1 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: Hey, this Sanny and Samantha, and welcome to stuff I've 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 1: never told you production. If I heart Radio's house, stuff works. 3 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: I'm excited about today's classic because we're we're bringing back 4 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: an old one. Um. It's a two parter, yes, on 5 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: women in comics, and I find the history of comics fascinating. 6 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:41,599 Speaker 1: People know I love superheroes. Here I did you read 7 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: any comics growing up, Sanantha? Not one, not a single one. 8 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: Would every now the Sunday comics If I went to 9 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: my grandparents house, who got the Sunday newspaper. But that 10 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: was about it. I I mostly read X Men. That 11 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: was my my thing. But I did read some Batman, 12 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: some wonder Woman, some Super or Man, and I guess 13 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: I did read the Avengers when I got older. I've 14 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: definitely read all of those now and a bunch of 15 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: indie ones that I'm really blanking on it. It's making 16 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: me really mad because I know they're really good and 17 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: I want to shot them out, but I can't think 18 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,119 Speaker 1: of them. I did read Walking Dead some horror comics, 19 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: but I love it and I love the art of it. Yeah, 20 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: and that's one of the reasons I love Spider Verse 21 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,479 Speaker 1: so much. Because I love that they used that art. 22 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: It feels like a comic has come to life. It's 23 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: very nostalgic. Yeah, yeah, it is, um but there are certainly, 24 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: and especially through this job I've I've come to find 25 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: out a lot more about it. There's certainly some problematic 26 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: things in the history of comics very much. There's some 27 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: storylines that I read and I'm I am shocked right 28 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: that they got right. Um. And so as as more 29 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: women do get into this industry, and we do, we 30 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: are starting to see changes of that. I'm glad. I'm 31 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: glad that the audience they're finally realizing there's an audience 32 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: of people that are into this that are women, are 33 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: non binary, um and and they're starting to make stuff 34 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: for them with them in mind. I think that's really great. 35 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, there's a there's quite a long way 36 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: to go, and I would love to come back. I 37 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: just read an article this morning on the history of 38 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: Miss Marvel slash Captain Marvel in the history of like 39 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: how feminism really influenced that character. So maybe in the 40 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: future we will get to to talk about that, but 41 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: in the meantime, we hope you enjoy this classic Welcome 42 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: to Stuff Mob Never told You from how Stuffworks dot com. Hello, 43 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,959 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline. 44 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: And this episode on women in cartooning initially started off 45 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: as just a run of the mill podcast episode. We 46 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 1: ran across a fantastic article by Lisa Hicks over at 47 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: Collector's Weekly, which is mostly an interview with Trina Robbins, 48 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: who is a cartoon historian and has written a number 49 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: of books specifically focusing on women in cartoons, most recently 50 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: Pretty and Ink. And we started reading the article and 51 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: we quickly realized, oh, this is not just one podcast, No, 52 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: I mean it's It would be impossible to condense cartooning 53 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: and comic and comic book history, especially in regards to 54 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: women in into just one episode, especially when you, guys, 55 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: there's an entire Golden era of comics that we have 56 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: to tell you about, not to mention all of the 57 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: interesting stuff going on today in the industry. So for 58 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: part one of our look at women in cartooning in comics, 59 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: we're going to go back in history and sort of 60 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: lay the groundwork leading up to and through the Golden 61 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: era of comics. And yeah, we are combining like cartoon 62 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: strips with actual comic books and for comics, just one 63 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: note on that we're really focusing on the creators. We're 64 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: not looking so much at the characters in them. But 65 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: of course the creator's influence the kinds of characters that 66 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 1: you then see reflected in strips and books. So pardon us, though, 67 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: for purists out there, for us condensing both of them together. 68 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: But first of all, let's talk about quite possibly the 69 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: very first published female cartoonists in the United States. Yeah, 70 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: Rose O'Neill might be best known for her CuPy drawings 71 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: that she made, those little cherub cheeked children that actually 72 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: my mother finds incredibly creepy. She can't even say we're 73 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: QPI without making a face. Unfortunately, you're kind of making 74 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: a face too. Well, I know, I just yeah, I 75 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 1: don't understand all the time my mother thinking things that 76 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 1: are are weird. But anyway, so let's get back to 77 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: Rose O'Neill and get off of Sally So At thirteen, 78 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: at the tender age of thirteen, Rose O'Neill won an 79 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: art contest prize for her drawings, and when the judges 80 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: realized that the winner of the prize was a girl, 81 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: they made her sit down and reproduce the drawing in 82 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 1: front of them, because surely a girl would not be 83 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 1: talented enough. But she proved those people wrong. Yeah, and 84 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: she was highly successful as an illustrator from a young age, 85 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: so in when she was just twenty years old, Truth 86 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: Magazine bought and published her comic strip, The Old Subscriber Calls, 87 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: which is possibly the first published comic strip by a woman. 