1 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: It's that time, time, time, time, luck and load. Michael 2 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: Verie Show is on the air. 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 2: I'm cool to tell you today that I's time to 4 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 2: break without law rut or forever We'll begn robbing. 5 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: At five minutes. 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 3: The highlight of the year for me is any of 7 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 3: you know, and some of you have said it is 8 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 3: for you as well. Is our adoption special, which of 9 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 3: course is today. It's very important to me on a 10 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:37,279 Speaker 3: personal level, but it's very important to. 11 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 2: Me on a moral andrit large level. 12 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 3: There are more people who are adopted than you would 13 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 3: believe because you don't know that they're adopted, because you 14 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 3: didn't have any reason to know that. They don't wear 15 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 3: a shirt that says I'm adopted. But when we think 16 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 3: about the process of parenting and what our parents mean 17 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 3: to us, and what it means to be a parent, 18 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 3: which is so much more than just providing food and shelter. 19 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 3: It's discipline, it's love, its presence, it's so many things. 20 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 3: It's teaching. You know, our children should learn first and 21 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 3: foremost from parents before the schools. If you don't like 22 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 3: what the schools are teaching, it should never override what 23 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 3: you've already taught at home. The only time it's the 24 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 3: problem is if you're not using that opportunity to teach 25 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 3: at home. And that's about household finances, but that's about 26 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 3: our faith, that's about who we are as a people, 27 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 3: what our culture is. These are the things that a 28 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 3: parent should be instilling in a child. Well, the world's 29 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 3: not perfect, but God has a plan. And sometimes a 30 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 3: mother or a father dies early. Sometimes they abandon, sometimes 31 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 3: they leave. There are all sorts of things that can 32 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 3: occasion a child in a situation where there's not a 33 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 3: direct parent to parent them, and the adoption as well 34 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 3: as foster can be opportunities because don't we want every 35 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 3: child to have some sort of a chance. Don't we 36 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 3: want every child to have some sort of love like 37 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 3: we had from our parents. I know I certainly did, 38 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 3: so it's our adoption special and thank you for being 39 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 3: with us. In an op ed in Evy magazine, Leah 40 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 3: out And shared a story her story of experiencing an 41 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 3: unexpected pregnancy at the age of sixteen, and she talks 42 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 3: about that every year when we do this, we most 43 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 3: years we've had someone call up because we'll have people 44 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,359 Speaker 3: who are adopted and they tell their stories or parents 45 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 3: who adopted, and they tell their stories. More often than not, 46 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 3: it's a kid who was adopted and they're so thankful 47 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 3: for their parents, and sometimes they've lost that parent. But 48 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,119 Speaker 3: years ago, we had the first one where someone called 49 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 3: up and said, Hey, I know I'm the bad guy 50 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 3: in this story, but I had a child and I 51 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 3: gave that child up for adoption and it was an 52 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 3: act of love and it really made people think differently. 53 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 3: And ever since then, every year we typically have a 54 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 3: caller who made that choice. 55 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 2: Well, Leah Out is one of those. 56 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 3: She had pressure to seek an abortion, but she chose 57 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 3: life for her child, and she did something that's very 58 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 3: difficult to do. She put her child into the adoption 59 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 3: process and another family could enjoy that child. And Kaylee 60 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,839 Speaker 3: grew up a beautiful, wonderful child. And that's what she's 61 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 3: here to tell us about. So Leah Out, and welcome 62 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 3: to the program. 63 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 4: Oh, thank you for having me. I'm excited to share more. 64 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 3: So to start with, what made you want to share 65 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 3: this story? It's deeply personal and not everyone will consider 66 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 3: you the hero I do out of it. 67 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 4: For me, it changed my life and you know, I 68 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 4: was at sixteen on a trajectory that I wasn't proud of, 69 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 4: and to be able to now twenty two years ago, 70 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 4: since that moment of seeing those positive lines on a 71 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 4: pregnancy test, of just the healing and the journey God's 72 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 4: taken me on, and I want to share that with 73 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 4: other people as one part of why this is important 74 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 4: to me, but also because I was so well loved 75 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 4: by my church, by my