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Speaker 1: Happy Wednesday, Welcome to another episode of the Chuck Podcast.

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Speaker 1: I've got a bit I don't want to call it popari,

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Speaker 1: but in my focus before we get to my interview,

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Speaker 1: day is going to be very campaigny, if you will,

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Speaker 1: some interesting developments on the campaign trail for twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: six plus I want to sort of do a quick

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Speaker 1: little side by side comparison to what the Republicans are

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Speaker 1: doing with the so called Save Act, their election reform

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Speaker 1: proposal and compare it to the failed Democratic version of this.

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Speaker 1: It was known as HR one back during the Biden era,

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Speaker 1: and of course it passed the House, but didn't make

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Speaker 1: it out of the Senate. We're going to see a

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Speaker 1: similar situation. This bill is going to fail, and I'll explain.

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Speaker 1: But what you have as two parties are who both

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Speaker 1: created bills that were designed to fail, not designed to pass.

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Speaker 1: And I want to talk about that in a few minutes.

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Speaker 1: My guest today, John Conyers the Third. He is the

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Speaker 1: son of the famous congressman from the Detroit era area,

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Speaker 1: from Detroit not area, from Detroit John Conyers to the

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Speaker 1: late John Conyers. He was elected back in the mid sixties,

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Speaker 1: one of the essentially essentially the earliest of the Civil

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Speaker 1: Rights era African American congressman to come in and uh

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Speaker 1: and be a leader of that movement. What's interesting about

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Speaker 1: John Conyers the third, his son wrote a book. He's

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Speaker 1: unique is his father was in his sixties when he

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Speaker 1: was born, so he is a millennial who's not two

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Speaker 1: generations removed from a leader of the Civil Rights era,

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Speaker 1: but just one generation. And he writes about that. He

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Speaker 1: writes what it's like to sort of grow up when

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Speaker 1: you're handed a name that indicates that you must already

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Speaker 1: have your future laid out for you. I will just

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Speaker 1: encourage you to listen to this interview. It's a very

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Speaker 1: candid conversation. Very much. I feel like I don't I

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Speaker 1: don't know him before. I didn't know him before this,

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Speaker 1: But he doesn't strike me that he was BS and me,

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Speaker 1: And that's the way I would put it. I think

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Speaker 1: it's a fascinating conversation, and he's interested in charting his

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Speaker 1: own path politically, and it's let's just say, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot to dig in. And as you know, I'm obsessed

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Speaker 1: with all things going on in Michigan these days inside

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Speaker 1: the Michigan Democratic Party and all the tumult there where

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Speaker 1: you have a former Democrat run. He's an independent for

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Speaker 1: governor that very competitive and probably going to be increasingly

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Speaker 1: nasty Democratic primary for the Senate that is going to

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Speaker 1: be definitional perhaps on the near term future Democratic primary

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Speaker 1: debates going into the presidential race. So it's just a

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Speaker 1: very rich conversation. I encourage you to have it. Also

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Speaker 1: this episode, I have a fantastic top five list or

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Speaker 1: maybe a depressing top five list, depending on your point

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Speaker 1: of view, but it's a fun one, I think. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you so in case you really are so

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Speaker 1: excited you want to quickly jump to it, which is

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Speaker 1: the top five laws that used to be that you

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Speaker 1: won't believe used to be legal when it came to politics,

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Speaker 1: and then a top five list of things that we

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Speaker 1: ought to make that fifty years from now someone's going

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Speaker 1: to say, I can't believe you guys let this that

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Speaker 1: this was as legal as long as it was. So

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Speaker 1: we'll get to that. Do a few questions, but bottom

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Speaker 1: line are pretty robust episodes. Let me start with sort

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Speaker 1: of the state of politics in twenty twenty six, because

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Speaker 1: we've had a lot of movement. Probably the most significant

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Speaker 1: disaster has been averted for the Republicans. And what do

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Speaker 1: I mean? Susan Collins finally announced that she is definitely

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Speaker 1: going to run for reelection. Had there had been certainly

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Speaker 1: she had done, she had taken a while to confirm

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Speaker 1: that she was running for reelection. There were starting to

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Speaker 1: become some growing concern in some Republican circles that the

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Speaker 1: entire national electoral atmosphere was getting to her that look,

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Speaker 1: she want to run in what is the most uphill

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Speaker 1: race she's ever had to run. Right, She's never been

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Speaker 1: simultaneously unpopular with Republicans and unpopular with Democrats. She certainly

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Speaker 1: has has made some conservatives angry in the days, but

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Speaker 1: it's usually come the loss of that vote has come

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Speaker 1: with the gain of votes of center or even center

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Speaker 1: left voters in the state of Maine. But since her Cavanaugh,

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Speaker 1: since since her Cavanaugh support, and a few other things,

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Speaker 1: she is in some ways. You know, used to be

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Speaker 1: Lisa Murkowski in Susan Collins, it was almost they were interchangeable.

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Speaker 1: They're not so interchangeable anymore. I think Lisa Murkowski really

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Speaker 1: is more of a political independent than a partisan. I

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Speaker 1: think she almost says it herself. She coxes with Republicans

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Speaker 1: because that's where she's caucused. You know, one of the

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Speaker 1: more intriguing potential post election storylines I think of twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty six is if Democrats net three seats and it's

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Speaker 1: a fifty to fifty Senate with j Evans breaking the tie.

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Speaker 1: I promise you before that Senate is sworn in, Chuck

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Speaker 1: Schumer and other Democrats are going to be all over

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Speaker 1: Lisa Murkowski to see if they can get her to

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Speaker 1: switch parties. So, you know, there's always been a small

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Speaker 1: part of me that thinks that Democrats actually have to

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Speaker 1: need three sentence seats get to fifty to fifty than

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Speaker 1: at that point they might be able to convince Lisa

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Speaker 1: Murkowski to hand power over to the Democrats. Will that happen? Unlikely?

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Speaker 1: Is that more probable possible than people realize? Yes, it is.

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Speaker 1: She herself has opened that door, Lisa Murkowski.

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Speaker 2: That is so.

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Speaker 1: The point is with Susan Collins. Look, what's interesting about

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Speaker 1: the Susan Collins development is the fact that Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: will simultaneously complain about Susan Collins when she votes against

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Speaker 1: him on certain things, but does not get so angry

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Speaker 1: that he searches for a challenger. Right. He found a

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Speaker 1: primary challenger to Murkowski, Right, and that's when she ended

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Speaker 1: up running and winning as a write in. And you know,

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Speaker 1: there was tea party movement. They've tried to get rid

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Speaker 1: of Makowski and they have failed. He has never done

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Speaker 1: that with Susan Collins. It's almost as if even though

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Speaker 1: there's sort of a mini Trump in that state in

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Speaker 1: Paula Page, the former governor who's running for the what

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Speaker 1: is now an open second congressional district with Jared Golden

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Speaker 1: not seeking reelection, and yet that is never that it is.

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Speaker 1: It's fascinating that Republicans in the Senate on the campaign

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Speaker 1: side of things, Tim Scott John Thune in particular, have

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Speaker 1: been able to get him to be pragmatic about Susan Collins.

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Speaker 1: But really, nowhere else does he get this pragmatic right.

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Speaker 1: He has not been this pragmatic in Louisiana, He's not

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Speaker 1: been this pragmatic in Texas, but he's willing to be

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Speaker 1: this pragmatic. Wasn't willing to be this pragmatic in North Carolina,

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Speaker 1: but he was willing to be this pragmatic in May.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps they realized she is the only candidate that can

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Speaker 1: remotely have a chance at winning. I'm pretty pessimistic about

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Speaker 1: her chances because she is entering this campaign with sort

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Speaker 1: of the She's acquiring the same problem that Mitch McConnell

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Speaker 1: and Chuck Schumer are both experiencing in poll numbers to

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Speaker 1: this day, and that is the base of her own

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Speaker 1: party is not happy with her, and the base of

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Speaker 1: the other party is very angry with her. Right, Mitch

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Speaker 1: McConnell's numbers are extraordinarily low, or we're extraordinarily low, because

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Speaker 1: he simultaneously had the entire Democratic Party hating him and

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Speaker 1: the Trump wing of the Republican Party not liking him,

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Speaker 1: So it made his negatives look even worse. Chuck Schumer

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Speaker 1: is starting to experience that where the base of the

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Speaker 1: Democratic Party is no fan of Chuck Schumer these days,

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Speaker 1: and they are more likely to rate him negatively than positively.

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Speaker 1: And of course the entire Republican Party is pretty nenti Schumer,

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Speaker 1: so it in some ways makes his numbers look worse.

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Speaker 1: And that's the situation that that I wonder while she's

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Speaker 1: I don't think Susan Collins has got the super negatives

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Speaker 1: on the right, she does so on the left. And

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Speaker 1: and this is the first time where I don't think

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Speaker 1: she starts, you know, she starts easily with the lowest

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Speaker 1: personal favorable rating that she's ever had in trying to

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Speaker 1: seek reelection. So I think this is an uphill battle

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Speaker 1: for her. But the fact of the matter is, had

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Speaker 1: she not sought reelection, the seat's done.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: If anything, it just becomes a you know, it's the

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Speaker 1: big primary fight between Graham Platner and Janet Mills. Now

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Speaker 1: that's not the case, and it makes you know, this

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Speaker 1: is probably a good day for Janet Mills. H If

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Speaker 1: there is a if, if there's a growing belief that

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Speaker 1: that Graham Plattner's mouth has gotten him in too much

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Speaker 1: trouble and it provides too much baggage, and that it's

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Speaker 1: the wrong the wrong profile to be running against Collins,

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Speaker 1: you know that there will be the conventional wisdom crowd

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Speaker 1: will gravitate more to Mills. Now I'm sort of torn

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Speaker 1: on this, right, I think there is an out I

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Speaker 1: think we're in an outsider insider phase and if you're

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Speaker 1: the outsider, you're in a better position than if you're

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Speaker 1: the insider. Right, And in some ways, Grant Platner could

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Speaker 1: run the campaign he runs against Mills. It's the same

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Speaker 1: campaign he runs against Collins. And my guess is that's

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Speaker 1: the campaign he tries to do. As a primary voter,

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Speaker 1: Mills has a tougher job. She's got to both defend

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Speaker 1: a little bit of her own incumbency and then at

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Speaker 1: the same time, you know, does she is it just

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Speaker 1: purely a character campaign against Platner, which doesn't always work

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Speaker 1: in competitive primaries, so it's it's complicated. I think it

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Speaker 1: certainly will help her financially, help her organizationally. That's Janet Mills.

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Speaker 1: But if you're Platner, you do get to put the

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Speaker 1: campaign together. That was sort of where it's very much

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Speaker 1: emblematic of what Trump did in sixteen, right. He he

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Speaker 1: ran against both the Bushes and the Clintons all at

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Speaker 1: the same time, so it gave him a little extra

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Speaker 1: appeal from that sort of outsider. And you know, I

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Speaker 1: always think about the main independent as sort of the

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Speaker 1: In my head, I always think of the Petrick Farm guy.

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Speaker 1: That that the cranky and this is I'm going to

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Speaker 1: date myself, but some of you will remember the sad

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Speaker 1: campaign of the cranky old man who used to sell

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Speaker 1: Petrick Farm cookies. That's you know that, you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of a crank. And I always think of the New

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Speaker 1: England crank a little bit, and it's, you know, that's

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Speaker 1: the that's the main swing voter. There's a little crankiness

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Speaker 1: to him. And I do think Platner and Collins both

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Speaker 1: know how to appeal to that cranky, cranky person. But

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Speaker 1: I do think that that's so it's it's you know,

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Speaker 1: is this is this a left right election or is

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Speaker 1: this an inside outside election right? And I think if

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Speaker 1: it's the inside outside thing is what I think is

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Speaker 1: is Platiner's is Platiner's strength there. But either way, it

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Speaker 1: the fact is, you know, Republicans are breathing a huge

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Speaker 1: sigh of relief, especially given in a week where the

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Speaker 1: developments in Texas are just terrible for them. Right, You've

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Speaker 1: got Ken Paxton getting the endorsement of the Turning Point organization,

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Speaker 1: just giving him his first sort of first sort of

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Speaker 1: official endorsement from more of the Trump wing of the party.

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Speaker 1: Trump hasn't weighed in yet, but it is it is,

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Speaker 1: you know, I am I am surprised Turning Point wants

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Speaker 1: to associate themselves with Ken Paxton and his questionable character,

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Speaker 1: not just personal morals, professional ethics like that. I you know,

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Speaker 1: I thought they might stay out considering how competitive this

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Speaker 1: primary is in but that maybe just driven by a

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Speaker 1: rank and file, could be driven by donors. But either way,

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Speaker 1: it's a big get for Paxxton because it kind of

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Speaker 1: like he hasn't gotten many endorsements. He seems to me

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Speaker 1: like an illegitimate candidate for office, given that he was impeached,

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Speaker 1: although he never was not convicted, but the stuff around

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Speaker 1: him is really some ugly stuff.

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Speaker 2: So I am.

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Speaker 1: Mildly surprised that they went with him, though I know

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Speaker 1: that as far as the type of the way he

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Speaker 1: wants to pursue conservative a little bit of that pugilistic,

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Speaker 1: aggressive nature of politics is something I think that appeals

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Speaker 1: to Turning Point the Turning Point crowd a little bit.

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Speaker 1: But I thought maybe they wouldn't want to be associated

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Speaker 1: with what is Paxton's really questionable morals and ethics on

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Speaker 1: that one. But look, that's either way. Republicans do have

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Speaker 1: a mess on their hands in Texas, and the only

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Speaker 1: thing that they've got going from in Texas is that

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Speaker 1: the Democrats have a bit of a mess, and the

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Speaker 1: last thing they need is a racially divisive primary on

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Speaker 1: that side. And it's Tallerico's trying to calm the waters

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Speaker 1: there after he was quoted as insulting Colin already, a

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Speaker 1: former Senate candidate who's now running for a congressional seat.

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Speaker 1: And look, already I think there was some hope pre

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Speaker 1: slight from tallar Rico that already would have supported tol Rico.

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Speaker 1: I think ideologically he fit there. But now he's a

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Speaker 1: Jasmine Crockett supporter, so you do have that mess there.

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Speaker 1: The other interesting development over the week is Alexander Vinman,

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Speaker 1: the retirement retired Army lieutenant colonel, kicked off his Florida

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Speaker 1: Senate bid. He's, of course, was he was the whistleblower

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Speaker 1: that helped launch the first impeachment on Trump when it

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Speaker 1: came to the quid pro quote that Trump was demanding

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Speaker 1: from Zelenski during twenty eighteen twenty nineteen. You know, we'll

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Speaker 1: see I don't think of Vinman as a Floridian, but

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Speaker 1: you know that is not We've we've had Floridians, you know,

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Speaker 1: are Floridians are used to people sort of parachuting into

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Speaker 1: campaigns that you didn't know they were Florida natives. You're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know Rick Scott was a Floridian or I

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Speaker 1: didn't know, you know, So it is not unusual for that.

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Speaker 1: And there's there can be a penalty in a primary

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Speaker 1: maybe if it's a local race, but there's less of

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Speaker 1: a penalty for for sort of becoming a new Floridian

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Speaker 1: on the on the state wide race. It's same in

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Speaker 1: Arizona Nevada. It's like the states where there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who aren't native who move, who choose

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Speaker 1: to move there. You know, politically, that's a problem if

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Speaker 1: you're a newcomer in a Michigan or even in a

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Speaker 1: South Carolina or a Mississippi or an Arkansas. It is

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Speaker 1: not a penalty if you're a Floridian an Arizona. I mean,

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Speaker 1: look at Arizona senators, most of them. You know. John

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Speaker 1: McCain you know, was hit with being a carpetbagger when

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Speaker 1: he first ran, and he said, you're right. The place

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Speaker 1: I've had residents the longest was in the Hanoi Hilton,

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Speaker 1: So you know it, it sort of blew up in

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Speaker 1: their face when they hit den Mark. Kelly was able

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Speaker 1: to dodge. You know that he was a newcomer as well.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of an accept you know, it's accepted there

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Speaker 1: because there's a lot of residents in those states that

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Speaker 1: choose to move there. But Vinman can raise some money nationally,

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Speaker 1: and he might be able to raise a ton of money,

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Speaker 1: and I you know, I think this is one of

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Speaker 1: those on the on the watch list because you do

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Speaker 1: have an appointed senator situation there in Ashley Moody, and

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Speaker 1: that's you know, she's just not as well known yet.

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Speaker 1: So let's see if Vinman can raise money closer to

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Speaker 1: how val Demmings did against Marco Ruby. And now, look

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Speaker 1: DEM's don't do well against Rubio at the ballot box,

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Speaker 1: but financially she she raised quite a bit of money.

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Speaker 1: Whether Vinman can do that is he sort of is

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Speaker 1: it too old of an impeachment for people to care

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Speaker 1: in the blue donor world. We'll see. But that's a

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Speaker 1: that's an intriguing potential development. And it's sort of like

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Speaker 1: I said, you sort of keep an eye on it.

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Speaker 1: You check in, you see if if it has much. Look,

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Speaker 1: Vinman is the profile of the type of Democrat that

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Speaker 1: can win in light red states. I think the fair

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Speaker 1: question is is Florida's still a light red state. I

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Speaker 1: think it still is, but we're going to we'll find

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Speaker 1: out this cycle how light red it is. Right. I

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Speaker 1: expect Republicans to win most of those state wide offices,

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Speaker 1: but is it with fifty two to fifty three or

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Speaker 1: is it with fifty seven to fifty eight? Right? And

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Speaker 1: that tells you light red dark red?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: In a national environment like this, that's going to have

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Speaker 1: the win that the Democrats back. You know, it's if democrat.

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Speaker 1: If Democrats can't hold Republicans to the low fifties in

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Speaker 1: an environment like this in Florida, then maybe it will

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Speaker 1: be time to write the state off for state wide election.

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Speaker 1: So he is a good profile of a candidate that

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Speaker 1: you'd be looking for. I'm that fund. This episode of

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Speaker 1: And then one other development sort of builds on what

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Speaker 1: I said on Monday, and I turned it into my

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Speaker 1: substack newsletter lead on Tuesday is the fact that the House.

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Speaker 1: I think the House has slipped away from the Republicans.

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Speaker 1: I think the question now isn't whether Democrats get control

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Speaker 1: of the House. The question is whether it's by a

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Speaker 1: big margin or a small margin. And when you just look,

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Speaker 1: it's just more the data is screaming it right. We've

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Speaker 1: hit fifty one open seats, right, Thirty of them or

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Speaker 1: Republican open seats. Twenty of them are Democratic open seats.

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Speaker 1: But the fact that we've crossed fifty this is only

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Speaker 1: a third time ever we've had this many retirements, and

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Speaker 1: the other two times saw massive turnover and massive gains

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Speaker 1: for the out party, if you will, including a flip

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Speaker 1: in eighteen for the Democrats and a near and then

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Speaker 1: essentially what happened in ninety two when you had sixty

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Speaker 1: five open seats, and I'm going to get to that

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Speaker 1: a little bit later in this broadcast, that it's still

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Speaker 1: led to huge churn, which of course gave Republicans the

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Speaker 1: moment them to end up picking flipping the House for

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Speaker 1: the first time in forty odd years, come nineteen ninety four.

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Speaker 1: So and when you look there, I've put some great

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Speaker 1: charts in the substact you used to take a look

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Speaker 1: at it of just everything is pointing towards a Democratic flip.

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Speaker 1: The only thing preventing this at this point is something

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Speaker 1: changes the entire political environment right a massive And you know,

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Speaker 1: when you look at the two exceptions of when the

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Speaker 1: party in the White House in the last sort of

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Speaker 1: fifty years that the Party in the White House actually

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Speaker 1: did well in a midterm, you had two outside events

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Speaker 1: that totally scrambled the sort of the normal pattern of

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Speaker 1: American politics ninety eight and the Monica Lewinsky scandal, an

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Speaker 1: impeachment attempt which boomeranged on Republicans and ended up helping Democrats.

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Speaker 1: And then twenty oh two, the first election that we

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Speaker 1: held post nine to eleven, which where George W. Bush

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Speaker 1: was still sitting over sixty percent. Essentially, both Bill Clinton

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Speaker 1: and George W. Bush in those two midterms approval ratings

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Speaker 1: in the sixties. So then you have to ask yourself,

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Speaker 1: what would it take for Donald Trump's approval rating? Forget

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Speaker 1: the sixties, what would it take for him to get

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Speaker 1: to fifty or fifty one. Well, the only thing you

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Speaker 1: can think of is some sort of crisis where there's

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Speaker 1: a rally around the flag effect, and he certainly makes

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Speaker 1: it a little bit harder I think, for Independence to

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Speaker 1: rally around him, But it would have to be something

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Speaker 1: outside an extraordinary event. The point is all the data

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Speaker 1: here is showing the only thing we don't know is

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Speaker 1: it a small Democratic majority, is are going to be

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Speaker 1: a big one. And what's interesting there is Democrats are

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Speaker 1: starting to feel cocky. The d tripleC just on Tuesday

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Speaker 1: morning added five new seats to their target list, and

430
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Speaker 1: they were all seats that Trump won by double digits.