88 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 1: And The Old Subscriber Calls is essentially a quick strip 89 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:04,359 Speaker 1: about an old magazine subscriber coming to the magazine office 90 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: and he's not very happy about it, and there's this 91 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 1: tidal wave that also comes in, and then he leaves, 92 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: and the publishers like, well, I'm glad we survived that one. Well, 93 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: the joke, which I love so much and appreciate having 94 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: worked at a newspaper for four years, is that the 95 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: whole punch line is that when the subscriber comes in 96 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: and he's so angry and he beats up the editor, 97 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: the editor doesn't care that he just got himself beaten up. 98 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 1: He's just glad the subscriber didn't cancel his subscription and 99 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: they didn't lose that revenue. And the fact that I 100 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 1: chuckled out loud at that that cartoon from eighteen six. 101 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 1: I love that it's still it's still totally relevant, because 102 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: I feel like people in newspapers today are still like, 103 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 1: just don't unsubscribe, please, You're an old soul, Caroline. I 104 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 1: guess Caroline loves those nineteenth century punchline exactly. I really 105 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: do so. But before this O'Neill had already been selling 106 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 1: her illustrations to other magazines and newspapers, so she was 107 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: at twenty sort of an old hand at this. But 108 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: we do have to look at the context of the 109 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: time also in which this is going on. For instance, 110 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: you have R. F outcos Hogan's Alley, better known as 111 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: The Yellow Kid, which was published in Joseph Pulitzer, Yes 112 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:28,239 Speaker 1: that Pullitzer, his New York World newspaper, and The Yellow 113 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: Kid was the first commercially successful comic strip published in 114 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: a newspaper, which was quickly followed up by strips like 115 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: Little Nemo in Slumberland, Crazy Cat, et cetera. And these 116 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: newspaper comic strips would remain the predominant form of comics 117 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: until the nineteen thirties, when comic books would slowly come around, 118 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: even though of course in the newspapers you would still 119 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: have cartoon strips. But while all of this is happening 120 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: at the close of the nineteenth century, plue of other 121 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: women in addition to Rose O'Neil, we're getting in on 122 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: the comic strip game as well. Because you have to 123 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: keep in mind too that with Pulitzer and Hurst and 124 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: all these big names in publishing rising up, and you 125 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: have these newspaper wars going on in print journalism or 126 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: if you could call it journalism really at the time, 127 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: but print publishing was so huge, and there were so 128 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: many different outlets for people to get their cartoons published. 129 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: So you have people like Grace Gebby and her cartoon 130 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: Naughty Tootles. Trina Robbins, a comic historian, attributes quote setting 131 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: the tone for comic strips for the next thirty years. 132 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: And so she says that because a lot of the 133 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:51,079 Speaker 1: early comic strips that you see heavily feature these chubby 134 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: cheeked babies and kids just goofing around, and Caroline, while 135 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: you were busy chuckling at the old subscriber calls, I 136 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: was juggling at Naughty Tootles strips, which is essentially about 137 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 1: this naughty toddler girl who always disobeys her mom and 138 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 1: Miss Pinnounce's woods. So she's naughty Tootles and she like 139 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: sprays her mom with a hose and it's always getting 140 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: into all sorts of twubble. I hate when toddlers spray 141 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: me with hoses. Yeah, who doesn't, Caroline Um? But yeah, 142 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: so this this Grace Gibby character she used. It went 143 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,599 Speaker 1: by a pen named Grace Drayton, which I believe was 144 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: her married name. She also went on to create Bobby 145 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: Blake and Dolly Drake, Dottie Dimple, Captain Kiddo, which I 146 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: would like to adopt as a forced nickname that other 147 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 1: people must call me. And that's Captain with a K 148 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: mind you, of course it is, and of course Dottie Dingle. 149 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: But she also drew the Campbell soup kids, and this 150 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: style actually inspired Rose O'Neill and her CuPy dolls. And 151 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: QPI is short for cupid, but that's also CuPy with okay, 152 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: And I like how she said that these cuby dolls 153 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: came to her one night in a dream. But there 154 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: is one thing worth noting about all these chubby cheeked 155 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: kids in these early comic strips. Uh, there's a paper 156 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 1: that Trina Robbins wrote examining the different styles of male 157 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: and female characters in comic strips and cartoons, sort of 158 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: sexual dimorphism, and how how that has been depicted in illustration. 159 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: And she talks about how during this era it wasn't 160 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: just women drawing these chubby cheeked kids either. It was 161 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,559 Speaker 1: just kind of the thing. Everybody thought they were adorable. 162 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 1: So you also had guys too, who were drawing their 163 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: own dotty dingles. And by nineteen hundred there are a 164 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,839 Speaker 1: number of women drawn comics in the Sunday newspapers. You've 165 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: got Louise corals Is Buns Puns, Grace Casson's Tin Tin 166 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: Tales for Children, and Agnes replies the filip busters. Oh, 167 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: I just like to imagine that that's still the chubby 168 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:12,079 Speaker 1: cheeked children, but they're dressed like as as politicians. Oh yeah, 169 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: like wigs and robes and things. Yeah, I like, I 170 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: like that. Um. And talking about the influence of these women, 171 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:25,199 Speaker 1: Trina Robbins told Lisa Hicks, quote, everyone read newspapers and magazines. 172 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: The women who drew cartoons were nationally famous superstars. People 173 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: would cut out their strips and save them. You can 174 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 1: find scrap books with these women's cartoons pasted into them, 175 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: sometimes colored in by a young girl. Nobody thought it 176 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: was unusual for a woman to do comics, because it 177 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: wasn't unusual for women and girls to read comics. That's 178 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:50,479 Speaker 1: so key that you have girls identifying with the artists 179 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: and or the the artist creations, and that there was 180 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: nothing weird about it, And the same way that it's 181 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: nothing there's nothing weird about girls and boys coloring and 182 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: coloring books forever for generations. There's there was nothing weird 183 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: or unusual at the time about girls collecting and enjoying 184 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: comic strips. But oh, how that would change, I know. 185 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: But but luckily, and what I love the imagery from 186 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: this time because luckily a lot of these cartoonists were 187 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: staunch suffragists as well, and they used their creations to 188 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: fight for women's rights. Yeah. Rose O'Neil in particular, as 189 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: well as her sister Callista, were known in New York 190 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: City circles for their suffrage activism, and O'Neill would draw 191 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:41,319 Speaker 1: these suffrage postcards that were really widely circulated at the time, 192 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,599 Speaker 1: and they and She often featured her cubie dolls I 193 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 1: guess they were dolls at the time, quepies in her 194 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: cartoons promoting women's rights, which I mean talk about catching. 