1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: So a funny thing happened on the way to Part 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: two of Sports Conspiracies. You may be able to tell 3 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: that I was, Uh, I was coming around to some 4 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 1: of Brian Tooey's ideas here. He makes some really good 5 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: points to this day, I don't believe I am fully 6 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: persuaded all the way too. You know, agree with all 7 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: of all of Brian's beliefs, but he makes some incredibly 8 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: compelling cases for at least several aspects of conspiracy in 9 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: the world of sports. Oh yeah, he certainly does. I 10 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: think he may have convinced me pretty early. I want 11 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: to make a quick shout out to another podcast. If 12 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: you finish listening to this episode and you want to 13 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 1: learn more about this stuff, head on over to the 14 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV show whistle Blower. It's all about the NBA 15 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: and the same kind of stuff that Brian Towey's talking about, 16 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: just a very specific instance of it. Yes, that is 17 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: a that's a spot on shout out there. It's a 18 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: it's a great series. Tune in after you check out 19 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: this classic uh, And if you want to learn more 20 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 1: from the host, Tim Livingston, you can also check out 21 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: our interview with him. That's right, It's all about Tim 22 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: Donnie another Tim. That's what shows about. It's a very 23 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:30,479 Speaker 1: Tim Rich show. Yes, so many Tims here. We go 24 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 25 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained defense. You can turn back now or 26 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, 27 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt beat 28 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: the Spread, Frederick, and my name is Null Boogie down Brown. 29 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: My name has been in lieu of nick him. I 30 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: picked up some veggie straws that bowling and you are you? 31 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: We hope that you also have a cool gambling or 32 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: mafios type nickname to attach yourself. I'm always a fan 33 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: of calling somebody two hands Matt, two hands, Frederick. That 34 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 1: just sounds so sketchy, Maddie six hats at the same time, 35 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: a number and a thing Matt, Maddie fresh finger. I 36 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: mean I'm I'm very hygienic, so that mean well, while 37 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: we while we ponder that, uh, let's go ahead and 38 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 1: catch you up the speed. If you missed our previous episode, 39 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 1: then stop what you're doing and go back and listen 40 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: to that first. Because this is part two of a 41 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: two part series. In our previous episode, we begin an 42 00:02:55,600 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 1: interview with an expert on corruption and conspiracy within the 43 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: world of sports, gentleman named Brian Tooey, and he's written 44 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,799 Speaker 1: several books. Uh. He We were fortunate enough to get 45 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: some time with him, and UH, it was just too 46 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: big for one episode. So now we are returning and 47 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: where we last left off. Can we get like a 48 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: previously on lost thing, but with stuff they want you 49 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: to know, previously on stuff they don't want you to know. 50 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: Perfect Previously we were we were exploring the relationship between 51 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: organized crime and organized sports, and that's the reason we're talking. Uh. 52 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: I think the weirdest thing we learned is that I'm 53 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: due to the mob fixing boxing matches. Uh. Ultimately America 54 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: became hooked on cable television because you had to see it. 55 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: You had to see it in that moment. It was 56 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: extremely important that it was live. So I don't know, guys, 57 00:03:58,200 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: let's say, you know, let's dispense with the pre am 58 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: and get right into the uh, the good stuff. When 59 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: we talk about the fascination that people have with with sports, 60 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:19,359 Speaker 1: one of the things that that we see tremendously popular 61 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: today with the with the rise of modern technology is 62 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: the famous or infamous practice of fantasy leagues fantasy football 63 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: for instance. Uh So, how are these fantasy league services 64 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: like Draft Kings or fan Duel altering the sports gambling market. Well, 65 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: according to them, they're not gambling first of all, so 66 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: they're not affecting the gambling market at all because they 67 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: have to live and breathe on that, in my opinion, 68 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 1: lie that they're not gambling. Um, and they've actually been 69 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,559 Speaker 1: kind of busted for that. Now. Now there's this whole 70 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: upheaval really in that daily fantasy industry because out of States, 71 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: because their ads are so ubiguous and so in your 72 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: face for so long. Early in last year's football season, 73 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 1: you know, States finally woke up and said, well, what 74 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: is this? Is this gambling? Who who's doing this? How 75 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: much money is being made? And now that they looked 76 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: into it, they said, holy cow, we kind of missed 77 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: the boat on this stuff. Um. You know, it has 78 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: changed the way people consume their sports. And really, sports 79 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: is what's keeping television, I think, alive, because it's the 80 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 1: only thing that needs to be consumed alive. Everything else 81 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: you can DVR and watch it later, but sports, if 82 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: you don't watch it live. You know you're gonna find 83 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: out sooner or later before you get to come home 84 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: and watch it. You know, I'll record it, and by 85 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 1: then you know it's too late. Anyway, the excitement has 86 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: gone on it. But daily Fantasy Sports is really fed 87 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,559 Speaker 1: into this notion that not only will people watched the games, 88 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: but they're gonna be watching it in a new way 89 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: because they're gonna have a financial stake in these games. 90 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,239 Speaker 1: And that's why I think sports gambling is so popular 91 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: and why like the NFL ratings are so high, is 92 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: because people are watching because they have money of their 93 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 1: own on the line and the outcome of the game 94 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: not only on the players, but on the teams and 95 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: on the final score and whatever else you can bet 96 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: on within these events and without it, without the gambling end. 97 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 1: And it's funny because the league's know this but they 98 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: won't admit it, But without the gambling end, their ratings 99 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: and their interest level would just plumb. It. It really 100 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 1: starts coming into perspective when you think about all of 101 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: the different sports being broadcast across so many different channels 102 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: at any time, about how much money is just getting 103 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: funneled in and throughout this so many games. Like I said, 104 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: I'm not a big sports guy, but it blows. There's 105 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: always some game on and everyone that is really into it, 106 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: they know exactly when their games on, and like people 107 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: will fight over the TV and bars because there's game 108 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 1: playing at the same exact time and it's just you know, 109 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: and there's a new ESPN spinoff channel like every other week. Well, 110 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: and the crazy thing is the how dependent, like you said, 111 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: these media companies are on these sports to to feed 112 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: their advertising, right. Well, and it's not only that, but 113 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: you have to remember the television networks fund professional sports. 