431
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 1: In these new seats that they added, including Ryan Zinke's

432
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: seat in Montana, which I think is an interesting one,

433
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: a more rural, the old Tim Wall's seat that went

434
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 1: Republican in Minnesota's first district, the open Charleston seat, the

435
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: Nancy May seat in South Carolina, one which was held

436
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: by a Democrat a couple of times this century, Joe Cunningham,

437
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 1: a retired member of Congress there, but it actually had

438
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: been redistricted and made a bit more Republican. So the

439
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 1: fact that they think they can get that on the

440
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 1: ballot and then they throw a Virginia seat in there, which,

441
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: of course Virginia is all getting scrambled. Is the Democrats

442
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 1: are redrawing a map that's going to make it very

443
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 1: beneficial to them. But the point is is that when

444
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 1: you look at this political environment we've seen the special elections,

445
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: I do think any district that Donald Trump carried with

446
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: fifty nine percent or less is theoretically in play as

447
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: long as his approval ratings are sitting at forty four

448
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,120
Speaker 1: and below. And that's the situation we're staring at, which

449
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 1: is why you see Democrats doing that. I think the

450
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: thing to watch on the Republican side is when do

451
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: they get to when do they get to the point

452
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 1: that Democrats got to in twenty twenty two, there was

453
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 1: a point where Democrats knew they were going to lose

454
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 1: the House. So then it became a mitigation, right, you

455
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: were just mitigating your losses. And they started messing around

456
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 1: on Republican primaries and they got some really bad nomine

457
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: helped get some really bad Republican nominees into general elections,

458
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: which allowed them to win in some places that they

459
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have won had literally there just been a

460
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: generic Republican on the ticket. I think you're going to

461
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 1: see because the only thing standing in the way of

462
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: Democrats having a big night versus a small knight is

463
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 1: if they have flawed nominees, and if they somehow the

464
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: nominees are so flawed that Republicans can make those flaws

465
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: part of the general election conversation. Right, the more this

466
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: is a referendum on Trump and the more generic the

467
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: messaging is on a national front, advantaged Democrats if Republicans

468
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,479
Speaker 1: can somehow, and it may only be a race by

469
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: race situation, but you want to put yourself and what

470
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: Democrats did in twenty two by mitigating, by getting involved

471
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: in Republican primaries, they were able to limit their losses

472
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 1: and make both twenty four and twenty six biable campaigns

473
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: to try to win control of Congress. That's the situation

474
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: Republicans find. They just they can't afford to let this

475
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: slip away. They can't afford Democrats picking up twenty five

476
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: to forty seats, right, because that gives them padding going

477
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: into twenty eight, and it probably cements a House majority

478
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: at least for two cycles. I know, we've been very

479
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: tumultuous over the last over the century. In fact, if

480
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 1: the House changes hands again, this will be the fifth

481
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: time the House has changed hands this century. The House

482
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: only changed hands twice in fifty in the last fifty

483
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 1: years of the twentieth century, so we are definitely living

484
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: in more tumultuous times. Finally, I want to close a

485
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:03,640
Speaker 1: little bit on the absurdity. It's sort of and I'm

486
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: going to come at this from my crankiness about about

487
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: politics and about congressional politics, which is, you know, do

488
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: you are you trying to pass a bill or are

489
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,360
Speaker 1: you trying to raise money? And when the Democrats had there,

490
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: And what I want to do is I want to

491
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: do a little comparison here. Right, the Republicans are trying

492
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: to shove through this SAVE Act. It's called the Safeguard

493
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: American Voter Eligibility Act, and it's been boiled down to

494
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: just this is about voter ID. It's not about voter

495
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 1: I D if this were simply about voter ID, like

496
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: should you have to show voter ID at the polls

497
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: to get your ballot? Which I do in the state

498
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: of Virginia. Quite a few states already mandate this. Let's

499
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: say you said that at the fedigram and that and

500
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: that it was just a standalone bill, not you have

501
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: to produce a birth certificate. I'm just saying, just produce

502
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: your you know, a passport or driver's license or you

503
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: know ID before you get your ballot. You get bipartis

504
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: and support to that. But that is not what this

505
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: bill does. This bill wants to complicate the ability to

506
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: even register to vote. Right. Look, it's difficult to go

507
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: get a driver's license and you've got to prove you've

508
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: got to bring a birth certificate. I remember that's the

509
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: last I think the last time you bring a birth certificate,

510
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: driver's license, and potentially to get a passport. We've never

511
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: had it be used to try to get a voter

512
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: registration card. And so that that's, you know, among the

513
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: things it's trying to do. And the thing is is

514
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: that both parties took their voter bills right. The Democrats

515
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: essentially wanted to what they really wanted to do with

516
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: their first HR one right, what was the thing that

517
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: had the most support, But what had most support is

518
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: to create a minimum amount of windows for early voting

519
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: in all fifty states. Right, you're not mandating that it

520
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: has to be this way in all but a minimum

521
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: like fifteen days. That you've got to provide a fifteen

522
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: days of early voting windows. But then how you go

523
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: about doing it is up to you. Do you want

524
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: to do it in person, you want to do it,

525
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: whatever it is. But they threw in this other stuff, right,

526
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: the Democrats wanted to do public funding of elections, which

527
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: was not very popular. They wanted to throw in other

528
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: things like that. And that's the thing. Both parties are

529
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: using these election bills to put other stuff in there.

530
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: They're not interested in actually passing and actually passing it. Instead,

531
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: there's all these poison pills. I think the if Democrats

532
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: had simply pursued and this is where I get this

533
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: is where can't we have some pragmatism in any of

534
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: our politics, in any of our election rules. If you

535
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: gave a bill that did the following, Okay, you had

536
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,719
Speaker 1: a show voter idea to go to the polls, and

537
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: then you did what Democrats want, which is every voter

538
00:30:58,160 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: in every state would have the right to vote by

539
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: mail for any reason, no excuse absentee voting, and fifteen

540
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: days of early voting. You do that and maybe you

541
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: agree that, Hey, and you've got to get your battled

542
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 1: in by election day. There's no there's no fudging that, right,

543
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: you got to put that you vote. I d there is,

544
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: you know, in the old days of give each side

545
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: gets something that they care about, but that that isn't

546
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: what anybody's interested in. Nobody seems to be that interested

547
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: in actually passing any of these reforms. And the only

548
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,239
Speaker 1: way you're going to get reforms like this is if

549
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: you do one at a time and you start from

550
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: the middle out, and you know, and you start from

551
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 1: sort of common sense pragmatism. People want convenience voting. We're

552
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: very busy. They want that and they do. Hey, we

553
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: show our ID almost everywhere else. They don't think that

554
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: that's an extra burden. But again, right, this is not

555
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: about showing your birth certificate. And that is So the

556
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: point is is that there's a there's a path here

557
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: to pass sort of pragmatic, reasonable reforms that both create

558
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: more conveniences to voting. And I know some philosophically think

559
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:15,479
Speaker 1: other you shouldn't make voting convenient, right, but hey, you know,

560
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: we live in a very very large and diverse country.

561
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: And I promise you if you put it, if you

562
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: made everybody vote on the same day, it would take

563
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: even longer for election days to finish, it would take

564
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: even longer to count our votes, and there would be

565
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: a lot more distrust to it. So there is a

566
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 1: path to do some common sense reforms. If Republicans really

567
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: cared about voter id the most as much they say it,

568
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: they do it as a standalone vote. And if Democrats

569
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: cared enough just simply about allowing for more access to

570
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: voting so that there's more opportunity for vote by mail

571
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: and more opportunity for early voting, they'd have made it

572
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: stand alone. But they didn't make it. Neither side made

573
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: it stand alone. The poison pills that were involved in

574
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: either the Save Act or the HR one were features,

575
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: not bucks. And yes, you can jam it through in

576
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: the House, because the House is always the most partisan

577
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: side for either party, and it is the Senate where

578
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: you have a harder time doing this. But if you

579
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: did this piecemeal, you'd have a better idea, and you

580
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: might have you might have a stronger leg to stand

581
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 1: on when you accuse the other side of not being

582
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: interested in these In these issues. All right, I'm gonna

583
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: put a pin in there, so I just like I said,

584
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: I had a pot poree of campaign stuff that I

585
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: thought was worthy of a bit up chewing over for

586
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: a few minutes with you guys. But now we'll stake

587
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: it a break. And my conversation with John Conyer's the

588
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: third on his book that is about his father, the

589
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: legendary congressman from Michigan of the Civil rights era, but

590
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: as much about the culture of growing up in a

591
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: political world and sort of at birth being given a

592
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: name that suddenly makes you think you already have your

593
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: career path in front of you. Like I said, it's

594
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: an interesting and candid conversation. I think you'll enjoy it.

595
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 1: I'll see on the other side. This episode of the

596
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 1: Chuck Podcast is brought to you by American Financing. Let's

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646
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647
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648
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:20,360
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649
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:25,000
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650
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,279
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651
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: insurance is something you should really think about, especially if

652
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 1: you've got a growing family. So when you see the

653
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: title of this book written by my next guest here,

654
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,919
Speaker 1: it's called My Father's House, and you see the last

655
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:49,320
Speaker 1: name of Conyers, and you're a political sophisticate or junkie

656
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: like myself, you probably think you already know what kind

657
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 1: of book this is. Oh, it must be a political biography,

658
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: a celebration, a civil rights victory lab maybe even a

659
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 1: defense of some sort. This book is none of these.

660
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: This isn't really a book about John Conyers, the legendary

661
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: member of Congress from Detroit, even though he was one

662
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: of the most consequential figures of the modern civil rights era.

663
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 1: What this is is a book about what it's like

664
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: to grow up inside power, to inherit a legacy. You

665
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 1: didn't choose to live in a house built by history,

666
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: and to discover that some rooms were never safe to

667
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,959
Speaker 1: enter and some conversations were never allowed to happen. John

668
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 1: Conyer's third doesn't write as an apologist, and he doesn't

669
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: write as a provocateur either. He writes as a son

670
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,760
Speaker 1: trying to understand how a public giant could be both

671
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:43,399
Speaker 1: indispensable to a movement and deeply complicated in private. This

672
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,959
Speaker 1: is a fascinating book, and it's and John Conyre's a third,

673
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: the son of the late John Conyers Junior, really opened

674
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: himself up in here. And John Conyer's the third author

675
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: of My Father's House, joins me. Now, John, good to

676
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:01,919
Speaker 1: see you.

677
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 2: To see you as well, Thank you for having me.

678
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 2: It's an honor to be here.

679
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 1: Well, let me start with that introduction I gave your

680
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 1: book because look, I opened it assuming one thing, and

681
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 1: after going through it, you're like, Okay, I'm you wrote

682
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: a book that I wish Al Gore had written. You

683
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: wrote a book that I've always wanted to know if

684
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: Harold Ford Jr. Wanted to write this. I really am

685
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: fascinated by those who basically were raised in power. Right,

686
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: it wasn't a choice, Right, Your career path was destined

687
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: for you perhaps, or or at least the path was

688
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: cleared if you chose to take it. Yeah, I think

689
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 1: you offered an insider account in a way that I'd

690
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 1: never seen before. So I'll shut up now and tell me.

691
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: Tell me whether that intro did capture the book.

692
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 3: It captured it well. First, I would say that I

693
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 3: would offer and thank you for grasping that nuance. So

694
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 3: many of the conversations that I've had about the book

695
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 3: to the point you made about assuming or presuming that

696
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 3: it would be strictly about my father, the conversations have

697
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 3: been just that, only about him. And I don't know

698
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 3: whether the whether the interview or only read for that.

699
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 3: But what's tucked away in the book is like a

700
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 3: young person trying to make sense of this world and

701
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 3: make sense of this going between two worlds which I

702
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,760
Speaker 3: touch on my mother's side of the family still being

703
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 3: somewhat in poverty, and me being trapped between these two

704
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 3: spaces and trying to make sense of.

705
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 2: It all and find my place of it all. But yeah,

706
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I'll start with I never intended to write a.

707
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 1: Book that was going to be And would you have

708
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: written this if he were alive?

709
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 3: No, I would have it would have this book would

710
00:40:57,719 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 3: have never been written by me if the things that

711
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 3: happened into seventeen don't happen. He we had we had

712
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 3: a book deal on the table with Hawshit, and it

713
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:10,399
Speaker 3: was a very considerable book deal. And then literally as

714
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 3: we were finalizing and negotiating, all those things happened, and

715
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 3: so everything fundamentally changes.

716
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is when all those allegations get you know.

717
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 1: You not to lead with that, but no, and I

718
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: wasn't intending to do it. But it's funny you bring

719
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 1: it up. I have this. I have a small odd

720
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 1: story that goes with this, where the day that your

721
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: father announced that he was resigning, it was a Sunday morning. Yep.

722
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 1: I remember it quite well because I had Nancy Pelosi

723
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: on Meet the Press mm hm. The report had gotten out.

724
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 2: She did not know this yet, which.

725
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 1: I found, or at least she claimed she didn't. I

726
00:41:56,719 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: don't quite know, and it really created quite the weird

727
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 1: Put it this way, she never would sit down with

728
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 1: an interview with me again over the circumstances of it,

729
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 1: because she was upset that she was supposed to be

730
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 1: on to talk about one thing. This happened, and of

731
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: course it's breaking news, and you know, she didn't like

732
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: you know, the news business can be inconvenient to politicians.

733
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: I get it, you know that that sort of but

734
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,879
Speaker 1: it was, you know, it was just it's just one

735
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 1: of those She was always upset that she didn't get

736
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: to talk about what she wanted to talk about in

737
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:39,959
Speaker 1: that moment. But boy, since we're there, take me there.

738
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 1: Did he feel pressure to resign? I always got the

739
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:43,800
Speaker 1: sense he didn't want to resign.

740
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 3: Oh, I guess she's not running again.

741
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: I'll be tackful.

742
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:50,720
Speaker 2: I'll be tactful. I won't.

743
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 3: I will.

744
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 2: The breaking news that you got.

745
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 3: That you confronted her with. Talk about the butterfly effect.

746
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,919
Speaker 3: There was, and I allude to it in the book.

747
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 3: I don't address it directly because that member of my

748
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 3: family and I have men defenses, so I tried very

749
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:16,280
Speaker 3: hard not to do anything that will, you know, harm

750
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 3: that relationship or cause another fissure, if you will. But

751
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 3: that person was on the outside looking in, and the

752
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 3: moment they were they got a little bit of daylight,

753
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 3: and we gave them any bit of information. They ran,

754
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 3: and they was someone they went to college with was

755
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 3: a journalist at the New York Times. They tried to

756
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 3: get in front of me or my father announcing that

757
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 3: I would be running for.

758
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 2: A seat, which I had not decided yet.

759
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 3: I did not know if I wanted to run for

760
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 3: office or if I was ready. Part of why I

761
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,240
Speaker 3: had never run for office to that point was because

762
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 3: I knew who I was. I was a former songwriter.

763
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 3: My work experience started in the music business, and so

764
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 3: there's a there is a level of calming down or

765
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 3: a mellowing out that I was not fully prepared to

766
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 3: do coming from that lifestyle, which I knew was was

767
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 3: required to be in public office. And so that person says, yes,

768
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 3: my great uncle is retiring and I'm going to run

769
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 3: for his seat, which then turns into my pation that

770
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 3: you got yah, which then she confronted. She was confronted with,

771
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 3: but if we are being honest, which I didn't put

772
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 3: in the book because for a myriad of reasons, my

773
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 3: father was pressured to retire.

774
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,479
Speaker 2: Course he was, Yeah, and.

775
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 3: I think I think the frustrating thing is to the

776
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 3: point of the book, which it was never I shouldn't

777
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 3: say it was never supposed to happen, because it ultimately happened,

778
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 3: and I believe in all the things what's supposed to

779
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 3: happen happens.

780
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 2: We talked to my father about retiring.

781
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 3: Ten years prior to this, because he had a series

782
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 3: of strokes in two thousand and nine minus like small ones.

783
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 3: And so my uncle, my mother, my self and another

784
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 3: gentleman who lives in se sat down with him and

785
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 3: we were like, you know, you should retire, consider writing

786
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 3: a book. My father wouldn't hear it, primarily because I

787
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,800
Speaker 3: think when you think about like a professional athlete, or

788
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 3: even someone like yourself or Tony Kornheiser, who, like my

789
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 3: life is wrapped up in this thing that I do,

790
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 3: it's your identity.

791
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:18,320
Speaker 2: You No.

792
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:20,439
Speaker 1: I go back, you know, John, when I was a kid.

793
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: I remember the first instance of something like this happening

794
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,280
Speaker 1: for me in the memory I have is Bear Bryant.

795
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: Bear Bryan announces he's going to retire. The guy died

796
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 1: before the next football season. Joe Paterno resigns. He dies

797
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 1: before the start of the next football season, so there

798
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,879
Speaker 1: had been this. You do hear this, and I buy it.

799
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 1: I think when you're older, you're afraid that the minute

800
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: you don't have that reason to get up in the morning,

801
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: that it might all end. So I get it. I

802
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 1: understand why coaches hang on. I understand why journalists hang on.

803
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 1: But you know what, it never gets better. The exit

804
00:45:57,719 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: never gets better.

805
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 3: This is true, I think, and I think I would

806
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 3: say that, not not guilt, but I was diagnosed with

807
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 3: ADHD and being you know, also on the spectrum diagnosed

808
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 3: with that later in life.

809
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:17,320
Speaker 2: So there is the neurotypical way of communicating or.

810
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:24,799
Speaker 3: My ability to perceive things, or my awareness of my

811
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 3: difference in cognition coming to terms of that are being

812
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 3: able to perceive that so that I can act on

813
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 3: it and be more try to be more perceptive and

814
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 3: more present. Didn't come until one of them came prior

815
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 3: to my father's passing. The autism piece came on just

816
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 3: a year ago or two a year and a half

817
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 3: ago now, right, And so there are things that I

818
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 3: think my father was alive for maybe five years or

819
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 3: two years after his retirement. But there was a there

820
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 3: was a there was a top piece, a window that

821
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 3: I wish that I had more awareness of the kind

822
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 3: of mental things that I was grappling with to be

823
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 3: able to kind of take that mantle, because there was

824
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 3: an attempt to pass it to me and I wasn't aware.

825
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 3: I wasn't ready for it, if in no small part

826
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 3: because I couldn't perceive it for what it was in

827
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 3: the moment.

828
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 1: So talk about the decision to write this book, because

829
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: I'm sure, like, look, you you chose to make some

830
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 1: things public that I'm guessing not every member of your

831
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:30,240
Speaker 1: family wanted public.

832
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, but yeah, yes, sure, I think that I

833
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 3: wouldn't have been the book that I would feel comfortable

834
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 3: with if I didn't, though, because in order to there's

835
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 3: the perception of the person, as you very well know,

836
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 3: being a public person, there is the perception of who

837
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 3: you are and what your lived experiences and what your

838
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 3: life experience is.

839
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 2: Versus what the reality of it is.

840
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 3: So when you hear John Conyers, long serving black American

841
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 3: congressmen in American history, especially within the black community and

842
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 3: then especially within Detroit, there the people automatically conflate privileged

843
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 3: with wealth and privilege with money, and that is not

844
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,280
Speaker 3: my lived experience it's funny.

845
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 1: Well that's Washington for you. Right. You should have a

846
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: conversation with my son, because you know he's he's in

847
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,359
Speaker 1: college now and and he's starting to get this more

848
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: and he realizes this. But you know, he was called

849
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: you know, I grew up you know, pretty working class

850
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: is probably you know, grew up in apartment buildings and

851
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: all that stuff. And I had a good life. Okay,

852
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: my parents tried their best. And when my son got

853
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: hit for being a NEPO baby, I'm like, what right?

854
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: And and I'm sure and I and I always felt

855
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 1: terrible about that, like he doesn't get to be his

856
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: own person. And so I wonder this is clearly what

857
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: frustrates you is that you feel as if so many

858
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 1: people just assume they know who you are, who you

859
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: should be, just because of what your name is.

860
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 3: So I have coined a phrase now, or a phrase

861
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:12,760
Speaker 3: that I use when people say you have big shoes,

862
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:16,839
Speaker 3: if I said, legacy is not footwear. It's a direction, right,

863
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 3: good line, because so many people one the thing we

864
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 3: already talking about the perception of who you are.

865
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 2: They have this.

866
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 3: Projection onto you of like if they were you, what

867
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 3: they would have done and who they would be by now,

868
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 3: and all these things and then the other pieces of

869
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 3: the thing.

870
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:36,359
Speaker 2: That you're talking about with your with your son. It's like.

871
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 3: People don't even give give you the time of day,

872
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 3: and then it's always the goal post is always moving.

873
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 3: Like you know, even now when I tell people what

874
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 3: I've done, there is this there is this doubt or

875
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:51,399
Speaker 3: that's not enough, that like, well I've done all these things,

876
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 3: well that's not enough, or you only did them because

877
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:54,720
Speaker 3: of your dad, And it's like no.

878
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 1: Matter what you get, whatever it is, you get questioned

879
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 1: either you should have done more, or well whatever you did,

880
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 1: you started on third base.

881
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think and I'm even sensitive to talk

882
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:10,280
Speaker 3: about it now because of how it would be perceived.

883
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:12,879
Speaker 1: And I think you just you just come to there's

884
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 1: no good answer. You can't. And you know what I

885
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 1: would tell you, don't talk about it publicly. It's not fair,

886
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 1: but not you just can't because there are people who

887
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 1: have It goes to My wife's got this saying everybody's

888
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 1: problems are problems for them, and just because somebody else's

889
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 1: problems wouldn't be problems in your life doesn't mean they're

890
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 1: not problems in their life.

891
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 2: Correct, and yet we.

892
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,919
Speaker 1: Have a hard time. I can't tell you I'd love

893
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:43,760
Speaker 1: your problems, okay, and I probably love your problems.

894
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 2: You know, right.

895
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think the experience that I've had as

896
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 3: John Connors, that they're a part of it, is that

897
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 3: I feel a tremendous regardless of the the negative things

898
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:06,359
Speaker 3: that come with it and the challenges, I think I

899
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 3: feel a profound sense of responsibility and duty as primarily

900
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 3: as a generational bridge, because my father was so much

901
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,760
Speaker 3: older when he had me. I feel a profound, profound

902
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 3: sense of duty and responsibility to make sure that the generation,

903
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 3: my generation and those coming behind me understand that the

904
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,280
Speaker 3: things that they were born with, the rights and opportunities

905
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:28,919
Speaker 3: that they were born with, were not always that way,

906
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 3: and that we have a we have an obligation to

907
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 3: the people that came before us to not only maintain

908
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 3: but to further their work and to further the.

909
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 2: Freedoms that we have for young people that we gained

910
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 2: for young people.

911
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,720
Speaker 1: What did you learn about your dad in this product?

912
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 1: In the problem striding this book.

913
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 2: I learned so much. I mean, primarily, I think.

914
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 3: To bring to mention sports and thinking about Cornheiser, there's

915
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 3: a there's a there's a gentleman playing basketball right now

916
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:03,280
Speaker 3: who's the all time leading scorer that I think is amazing.

917
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 2: Do not?

918
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 3: I think he's the greatest basketball player of all time,

919
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:11,280
Speaker 3: primarily because like, if you are that person, the world

920
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 3: will tell you. You don't have to tell us, right, And

921
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 3: so I think that to make the analogy, my father

922
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 3: was someone who didn't have to tell you how great

923
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 3: he was. He would tell me stories, right, And what

924
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,799
Speaker 3: I learned in this process is that he's exactly who

925
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 3: he thought he was.

926
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 2: Right.

927
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 3: Like, when I'm hearing I think it's in the book

928
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:38,319
Speaker 3: the LBJ story about getting air Force one.

929
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 2: He told told me they start off the cuff, right.

930
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:43,319
Speaker 3: And mind you, I'm an adult now when he's telling

931
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 3: me the story, and I've Clinton's called the house at

932
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 3: two in the morning, all the things have happened, right,

933
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 3: So I know that he's important.

934
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 1: You've lived this. Let you're aware. Yeah, my dad hangs

935
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 1: out with presidents. That's what happens.

936
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, but this point in time, remember this point in

937
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 3: time when he's talking to LBJ, it's still still right movement.

938
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 3: He's not a senior member of Congress to be able

939
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 3: to call the president and say, hey, I need Air

940
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 3: Force one. But my dad's first chief of staff campaign

941
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 3: manager for his first campaign is telling me this story

942
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 3: independent of my dad, and I'm like, oh, wait, he's not.

943
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 2: This is just like, this is an everyday thing, is

944
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 2: just what I do.

945
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:26,879
Speaker 3: And to know to be privy to a person that

946
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 3: was able to move through the world like that and

947
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:36,439
Speaker 3: also not be boastful about it, to me, it's like, oh, yeah,

948
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 3: this is the model. And to know to learn all

949
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 3: these things about him that, like, it was just mind blowing.

950
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:43,879
Speaker 3: It's mind blowing.