195 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: What is the saying catching a fly with honey? I think, 196 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: so okay, I gotta get it. String a bee with honey, 197 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 1: a fly, probably a fly because makes the honeys. Okay, 198 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: So glad we got that worked out. So all of 199 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 1: that to say, she would use these adorable, chubby, cheek 200 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: little characters to be like I would like mommy to 201 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: be able to vote too. Well. For those of you 202 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: who follow us on Pinterest, and I know that's all 203 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: of you because you love us. Um, we actually do 204 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: have a suffrage board, a suffragist board on our Pinterest account, 205 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: and I pinned a whole bunch of cartoons from this era, 206 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: one of which is one of the cup characters holding 207 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: a sign that says votes for women. And I sadly 208 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: would still probably think that was creepy, but I like it. 209 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: That sounds adorable. It does sound adorable. But I also 210 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: pinned a picture. There was a cartoon at the time, 211 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: uh in the humor magazine Puck that features a woman 212 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: sitting on top of a stove wearing a crown, and 213 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: the caption is woman queen of the home, say the 214 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: anti suffragists, Yes, queen of a cook stove throne. So 215 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: it's it's humorous, but it's also kind of sad. And 216 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 1: that was from Well and Puck too featured a lot 217 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: of pro suffrage cartoons and also anti suffrage cartoons. And 218 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: when you look at the anti suffrage illustrations, usually, and 219 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: not surprisingly, the suffragists are always depicted as buck tooth ugly, 220 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: they're smoking cigarettes, and the captions are always about how 221 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: women just want to oppress men, and it usually shows 222 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: men then in domestic roles, perhaps wearing aprons, are caring 223 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: for the babies, or and then their wife is nowhere 224 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: to be found because she's gotten the vote, and she 225 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: is then never home. I guess because she's just voting 226 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: all the time. I guess the lines are so long. Well, 227 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: don't you know, Kristen, that a hundred years ago elections 228 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: were held once a week, so women were just constantly 229 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: out of the home voting. But now there were a 230 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: lot of cartoons at the time to showing these men 231 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: who had been abandoned by their wives, who dared to 232 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: fight for equal rights, uh, you know, with the halo 233 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: around their head, and it was often paired with the 234 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: words suffragette Madonna that apparently when women are out voting 235 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: and earning rights, that that apparently somehow took rights away 236 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: from men. Now, this is just one example of the 237 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: political cartoons from the day, but a really fascinating intersection 238 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: of women in cartooning and the social movements at the 239 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: time and women's rights all coming together in this very 240 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: specific subset of suffrage cartoons and postcards and illustrations that 241 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: were really everywhere at the time. I mean, these were 242 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: really powerful drawings. Yeah. I mean, if you think about it, 243 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: like the imagery that they that readers are presented with, 244 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: it's not like they're getting it that many other places 245 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: that they don't have TV, they don't have Pinterest, they 246 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: don't have the giant time suck that is Pinterest that 247 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: we have today. But I mean, yeah, when you when 248 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: you're sharing these cartoons, of course they're going to pack 249 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: a punch because you're not seeing imagery like this just anywhere. Well, 250 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: and it's funny that you say they didn't have Pinterest 251 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: back then and talking about the internet, actually a couple 252 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: of years ago, there was an anti suffrage cartoon to 253 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: go off on a tangent for a second that went 254 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: viral online. It was also published in the magazine Puck 255 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: and it was by a Harry Grant Dart and it 256 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: was from and the drawing is of a woman's bar 257 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: where all of the women are smoking and doing all 258 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: sorts of manly things. And they're like women huddled around 259 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: the stock ticker and like a sad baby looking up 260 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: at his mom is not paying attention because she's smoking 261 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: and gambling. And it was just fascinating. And the title 262 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: of it is why not go the Limit, basically saying like, well, 263 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: if we give them the vote, then they'll get all 264 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: these other things, these manly bourbon infused cigars, smoke smelling 265 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: kinds of things. Well, no, I immediately upon seeing this 266 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: image immediately made at my Facebook cover photo. It's a 267 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: good one because I love it. I love that women 268 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 1: who smoke and hang out in bars are considered like 269 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: dangerous to society. Well, I mean, and it just again, 270 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,640 Speaker 1: it's so it's so interesting in today's context to think 271 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 1: about the power of this imagery, especially as we move 272 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: into the World War One era. UM. One name that 273 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,119 Speaker 1: I hadn't heard of before researching for this podcast whom 274 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: I was surprised I hadn't run across before was Nell 275 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: Brinkley and her Brinkley Girls because we've talked a lot 276 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: in the podcast about Charles Dana Gibson and the Gibson 277 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,679 Speaker 1: Girls and how the Gibson Girl at the turn of 278 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: the century really established the beauty ideal for the time, 279 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 1: down to her silhouette, the hourglass silhouette, and we talked 280 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: about her in our Cankles and Ankles podcast. While following 281 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 1: on the heels of Gibson Girls, you have Nell Brinkley 282 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 1: and her ladies. Yeah. Nell Brinkley created these beautiful drawings 283 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: and beautiful works of art, and her women certainly were 284 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: more active. One was in a canoe paddling along with 285 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: the man sitting behind her, and uh, she enjoyed and 286 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:24,360 Speaker 1: her characters enjoyed so much popularity at the time, Um 287 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: that the zig Feld girls in the famous they were 288 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: famous performers