114 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: You know, ESPN gives the NFL nearly two billion dollars 115 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: a year for Monday Night Football when they spend a 116 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: hundred and ten million dollars on every Monday Night Football 117 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: production just for the rights to that game. That's before 118 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: they pay any broadcaster, cameraman anything. They're paying a hundred 119 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: and ten million dollars basically, you know, big budget Hollywood 120 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: movie every week just to broadcast the National Football League. 121 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: And you can go through them all, I mean, the 122 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: CBS funds, the NFL, NBC funds, the NFL, Fox Sports funds, 123 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: the NFL and without that six billion dollars a year 124 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: the NFL gets from television. The NFL would be in 125 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: trouble if it didn't have it. And that goes the 126 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: same with Major League Baseball, the NBA, and all the 127 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: other leagues. They are really many ways funded by television, 128 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: and I think that's why this idea of the league 129 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: fixing their own game is an absurd because they need 130 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: the television money to survive. Television needs the advertising revenue 131 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: to basically pay the leagues to you know, to afford 132 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: to be able to broadcast those games, and so everybody 133 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: can make a profit off it as long as the 134 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: games are entertaining and exciting, and the leagues have the 135 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: very real ability to manipulate the games while they're going 136 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,679 Speaker 1: on to keep them entertaining and exciting throughout the course 137 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: of the game, so you're watching to the two man warning, 138 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 1: or to the final buzzer or into the ninth thing, 139 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: because they perhaps can manipulate these things to make sure 140 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: that those exciting events take place really quickly. I want 141 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: to learn about the benefits of owning a big league team, 142 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: any team, Like let's say I'm just a guy that 143 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: has a couple million dollars. I want to own a team. 144 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: Why would I want to do that. It's a good question. 145 00:08:57,960 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: First of all, they would have to let you in. 146 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: You and just buy a team because you want to. 147 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: The other owners have to allow you into their little club. 148 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: So just because you have the money doesn't mean you're 149 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: gonna be welcomed in with open arms. Um they have 150 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: to accept to But you know, it's interesting because some owners, 151 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: actually I believe, owned teams almost as tax right off, 152 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: and they don't care if the team wins or loses. 153 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: They use them as like a calling card to say, Hey, 154 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: I own this team. Why don't you guys come up 155 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: to my private box and we'll do some business while 156 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: the game is going on. And I think other especially 157 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: long time owners like guys who the guys who owned 158 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: the Bears, the McCaskey family, the Mayor's who owned the Giants, 159 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: the Runeys who own the Steelers in the NFL. They've 160 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: owned the team's really since the inception of the league, 161 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: and that's all they have and so it's their life 162 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: bloods these teams in these leagues. So you know, it's 163 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: a new The modern error owners I think are kind 164 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,319 Speaker 1: of buying into the league's because they want the prestige 165 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: and kind of the calling card that goes with owning 166 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: the team. Some monymous tax right offs, and some just 167 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,839 Speaker 1: have of the teams so long that they know nothing 168 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: else but this sport or this league. And how how 169 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: do those owners then function within the league itself, like 170 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: within the NBA or the NFL. Do they have a 171 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: say in like what goes down, how everything works? Oh? Yeah, 172 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: they own it. It's their league. That's what fans I think. 173 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: Another thing they don't understand is the owners own the league. 174 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: It's there since their private company, and they can do 175 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,199 Speaker 1: with it what they want. It doesn't matter what other 176 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,959 Speaker 1: people say. Those people own it, I mean. And that's 177 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: when the proven conspiracies in sports again, that shows what 178 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: these owners can do. Back in the nineteen eighties, Major 179 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: League Baseball owners were they felt losing money on their league, 180 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: and so they got together to I forget how many 181 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: teams that were in the league at the time, but 182 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: the thirty owners of the Major League Baseball and the 183 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: commission are all set down in a room together and decided, 184 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: we're not going to pay for anybody else's free agents 185 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: this year. We're gonna'll save money. We're gonna cut salary costs. 186 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: We're going to save money. Nobody signed anybody else's free agents. 187 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: And to a man, the Major League Baseball owners stuck 188 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 1: to that. It didn't matter if you owned to the Yankees, 189 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: you own the Cubs, you own the Royals, you own 190 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: the Angels. To a man, they said, we're not going 191 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,239 Speaker 1: to pay for anybody else's free agents. And that's exactly 192 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: what they did. And they were Hall of Fame guys, 193 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: future Hall of famers that they came free agents that 194 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: year and the following year and the year after that. 195 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 1: A Major League Baseball still stuck to its guns. It's 196 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,599 Speaker 1: called collusion. It's this, it's really conspiracy. Guys sitting in 197 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 1: the room deciding this is what we're gonna do. It 198 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: didn't matter for the fact, winds didn't matter, affective losses, 199 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: who won the World Series, who made the playoffs. They 200 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: were there to save money and make money. And they 201 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: did it to such an extreme extent that Major League 202 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 1: Baseball Players Associations suit him and one about three billion 203 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: dollars from them because they made it so blatantly obvious. 204 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 1: But the fact is, the owners got together in the room, 205 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: made a decision and stuck to it, and they have 206 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: that sort of power and ability. No, Brian, the one 207 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: of the interesting points that you raise in some of 208 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: your work is something that again something that will surprise 209 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: a lot of our listeners, I believe, which is, uh, 210 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: you say that the big four leagues enjoy anti trust exemptions? 211 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: Is that correct? Well, Major League Baseball mainly does, and 212 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 1: they have for a long time, basically back to the 213 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: I forgot it was like the nineteen twenties, if not 214 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,559 Speaker 1: before then, Congress or some reason gave them an anti 215 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: trust exemption and although it's been challenged a couple of times, 216 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: it's they've never lost it. So they are legally allowed 217 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: to be a monopoly and one of the few because 218 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: in many ways they weren't deemed to be interstate commerce 219 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:46,839 Speaker 1: for some reason which nobody can really fully explain today. 