to be a 245 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 6: tie with what people think of as pultugeist activity with 246 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,239 Speaker 6: UFO activity, And of course historically we look at poultugeist 247 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 6: activity as being close to ghosts or people that have died, 248 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 6: but we don't actually know that to be the case. 249 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 6: We don't know that to be literally true. Pulture geised 250 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 6: activity does seem to be sometimes tied to a specific place, 251 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 6: a certain physical location or a certain house, and we 252 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 6: assume that has to do with the life of somebody beforehand, 253 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 6: but we don't know that maybe a leap that we 254 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 6: make exactly, Yes, absolutely, and so that's a leap that 255 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 6: we make. And it's also a leap to suggest that 256 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 6: just because something an object moves around or disappears and 257 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 6: reappears in a situation that seems to be connected with 258 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 6: a quote unquote haunting. We don't necessarily know that that's 259 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 6: a ghost of an actual being, and we don't know 260 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 6: why that happens in general, and why that can't be 261 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 6: a transferable phenomenon or something that also happens in situations 262 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 6: like in UAP cases where some craft or some being 263 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 6: seems to blip in from out of nowhere. Those kinds 264 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 6: of biases tend to limit reporting because, you know, when 265 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 6: somebody sees something like this, like a ghost or a 266 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 6: UFO or a gray or what have you, there's often 267 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 6: a form of self censorship that happens because they don't 268 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 6: want to, you know, seem crazy. But then that will 269 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 6: limit the data that you get. For example, with grays, 270 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 6: sometimes they appear to be naked, right, they don't appear 271 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 6: to have genitals, but they appear to be naked. But 272 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 6: to prior generations that often seemed like too far. For 273 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 6: some reason, there's a weird being. It looked really strange, 274 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 6: and by the way, it was naked, and we all 275 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 6: get it. 276 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 5: That's the fact that there's this bug looking thing in 277 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 5: my room, but oh my god, naked. Yeah, I even 278 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 5: think of that. Yeah, right, yeah, but. 279 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 6: There's so many cases where they'll come out later and say, 280 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 6: like it was actually naked. We need to hear what 281 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 6: actually happened. We need to hear those actual details so 282 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 6: that a we can corroborate these cases amongst each other, 283 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 6: but also so we can figure out what the heck 284 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 6: is actually going on exactly. 285 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 5: Let's talk about that. What are some of the options 286 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 5: of what could be happening here with regarding the visitation 287 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 5: of any of these non human intelligences. To me, it 288 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 5: seems like years ago it was a very straightforward topic, 289 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 5: but now it seems like there's all these different possible modalities, 290 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 5: these different schools of thought. Are they coming from across 291 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 5: the galaxy? Are they interstellar? Are they interdimensional? Are they 292 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 5: ultra terrestrial or crypto terrestrial? You know the John Keele 293 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 5: idea that a species evolved alongside of humans but it 294 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 5: remained hidden with their own technology. Or are the extra 295 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 5: tempestrial the doctor Michael Master's idea that they're from the 296 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 5: future and they're coming back to see how we developed. 297 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 5: There's so many of these things. What do you think 298 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 5: could be happening? 299 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 6: I think it could be all of the above. Yeah, 300 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 6: I think it could be any and all. I mean, 301 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 6: I love John Keel's work. You know, there's a lot 302 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 6: of material in there that goes back decades that we're 303 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 6: still we're still behind, you know, the central conversations about 304 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 6: UFOs are still sometimes years behind. But Keil was talking 305 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 6: about forty eight plus years ago. 306 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 5: I was just going to say here that you were 307 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 5: saying the different ways of perception right there. You know, 308 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 5: maybe there's a way we're just not fully seeing these 309 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 5: non human entities. Just a few weeks ago, we did 310 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 5: a show on October fourth on Perspective and one of 311 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 5: the examples we used was what if you lived next 312 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 5: door to a radio station and it had a giant 313 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 5: antenna in the front yard. Even though you live right 314 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 5: next door and they're blasting out all this information, you 315 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 5: can't hear it. You need a receiver. So let's say 316 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 5: you even do have a receiver. Beyond that, you've got 317 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 5: to tune it into the exact right frequency that they're broadcasting. 