family, by the agency I used, 76 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 4: by my daughter and her family, which is not always common, 77 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 4: and especially twenty two years ago, and so to be 78 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 4: able to help communities and parents to know how to 79 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 4: support a woman or a girl, whatever the age, that's 80 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 4: walking through this very difficult experience of unexpected pregnancy and 81 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 4: along with if she chooses adoption, how to do that better, 82 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 4: how to love her more. Dispelling some of those myths 83 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 4: about birth parents and that we aren't necessarily the bad 84 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 4: guy in the story. We've been an invisible, you know, 85 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 4: silent often voiceless part of this, you know adoption tried experience, 86 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 4: and so it's been very helpful for more birth parents 87 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 4: as you shared, to speak up and to share it's 88 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 4: not an easy decision. It's not that we just walked 89 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 4: away or didn't love or didn't want our children. It 90 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 4: was a decision that was difficult and made out of 91 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 4: love to help our children to have a better start 92 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 4: to life. So I fare just to help undo some 93 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 4: of those myths and showing just what it can look 94 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 4: like to not only walk through this experience, but also 95 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 4: to have an open adoption with an adopted parent and 96 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 4: how that can benefit everybody as well. 97 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 3: And to start, let's define what an open adoption is, 98 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 3: because people outside the adoption world don't know what an 99 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:23,919 Speaker 3: open and a closed adoption is. 100 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 2: So why don't you start with that. 101 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, so I know when I found out I was pregnant, 102 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 4: all I thought was close adoption of where I would 103 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 4: never see her or her know how she was doing, 104 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 4: or have photos of what she looks like. And that's 105 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 4: for a long time, that's how it was done. And 106 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 4: then the last few decades we're starting to see a 107 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 4: shift of realizing that having access to worth family to 108 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 4: answer medical questions, to know more of their adoption story, 109 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 4: their roots, their identity, medical all the things have become 110 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 4: important to know. And so with open adoption there it 111 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 4: can look lots of different ways, but there's some kind 112 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 4: of content with birth family for us that looks like 113 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 4: including visits along with photos and updates. 114 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's almost more of a collaborative process. And 115 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 3: I realized that's not for everyone. 116 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:14,799 Speaker 2: We didn't. 117 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 3: We have a closed adoption in our case, and that 118 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 3: was important to us. And look, everybody is different, and 119 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 3: that's okay. You have to decide you know who and 120 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 3: what you are. But the fact that that was important 121 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 3: to you and led you to adoption, I think is 122 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 3: the important part of this conversation. Let's talk about where 123 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 3: you were in your life when you find out you 124 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 3: are pregnant. You're only sixteen years old. I'm assuming you're 125 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 3: probably a sophomore junior in high school, and how that happened. 126 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, so I was just scarring my junior year high school, 127 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 4: had just turned sixteen, and I had been dating someone 128 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 4: through most of my sophomore year and we had just 129 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 4: really broken apart. You know, he was heading in one 130 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 4: way and I didn't like that and we were just 131 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 4: not getting along and so we had just for and 132 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 4: I found out I was pregnant a few weeks later, 133 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 4: and he really said, you should choose abortion or choose adoption. 134 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 4: But you know, I'm not ready to be a parent. 135 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 4: And we're not ready to be parents, and didn't have 136 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 4: a lot of contactors, you know, support from him after that, 137 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 4: and so I really was left to decide what to 138 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 4: do and really felt like parenting was going to be 139 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 4: my option because abortion did not feel right to me. 140 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 4: I innately knew that she had a purpose in this 141 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 4: world and it wasn't my decision and my right to 142 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 4: take that away from her. And you know, grateful for 143 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 4: parents who supported me in that decision. I never felt 144 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 4: forced to make a different decision, and you know, they 145 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 4: were willing to help me and walk through me through 146 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 4: this process. And so thought I was going to pair 147 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 4: it for many months, but as I wrestled with it, 148 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 4: I just could not find peace with parenting and that 149 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 4: led me to just being courage to make an informed 150 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 4: the vision that if parenting is not feeling right, explore 151 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 4: adoptions to make sure that that's not what you want 152 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 4: to do, or just learn more about it. And as 153 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 4: I have had mentioned, I came into this process with 154 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 4: my own bias of closed adoption as all that the world. 