951
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:48,319
Speaker 1: The remarkable thing to me when I think about our

952
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 1: politics today and our polarization of today, yeah, is we

953
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,879
Speaker 1: were really polarized in the nineteen fifties and sixties, more

954
00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:01,400
Speaker 1: so arguably than we are today. And yet there was

955
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:08,719
Speaker 1: optimism where we struggle to find optimism today, right. There

956
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:14,799
Speaker 1: was also and this is something that I think, what

957
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 1: did you learn learn about what I would call incrementalism?

958
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 1: Like there was always like, Okay, let's let's win this

959
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:23,799
Speaker 1: fight and we'll come back and fight another day, when

960
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 1: others in the movement would say let's get it all now.

961
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 1: So and to me, this is something progressive. Today's progressives

962
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 1: are having to relearn a story on how to how

963
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:41,480
Speaker 1: to win a long term political struggle versus and realizing

964
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 1: that you're not gonna win every short term fight, but

965
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:47,560
Speaker 1: how do you make every short term fight an attempt

966
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:49,360
Speaker 1: to move the needle long term?

967
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:52,319
Speaker 3: So this is I mean, I can I think about

968
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:53,920
Speaker 3: Actually I was just thinking about this other day, the

969
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 3: advent of Twitter and how I think that is added

970
00:54:56,000 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 3: to the polarization not just of the the electric but

971
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:06,399
Speaker 3: also be elected officials. But I think incrementalism is that's

972
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:08,320
Speaker 3: the way of that's everyone's way of life.

973
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 2: You don't go to the gym. You don't go to

974
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:11,839
Speaker 2: the gym on the first day and.

975
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 3: Walk out with washboard abs or able to you don't

976
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 3: walk into the gym.

977
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 2: When I started, I could only I.

978
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 1: Thought, if I inject something in my stomach, Now I

979
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:20,880
Speaker 1: get it within a couple of weeks.

980
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, that's true.

981
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 1: True, I mean, we are we are weird. We're still

982
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:28,720
Speaker 1: going to sell that dream regardless of whether it's true.

983
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 3: I think the polarization piece, and this is also part

984
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 3: of why I'm getting so engaged in politics. The way

985
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 3: I am these days, is that I was raising a

986
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 3: time where that wasn't the case. It was becoming that way, right.

987
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:46,719
Speaker 3: I remember, I remember riding in a car with my mom.

988
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 3: Was now I'm dating my even myself where they still

989
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,240
Speaker 3: have bench seats in the front in the front front seat.

990
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 1: Nothing like sitting in that middle seat right like where

991
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 1: you had to put the arm rests back up right

992
00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 1: the arms come down.

993
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 2: So I'm sitting in the middle. We're in DC, We're

994
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:03,799
Speaker 2: on Constitution AB.

995
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:08,800
Speaker 3: I'm looking directly at the Capitol building and I see,

996
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 3: I see between my mom and my dad listen to MPR.

997
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:14,360
Speaker 3: I forget what was on NPR, but it triggered my

998
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 3: father to say, it wasn't always like that. It wasn't

999
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:18,919
Speaker 3: like this until new Gingers became Speaker of the House,

1000
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:21,319
Speaker 3: where everything became a zero sum game, where it.

1001
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 2: Was my way or the highway.

1002
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 3: And I say that to say to the fully address

1003
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 3: her question. I think that the reason why my generation

1004
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 3: and younger feel that everything has to be won all

1005
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 3: at once is because number one, I think corporate involvement

1006
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 3: in politics and Democrats largely failing to deliver on promises.

1007
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 3: Although they do great some great things, they largely to

1008
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:51,360
Speaker 3: deliver on their promises. But then the second thing, to

1009
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:53,439
Speaker 3: the point I made about always having these rights, They've

1010
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 3: always had these things, so they don't know that it

1011
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:57,880
Speaker 3: was one over time because they.

1012
00:56:57,760 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 2: Were born with it.

1013
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:03,080
Speaker 3: And I think, again, this is why I feel such

1014
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:05,839
Speaker 3: a sense of urgency to be involved, because I'm one

1015
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:07,760
Speaker 3: of like I don't I can't think of another person,

1016
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 3: but I'm one of the only people that I know

1017
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:13,720
Speaker 3: of that is the son of a civil rights leader

1018
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 3: that is also a millennial that got it firsthand.

1019
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 2: I didn't read about it. It wasn't a story. It wasn't

1020
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 2: It wasn't.

1021
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 1: Because you're most of your peers are two generations removed.

1022
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 3: Yes, so I I I heard about this firsthand, one

1023
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 3: to one. My dad didn't say doctor King said, Martin

1024
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 3: called him. I called Jesse Jackson, Uncle Jesse. So I'm

1025
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 3: getting these stories from the actual guys. So to me

1026
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:38,520
Speaker 3: it feels like, oh, well, this is this is what

1027
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 3: we're supposed to do. It it happens over time. Whereas again,

1028
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 3: not to labor the point, but my peers they that's

1029
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 3: all that's what they know.

1030
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 2: How is, how.

1031
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 1: Would you say your relationships with your any your head,

1032
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 1: how is the relationship with your father.

1033
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 3: Now I got more questions than I got answered now

1034
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 3: after this book. I mean, I would love to uh,

1035
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 3: I would love to know more than anything, how how

1036
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:26,439
Speaker 3: he had the ability to forge a path and move

1037
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 3: forward on issues that were so far ahead of their time.

1038
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 2: In the In the it was there's a there's a

1039
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 2: there's a newsletter.

1040
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 3: You know, they have these things where they put something

1041
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 3: in the congressional record, And my dad did it via

1042
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 3: like a newsletter that he circulated to all the members

1043
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 3: of the House. And he was talking about the connection

1044
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 3: between poverty and crime, right, and that No, that wasn't

1045
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 3: a thing. That wasn't a thing back in the seventies

1046
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 3: that people often correlated, right, And and so I would

1047
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 3: love to know and have and be able to speak

1048
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 3: with them about how are you able to get out

1049
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 3: in front of these issues so early and then maintain

1050
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 3: the effort and the stamina to continue to fight for them,

1051
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 3: whether that's Medicare for All, whether that's reparations, whether that's

1052
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:17,640
Speaker 3: the MLK holiday, or even you know, one of his

1053
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 3: lesser known piece of legislation, the Humphrey Hawkins Full Employment Bill.

1054
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 3: These are things that like I just I want to

1055
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 3: know and sure we could we could distial it down.

1056
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 3: Well that's what was right, and that's what you do.

1057
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 3: But like that's not what everybody does, So why did

1058
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 3: you do it right? So most a lot of so

1059
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 3: many politicians, we know them, we've been in proximity to them.

1060
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:39,920
Speaker 3: They sell out, So why didn't you? That's what I

1061
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 3: would like to know.

1062
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:45,840
Speaker 1: My dad died when I was sixteen, and the list

1063
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 1: of questions I have for him. I'm fifty three now,

1064
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 1: like kids just like you know, and you know, I'm

1065
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 1: now flying blind for the first time, meaning my son

1066
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 1: is now older than I was, So suddenly I have

1067
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 1: a eye of a relationship with him that I can't emulate,

1068
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 1: meaning I can't look back on how did my father night?

1069
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 2: You know?

1070
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:08,800
Speaker 1: And we were fine up until and it's always been

1071
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 1: in the amount of questions in it. And it's that's

1072
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 1: why I asked that question when I asked about what

1073
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 1: your relationship with him grateful? It is like I'm still

1074
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:24,960
Speaker 1: you know, I miss him. That's my relationship with him.

1075
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 1: I miss them, you know.

1076
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:29,640
Speaker 3: So I would add I would say that I and

1077
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 3: what you said about you and your son triggered this

1078
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:33,960
Speaker 3: in my mind, is that I would say that I'm grateful.

1079
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:35,320
Speaker 2: I think that.

1080
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 3: I had having an older father was truly a blessing

1081
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 3: because I had him. He was young enough, like sixty

1082
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 3: one is not young, but he was young enough to.

1083
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 3: He was young enough to by the time I turned,

1084
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 3: you know, five and six, he was still able to

1085
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:54,080
Speaker 3: throw a ball, throw football with me.

1086
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 2: I played baseball with him.

1087
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 1: You have those memories.

1088
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, but my younger brother doesn't happen because my dad

1089
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:01,880
Speaker 3: was too old by that time.

1090
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:03,280
Speaker 2: Brother's five years or anything.

1091
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 3: Right, I would say that above all things he taught

1092
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 3: me through what he emulated is that it's okay to

1093
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 3: admit it wrong, it's okay to forgive people.

1094
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 2: It's like you and so you don't have to be

1095
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 2: you have.

1096
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 1: I think in life you get a lot of wisdom.

1097
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:19,720
Speaker 1: The older you get no matter what, So you got,

1098
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 1: you know, the upside of having an older father said,

1099
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 1: he lived more life.

1100
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

1101
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the advice is passing down. Hey, he's he's

1102
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:32,720
Speaker 1: been around the block, not just once or twice, you know, right,

1103
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:35,800
Speaker 1: but it's sort of like, look, just trust me, yeah right,

1104
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 1: we're all this way with our kids when they go

1105
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 1: off to college. You know, the longer they go to college.

1106
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:42,520
Speaker 1: The more they're the more they discover how right their

1107
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 1: parents were right. And it's but it you know, you

1108
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 1: have to make experience these things yourself many times. But

1109
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:51,959
Speaker 1: you really did have a luxury and an older father

1110
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 1: in that sense.

1111
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think the just the lessons that the

1112
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 2: lessons that he taught me stick with me.

1113
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:03,640
Speaker 3: And it's also kind of I'm grateful also to the

1114
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 3: group of friends that I've had that I have, because

1115
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 3: sometimes I would feel displaced because there's a level of

1116
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 3: emotional maturity you get by being raised by an older person.

1117
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 1: That I feel like you were always treated more like

1118
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 1: an adult, get a bit more adult settings.

1119
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 2: I always had yees, so I was correct.

1120
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 3: So I think that like when I once I found

1121
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 3: finally found my footing, especially in college, and I was

1122
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:27,680
Speaker 3: like I would say that I was a social butterfly

1123
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 3: for sure, but finding a group that truly fit everything,

1124
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:32,160
Speaker 3: I didn't have to explain myself or I didn't have

1125
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:37,000
Speaker 3: to say less to fit in that was that was amazing.

1126
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 3: And it was because of the things that I learned

1127
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 3: from him to be able to find the intellectually intellectual

1128
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:48,960
Speaker 3: friendships that match where I was, what.

1129
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 1: Kind of politician. Do you want people to see you

1130
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 1: as and do you do you want folks to compare

1131
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 1: you to your father?

1132
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:02,240
Speaker 3: So I was a philast major in college and Machiavelli

1133
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 3: talks about not following in the footsteps of a great man.

1134
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:09,360
Speaker 2: Not to contradict my earliest statement.

1135
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 3: But I think I don't know that I would compare

1136
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:21,320
Speaker 3: me to my father because we're operating and two extremely

1137
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 3: different times, although a lot of the similar issues.

1138
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 1: If directly, I know, sometimes we're so far away from

1139
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 1: the movement, it feels very familiar.

1140
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 3: It's directionally the same, right, But I think that the

1141
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 3: mechanism by which we organize and we bring people together

1142
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:41,080
Speaker 3: maybe a little different.

1143
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 1: But we are arguing about who's an American and what's America?

1144
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:47,520
Speaker 1: You know, what? How are we? You know?

1145
01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:51,680
Speaker 3: I would say that in that regard, then you sure

1146
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:53,800
Speaker 3: you could compare me to my father, and in so

1147
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:56,960
Speaker 3: far as I would like for all of Americans to

1148
01:03:57,120 --> 01:04:00,919
Speaker 3: understand uh and beyond and having honest conversation about who

1149
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:05,480
Speaker 3: and what built this country? Right, I think that, like

1150
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 3: it's a controversial thing on Instagram right now about the

1151
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:11,320
Speaker 3: artistship who you're saying that immigants built this country, and

1152
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:12,080
Speaker 3: that's just not true.

1153
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 2: Black American slaves built this country.

1154
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:18,400
Speaker 3: Now, immigrants have contributed largely immeasurably to the fabric of

1155
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 3: this nation. We can't whether it's the Irish immigrants, Italian immigrants, right,

1156
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 3: we can't, We cannot, you know, African American African immigrants.

1157
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:26,959
Speaker 2: We can't deny that.

1158
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:32,160
Speaker 3: But the foundations, the foundational building out of this country.

1159
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 3: This country would not have had the economic advantage it

1160
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:38,960
Speaker 3: has had without that of slavery.

1161
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 2: And so I would say that there are.

1162
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:42,959
Speaker 3: Ways in which you can compare me to my father,

1163
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:45,080
Speaker 3: but I would prefer folks not to although I know

1164
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 3: that that is inevitable. The type of politician I want

1165
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 3: to be, I don't know this last thing I'll say.

1166
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 2: I don't mean to be long winded. The type of

1167
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 2: politician I want to be.

1168
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:54,960
Speaker 1: We're doing a podcast, brother is why is.

1169
01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 3: One that brings people together? Where I learned from my

1170
01:04:56,960 --> 01:04:59,720
Speaker 3: father's we build coalitions. We bring a large group of

1171
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 3: people who have shared interests, similar interests. Right, we start

1172
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:05,280
Speaker 3: with where we where, where we agree. We don't focus

1173
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,920
Speaker 3: on where we disagreement, because where we find agreement is

1174
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 3: how we build power collectively. And once we find that

1175
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:12,760
Speaker 3: we can work together on the things we agree about,

1176
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 3: then we can come together and hash out strategically how

1177
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:18,240
Speaker 3: we work through our disagreements. And that's the type of

1178
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 3: politician I want to be. I think that's what's missing

1179
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 3: from our government across all levels around the country.

1180
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 1: One more personal question then I want to talk a

1181
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 1: little politics of Michigan Detroit, be more forward looking, talk

1182
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 1: about more and that is are you glad you share

1183
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:41,040
Speaker 1: your father's name or do you wish you didn't?

1184
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm so glad I share my father because.

1185
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:45,880
Speaker 1: I think it's like I just think this is I've

1186
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 1: always wondered. You know, it's both a It's both great

1187
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 1: and a burden at the same time. I got a

1188
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:55,280
Speaker 1: no listen.

1189
01:05:55,400 --> 01:06:00,840
Speaker 3: Any whether you're whatever, your privileges are, right, I know

1190
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:01,280
Speaker 3: about it.

1191
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:04,960
Speaker 2: You have a responsibility to utilize them.

1192
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:07,440
Speaker 3: I think this is my personal feeling, like you have

1193
01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:10,640
Speaker 3: a responsibility to leverage them and utilize them for good.

1194
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:13,240
Speaker 3: If my name were Michael Conyers, the doors that have

1195
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 3: opened for me would not be the same full stop.

1196
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:19,040
Speaker 3: I would not have been able to introduce or help

1197
01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 3: the folks that I've been able to help. An aid

1198
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:24,240
Speaker 3: and support. If I don't think and maybe it would

1199
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:26,600
Speaker 3: be different. My life will look fundamentally different if my

1200
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:29,520
Speaker 3: name is Michael, if we're Michael Conyers, but as John Conyers,

1201
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 3: that they'd when people automatically say, wait, with John Conyers,

1202
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:36,240
Speaker 3: your father or your grandfather, the ability to make connections,

1203
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 3: the ability to introduce folks and help people.

1204
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:40,680
Speaker 1: So you see it all as asset.

1205
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:45,080
Speaker 3: It's an asset, whatever the downside is. I'm okay with

1206
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 3: it because the upside I can't, I literally.

1207
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:50,480
Speaker 2: Cannot quantify it. So I'm gonna do with it and

1208
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 2: God will fourth.

1209
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, That's what I just have always, and I've

1210
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:58,280
Speaker 1: always wondered, is there a like, you know, had this

1211
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:01,640
Speaker 1: convert like I said, al Gore sharing his name with

1212
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 1: his right he was al Gorth junior, right, and there

1213
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:08,880
Speaker 1: was an expectation Mlka the third right. And I've always

1214
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:13,400
Speaker 1: you know, is is it a It's both a privilege

1215
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:16,920
Speaker 1: and a burden role wrapped up in won perhaps right,

1216
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:22,200
Speaker 1: depending on who you're dealing with. And that's what I've Yeah, well,

1217
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:25,040
Speaker 1: there's no reason you ever had a conversation with any

1218
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 1: of the other namesakes.

1219
01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:32,920
Speaker 3: Uh No, I'm not one that was substantive or substantial

1220
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 3: about like that issue.

1221
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, not about that issue. No, I don't. I don't

1222
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 2: know that. I also, oh, you know what.

1223
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:42,280
Speaker 3: I talked to harro Ford Junior about it, and I've

1224
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 3: talked to Dennis Archer Jr. Dennis Archer Jr. Speaking of

1225
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:48,280
Speaker 3: local politics, right, the former mayor. I've talked to him

1226
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:51,880
Speaker 3: about it, and we both see it as a positive.

1227
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:53,520
Speaker 3: I think that he's I mean not. I think he

1228
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:59,040
Speaker 3: has focused strictly on solely on business right, and he's

1229
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:01,520
Speaker 3: you know, he's commended me on me on stepping into

1230
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:05,920
Speaker 3: the political scene as a political operative with my name

1231
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:06,560
Speaker 3: being what it is.

1232
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:12,200
Speaker 1: So let's talk about Detroit. You called Detroit, you position

1233
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:15,240
Speaker 1: an unfinished business.

1234
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:19,960
Speaker 3: Tell me, you know, I've lived a bunch of I've

1235
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:22,760
Speaker 3: lived in five different places. I've lived in DC, I've

1236
01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:26,720
Speaker 3: lived in Atlanta, I've lived in obviously Michigan, in New

1237
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:31,200
Speaker 3: York as well as Los Angeles, California. But Michigan, I

1238
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 3: think is at an inflection point. Detroit specifically, we have

1239
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:41,680
Speaker 3: new leadership in our city. We are going to have

1240
01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:47,000
Speaker 3: new leadership in the governor's mansion, and right now it

1241
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:52,320
Speaker 3: is critical for folks that have stayed in Michigan and Detroit,

1242
01:08:52,360 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 3: Southeastern Michigan specifically, who have a wealth of resources, some

1243
01:08:56,479 --> 01:09:02,640
Speaker 3: of which have already kind of beenake.

1244
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 2: It over to some extent.

1245
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:03,840
Speaker 3: It is important that we have people that are going

1246
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:05,840
Speaker 3: to fight on behalf of those folks and make sure

1247
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:08,120
Speaker 3: they have a place in a city that they helped

1248
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:10,400
Speaker 3: propped up when folks did not want to be here

1249
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:11,839
Speaker 3: or didn't see it as a wise investment.

1250
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 2: And I think that's the unfinished business.

1251
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:18,679
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. I saw it comparative of Detroit

1252
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:22,760
Speaker 1: and Saint Louis and how Detroit's turning a corner and

1253
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:28,479
Speaker 1: Saint Louis is stuck, and it's it's that's good news, right.

1254
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:30,800
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, fifteen years ago, it was we

1255
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:33,320
Speaker 1: were still in the what's it going to take to

1256
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 1: turn Detroit around? What's it going to take to turn

1257
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,680
Speaker 1: de Traite around? Do you credit dug In with this?

1258
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 2: I can't. You can't discredit dug In at all. Now.

1259
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:48,360
Speaker 3: The fact of the matter, some of the framework, and

1260
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 3: no one likes to talk about this, and I don't

1261
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:54,080
Speaker 3: mean to put him in this conversation, but some of

1262
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:56,040
Speaker 3: the framework that Dugan was able to work off of

1263
01:09:56,479 --> 01:10:00,200
Speaker 3: was laid by Kwame Kkatrick. Some of the money, some

1264
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 3: of the money that was used a federal funding that

1265
01:10:03,280 --> 01:10:06,559
Speaker 3: was used was from, you know, stuff that his mother

1266
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:11,200
Speaker 3: was able to bring back. But overall, I mean the

1267
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:14,360
Speaker 3: jumping off point and the right it's one thing to

1268
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 3: get in the door, it's another thing to stay there. Right,

1269
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:19,120
Speaker 3: So you cannot you cannot discredit dug In for the

1270
01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:23,120
Speaker 3: longevity and the long term success that he's had and

1271
01:10:23,479 --> 01:10:28,040
Speaker 3: steering the direction of the city of Detroit, which has

1272
01:10:29,160 --> 01:10:31,520
Speaker 3: it's the growth has been tremendous.

1273
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:36,760
Speaker 1: What's been you know, watching it sort of Detroit sort

1274
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:40,599
Speaker 1: of turn around? Is it one thing or is it

1275
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 1: just a reminder It sometimes just takes a series of

1276
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:46,160
Speaker 1: little things in time. Well, what would you say the

1277
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:47,559
Speaker 1: recipe turned out to be?

1278
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:51,840
Speaker 3: So my father has a saying again address it in

1279
01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:54,000
Speaker 3: the book, Little by little, day by day, Right, it's

1280
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:57,599
Speaker 3: how you achieved success, and everything's connected. I would say

1281
01:10:57,680 --> 01:11:00,680
Speaker 3: that in the case of Detroit, we didn't have any

1282
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:02,599
Speaker 3: other option accept patients.

1283
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:03,120
Speaker 2: Right.

1284
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:06,519
Speaker 3: It wasn't going to happen over now, primarily because folks

1285
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 3: weren't interested in investing here. So it took someone like

1286
01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:14,439
Speaker 3: a Dan Gilbert, someone you know, a family like the

1287
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:20,720
Speaker 3: Illages making consider considerable investment, a strategic investment, and you know,

1288
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 3: folks being patient with the mayor. The mayor again, Mike

1289
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:27,960
Speaker 3: Duggan is a junior, So Mike Duggan leveraging his name

1290
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:30,559
Speaker 3: and his relationships of his father to be able to

1291
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:34,080
Speaker 3: attract people and businesses to come do business here.

1292
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:36,400
Speaker 2: So we didn't have a choice.

1293
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:39,360
Speaker 3: And I think we're still as someone who's lived in

1294
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:41,880
Speaker 3: a number of major cities, we still have a ways

1295
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:44,720
Speaker 3: to go, and I think we can get to the

1296
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:48,240
Speaker 3: place to get back to the top of you know,

1297
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:50,040
Speaker 3: American cities, but we have a long way to go,

1298
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:54,160
Speaker 3: and the work, the foundation has been laid and the

1299
01:11:54,280 --> 01:11:55,040
Speaker 3: work continues.

1300
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:57,680
Speaker 1: You know, you brought up a couple of them. You

1301
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:02,000
Speaker 1: noted Dan Gilbert in the Illages, and it is every

1302
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:07,040
Speaker 1: community turnaround story is usually you know, a piece of

1303
01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:11,719
Speaker 1: it is basically the local rich people finally decided to invest.

1304
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:14,559
Speaker 1: And I say this no disrespect, you know whatever. The

1305
01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:16,559
Speaker 1: people that had, you know, made their money in that

1306
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:19,000
Speaker 1: city or made their money in businesses in that city,

1307
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:22,960
Speaker 1: and the cities that are struggling usually don't have people

1308
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:27,720
Speaker 1: willing to invest. You know, what does it take to

1309
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:31,439
Speaker 1: get to get folks like the Dan Gilberts and the

1310
01:12:31,479 --> 01:12:33,639
Speaker 1: villages to invest?