were actually dressed as Brinkley girls. There was 289 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: even one act where a zig Feld girl was dressed 290 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: as the girl in the canoe with a man behind her. 291 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: And you could even buy Nell Brinkley curlers to get 292 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: your hair to curl, just like that of her characters. Yeah, 293 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: unlike the Gibson girls, whose hair was usually in an 294 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: up to you know, pinned up, Brinkley girls had big, 295 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: curly hair. They were often more working class. And it's 296 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: also notable to see how quickly Brinkley's career took off 297 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 1: because she came to New York in n to draw 298 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: for the Hearst Syndicate and by eight she was on 299 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: her way to becoming a household name. And during World 300 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: War One she created this series called Golden Eyes and 301 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: Her Hero Bill, which was published in the magazine American Weekly, 302 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,239 Speaker 1: and it was sort of a proto comic style of 303 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: a serialized story, but it didn't have speech bubbles or panels. 304 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 1: It would be one full page gorgeous art nouveau illustration 305 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 1: of this leading lady Golden Eyes, and then it would 306 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: have the captions detailed captions underneath. And Golden Eyes in 307 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: Her Hero Bill are all about how while Bill goes 308 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: off to war during World War One, Golden Eyes goes 309 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 1: on adventures with Bill's collie, whose name is Uncle Sam 310 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: right precursor to Lassie Um Golden Eyes is allowed to 311 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: be an amazing character and it's exciting. She ultimately saves 312 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: Bill from death by the Germans, and Brinkley follows Golden 313 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: Eyes up in ninety with Kathleen and the Great Secret, 314 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: another strip in which the heroine saves the hero and 315 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: Trina Robbins, the historian that we mentioned, calls Kathleen another 316 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 1: amazingly feminist cliffhanger. Yeah. And after World War One you 317 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 1: have the rise of flapper comics, and Nel Brinkley sort 318 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: of credited with inventing this type of comic strip, even 319 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 1: though obviously she didn't invent the flapper, but sort of 320 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: playing on this new type of woman, and her contemporaries 321 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: as well, had a featured flapper characters that weren't so 322 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: overtly feminists necessarily, but they were significantly different from say, 323 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: the women depicted in those anti suffrage cartoons that were, 324 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: you know, painting the terrifying portrait of what would happen 325 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: if women got some freedom. Well, it turns out they 326 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: are just well flappers. Yeah. So, for instance, you have 327 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: artist Ethel Hayes, who created strips like Ethel Flapper, Fannie 328 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: Says and Maryanne and flapper Fannie was very much like 329 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: sort of portraying this emerging teen life, this young woman life, 330 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 1: and what that entailed. Um, and this is coming from 331 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,120 Speaker 1: Hogan's alley, but I thought that Ethel Hayes was such 332 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: an interesting character, was such a great story. She actually, 333 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: instead of going to finishing school, went to the Los 334 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: Angeles School of Art and Design. She convinced her parents 335 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,880 Speaker 1: to send her there. After that, she won a scholarship 336 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 1: to New York's Art Students League, then to the Julian 337 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: Academy in Paris, then joined up with the Red Cross 338 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 1: during World War One, where she helped rehab soldiers through 339 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: art classes, and when the soldiers weren't super excited about 340 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: learning the type of art that she was teaching and 341 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: they wanted to learn how to draw cartoons, she ended 342 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: up enrolling herself in a cartooning correspondence course to help 343 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: teach them, and the head of that school was so 344 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: impressed with her abilities that he passes her stuff along 345 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: to the Cleveland Press, which offered her a job in 346 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: nineteen and now hey is getting this job. She assumed 347 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,199 Speaker 1: that her duties would just end up being stuff like 348 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: touch up and layout work, kind of like the Women 349 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: of Disney that Kristen and I talked about last year, 350 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: but instead when she showed up, she had the job 351 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: of illustrating stories a colleague, stories of a Flappers hijinks, 352 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: and so she actually had a lot of control over 353 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: what she created. Yeah, and after Ethel Hayes, Gladys Parker 354 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,919 Speaker 1: took over Flapper Fanny and she also created the strip Mopsie. 355 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: And then during World War Two she created Betty g I, 356 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: which I mean it's a very World War two sounding 357 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: comic strip. And speaking of World War two, though around 358 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: that time, obviously lapper cartoons had become passe, and as 359 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 1: that happened, they were replaced largely by Team girl characters, 360 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: because this is when being a teenager and that whole 361 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: culture really emerges in the US as well. So that's 362 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: reflected in the cartoon strips of Virginia Huge a who 363 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: that is her her pen name's pen name? Do you 364 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 1: have a Is it a drawing name? Is it the 365 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: same thing for a cartoonist as it is for a 366 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: writer a lettering name, an inc name? Um regardless, Huge 367 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: created Campus Capers and Babs in Society, and those were 368 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,880 Speaker 1: a couple of Trina Robbins is a favorite women drawn 369 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: cartoons from that time. Now, one woman from the pre 370 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: World War Two era who we definitely need to highlight 371 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: before we move on is Jackie ORMs, who was the 372 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 1: first female African American career cartoonist who in ninety seven 373 00:23:55,000 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: first published Dixie to Harlem, which featured the character Orchi Brown, 374 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 1: and it was published in the African American newspaper at 375 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 1: the Pittsburgh Courier. And then in she created the short 376 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 1: lived cartoon Candy, which was published in the Chicago Defender, 377 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: also an African American newspaper, and it was about a 378 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: housemaid who essentially tells it like it is on social issues, 379 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 1: and she'll use a similar kind of format in terms 380 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 1: of using cartoons to talk about and tell it how 381 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 1: it is when it comes to social issues in the 382 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: strip that she's best known for, which is Patty Joe 383 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: and Ginger, and this