220 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: But that's the fact of the matter is Major League 221 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: Baseball wasn't deemed to be interstate commerce, so therefore they 222 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:57,959 Speaker 1: weren't really you know, basically a monopoly for whatever reason, 223 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 1: and so they were given this anti trust exemption. You know, 224 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: the NFL and the NBA and the other leagues as well. 225 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 1: It's kind of been awarded there too to a certain 226 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 1: extent in order to negotiate the television contracts that they have. So, 227 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: I mean, they're all kind of almost legally allowed to 228 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,839 Speaker 1: be monopolies and that allows them in many ways to 229 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: operate in the way they do and also gives them 230 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: a lot of authority. And in many ways, you know, 231 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: Congress has always been an even local governments have been 232 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: very friendly with sports teams and leagues. And that's why 233 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: you see so many, you know, cities bending over backwards 234 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 1: to build the billionaire owners new stadiums when really tax 235 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: when they shouldn't be going to funding the new stadium 236 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,199 Speaker 1: because the city is not getting really a lot of 237 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,679 Speaker 1: benefit of it. It's the billionaire owner who is. So 238 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: why isn't he forking over the money to build themselves 239 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,079 Speaker 1: a new stadium. We've got that two fold here in Atlanta, 240 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: where like literally the former football stadium is right next 241 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: to where they're building the bigger, batter, newer football stadium 242 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: and they're just going to tear the old one down 243 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: and there's nothing wrong with that at all. No, And 244 00:13:57,880 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: we have that too, I mean, we have the same 245 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: thing here in Mala gaming. The baseball stadium, yes, was 246 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: dated but they built the new one Miller Park, right 247 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: next to old County Stadium, like in the parking lot. 248 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: And now we got the same thing with the Milwaukee Bucks. 249 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: They have a pretty decent arena, the Bradley Center, but 250 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: yet that's not good enough for the new owners. So 251 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: they demanded a new stadium, and for whatever reason, the 252 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: people Milwaukee said, sure, okay, we'll build you one, despite 253 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: the fact you guys have more enough money to build 254 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: your own, And so they're going to build it pretty 255 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: much next door to the old one too. And it 256 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: happens everywhere. I mean, the Houston Astrodome is still standing. 257 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: It actually is going to cost more money to deconstructed 258 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: than it is to leave its standing where it is 259 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: right now. But yet there it sits, and there's a 260 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: new stadium pretty much right next door for the Astros. Yeah, 261 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: that's one of the one of the things I've been 262 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: learning as I've been following the Atlanta Braves move to 263 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: Cobb County here, and it's crazy to see how much 264 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: money from cities from counties end up going in from 265 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: taxpayers really to pay for all these new stadiums and 266 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: the stadiums. In your book, you you mentioned stats where 267 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: the stadiums doesn't matter how new they are. It doesn't 268 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: seem to affect how the games are actually played and 269 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: whether you win or lose well. And the funny thing 270 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: is that it doesn't really affect the city that they're 271 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: played in. And I mean there's people way smarter than me, 272 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: sports economists and such who have done studies of you know, 273 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: what happens when a team leaves the city, or what 274 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: happens when the team arrives in a new city, and 275 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: it doesn't really affect the economy of this city at all. 276 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: It doesn't really affect the economy of the local businesses 277 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: right near the new stadium or the old stadium at all. 278 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: It just seems, you know, entertainment money gets spent on 279 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: football or baseball, or it gets spent on you know, 280 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: the opera or movies or some other form of entertainment 281 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: if a team leaves, I mean, it doesn't really help 282 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: a city to have a major league team. Yet that's 283 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: always the pitch. You know, you have to be a 284 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: major league city to be respected, I guess in this country, 285 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: and therefore you have to have some sort of major 286 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: League team. I mean, one of the best things I 287 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: ever saw was on HBO Sports Real Sports, and there's 288 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: this whole controversy over the Marlin Stadium in Miami. And 289 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: the guy for HBO Sports was talking to one of 290 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: the big wigs for the Marlins and he said, well, 291 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: you know who gets the money for ticket sales? And 292 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: he's like, well, the Marlins do. He's like, yes, well, 293 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: then you know who gets the money for the parking, 294 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: Well the Marlins do. Who gets you know, money for 295 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: when there's another event held in the Marlin Stadium, Well 296 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: the Marlins do. And basically everything, all the money went 297 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: to the Marlins. At the end, the interview for HBO 298 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: Sports said, well, what are the people in Miami get? 299 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: He said, well, they get Marlin's baseball equated all that money, 300 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: but you know, you get you get the honor of 301 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: I mean, the Miami Marlins play here. Wow. Great, thanks, 302 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: despite the fact that you built the city out about 303 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: three million dollars. Great. Thanks. Now, this is uh, this 304 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: is a good spot for us to explore on something else, 305 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: like the other side of this earlier when we had asked, 306 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: you know, why isn't this reported more often than we uh, 307 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: you know, we learned that there is a vested interest 308 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: in the side of mainstream media. And we also learned 309 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 1: that maybe when someone puts on their Steelers hat or 310 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: their Braves hat or something or a jersey, that they're 311 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 1: not thinking as critically as they could. But still, of 312 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: course there will always be skeptics. So what what do 313 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: you have to say to the people who would who 314 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: would allege that, um, this doesn't happen, or this is 315 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: somehow exaggerated, and and how have the Big four reacted 316 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 1: to allegations of fixing. Well, they don't have to react 317 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: to the allegations because nobody's making them really Beside myself, 318 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: oh boy, so you know they're kind of even the 319 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: clear there. Um, you know, I can talk to fans, 320 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: it's funny, even my own friends. It took a very 321 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: long time to convince them that this was perhaps a 322 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: very real situation within the major leagues, that games were 323 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,400 Speaker 1: being manipulated and fixed in various ways for various reasons. 