318 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 5: If you're off by one millimeter, you still can't sit 319 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 5: here what they're saying. Maybe these other entities are just 320 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:53,919 Speaker 5: a little bit off and we're just not able to 321 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 5: perceive them. 322 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 6: Yet absolutely Yeah, there's a term in semiotics that gets 323 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 6: at this, and something that's often used by biologists and 324 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 6: even by anthropologists. It's called umvelt and it's a German 325 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:11,360 Speaker 6: term that means environment, specifically about the specific way organisms 326 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 6: of a particular species experience the world, which is dependent 327 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 6: on their sensory organs and perceptual systems. We cover this 328 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 6: in our upcoming docu series that there's a certain kind 329 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 6: of tick and this tick can only detect a certain 330 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 6: form of butaric acid that animals secrete on their skin 331 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 6: like we do. It can sense changes in heat, so 332 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 6: it can figure out and drop down or move over 333 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,719 Speaker 6: to an animal and begin the process of sucking their blood. 334 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,439 Speaker 6: But you know, think about all the different kinds of 335 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 6: data that it doesn't get when the tick is, you know, 336 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 6: sucking blood from your artron. It doesn't know that you 337 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 6: produce contact in the desert. It doesn't know that you 338 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,199 Speaker 6: do a podcast. It doesn't know what a podcast is. 339 00:18:54,600 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 6: It has no idea. Yeah, it has no idea. And like, similarly, 340 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 6: like we could be suffering. Similarly, infrared technology is more 341 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 6: available to the masses. More people are seeing UFOs in 342 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 6: the sky. You know, there are a lot more situations 343 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 6: like infrared, that we could still be on the precipice 344 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 6: of even knowing about where these other beings may be hiding. 345 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 6: We could be on the precipice of these kinds of 346 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 6: discoveries like infrared that could point us towards where some 347 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 6: of these beings are hiding. 348 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 5: Absolutely, we could be just that one millimeter off. I 349 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 5: absolutely believe that, you know, there's so many new ways 350 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 5: of thinking about this topic. Jay, Earlier we were saying, 351 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 5: how we make this leap that ghosts are dead people, 352 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 5: or you know, we make this connection. There's also this 353 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 5: question of our UFOs and aliens even tied together. Someone 354 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 5: said this to me recently, and it actually may have 355 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 5: been Whity as a matter of fact, that it's possible 356 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:59,679 Speaker 5: that these visitation experiences don't necessarily have anything to do 357 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 5: with UFO craft per se. What do you think about that? 358 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 6: I think that that's really really interesting, And I've heard 359 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 6: similar possibilities from Whitley himself and other experiencers that there 360 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 6: are only limited cases where people see a craft and 361 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 6: a non human intelligence like a gray for example, or 362 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 6: you know, some people report manted beings or Nordics or 363 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 6: other kind of more marginal figures. But it's often the 364 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 6: case that when people see one of these beings, what 365 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 6: they're more seeing is, you know, something showing up in 366 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 6: their living room or their bedroom. Right, there are a 367 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 6: lot of cases. Historically, we don't get many anymore, and 368 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 6: I think it's important to also name this that the 369 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 6: data does seem to suggest that there is a high 370 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 6: point of abduction cases and similar cases. They're really peaked 371 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 6: in the eighties and nineties and then seem to kind 372 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 6: of trail off. There are still people reporting situations like this, 373 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 6: but the case numbers have fallen off quite a bit, 374 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 6: and there's a lot of kind of debate about whether 375 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 6: that's people still being quite about things. But the people 376 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 6: that are still reporting this generally it started for them 377 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 6: in the eighties and nineties, and it seems to be 378 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,479 Speaker 6: kind of more like a checkup rather than like a 379 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 6: new situation. 