is a single panel series that 384 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 1: was also published in the Pittsburgh Courier, which ran weekly 385 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: for eleven straight years starting in nineteen and it's all about, 386 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: as you would guess, Patty Joe and Ginger, and Patty 387 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: Joe is a little sister and Ginger is the older 388 00:24:54,920 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: fashionable sister and Patty Joe essentially, I mean she she's 389 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 1: a very like straight talking it's almost like the out 390 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,160 Speaker 1: of the mouth of babes, you know. She's the straight 391 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: talking character who always has these very sage of funny 392 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: observations about life, about society, about racism, about politics. And 393 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 1: it was so popular and influential in its depiction of 394 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: black girls. In particular, the Patty Joe doll, which was 395 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: sold in the late nineteen forties, is considered one of 396 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 1: the first positive black dolls ever sold in the United States, 397 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: and then from nineteen fifty to nineteen fifty four, ORMs 398 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: is last comic strip Torchy and Heartbeats featured a mature 399 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: black woman and activist looking for love. So it's interesting 400 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: you have this more mature activist coming up right as 401 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: the civil rights movement starts to get underway. Yeah, And 402 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 1: Nancy Goldstein actually wrote an entire book about Jackie ORMs 403 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 1: called Jackie ORMs the first African American woman Cartoonist, and 404 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: she talks a lot about how her lead characters, often 405 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: women obviously have Patty Joe Ginger Torchy candy, they usually 406 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: broke out of the racially stereotyped roles for black people, 407 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 1: showing them doing things like shopping, going to concerts, taking 408 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: music lessons, going on road trips, etcetera, rather than being 409 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: pigeonholed in these subservient or racist kinds of roles that 410 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: they had been previously cast in in white pop culture. 411 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:36,360 Speaker 1: And they also hit on serious issues including racism, taxes, 412 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: labor strikes, McCarthy ism, foreign policy, the Cold War, education 413 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: and jobs. And Nancy Goldstein told Marketplace that ORMs was 414 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: the first cartoonist of any kind to bring out environmental pollution. 415 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: I mean she covered really everything and a lot of times, 416 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,360 Speaker 1: especially in Patty Joe and Ginger. It's Patty Joe who 417 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,919 Speaker 1: is making the observations about all these different things, and 418 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: it plays off of Ginger, who was very attractive and 419 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: sort of going about her business. And Patty Joe would 420 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: would just kind of call out certain things as she 421 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: saw it. And I mean, she was quite a woman. 422 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: And in a review in American Studies of Goldstein's book 423 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: about Worms, they point out that her characters articulated self, pride, 424 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: and modernity, and that they were everyday people going through 425 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: circumstances that her readers recognized again, you know, going back 426 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,199 Speaker 1: to the fact that she had them doing just normal 427 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: people activities that they weren't relying on any you know, 428 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 1: racist stereotypes or racist imagery. So it's yet another example 429 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 1: of the powerful influence of cartoons and comics. And that's 430 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,199 Speaker 1: something that gets talked about a lot today when it 431 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 1: comes to analyzing comics and appreciating the history of comics, 432 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: because it's sort of a new kind of thing because 433 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: for a long time, people are more serious artists might 434 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 1: have brushed off comics as just childish or worthless. They're 435 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 1: just they're just cartoons. What does it matter? But clearly 436 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: in examples like Jackie ORMs is work, it matters a 437 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: great deal because you're able to say things probably that 438 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: you couldn't otherwise say through this gentler, sometimes medium, right, 439 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,719 Speaker 1: and using ORMs as an example, I mean, when you 440 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: bring people in with different perspectives, it only serves to 441 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: enrich the whole medium. Because consider for a second how 442 00:28:55,720 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: revolutionary that must have been in ninet to not only 443 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: have a comic, a single panel comic series penned by 444 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: a black woman, but it's also featuring almost exclusively black women. 445 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: There was nothing else like it. At the time and 446 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: featuring black women as human people and not just caricatures. 447 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: So now we're going to move away from the newspaper 448 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: cartoons oh and look more into comic books, because as 449 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: we have gotten into the World War two era in 450 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 1: our timeline, this is also approaching the golden era of 451 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: comic books. We've been discussing comic strips and single panel 452 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: comics as they appeared in newspapers, but you're probably wondering 453 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: what we have to say about comic books. And the 454 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: first regular comic book actually appears way before World War Two, 455 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: back in nineteen two, and comic books actually got a 456 00:29:55,360 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 1: jolt of popularity when gas stations began offering them in 457 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: the early to mid thirties. And then in the golden 458 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: age of comic books begins with Action Comics publication of 459 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: Action Comics number one, debuting a fellow you've probably heard 460 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: of named Superman John's Superman uh, and then Detective Comics 461 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: or d C would go on to publish Batman or Batman, 462 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: and after this, comic book sales shoot up during World 463 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: War Two because they featured themes of good triumphing over 464 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: evil pro American characters and superheroes, and of course the 465 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: first Captain America cover features him battling Hitler. So it's 466 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: it's some really satisfying good versus evil black and white 467 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: clear stuff. And it's super satisfying for this industry because 468 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: by October nineteen fifty four, the comics industry would be 469 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: selling one fifty million copies per month of six hundred 470 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: fifty different titles, reaping ninety million dollars per year. And 471 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: I believe that was ninety million dollars in nineteen fifty 472 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: four money, So they're doing pretty good. Yeah, well, so 473 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: what about the women. Where are the women in this era? Oh? 474 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: There there are a few women of the Golden Age. 475 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: So the first one we need to talk about really 476 