155 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 3: We're going to be changing the name of the Gulf 156 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 3: of Mexico to the Gulf of Michael Varry, which has 157 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 3: a beautiful way. 158 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 2: Leah is our guest. 159 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 3: We're talking about adoption because of course this is our 160 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 3: adoption special and we're talking to Leah Auten. She wrote 161 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 3: an op ed an Evy magazine about an unexpected pregnancy 162 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 3: at the age of sixteen. You can imagine a sixteen 163 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 3: year old girl, how frightened she is. And she was 164 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 3: pressured to get in an abortion, and she said, no, 165 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:50,319 Speaker 3: I'm going to choose life for my daughter, whose name 166 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 3: is Kaylee. And she did, and she pursued an open 167 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 3: adoption and it has worked beautifully. Not every open adoption 168 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 3: or closed adoption is going to work well. Not every 169 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:01,959 Speaker 3: situation is going to work well. But I think by 170 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 3: and large, this is a solution for most people. And 171 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 3: it does honor life because we didn't choose life. 172 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 2: God did. 173 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 3: And I think it's an incredible testimony in addition to 174 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 3: an experience, and that's why we've asked her to join 175 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 3: us today. Let's talk about how y'all worked through the 176 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 3: open adoption. How much did you see Kayleie did that 177 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 3: change over time? How were you referred to by her? 178 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 3: How much did you get to attend her events and 179 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 3: those sorts of things. 180 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, so our agreement was two times a year, 181 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 4: and so her birthday falls in the summer, so that 182 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 4: was a great meeting point. I went to every birthday 183 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 4: party for eighteen nineteen years. And then we also had 184 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 4: a Christmas tradition where we would get together and have 185 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 4: lunch and exchange gifts and just have fun catching up. 186 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 4: So those two were always upheld through her childhood into adulthood. 187 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,959 Speaker 4: And for us, we love spending time together. So there 188 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 4: were other opportunities and visits that would come through through 189 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 4: different seasons of her life or just what worked for 190 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 4: our schedule, and so yes, I was invited to things 191 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 4: like kindergarten graduation and her high school graduation and those 192 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 4: kinds of things, or just hanging out to have dinner 193 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,959 Speaker 4: and getting to know each other as extended family might. 194 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 4: So though, they were just very intentional about upholding that 195 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 4: commitment to me, which was really meaningful to me and 196 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 4: to her. As as big group, we knew when to 197 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 4: expect the next visit together. So She's one question that 198 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 4: she that her parents asked me when I was pregnant 199 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 4: is what do you want to be called? And I 200 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 4: love that they asked me that question and kind of 201 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:44,559 Speaker 4: gave me some voice into our experience together. And you know, 202 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 4: because mom don't get a lot of say typically about 203 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 4: what all this can look like. And so they were 204 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 4: great at asking me questions and really inviting me into, 205 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 4: you know, creating this relationship together. And so they offer 206 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 4: a different suggestions and their ideas, and nothing only felt 207 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 4: right with me. So I decided just to be miss Leah, 208 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 4: which is what they called any you know adult that 209 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 4: I and they called me birth mom as well, so 210 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 4: she knew me as her birth mom, miss Leah. And 211 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 4: then now that she's older and we've she and I 212 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 4: have more directly created a relationship in her teen years. 213 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 4: She now calls me mother Goose, which is what my 214 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 4: children that my parents called me as a joke because 215 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,199 Speaker 4: I have five of them and they follow me around 216 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 4: and I read a lot. So it's fun that she's 217 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 4: kind of felt comfortable to add another name to me. 218 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 4: And her mom is her mom, but I have another, 219 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 4: my own little name now that she's comfortable with that. 220 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 2: So tell me how she first called you mother Goose? 221 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 2: Did she ask? She did? She just say it? Tell 222 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 2: me about that moment. 