380 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 5: Right, And we wondered, you know, does it mean that 381 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 5: they're getting visited less or it seems like it's a 382 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 5: more open environment to come out with this information. Now 383 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 5: you think the number would go think, but maybe whoever's 384 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 5: doing this got what they needed and they don't need 385 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,199 Speaker 5: to do it as often we don't know. It's so 386 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 5: hard to talk about these things because they're all unknowns. Absolutely, 387 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 5: we got to take a break there. Jay. When we 388 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 5: come back, we're going to talk to Jay about his 389 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 5: new docuseries on the UFO and alien subject and how 390 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 5: it takes a different approach than we've seen in the past. 391 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 5: You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast 392 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 5: to Coast AM paranormal podcast network. 393 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: The Coast to Coast AM mobile app is here and 394 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 1: waiting for you right now, and with the app, you 395 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: can hear classic shows from the past seven years, listen 396 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: to the current live show, and get access to the 397 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: Artbell Vault, where you can listen to uninterrupted audio. 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That's Coast to Coast am dot com. 403 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:45,679 Speaker 5: The four the artbel Vault has classic audio waiting for 404 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 5: you now. 405 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,479 Speaker 8: Go to Coast to Coast am dot com. 406 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 5: Four details. 407 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 9: You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am 408 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 9: para normal podcast network. 409 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 5: Check out all our. 410 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:08,199 Speaker 9: Shows on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you 411 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 9: find your favorite shows. 412 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 5: We are back on Beyond Contact. I am Captain Ron 413 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 5: and we're talking with Jay King about his new docuseries. So, Jay, 414 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 5: I like the name for your production company, even though 415 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 5: I can't pronounce it. But it's on Tocolypse, which your 416 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 5: site defines as an unveiling of a new reality, often 417 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 5: leading to a state of internal chaos and a profound 418 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 5: paradigm shift in philosophical and existential frameworks. We probably do 419 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 5: need a new way to look at this topic, as 420 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 5: we've been discussing here. I mean, I think one of 421 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:51,160 Speaker 5: the biggest problems today is that this topic is generally 422 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,159 Speaker 5: portrayed in the media incorrectly. They treat this topic like 423 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 5: a genre, and they don't often take it right from 424 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 5: the actual experiencers, as we've seen in many films time 425 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 5: and time again. You've worked in TV production for years. 426 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 5: Why can't Hollywood actually tell us the experience or story 427 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 5: exactly how it happened. Isn't it incredible enough that this 428 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 5: guy met somebody from another world? 429 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 6: I really appreciate this question. Thanks Ron. It's historically been 430 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 6: an extraordinary challenge for Hollywood writers, directors, et cetera to 431 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 6: get it right. I mean, one of the closest examples 432 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 6: that you can find is Close Encounters of the Third 433 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 6: kind was Steven Spielberg. There you had a very close 434 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 6: case that had a lot of the high strangeness elements 435 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 6: and kind of this strange other phenomena that surround these situations. 436 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 6: I think one of the biggest problems here is that 437 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 6: writers in Hollywood and in TV in general, and in 438 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 6: movies tend to get a little bit lazy. In formulaic 439 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 6: they want a movie to obey a three acts structure. 440 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 6: They want to get in and out in ninety to 441 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,919 Speaker 6: one hundred and ten minutes, and similarly with TV shows, 442 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 6: they wanted to make sense in twenty three minutes or 443 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 6: forty four minutes with ad breaks. And that can be really, 444 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 6: really challenging for some of these stories because often with experiencers, 445 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 6: they can't really tell you where something began or where's 446 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 6: something ended. They might only have fragmentary memories of something 447 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 6: like this, or they might kind of associate development where 448 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 6: it's like, well, this happened, but that seemed to really 449 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 6: be high strangeness synchronicity where I was having a telepathic 450 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 6: contact and it was referencing this weird dream I had 451 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 6: twenty years ago. These are the kind of details that 452 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 6: when you add them together, they present this kind of 453 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 6: absurd quality that Jacques Vilat talked about a lot in 454 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,880 