324 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,239 Speaker 1: And you know, if you're a true believer, it's like 325 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: trying to tell somebody, you know, Santa Claus doesn't exist. 326 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: You know, a kids like, what do you mean? You know, 327 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: they almost have to get it in their head that 328 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: this is a possibility, and then start watching games with 329 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: that kind of mindset and remind them that, hey, look, 330 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: this is a business. Their business is entertainment. They're trying 331 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: to entertain you, not watch how they potentially you're manipulating 332 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: these games to do that. And if you watch games 333 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: with that mindset and watch how playoff series evolve and 334 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 1: how these storylines evolve within the media about certain players 335 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 1: and certain teams, and you kind of put all that together, 336 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: I think then it can start to think in that 337 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: maybe there is something bigger going on behind the scenes 338 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: to make certain outcomes happen, because that's what they're promoting, 339 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: and it's amazing what they're promoting seems to always becoming true. 340 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: So I mean, I think you have to kind of 341 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: put that nugget in their brain and you have to 342 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: let it germinate and grow in there. It's just it's 343 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: not like you could point to a specific example and 344 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 1: somebody's gonna turn on a die because a lot of 345 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: times I can talk to people and say, oh, think 346 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 1: about this game or think about that game, and they 347 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: be like yeah, yeah, yeah, and then I mentioned something 348 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: with the team they like in it where their team 349 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: might have fixed the game. Then they're like whoa, whoa, 350 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 1: whoa No no no no uh, and then I lose them. 351 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: So it has to be something that's not totally personal 352 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: to them and then they can kind of go along 353 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 1: with it. But once it becomes personal to them, then 354 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: it's a different story. And we'll pause there just for 355 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: a moment. It's time for word from our sponsor. Let's 356 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: talk about an example from pretty recent times. Two thousand seven, 357 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: the case of former NBA referee Tim Doneghie, where he 358 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: was investigated by the FBI UM for what seemed like 359 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: game fixing. We'll get into it a little bit more, 360 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: but they ultimately did not pursue those particular charges and 361 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: instead we're looking more at wire fraud, UM, other kinds 362 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: of fraud. But UM, just for listeners, this guy was 363 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: a referee and a lot of sports experts to this 364 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: day are pretty convinced that he was able to influence 365 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: the course of the game. And UM, there was a 366 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 1: gentleman you use quotes from in UM your book that 367 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: talks about how he called him Elvis and he said 368 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: he was the master because he could make calls that 369 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: seemed legit but ultimately kind of guided the course of 370 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: the game, and I just want to hear your take 371 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: on this case and and how do you think he 372 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: was able to do that and have it not be 373 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: just clear as day that he was doing it. Well, Donny, 374 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 1: he he was I think a thirteen year veteran of 375 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 1: the NBA when all this started taking place, and he 376 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 1: was actually I think one of the top three rated 377 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 1: officials in the NBA while he was supposedly involved in 378 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: this whole betting scheme, and what people think he was 379 00:20:55,640 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: doing was basically making more calls, more follow halls and 380 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,439 Speaker 1: kinda was more obscure foul calls than the other officials, 381 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: and they just assumed he was doing his job better 382 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,439 Speaker 1: the league supposedly, when in fact, he was kind of 383 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 1: doing this to influence the outcome of games, like he 384 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: was making bets on games that he officiated and winning 385 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: more often than not. Well, that's that's where the whole 386 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: gray area in the whole thing comes up. And why 387 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,880 Speaker 1: he wasn't investigated for game fixing is don He claims 388 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: he wasn't fixing games, and he wasn't really betting on 389 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: the games he officiated, and he claims he was working 390 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 1: with this bookie he knew and giving him inside information 391 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: based on his knowledge of the other officials behavior and 392 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: how the league really operated, which goes back to my 393 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: idea of the manipulating their own games, and he was 394 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: making money that way. The book, he claims Donni he 395 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: was pretty much outright fixing games and the only time 396 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: he really won money was on games Donni he was 397 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: directly involved in. So it's kind of a he said, 398 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 1: he said situation, and my bet is they're both right, 399 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,439 Speaker 1: and that's my guess. But the fact is is, Donnie, 400 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:12,199 Speaker 1: he would probably still be officiating today had the FBI 401 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: that being involved in a wire tap or some other 402 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 1: organized crime and investigation where one of the guys said, hey, 403 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: we have an NBA referee in our back pocket. Had 404 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 1: that not occurred, Donnie, he wasn't suspected at all by 405 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: the NBA for doing anything wrong. And really, I mean 406 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: there were some betters, some real heavy betters who bet 407 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 1: NB exclusively kind of finding strange occurrences going on within 408 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: Donnaghee's games, But I mean, there was nothing that was 409 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: really public or anything that was really drawing a huge 410 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 1: interest from a lot of people into what was going on. 411 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 1: If it wasn't for that little flip of the tongue, 412 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: probably none of this would have come out. And that's 413 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: the scary part of it all is it could have 414 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 1: just happened that gone away, and nobody would have known 415 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: about it, because again my claim is that the sports 416 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: media that supposed watchdog for professional sports and college sports 417 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: doesn't do nearly enough investigator reporting or really even questioning 418 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 1: the outcome of certain games and looking at the potentiality 419 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: for game fixing within American sports because it's again, if 420 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: the FBI can't prove it house an investigative report, are 421 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: going to prove it, and nobody wants to hear it. 422 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: That's the other problem with sports and sports fans is 423 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: they don't want to hear this sort of thing. They 424 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 1: just want to be entertained into these games transpire and 425 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: just be entertained by it, just like they went to 426 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: a movie or watched the TV show. That's all they 427 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: really care about, and that's what the sports media panders to. 428 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: So speaking of the sports media, we've talked a lot 429 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: about slippery cases or murky cases. For our listeners, Brian, 430 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 1: our our folks are gonna hang hang us by our 431 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: toes if we don't talk about FIFA, which is one 432 00:23:54,880 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 1: of the most recent and uh, most damning UH scandals 433 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: in recent times. What we're talking about, specifically is when 434 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: the US Department of Justice indicted fourteen current and former 435 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 1: FIFA officials and associates on charges of and I quote, rampant, systemic, 436 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 1: and deep rooted corruption following a major inquiry by the 437 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: Federal Bureau of Investigation. And earlier you had mentioned some 438 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 1: of the FBI documents, UH, and we know that we 439 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: know that law enforcement has been investigating corruption and sports 440 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: in the past. UH. And we also know that there 441 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 1: is very strong evidence that US government agencies have in 442 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: the past colluded with organized crime in in separate instances. 