223 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 4: So my my children here, as I said, they they 224 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 4: call me mother Goose, and so I think as she 225 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 4: has come to visit, she's she's come to visit us 226 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 4: and kind of immersed herself into, you know, her siblings here, 227 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 4: and so I think picking that up just being around 228 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 4: because sometimes we would have longer visits in the summer 229 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 4: for a weekend or a week and so it was 230 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 4: a much more immersive experience where it felt more comfortable 231 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 4: to include something that was more personal like that. So 232 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 4: I don't think she asked, It was just kind of 233 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 4: started to become part of the normal conversation as we 234 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 4: grew closer together more naturally. 235 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 3: And how often did you see her? Have you seen 236 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 3: her over the years? Just have more or less now? 237 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 3: And how has that changed? What's the nature of that interaction. 238 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's esen flows through different seasons. And 239 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 4: the first three years we had a lot of visits 240 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 4: as we were building this foundation of our relationship together. 241 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 4: So the first three years we had visits probably every 242 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,599 Speaker 4: other month. I was sixteen with a frustrator's license, and 243 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 4: so I loved to be able to come visit them, 244 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 4: and they invited me, you know, to come stan time 245 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 4: with them and have dinner and those those dinner table 246 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 4: moments really shaped how our really and ship was building 247 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 4: then and what it looks like now. The elementary years, 248 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 4: it was we were all busier, you know, her was school, 249 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 4: me with growing, my family, married and all those kinds 250 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 4: of things. So that was really just the two times 251 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 4: of year that we knew to expect for Birthday and Christmas. 252 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 4: And then her teen years is when she started to 253 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 4: ask more. She was the third, you know voice, it 254 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 4: became the more important voice in our adoption relationship. And 255 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 4: she has always known who I am and her story 256 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 4: and wanted to know more as she was heading into 257 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 4: those identity for me years and really the wheels turning 258 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 4: about adoption and her terming sixteen and really understanding, wow, 259 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 4: this is what you This is the age you were 260 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 4: when you had me, and I can understand more now 261 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 4: about why you would choose adoption, and you know, just 262 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 4: having more opportunity to grow and to learn from one another. 263 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 4: And so her teen years she started to ask for 264 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 4: about quarterly, and so that's where we've probably from sixteen 265 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 4: up to now with her being twenty one, we aimed 266 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 4: for probably one per season least. 267 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 2: That's fascinating. 268 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 3: What led you to write the Upbed in ev magazine, 269 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 3: I think again. 270 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 4: I always just felt like I needed to share the 271 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 4: story because all that God has done in my life 272 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 4: helping other women to know that there is support out there, 273 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 4: whether they choose adoption or whether they choose the parent, 274 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 4: that you know, resources like her plan exist and are 275 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 4: can be so helpful to find community and resources and 276 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 4: support for whatever the path is, because there's no easy path. 277 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 4: All of it hard. And this was choosing your heart 278 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 4: and knowing to go to and where to go to 279 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 4: to define that support. And I just want women to 280 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 4: know that there is hope, that you know there is 281 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 4: a path forward beyond this this moment that can feel 282 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 4: you know, a crisis or devastating, or you know the 283 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 4: world's upside down, and that there's there's hope. Yeah, that 284 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 4: it's and the seeking the Lord and for that guidance 285 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 4: and for that piece of. 286 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 3: Whatever that looks like, hold with me for just a moment. 287 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 3: Leah Outon is our guest. The op ed she wrote 288 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 3: in Evy magazine Cut Our Attention a few months back, 289 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 3: and it was about it was about her decision at 290 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 3: sixteen with an I don't want to call it unwanted. 291 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 3: I want to call it unexpected, which I think is 292 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 3: the term she used. As National Adoption Month in November 293 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 3: and our Adoption special roles on we celebrate those mothers 294 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 3: who make the decision of life. 295 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 2: It's not an easy thing to do. 296 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 3: It's not an easy thing to do, but I think 297 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 3: she proves it's a rewarding and wholesome and godly thing 298 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 3: to do. 299 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 2: I will die for the country. I will die for. 300 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 3: Discribe to Michael Barry Joe, it's the big honor to 301 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 3: be living in the United States. 