Speaker 6: books like Messengers of Deception. There's a co creative element, 455 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 6: and there seems to be an element where some of 456 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 6: these intelligences are able to access our own personal history, 457 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 6: our own personal symbology, and our own recollection of time, 458 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 6: regardless of its accuracy or not. That seems to be 459 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 6: the land that some of these beings can live in. 460 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 6: And TV and movie we are watching conversations happen, we're 461 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 6: watching activity occur. Much of the land of high strangeness 462 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 6: lives in the world of the symbolic and lives within 463 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 6: the realm of referencing our own personal histories that take 464 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 6: a lot kind of more backstory than a ninety minute 465 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 6: feature can account for. There are kind of other inconvenient 466 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 6: elements that does seem to be like a corollary maybe 467 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 6: between for example, out of body experiences and abduction experiences. 468 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 6: People often are talking about something like a subtle realm, 469 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,239 Speaker 6: some like non ordinary state of perception that exists in 470 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 6: an out of body situation where for some reason, somebody's 471 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 6: consciousness is able to temporarily relocate outside their body. There 472 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 6: are situations like sleep paralysis where people will report like 473 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 6: a weird buzzing and that their body's frozen, but they 474 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 6: have perceptual awareness and sometimes they see beings or have 475 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 6: experiences or able to leave their body in a situation 476 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 6: like that. However, they're tethering it to what it's called 477 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 6: sleep paralysis. But the reality is that we don't even 478 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 6: really know what sleep paralysis is. We'll use it as 479 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 6: a blanket concept for a whole range of situations. 480 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 5: Remember that guy that came up with the god helmet. Yeah, 481 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 5: you could trigger a certain part of your brain and 482 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 5: you would see a bright light in beings that very 483 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 5: much replicated the abduction experience. So there may be some 484 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 5: other thing happening here. 485 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 6: That's right, And so you know, there are some theories 486 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 6: about like does out of body experience give you access 487 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 6: to this kind of more liminal or more perceptually challenging 488 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 6: state where these beings more naturally reside And I don't 489 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,199 Speaker 6: know that to be the case. I'm not sure that 490 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 6: grays just perpetually reside in a realm that's just adjacent 491 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 6: to us. It's a convenient theory, like the convenient theory 492 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 6: of them flying in ships from another world. We have 493 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 6: all these ideas, and they may all be true. They 494 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,360 Speaker 6: may also be a little bit wrong. We often think 495 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 6: about the misinformation aspect that we receive from our own 496 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,719 Speaker 6: government or the military industrial complex, but we sometimes avoid 497 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 6: or forget the aspect where we might be receiving a 498 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 6: ton of misinformation from these other beings themselves. 499 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 5: Even if you talk to experi answers, they don't know. 500 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 5: We're all speculating and guessing, So this is very difficult. 501 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 5: You guys seem to have taken a little bit of 502 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 5: a different approach on this topic with this new company, 503 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 5: in this new docuseries. Tell me how that how you 504 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 5: have a different approach. 505 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 6: Thanks so much for the question. 506 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 5: Ron. 507 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 6: With the beyond UFOs and a New Reality, we were 508 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 6: really looking at what has happened in TV recently in 509 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 6: recent years, and there are often series that are very 510 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 6: grounded and have more kind of credible experts talking about 511 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 6: a situation looking at it. For a writer from a 512 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 6: director's perspective. They're looking at like, how do I prove 513 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 6: this case to somebody that doesn't leave in this And 514 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 6: then on the other hand, you have shows that are 515 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 6: completely ungrounded that you know, we'll bring in anybody and 516 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 6: say like, oh, this must be aliens. That's aliens. You know, 517 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 6: the researchers themselves don't have much credibility to them. They've 518 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 6: just been in the field for a while. Those shows 519 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 6: can be great as well, they can be a lot 520 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 6: of fun, But we're trying to carve like a different 521 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,959 Speaker 6: path through the middle where we wanted to unshackle credible 522 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 6: researchers and kind of start with the general premise that yes, 523 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 6: there's fundamental reality here. Now let's have deeper discussions about 524 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 6: what that means and so being able to really present 525 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 6: hypotheses that go beyond what we normally see on television 526 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 6: where it's like, okay, maybe they aren't extraterrestrial, maybe or 527 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 6: maybe they sometimes are, but like, let's talk about the 528 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 6: crypto terrestrial hypothesis, let's talk about extra tempstrials, let's talk 529 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 6: about all this stuff. Where do we go from there 530 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,959 Speaker 6: and what does that mean about the nature of our 531 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 6: reality itself? 