1311
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:33,960
Speaker 2: What?

1312
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:37,720
Speaker 1: Why did they do it? And what is it scalable?

1313
01:12:38,160 --> 01:12:38,320
Speaker 2: You know?

1314
01:12:38,439 --> 01:12:41,600
Speaker 1: Is there lessons here for those in Saint Louis that

1315
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:44,000
Speaker 1: want to see want to try to create a Detroit

1316
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:44,639
Speaker 1: like story.

1317
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:51,200
Speaker 3: Well, I think with Dan and in the Illage family,

1318
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:55,120
Speaker 3: they're they're from here, right, Dan's Damn, Dan's from here.

1319
01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:58,200
Speaker 2: He's so that matters. Yeah, I think I think that matters.

1320
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:01,599
Speaker 2: I think it also takes vision.

1321
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:06,000
Speaker 3: Coming to the earlier conversation, I think some folks don't

1322
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:09,160
Speaker 3: have a vision beyond the money they make. They have

1323
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:11,600
Speaker 3: a vision to be wealthy and outside of that, like,

1324
01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:14,160
Speaker 3: that's not their problem.

1325
01:13:14,439 --> 01:13:17,400
Speaker 2: Everything else is not their problem. And I think I don't.

1326
01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:21,759
Speaker 3: Think I can speak to Dan specifically and his vision

1327
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:24,839
Speaker 3: for Bedrock and his vision for the city of Detroit.

1328
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:27,439
Speaker 2: He believes in it.

1329
01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:30,000
Speaker 3: He believes in what it can be in the same

1330
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:31,559
Speaker 3: way that I've always believed in what it can be.

1331
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:33,920
Speaker 3: When when I went to school at Morehouse, I was

1332
01:13:33,960 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 3: always perplexed, not by its success, but more so why

1333
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:42,000
Speaker 3: this little city or this big city and this landlocked

1334
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:45,160
Speaker 3: city on top of that, right has all of these resources,

1335
01:13:45,160 --> 01:13:48,000
Speaker 3: but Detroit is an international city and we don't.

1336
01:13:48,040 --> 01:13:50,400
Speaker 2: We're not able to maximize and leverage it. Now.

1337
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:52,960
Speaker 3: Of course, as I've grown and I'm matured, I understand

1338
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:55,959
Speaker 3: the machinations of why it is and and the forces,

1339
01:13:56,040 --> 01:13:59,800
Speaker 3: the outward forces, external forces working against its success. But

1340
01:13:59,840 --> 01:14:02,800
Speaker 3: I do I think you have to have a vision

1341
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:06,160
Speaker 3: for what a thing can be, what a place can be,

1342
01:14:06,160 --> 01:14:09,080
Speaker 3: before you make that investment. And there are a lot

1343
01:14:09,080 --> 01:14:13,160
Speaker 3: of places I think that don't have wealthy people that

1344
01:14:13,240 --> 01:14:15,880
Speaker 3: have a vision for what a place can be and

1345
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:17,679
Speaker 3: or even want to be a part of that.

1346
01:14:19,400 --> 01:14:23,960
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's interesting. I Detroit was Silicon Valley

1347
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:26,439
Speaker 1: before Silicon Valley. I always like to tell people that

1348
01:14:26,479 --> 01:14:30,720
Speaker 1: Detroit in the forties and fifties and sixties was a

1349
01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:33,360
Speaker 1: magnet for young people who wanted to be in the

1350
01:14:33,439 --> 01:14:35,559
Speaker 1: auto industry or wanted to be in the cutting edge

1351
01:14:35,560 --> 01:14:38,639
Speaker 1: of technology. All the cool stuff was happening in Detroit.

1352
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:43,000
Speaker 1: And then for a variety of reasons, everything atrophied, and

1353
01:14:43,080 --> 01:14:45,559
Speaker 1: that in the auto business and you know, we all

1354
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:48,519
Speaker 1: know the story. Suddenly the American carmakers were no longer king,

1355
01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:52,080
Speaker 1: and you know there's a there's a lot of ways

1356
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:54,280
Speaker 1: that this went down. But I look at it and

1357
01:14:54,280 --> 01:14:57,559
Speaker 1: I think, boy, is there a what are the red

1358
01:14:57,600 --> 01:15:01,840
Speaker 1: flags that happened with the auto industry in Detroit that

1359
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:05,240
Speaker 1: could happen to San Francisco and Silicon Valley in California

1360
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:06,080
Speaker 1: if they're not careful?

1361
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:08,840
Speaker 3: I can I mean, I think it's the American story

1362
01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:11,439
Speaker 3: which we're seeing with the current administration.

1363
01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:15,760
Speaker 2: And that is and it's I wouldn't say it's human story.

1364
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:19,040
Speaker 3: I think it is uniquely American and that we we

1365
01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:22,439
Speaker 3: don't have to be proactive because of our because of

1366
01:15:22,439 --> 01:15:25,320
Speaker 3: our power and our enormous wealth, we don't have to

1367
01:15:25,320 --> 01:15:26,080
Speaker 3: be proactive.

1368
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:29,400
Speaker 2: We can be we have we can afford to be reactive.

1369
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:31,800
Speaker 1: We can buy our way in if we miss out

1370
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:32,560
Speaker 1: on a technology.

1371
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:36,000
Speaker 3: And that's not and that is not the you're seeing

1372
01:15:36,080 --> 01:15:37,920
Speaker 3: it with the big three automakers.

1373
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:39,760
Speaker 2: That's not the case, right.

1374
01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:42,400
Speaker 3: You're seeing that like China is eating our lunch with

1375
01:15:43,080 --> 01:15:45,240
Speaker 3: not only the AI race.

1376
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:47,960
Speaker 1: The I just saw Ford may do a deal with

1377
01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:53,160
Speaker 1: China's largest EV maker. You're like, okay, and so that

1378
01:15:53,240 --> 01:15:54,120
Speaker 1: coming and I.

1379
01:15:54,080 --> 01:15:55,760
Speaker 3: Talk about and I talk about this part of what

1380
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:57,519
Speaker 3: part of what I discussed politically, is.

1381
01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:01,400
Speaker 2: I think climate j I don't know what any one

1382
01:16:01,400 --> 01:16:01,840
Speaker 2: of those things.

1383
01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:04,559
Speaker 3: I believe the climate change is real because I've never

1384
01:16:05,160 --> 01:16:07,360
Speaker 3: This is the first real winter we're having a Michigan,

1385
01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:10,160
Speaker 3: and god knows how long I say that. I say

1386
01:16:10,240 --> 01:16:14,840
Speaker 3: that to say that when the car became, when it became,

1387
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:18,439
Speaker 3: and the infrastructure was built. The infrastructure was built because

1388
01:16:18,880 --> 01:16:23,120
Speaker 3: the United States government subsidized largely the building of roads.

1389
01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:26,599
Speaker 3: If the infrastructure to make roads, I mean to make

1390
01:16:26,920 --> 01:16:27,680
Speaker 3: all the automobile.

1391
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:31,120
Speaker 1: We don't sell as many cars if the country doesn't

1392
01:16:31,160 --> 01:16:32,320
Speaker 1: build highways.

1393
01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:36,960
Speaker 3: Right subsequently, if we were, If we're going to create

1394
01:16:37,040 --> 01:16:40,960
Speaker 3: tax incentives, what good is the tax incentive if we're

1395
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:44,640
Speaker 3: not subsidizing people to be able to the infrastructure to

1396
01:16:45,400 --> 01:16:47,120
Speaker 3: or you should get a tax credit on putting an

1397
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:49,680
Speaker 3: EV charger in your home, should get a subsidizing for

1398
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:52,479
Speaker 3: converting your your gas station to an EV gas station,

1399
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:54,519
Speaker 3: all those things. What good is that tax credit to

1400
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:56,680
Speaker 3: buy the car if there's no incentive.

1401
01:16:56,479 --> 01:16:58,880
Speaker 2: For any industry to convert to that.

1402
01:17:07,680 --> 01:17:11,599
Speaker 1: What today's capitalists don't realize is that this is the

1403
01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:15,640
Speaker 1: federal government work hand in hand with industry, whether it

1404
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:18,919
Speaker 1: was to build railroad tracks in the late nineteenth century,

1405
01:17:19,040 --> 01:17:23,960
Speaker 1: or the freeway or the interstate highway system. I know

1406
01:17:24,040 --> 01:17:25,800
Speaker 1: what I thought. This was the great failure of the

1407
01:17:25,800 --> 01:17:32,320
Speaker 1: Biden Infrastructure Bill. All it did was shovel cash out

1408
01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:40,040
Speaker 1: the door. It didn't take the EV stations. It appropriated

1409
01:17:40,080 --> 01:17:45,320
Speaker 1: all this money to build EV essentially powering stations, but

1410
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:48,400
Speaker 1: it was waiting for some private entity to take the

1411
01:17:48,439 --> 01:17:52,320
Speaker 1: tax credit and do it rather than just going and

1412
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:59,400
Speaker 1: doing it and building the infrastructure it is. You know,

1413
01:17:59,479 --> 01:18:02,280
Speaker 1: this is like think explains why there's this whole movement

1414
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:04,519
Speaker 1: in the Democratic Party of Hey, maybe the Democrats that

1415
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:05,840
Speaker 1: learn how to build stuff again.

1416
01:18:07,320 --> 01:18:08,880
Speaker 3: I mean, we have banned West Virginia, but that's a

1417
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:13,599
Speaker 3: whole other conversation for another time. But I mean I

1418
01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:18,040
Speaker 3: agree with you, and I just think that now I

1419
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:23,240
Speaker 3: don't agree with the government subsidizing corporations are propping them up, right,

1420
01:18:23,320 --> 01:18:25,760
Speaker 3: no one should be too big to fail. But when

1421
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:30,519
Speaker 3: you talk about national security, the interest of America still

1422
01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:35,920
Speaker 3: being a world leader in all things, then I listen.

1423
01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:37,800
Speaker 2: Do I do I want.

1424
01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:43,280
Speaker 3: Bp to or or Exonic Petroleum to have a competitive advantage,

1425
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:46,280
Speaker 3: not particularly, but if it means that they're going to

1426
01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:49,759
Speaker 3: drill less oil and prioritize investing in evy, in solar

1427
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:53,960
Speaker 3: technology and energy efficient technology. Then we got to subsidize them, guys,

1428
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:56,599
Speaker 3: we can, we can, we can. We can subsidize them

1429
01:18:56,600 --> 01:18:58,080
Speaker 3: and then bring them in front of the Senate and

1430
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:01,600
Speaker 3: regulation can bedies and banking committees to break up the

1431
01:19:01,640 --> 01:19:04,120
Speaker 3: anti trust piece later, but first, let's just get let's

1432
01:19:04,120 --> 01:19:08,080
Speaker 3: get the thing done right and so looking like a pragmatist.

1433
01:19:08,240 --> 01:19:10,920
Speaker 1: There's not enough of pragmatism in American politics today.

1434
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:13,960
Speaker 3: I listen I as a guy who used to work

1435
01:19:13,960 --> 01:19:18,080
Speaker 3: in finance, and you gotta hit singles and doubles. Everything

1436
01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:27,000
Speaker 3: can't be a home run incremental intal steps.

1437
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:30,320
Speaker 1: Let me wrap up the political side a minute. So

1438
01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:32,960
Speaker 1: are you running for something this year or not?

1439
01:19:36,760 --> 01:19:37,080
Speaker 2: I am.

1440
01:19:37,160 --> 01:19:39,839
Speaker 3: I'm running for a state Senate in Michigan's third district.

1441
01:19:40,320 --> 01:19:43,800
Speaker 3: It's an open seat, got it? State Legislator Stephanie Chang,

1442
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:47,080
Speaker 3: State Center Stephanie Chang is formerly there. Part of why

1443
01:19:47,120 --> 01:19:48,639
Speaker 3: I'm running, I think, well, I shouldn't say.

1444
01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:50,479
Speaker 2: Part of why this is? This is? This is added

1445
01:19:50,520 --> 01:19:50,960
Speaker 2: to why.

1446
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:54,240
Speaker 3: I'm running is I was at a I was at

1447
01:19:54,280 --> 01:19:56,679
Speaker 3: one of her community meetings and there was an issue

1448
01:19:56,680 --> 01:19:58,640
Speaker 3: of corruption in a particular.

1449
01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:02,320
Speaker 2: City that's within her district, and.

1450
01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:06,800
Speaker 3: She said that she doesn't have the power to do

1451
01:20:06,800 --> 01:20:09,400
Speaker 3: anything about her what was happening.

1452
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:13,000
Speaker 2: And to me, this is my issue with.

1453
01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:17,080
Speaker 3: Politics in general currently, is that not enough people understand

1454
01:20:17,080 --> 01:20:21,479
Speaker 3: the totality and full weight of the role in what

1455
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:25,160
Speaker 3: they can or cannot do. Like the federal government, someone

1456
01:20:25,200 --> 01:20:27,519
Speaker 3: that's on the judiciary committee in the state legislature has

1457
01:20:27,960 --> 01:20:30,040
Speaker 3: has a subpoena power to investigate.

1458
01:20:30,120 --> 01:20:32,120
Speaker 2: And it's not just about the bully poolpit.

1459
01:20:32,640 --> 01:20:35,200
Speaker 3: My challenge in my issue with politics today is that

1460
01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:38,200
Speaker 3: everyone everyone wants to be an activist as a politician.

1461
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:43,680
Speaker 3: Politicians politics and legislating, passing laws is not about activism.

1462
01:20:43,960 --> 01:20:44,600
Speaker 2: It's not about it.

1463
01:20:44,800 --> 01:20:46,519
Speaker 3: You can be it, you can have you may have

1464
01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:50,520
Speaker 3: been an activist. But this is this is why diplomacy matters.

1465
01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:53,559
Speaker 1: This is why this sounds like wisdom from your father.

1466
01:20:54,240 --> 01:20:58,680
Speaker 3: Well, yes, yes, right, coming to DC and hearing you know,

1467
01:20:58,840 --> 01:21:04,120
Speaker 3: Bob Goodlot, or even someone like a Jim Jordan stop

1468
01:21:04,200 --> 01:21:06,320
Speaker 3: me and the elevator with my father's there and say hey,

1469
01:21:06,680 --> 01:21:08,160
Speaker 3: I don't know, or Jim Sinson Brenner.

1470
01:21:08,280 --> 01:21:10,200
Speaker 2: Name a name that people haven't heard in a while.

1471
01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:14,640
Speaker 3: Having them stop me and my father and say, hey,

1472
01:21:14,760 --> 01:21:16,320
Speaker 3: I don't always agree with your dad, but I need

1473
01:21:16,439 --> 01:21:16,760
Speaker 3: you to know.

1474
01:21:16,760 --> 01:21:18,479
Speaker 2: I want to let you know your dad's a great man.

1475
01:21:18,720 --> 01:21:21,759
Speaker 3: Whenever the Democrats are in the majority, we don't agree,

1476
01:21:21,760 --> 01:21:24,280
Speaker 3: but he lets me say my piece and we're respectful

1477
01:21:24,320 --> 01:21:26,400
Speaker 3: to one another and vice versa. So I make sure

1478
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:27,840
Speaker 3: that when we were in the majority. I may not

1479
01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:30,320
Speaker 3: do it for everyone, but your father, for sure, he's

1480
01:21:30,360 --> 01:21:32,559
Speaker 3: someone that I want to hear out because I know

1481
01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:33,840
Speaker 3: is coming from an earnest place.

1482
01:21:34,280 --> 01:21:36,720
Speaker 2: That's what we need back in politics. But every every

1483
01:21:36,880 --> 01:21:37,920
Speaker 2: every and everyone.

1484
01:21:37,640 --> 01:21:40,559
Speaker 3: Says that, but their behavior is not indicative of that

1485
01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:41,400
Speaker 3: wanting them, you.

1486
01:21:41,439 --> 01:21:43,640
Speaker 1: Know, I mean the rewards. You know, this goes to

1487
01:21:43,720 --> 01:21:47,799
Speaker 1: the whole political theatrics. And you know, my biggest concern

1488
01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:52,240
Speaker 1: with Congress. And I'm curious. You could have jumped into

1489
01:21:52,240 --> 01:21:54,360
Speaker 1: a Congressional seat and you chose not to. You chose

1490
01:21:54,360 --> 01:21:56,320
Speaker 1: the state House. Why?

1491
01:21:57,120 --> 01:21:59,880
Speaker 3: Oh, because there's Congress is in the place to make

1492
01:21:59,880 --> 01:22:01,920
Speaker 3: the fix right now. I would have run if I

1493
01:22:01,960 --> 01:22:03,880
Speaker 3: thought it was a place to make the fix. But so,

1494
01:22:03,960 --> 01:22:08,200
Speaker 3: for example, one of the things that I am keenly

1495
01:22:08,240 --> 01:22:12,640
Speaker 3: focused on is that Michigan, the university, and I'm a

1496
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:14,479
Speaker 3: policy walk. I get it honest from my dad reading

1497
01:22:14,520 --> 01:22:16,679
Speaker 3: and reading about what's going on, and I'll be brief.

1498
01:22:16,840 --> 01:22:20,040
Speaker 3: The University of Michigan put out a white paper on

1499
01:22:20,080 --> 01:22:23,400
Speaker 3: the economic growth Outlook for twenty twenty seven for the

1500
01:22:23,479 --> 01:22:26,760
Speaker 3: State of Michigan, and they also put out one for

1501
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:29,599
Speaker 3: the City of Detroit. Because of the retirement of boomers,

1502
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:32,080
Speaker 3: we're going to loud the last few years of boomers,

1503
01:22:32,080 --> 01:22:34,160
Speaker 3: We're going to lose folks in the workforce, so we're

1504
01:22:34,200 --> 01:22:37,240
Speaker 3: going to have the tax revenue is going to decline

1505
01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:40,200
Speaker 3: on down the line from a state stamp.

1506
01:22:40,479 --> 01:22:42,360
Speaker 2: From a state, from.

1507
01:22:42,160 --> 01:22:44,599
Speaker 3: The state's ability or a standpoint of what our state

1508
01:22:44,680 --> 01:22:48,880
Speaker 3: can do with the Department of Education, declassifying because we

1509
01:22:48,920 --> 01:22:54,200
Speaker 3: need to attract talent. Declassifying architecture, occupation of therapy, nursing

1510
01:22:54,520 --> 01:22:57,640
Speaker 3: as professional degrees. One thing that we can do to

1511
01:22:57,680 --> 01:22:59,720
Speaker 3: attract and retain talent, because that's the one of the

1512
01:22:59,760 --> 01:23:02,240
Speaker 3: challenge is that our current governor was able never able

1513
01:23:02,240 --> 01:23:05,400
Speaker 3: to overcome. Instead of issuing bonds that fixed roads and

1514
01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:09,120
Speaker 3: build bridges and fixed infrastructure, let's issue bonds to offset

1515
01:23:09,120 --> 01:23:11,280
Speaker 3: that twenty nine, five hundred dollars at all. We know

1516
01:23:11,360 --> 01:23:14,360
Speaker 3: students are going to lose and attract talent. Right, you

1517
01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:16,599
Speaker 3: can't do that on the federal level. I can do

1518
01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:18,639
Speaker 3: that on the state level. I can work with because

1519
01:23:18,640 --> 01:23:22,160
Speaker 3: that's an issue that is an issue that both Republicans

1520
01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:24,080
Speaker 3: and Democrats on the state level can get on board

1521
01:23:24,120 --> 01:23:25,639
Speaker 3: with to attract and retain talent.

1522
01:23:25,920 --> 01:23:26,960
Speaker 2: And it's not an expenditure.

1523
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:30,320
Speaker 3: We're not spending, We're not we're gonna gain tax revenue.

1524
01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:33,320
Speaker 1: I remember an early interview I did with Dugan back

1525
01:23:33,360 --> 01:23:35,679
Speaker 1: when he was mayor and him going, I need people

1526
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:39,320
Speaker 1: to move to Detroit, and it sounds like what you're saying,

1527
01:23:39,360 --> 01:23:43,120
Speaker 1: with the support, you're gonna have boomers retiring. And there's

1528
01:23:43,160 --> 01:23:47,080
Speaker 1: basically there is not a population gain. And I know that.

1529
01:23:47,439 --> 01:23:50,880
Speaker 1: You know Detroit raised detaid first for refugees, right, raise

1530
01:23:50,960 --> 01:23:54,320
Speaker 1: detail first, because these northern cities are just losing a

1531
01:23:54,360 --> 01:23:57,160
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of people to the south. Right,

1532
01:23:57,280 --> 01:23:57,760
Speaker 1: we know this.

1533
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:00,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean and and so to what I

1534
01:24:01,040 --> 01:24:01,360
Speaker 2: just said.

1535
01:24:01,479 --> 01:24:03,880
Speaker 3: That is why I look at the state level as

1536
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:07,120
Speaker 3: the best place to make an impact. I think that again,

1537
01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:12,320
Speaker 3: legacy isn't footwear is direction. My father worked on the

1538
01:24:12,320 --> 01:24:15,320
Speaker 3: federal level. Great as he may be, he never did

1539
01:24:15,360 --> 01:24:17,720
Speaker 3: anything on the state level, and so I can make

1540
01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:21,599
Speaker 3: an impact and chart a unique course on the state level.

1541
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:22,880
Speaker 3: That's not to say I'll never make it to the

1542
01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:25,040
Speaker 3: federal level or never look that way, but I think

1543
01:24:25,120 --> 01:24:28,200
Speaker 3: right now to make an outsize impact and to really

1544
01:24:28,280 --> 01:24:31,439
Speaker 3: leave an imprint on how this state grows, I think

1545
01:24:31,439 --> 01:24:33,639
Speaker 3: the best place to do it is, you know, in Lansing.

1546
01:24:35,240 --> 01:24:37,400
Speaker 1: This is about us. I tell anybody, I said, if

1547
01:24:37,400 --> 01:24:40,759
Speaker 1: you're running a political you're putting a national news organization,

1548
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:43,000
Speaker 1: and you want to cover campaign twenty twenty six, I'd

1549
01:24:43,040 --> 01:24:45,040
Speaker 1: send a full time person to the state of Michigan.

1550
01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:50,280
Speaker 1: Between that Democratic Senate primary, the three way governor's race,

1551
01:24:51,040 --> 01:24:54,120
Speaker 1: that sort of all the national issues are right there

1552
01:24:54,439 --> 01:24:56,880
Speaker 1: in the state of Michigan. You can cover every issue

1553
01:24:56,960 --> 01:25:02,759
Speaker 1: under the sun. Democratic can fight it, Republican in fighting, swing,

1554
01:25:02,840 --> 01:25:04,720
Speaker 1: voter polarization, it's all here.

1555
01:25:05,439 --> 01:25:07,160
Speaker 3: I thought it was bad on our side of the aisle,

1556
01:25:07,200 --> 01:25:10,519
Speaker 3: but listen, I've been hearing from folks the Republicans in

1557
01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:11,759
Speaker 3: the state of Michigan are a disarray.