302 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 2: Leah Oughton is our guest. 303 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 3: She wrote an op ed in ev magazine about having 304 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 3: an unexpected pregnancy at the age of sixteen and she 305 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 3: did not intend to supplant God's will that child was there, 306 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 3: and under pressure to seek an abortion, she chose life 307 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 3: for her daughter, Kayleie and an open adoption, and she 308 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 3: has had a rewarding relationship with her daughter, who was 309 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 3: adopted by another family. And her daughter is now twenty 310 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 3: one years old. And we're talking about how she's navigated 311 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 3: this and why it's important to her to share with 312 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 3: other people. And I love that. I absolutely love that. 313 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 3: I read that you have become a prolific advocate, public 314 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 3: speaker and writer on the joys of open adoption? How 315 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 3: did you get involved doing that? And I'm curious what 316 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 3: kind of questions people ask about this. 317 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 4: So I heard started speaking just a few months after 318 00:16:55,120 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 4: she was born because my agency wanted to share with 319 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 4: local nurses at the hospital of you know, how to 320 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 4: love a birth parent well, who's choosing adoption in the 321 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 4: hospital setting, and the most vulnerable parts of the placement process. 322 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 4: And so it's those opportunities have just come up through 323 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 4: the years and just been asked to write about it 324 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,199 Speaker 4: and to share about it. I also blogged and wrote 325 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 4: through my pregnancy and their early years, and that's continued 326 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 4: to grow to the books I write, and writing with 327 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 4: such a healing part of my journey to process my 328 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 4: emotions and capture those moments that I got to share 329 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 4: with her through the years, and to connect with other 330 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 4: birth moms and adoptees and adopted parents, because there's everybody's 331 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 4: coming into this with curiosity, whether they have a personal 332 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 4: experience with adoption or they're outside the experience, and it's 333 00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 4: something that's completely new. And so I think writing speaking 334 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 4: has just been such a connecting experience to help other 335 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 4: people to know you're not alone in this and here's 336 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 4: what's worked in our journey and what's been helpful in 337 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 4: our journey and my personal journey too. So common questions 338 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 4: You've asked a lot of them of what does this 339 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 4: look like? How often do you visit? What does she 340 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 4: call you? But I think another one is, you know, 341 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 4: navigating boundaries and conflict and open adoption, because it's not 342 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 4: always easy. It's an adoptioned relationship is just like any 343 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 4: other relationship that takes work and effort. And you know, 344 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 4: through the years, her parents and I have worked through 345 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 4: to navigate, you know, wanting to honor each other. Yet 346 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 4: they are her parents and I respect that, and they 347 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 4: also respect that I'm her birth mom, and we both 348 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 4: come together knowing that there's things that we can provide 349 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,959 Speaker 4: and speak to into her life that the other can't, 350 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 4: and within that there can still be conversations that we've 351 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 4: had to have, especially as I've shared my story more 352 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 4: publicly and making sure that I'm sharing things that are 353 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 4: still respectful of their privacy, and especially as she was 354 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 4: under eighteen, navigating what's okay to share, what photos are 355 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 4: a kay to share? And if there was ever real 356 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 4: line that was crossed, whatever that was that they gently 357 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 4: came to me and said, hey, you know, we're noticing this. 358 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 4: Can we do this differently next time? And they modeled 359 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,119 Speaker 4: healthy communication for me and what that can look like. 360 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 4: And I think since open adoption can be very intimidating 361 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 4: or scary when you are just beginning the process of adopting, 362 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 4: that there's still a lot of fears in this and 363 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 4: being able to understand that boundaries are a good thing, 364 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 4: and that open adoption is not co parenting, it's you know, 365 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 4: you're still the parents, that you have an open heart 366 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 4: and a bridge to those connections, to those answers that 367 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 4: are part of their life too, and being able to 368 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 4: advocate and work through that together. 