532 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 5: The process of doing that will help us flush some 533 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 5: of this out. And I wanted to ask you, why 534 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 5: do you think that most people don't seem to take 535 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 5: many of these first person cases, these accounts seriously? Why 536 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 5: do you think people struggle to accept this? 537 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 6: I think some people struggle to accept it because it 538 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 6: just never touches their lives. I understand how many of the. 539 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 5: Things that don't touch my life that I accept. 540 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 6: Sure, I've never been to Russia, but I trust that 541 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 6: it exists, right. But it's challenging for people. I think 542 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 6: partially because I mean John Keel. We talked about John 543 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 6: Keel a little bit earlier. John Keel in the Eighth Tower, 544 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 6: he writes about how I'm going to paraphrase here, that 545 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 6: about ten to fifteen percent of the populace is able 546 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 6: to receive information like this, meaning the actual anomalous events themselves, 547 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 6: and then that other people are dealing with it secondhand, 548 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 6: that core kind of ten to fifteen percent are really 549 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 6: dealing with it on a more regular basis, and that 550 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 6: it might have to do more with like difference in 551 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 6: perception between one person in another and then other people 552 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 6: might have a one off event. So I think that 553 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 6: part of it comes down to the idea that, like 554 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 6: something that seems so fantastic and unbelievable, some people think 555 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 6: that that could only happen once, as if it would 556 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 6: be like the equivalent of getting struck by lightning. But 557 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 6: for example, a haunted house really exists, and that ghosts 558 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 6: really kind of pervade that space, or that Poltugeist activity 559 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 6: could be happening on a regular basis, then we have 560 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 6: to confront the possibility or the probability that these things 561 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 6: might happen much more often for certain people than others. 562 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 5: But I'm curious as to why people like a vy Lobe, 563 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 5: John Mack and their respected worldwide then they talk about 564 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 5: this topic and suddenly they don't know what they're talking about. 565 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 5: It doesn't seem right to dismiss these guys. 566 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 6: I completely agree with you. I mean, John Mack, I'm 567 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 6: really glad you brought up doctor mac so he was 568 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 6: kind of like the perfect person as the head of 569 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 6: psychiatry at Harvard, who is an expert on nightmares and 570 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 6: dream states and childhood psychology to be then looking at 571 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 6: cases of what we're thought of as abductions. 572 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 5: If we want to study these people and say, oh, 573 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 5: my god, these people are crazy. Well, let's bring in 574 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 5: the top guy in the world in psychology and have 575 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 5: him look at this. He does, then he comes to 576 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 5: the conclusion that they're not having a delusion, that it's 577 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 5: something else. Why can't we accept this expert's opinion. That's 578 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 5: what frustrates me. 579 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 6: There's the truism within science that science progresses one funeral 580 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 6: at a time, and sometimes that just has to be 581 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 6: the case. That as we've been talking about here, and 582 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 6: as I've talked with you in the pastor on, there 583 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 6: is so much academic stigma. Avlobe faces it as well. 584 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 5: It's incredible not to mention all of the military witnesses 585 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 5: that we haven't even touched on. These are highly decorated, respectable, 586 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 5: trustworthy guys. We're going to take another break there. When 587 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 5: we come back, we're going to talk to Jay more 588 00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 5: about this topic and get into his personal experiences. Listening 589 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 5: to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast 590 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 5: am Paranormal podcast network. Hey, it's the Wizard of Weird 591 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 5: Joshua P. 592 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 6: Warren. 