1558
01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:13,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, and completely other disarray.

1559
01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:18,760
Speaker 1: So look, obviously you're running as a Democrat, right, so

1560
01:25:18,800 --> 01:25:23,000
Speaker 1: the governor's race. I mean, is Doug and a spoiler.

1561
01:25:24,760 --> 01:25:25,680
Speaker 2: For the Democrats?

1562
01:25:26,280 --> 01:25:28,760
Speaker 3: Listen, folks don't I don't know. You may know, but

1563
01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:31,240
Speaker 3: most people don't know. Like it's alluring and he can

1564
01:25:31,320 --> 01:25:36,000
Speaker 3: raise the money, I'm sure, but we have straight ticket voting.

1565
01:25:36,120 --> 01:25:37,680
Speaker 2: There's the reason why he's able to go.

1566
01:25:37,880 --> 01:25:40,519
Speaker 1: I had this conversation with him. This is a huge issue.

1567
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:41,120
Speaker 1: I think I don't.

1568
01:25:41,760 --> 01:25:44,519
Speaker 3: I will say, I will say the one if there's

1569
01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:46,320
Speaker 3: one person that can do it, based on what he

1570
01:25:46,360 --> 01:25:49,439
Speaker 3: did in twenty what twenty eleven or is it twenty thirteen?

1571
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:50,639
Speaker 2: Right, the one person that.

1572
01:25:50,600 --> 01:25:55,160
Speaker 1: Can do Yeah, you want to write it, yeah, no

1573
01:25:55,439 --> 01:25:56,120
Speaker 1: much respect.

1574
01:25:56,240 --> 01:25:58,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, but if there's one person that can get folks

1575
01:25:58,479 --> 01:26:01,800
Speaker 3: to change their voting habits, the last person I'm going

1576
01:26:01,800 --> 01:26:04,200
Speaker 3: to doubt is Michael Duggant Junior is the last person

1577
01:26:04,200 --> 01:26:06,680
Speaker 3: I'm going to die. But I think that I know

1578
01:26:06,720 --> 01:26:09,760
Speaker 3: that my mom votes straight ticket. I don't vote straight

1579
01:26:09,800 --> 01:26:13,760
Speaker 3: ticket in the general never, I never have, but in

1580
01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:17,960
Speaker 3: the primary, because that is what the habit is. I

1581
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:22,479
Speaker 3: am curious to see what happens in this primary and

1582
01:26:22,479 --> 01:26:24,520
Speaker 3: whether you can get people to change their voting habits.

1583
01:26:25,160 --> 01:26:28,160
Speaker 1: I look at this race and look you know, without

1584
01:26:28,200 --> 01:26:32,559
Speaker 1: getting into positions, these are three very qualified people on paper.

1585
01:26:33,880 --> 01:26:35,920
Speaker 1: Whatever you think of them, do you agree with.

1586
01:26:35,920 --> 01:26:39,519
Speaker 2: That, who's the who's the republic who's the Republican?

1587
01:26:39,560 --> 01:26:41,680
Speaker 1: Your Well, I mean I say that. Look what I

1588
01:26:41,680 --> 01:26:44,360
Speaker 1: say is he's got the resume that fits John James.

1589
01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:47,559
Speaker 1: Meaning like like the average voter would say, oh, okay,

1590
01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:50,200
Speaker 1: he served in Congress, she served as secretary of State,

1591
01:26:50,240 --> 01:26:53,080
Speaker 1: he served as mayor. You would say, sure, that's what

1592
01:26:53,120 --> 01:26:56,720
Speaker 1: I mean. So let me then let me get specific.

1593
01:26:59,000 --> 01:27:01,000
Speaker 1: Do you think you could work with James's governor?

1594
01:27:02,200 --> 01:27:02,400
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1595
01:27:02,439 --> 01:27:05,040
Speaker 3: I mean our families go our families go way back,

1596
01:27:05,479 --> 01:27:10,640
Speaker 3: and so John and I have a relationship. Yeah, I

1597
01:27:11,080 --> 01:27:13,559
Speaker 3: have no I have no doubt that I could work

1598
01:27:13,560 --> 01:27:16,760
Speaker 3: with John or anyone else, you know, as as a

1599
01:27:16,800 --> 01:27:17,599
Speaker 3: state legislator.

1600
01:27:18,520 --> 01:27:21,679
Speaker 1: But I assume I assume you support Benson as as

1601
01:27:21,680 --> 01:27:24,400
Speaker 1: a Democrat or should I not make an assumption?

1602
01:27:24,479 --> 01:27:26,760
Speaker 3: You know, I support I support Jocelyn Johnson. Jocelyn and

1603
01:27:26,760 --> 01:27:31,640
Speaker 3: I have had conversations. I support her. I think I

1604
01:27:31,720 --> 01:27:32,880
Speaker 3: think she could do a great job.

1605
01:27:34,600 --> 01:27:36,280
Speaker 1: But it sounds like you you know all three of

1606
01:27:36,280 --> 01:27:37,320
Speaker 1: these candidates pretty well.

1607
01:27:38,920 --> 01:27:45,560
Speaker 3: I have thought I have thoughts about Mike choosing to

1608
01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:48,559
Speaker 3: run independent. Although I understand it, I.

1609
01:27:48,479 --> 01:27:50,880
Speaker 1: Also you wish he were running as a Democrat.

1610
01:27:51,840 --> 01:27:56,439
Speaker 3: Okay, primarily because like historically independent spoiler for Democrats, not

1611
01:27:56,479 --> 01:27:59,040
Speaker 3: the other way around, right right, And so I just.

1612
01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:01,839
Speaker 1: Think especially his base is I mean, you see the numbers.

1613
01:28:01,880 --> 01:28:04,160
Speaker 1: It's just you know, I know what he says of

1614
01:28:04,240 --> 01:28:07,439
Speaker 1: the trail. Oh, I'm getting, you know, equal from both sides.

1615
01:28:07,840 --> 01:28:11,600
Speaker 1: You're like, every vote you get out of Detroit is

1616
01:28:11,640 --> 01:28:14,800
Speaker 1: a to vote gain for the Republicans.

1617
01:28:15,360 --> 01:28:20,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's it's concerning, but we'll see what happens.

1618
01:28:20,320 --> 01:28:24,360
Speaker 3: I think again, this is why my policies. You know,

1619
01:28:24,720 --> 01:28:29,760
Speaker 3: my father's legacy as a politician, one of the things

1620
01:28:29,760 --> 01:28:32,160
Speaker 3: that he never got to cover, and he's not thought

1621
01:28:32,200 --> 01:28:34,040
Speaker 3: of for this, although it was very much a part

1622
01:28:34,080 --> 01:28:37,200
Speaker 3: of his mission was economic justice.

1623
01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:41,280
Speaker 2: My issues and my concerns are related to economic justice.

1624
01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:45,640
Speaker 3: And so if I as a Democrat who has a

1625
01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:52,080
Speaker 3: primary focus on the ability of economic freedom and mobility

1626
01:28:52,320 --> 01:28:57,880
Speaker 3: to create opportunities for black folks, other peoples of color,

1627
01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:01,640
Speaker 3: and poor disenfranchised folks, if I can work, I know

1628
01:29:01,720 --> 01:29:05,880
Speaker 3: that those things are things that Republicans care about, and

1629
01:29:05,920 --> 01:29:07,559
Speaker 3: so that I know that I'll be able to talk

1630
01:29:07,560 --> 01:29:12,559
Speaker 3: to them and communicate to them about things of that nature.

1631
01:29:12,640 --> 01:29:16,599
Speaker 3: So I'm not I'm not worried about a Republican being

1632
01:29:16,960 --> 01:29:20,439
Speaker 3: in the governor's mansion. I'm more concerned about Republicans taking

1633
01:29:20,760 --> 01:29:22,760
Speaker 3: over the state House or maintaining their lead in the

1634
01:29:22,760 --> 01:29:25,120
Speaker 3: State House, and they're maintaining their lead in the in

1635
01:29:25,160 --> 01:29:25,920
Speaker 3: the state Senate.

1636
01:29:27,280 --> 01:29:29,559
Speaker 1: You have a strong opinion about the Democratic Center primary,

1637
01:29:29,640 --> 01:29:32,120
Speaker 1: the US Center primary, or is this since you're running

1638
01:29:32,120 --> 01:29:34,439
Speaker 1: your own primary, you're staying out of it.

1639
01:29:35,040 --> 01:29:40,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't have a strong opinion about it. I think, yeah,

1640
01:29:40,479 --> 01:29:42,360
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't have a strong opinion about it.

1641
01:29:43,560 --> 01:29:45,680
Speaker 3: May the best person win, I think that. I will

1642
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:46,360
Speaker 3: tell you this.

1643
01:29:46,760 --> 01:29:49,080
Speaker 2: Mallary mc morrow is someone I consider a friend.

1644
01:29:50,080 --> 01:29:53,479
Speaker 3: Although I've talked to her about this since it came out.

1645
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:59,000
Speaker 3: She gets the Medicare for All issue wrong. But other

1646
01:29:59,080 --> 01:30:02,040
Speaker 3: than that, I think, you know, she get wrong about it.

1647
01:30:02,479 --> 01:30:05,800
Speaker 3: So she she says that Medicare for All isn't a

1648
01:30:05,840 --> 01:30:10,280
Speaker 3: single payer insurance thing, and it absolutely is, and she

1649
01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:13,320
Speaker 3: and so that that's it. I just want to clarify

1650
01:30:13,320 --> 01:30:16,000
Speaker 3: that with her because obviously, you know, having a front

1651
01:30:16,080 --> 01:30:19,519
Speaker 3: row seat to the Medicare for all and being introduced.

1652
01:30:19,560 --> 01:30:22,559
Speaker 3: I understand understand what it's about, and I just you know,

1653
01:30:22,640 --> 01:30:24,000
Speaker 3: she and I had a conversation and I talk with

1654
01:30:24,040 --> 01:30:27,000
Speaker 3: the chief of staff or a campaign manager about what

1655
01:30:27,040 --> 01:30:29,640
Speaker 3: it is, and so yeah, that's that's really it. But

1656
01:30:29,720 --> 01:30:31,960
Speaker 3: I mean, Mallory, Mallory has been a champion for the

1657
01:30:32,000 --> 01:30:33,160
Speaker 3: issues for a very long time.

1658
01:30:36,960 --> 01:30:43,040
Speaker 1: She she strikes me as literally goldilocks here. Right. It's

1659
01:30:43,080 --> 01:30:45,160
Speaker 1: like some people are going to think once to establishment.

1660
01:30:45,280 --> 01:30:48,519
Speaker 1: Somebody's gonna think once too progressive. Here she is sitting

1661
01:30:48,600 --> 01:30:50,960
Speaker 1: somewhere in between those two. So I don't know whether

1662
01:30:50,960 --> 01:30:53,120
Speaker 1: that's good or bad in this case. This is what

1663
01:30:53,200 --> 01:30:55,439
Speaker 1: where the electorate is gonna tell us.

1664
01:30:57,400 --> 01:30:59,840
Speaker 3: I think I think the correct the elector is going

1665
01:30:59,880 --> 01:31:02,840
Speaker 3: to and I think it's going to it's going to

1666
01:31:02,920 --> 01:31:08,680
Speaker 3: come down to people make a decisions based on that

1667
01:31:08,920 --> 01:31:12,040
Speaker 3: is one two establishment is one two progressive.

1668
01:31:14,640 --> 01:31:17,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we'll see. I mean, Mallord is a great person.

1669
01:31:20,040 --> 01:31:21,799
Speaker 1: Let me get you out of here. On your previous

1670
01:31:21,840 --> 01:31:28,840
Speaker 1: life the music business. How much is AI going to

1671
01:31:28,960 --> 01:31:30,800
Speaker 1: change the music business and is it going to be

1672
01:31:30,800 --> 01:31:33,479
Speaker 1: even recognizable when it's all done.

1673
01:31:35,080 --> 01:31:37,400
Speaker 2: I don't know that. I don't know that.

1674
01:31:38,760 --> 01:31:44,960
Speaker 3: AI can capture the human condition or the human experience.

1675
01:31:45,800 --> 01:31:47,559
Speaker 1: I would expecy to hear you say that. I always

1676
01:31:47,560 --> 01:31:50,760
Speaker 1: say I have faith in our species, that we're not

1677
01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:53,599
Speaker 1: going to allow ourselves to be replaced. Whatever that means, you.

1678
01:31:53,560 --> 01:31:56,320
Speaker 3: Know, but I think it takes Here's the thing you

1679
01:31:56,680 --> 01:31:58,639
Speaker 3: asked me a question, or you made a statement earlier

1680
01:31:58,960 --> 01:32:03,840
Speaker 3: about incrementalism. Part of incrementalism, and part of it of

1681
01:32:04,240 --> 01:32:07,639
Speaker 3: folks engaging with that is understanding that part of life

1682
01:32:07,720 --> 01:32:10,000
Speaker 3: is doing I realized to curse on here.

1683
01:32:10,160 --> 01:32:13,360
Speaker 1: No, you don't curse, go for it.

1684
01:32:13,360 --> 01:32:14,639
Speaker 2: It's work.

1685
01:32:14,840 --> 01:32:18,360
Speaker 3: It's doing the fucking work right, being actually invested in

1686
01:32:18,439 --> 01:32:23,880
Speaker 3: the processes. There are processes that are in place within

1687
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:28,280
Speaker 3: this country that like you can't get around. I understand

1688
01:32:28,280 --> 01:32:31,839
Speaker 3: that they're frustrating, and I'm not saying that they shouldn't

1689
01:32:31,880 --> 01:32:34,679
Speaker 3: be different, but if you want them to be different,

1690
01:32:35,120 --> 01:32:37,479
Speaker 3: you have to participate. And so what I would say

1691
01:32:37,560 --> 01:32:40,840
Speaker 3: is to answer your question more fully, more holistically, is that,

1692
01:32:40,880 --> 01:32:43,759
Speaker 3: whether it's AI or whether it's politics, if you don't

1693
01:32:43,840 --> 01:32:46,479
Speaker 3: want things to be the way they are, then you

1694
01:32:46,520 --> 01:32:51,160
Speaker 3: have to participate and fight for the thing until it

1695
01:32:51,240 --> 01:32:52,519
Speaker 3: is the way you would like it to be.

1696
01:32:52,880 --> 01:32:54,040
Speaker 2: I don't think that AI.

1697
01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:58,439
Speaker 3: Can capture the anguish of what it's like to answer

1698
01:32:58,439 --> 01:33:00,759
Speaker 3: the phone and find out one of your best friends

1699
01:33:00,760 --> 01:33:03,479
Speaker 3: is died by suicide. I don't think AI can capture

1700
01:33:03,479 --> 01:33:09,520
Speaker 3: the anguish of being the eldest son of John Conyers

1701
01:33:09,560 --> 01:33:11,840
Speaker 3: and going to discover his body and having to call

1702
01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:13,639
Speaker 3: his wife and his brother and his son.

1703
01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:15,599
Speaker 2: Right, I don't think AI can capture that.

1704
01:33:16,320 --> 01:33:19,479
Speaker 3: I may may, AI may be able to, may be

1705
01:33:19,720 --> 01:33:25,439
Speaker 3: able to write a love song that is nice and catchy,

1706
01:33:27,760 --> 01:33:30,520
Speaker 3: But I don't think it can capture the inner workings

1707
01:33:31,080 --> 01:33:33,719
Speaker 3: of what you feel, the complexity of what you feel,

1708
01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:36,320
Speaker 3: the anguish of loving someone and wanting to be with

1709
01:33:36,360 --> 01:33:38,360
Speaker 3: someone but knowing that this is not the right person

1710
01:33:38,360 --> 01:33:38,559
Speaker 3: for you.

1711
01:33:38,600 --> 01:33:39,200
Speaker 2: I don't think it can.

1712
01:33:39,320 --> 01:33:41,160
Speaker 1: The metaphor you're making me think of it sort of

1713
01:33:41,240 --> 01:33:45,439
Speaker 1: like you can buy a frozen dinner and you'll leave. Yeah,

1714
01:33:45,479 --> 01:33:48,639
Speaker 1: But boy, when mom or dad makes a home cooked meal,

1715
01:33:48,760 --> 01:33:50,840
Speaker 1: there's something about it that's a hell of a lot better,

1716
01:33:54,840 --> 01:33:58,360
Speaker 1: you know whatever. That The extra ingredient is humanity, right,

1717
01:33:59,160 --> 01:34:03,200
Speaker 1: the species can How hard is it to make a

1718
01:34:03,240 --> 01:34:06,719
Speaker 1: living as a middle class musician these days? Harder than ever?

1719
01:34:08,280 --> 01:34:10,000
Speaker 3: Well, I'm not in it anymore, but I can tell

1720
01:34:10,000 --> 01:34:11,639
Speaker 3: you when I wasn't, it was very difficult.

1721
01:34:11,880 --> 01:34:14,120
Speaker 2: It's difficult to get into sessions.

1722
01:34:13,840 --> 01:34:16,760
Speaker 1: Because all people see are the stars, right, and you know,

1723
01:34:16,800 --> 01:34:20,840
Speaker 1: there's I just saw this movie about Sung Sung Blue.

1724
01:34:20,880 --> 01:34:23,240
Speaker 1: It's about Neil Diamond. But it's not about Neil Diamond, right,

1725
01:34:23,600 --> 01:34:27,439
Speaker 1: It's about people that populate every city in America, which

1726
01:34:27,479 --> 01:34:30,320
Speaker 1: is these people that will sing at bars, that do

1727
01:34:30,439 --> 01:34:33,559
Speaker 1: live music that you know, it's a full time job

1728
01:34:33,600 --> 01:34:36,000
Speaker 1: for them, but they're not making millions. But that's why

1729
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:37,320
Speaker 1: I land the bills, you know.

1730
01:34:37,280 --> 01:34:38,360
Speaker 2: That's why that's why I left.

1731
01:34:38,400 --> 01:34:41,320
Speaker 3: That's actually why my dad left the music business is because,

1732
01:34:41,439 --> 01:34:44,160
Speaker 3: like he quickly realized, I did not. I wish I

1733
01:34:44,240 --> 01:34:47,480
Speaker 3: realized it as quickly as him, but he quickly realized

1734
01:34:47,520 --> 01:34:49,800
Speaker 3: what it would take to just get by. And I

1735
01:34:50,120 --> 01:34:52,559
Speaker 3: not thrive, but just to get by. And I think

1736
01:34:52,560 --> 01:34:55,000
Speaker 3: not enough people tough life. It's a very tough life,

1737
01:34:55,040 --> 01:34:57,599
Speaker 3: and it's and it's one of those things where people

1738
01:34:57,640 --> 01:35:00,120
Speaker 3: try to take advantage of you for what you don't know,

1739
01:35:00,520 --> 01:35:02,960
Speaker 3: even though you're contributing and making them millions.

1740
01:35:03,680 --> 01:35:05,800
Speaker 2: It's a tough life. I wish more people respected it.

1741
01:35:05,960 --> 01:35:10,600
Speaker 3: The again the emotions and the pain that come with

1742
01:35:10,680 --> 01:35:12,400
Speaker 3: being a songwriter to be able to give you a hit.

1743
01:35:14,400 --> 01:35:17,479
Speaker 1: Do you feel like Detroit can be this hub of

1744
01:35:17,520 --> 01:35:18,799
Speaker 1: the music industry again.

1745
01:35:19,520 --> 01:35:20,280
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't.

1746
01:35:20,400 --> 01:35:23,800
Speaker 3: I don't know that it can be that because the

1747
01:35:23,800 --> 01:35:26,800
Speaker 3: infrastructure is not here. I think what Detroit can be

1748
01:35:26,920 --> 01:35:29,920
Speaker 3: is is the hub of something new Detroit.

1749
01:35:29,960 --> 01:35:31,960
Speaker 2: And I tell people this, Detroit is not an importer

1750
01:35:32,040 --> 01:35:34,680
Speaker 2: of culture. We have never imported culture. We export. Oh,

1751
01:35:34,880 --> 01:35:37,320
Speaker 2: you've created culture. Detroit creates culture.

1752
01:35:37,400 --> 01:35:39,280
Speaker 3: And so I think whatever, whatever the next thing is

1753
01:35:39,320 --> 01:35:43,520
Speaker 3: going to be, it'll it'll come from Detroit.

1754
01:35:43,960 --> 01:35:48,160
Speaker 2: And you know, we shall see with that, with that ultimately.

1755
01:35:47,720 --> 01:35:51,360
Speaker 1: Become Well, when the Pistons are in the NBA Finals,

1756
01:35:51,400 --> 01:35:52,719
Speaker 1: maybe we'll get some new bad boys.

1757
01:35:52,520 --> 01:35:53,759
Speaker 2: Closed and we're first in the East.

1758
01:35:54,360 --> 01:35:56,519
Speaker 1: I have to say, I think it's a year too soon.

1759
01:35:56,560 --> 01:36:04,640
Speaker 4: But hey, you know, no joannest no Ynes and I

1760
01:36:04,680 --> 01:36:07,479
Speaker 4: love Giannis, I think, but too distracting, Huh. I think

1761
01:36:08,160 --> 01:36:08,960
Speaker 4: you're building something.

1762
01:36:09,160 --> 01:36:13,320
Speaker 3: He fundamentally changes the way the what we do. Yeah,

1763
01:36:13,720 --> 01:36:16,160
Speaker 3: I don't know that, Jannis does. I come from the

1764
01:36:16,200 --> 01:36:18,840
Speaker 3: era of the bull I watched the Bulls, I watched

1765
01:36:18,840 --> 01:36:21,960
Speaker 3: the Lakers, both both Kobe iterations.

1766
01:36:22,520 --> 01:36:25,439
Speaker 2: I don't like personally.

1767
01:36:25,640 --> 01:36:27,720
Speaker 3: I can appreciate greatness, but I don't like players that

1768
01:36:27,760 --> 01:36:29,280
Speaker 3: don't do one thing well.

1769
01:36:29,840 --> 01:36:32,240
Speaker 2: Giannis doesn't do one thing well.

1770
01:36:32,320 --> 01:36:36,000
Speaker 3: Joannis requires you play a certain type of play, a

1771
01:36:36,040 --> 01:36:36,680
Speaker 3: certain type of game.

1772
01:36:36,760 --> 01:36:38,840
Speaker 2: Right, if the game slows down, if the game slows down,

1773
01:36:38,840 --> 01:36:41,479
Speaker 2: what can I rely on Yiannis to do? I don't,

1774
01:36:41,560 --> 01:36:42,679
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't like that.

1775
01:36:43,120 --> 01:36:45,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't want to shooting free throws, and you

1776
01:36:45,160 --> 01:36:48,080
Speaker 1: probably don't want him shooting threes. He can, he can.

1777
01:36:48,240 --> 01:36:49,800
Speaker 3: He doesn't have a back to the basket game though,

1778
01:36:49,920 --> 01:36:52,600
Speaker 3: really right, so like what is he going to do?

1779
01:36:53,280 --> 01:36:55,599
Speaker 2: So I personally don't want him on my team, although

1780
01:36:56,439 --> 01:36:58,679
Speaker 2: I hope that he lands where he would like to land.