369 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 3: Tell me about your own children, your children that you 370 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 3: parent as you say, you said you have five? 371 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 4: I do I have five? 372 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 2: Wow? All right, go ahead. Yeah. 373 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 4: So I had another unexpected pregnancy in my college years 374 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,719 Speaker 4: and had thankfully a wonderful man by my side at 375 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 4: that point, and we got married nineteen twenty and so 376 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 4: that daughter is now eighteen, and then our youngest is eight. 377 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 5: This is. 378 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 2: A story of bounty. 379 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 3: You know, so many women have so much trouble getting 380 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 3: pregnant and you just keep having babies. And you know what, 381 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 3: God bless you for loving these babies no matter what 382 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 3: the relationship is, no matter whether they were planned or not. 383 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 3: You know, I have so many friends that they're seemingly 384 00:20:58,880 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 3: the youngest. 385 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 2: Wow, this has happened with my generation. 386 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,360 Speaker 3: But they're the youngest and they had, you know, their 387 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 3: next in the order is you know, ten fifteen years 388 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 3: ahead of them, and they call themselves oopsie babies, and 389 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,719 Speaker 3: yet they're smailed rotten because by that time, the parents 390 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 3: have you know, raised all these other kids and then 391 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:17,959 Speaker 3: here comes the kid that they didn't expect and they 392 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 3: didn't think mom could get pregnant anymore, but she did. 393 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 4: Yep, we were definitely been wasn't our plan to have five, 394 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 4: but we're definitely still very fortunate for these children that 395 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 4: God's given us. And having worked I work with adopted 396 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 4: parents every day and they struggle with fertility, and so 397 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 4: I especially realized the just the humbling gifts that it 398 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 4: is that I was able to. 399 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 3: I think that's absolutely right. And I think that you 400 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 3: have been, as most true faithful Christians are, you have 401 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 3: been open to God's direction in your life that may 402 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:08,120 Speaker 3: not have seemed like the perfect journey or the perfect film, 403 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 3: But somehow, with enough love and care and hard work 404 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 3: and you know, plenty of tears, you get there. And 405 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 3: I see these journeys you know, somewhere down the road, 406 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 3: and you do. 407 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 2: You just get there. 408 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 3: You figure out how to make it work, and it's 409 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 3: not always easy, but at the end of it all, 410 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 3: you're delighted that you did, Leah before we let you go. 411 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 3: Are there any other resources you would recommend for folks 412 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 3: who are going through some aspect of all of this. 413 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 4: One would be that I have a book if you're 414 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 4: curious about more of the details of what it's on, 415 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 4: the emotions of the experiences and in the hospital experience, 416 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,880 Speaker 4: and how her parents and my support system important being 417 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 4: loved me through the years, and also just what it 418 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 4: looks like up until she was eighteen. So have a 419 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:05,880 Speaker 4: nonprofit called the Ampersan Initiatives, and that is our post 420 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 4: placement resource to help not just birth parents, but also 421 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 4: adoptive parents and adoptees and kinship care foster care to 422 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 4: have retreats that are in a really safe, beautiful environment 423 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 4: and having fun, because you know, cultivating community and healing 424 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 4: can be a lot of heavy, you know, peers and 425 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 4: hard work, but it also you know, there's a lot 426 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 4: of healing that comes with joy, laughter, and you know, 427 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 4: being in beautiful places. So we have that as well, 428 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 4: and we have educational topics online that will help with 429 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 4: adoptive parents or just anybody involved that wants to learn 430 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 4: more about from a birth mom and just other people 431 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 4: in the adoption community. And then her Plan of course 432 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 4: is a great resource that someone is struggling with an 433 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 4: unexpected pregnancy and needs resources that they can guide you 434 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 4: national wide to to find those support networks near you. 435 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 3: God bless you, Leah Alton. Thank you for sharing your story. 