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: emerged in ninety nine. Her name was June Mills, but 477 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: she went under the pseudonym Tarpei Mills to sort of 478 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 1: conceal her gender because that was the environment at the time. 479 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: And she got her start in comic books with Daredevil 480 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: Berry Finn, all about a Dada devil named Berry Finn 481 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: who had a plan to thwart Hitler and Mussolini, and 482 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 1: then she would go on to create Purple Zombie, Devil's 483 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: Dust and the Catman, which is not the same as 484 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: Crazy Cat Lady, although I wonder if perhaps I was 485 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: a love interest at one one point. Probably also not 486 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: to be confused with a scatman. Oh so, and I 487 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: like the straightforwardness of Purple Zombie that title, Yeah, just 488 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: you know what you're getting straightforward? Well so, then a 489 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 1: couple of years later, Mills creates the first major female 490 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: action hero, so from we get Miss Fury. Of course 491 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: she her real identity is socialite Marla Drake, who inherits 492 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 1: a magical suit of panther skin that she carries around 493 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: in her purse. Pretty sure she got the panther suit 494 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: willed to her by her uncle, but the suit was 495 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: supposed to be worn by a witch doctor. But you know, 496 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: you can't stop a good costume, I understand. Well, she 497 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: had gone to a party and someone else was wearing 498 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: the same outfit she was, And even worse than wearing 499 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: something only a witch doctor is supposed to wear, would 500 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: be another woman wearing the same outfit as you at 501 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: the same party. So Marla was like, you know what, 502 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 1: I'll just wear this panther skin. It's no big deal. 503 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: And even though her friend Albino Joe actual character name 504 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: was like, I don't think you should do that. She did, 505 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: and lo and behold it had magical powers that turned 506 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: her into a superhero. But the cool thing about Miss 507 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: Fury was that the panther skin suit did not get 508 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: worn all that often. She kind of referred to do 509 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: her crime fighting in her normal socialite clothes. She was 510 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: very smartly dressed. Who and she happened to fight Nazis, 511 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: so yeah, just just happened to But yeah, Miss Fury 512 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,959 Speaker 1: wasn't actually a comic book. She was a Sunday serial. 513 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this is This is a good point, but 514 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: still important as a major female action hero. And remember 515 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: this is new territory for women getting into action comics 516 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: and cartoons, right, And she did definitely pave the way 517 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: for a bunch of future female superhero characters often drawn 518 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 1: by men, including Phantom, Lady, Miss Mask, Red, Tornado, Lady Luck, 519 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: Spider Widow, and wonder Woman, who came around in ninety 520 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: one thanks to William Marshton, who we've done a podcast about. Yeah, 521 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 1: and around the same time that all this is happening 522 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:14,360 Speaker 1: in nt Dale Messick, who changed her name like Darpe Mills, 523 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: from Dahlia to Dale to make it sound more masculine. 524 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: She created the action adventure strip Brenda Star Reporter, and 525 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: she was influenced by none other than Nell Brinkley. I actually, 526 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 1: for a while, Kristen and middle school really kept up 527 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: with Brenda Starr, like every day ran for the paper 528 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: to go to the comics section to read Brenda Star. Yeah. 529 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,399 Speaker 1: I read her in the Sunday Funnies. And you know what, 530 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: that takes a lot of patients because there's a lot 531 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 1: of dialogue. I think I would have rather just had 532 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: a comic book as a child, which I never had 533 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: to read it all at once. But yeah, that's that's fine. 534 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: That's fine. Um. But so with this whole trend that 535 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: we're starting to see with women artists creating female action 536 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 1: heroes in comics, they are, like Christen said, sort of 537 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: entering a dude territory. It was all fun in games 538 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 1: when women were creating the more domestic scenes, the teen 539 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: girl comics, the comics for children and featuring animals and 540 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,400 Speaker 1: things like that. That was all fine. But when you 541 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:21,320 Speaker 1: start sort of treading into the action genre, that's when 542 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 1: guys basically started turning their backs on some of these 543 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,799 Speaker 1: female artists. Well, and I wonder too if it had 544 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: to do with just how successful this new Ish comic 545 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 1: book industry was, you know, and it seemed like women 546 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 1: were kind of creeping in on that. And Trina Robbins 547 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,399 Speaker 1: told Lisa Hicks Um for Collectors Weekly quote, up until then, 548 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 1: nobody had resented the other women cartoonist, but she was 549 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,760 Speaker 1: getting into men's territory the action strip before Dale messic 550 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,720 Speaker 1: women cartoonists all stuck with domestic situations, pretty girls, cute kids, 551 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. She was intruding and they resented it. 552 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: As a result, men in the industry were not particular 553 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: complimentary about her art, and she felt very neglected by them. 554 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,919 Speaker 1: And this would last well into her career. Even though 555 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: she was wildly successful within the cartoon or within the 556 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: comic industry, I should say, she often felt like an outsider. Well. Yeah, 557 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: and then once we get back to World War Two, 558 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: as with so many industries in the United States, women 559 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: sort of filled a void. The comic book industry became 560 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,839 Speaker 1: slightly friendlier to women while the guys were off overseas fighting. Yeah, 561 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: this is the same kind of thing that we talked 562 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: about in our Women of Disney podcast. Um, in that 563 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 1: during World War One, you have more women being employed, 564 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: not necessarily to create these comic heroes, but a lot 565 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: of them were employed as pencil ers and inkers, sometimes 566 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,400 Speaker 1: as letterers, because they're I mean, they're all these different 567 00:36:55,040 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 1: layers involved in creating a comic. It's not just one 568 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:04,720 Speaker 1: person doing all of the work. And Wesley Channel talks 569 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,920 Speaker 1: about this a lot in his thesis, Working the Margins 570 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: Women in the Comic book industry, and I mean, he 