443 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: Could could we explore briefly why FIFA was indicted, but 444 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: why these other you know, the US based leagues have 445 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: not had more investigation. That's a good question, because to 446 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,439 Speaker 1: be honest, I don't think anybody was more surprised than 447 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: myself that it was the Americans that basically busted FIFA 448 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: for what they were doing. I mean, it really blew 449 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,879 Speaker 1: my mind because there's a lot of kind of international 450 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:24,400 Speaker 1: organizations that have being been created based up this fixing scandals. 451 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: And such that has occurred in Europe, in the Far 452 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: East and other places around the world within soccer, and 453 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like there's really any Americans involved in 454 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: any of them. It's always kind of a European thing 455 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: or South American thing. It doesn't seem like America gets 456 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: involved in. Yet, when this whole FIFA bribery scandal kind 457 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: of came out and the corruption scandal came out, I 458 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: was shocked that it was the FBI and the Department 459 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 1: of Justice that was the one that really went after 460 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,199 Speaker 1: FIFA because it didn't seem like they were interested in 461 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 1: it at any time before the announcement came that they're 462 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: going after them. So it really kind of surprised me. 463 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 1: And it's not it's interesting because you know FIFA. I 464 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: think I really think the main reason the Americans went 465 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 1: after FIFA was because we were mad we didn't corrupt 466 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: them well enough, because I think what happened was is, 467 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: you know, Russia and it was cutter guitar however you 468 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: want to pronounce it, basically bribed FIFA to get the 469 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: World Cup to come to those countries. And nobody knows 470 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 1: why in God's green Earth they would want to play 471 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: uh soccer tournament in the middle of the desert in 472 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: the middle of the summer like they would in Qatar. 473 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: But when they paid so much money to FIFA wealth, 474 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: that's how they got it. And there were in America 475 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: was in the running for both of those World Cups 476 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,640 Speaker 1: and we lost out on it. And I think that's 477 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,199 Speaker 1: why the investigation took places. We kind of felt like 478 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: we got screwed in a way, and so we started 479 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 1: investigating and looking into it. And the fact is is 480 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 1: nobody's really surprised that there's corruption was FIFA. That we've 481 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: known there's been corruption within FIFA for a very very 482 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: long time. It's just it's really hard to go after it. 483 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,080 Speaker 1: And I think that's the same reason it's hard to 484 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 1: go after the NFL or the NBA or that sort 485 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: of thing. And it's really hard to pick this stuff 486 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: apart and rooted out because you know, sports and the 487 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 1: like the sports, for I react then involves fixing games. 488 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 1: In investigating fixing games here in the United States, you know, 489 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: is that really important compared to all the other things 490 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: the FBI could be investigating and looking into. I mean, 491 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 1: on the grand scale of things, you know, a fixed 492 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: NFL game doesn't really mean that much to a lot 493 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: of people. I mean, you know, as opposed to what happened. 494 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,439 Speaker 1: Why the FBI really kind of quit investigating was the 495 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: War on Drugs was initiated, and terrorism came up and 496 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: all these other things that kind of took precidence over 497 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: looking to do a fixed college basketball game. And I 498 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: think that's the same with the FIEFA thing is for 499 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: the longest time, nobody really cared because there was bigger 500 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 1: fish to fry, and then suddenly this became one of 501 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: the bigger fish, so they decided to finally go after it. 502 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: I think it's been in the news quite a bit lately, um, 503 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 1: I mean in the past as well. Uh, just these 504 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: high profile doping programs that have been exposed, like the 505 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 1: most recent one was the Russian Olympic team. Um. Why 506 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: do you think that the general public and sports fans 507 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 1: are less willing to believe that sports fixing is taking 508 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 1: place when these programs are known to exist and often 509 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 1: be systematic and supported by officials, you know, for example 510 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: with the Russian Olympic team and people turning a blind eye. 511 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: And do you see any similarity or differences in doping 512 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: with the idea of sports fixing, isn't it its own 513 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: kind of sports fixing? Well, they've also known that, you know, 514 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: some of the guys who have been fixing like the 515 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: soccer matches and stuff, have been using performers and dancing 516 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,479 Speaker 1: drugs to get to the players. They use it as 517 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: they're in, They provide the performance enhancing and drugs and 518 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: then basically blackmail them once they provided it to them 519 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 1: to get them to alter the outcome of games. And 520 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: that's one of the kind of there in. I guess 521 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: what I mean is is like what is the base level? 522 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: Like what why do people feel like they need to 523 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: believe eve that everyone is on an equal playing field 524 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: all the time when we know that performance enhancing dancing 525 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: drugs are at play as well. You know, why is it? Suster? 526 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: It's altering the outcome of games to performance enhancing drugs, 527 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, we know if you look back 528 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 1: and we know Sammy Sylison Mark McGuire were hitting all 529 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: those home runs because they were using some sort of steroids. 530 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: We know Barry Bonds is doing the same thing, and 531 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: that's altering the outcome of numerous games. Hundreds of games 532 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: were altered because all of these players, those three and 533 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: many many more for using performance enhancing drugs in some way, 534 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: shape or form. So I mean, you know, you look 535 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: at like you just take baseball. I mean, how many games, 536 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: how many you know, playoffs, how many World Series? How 537 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: many outcomes were changed because some of the athletes were 538 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: cheating by using drugs that they shouldn't have been using. 