436 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:09,959 Speaker 3: You just never know who'll hear it and it'll make 437 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 3: a difference for them. I appreciate you. 438 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 2: I looked at him, and they looked at me, you know, 439 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 2: and I just looked at her and I have to 440 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 2: just get yourself and get out that Michael Verysho I 441 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 2: read over. 442 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,479 Speaker 3: And got a newspaper and I wrote it up. 443 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 2: I slapped him on the nose that. 444 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 3: Our great annual tradition on our Thanksgiving edition, which is 445 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 3: the Friday before the following Thursday, is to play Rush 446 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 3: Limbaugh's The Meaning of Thanksgiving in honor of the Great, 447 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 3: the irreplaceable Rush Limbaugh. 448 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 5: The true story of Thanksgiving, The story of the Pilgrims 449 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 5: begins in the early part of the seventeenth century. The 450 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,360 Speaker 5: Church of England, under King James the First was persecuting 451 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 5: anyone and everyone who did not recognize its absolute civil 452 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 5: and spiritual authority. Those who challenged ecclesiastical authority and those 453 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 5: who believed strongly in freedom of worship were hunted down, imprisoned, 454 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 5: and sometimes executed. 455 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 2: For their beliefs. A group of separatists. 456 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 5: First fled to Holland and established a community. After eleven years, 457 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 5: about forty of them agreed to make a perilous journey 458 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,360 Speaker 5: to the New World, where they would certainly face hardships, 459 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 5: but could live and worship God according to the. 460 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 2: Dictates of their own consciences. 461 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 5: On August first, sixteen to twenty, the Mayflowers set sail. 462 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 5: It carried a total of one hundred two passengers, including 463 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 5: forty Pilgrims, led by William Bradford. On the journey, Bradford 464 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 5: set up an agreement a contract the established just and 465 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,959 Speaker 5: equal laws for all members of the new community, irrespective 466 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 5: of their religious beliefs. Where did the revolutionary ideas expressed 467 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 5: in an eight flower compact come from? 468 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 2: They came from the Bible. 469 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 5: The Pilgrims were a people completely steeped in the lessons 470 00:25:58,640 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 5: of the old. 471 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 2: And newteil estimates. 472 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 5: They looked to the ancient Israelites for their example, and 473 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 5: because of the biblical precedent set forth in scripture, they 474 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 5: never doubted that their experiment would work. 475 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 2: But it was no pleasure cruise. 476 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 5: The journey to the New World was a long and 477 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 5: arduous one, and when the Pilgrims landed in New England 478 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 5: in November, they found, according to Bradford's detailed journal, a cold, barren, 479 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 5: desolate wilderness. There were no friends to greet them, he wrote, 480 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 5: There were no houses to shelter them. There were no 481 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 5: inns where they could refresh themselves in The sacrifice that 482 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 5: they had made for freedom was just beginning. During the 483 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 5: first winter, half the Pilgrims, including Bradford's own wife, died 484 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 5: neither starvation, sickness. 485 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 2: Or exposure. 486 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 5: When spring finally came, Indians taught the settlers how to 487 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 5: plant corn fish for cod and skim beavers for coats. 488 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 5: Life improved for the Pilgrims, but they did not yet 489 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 5: prosper and this is important to understand because this is 490 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:04,439 Speaker 5: where modern American history lessons often end. Thanksgiving is actually 491 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 5: explained in some textbooks as a holiday for which the 492 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 5: Pilgrims gave thanks to the Indians for saving their lives, 493 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 5: rather than as a devout expression of gratitude grounded in 494 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 5: the tradition of both the Old and New Testaments. 495 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 2: Here's the part that's been omitted. 496 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,640 Speaker 5: The original contract the Pilgrims had entered into with their 497 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 5: merchant sponsors in London called for everything they produced to 498 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 5: go into a common store, and each member of the 499 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 5: community was entitled a one common share. All of the 500 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 5: land that they cleared and the houses they built belonged 501 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 5: to the community as well, and they were going to 502 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 5: distribute it equally. All the land they cleared, the houses 503 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 5: they built belonged to the community. Nobody owned anything, they 504 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,719 Speaker 5: just had a share in it. It was a commune. 505 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 5: It was the forerunner to the communes we saw in 506 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 5: the sixties and seventies out in California. And it was 507 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 5: a complete with organic vegetables, even just like the communes. 508 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 2: Of today are. 509 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:06,680 Speaker 5: God No, there's no question, it was organic vegetables. Bradford, 510 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 5: who had become a new governor of the colony, recognized 511 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 5: that this form of collectivism was as costly and destructive 512 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 5: to the Pilgrims as that first harsh winter which had 513 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 5: taken so many lives. 