1781
01:36:58,880 --> 01:37:00,240
Speaker 1: All I say is I got you know, I get

1782
01:37:00,240 --> 01:37:02,440
Speaker 1: a cousin grip in Monroe. So I've always had to

1783
01:37:02,720 --> 01:37:06,439
Speaker 1: follow Detroit sports a little bit. This is about the

1784
01:37:06,479 --> 01:37:08,640
Speaker 1: best run that you guys have had in a while, Like,

1785
01:37:09,080 --> 01:37:10,400
Speaker 1: so everybody's competitive.

1786
01:37:10,479 --> 01:37:14,040
Speaker 2: Maybe you know, I'm surprised, listen, I was. I was with.

1787
01:37:15,439 --> 01:37:17,439
Speaker 3: I was with the vice chairman of the business not

1788
01:37:17,439 --> 01:37:19,360
Speaker 3: too long ago, and that we were talking about that

1789
01:37:19,439 --> 01:37:19,600
Speaker 3: and he.

1790
01:37:19,680 --> 01:37:22,479
Speaker 1: Was him at mcna Island. He's that ownership group of

1791
01:37:22,520 --> 01:37:26,120
Speaker 1: the Pistons. Yeah that's amazing. Yeah he's amazing.

1792
01:37:26,160 --> 01:37:28,400
Speaker 2: But ye, he was even he's surprised. He didn't think

1793
01:37:28,439 --> 01:37:29,760
Speaker 2: it would be this year.

1794
01:37:30,160 --> 01:37:33,960
Speaker 1: So right, it's quick, but you know, hey, the East

1795
01:37:34,040 --> 01:37:36,439
Speaker 1: is open. It is wide open.

1796
01:37:37,120 --> 01:37:39,120
Speaker 3: How about the Celtics, By the way, I didn't think.

1797
01:37:39,280 --> 01:37:42,000
Speaker 3: I mean, listen, I'm a JB. I should people watch

1798
01:37:42,040 --> 01:37:44,680
Speaker 3: your podcast. I listen to your podcast. I shouldn't say this, but.

1799
01:37:44,960 --> 01:37:49,400
Speaker 2: I personally preferred JB's style of play over Tatum.

1800
01:37:49,479 --> 01:37:51,559
Speaker 1: Yes, I like, I know, I I know what you

1801
01:37:51,600 --> 01:37:54,679
Speaker 1: mean by Tatum, but yeah, I mean poor Jason Tatum.

1802
01:37:54,920 --> 01:37:58,080
Speaker 1: There's a part of it feel sorry like he's I

1803
01:37:58,080 --> 01:38:00,400
Speaker 1: don't think he gets the do he does hers?

1804
01:38:01,800 --> 01:38:03,160
Speaker 2: Why is that? Why do you think that? Why do

1805
01:38:03,200 --> 01:38:03,800
Speaker 2: you feel that way?

1806
01:38:03,840 --> 01:38:08,320
Speaker 1: Because look, I think he's because in a weird way,

1807
01:38:08,400 --> 01:38:09,960
Speaker 1: it's like when he's great, it's like, well, yeah he

1808
01:38:10,000 --> 01:38:13,479
Speaker 1: was supposed to be great. That's all I mean. It's

1809
01:38:13,560 --> 01:38:16,200
Speaker 1: there's something. Look, I think Lebron deals with this a

1810
01:38:16,240 --> 01:38:18,640
Speaker 1: little bit. I think we all hold Lebron as this

1811
01:38:18,680 --> 01:38:20,839
Speaker 1: absurd standard. I look back and I think it's amazing

1812
01:38:20,880 --> 01:38:23,680
Speaker 1: how well Lebron has handled all of it. I mean,

1813
01:38:23,840 --> 01:38:27,000
Speaker 1: you're told at fifteen you're the king, and you kind

1814
01:38:27,000 --> 01:38:29,200
Speaker 1: of live up to expectations that were put on you

1815
01:38:29,200 --> 01:38:32,040
Speaker 1: as a fifteen year old. Okay, we can debate, well,

1816
01:38:32,120 --> 01:38:36,840
Speaker 1: he's got four titles. Come on, like the guy was

1817
01:38:37,080 --> 01:38:40,439
Speaker 1: you know, I remember a guy named Todd Marinovitch given

1818
01:38:40,479 --> 01:38:44,839
Speaker 1: the same treatment on Sports Illustrated Football player. That's great.

1819
01:38:45,080 --> 01:38:47,280
Speaker 1: You know, his father raised him to be this perfect

1820
01:38:47,320 --> 01:38:50,840
Speaker 1: quarterback and he completely imploded. You know, so you know

1821
01:38:51,040 --> 01:38:55,360
Speaker 1: because the expect arguably because he couldn't handle the pressure, right,

1822
01:38:55,680 --> 01:38:59,720
Speaker 1: And here's a fifteen year old kid who got the

1823
01:38:59,720 --> 01:39:02,599
Speaker 1: same any and he handled it. And I'm sorry whatever.

1824
01:39:02,640 --> 01:39:07,080
Speaker 1: You know what Lebron scandal is there? Right? The Lebron

1825
01:39:07,200 --> 01:39:10,480
Speaker 1: scandals are, Oh nobody likes his take on this political

1826
01:39:11,880 --> 01:39:15,400
Speaker 1: thing or that political thing. You know, there's no scandal

1827
01:39:15,439 --> 01:39:16,240
Speaker 1: scandal with him.

1828
01:39:16,720 --> 01:39:18,240
Speaker 2: Absolutely not. Absolutely.

1829
01:39:18,360 --> 01:39:20,479
Speaker 3: We could argue that Michael Jordan has more scandal than

1830
01:39:20,600 --> 01:39:21,280
Speaker 3: Lebron James.

1831
01:39:22,400 --> 01:39:23,800
Speaker 2: So I know I'm with you there.

1832
01:39:24,680 --> 01:39:28,160
Speaker 3: My my critiques of Lebron James are only related to basketball.

1833
01:39:28,200 --> 01:39:30,240
Speaker 3: They are not related to him as a person. I

1834
01:39:30,320 --> 01:39:32,720
Speaker 3: just don't I don't think he's the greatest. I would

1835
01:39:32,760 --> 01:39:34,719
Speaker 3: put him at number two, number three.

1836
01:39:34,920 --> 01:39:36,200
Speaker 2: But I just think, you.

1837
01:39:36,160 --> 01:39:42,280
Speaker 1: Know, I'm not planning to run for the mayor to

1838
01:39:42,320 --> 01:39:46,200
Speaker 1: become mayor v Slansing. But I think after I said

1839
01:39:46,200 --> 01:39:48,200
Speaker 1: my statement, I'd at least get at least a few votes.

1840
01:39:49,160 --> 01:39:55,120
Speaker 1: I think Magic gets underrated in this conversation. I mean

1841
01:39:56,280 --> 01:39:59,840
Speaker 1: his career gets cut short, and Jordan and Magic only

1842
01:39:59,840 --> 01:40:03,880
Speaker 1: f off once if he doesn't get HIV. I promise

1843
01:40:03,920 --> 01:40:06,880
Speaker 1: you they face off a couple more times. Would golds

1844
01:40:06,960 --> 01:40:10,680
Speaker 1: Lakers becomes a thing in the early nineties and he

1845
01:40:10,760 --> 01:40:12,960
Speaker 1: gets all he has to do is get one? And

1846
01:40:13,080 --> 01:40:18,680
Speaker 1: who's got six? Magic won his first year. You know what,

1847
01:40:18,720 --> 01:40:21,760
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan didn't do that. You know what Lebron didn't

1848
01:40:21,800 --> 01:40:24,960
Speaker 1: do that. You know what Kareem didn't do that. Yeah,

1849
01:40:24,960 --> 01:40:26,519
Speaker 1: I can go all day on my Magic.

1850
01:40:26,800 --> 01:40:29,280
Speaker 2: Listen, we got it one day. You're in DC, right,

1851
01:40:29,720 --> 01:40:30,080
Speaker 2: I am.

1852
01:40:30,400 --> 01:40:32,320
Speaker 3: I When I when I come to town next, which will

1853
01:40:32,360 --> 01:40:35,240
Speaker 3: be very soon because I'm fundraising, I will definitely, you know, I'll.

1854
01:40:35,040 --> 01:40:36,840
Speaker 2: Look you up. I would love to talk sports with you.

1855
01:40:37,320 --> 01:40:39,160
Speaker 3: I had the privilege of me. I had the privilege

1856
01:40:39,200 --> 01:40:41,000
Speaker 3: of me. Willbon I've never met Corneiser.

1857
01:40:41,240 --> 01:40:42,439
Speaker 2: I would love to. I would love to pick a

1858
01:40:42,479 --> 01:40:44,280
Speaker 2: grant on sports as well, but yeah.

1859
01:40:44,040 --> 01:40:46,960
Speaker 1: You would. He would have a blast for that. Hey, John,

1860
01:40:47,000 --> 01:40:49,639
Speaker 1: this has been great. Appreciate the time. Congrats on the book.

1861
01:40:50,479 --> 01:40:54,040
Speaker 1: Like I said, I it is not your It is

1862
01:40:54,080 --> 01:40:57,120
Speaker 1: not what people expect, but it's I learned a lot,

1863
01:40:57,840 --> 01:41:02,439
Speaker 1: both about your father but about you know. It's it's

1864
01:41:02,520 --> 01:41:07,599
Speaker 1: just it's tough to live in some you know, it's

1865
01:41:07,600 --> 01:41:10,280
Speaker 1: both a privilege but it's also taugh and I think

1866
01:41:10,320 --> 01:41:14,280
Speaker 1: you captured it pretty well the without without coming across

1867
01:41:14,400 --> 01:41:18,599
Speaker 1: like some elitis complaining about their lifestyle.

1868
01:41:18,600 --> 01:41:20,920
Speaker 3: It was definitely a difficult needle to thread, but I

1869
01:41:20,960 --> 01:41:23,160
Speaker 3: feel like I think I knew I did the best

1870
01:41:23,160 --> 01:41:23,439
Speaker 3: I could.

1871
01:41:24,560 --> 01:41:27,240
Speaker 1: Well be safe on the trail and definitely look me up.

1872
01:41:27,680 --> 01:41:28,559
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

1873
01:41:38,600 --> 01:41:43,160
Speaker 1: All right. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with John Conyers.

1874
01:41:43,320 --> 01:41:45,719
Speaker 1: The third I know I'll be watching his state Senate race.

1875
01:41:45,760 --> 01:41:48,639
Speaker 1: I like the fact that he says, yes, he's going

1876
01:41:48,680 --> 01:41:50,600
Speaker 1: into the family business, but he wants to chart his

1877
01:41:50,640 --> 01:41:54,559
Speaker 1: own course. His dad never worked in the legislature, and

1878
01:41:54,600 --> 01:41:56,720
Speaker 1: he actually see the issues that he cares about. And

1879
01:41:56,800 --> 01:41:58,519
Speaker 1: by the way, it's A. It's good advice for anybody

1880
01:41:58,560 --> 01:42:02,080
Speaker 1: wanting to run for office. Don't just say to yourself, man,

1881
01:42:02,200 --> 01:42:03,920
Speaker 1: I'm really upset about what's going on. I'm just going

1882
01:42:04,000 --> 01:42:05,559
Speaker 1: to run for any I'm going to run for Congress

1883
01:42:05,560 --> 01:42:07,599
Speaker 1: and see if I can do something well. Not every

1884
01:42:08,439 --> 01:42:13,680
Speaker 1: reform that you're fighting for is best implemented on the

1885
01:42:13,680 --> 01:42:18,439
Speaker 1: congressional level. Sometimes you can have more impact running city council,

1886
01:42:18,479 --> 01:42:22,720
Speaker 1: state legislature. And I think that that's that's the path

1887
01:42:22,760 --> 01:42:26,040
Speaker 1: that John Conyer's the third seas for himself. So let's

1888
01:42:26,360 --> 01:42:28,240
Speaker 1: let me move to my top five list. And it's

1889
01:42:28,320 --> 01:42:31,439
Speaker 1: inspired by you know, when I was going through all

1890
01:42:31,479 --> 01:42:36,560
Speaker 1: of my research on how often, you know, the largest

1891
01:42:36,840 --> 01:42:41,040
Speaker 1: retirement classes we've had in midterm elections, and I was

1892
01:42:41,120 --> 01:42:44,280
Speaker 1: reminded that as large the fact that we'd cross fifty

1893
01:42:44,360 --> 01:42:46,599
Speaker 1: retirements and it was only the third time we'd ever

1894
01:42:46,640 --> 01:42:50,759
Speaker 1: done it. The two times in midterms right twenty eighteen

1895
01:42:50,840 --> 01:42:53,200
Speaker 1: we had fifty five. We're at fifty one encounting now

1896
01:42:53,240 --> 01:42:57,240
Speaker 1: for twenty twenty six. But the high water mark was

1897
01:42:57,560 --> 01:43:02,760
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two, that was a presidential year, and it

1898
01:43:02,800 --> 01:43:05,960
Speaker 1: was sixty five. And if you recall, I said, you know,

1899
01:43:06,000 --> 01:43:09,120
Speaker 1: There were sort of three things that were driving so

1900
01:43:09,280 --> 01:43:12,400
Speaker 1: many retirements that cycle. One, it was a redistricting year,

1901
01:43:13,720 --> 01:43:15,639
Speaker 1: and it was no ordinary redistricting here. It was the

1902
01:43:15,680 --> 01:43:25,120
Speaker 1: first cycle where the Justice Department prioritized majority minority reapportionment.

1903
01:43:25,720 --> 01:43:29,360
Speaker 1: So in the South they guaranteed a lot more African

1904
01:43:29,360 --> 01:43:34,240
Speaker 1: American representation and in the Southwest Latino representation. And the

1905
01:43:34,320 --> 01:43:38,400
Speaker 1: Justice Department was approving or disapproving these maps based on that. Well,

1906
01:43:38,400 --> 01:43:40,800
Speaker 1: that really shook up. It shook up a lot of

1907
01:43:40,840 --> 01:43:44,200
Speaker 1: different maps, drove a lot of retirements. The second thing

1908
01:43:44,240 --> 01:43:47,280
Speaker 1: that drove a bunch of incumbents into retirement was scandal,

1909
01:43:47,760 --> 01:43:49,960
Speaker 1: and that there was a couple of unique They were

1910
01:43:50,040 --> 01:43:54,439
Speaker 1: basically members of Congress were able to write checks without

1911
01:43:54,560 --> 01:43:56,400
Speaker 1: having to prove they had the cash to do it,

1912
01:43:56,439 --> 01:43:59,400
Speaker 1: like this special House bank, and members were bouncing checks

1913
01:43:59,520 --> 01:44:01,720
Speaker 1: or some guys bounced over seven hundred checks, and it

1914
01:44:01,800 --> 01:44:04,880
Speaker 1: was just crazy. There was also a House post office

1915
01:44:04,920 --> 01:44:08,320
Speaker 1: scandal where people were getting free postage. Members of Congress

1916
01:44:08,320 --> 01:44:13,440
Speaker 1: freet postage and then somehow like parlaying it into cash elsewhere.

1917
01:44:13,840 --> 01:44:17,559
Speaker 1: It's what was the downfall of one Dan Rostenkowski, the

1918
01:44:17,600 --> 01:44:20,640
Speaker 1: one time powerful chairman the Ways and Mes Committee, an

1919
01:44:20,680 --> 01:44:26,320
Speaker 1: old Chicago Democrat. But there was a third reason that

1920
01:44:27,200 --> 01:44:30,960
Speaker 1: drove a bunch of incumbents into retirement, and that was

1921
01:44:31,680 --> 01:44:34,559
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two was going to be the last year

1922
01:44:35,240 --> 01:44:40,240
Speaker 1: a sitting member of Congress, House or Senate could retire

1923
01:44:40,400 --> 01:44:43,760
Speaker 1: and take whatever leftover camp campaign money they had and

1924
01:44:44,439 --> 01:44:48,800
Speaker 1: convert it to personal finances. They could just take whatever

1925
01:44:48,880 --> 01:44:51,240
Speaker 1: campaign money was left and it was theirs. They didn't

1926
01:44:51,240 --> 01:44:53,120
Speaker 1: have to give it back to donors. They didn't have

1927
01:44:53,160 --> 01:44:56,720
Speaker 1: to give it to the party, give it to a

1928
01:44:56,760 --> 01:44:59,320
Speaker 1: pack or open up their own pack and create a

1929
01:44:59,320 --> 01:45:02,880
Speaker 1: political commit They could simply just convert it to there

1930
01:45:03,040 --> 01:45:05,800
Speaker 1: and so quite a few members had. You know, at

1931
01:45:05,800 --> 01:45:08,640
Speaker 1: the time, having a million dollars in your account was

1932
01:45:08,680 --> 01:45:11,960
Speaker 1: a huge deal back then, thought hey, I got this

1933
01:45:12,000 --> 01:45:14,960
Speaker 1: brand new retirement account, you know, in addition to their

1934
01:45:14,960 --> 01:45:20,800
Speaker 1: congressional pension. I remember South Florida lost three I think

1935
01:45:21,080 --> 01:45:23,919
Speaker 1: long time or at least two long time members of Congress,

1936
01:45:24,439 --> 01:45:27,920
Speaker 1: and I can't help but wonder how much that contributed

1937
01:45:27,920 --> 01:45:31,080
Speaker 1: to it. Bill Layman and Dante Facel were two of

1938
01:45:31,120 --> 01:45:33,000
Speaker 1: the guys that took off in ninety two. Claude Pepper

1939
01:45:33,040 --> 01:45:36,000
Speaker 1: kept going. He could have probably walked away with money,

1940
01:45:38,000 --> 01:45:40,040
Speaker 1: but he was actually he had already passed away. I

1941
01:45:40,040 --> 01:45:42,880
Speaker 1: admit claud Pepper by my bad on that. Claude Pepper

1942
01:45:42,880 --> 01:45:45,800
Speaker 1: was eight. He passed away in eighty nine. But you

1943
01:45:45,920 --> 01:45:48,360
Speaker 1: had I think two other members who chose not to

1944
01:45:48,360 --> 01:45:50,880
Speaker 1: seek reelection in one of the perks of that. So

1945
01:45:50,920 --> 01:45:53,400
Speaker 1: it made me think, you know, what would be good

1946
01:45:53,439 --> 01:45:56,599
Speaker 1: a top five list of you won't believe this used

1947
01:45:56,640 --> 01:46:02,720
Speaker 1: to be legal in American politics, And it's just a

1948
01:46:02,760 --> 01:46:08,880
Speaker 1: good reminder that reform is always reactive in American politics.

1949
01:46:08,880 --> 01:46:11,679
Speaker 1: We don't outlaw abuses in advance. We don't think about

1950
01:46:11,680 --> 01:46:14,200
Speaker 1: what could be abused. We wait for the abuse to happen.

1951
01:46:14,760 --> 01:46:17,000
Speaker 1: Then we pass the law regulation to try to prevent

1952
01:46:17,040 --> 01:46:20,840
Speaker 1: it in the future. So with that in mind, there's

1953
01:46:20,880 --> 01:46:23,679
Speaker 1: my top five list of things that were once completely legal,

1954
01:46:24,479 --> 01:46:27,000
Speaker 1: followed by a second list that may someday make future

1955
01:46:27,000 --> 01:46:31,280
Speaker 1: Americans say, wait, they allowed that. So top five things

1956
01:46:31,280 --> 01:46:36,000
Speaker 1: that used to be legal but no longer are Top.

1957
01:46:37,920 --> 01:46:43,120
Speaker 2: Five top.

1958
01:46:43,080 --> 01:46:46,120
Speaker 1: It'll shock you that this was so. Number five, corporations

1959
01:46:46,120 --> 01:46:49,759
Speaker 1: could give directly to candidates. This was legal until nineteen

1960
01:46:49,840 --> 01:46:54,120
Speaker 1: oh seven and the passage of the then the Tilman Act.

1961
01:46:54,160 --> 01:46:57,000
Speaker 1: But back then there were no packs. Corporations didn't need

1962
01:46:57,040 --> 01:47:00,280
Speaker 1: packs or shell entities to get money to candidates. They

1963
01:47:00,360 --> 01:47:05,000
Speaker 1: simply wrote checks directly from corporate treasuries to candidates. In fact,

1964
01:47:06,120 --> 01:47:09,720
Speaker 1: Mark Hannah, who was sort of the political guru of

1965
01:47:09,760 --> 01:47:13,120
Speaker 1: Bill McWilliam McKinley in the turn of the century. In

1966
01:47:13,120 --> 01:47:15,960
Speaker 1: the eighteen ninety six and nineteen hundred elections, Mark Hannah

1967
01:47:15,960 --> 01:47:20,200
Speaker 1: while running the McKinley campaigns, he didn't ask corporations for donations.

1968
01:47:20,760 --> 01:47:26,160
Speaker 1: He assigned them quotas railroads, banks, manufacturers. They were told

1969
01:47:26,600 --> 01:47:30,120
Speaker 1: what they owed based on what he's thought was the

1970
01:47:30,200 --> 01:47:34,360
Speaker 1: stake in prosperity. Hey, this is you have to give

1971
01:47:34,400 --> 01:47:38,400
Speaker 1: this much money to our campaign. And then it sort

1972
01:47:38,439 --> 01:47:41,880
Speaker 1: of blew up when Standard Oil it was at the

1973
01:47:41,920 --> 01:47:46,080
Speaker 1: time it was exposed that they secretly funded Teddy Roosevelt's

1974
01:47:46,120 --> 01:47:50,280
Speaker 1: nineteen oh four campaign. And when that came out, Teddy

1975
01:47:50,400 --> 01:47:53,280
Speaker 1: was so embarrassed, not because it was illegal, but because

1976
01:47:53,320 --> 01:47:56,760
Speaker 1: it looked bad that he actually got behind the reform

1977
01:47:57,160 --> 01:48:00,280
Speaker 1: that became the Tilman Act that did this. Now, of

1978
01:48:00,280 --> 01:48:03,280
Speaker 1: course we have dark money. You've got people that can

1979
01:48:03,320 --> 01:48:06,559
Speaker 1: make their donations anonymous, and there's certainly plenty of shell

1980
01:48:06,600 --> 01:48:10,200
Speaker 1: companies now that can be used in shell five oh one,

1981
01:48:10,320 --> 01:48:13,280
Speaker 1: see threes and fours and stuff like that. But believe

1982
01:48:13,320 --> 01:48:14,920
Speaker 1: it or not, back in the day, it was not

1983
01:48:15,160 --> 01:48:21,040
Speaker 1: just legal. You had campaigns that essentially invoiced. That's what

1984
01:48:21,120 --> 01:48:26,760
Speaker 1: Mark Hannah Diddy invoiced railroad companies and oil companies for

1985
01:48:26,840 --> 01:48:31,000
Speaker 1: those eighteen ninety six and nineteen hundred campaigns. Number four

1986
01:48:31,040 --> 01:48:36,960
Speaker 1: on the list, party machines openly bought votes. This was

1987
01:48:37,040 --> 01:48:39,960
Speaker 1: legal for much of the nineteenth century. Vote buying wasn't hidden.