571 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:15,719 Speaker 1: gets very granular about women during the Golden Era and 572 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 1: during World War Two, and he says that Fiction House 573 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: Publishing Company hired the most women, including Frand Hopper and 574 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,800 Speaker 1: Lily Renee, who created Mist of the Moon, which was 575 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 1: all about this moon woman who had a robot dog 576 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: who has the superpower of possessing all the knowledge of 577 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: the universe. That would be so handy. I could finally 578 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: fly a helicopter. Yeah, and you'd have a robot dog dog. 579 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 1: It wouldn't shed. But DC fans out there raised yourselves 580 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 1: because during World War two, oh, I'm sorry, during the 581 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: entire nineteen forties, Elizabeth Burnley. Bentley was the only known 582 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: female artist who have worked at what was then National 583 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 1: periodicals which than be rolled into d C. And she 584 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 1: did lettering and penciling of backgrounds uncredited for both Batman 585 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,840 Speaker 1: and Superman. Yeah, Marvel and DC definitely both had the 586 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 1: worst record of female artist employment compared with their contemporaries, 587 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 1: but writers fared a little bit better, and that that's 588 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 1: kind of across the board. I would say that writers 589 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,800 Speaker 1: and editors tend to fare better, um than the artists. 590 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:30,760 Speaker 1: So what happens then after World War Two? Well, after 591 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,839 Speaker 1: World War two, superhero comics decline in popularity. I mean, 592 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 1: you have soldiers coming home, so that puts a dent 593 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 1: in sales to begin with, just because I mean soldiers 594 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: abroad in foxholes, you know, at camps overseas, gobbled up 595 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,319 Speaker 1: comic books to keep them entertained. And then on top 596 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 1: of that too, once you don't have say Hitler and 597 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 1: Mussolini for Captain America to fight, I mean, the entire 598 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 1: landscape is chain Jing. And what's interesting to see is how, 599 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 1: in an attempt to attract new readership, you do have 600 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:11,240 Speaker 1: more female characters emerge, but it's all focused around romance 601 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,280 Speaker 1: and domesticity, with maybe a little bit of crime fighting 602 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,760 Speaker 1: here and there. Yeah, and we also see the renewed 603 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 1: interest in teen comic strips, because you know, Archie had 604 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 1: launched in one, which was the same year as Hilda 605 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 1: Terry's influential strip Tina. And I mean, we've talked on 606 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 1: the podcast before about post war social anxieties and the 607 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: need to sort of reassert a traditional masculinity and a 608 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,759 Speaker 1: traditional femininity, women leaving the workplace, going back home to 609 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 1: take care of the men who have returned well. And 610 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 1: as we talked about in our podcast on whether World 611 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,760 Speaker 1: War Two was all that great for Rosie the Riveters, 612 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,200 Speaker 1: and basically how after they come home, the women were 613 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:53,320 Speaker 1: expected to leave the jobs that so that men could 614 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,920 Speaker 1: have jobs to take back up. And the same thing 615 00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,840 Speaker 1: happened in the comic industry. After World War Two, women's 616 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 1: employment in the comic industry dropped by about two thirds, 617 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,319 Speaker 1: and the women who stayed were usually kicked out of 618 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:13,800 Speaker 1: action adventure titles and then redirected to teen and romance serials, 619 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: or some of them just moved into children's illustration. We're like, 620 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 1: I'm just getting out of this industry altogether. And so 621 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,680 Speaker 1: it's right after the war in nineteen six that we 622 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,799 Speaker 1: get the National Cartoonists society that forms. That sounds cool, right, 623 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 1: Oh well, it's open to you if you're a man. 624 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:36,239 Speaker 1: And in nineteen forty nine, Hilda Terry puts up a fight. 625 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,040 Speaker 1: She called for the inclusion of women, or told them, 626 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 1: if you're not going to include us, maybe you should 627 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: just change your name to the National Men Cartoonist Society. Yeah, 628 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 1: Hilda Terry was not pleased. Um, but the good news 629 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 1: is in nineteen fifty Al Capp, who created a Little 630 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 1: Abner as well as other obviously male because they were 631 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,880 Speaker 1: all male, members of the National Cartoonist Society, came to 632 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: bat for women's inclusion, and so the society finally had 633 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:11,360 Speaker 1: to open up its stores to let some women. And 634 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,520 Speaker 1: although there weren't that many. Well, so we've already seen, 635 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,399 Speaker 1: you know, Kristen mentioned the declining numbers that we see 636 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,040 Speaker 1: by nineteen fifty that more women are just going into 637 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:27,759 Speaker 1: other arenas. Butt four, something happens that makes things even 638 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,440 Speaker 1: more difficult for really everybody, not just women. But in 639 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,680 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four we get the publication of uh Frederick 640 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:39,360 Speaker 1: Wortham's Seduction of the Innocent, which blamed comic books for 641 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 1: corrupting young minds, and that leads to the Comics Code, 642 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:47,799 Speaker 1: which basically sanitized mainstream comics. We wanted to get root 643 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: out any sex, any violence, any anything that could potentially 644 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,959 Speaker 1: poison young minds. So this is not unlike every fight 645 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 1: we have ever had every generation of forever, whether it's 646 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:02,440 Speaker 1: about music or video games. But in this particular instance, 647 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,280 Speaker 1: it was all about what comics were doing to young children. 648 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 1: And we talked in our podcast while back on Wonder 649 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 1: Woman about how Wortham and the Comics Code was responsible 650 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,959 Speaker 1: for also sanitizing Wonder Woman. You see her shift even 651 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:24,440 Speaker 1: more to romantic storylines, and they were concerned in Wonder 652 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:29,960 Speaker 1: Woman in particular about overtones of lesbianism and bondage, and so, 653 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,200 Speaker 1: of course, with the Comics Code in the sixth sees, 654 00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:35,319 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, Wonder Woman is all about her 655 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:41,239 Speaker 1: boyfriend and clothes. And it's really with the publication of 656 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,200 Speaker 1: Seduction of the Innocent, which I mean this book. I 657 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:45,880 Speaker 1: mean it wasn't just a book that a lot of 658 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:47,960 Speaker 1: parents read and they freaked out about. I mean, there 659 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:54,360 Speaker 1: were senate meetings about comic books. Um. So, heading into 660 00:42:54,960 --> 00:43:00,279 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties, the golden age is over. Mainstream mix 661 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:04,360 Speaker 1: are getting a lot more sanitized. They're rather boring comparatively, 662 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:08,719 Speaker 1: and this is ushering in an underground comics with an 663 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:12,839 Speaker 1: ex revolution, and that comics with an ex revolution is 664 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,239 Speaker 1: something that krist and I will delve into in our 665 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 1: next episode, So stay tuned. Yeah, but now we want 666 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:25,120 Speaker 1: to hear from classic cartoon and comics fans and cartoonists listening. 