WEBVTT - How Are Kurdistan’s Freedom Guerrillas Shooting Down Drones? 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:04.920 Also media. 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:08.280 Hi everyone, it's me James, just introducing this podcast. I'm 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:12.000 recording this the day after we recorded the episode to 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:15.159 today's Thursday, the twenty first of March. I wanted to 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:17.320 just update a couple of things and correct a couple 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:19.040 of things, so I've just listened through the episodes. 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:20.000 I'm going to do that now. 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:23.120 Firstly, I think I said Igler a couple of times 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:27.040 when I meant strella. It's the Strella portable surface to 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:30.600 our missiles have been refitted with new batteries in the 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.720 Syrian Civil Wars specifically, and I've included a link to 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:37.040 a document about that in the show notes. So apologies 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:39.720 for getting those two things confused. They're both I guess 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:43.320 former Soviet service to our missile systems. The other things 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:47.040 I wanted to mention are that a few like throughout 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:51.000 this episode, we've used manpads, right. That's kind of the 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:56.800 colloquial term or the official term really for person portable 0:00:56.880 --> 0:01:01.040 anti aircraft systems, like it obviously doesn't mean that you 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:03.560 have to be a man to use one, certainly like 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:06.360 the fact that the hPG are using them and that 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:09.600 the Kurdish Freedom Movement are using them, obviously women can 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:11.720 use them, non binary folks can use them, to everyone 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:15.039 can use them. And finally, I just wanted to mention 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:19.040 that there have been some suggestions that the thing that 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:21.399 was used to shoot down the bay Ragtars was like 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:24.720 loitering munition, which is something that is often called a 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:27.400 suicide drone. In this case, it's not a loitering munition 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:29.920 that impacts something on the ground, but impact something on 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:33.679 the air. There's an Iranian system that does that, but 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:36.880 apparently it's possible to replicate that with a large number 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:40.000 of off the shelf or sort of commercially available pieces. 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:41.160 So maybe that's what's going on. 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:43.960 This episode was a little bit speculative, and we still 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:46.280 don't have lots of hard answers, but we hope you'll 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:49.200 enjoy it because it represents a change in a relationship 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:51.080 between the state and people who are not the state, 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:52.280 and that's why it's important. 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:53.640 Okay, hope you enjoy. 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:57.800 Hello, podcast fans, Welcome back to the podcast. I'm joined 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:01.760 today by my friend Mia Himea. Hello, and we are 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:05.240 talking about, of course, surface to wear missiles, a topic 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:07.560 that I'm sure is on the top of mind for 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:09.880 all of you as you drive to work this morning. 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:12.880 Where are we talking about surface to air missiles today? Well? 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:17.520 Today is it is Wednesday, the twentieth of March, and 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:20.040 today I'm sure maybe some of you would have seen 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:21.880 some of the most of you probably will not as 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:23.120 you go about your daily lives. 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:25.400 That the k c K. 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:29.720 The k c K is the group, the Kurdistan Communities Union, 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.480 the joint group between the various groups in the different 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:36.640 parts of Kurdistan. Right, So you have the PKK, You 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:42.360 have they in Syria, p KK in Turkey, right, the 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:46.280 p JACK in Iran. In the KK like brings all 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:47.200 these groups together? 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:48.000 Do they? 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:48.880 Is there a name? 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:49.320 Do they? 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:51.600 Is there like an Iraqi branch? That's the one that 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:56.559 I don't know. You have the yevishe the Azdi group? Right, yeah, 0:02:57.200 --> 0:02:57.760 Kurdish one. 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:02.560 I think everyone I will reconsider my statement. The people 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:06.160 who I have become aware of who are in Iraq, 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:13.160 who are who I know about journalistically, are Ksek people. Okay, 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:18.359 little little bit of smoke and mirrors feed there, but yeah, 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:20.720 the people, the people who who I know who are 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:28.080 in the Kurdistan Autonomous Region are Ksek. So I think 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:31.400 that I think most of the sort of people within 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:33.440 the Greater like Kurdish Freedom Movement. 