593 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 5: Don't forget to check out my show Strange Things. 594 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 10: Each week as I bring you the world of the 595 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 10: truly amazing and bizarre right here on the iHeartRadio and 596 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 10: Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 597 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 5: Hey, it's producer Tom and you're right where you need 598 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 5: to be. This is the iHeart Radio and Coast to 599 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 5: Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 600 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 8: Hey, this is George Nap and you're listening to the 601 00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 8: iHeart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 602 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 5: We are back on Beyond Contact. We're having a great 603 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 5: conversation today with Jay Christopher King. Jay, you've had your 604 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 5: own anomalous experiences. How did these experiences change your life? 605 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 6: Thanks for asking. Ron. You know, I have my own 606 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 6: personal biases in terms of like what I really pay 607 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 6: attention to. I think a lot of people, if they 608 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,719 Speaker 6: know my name, am usually tied to UFOs and that's 609 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 6: for good reason though. Also when I was a kid, 610 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 6: I lived in a house that was thought of as haunted, 611 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 6: starting when I was about six years old in Mishawaka, Indiana. 612 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 6: There's a lot of strange phenomena there. Poultrygeist activity, strange 613 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:49,320 Speaker 6: shadows on the walls, lights going on and off, apparitions. 614 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 6: My father, who is a retired electrical engineer, really wanted 615 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 6: it to be an electrical problem. It still didn't account 616 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 6: for the strange shadows, the apparition in the Poultergeist activity. 617 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 6: And then when he did check the electrical systems in 618 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 6: the house, the lights going on and off didn't have 619 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:12,839 Speaker 6: a conventional explanation either. My mom, I, my little baby sister, 620 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 6: my dad were all deeply troubled by this phenomenon that 621 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 6: was happening in the house. Then several years later, I 622 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:25,399 Speaker 6: did have an experience in Hanover, Indiana. After my mom 623 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,240 Speaker 6: and dad divorced, my mom remarried, we moved down there 624 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 6: and I had a typical abduction experience. I was in 625 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 6: my bed and there were two short grays passed the 626 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 6: foot of my bed, one of them I was about nine. 627 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 6: I was about nine nine and a half years old. 628 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,879 Speaker 6: There were two grays passed the foot of my bed, 629 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 6: and one of them had his feet on the ground, 630 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 6: and one of them seemed to be levitating slightly. I 631 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 6: don't know how I was levitating. I didn't even have 632 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:56,440 Speaker 6: like a conception of what these beings were. You know, 633 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,399 Speaker 6: this is the eighties. What people would have known from 634 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,439 Speaker 6: a gray before for that point would have been close 635 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 6: encounters Widley's book may have just come out, But again 636 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 6: I was a small child. I wouldn't have known about that. 637 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 5: And you do hear about the levitation thing. Even Calvin 638 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 5: Parker thought that they didn't walk, that they levitated. There's 639 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 5: many examples, that's right. 640 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 6: And so I saw it levitating, and that one was 641 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,359 Speaker 6: holding a strange like rod in its hand, like a 642 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 6: metallic rod. Initially I wasn't scared. I was just like 643 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 6: really interested. I didn't know what these things were. But 644 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 6: then they didn't really engage with me. There was no smiles, 645 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 6: there were no greetings, there was no welcome. The one 646 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 6: on the ground started walking towards me in kind of 647 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 6: a hurried manner that looked almost marionette like like. Its 648 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 6: movement was freaky, and the other one that was levitating 649 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,400 Speaker 6: raised that weird rod towards me. I don't remember what 650 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 6: happened after that, so it was a very very short situation, 651 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 6: but it ingrained in my memory. Of course, there are 652 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,479 Speaker 6: a few other situations that happened just after that, within 653 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,720 Speaker 6: that next period of time, where I saw a singular 654 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 6: being like that. Again, you know, again, I don't know 655 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,359 Speaker 6: where these beings come from. I don't know why they 656 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,400 Speaker 6: do what they do. I don't know why these events 657 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 6: happened so