667 00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:28,600 Speaker 1: Moms Stuff at House Stuffworks dot com is our email address. 668 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,480 Speaker 1: You can tweet us at mom Stuff Podcast. Let us 669 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:36,120 Speaker 1: know your favorite cartoonists, your comic books. Were there, classic 670 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,800 Speaker 1: era women that we didn't talk about, but we should 671 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,560 Speaker 1: let us know. You can email us, you can tweet us. 672 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:45,920 Speaker 1: You can also message us on Facebook. And we've got 673 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,480 Speaker 1: a couple of messages to share with you right now. 674 00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:56,520 Speaker 1: So I've gotta let her hear from Eleanor about our 675 00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,480 Speaker 1: two parter on Lady Detectives. She writes, I just finished 676 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,399 Speaker 1: listening to part two of Murder she watched. She said, 677 00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,839 Speaker 1: I love a good detective mystery, especially when the main 678 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,879 Speaker 1: character as a woman. I loved Jessica Fletcher and how 679 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,439 Speaker 1: she made the local sheriff eat his words every week. 680 00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,800 Speaker 1: I know it's difficult to fit all shows into an episode, 681 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:18,720 Speaker 1: but I wanted to mention a few of my favorites 682 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:22,279 Speaker 1: that I feel are definitely worth watching. The first is 683 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:26,360 Speaker 1: Hetty Wainthrop Mysteries. It's a British show that stars Patricia 684 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:30,120 Speaker 1: Routledge as Hetty Wainthrop, a private detective. You may remember 685 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,879 Speaker 1: her in her iconic role as Hyacinth Bouquet in Keeping 686 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:36,440 Speaker 1: Up Appearances. I do remember her in that role because 687 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:38,719 Speaker 1: of her work on that show. She's seen mainly as 688 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,400 Speaker 1: a comedic actress, but her range of talent is huge 689 00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,520 Speaker 1: and her versatility is definitely displayed in this show. She 690 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,440 Speaker 1: has a male sidekick, the teenage Jeffrey, played by the 691 00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,520 Speaker 1: also teenage Dominic Monaghan. If memory serves, it was his 692 00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,480 Speaker 1: first role. The series is from the mid nineties. The 693 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,759 Speaker 1: other one worth a watch is simply called Vera. It's 694 00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:59,560 Speaker 1: also a British show and you may be able to 695 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,680 Speaker 1: watch it your local PBS station. Vera is about a 696 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,920 Speaker 1: head detective, Vera Stanhope. She's in her sixties and unlike 697 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,279 Speaker 1: most women detectives, she does not wear fashionable clothes, says 698 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,200 Speaker 1: not have her hair done at a salon, and wear 699 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,840 Speaker 1: sensible shoes. She's witty and funny and grumpy and generous 700 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,319 Speaker 1: and very intelligent. Of all women detectives, she's the one 701 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,560 Speaker 1: that feels like a real person. The episodes are entertaining 702 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,360 Speaker 1: and well written. That's it, I guess. I love the podcast. 703 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,279 Speaker 1: Thank you for covering a subject so close to my heart, 704 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,640 Speaker 1: and thanks for the recommendations. Eleanor and I have a 705 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,880 Speaker 1: letter here from Ashley. She says, growing up, I wanted 706 00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,880 Speaker 1: to be a detective. I loved Charlie's Angels. When I 707 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,640 Speaker 1: was in elementary school, Kate Jackson Sabrina was my favorite. 708 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,160 Speaker 1: I was in her fan club and the autograph photo 709 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,720 Speaker 1: I received was my prized possession. Then along came Cagney 710 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:51,920 Speaker 1: and Lacy, and I had new role models during my 711 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,440 Speaker 1: middle and high school years. But I grew up in 712 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,120 Speaker 1: a conservative environment where I was expected to pursue a 713 00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,760 Speaker 1: white collar career suitable for a woman, so I followed 714 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,239 Speaker 1: a different career path. Part of me still regrets that 715 00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,839 Speaker 1: I didn't become a police officer, which is probably why 716 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,440 Speaker 1: I can't get enough of watching cop shows on TV. 717 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,439 Speaker 1: I watched many of the shows you mentioned and thought 718 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,400 Speaker 1: you made a lot of good points about the characters 719 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,399 Speaker 1: and storylines. I also hope to see more not so 720 00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,600 Speaker 1: feminine characters in this genre in the future. I watched 721 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 1: The Closer but always thought Brenda Lee was too surupy, 722 00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,840 Speaker 1: not to mention the overly southern accent. I much prefer 723 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,240 Speaker 1: Captain Sharon Rader on Major Crimes and think Mary McDonald, 724 00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:32,360 Speaker 1: at age sixty two, is fantastic in that role. Major 725 00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:36,359 Speaker 1: Crimes also includes Kieran Giovanni as Detective Amy Sykes. It's 726 00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:38,600 Speaker 1: nice that her character is a military veteran, but of 727 00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:42,080 Speaker 1: course she looks like a model. I consider Resolian Aisles 728 00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,760 Speaker 1: to be mindless fun rather than a serious cop drama. 729 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,799 Speaker 1: I think the producers purposely allow viewers to entertain hope 730 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,280 Speaker 1: of a romantic relationship between the two, and beautiful Angie 731 00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,839 Speaker 1: Harmon as the butch character makes me laugh. She put 732 00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,760 Speaker 1: butching quotes. By the way, I'm looking forward to watching 733 00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:58,759 Speaker 1: some of the other shows you mentioned that we're not 734 00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:03,319 Speaker 1: on my raid are. In conclusion, I loved these two 735 00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,120 Speaker 1: episodes and really enjoy your podcast. Keep up the good 736 00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:09,160 Speaker 1: work and thank you, Ashley. We appreciate the letter, and 737 00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,920 Speaker 1: thanks to everybody who's written into us. Mom Stuff at 738 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,440 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot Com is our email address. And 739 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,520 Speaker 1: for links to all of our social media as well 740 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,520 Speaker 1: as all of our blogs, videos, and podcasts with our 741 00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,520 Speaker 1: sources so you can follow along with us. Head on 742 00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:29,320 Speaker 1: over to stuff Mom Never Told You dot com for 743 00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:31,759 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it 744 00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:40,880 Speaker 1: how stuff Works dot com