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:36.000 The Apoche people are KCK within Iraq. 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:40.520 It is in the Kurdistan Autonomous Region, so like Iraqi 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:43.040 in a technical sense, but only only really in a 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:45.640 technical sense, Like when you go to the Kurdistan Autonomous Region, 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:49.240 you don't even do Iraqi immigration. You do Kurdistyan immigration, 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:51.560 which is nice because it's a lot easier. I was 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:57.000 there in October of twenty twenty three, and since February 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:00.600 of twenty twenty three, the KCK have an out. They 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:05.680 have shut down thirteen Turkish unmanned aerial vehicles, right, which 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:09.080 what you and I would call drones. And we're not 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:12.840 talking about drones like your friend has a drone and 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:15.680 they use it to film you at the beach drones. 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:20.680 We're talking about like bairaktar drones, which are it's an aircraft, right, 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:22.680 Like if you saw one, you would be like, oh, 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:23.520 there goes a plane. 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:26.360 Yeah, it's like it's it's like the Turkish version of 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:27.279 the Predator drones and. 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:30.240 The US users, Yeah, yeah, it's it's yeah, it's a 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:33.240 very similar thing. It's a very popular drone system actually, right, 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:37.360 they've sold bairaktars to. I think dozens of countries like 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:41.560 like they're I mean most all over, yeah, thirty one 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:45.000 countries that they've exported the bairaktar to, so they're very 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:48.039 widely used. They're kind of the the sort of drone 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:49.599 of choice for people who are just like buying on 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:53.200 the open market. Right. Karta uses them, Ukraine uses them 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:55.839 a lot, but even countries like I'm looking here Bikina 0:04:55.839 --> 0:05:01.680 Faso has has biraugtars So what's notable about this is 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:03.880 they've also shot down a Kinchi's a kinchiese are like 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:08.440 the newer bairakta variant that they make a slightly different noise. 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:11.239 I've spent some time in places that are being attacked 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:14.000 by drones over the last year, and it's it's. 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:15.320 A highly unpleasant experience. 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:19.160 But people who are used to this, which I am, 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:21.320 I guess thankfully not, will tell you that they can 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:24.000 tell the difference the noise at least these drones to make. 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:26.640 But there was a kinchi, for instance, I believe it 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:30.040 was in a kinchi that did some of the attacks 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:33.240 that I was unfortunate enough to be nearby when I 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:37.760 was in ro In October. So what's notable about this 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:41.320 is like the k c K obviously, like they're a 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:45.039 non state actor, right because there is not a Kurdish state. 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:48.280 There is a Kurdish nation, one might argue, but it's 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:53.960 split between four states Iraq, Iran, Syria, and Turkey, and 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:59.719 so them being able to shoot down droned it's quite 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:00.440 remind uckable. 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:04.480 Yeah, no, one's none of the non state actors really 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:06.320 in the last like twenty years have been able to 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:08.839 do this. Like like everyone talks about how advanced like 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:12.560 isis's capabilities were for a non state actor, and they were, 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:18.279 but they couldn't do it, Like it's wild, No, like who. 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:20.160 These have shut down some reaper drones. 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:23.719 Yeah, but but they're but they're a state, Like that's 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.360 the thing, Like they'd have huge swaths of the regular 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:28.560 you many military are just like. 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:32.680 Yeah, and then they're supplied by other state actors, right, 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:36.200 like very clearly as it's a little different. What, Yeah, 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:39.920 it's this is relatively remarkable, right that they've been able 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:42.760 to shoot down like and not just it's not just 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:44.960 like oh we got lucky, we got we got lucky 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:48.880 and dropped a single drone. ISIS had if I remember correctly, 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:54.480 Isis had some Igla manpads, like the old Russian man pads. 