514 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 2: He decided to take bold action. 515 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 5: Bradford assigned a plot of land in each family to 516 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 5: work and manage, thus turning loose to power in the marketplace. 517 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,479 Speaker 5: Long before Karl Marx was even born, the Pilgrims had 518 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 5: discovered and experimented with what could only be described as socialism, 519 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 5: and what happened. It didn't work, but nearly starved, never 520 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 5: has worked. What Bradford in his community found was that 521 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 5: the most creative and industrious people had no incentive to 522 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 5: work any harder than anybody else unless they could utilize 523 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 5: the power of personal motivation. 524 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 2: But while most of the rest of the world has. 525 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 5: Been experimenting with socialism for well over one hundred years, 526 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 5: trying to refine it, perfect it, and reinvent it, the 527 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 5: Pilgrims decided early on to scrap it permanently. What Bradford 528 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 5: wrote about this social experiment should be in every school 529 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 5: child's history lesson if it were, we might prevent such 530 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 5: needless suffering in the future, such as that we are 531 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 5: enduring now. The experience that we had in this common 532 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 5: course and condition, This is Bradford, the experience we had 533 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 5: in this common course and condition, tired or tried Sunday years, 534 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 5: that by taking away property and bringing community into a 535 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,479 Speaker 5: commonwealth would make them happy and flourishing, as if they 536 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 5: were wiser than God. Bradford wrote, for this community, so 537 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 5: far as it was was found to breed much confusion 538 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,719 Speaker 5: and discontent, and retard much employment that would have been 539 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 5: to their benefit and comfort. For young men that were 540 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 5: most able and fit for labor and service, did repine 541 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 5: that they should spend their time and strength to work 542 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 5: for other men's wives and children without being paid for. 543 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 2: It was thought injustice. 544 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 5: Why should you work for other people when you can't 545 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 5: work for yourself? 546 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 2: What's the point, That's what he was saying. 547 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 5: The Pilgrims found that people could not be expected to 548 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 5: do their best work without incentive. So what did Bradford's 549 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 5: community try next? They unharnished the power of good old 550 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 5: free enterprise by invoking the undergirding capitalistic principle of private 551 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 5: property every family was assigned its own plot of land 552 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 5: to work, and permitted to market its own crops and products. 553 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 5: What was the result, Bradford wrote, this had very good success, 554 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 5: for it made all hands industrious, so as much more 555 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 5: corn was planted than otherwise would have been. 556 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 2: Is it possible that supply side economics could have existed 557 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 2: before the nineteen eighties. 558 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 4: Yes. 559 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 5: Read the story of Joseph and Pharaoh in Genesis forty one. 560 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 5: Following Joseph's suggestion, Pharaoh reduced the tax on Egyptians to 561 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 5: twenty percent during the seven years of plenty, and the 562 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 5: earth brought forth in heaps well. At no time the 563 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 5: pilgrims found that they had more food than they could 564 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 5: eat themselves. Now this this is where it gets really 565 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 5: good if you're laboring under the misconception that I was 566 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 5: as I was taught in school. They set up trading posts, 567 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 5: they exchanged goods with the Indians. The prophits allowed them 568 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 5: to pay off their debts to the merchants in London, 569 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 5: and the success and the prosperity of the Plymouth settlement 570 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 5: attracted more Europeans and began what came to be known 571 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 5: as the Great Puritan Migration. But this story stops when 572 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 5: the Indians taught the newly arrived suffering in socialism pilgrims 573 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 5: how to plant corn and fish for cod. That's where 574 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 5: the original thankshaving story stops. Story basically doesn't even begin there. 575 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 5: The real story of Thanksgiving is William Bradford giving thanks 576 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 5: to God for the guidance and the inspiration to set 577 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 5: up a thriving columny that socialism caused near starvation. 578 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 2: The bounty was shared with the Indians. 579 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 5: They did sit down, they did have free range turkey 580 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 5: and organic vegetables. But it wasn't the Indians who saved 581 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 5: the day. It was capitalism and scripture which saved the day, 582 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 5: as acknowledged by George Washington in his first Thanksgiving Proclamation 583 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 5: in seventeen eighty nine.