1988
01:48:40,000 --> 01:48:43,400
Speaker 1: It was simply transactional, so you'd have tammany hall operatives.

1989
01:48:44,080 --> 01:48:48,280
Speaker 1: They would just be handing out cash, coal, turkeys, whiskey

1990
01:48:48,720 --> 01:48:52,679
Speaker 1: right outside of polling places. This was in New York City.

1991
01:48:52,960 --> 01:48:56,879
Speaker 1: Ballots back then were public, so party bosses could actually

1992
01:48:57,080 --> 01:49:00,840
Speaker 1: know how someone voted. If you took the money and

1993
01:49:00,920 --> 01:49:04,439
Speaker 1: voted the wrong way, you didn't get paid the laxt time.

1994
01:49:04,479 --> 01:49:07,320
Speaker 1: So basically that's how we ended up with a secret ballot.

1995
01:49:09,400 --> 01:49:12,280
Speaker 1: And it's a reminder secret ballots they don't make politics moral,

1996
01:49:12,680 --> 01:49:19,080
Speaker 1: It just makes it made the corruption unenforceable. On that front.

1997
01:49:19,720 --> 01:49:23,679
Speaker 1: The number three, you won't believe this was legal federal

1998
01:49:23,760 --> 01:49:26,719
Speaker 1: jobs being used as campaign currency. This was legal until

1999
01:49:26,720 --> 01:49:30,559
Speaker 1: eighteen eighty three, so before we had Civil service reform,

2000
01:49:30,600 --> 01:49:33,960
Speaker 1: and frankly, it's something that Donald Trump's trying to undo today.

2001
01:49:34,720 --> 01:49:37,679
Speaker 1: But federal employment up until eighteen eighty three was basically

2002
01:49:37,720 --> 01:49:42,960
Speaker 1: a spoils system. Presidents would fire entire post office staffs

2003
01:49:43,000 --> 01:49:46,000
Speaker 1: after election, and the postal Service back then was seen

2004
01:49:46,040 --> 01:49:49,960
Speaker 1: as part of the political arm of presidents and political parties.

2005
01:49:50,439 --> 01:49:54,719
Speaker 1: That frankly, that was all the way through until Leftdr FDR's,

2006
01:49:55,360 --> 01:49:58,160
Speaker 1: you know, chief political strategist was the Postmaster General. That

2007
01:49:58,200 --> 01:50:00,880
Speaker 1: wasn't an accident because post offic offices were all over

2008
01:50:00,920 --> 01:50:04,400
Speaker 1: the country. They were essentially little organizing hubs, at least

2009
01:50:04,400 --> 01:50:06,519
Speaker 1: that's how they saw them until they finally sort of

2010
01:50:06,600 --> 01:50:09,479
Speaker 1: separated out and took the politics out of the postal service.

2011
01:50:09,760 --> 01:50:12,679
Speaker 1: But before eighteen eighty three, you'd see just entire post

2012
01:50:12,680 --> 01:50:17,599
Speaker 1: offices would just we would turn over if the political

2013
01:50:17,600 --> 01:50:20,599
Speaker 1: party of the president changed and they were all replaced

2014
01:50:20,640 --> 01:50:25,040
Speaker 1: with loyalist federal employees would actually be subjected to political assessments,

2015
01:50:25,120 --> 01:50:27,759
Speaker 1: something Donald Trump's trying to do right now with civil servants,

2016
01:50:28,080 --> 01:50:32,720
Speaker 1: right and they would be mandatory kickbacks were expected, and

2017
01:50:32,800 --> 01:50:36,600
Speaker 1: if you didn't pay, you lost your job. And it

2018
01:50:36,680 --> 01:50:41,120
Speaker 1: took the assassination of James Garfield for a former party

2019
01:50:41,240 --> 01:50:44,040
Speaker 1: boss or party operative in Chester Arthur to see the light,

2020
01:50:44,800 --> 01:50:48,120
Speaker 1: and he helped, as president, lead to this civil service

2021
01:50:48,120 --> 01:50:52,839
Speaker 1: reform that's actually served the country quite well until Doge

2022
01:50:52,880 --> 01:50:54,800
Speaker 1: and until what Trump's trying to do now where they're

2023
01:50:54,800 --> 01:50:58,720
Speaker 1: trying to repoliticize the federal government. I promise you, you know,

2024
01:50:58,840 --> 01:51:02,679
Speaker 1: the corruption of the nineteen century, which was huge in government,

2025
01:51:04,240 --> 01:51:06,599
Speaker 1: would come right back if we got rid of these

2026
01:51:06,720 --> 01:51:10,000
Speaker 1: civil service reforms. Number two on that list, as candidates

2027
01:51:10,000 --> 01:51:15,559
Speaker 1: could accept unlimited, anonymous cash. This was legal until essentially Watergate,

2028
01:51:17,400 --> 01:51:19,559
Speaker 1: so before we ever had any modern campaign finance, so

2029
01:51:19,600 --> 01:51:22,479
Speaker 1: there was no disclosure requirements and no limits, so wealthy

2030
01:51:22,479 --> 01:51:27,959
Speaker 1: donors literally could give bags of cash to presidential campaigns

2031
01:51:27,960 --> 01:51:34,400
Speaker 1: with no public reporting. Campaigns literally kept cash safes okay,

2032
01:51:35,439 --> 01:51:38,960
Speaker 1: envelopes stuffed with money, moved through hotel rooms, private offices,

2033
01:51:39,240 --> 01:51:41,280
Speaker 1: and voters none of us had any right to know

2034
01:51:41,320 --> 01:51:44,839
Speaker 1: who was funding the campaigns or asking for their vote. Essentially,

2035
01:51:44,880 --> 01:51:49,639
Speaker 1: democracy functioned as a blind trust, and that blind trust

2036
01:51:49,680 --> 01:51:54,360
Speaker 1: failed miserably. It took Watergate and Nixon for it to happen.

2037
01:51:54,360 --> 01:51:56,760
Speaker 1: But look, it was bags of cash. Nobody knows how

2038
01:51:56,840 --> 01:52:00,599
Speaker 1: much money John Kennedy's dad spent. Jill don't know how

2039
01:52:00,640 --> 01:52:02,800
Speaker 1: much he spent. We have no idea how many people,

2040
01:52:02,800 --> 01:52:05,040
Speaker 1: how much money was spent on behalf of Eisenhower, how

2041
01:52:05,080 --> 01:52:07,519
Speaker 1: much money FDR spent on his own campaigns, all of

2042
01:52:07,560 --> 01:52:10,559
Speaker 1: those things. At least now we have the laws to

2043
01:52:10,600 --> 01:52:12,599
Speaker 1: do that. And then, of course number one, I can't

2044
01:52:12,600 --> 01:52:15,160
Speaker 1: believe it was legal, is what I was telling you

2045
01:52:15,240 --> 01:52:17,760
Speaker 1: about that retiring members of Congress could simply pocket their

2046
01:52:17,800 --> 01:52:21,479
Speaker 1: leftover campaign money for decades. When members retired, they just

2047
01:52:22,000 --> 01:52:25,960
Speaker 1: all campaign contributions were seen as personal property. Retirement lawmakers

2048
01:52:26,000 --> 01:52:29,479
Speaker 1: retirement simply converted the campaign accounts into personal income or

2049
01:52:29,520 --> 01:52:33,479
Speaker 1: retirement money. There was no requirement to donate it, refunded,

2050
01:52:33,560 --> 01:52:36,920
Speaker 1: or justify it. And there's no doubt in ninety two,

2051
01:52:36,960 --> 01:52:39,280
Speaker 1: which is why we had the record breaking amount of

2052
01:52:39,280 --> 01:52:43,960
Speaker 1: retirements still the record because that was the last time

2053
01:52:43,960 --> 01:52:47,120
Speaker 1: they could take their leftover campaign balances and do that.

2054
01:52:47,520 --> 01:52:52,200
Speaker 1: So which leads me into essentially a second top five list,

2055
01:52:52,520 --> 01:52:55,559
Speaker 1: and this is my top five list of things that

2056
01:52:55,640 --> 01:52:59,880
Speaker 1: are legal today that perhaps a future version of me,

2057
01:53:01,040 --> 01:53:03,400
Speaker 1: you know, the AI version of me fifty years and

2058
01:53:03,400 --> 01:53:05,679
Speaker 1: from now. We'll do this top five list of believe

2059
01:53:05,680 --> 01:53:09,680
Speaker 1: it or not, this stuff was legal, and frankly, if

2060
01:53:09,680 --> 01:53:11,600
Speaker 1: some of this becomes illegal sooner rather than later, we

2061
01:53:11,640 --> 01:53:16,439
Speaker 1: may have Donald Trump to think. So top five things

2062
01:53:16,439 --> 01:53:19,479
Speaker 1: that are still legal that I think are not going

2063
01:53:19,479 --> 01:53:22,680
Speaker 1: to age well. Number five members of Congress trading stocks. Right,

2064
01:53:22,720 --> 01:53:24,920
Speaker 1: We've been seeing this back and forth about the stock

2065
01:53:24,920 --> 01:53:29,600
Speaker 1: trading ban. The amount of insider info average member of

2066
01:53:29,600 --> 01:53:32,160
Speaker 1: Congress can get and can make decisions. We saw this

2067
01:53:32,240 --> 01:53:35,360
Speaker 1: during the pandemic. They get some COVID briefings and all

2068
01:53:35,400 --> 01:53:38,559
Speaker 1: of a sudden you had members of Congress shorting some places,

2069
01:53:38,560 --> 01:53:42,920
Speaker 1: buying other places. You know, members of Congress because they

2070
01:53:43,680 --> 01:53:47,800
Speaker 1: you know, will sometimes get access to funded but it's

2071
01:53:47,960 --> 01:53:50,439
Speaker 1: all parts of the federal government, people in the Defense Department,

2072
01:53:50,479 --> 01:53:59,840
Speaker 1: government contractors. So this is clearly a potential loophole. And

2073
01:54:00,120 --> 01:54:03,000
Speaker 1: I don't see you know, I know that the argument says, well,

2074
01:54:03,479 --> 01:54:05,680
Speaker 1: and the problem is right, Congress is sitting there going

2075
01:54:05,680 --> 01:54:08,080
Speaker 1: why do we have to play by one set of

2076
01:54:08,120 --> 01:54:10,120
Speaker 1: rules while Donald Trump's going to play by no rules?

2077
01:54:10,680 --> 01:54:14,920
Speaker 1: And I and how you apply this across government, I

2078
01:54:14,960 --> 01:54:19,000
Speaker 1: think is quite difficult. Ultimately, we probably need a constitutional

2079
01:54:19,080 --> 01:54:22,120
Speaker 1: minute when it comes to and probably just saying that.

2080
01:54:22,320 --> 01:54:24,599
Speaker 1: You know, when you're in an office of public trust,

2081
01:54:24,640 --> 01:54:29,120
Speaker 1: federal office, you know you can't you know you you know,

2082
01:54:29,560 --> 01:54:31,320
Speaker 1: you got to put an upline trust, You got to

2083
01:54:31,320 --> 01:54:33,720
Speaker 1: do maybe monthly reports. You know. I'm not saying people

2084
01:54:33,720 --> 01:54:35,960
Speaker 1: are still going to find ways. Perhaps you know, a

2085
01:54:36,040 --> 01:54:41,000
Speaker 1: crook's going to crook. But if you create more friction

2086
01:54:41,080 --> 01:54:43,760
Speaker 1: in that process, create more accountability windows in that process,

2087
01:54:43,760 --> 01:54:46,760
Speaker 1: you're at least going to minimize and at that point,

2088
01:54:46,800 --> 01:54:52,720
Speaker 1: you know, perhaps shame and sunshine will will remind voters.

2089
01:54:52,760 --> 01:54:56,280
Speaker 1: But the fact that voted right now, and especially you know,

2090
01:54:56,320 --> 01:54:58,160
Speaker 1: you could have said forty years ago there weren't that

2091
01:54:58,240 --> 01:55:00,360
Speaker 1: many people trading in the stock market. That's not the

2092
01:55:00,400 --> 01:55:05,200
Speaker 1: case anymore. And it does feel you know, it's look,

2093
01:55:05,480 --> 01:55:07,360
Speaker 1: we already know there are plenty of members of Congress

2094
01:55:07,360 --> 01:55:12,920
Speaker 1: who suddenly end up purchasing land that they get to

2095
01:55:12,960 --> 01:55:16,120
Speaker 1: decide what becomes an exit on a federal interstate, and

2096
01:55:16,160 --> 01:55:19,040
Speaker 1: then suddenly that land is worth more money. That stuff's

2097
01:55:19,040 --> 01:55:21,680
Speaker 1: been happening a long time. That's a little bit harder

2098
01:55:22,440 --> 01:55:30,320
Speaker 1: to police. You know, stock trading is a little simpler

2099
01:55:31,000 --> 01:55:35,000
Speaker 1: to do, And it seems like I do think this

2100
01:55:35,040 --> 01:55:37,720
Speaker 1: is going to get some momentum, especially as there are

2101
01:55:37,760 --> 01:55:40,360
Speaker 1: more and more. This feels like it's one of those

2102
01:55:40,840 --> 01:55:43,560
Speaker 1: that left and the right are gonna that's one of

2103
01:55:43,560 --> 01:55:46,760
Speaker 1: those that you're going to see a convergence on that one.

2104
01:55:46,800 --> 01:55:51,520
Speaker 1: Number four Leadership packs right now, Leadership packs are essentially

2105
01:55:51,680 --> 01:55:55,680
Speaker 1: little lifestyle slush funds for members of Congress. Leadership packs

2106
01:55:55,680 --> 01:55:59,800
Speaker 1: they can pay for luxury travel, high end restaurants, expensive hotels,

2107
01:56:00,280 --> 01:56:02,760
Speaker 1: you can create a family payroll, and it all can

2108
01:56:02,800 --> 01:56:07,440
Speaker 1: be labeled as political activity. You know, hey, I've got to,

2109
01:56:07,520 --> 01:56:10,280
Speaker 1: you know, go do this fundraiser in Puerto Rico. I

2110
01:56:10,360 --> 01:56:13,880
Speaker 1: have my leadership pack pay for this nice resort and

2111
01:56:13,920 --> 01:56:19,640
Speaker 1: we'll have some great dinners. And it basically became the loophole.

2112
01:56:20,040 --> 01:56:23,720
Speaker 1: Since you couldn't use tearing your campaign accounting into personal funds,

2113
01:56:24,080 --> 01:56:26,880
Speaker 1: these leadership packs became sort of the loophole for that.

2114
01:56:28,280 --> 01:56:31,600
Speaker 1: They're ripe for abuse, and it's pretty clear that there

2115
01:56:31,600 --> 01:56:34,839
Speaker 1: needs to be more accountability to them, not less lobbyists.

2116
01:56:34,880 --> 01:56:37,480
Speaker 1: Bundling the fact that a single lobbyist right now can

2117
01:56:37,480 --> 01:56:40,720
Speaker 1: gather twenty or thirty maxed out checks from clients and

2118
01:56:40,760 --> 01:56:45,840
Speaker 1: then deliver them in one fell swoop, signaling influence within

2119
01:56:45,880 --> 01:56:50,520
Speaker 1: that industry right without breaking contribution limits. So a pack

2120
01:56:50,560 --> 01:56:54,040
Speaker 1: can help get you a million dollars in contributions, even

2121
01:56:54,080 --> 01:57:00,040
Speaker 1: if it's twenty five hundred dollars at a time, and

2122
01:57:00,280 --> 01:57:05,280
Speaker 1: creating the fact that that is And again, I think

2123
01:57:05,320 --> 01:57:09,760
Speaker 1: bundling is hard to police. I'm not going to tell

2124
01:57:09,760 --> 01:57:11,520
Speaker 1: you I have an easy way to come up with

2125
01:57:11,760 --> 01:57:14,960
Speaker 1: a regulation that could minimum that could do this, but

2126
01:57:15,240 --> 01:57:19,000
Speaker 1: just I think a lot of this stuff could probably

2127
01:57:19,080 --> 01:57:28,000
Speaker 1: be solved with obsessive transparency at least where people you

2128
01:57:29,480 --> 01:57:31,480
Speaker 1: forced sort of the Nascar effect. You force people to

2129
01:57:31,480 --> 01:57:35,600
Speaker 1: have to show what they're doing, who's giving, and how

2130
01:57:36,080 --> 01:57:39,000
Speaker 1: much they're giving at any one time. This is a

2131
01:57:39,320 --> 01:57:42,280
Speaker 1: This is one that flies under the radar that sitting

2132
01:57:42,280 --> 01:57:46,480
Speaker 1: members of Congress can negotiate private sector jobs while still

2133
01:57:46,640 --> 01:57:50,960
Speaker 1: voting on legislation that might have an impact on their

2134
01:57:51,000 --> 01:57:54,640
Speaker 1: future private sector employment. So, for instance, and we've seen this, right,

2135
01:57:54,720 --> 01:57:56,680
Speaker 1: we saw Mark Green who was a member of Congress

2136
01:57:56,680 --> 01:58:01,839
Speaker 1: and Tennessee. He seemed to be doing when negotiating figuring

2137
01:58:01,840 --> 01:58:06,520
Speaker 1: out his private sector future he ends up eventually resigning,

2138
01:58:07,120 --> 01:58:09,280
Speaker 1: but he was clearly in the middle of doing it,

2139
01:58:09,320 --> 01:58:11,000
Speaker 1: then got exposed that he was doing it, and then

2140
01:58:11,040 --> 01:58:15,320
Speaker 1: finally decided to quit quickly. The fact that it's legal

2141
01:58:15,360 --> 01:58:19,000
Speaker 1: to negotiate future jobs with industries that are affected by

2142
01:58:19,040 --> 01:58:22,760
Speaker 1: legislation they're currently voting on right now. They've put in

2143
01:58:22,800 --> 01:58:25,640
Speaker 1: a cooling off period, but it only starts after you

2144
01:58:25,760 --> 01:58:28,600
Speaker 1: leave office. There probably ought to be just a uh,

2145
01:58:28,920 --> 01:58:35,720
Speaker 1: you know, I don't. It's it's sort of like you

2146
01:58:35,800 --> 01:58:38,280
Speaker 1: get expelled, you lose your pension, like you know, some

2147
01:58:38,400 --> 01:58:41,040
Speaker 1: penalty if you get caught negotiating for a job while

2148
01:58:41,040 --> 01:58:45,040
Speaker 1: you're a sitting member of Congress and voting on that industry,

2149
01:58:45,200 --> 01:58:47,360
Speaker 1: right that you've got to have some sort of disclosure

2150
01:58:47,880 --> 01:58:49,560
Speaker 1: I'm doing this. Maybe you don't have to make a

2151
01:58:49,600 --> 01:58:53,000
Speaker 1: public but maybe to the House Ethics Office or something.

2152
01:58:54,120 --> 01:58:56,560
Speaker 1: Because most of the time the conflict that that you

2153
01:58:56,600 --> 01:58:59,960
Speaker 1: know right now, it's the cooling. We've worried about former

2154
01:59:00,120 --> 01:59:02,680
Speaker 1: lawmakers going right into lobbying, and there's cooling off periods

2155
01:59:02,720 --> 01:59:06,240
Speaker 1: for that, but it's the negotiating why you're voting where

2156
01:59:06,280 --> 01:59:10,920
Speaker 1: you have where it becomes potentially corruptible and of course,

2157
01:59:10,960 --> 01:59:14,120
Speaker 1: the number one thing that is legal in this country

2158
01:59:14,120 --> 01:59:21,240
Speaker 1: that frankly is a mistake that from the creation of

2159
01:59:21,320 --> 01:59:24,320
Speaker 1: this great republic, and that is the presidential pardon power.

2160
01:59:25,720 --> 01:59:29,160
Speaker 1: The fact that presidents can pardon political allies, donors, family members,

2161
01:59:29,160 --> 01:59:34,800
Speaker 1: potential witnesses, even preemptively, with no transparency, no review, no limits.

2162
01:59:35,400 --> 01:59:37,800
Speaker 1: You know, I think it's out I think it was

2163
01:59:37,800 --> 01:59:43,400
Speaker 1: outrageous that Joe Biden issued those those sort of pardons

2164
01:59:43,400 --> 01:59:47,520
Speaker 1: before anything was happening. And it's even more outrageous that

2165
01:59:47,560 --> 01:59:54,400
Speaker 1: every week Donald Trump seems to essentially sell pardons and

2166
01:59:54,600 --> 01:59:57,480
Speaker 1: give pardons out to people who are either political allies

2167
01:59:58,240 --> 02:00:04,640
Speaker 1: or financial of factors. But it is clearly a huge

2168
02:00:07,200 --> 02:00:10,400
Speaker 1: gap in our system. It's going to take a constitutional

2169
02:00:10,400 --> 02:00:15,560
Speaker 1: amendment to get rid of the presidential pardon now. You know,

2170
02:00:16,120 --> 02:00:18,000
Speaker 1: I think that there's a way to reform it. You

2171
02:00:18,080 --> 02:00:21,200
Speaker 1: create a pardon board. Maybe it you know, there's two

2172
02:00:21,280 --> 02:00:25,320
Speaker 1: members of Congression leadership to Supreme Court justice, maybe the

2173
02:00:25,320 --> 02:00:29,040
Speaker 1: two most senior Supreme Court justices, plus maybe the attorney general,

2174
02:00:29,200 --> 02:00:31,320
Speaker 1: president and vice president. Something like that. You can create

2175
02:00:31,400 --> 02:00:35,080
Speaker 1: a pardon board where you still have some but it's

2176
02:00:35,120 --> 02:00:38,840
Speaker 1: got to go through a vetting process. And some sort

2177
02:00:38,880 --> 02:00:42,240
Speaker 1: of process there it is, because right now I think

2178
02:00:42,280 --> 02:00:44,320
Speaker 1: we've seen it's the greatest loophole that sits in the

2179
02:00:44,360 --> 02:00:50,240
Speaker 1: Constitution for a president to abuse, and we probably have

2180
02:00:50,600 --> 02:00:54,360
Speaker 1: a president right now that is abusing the pardon power

2181
02:00:54,760 --> 02:00:56,920
Speaker 1: at a rate that no other president has even come

2182
02:00:56,920 --> 02:01:01,000
Speaker 1: close to. So there you go, my top five lists

2183
02:01:01,040 --> 02:01:03,800
Speaker 1: of things you wouldn't believe used to be legal, and

2184
02:01:03,840 --> 02:01:06,400
Speaker 1: my top five list of things I can't believe are

2185
02:01:06,520 --> 02:01:23,360
Speaker 1: still legal. Right a little ass, Chuck, Ask Chuck. First

2186
02:01:23,400 --> 02:01:26,320
Speaker 1: question comes from Nick Denver, Colorado. Hey, Chuck, thanks for

2187
02:01:26,360 --> 02:01:29,000
Speaker 1: the great content. What happened with the Supreme Court Tariff's case?