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:56.560 The thing with those and we're going to talk about 0:06:56.560 --> 0:07:00.840 this a little bit later. They they have like a 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.359 battery and that battery will run out over a certain 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:05.640 or they're sold that. Some of them are just being 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:08.240 sold on the black market without batteries. From what I've seen, 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:11.760 some folks in that we've seen in the civil war 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.760 in Syria have worked out how to somehow make that 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:18.240 battery work with or make another battery, or make another 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:21.560 electronic system for them. They don't have like a lockout, right, 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:24.120 they don't have a like we've detected, you know, like 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:26.720 your iPhone will sometimes get mad if you're using a 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:27.840 third party charger. 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:29.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:32.560 So Tim Apples was not involved in the design of 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:36.760 the NK thelia Igler more so pity and so he 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:40.040 wasn't able to engineer it a third party luckout. But 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:44.440 those have been repurposed. But yeah, we did not see 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:48.520 the Islamic state of Irak and El Sham dropping US drones. 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:52.760 In fact, the reason like the thing that are allowed, 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:55.480 there are two things that allowed the defeat of the 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:58.640 so called Islamic state rate one, the heroism of the 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:02.560 people who fought against them, be they like I Rocky Kurdish, 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:03.880 you know, a lot of people for the against have 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:07.240 fifteen thousand kurt died fighting isis But also the fact 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:11.320 that the US had complete air dominance and could just 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:14.600 fucking obliterate things from the sky whenever it wanted to. 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:17.560 It did, it did a lot of It did a 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.480 lot of obliterating things from the sky, right, And so 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:24.960 the ability to shoot down drones is something that has 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:28.080 been very hard for non state actors. And it's not 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:31.000 like it's not like the k c K has a 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:32.760 state sponsor, right yeah. 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:34.800 Yeah. Also so like like for example, like hesbal Lah 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:37.720 has shot down to although these weren't actually they shut 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:40.880 down to Hermes like it is really hermis drones. So 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:43.079 though those are just sort of those are surveillance things. 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:45.959 But the thing is like Hezbola did this by getting 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:49.680 surface there missles, like getting surface their rockets from Iran. 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:51.120 Yeah sure, yeah, that's right. 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:54.199 That's like, you know, the way that you can do 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:58.240 this is if either like Iran, the US, I guess 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:01.800 technically China and or and or Russia like hand you 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:04.559 them but if none of those four countries are willing 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.760 to play ball or I mean I guessically the UK, yes, 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:10.839 or like France could send you one, but like it's 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:14.720 it's it's really really like I don't. I don't think 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:18.559 any non state actor who wasn't being just directly armed 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:20.160 by one of those states has pulled it off. 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:25.520 No. The other non state actor who I've seen with 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:30.280 manpads very recently are the Koren, the current national liberal 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:32.640 k in l A. The k and LA have been 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:36.040 putting out these pictures. This is in me and mar Yes, 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:38.160 this is in Mema. So for folks who haven't listened 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:40.840 to our previous Meama episodes, go and listen to them. 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:43.160 But yeah, there's some of the work I'm proud of. 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:47.079 But these k and LA guys have these photos have 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:49.640 come out that then they're not not post photos, right. 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:52.839 They they very clearly they wanted these photos to come 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:56.480 out and it shows them with these manpad system. I'm 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.960 actually not sure if it's a strella or a Chinese 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:02.240 I think it's called the eighth N five the Chinese. 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:06.160 It's essentially the same thing, but they have the grip 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:08.000 stock for them, but they don't have the coolant ball 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:09.960 and the battery at the front, so like that they're 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:14.200 what they have is a fancy looking doesn't appear to 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:18.480 my eyes to be like fully functional, like in terms 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:22.440 of tracking and shooting down an aeroplane. Although I have 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:30.960 seen footage from friends of Hunter aircraft deploying like flares 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:35.520 over a current state and then like turning around and leaving, 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:40.120 So perhaps there's something I'm missing here, Like, it's entirely 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:42.360 possible that when they decided for these photos come out, 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:45.400 they they're in a certain fashion. And like those guys 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:48.080 who engineered and tire arms industry of their own using 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:51.840 Reddit and Ali express, like I, if anybody can make 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:53.680 something work, they can make something work. 