539 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: And how many today NFL players are using drugs that 540 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: they shouldn't be using And how many games has that 541 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: changed the outcome of I mean, and that's that's I 542 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:00,080 Speaker 1: think kind of getting your questions. I mean, you know, 543 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: people say, oh, you know, games aren't being fixed, that 544 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: can't be happening. Yet at the same time, well, if 545 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: these guys are using illegal by the league standards, illegal 546 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: performance enhancing drugs to play better, to be faster, stronger, 547 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: jump further, score more you know, runs, score more touchdowns, 548 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: whatever it is that's altering the outcome of the game. 549 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: That's a manipulated fixed game in some way, shape or form, 550 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: I mean, isn't it. I mean, it's not a legit game. 551 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: It's not clean athletes against clean athletes doing their best 552 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: to see who wins. There's some cheating going on involved 553 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: in it's I guess it's just a matter of you know, 554 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: a personal opinion of what your scale of cheating you're 555 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: willing to accept or not accept. So we have a 556 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: couple of specific examples that we wanted to ask you about, 557 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: and Matt, you have one, uh with the UFC, right, Oh, yeah, 558 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: I was just reading uh. Vanderley Silva, you know, a 559 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: former Pride champion, fought for the UFC for a time. 560 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 1: He was alleging that he has or he says at 561 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: least that he has proof that the UFC fixes fights, 562 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: and I just wanted to see if you had seen 563 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: anything or heard anything with evidence to that statement. I 564 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: had heard about Silva saying that, Um, I've obviously seen 565 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: what his evidence is. But would it shocked me in 566 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: any way, shape or form. No, Because if you look 567 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: at boxing in a history of boxing and you see 568 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: how incredibly corrupts boxing was, the UFC operates in exactly 569 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: the same way. I mean boxing historically, there's a guy 570 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: named Primo Carnera. Carnara was a heavyweight champion back almost 571 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: a hundred years ago. But the fact of the matter 572 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: is he was a construct of organized crime. He never 573 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: fought in a legitimate fight except for one time when 574 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: the mobsters thought he would win. He lost. But they 575 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: fixed every fight he fought in all the way to 576 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: and including the heavyweight Championship of the World. They fixed 577 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: every fight firm to win, and then once he won, 578 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: they butt heavily against him. The next fight, had him 579 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: fight a real contender. They made a bunch of money 580 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: because he lost, and they just let him go and 581 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: he went to rott and he actually wound up in 582 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: professional wrestling. But I mean the thing, the UFC doesn't 583 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,959 Speaker 1: have that ability to control the manipulate fights. I think 584 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: it is ludicrous because again, you look at boxing and 585 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: you can point a hundred and fifty years of boxing 586 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: and see all sorts of corruption, all sorts of fixing, 587 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 1: all sorts of the things that silver a legend. And 588 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: it wouldn't surprise me, but it will probably shock the 589 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: hell out of a lot of fans because they think, again, 590 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: they live up to those cliches. They're gonna go out 591 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: and try their best when they trained so hard, and 592 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: they're gonna, you know, do their you know, live again, 593 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: live up tell the cliches. And I just don't see 594 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: why people think the UFC's cleaning when they know historically 595 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: you can see corruption and boxing from d to bottom. 596 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: Just to stay in the UFC for a second, it's 597 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: fascinating to me because it is one of the most 598 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:03,239 Speaker 1: popular emerge sport forms that has come out in you know, 599 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: the past couple of decades and I and you know, 600 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,479 Speaker 1: when you see it as an organization being sold for 601 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 1: four billion dollars and then you just think that's just 602 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: a representative of the clean money, the money that's on 603 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: the surface. You know, what they can make with pay 604 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: per view and with with fight selling tickets and all 605 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: that stuff and merch it's just crazy to think about 606 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: the money that surrounds it in the black market. Yeah. Well, 607 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 1: also with the UFC two is you know, they used 608 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: to have like things like the Fight of the Night bonus, 609 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: which they would have whatever, like six fights on the 610 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: card for a particular night, and yet they would guarantee 611 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: like fifty dollars to whoever whichever match was declared the 612 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: fight of the night. Now, if you're like one of 613 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: the preliminary fights and you're only getting paid a few 614 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 1: thousand dollars for the prelimp fight, wouldn't you maybe go 615 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 1: to the guy you're fighting and say, hey, look we 616 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: can split fifty grand. If we're the quote unquote fight 617 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: of the night, why don't we go out there and 618 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 1: give them one heck of a show. You know. Maybe 619 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: you know, the first round, you win, the second round, 620 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 1: I win, in the third round, we'll fight for real 621 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: and see who wins this thing. But if we put 622 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: on a good enough performance, we're going to get some 623 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: extra money. And I mean, those are the little ways 624 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: that a league can manipulate their own events, but do 625 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: so without really dictating what happens, you know what I mean. 626 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 1: They don't have to have that direct you lose, you 627 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:22,919 Speaker 1: win type of thing. They can just put little things 628 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 1: out there. They can just tweak things enough that you 629 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: get a better and more exciting event than perhaps you 630 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: would have if everything was on the level. It's a 631 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:36,760 Speaker 1: great point. So, Brian, one of the things that we've 632 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,800 Speaker 1: learned in the in the course of exploring your work 633 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: and in this interview, is that this is not a 634 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: victimless crime. You said it earlier in the show, and 635 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: we just want to re emphasize that because, as you said, 636 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,240 Speaker 1: the money that people spend, even on a street level 637 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: is funneling upward into an stitutionalized system that is involved 638 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: in drug running, arms trafficking, racketeering, loan sharking, prostitution as well, 639 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 1: which brings us to which brings us to a relatively 640 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 1: personal question. Do you or have you ever felt that 641 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: your life was in danger or threatened as a result 642 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:27,280 Speaker 1: of your investigations into these scandals. No, I've never really 643 