2188
02:01:29,520 --> 02:01:32,200
Speaker 1: It seemed like a ruling was coming weeks ago, but

2189
02:01:32,240 --> 02:01:34,200
Speaker 1: now there's silence. Are they delaying it to make the

2190
02:01:34,200 --> 02:01:36,320
Speaker 1: policy harder to reverse and easier for Trump to get

2191
02:01:36,360 --> 02:01:38,840
Speaker 1: what he wants? Also, is Trump unique in being an

2192
02:01:39,000 --> 02:01:43,960
Speaker 1: unpopular populist? It is sort of a you know, if

2193
02:01:44,000 --> 02:01:46,839
Speaker 1: you're put it this way, if you're an unpopular populist,

2194
02:01:47,160 --> 02:01:53,200
Speaker 1: then you're no longer a populist, right because in theory,

2195
02:01:53,480 --> 02:01:56,720
Speaker 1: a populist is supposed to always be the ultimate finger

2196
02:01:56,800 --> 02:02:01,120
Speaker 1: in the wind politician. So yes, I think he is

2197
02:02:01,160 --> 02:02:03,440
Speaker 1: a unicorn. I think what it's a reminder of that

2198
02:02:03,560 --> 02:02:08,680
Speaker 1: populism isn't really an ideology or an agenda. And I think, frankly,

2199
02:02:09,200 --> 02:02:12,160
Speaker 1: we're I think it's a lazy descriptive word. I've used

2200
02:02:12,160 --> 02:02:15,320
Speaker 1: it way too often. You know. When I hear the

2201
02:02:15,360 --> 02:02:19,960
Speaker 1: word populism, I can just tell you as I now,

2202
02:02:20,000 --> 02:02:22,800
Speaker 1: I can tell you, as a Jewish American, I duck

2203
02:02:23,080 --> 02:02:25,160
Speaker 1: and I assume, well, then what comes next is the

2204
02:02:25,160 --> 02:02:27,560
Speaker 1: anti semitism, and as a matter if it comes from

2205
02:02:27,560 --> 02:02:30,680
Speaker 1: the left or the right, But what this really is

2206
02:02:30,680 --> 02:02:37,760
Speaker 1: is nationalism, right, It's economic nationalism, it's cultural nationalism. And

2207
02:02:37,760 --> 02:02:40,960
Speaker 1: that's what Trump is. He's a nationalist, and that's not popular.

2208
02:02:42,040 --> 02:02:46,919
Speaker 1: And ultimately, you know, right, we there are specific ideas

2209
02:02:46,960 --> 02:02:49,880
Speaker 1: that get attributed to nationalists that are popular, but the

2210
02:02:49,960 --> 02:02:52,400
Speaker 1: idea of being a nationalist is not popular. And I

2211
02:02:52,440 --> 02:02:55,360
Speaker 1: think more and more people the reason he's unpopular, Nick,

2212
02:02:55,400 --> 02:02:57,120
Speaker 1: is that I don't think he's viewed as a populist.

2213
02:02:57,120 --> 02:02:59,640
Speaker 1: I think he's viewed more as an America first or

2214
02:02:59,720 --> 02:03:02,080
Speaker 1: nation unless he's done a good job branding himself that way.

2215
02:03:02,120 --> 02:03:05,400
Speaker 1: And I don't think that's just the popular position to be.

2216
02:03:05,600 --> 02:03:08,360
Speaker 1: You know, yes, we're sort of we Americans are kind

2217
02:03:08,360 --> 02:03:14,160
Speaker 1: of a tad more isolationist than Europeans. But emphasis on

2218
02:03:14,160 --> 02:03:16,520
Speaker 1: the word tad on that one. All right, back to

2219
02:03:16,560 --> 02:03:19,360
Speaker 1: your first question. Yeah, well, I mean this is the

2220
02:03:19,520 --> 02:03:23,440
Speaker 1: you know, the lack of transparency of the Supreme Court

2221
02:03:24,280 --> 02:03:27,920
Speaker 1: decision making process is one of those you know, only

2222
02:03:29,000 --> 02:03:33,880
Speaker 1: only the Vatican is more opaque than the Supreme Court.

2223
02:03:35,720 --> 02:03:37,720
Speaker 1: The longer this goes, the harder it is to turn.

2224
02:03:39,680 --> 02:03:45,480
Speaker 1: I can tell you that, you know, it's clear that

2225
02:03:45,880 --> 02:03:50,839
Speaker 1: Trump already has a plan to re implement the tariffs

2226
02:03:50,840 --> 02:03:54,320
Speaker 1: in another way and essentially create another lawsuits. So I

2227
02:03:54,320 --> 02:03:57,240
Speaker 1: do think this is going to let's say the ruling

2228
02:03:57,280 --> 02:03:59,440
Speaker 1: comes out against them, then it becomes whack a mole.

2229
02:04:00,120 --> 02:04:02,160
Speaker 1: The question is why is it taking so long? Could

2230
02:04:02,200 --> 02:04:04,400
Speaker 1: it be that there are going to be multiple opinions.

2231
02:04:05,320 --> 02:04:10,560
Speaker 1: Could it be that Roberts is looking for that Roberts

2232
02:04:10,600 --> 02:04:13,880
Speaker 1: is looking for this goldilocks, you know, an opinion that

2233
02:04:14,000 --> 02:04:17,560
Speaker 1: only applies to this specific case. Right. It seemed pretty

2234
02:04:17,560 --> 02:04:19,520
Speaker 1: open and shut to a lot of legal analysts and

2235
02:04:19,560 --> 02:04:23,160
Speaker 1: a lot of economic terr eff experts. But the longer

2236
02:04:23,200 --> 02:04:25,520
Speaker 1: it takes, it's fair. I mean, my guess is more

2237
02:04:25,560 --> 02:04:28,680
Speaker 1: people want to write opinions. That's usually what explains delays

2238
02:04:29,120 --> 02:04:32,240
Speaker 1: is that you'll have you know, are we going to

2239
02:04:32,280 --> 02:04:35,360
Speaker 1: have multiple sense? Are we going to have multiple concurrences?

2240
02:04:36,320 --> 02:04:38,400
Speaker 1: That would be My guess is what's taking so long?

2241
02:04:38,960 --> 02:04:42,880
Speaker 1: But I do think the White House has spent time

2242
02:04:42,920 --> 02:04:46,320
Speaker 1: they've got in this case. They're obsessed with keeping this

2243
02:04:46,600 --> 02:04:49,640
Speaker 1: tariff regime implemented in some form or another, because the

2244
02:04:49,680 --> 02:04:53,520
Speaker 1: President likes the unilateral control it gives him in negotiating

2245
02:04:54,000 --> 02:04:57,880
Speaker 1: with countries individually. They're going to find other ways to

2246
02:04:57,960 --> 02:05:01,760
Speaker 1: challenge this. But you're right, it's been weird to wait

2247
02:05:01,760 --> 02:05:04,200
Speaker 1: this long. Next question comes from Larry Kay. He goes,

2248
02:05:04,200 --> 02:05:05,880
Speaker 1: not a question, but did you notice I live in

2249
02:05:05,960 --> 02:05:10,040
Speaker 1: Overland Park, Kansas, and noticed that Congresswoman Cherise Davis recently

2250
02:05:10,120 --> 02:05:13,160
Speaker 1: toured areas well outside her district, which don Dodge City, Colby,

2251
02:05:13,320 --> 02:05:15,480
Speaker 1: which suggests she may be eyeing a run for Roger

2252
02:05:15,520 --> 02:05:18,000
Speaker 1: Marshall Senate see. Trump's effort to redistrict her out of

2253
02:05:18,000 --> 02:05:20,280
Speaker 1: the House may have pushed her in that direction, especially

2254
02:05:20,320 --> 02:05:24,400
Speaker 1: as Marshall's more extreme pro magastances are alienating some voters

2255
02:05:24,440 --> 02:05:28,080
Speaker 1: in eastern Kansas. With Kansas history of electing trailblazing senators.

2256
02:05:28,120 --> 02:05:32,040
Speaker 1: It's an intriguing possibility. Larry, I am. I think Charise

2257
02:05:32,080 --> 02:05:38,600
Speaker 1: Davis is an interesting politician. She's not easy to categorize

2258
02:05:38,920 --> 02:05:41,480
Speaker 1: I have. I think she is one of the better

2259
02:05:42,160 --> 02:05:44,240
Speaker 1: you know, a phrase I like to use political athlete,

2260
02:05:44,440 --> 02:05:47,440
Speaker 1: and I think she's a really good political athlete. And

2261
02:05:49,120 --> 02:05:54,480
Speaker 1: you know, if there was ever a political environment for

2262
02:05:54,600 --> 02:05:58,560
Speaker 1: Democrats to get to take a shot at winning a

2263
02:05:59,320 --> 02:06:00,920
Speaker 1: Senate seat and casas, by the way, they want a

2264
02:06:00,960 --> 02:06:04,600
Speaker 1: Senate seat in Kansas since the early nineteen thirties, Okay,

2265
02:06:04,640 --> 02:06:07,040
Speaker 1: I think it's thirty six, it was the last time

2266
02:06:07,040 --> 02:06:10,120
Speaker 1: a Democrat won a Senates a US Senate seat in Kansas.

2267
02:06:11,800 --> 02:06:14,600
Speaker 1: And Marshall has been more more, a little more trumpy

2268
02:06:14,640 --> 02:06:17,600
Speaker 1: than I think the state of Kansas is, right, you know,

2269
02:06:17,640 --> 02:06:21,560
Speaker 1: he certainly it's interesting. I would not be as bullish

2270
02:06:21,560 --> 02:06:24,360
Speaker 1: on David's chances if it was if she were challenging

2271
02:06:24,480 --> 02:06:27,880
Speaker 1: Jerry Moran. But Marshall has been a little more out

2272
02:06:27,880 --> 02:06:33,160
Speaker 1: there on the conservative limb, which find in a primary

2273
02:06:33,160 --> 02:06:37,400
Speaker 1: in Kansas these days. Like you know, I think I

2274
02:06:37,400 --> 02:06:40,880
Speaker 1: think Kansas is light red, not dark red, and in

2275
02:06:40,920 --> 02:06:43,560
Speaker 1: a political cycle like this one, where it looks like

2276
02:06:43,600 --> 02:06:45,680
Speaker 1: the wind is blowing in the direction of the Democrats.

2277
02:06:48,360 --> 02:06:50,720
Speaker 1: I think she's I can tell you this. I know

2278
02:06:51,960 --> 02:06:55,680
Speaker 1: Chuck Schumer and others in the Senate are are working

2279
02:06:55,720 --> 02:07:00,320
Speaker 1: hard to recruit her, So we'll say filing deadline hasn't past.

2280
02:07:01,160 --> 02:07:04,520
Speaker 1: Next question comes from Mark h Alan, Texas. Hey, Chuck,

2281
02:07:04,560 --> 02:07:09,640
Speaker 1: go Pats. Sorry you probably sent the question before the

2282
02:07:09,680 --> 02:07:11,920
Speaker 1: Super Bowl. Sorry about that for you, he goes. I

2283
02:07:12,000 --> 02:07:14,400
Speaker 1: rarely post political opinions, but after seeing how quickly the

2284
02:07:14,480 --> 02:07:17,200
Speaker 1: victims in the Minnesota I shooting were demonized, they spoke

2285
02:07:17,240 --> 02:07:20,360
Speaker 1: out and was immediately labeled as Satanists with TDS and

2286
02:07:20,400 --> 02:07:22,800
Speaker 1: a trader the extreme content I was tagged in afterward.

2287
02:07:22,880 --> 02:07:25,560
Speaker 1: Really highlights on toxic can polarize. The echo chambers have become.

2288
02:07:25,920 --> 02:07:27,600
Speaker 1: How can we heal as a country with this kind

2289
02:07:27,640 --> 02:07:31,840
Speaker 1: of division? Look, I think this is where you know

2290
02:07:31,880 --> 02:07:35,920
Speaker 1: what's frustrating is that I do think the algorithms and

2291
02:07:35,960 --> 02:07:41,640
Speaker 1: the tech companies have created an incentive structures to paint

2292
02:07:41,680 --> 02:07:44,680
Speaker 1: a picture of division. You know, I constantly believe real

2293
02:07:44,720 --> 02:07:48,680
Speaker 1: America is less divided than online America. Increasingly, I think

2294
02:07:48,720 --> 02:07:51,960
Speaker 1: we're all worried that online America is invading real America

2295
02:07:52,080 --> 02:07:55,360
Speaker 1: rather than real America bleeding into online America where we

2296
02:07:55,480 --> 02:07:58,120
Speaker 1: toned things down. But this is where the tech companies

2297
02:07:58,120 --> 02:08:01,320
Speaker 1: have a responsibility. Why are you you know, why why

2298
02:08:01,320 --> 02:08:04,360
Speaker 1: are the why are you getting why are you seeing

2299
02:08:04,480 --> 02:08:10,800
Speaker 1: all this extreme content? Right? The tech companies want to

2300
02:08:10,800 --> 02:08:12,440
Speaker 1: make sure you see it, because what do they want

2301
02:08:12,480 --> 02:08:16,000
Speaker 1: you to do? Make you angrier, make you respond more,

2302
02:08:16,200 --> 02:08:18,520
Speaker 1: make you post more, make you sit on there more,

2303
02:08:18,800 --> 02:08:22,120
Speaker 1: create more engagement. All they care about is the engagement.

2304
02:08:22,160 --> 02:08:28,800
Speaker 1: Whether the engagement excites crazies or excites normies, it doesn't

2305
02:08:28,800 --> 02:08:31,160
Speaker 1: matter as long as it creates engagement. And I think

2306
02:08:31,520 --> 02:08:37,160
Speaker 1: you know, I hate I'm sorry this happened to you, Mark,

2307
02:08:37,440 --> 02:08:40,680
Speaker 1: But in some ways more Americans need to experience how

2308
02:08:40,720 --> 02:08:43,200
Speaker 1: much these algorithms. That's what I keep trying to tell people.

2309
02:08:43,360 --> 02:08:47,480
Speaker 1: We're not as divided as cable TV and and and

2310
02:08:47,520 --> 02:08:51,120
Speaker 1: these social media sites make it seem it really is.

2311
02:08:51,880 --> 02:08:55,640
Speaker 1: It really is sort of these these warped incentive structures

2312
02:08:55,680 --> 02:08:59,200
Speaker 1: for the information ecosystem that that makes it seem like

2313
02:08:59,760 --> 02:09:04,800
Speaker 1: it's it's this crazy, because obviously we're not this crazy.

2314
02:09:04,840 --> 02:09:07,240
Speaker 1: You just look at the polling. Right, Essentially most people

2315
02:09:07,240 --> 02:09:09,840
Speaker 1: are somewhere in the middle, and they don't like how

2316
02:09:09,880 --> 02:09:15,240
Speaker 1: divided we are. They don't like this divisiveness. All right,

2317
02:09:15,440 --> 02:09:18,320
Speaker 1: next question, I'm going to make this the last question

2318
02:09:19,000 --> 02:09:20,640
Speaker 1: for the day, but I promise, I know we've got

2319
02:09:20,680 --> 02:09:23,680
Speaker 1: a lot in here, and I'm gonna I'm gonna make

2320
02:09:23,720 --> 02:09:26,640
Speaker 1: sure the weekend mail bag is a little longer for

2321
02:09:26,680 --> 02:09:28,960
Speaker 1: you since this, you know, twenty four hours. This is

2322
02:09:29,000 --> 02:09:31,880
Speaker 1: just for the you know, the quick turnaround show. So

2323
02:09:31,960 --> 02:09:34,760
Speaker 1: this question comes from also comes from Overland Park, Kansas.

2324
02:09:34,760 --> 02:09:42,040
Speaker 1: Man two Overland Park, Kansas questions within within the same episode. Hey, Chuck,

2325
02:09:42,120 --> 02:09:44,400
Speaker 1: was so much chaos from this administration, It's hard to

2326
02:09:44,400 --> 02:09:46,720
Speaker 1: distinguish what matters most short term versus long term. I

2327
02:09:46,720 --> 02:09:49,880
Speaker 1: wonder if a visual tool like a graph plotting events

2328
02:09:49,920 --> 02:09:52,040
Speaker 1: by their short and long term INCAC could help news

2329
02:09:52,120 --> 02:09:56,200
Speaker 1: organizations and the public better prioritize what deserves attention. For example,

2330
02:09:56,440 --> 02:09:59,520
Speaker 1: Trump's self dealing might rank high short term but low

2331
02:09:59,600 --> 02:10:02,240
Speaker 1: long term, while the decline of US alliances would score

2332
02:10:02,280 --> 02:10:05,560
Speaker 1: high on both axes. I love podcasts. Appreciate how you

2333
02:10:05,560 --> 02:10:08,000
Speaker 1: think through the issues. Helps me develop my own perspective.

2334
02:10:08,200 --> 02:10:10,400
Speaker 1: That's all I'm trying to do. I am not trying

2335
02:10:10,400 --> 02:10:13,440
Speaker 1: to tell you what your position should be. I'm trying

2336
02:10:13,440 --> 02:10:15,919
Speaker 1: to give you as much context as I can possibly

2337
02:10:15,960 --> 02:10:19,640
Speaker 1: give you so that you can make your own decision.

2338
02:10:19,720 --> 02:10:23,040
Speaker 1: Then you add go big red because you're a Husker fan.

2339
02:10:26,760 --> 02:10:30,440
Speaker 1: Football is better when Nebraska football is good and healthy.

2340
02:10:32,720 --> 02:10:36,680
Speaker 1: I am not yet a rule truther, but I'm more

2341
02:10:36,720 --> 02:10:41,800
Speaker 1: I'm still I'm still a believer in rule, but I

2342
02:10:41,840 --> 02:10:43,480
Speaker 1: have a feeling this has got to be the year.

2343
02:10:44,520 --> 02:10:46,160
Speaker 1: Twenty six has got to be the year where you

2344
02:10:46,160 --> 02:10:50,600
Speaker 1: guys see eight or nine wins and what is it

2345
02:10:51,040 --> 02:10:54,760
Speaker 1: You can't keep losing these these one score games anyway,

2346
02:10:54,800 --> 02:10:58,400
Speaker 1: Sorry to rubsult in that room, Dave, that's an interesting

2347
02:10:58,560 --> 02:11:03,040
Speaker 1: idea you have there, you know. I one of the

2348
02:11:03,080 --> 02:11:05,440
Speaker 1: things I've tried to do is at least focus on

2349
02:11:05,480 --> 02:11:08,240
Speaker 1: what Trump does, unless on what he says, right, And

2350
02:11:08,280 --> 02:11:10,560
Speaker 1: I've and you've seen me, you know, every once in

2351
02:11:10,560 --> 02:11:12,280
Speaker 1: a while a weigh in on something he says because

2352
02:11:12,280 --> 02:11:16,040
Speaker 1: I think it is, you know, unnecessarily divisive or puts

2353
02:11:16,080 --> 02:11:18,360
Speaker 1: us in a tough spot. But I kind of think

2354
02:11:19,400 --> 02:11:22,280
Speaker 1: that's the real problem with the with the sort of

2355
02:11:24,040 --> 02:11:28,440
Speaker 1: the legacy media, because they're still desperate for traffic deresper

2356
02:11:28,440 --> 02:11:30,600
Speaker 1: for attention. So what do you do? The stuff he

2357
02:11:30,680 --> 02:11:34,240
Speaker 1: says is very dramatic, and it really like you won't

2358
02:11:34,240 --> 02:11:37,480
Speaker 1: believe what Trump said next, Yeah, you know, Okay, Trump

2359
02:11:37,480 --> 02:11:40,600
Speaker 1: says crazy shit all the time. You know, it's when

2360
02:11:40,640 --> 02:11:43,200
Speaker 1: he does stuff, you know, And I kind of think

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02:11:43,240 --> 02:11:45,720
Speaker 1: the priority has to be on what he's doing, what

2362
02:11:45,800 --> 02:11:49,280
Speaker 1: he's done, not what he says he might do. I'm

2363
02:11:49,320 --> 02:11:52,240
Speaker 1: not saying you shouldn't ignore what he says he might do,

2364
02:11:53,080 --> 02:11:55,280
Speaker 1: but I kind of think that that's where it sort

2365
02:11:55,320 --> 02:12:00,640
Speaker 1: of learn to properly react, not overreactor, on to react.

2366
02:12:00,840 --> 02:12:04,120
Speaker 1: And so my whole dividing line is what does he

2367
02:12:04,240 --> 02:12:08,280
Speaker 1: do versus what he says? And then when he does

2368
02:12:08,320 --> 02:12:10,880
Speaker 1: stuff based on what he has said, And I think

2369
02:12:10,920 --> 02:12:14,200
Speaker 1: you've got to point that out too. But that's, you know,

2370
02:12:14,240 --> 02:12:19,200
Speaker 1: that's the difficulty in both covering Donald Trump. It's the

2371
02:12:19,240 --> 02:12:22,880
Speaker 1: difficulty in either being a supporter of Trump, covering Trump

2372
02:12:22,960 --> 02:12:26,760
Speaker 1: or opposing Trump. He's all over the map. You know,

2373
02:12:26,840 --> 02:12:29,400
Speaker 1: ask ask a Republican who's trying to defend Trump and

2374
02:12:29,400 --> 02:12:33,680
Speaker 1: and say, you know, help me, help you right. One

2375
02:12:33,720 --> 02:12:35,640
Speaker 1: doesn't always know where he's going to come down on

2376
02:12:35,720 --> 02:12:38,240
Speaker 1: certain issues. So it is. He has made it very

2377
02:12:38,240 --> 02:12:40,400
Speaker 1: difficult to be a supporter at times. He's made it

2378
02:12:40,480 --> 02:12:42,840
Speaker 1: very difficult to just cover him as an observer, and

2379
02:12:42,880 --> 02:12:45,400
Speaker 1: he's made it very difficult to be in opposition to

2380
02:12:45,480 --> 02:12:48,640
Speaker 1: him at times because of the erratic and chaotic nature.

2381
02:12:49,040 --> 02:12:53,120
Speaker 1: So ultimately I'm focusing. I try to focus more on

2382
02:12:53,160 --> 02:12:58,200
Speaker 1: what he's doing and less on what he's saying. Not

2383
02:12:58,240 --> 02:13:02,040
Speaker 1: ignoring it, but just trying to emphasize it. All Right,

2384
02:13:02,840 --> 02:13:05,480
Speaker 1: I'm going to shut things down for all of twenty

2385
02:13:05,560 --> 02:13:13,200
Speaker 1: four hours. I will be coming to you actually from

2386
02:13:13,440 --> 02:13:17,200
Speaker 1: Cambridge for the next episode, or at least for pieces

2387
02:13:17,320 --> 02:13:20,240
Speaker 1: of the next episode. I will have a longer mail

2388
02:13:20,280 --> 02:13:22,360
Speaker 1: bag and I'll explain what I'm doing there. I'll give

2389
02:13:22,400 --> 02:13:25,400
Speaker 1: you a little deep brief of a talk and a

2390
02:13:25,400 --> 02:13:29,920
Speaker 1: conversation that I'll be having with folks at the Kennedy School,

2391
02:13:30,920 --> 02:13:33,280
Speaker 1: and with that, I'll see you in twenty four hours.

2392
02:13:33,280 --> 02:13:34,040
Speaker 1: Thanks for checking in.