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:56.160 I have great faith in their ingenuity. 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:58.600 And as I said, like it's people in Syria have 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:01.840 previously made systems like this work. They're not they don't 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:04.200 have that lockout, so it's quite possible that they did. 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:09.200 But I've not seen a video of anyone in Mianmar 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:14.240 shooting down and any kind of aircraft yet. Right the 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:19.120 Russian aircraft that they have shot down aircraft allegedly someone 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:22.920 shot one down with with a like a grenade launcher, 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:26.960 a single shot grenade launcher solid video, Yeah, which one 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:30.160 of the most chadly things anyone's ever done. It's it's 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.280 some like modern warfare or whatever whatever. The computer game 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:37.800 is called Battlefield, that's what it's called. Yeah, talking of 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:42.120 talking of Chadley and exciting stuff. This might be an 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:44.560 advert for like being a prison guard or something exciting 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:47.840 that we have to to introduce. Now, okay, don't don't 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:48.679 be a prison guard? 0:11:59.400 --> 0:11:59.719 All right? 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.040 Back, have you found gain from employment elsewhere outside of 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:06.880 the cast real system? And we're talking about surface to 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:10.920 our missiles, particularly these thirteen surface to our missile of 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:15.880 thirteen drones that the casey K have shut down, right, 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:18.160 One thing I thought that was noticeable is that they 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:21.520 did say missiles they are people were able to pride 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:25.880 the missile system necessary that So like there's a theory 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:30.160 that I've seen that that they were able to crash 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.760 a drone of their own into into a bayractar like 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:37.199 a kind of like I guess, like a suicide. I 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:38.880 don't like the word suicide drone because it's not the 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.520 drone that's dying. Like normally when people talk about suicide drones, 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:42.320 they're killing people. 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:49.320 Yeah, but like a ramming drone. Yeah yeah, yeah, like 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:54.200 a like a it's like robot Wars. But they said 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:55.040 missile on their press. 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:56.680 Really, so you know, if we take that on the 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:00.120 if we take that on the face of it, that 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.240 that suggests that they shut them down. Certainly this like 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:06.680 there is good video evidence of the mirror and I 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:10.160 just reviewed the video. Incredible soundtrack. We'll link to it 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:13.280 in the We'll link to it in the show notes. 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:17.880 In the videos, you very clearly see Oh it's a drone. 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:21.640 Oh it's a huge explosion that gravity is now having 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:24.560 its effect on this drone, like it is plummeting to earth. 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:29.000 Yeah, like it's it's definitely not a like we've fired 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:31.319 a machine gun in the air and it hit it 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:35.840 somehow or something like. It's right, it got hit quite explosive. Yeah, yeah, 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:37.720 that's remarkable. 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:38.640 Yeah. 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:40.760 One of the there was a shooting down of an 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:43.040 aircraft in them. It wasn't one of them makes I 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:44.760 forgot it might have been. It was a two seater 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:46.760 training plate. I can't remember quite what it was, but 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:49.680 that was shot down supposedly by small arms fire or 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:53.000 maybe like a generally the like the air defense of 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:55.920 most non state arm groups has been dushcuts right, like 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:58.400 a it's a thing that you've seen in the back 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:02.199 of a pickup truck going like bang ban bang, with 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:06.360 a big sort of spade grip. It's a classic technical gun. 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:09.880 But this isn't that, Like, this is something very different, 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:13.040 something they're they're exploding when these drones get hit, they're exploding. 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:16.960 And they've all been in I think, oh yeah, all 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:21.400 of them are in areas of the what we call 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:24.760 the Kurdistan Autonomous Region. A bit of rock, right, So 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:27.320 some of them are in zap which is near to 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:31.760 Hok but towards north of there. Some of them in 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:36.240 the Kandil Mountains, which is part of the Zagros Mountain Range. 