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 1: felt personally threatened, like physically threatened by anything that I've researched. Um, 644 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: but I know, like career wise, what I research isn't 645 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:41,439 Speaker 1: the best best road to take. I mean, I've dealt with, 646 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: you know, the likes of ESPN, and I've dealt with 647 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated and a lot of other media outlets, and 648 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,760 Speaker 1: I know my name has got to be on certain 649 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,880 Speaker 1: lists within each one of those organizations, the media organizations, 650 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: that's who I deal with. And I'm sure I'm on 651 00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: the NFL's radar and the NBA's radar and some other 652 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,879 Speaker 1: places as well. And I mean I've seen, I mean, 653 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 1: just from a personal aspect, I know I've been kind 654 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 1: of censored by the media. I mean, when I released 655 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: Larceny Games through my publisher, which was Ferrellhouse, Large Games 656 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,239 Speaker 1: was based on over four FBI files that I was 657 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,359 Speaker 1: the first one to obtain. No one ever had gone 658 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,879 Speaker 1: after those files until I got them, and I wrote 659 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 1: this whole book based on those files, which revealed literally 660 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame athletes accused by the FBI of either 661 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: betting on their own sport or even betting on games 662 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,400 Speaker 1: in which they play, which should be huge news. And 663 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 1: when the book was released, ESPN, Yahoo Sports, Sports, Illustrated, 664 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: HBO Sports, sixty Minutes, and a few others all contacted 665 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 1: by publisher and wanted to copy the book to review it. 666 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,840 Speaker 1: And they all got the book and not one of 667 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: them did anything with the book whatsoever. Nobody reviewed it, 668 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,400 Speaker 1: Nobody said this is the worst book ever written. Nobody 669 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: followed up on any of the information that I had uncovered. 670 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: Nobody did anything within the sports media regarding this book 671 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: except the New York Post. And the New York Post 672 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: ran a story based off one of the files I 673 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 1: had uncovered, which said that nearly eighties, members of the 674 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 1: New York Knicks were shaving points as a favorite to 675 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: their cocaine dealer, and they made it kind of a 676 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 1: backpage thing, and that went viral. It was funny because 677 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,320 Speaker 1: the author who wrote the piece of New York Post 678 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: sent me a text like at seventh thirty said, oh, 679 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 1: it's online now, and like a half hour later said, oh, 680 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 1: you know, Sports Illustrated picked up on this little post 681 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: and it went viral. And it's amazing because you can 682 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 1: look online now. You can go to Google and you 683 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,240 Speaker 1: know search you know, New York Knicks, shaving points, cocaine dealer, 684 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 1: and you'll see that article or you know, a link 685 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: to that article on all sorts of outlets except ESPN. 686 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: ESPN never touched it because the ESPN is the primary 687 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,800 Speaker 1: broadcast partner of the National Basketball Association and they just 688 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,279 Speaker 1: simply wouldn't cover the story. Despite the fact that it's 689 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,760 Speaker 1: like thirty years old. They still wouldn't cover it because 690 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 1: of the association between the league and the network. And 691 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I've felt that pushback and many other aspects 692 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 1: of my little writing career here and investigating fixed games, 693 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 1: because the major sports leagues and the major sports media 694 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 1: outlets are really intertwined and they don't want this sort 695 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: of information getting out there. Yeah, and just to drop 696 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,479 Speaker 1: a sidebar in here as we're wrapping this up, we're 697 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:28,280 Speaker 1: big fans off your work on Vice Sports, which which 698 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 1: we thought it was a very good thing to see 699 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:37,839 Speaker 1: this message spreading to other places, and we would like 700 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,319 Speaker 1: for our listeners who are interested in this to come 701 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,279 Speaker 1: check out your work in some other venues or we 702 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,480 Speaker 1: do a section sometimes called further reading. Uh, where would 703 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 1: you point interested audience members to learn more about this phenomenon? 704 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: You mean besides my own work, your own work as well. 705 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: We have lar games, uh, the Fixes in and we 706 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 1: also have a season in the Abyss. Is that correct? Yeah, 707 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,319 Speaker 1: those are the three books that kind of regarding the 708 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,320 Speaker 1: subject to sports and corruption. UM. Otherwise, think go my 709 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 1: website which you like you said earlier, was the Fixes 710 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 1: in dot net um writing I did before. You can 711 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:20,839 Speaker 1: find some of it on the sports on earth dot 712 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 1: com and he said Vice Sports UM has it on 713 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: their website as well. Another guy who's really there's a 714 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 1: couple of things you can check out to finish the 715 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,359 Speaker 1: older things. UM. This guy by the name of Declan Hill. 716 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 1: He's really the prime investigator into match fixing and corruption 717 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,959 Speaker 1: within soccer, and Declan Hill is he wrote a book called, 718 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 1: I think it is simply called The Fix and it 719 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,880 Speaker 1: involved him really getting involved in getting up close and 720 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 1: personal with the guys who are fixing soccer matches, and 721 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,400 Speaker 1: it's a great work um as well on the subject. 722 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,799 Speaker 1: And the last thing here, Brian, for all of these 723 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,759 Speaker 1: sports fans listening that are concerned about this stuff and 724 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 1: kind of maybe for the first time really realizing how 725 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,480 Speaker 1: how rampant fixing is, is there anything we can do. 726 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: I think the only way to influence a sport or 727 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,640 Speaker 1: sports league is to not watch. And that's the hardest 728 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 1: thing to do if you're a fan, because I think 729 00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 1: the only thing that really affects the owners and the 730 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 1: leagues themselves is money, and if their ratings drop and 731 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,560 Speaker 1: they sense that things aren't going their way financially, then 732 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,560 Speaker 1: they'll change things. Because I think one of the reasons 733 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 1: Major League Baseball as somewhat and I won't say a lot, 734 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,319 Speaker 1: but somewhat gotten better at like drug testing than their 735 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: steroids within the game is Barry Bonds. Because Barry Bonds 736 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,720 Speaker 1: was such a jackass when he broke Hank Hearn's record 737 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,920 Speaker 1: and he broke the Yell season long home run record 738 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,719 Speaker 1: that fans kind of rebelled against him because they realized 739 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 1: that even if the sports media and the hallowed Baseball 740 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:57,879 Speaker 1: Writers of America wouldn't come out and say, this guy's 741 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 1: using steroids. Fans really this guying on the level, and 742 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:03,880 Speaker 1: I think they kind of rebelled and kind of rebelled 743 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 1: against baseball at that time, and they did cause some 744 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,480 Speaker 1: influence within Major League Baseball to say, oh, you know what, 745 