often in the eighties and nineties and then 658 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,919 Speaker 6: some before that, but those grays showing up less over time, 659 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 6: since I just know that I have the memory of 660 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,400 Speaker 6: it happening. I remember it happening at the time. I 661 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,840 Speaker 6: think it's fascinating. And for a lot of years I 662 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 6: had the challenge of being like, Okay, I lived in 663 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 6: a haunted house, and then this other thing happened to me. 664 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:37,840 Speaker 6: I don't know how to square that away. And I 665 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 6: recognized that even just having the one experience sounds kind 666 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 6: of nuts, and then when you add something onto it 667 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,840 Speaker 6: that's just so different, it could sound completely insane. And 668 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 6: then I started recognizing that other people had the situation too, 669 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,919 Speaker 6: And now there's situations like people like Whitley. Whitley talks 670 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 6: about his dead wife Ann Streeber commenting on this all 671 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 6: the time. In terms of the connections between hauntings and 672 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 6: UFO activity, Joshua Cutchen in recent years wrote a series 673 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,840 Speaker 6: of books called Ecology of Souls that really touches on 674 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 6: this as well. And there does seem to be some 675 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 6: profound connection between hauntings and poltergeist activity, UFO activity and 676 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,520 Speaker 6: for lack of a better term, like our lives or 677 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 6: our deaths. And I don't exactly understand what that all is, 678 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 6: but that's why we have to keep investigating this. By 679 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 6: me talking about it. I didn't like talking about this stuff. 680 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 6: I didn't want to be a public figure. It was 681 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 6: actually Ralph Blumenthal and Leslie that kind of convinced me 682 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 6: to actually come forward in a public way with an 683 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 6: article that was originally going to be published in the 684 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 6: New York Times back in twenty twenty one and was 685 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 6: narrowly rejected by some New York Times editors that Ralph 686 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 6: wrote Ralph Blumenthal and was eventually published in the Debrief. 687 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 6: Before that, I had no interest in actually kind of 688 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,279 Speaker 6: coming forward myself. I liked being private. I liked being 689 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,759 Speaker 6: quiet about this stuff, and I liked holding experience or 690 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,360 Speaker 6: support groups without putting my name on this publicly. 691 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:13,799 Speaker 5: A lot of other people in the world probably want 692 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 5: to keep this private as well, So there are may 693 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 5: be many other people with these experiences. We just don't 694 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,840 Speaker 5: hear about them because they don't want to do that exactly. 695 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 6: It happens all the time. It happens all the time, 696 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 6: and I know people that are engineers, doctors, lawyers, like 697 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,719 Speaker 6: people that have prominent positions in insurance companies, like all 698 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,800 Speaker 6: sorts of folks that have the kinds of credible jobs. 699 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 6: They need to be seen as sensible, They need to 700 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 6: be seen as reasonable, rational people. 701 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 5: And all the therapists say that all the time. They said, 702 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 5: everybody that comes through here, you wouldn't believe they're celebrities. 703 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,760 Speaker 5: They're doctors, they're lawyers, their firemen. 704 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 6: Exactly, Musicians, artists, actors. Yeah, it really crosses the gamut. 705 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 6: And you'd think with some of these, like artists and musicians, 706 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 6: like some of those are a little bit more able 707 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 6: to speak about this. And so we have these associations 708 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,400 Speaker 6: of aliens and artists and kind of creative types, and 709 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 6: there is some fundamental truth to that. But I feel 710 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,359 Speaker 6: if I really added up, I might know just as 711 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,400 Speaker 6: many engineers as I do artists that have had these occurrences. 712 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 5: There you go, Hey, before we let you go, I 713 00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:23,160 Speaker 5: want to ask you what your thoughts are on disclosure, 714 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 5: like meaning the big D government disclosure. 715 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 6: Yeah, disclosure. It's a tricky topic, right because we've seen 716 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,760 Speaker 6: so much movement in the field since the December twenty 717 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,320 Speaker 6: seventeen article Deed Leslie and Ralph and Heleen Cooper wrote 718 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 6: that really outed a tip and lou Alzando and Chris 719 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 6: Millan and those amazing cockpit videos that you know, everybody 720 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,160 Speaker 6: in the world has seen it by this point seemingly. 