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:41.240 Again it's it's in the north of that Kurdistan Autonomous Region, 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:43.720 and I think some of them are in it. I 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:46.800 think it's Gabay, it's pronounced, but they're not in like 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:49.360 I think obviously, when a lot of people think about 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:53.720 the Kurdistan Freedom Movement, they think about Rajava. This isn't there. 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:56.760 The US did shoot down a by rakta or in 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:01.080 a Kinchi over Rajava while I was there, but they 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:02.880 only shot it down because it flew over their base. 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:07.160 They continued to let the bay Raktars bomb civilian infrastructure 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:11.720 all over the A and E S. So these these 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.400 are not there, these are so perhaps whatever they're using 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:17.280 so interesting, right, Like it's maybe it's not something they 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:21.280 can take there, or maybe it's not you know, like 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:23.200 it's not they're not able to get it out of 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:23.680 the mountains. 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:24.680 It's too much of a risk. 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:30.640 No, it's it's interesting, I mean for a number of reasons. Well, yeah, 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:32.640 partially that they're not using it in serior. Partially they're 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:35.560 also they don't seem to be using them in Turkey either. 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:41.040 No, it's interesting when they take off, it's not that 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.520 like subtle, right, it's a big aircraft, so they'll get 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:45.600 some warning when they take off and that would allow them, 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:47.680 I guess, to prepare their munitions. But yeah, they don't 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.440 seem to be using it. They seem to be using 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:54.760 it in like this this area. Whether they're very strong, right, 0:15:54.760 --> 0:16:00.360 whether these mountains are extremely fortified, they've been fighting Turkey. 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.640 There are a lot in recent days and weeks. You 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:05.720 can always i mean, obviously you're going to see some 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:08.760 somewhat traumatic combat footage, but Garrilla TV always has like 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:10.600 updates on these things. So that's the sort of thing 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:13.840 that you you know, like to keep up to date with. 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:17.040 But yeah, they're not using them there, they're not using them. 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:21.000 They're they're very close to Turkey, right, but yeah, not 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:24.640 not quite in and Turkey soldiers do occupy some areas 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:30.280 inside the Iraqi curts Down Autonomous Region, so like they 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:33.960 it's kind of all and Turkey seems to be kind 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:37.320 of trying to ramp up its operations against the Courts 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:40.560 Down Freedom movement inside the Curtis Donal Autonomous Region, but 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.280 this is a significant impediment to that. 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:43.520 Right. 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.640 It's also very interesting that like we have not heard 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:49.960 shit about this from Turkey. 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:52.320 No, Yeah, well, and I think I think part of 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:54.560 this is you know, like I think it's something that 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:57.520 as an indication of how serious this is, because I mean, 0:16:57.760 --> 0:16:59.680 this has been you know, the law of the twenty 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:02.720 first century is that if you're a state actor, you 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:06.200 have unlimited air superiority over any non state group you're bombing, 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.679 and you can, you know, especially especially if you're like 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:12.119 the US, you can send bombers or drones into like 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:14.800 any country you want and you can bomb them. Yeah, 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.879 and that has been true, and this has been the 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:21.120 basis of US military power. It's also been the basis 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:23.200 of a lot of like, you know, the Turkey obviously 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.040 doesn't have the same air doctrine as the US does, 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:26.880 but like that's been the basis of a lot of 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:30.320 Turkish operations that they like, they're the people who have 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:33.480 airpower on because they have airpower, because they have drones, 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:35.080 because you can't shoot back at them, they can do 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:36.480 whatever the fuck they want. 