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,200 Speaker 1: maybe we should try to fix this problem because the 746 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:14,160 Speaker 1: fans aren't happy. And if you're not happy, they're not 747 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 1: coming to games, they're not watching games, and we're not 748 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:17,920 Speaker 1: going to make as much money. So I think the 749 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,879 Speaker 1: only way to really affect the league, to get them 750 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,160 Speaker 1: to change the way you might want them to change, 751 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 1: is to affect them in their pocketbook. And unfortunately the 752 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:27,719 Speaker 1: only way to do that is to not attend the 753 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,600 Speaker 1: games and not watch the stuff on television, because that's 754 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,400 Speaker 1: the only thing they know. Man, I can't thank you 755 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,080 Speaker 1: enough for coming on the show and hanging out. No 756 00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 1: problem you guys having me. I'm kind of sad that 757 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:53,040 Speaker 1: interview ended. Yeah, I wish we were still there talking 758 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 1: with Brian learning about all these things, like I kind 759 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,839 Speaker 1: of want to learn so much to where I can 760 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 1: start making money ambling. Careful, buddy, careful, Why because you 761 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:05,600 Speaker 1: got real nice fingers. I'd hate to see him smashed 762 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 1: by a hammer. Hate for fresh fingers to be an 763 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:13,440 Speaker 1: ironic nickname. Maybe that's why it was foreshadowing. No but seriously, 764 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 1: Brian was such a nice dude and knowledgeable and really 765 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,360 Speaker 1: generous with his time and willingness to talk about this stuff, 766 00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: and I was kind of uh. I was interested in 767 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:28,000 Speaker 1: the fact that he does not feel particularly threatened or 768 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 1: you know, intimidated by, you know, some of these organizations. 769 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,919 Speaker 1: But at the same time, it's probably not the most 770 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:35,880 Speaker 1: popular opinion to have if you want to get a 771 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,799 Speaker 1: job writing for Sports Illustrated. He did. He did make 772 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,440 Speaker 1: a really good point where he said, you know, like 773 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,920 Speaker 1: you just heard earlier, that he didn't feel physically threatened, 774 00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 1: but he did feel like his career was he felt 775 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,160 Speaker 1: as though he were getting blackballed at certain points. So 776 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:57,800 Speaker 1: we hope that you have enjoyed this episode, ladies and gentlemen. 777 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,920 Speaker 1: We know that for some of our i hard sports 778 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,160 Speaker 1: fans out there, it might seem like your team is 779 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:09,600 Speaker 1: an exception to the rule. We don't have hard proof 780 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,719 Speaker 1: of all of this happening, right, but if you want 781 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,680 Speaker 1: more information, the books that Noel mentioned in the previous episode, 782 00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,640 Speaker 1: and then we mentioned throughout the interview are great reads 783 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,440 Speaker 1: and they're worth your time because this guy is a 784 00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,520 Speaker 1: really talented writer as well. Yes, and I think the 785 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,840 Speaker 1: concept that Brian puts out about point shaving uh and 786 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,799 Speaker 1: the point spread really really makes it, at least for 787 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,360 Speaker 1: me a little easier to see how this kind of 788 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,760 Speaker 1: stuff could happen kind of under the noses of everyone 789 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 1: to where they're small things, you know, little death by 790 00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,600 Speaker 1: thousand cuts, rather than one guy going in and throwing 791 00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,120 Speaker 1: a whole game overtly to where you can just tell 792 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,719 Speaker 1: watching your television. It's definitely something to think about. And 793 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,600 Speaker 1: I don't know about you, ladies and gentlemen. I don't 794 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,279 Speaker 1: know about you, Matt Noel, but I'm not going to 795 00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:01,279 Speaker 1: be able to look at large sporting events the same way. Yeah. 796 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:03,359 Speaker 1: I mean, if I ever watch a second football game, 797 00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:07,080 Speaker 1: it's gonna be really difficult for me to, you know, 798 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,279 Speaker 1: enjoy it in the way that I did the first 799 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:13,080 Speaker 1: one that I watched. Okay, what you were watching with 800 00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 1: an ulterior motive, to be fair, what are you getting at, man? 801 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:17,840 Speaker 1: I don't have ulterior motives, and I am what you 802 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,440 Speaker 1: see is what you get Yeah, that's my nickname. You know, 803 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,840 Speaker 1: what you see is what you get brown. They you 804 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:24,560 Speaker 1: know what they say about me, I'm an open book 805 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:26,960 Speaker 1: in a meadow on a sunny day. Nobody says that 806 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 1: about you. Everybody says that except for you. Guys. The 807 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:34,200 Speaker 1: problem is there's nobody around. The meadow is just completely empty. 808 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:38,680 Speaker 1: It's just Ben's book open in the middle of it. Okay, alright, guys. 809 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:40,960 Speaker 1: We don't all have to agree on our analogies for 810 00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 1: each other or our comparisons, but we do agree that 811 00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:51,120 Speaker 1: if you like this show, you are in luck because 812 00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:54,280 Speaker 1: we make so much other stuff as well. You can see, uh, 813 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,640 Speaker 1: you can see videos that we do live or I 814 00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,880 Speaker 1: guess not live, prerecorded hand and I don't want to 815 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,840 Speaker 1: say dead um. On our Facebook and our Twitter page. 816 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,160 Speaker 1: We are a conspiracy stuff at both of those, and 817 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:14,640 Speaker 1: we have an Instagram conspiracy stuff show. Sorry, conspiracy stuff. 818 00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:16,680 Speaker 1: Let's taken furthermore, If you'd like to check out every 819 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,920 Speaker 1: audio podcast we've ever done, you can visit our website. 820 00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,080 Speaker 1: Stuff they don't want you to know? Dot Com? What 821 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,080 Speaker 1: is it? Stuff they don't want you to know? Dot Com? Okay, 822 00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:30,120 Speaker 1: I got it. It's a lot it's mouthful, it is, 823 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,600 Speaker 1: but it's worth your time. Everything we've ever done is there, 824 00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,799 Speaker 1: and now it's time for the most important part of 825 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,480 Speaker 1: the show, really, where we ask you for your ideas. 826 00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,280 Speaker 1: This is your show as well, and our best ideas 827 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:49,240 Speaker 1: come from listeners like you. Specifically you listening to this. Nope, nope, 828 00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,319 Speaker 1: not the person next to you. I'm not talking about them. 829 00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:56,920 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about a vague specifically your ideas. We 830 00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,719 Speaker 1: want to hear them. And that's the end of this 831 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:04,080 Speaker 1: classic episode. If you have any thoughts or questions about 832 00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:07,040 Speaker 1: this episode, you can get into contact with us in 833 00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,239 Speaker 1: a number of different ways. One of the best is 834 00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:11,319 Speaker 1: to give us a call. Our number is one eight 835 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:15,040 Speaker 1: three three std w y t K. If you don't 836 00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:16,920 Speaker 1: want to do that, you can send us a good 837 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:20,640 Speaker 1: old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at i heart radio 838 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,040 Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff they don't want you to know is 839 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,080 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from 840 00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,200 Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 841 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,120 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.