721 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:50,799 Speaker 6: You know, I was at the Grush hearing last year 722 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,360 Speaker 6: with David Fraver and Ryan Graves. It was a really 723 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,640 Speaker 6: fascinating thing. It really felt like we were seeing a 724 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,840 Speaker 6: new chapter. And I think that that is the And 725 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,239 Speaker 6: at the same time, this is a situation where, if 726 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,040 Speaker 6: we're going to be completely frank, there are people that 727 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,840 Speaker 6: have been managing the top and the bottom of this 728 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,760 Speaker 6: conversation for years, and so there have been people from 729 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,719 Speaker 6: the Pentagon, from the DoD, from other agencies that have 730 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,840 Speaker 6: been managing the skep more skeptical side of things, like 731 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,799 Speaker 6: through Arrow for example, Shawn Kirkpatrick and folks like that 732 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,719 Speaker 6: that seem credible. There are people like Chris Millan that say, oh, 733 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,440 Speaker 6: you know that Era report, that's one of the most disappointing, 734 00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,759 Speaker 6: thinnest and least believable documents that I've ever seen in 735 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,760 Speaker 6: my decades within government, in the military and the intelligence comunity, 736 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,600 Speaker 6: and I agree with that, but I also think that, 737 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:46,719 Speaker 6: you know, people like Shawn Kirkpatrick exist mainly to be 738 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,640 Speaker 6: bad guys, if you want to think about it this way, 739 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 6: there are aspects of the disclosure movement that we really 740 00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,879 Speaker 6: have to be careful about. Because as much as we're 741 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 6: pushing the ball forward and as much as we're seeing progress, 742 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 6: you know, through the work of great people like Danny 743 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,280 Speaker 6: Shean and you know the courageous, you know, heroic efforts 744 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,480 Speaker 6: of people like Grush, et cetera, you also have elements 745 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,880 Speaker 6: where there are people that have had a history within 746 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,799 Speaker 6: military and intelligence, even the ones that are advocating for 747 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:21,400 Speaker 6: more transparency, they're still working for the same departments that 748 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:25,200 Speaker 6: are putting out these arrow reports, right, And so then 749 00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,279 Speaker 6: you have to you have to find yourself in a 750 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 6: position where it's like, well, why won't this person really 751 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,960 Speaker 6: say why they still work for this department? Why won't 752 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,879 Speaker 6: they just say what they do? Why won't they even 753 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,399 Speaker 6: tell you what their job description really is? And then 754 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 6: you get to a position where you're like, Okay, well, 755 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 6: you know there's an aspect to Capital D disclosure that 756 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,600 Speaker 6: is managed and it's a hall of mirrors. That's intentional 757 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,880 Speaker 6: and it's from people managing both sides of the conversation. 758 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 6: So you've got people like Sean Kirkpatrick that are supposed 759 00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 6: to be the heel. They're supposed to be the bad guy. 760 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,120 Speaker 6: And then you see other people who I won't name, 761 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,080 Speaker 6: that are supposed to look like the Hall Coogans. They're 762 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,480 Speaker 6: supposed to look like the stone called Steve Austin's. And 763 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 6: what you have to realize is us as a populist. 764 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 6: They're supposed to be magnetized towards one of those pillars 765 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:15,440 Speaker 6: or the other pillar. But you're still paying your money 766 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,160 Speaker 6: to the World Wrestling Entertainment Company. 767 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,600 Speaker 5: Right right, it's all suspect. Hey, thanks, Jay, I really 768 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,160 Speaker 5: appreciate you coming on sharing all these insights. It's been 769 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 5: really great. Do you have a release date for the 770 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,000 Speaker 5: Beyond UFOs and a new reality yet? 771 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,160 Speaker 6: So we're looking at the end of the year, right 772 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,000 Speaker 6: around the holidays, and we'll have a specific date for 773 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,040 Speaker 6: folks just in the few weeks ahead. 774 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,080 Speaker 5: Awesome. Thanks for listening to Beyond Contact. We will be 775 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,640 Speaker 5: back next week with an all new episode. You can 776 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:44,480 Speaker 5: follow me Captain Ron on Twitter and Instagram at CID 777 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:48,880 Speaker 5: Underscore Captain Ron. Stay connected by checking out contact intheesert 778 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,800 Speaker 5: dot com. Stay open minded and rational as we explore 779 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,680 Speaker 5: the unknown right here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to 780 00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 5: Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 781 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,000 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast 782 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,000 Speaker 1: AY and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out 783 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,359 Speaker 1: all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going 784 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:23,839 Speaker 1: to iHeartRadio dot com