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:41.640 Yeah, Like I've been in the situation where you are 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:46.840 completely powerless and very afraid because at some point something 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:48.280 could fall out the night sky and kill you and 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:50.960 there's fuck all you can do about it. And yeah, yeah, 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:56.160 that has been the way of the world, like you say, 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:59.960 for this entire century. Right, it's what we've seen. I mean, meanma, 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:03.200 the pro democracy forces are gaining ground every day. They're 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:06.680 doing an incredible job. But like I've also talked to 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:08.720 people whose whole unit has been wiped out and they've 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:11.080 hidden under the dead bodies of their friends because as 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:15.040 a plane or a helicopter circling around, and it's the 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:18.560 one area where they've really struggled to defend themselves, right, 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:21.560 And it's I'm writing a book about anarchist at War. 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:25.960 Eventually I will publish that book. But this is the 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:30.040 thing that defines like the benit like the state. Even 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:33.040 when the state like loses its monopoly on legitimate violence, 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:39.320 it still has monopoly on airborne violence. And the questioning 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:44.080 that monopoly, like is is incredibly dangerous for the state's 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:48.239 ability to for the state, I guess in general, like 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:53.920 for its continued ability to crush movements, be they liberatory 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:54.880 or be they otherwise. 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:58.639 Right, we can know, I mean, this is something I 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:01.960 think is really interesting. This is something that's been a 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:06.240 fear of I mean everyone from like Western intelligence people 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:08.760 through like I mean you can see people in like 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:12.320 Hollywood freaking out about this, Like like rebel group gets 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:14.600 access to a manpad is like one of the most 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:18.879 common like spy show plots. Yeah, and yeah, it's like 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.600 it's something that you know, you can listen to, like 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:23.720 the US military talking about this. Is this is something 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:26.800 that they're really concerned about. 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.880 Yeah, they won't sub like it's their where it's where 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:33.800 they draw the line with the groups who are quote 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:36.320 unquote allies, right, who'll be quote Like the US will 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:38.040 tell you that the SDF for their allies in the 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:40.240 fight against ISIS. But they're willing to let their allies 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:43.840 die rather than give them manpads. Right, Like, I've seen this. 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:44.720 I have. 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:48.240 I've seen the funerals, you know, because they and the US. 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:50.760 But I've also driven right past the fucking US base 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:52.960 and I know that there are plenty of malny of 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:55.680 plenty of anti aircraft systems there because they shut down 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:56.960 a Turkish drone. 0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:57.320 While I was there. 0:19:57.320 --> 0:19:59.119 But they're not willing to give them to even the 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:02.080 people who they'll fight side by side with because their 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:06.040 fear of having manpads get into what they would maybe 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:10.040 term the wrong hands is is. Yeah, it's like the 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:15.280 the one area where they have I guess, complete domination. 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:15.640 Right. 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:19.399 They've given them to Ukraine, of course, but despite like 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:22.520 repeated allegations, there is no evidence that Ukraine has sold 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:26.479 surface to wear systems anywhere, and they obviously weren't give 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:30.639 them to me Anmar, right, So it's yeah, if this 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:32.880 is what it appears to be, then it's a really 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:37.520 massive change. Talking of a massive change, you could you know, 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:40.240 you can make a massive change to your financial situation 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:42.000 by purchasing gold. 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:55.199 We're back, Yeah, I. 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:57.919 Think something that's really interesting about the way that the 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:00.879 sort of man pad getting to know and say to actors. 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:01.600 Has talked about is that. 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:07.400 Usually the way that it's like usually the US line 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:09.199 on it is like we cant like we can't let 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:10.879 anyone get these us They're gonna use it to shoot 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:14.720 down civilian airliners. Yes, yeah, And now, to be fair, 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:18.760 people do accidentally shoot down like militaries accidentally shoot down 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:21.440 civilian airliners all the time. Yeah, Like that's a very 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:24.280 common thing. But I think I think that's that's a 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:28.400 smoke screed, right, because like even like the actual thing 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:30.760