Speaker 1: Hey, you're welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh. There's Chuck,
Speaker 1: just Josh and Chuck. No, Jerry's short stuff. Go. New
Speaker 1: York Times crossword puzzle stumps Americans. That was a good one.
Speaker 1: Mid Atlantic accent is what they call that. Yeah, we're
Speaker 1: talking about the New York Times Daily Crossword. A crossword
Speaker 1: puzzle I have never attempted to do in my life,
Speaker 1: but it is a part of the fabric of America.
Speaker 1: And there's a great documentary that I have have not seen
Speaker 1: yet that I want to see about this. I think
Speaker 1: it's about all crosswords. Yeah, I want to see that.
Speaker 1: It's called word Play. Yeah, that's the one. Yeah. Sure.
Speaker 1: Jon Stewart's in it. He's a crossword fanatic, did you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of people I know are crossword fanatics. Kim Jennings,
Speaker 1: of course, as you would imagine, is quite good at
Speaker 1: the New York Times Crossword A little on the nose
Speaker 1: if you ask me, Yeah, what is that guy not
Speaker 1: good at? Right? Um, podcasting, he's good at that. He's
Speaker 1: good at everything, good at talking to strangers the time
Speaker 1: that I met him. Sure. Anyway, So one of the
Speaker 1: people who's in that documentary Chuck is Will Shorts, and
Speaker 1: Will Shorts has kind of become a legendary figure in
Speaker 1: the crossword community and even beyond, frankly, because he is
Speaker 1: just a straight up, interesting, neat kind of Um. I
Speaker 1: want to say comforting, and it doesn't feel like the
Speaker 1: right word, And when I'm describing a crossroad puzzle editor,
Speaker 1: I feel like I should have exactly the right word,
Speaker 1: but comforting still works. He's just a cool dude. But
Speaker 1: he is the current editor of the New York Times
Speaker 1: crossword Puzzle, and he has basically taken it and catapulted
Speaker 1: it into international fame. It's like the crossword Puzzle thanks
Speaker 1: in large part to his efforts. Yeah, if you want
Speaker 1: to go back in time, though, it's pretty interesting in
Speaker 1: that The New York Times was the very last major
Speaker 1: daily metropolitan newspay for in the United States to start
Speaker 1: a crossword puzzle. They were really popular all over the country, uh,
Speaker 1: starting in about nine and The New York Times even
Speaker 1: came out and was like, you know what, here's a
Speaker 1: quote for you, the latest of the problems presented for
Speaker 1: solution by psychologists interested in the mental peculiarities of mobs
Speaker 1: and crowds. That's what a crossword is going to do
Speaker 1: for you? No idea what they meant by that one. Well,
Speaker 1: they were just saying it's sort of base, uh, entertainment
Speaker 1: and knowledge. I think I'm gonna have to go back
Speaker 1: and reread it. That's fine, but I'll take it. I'll
Speaker 1: take it on space. You know what I'm reminded of
Speaker 1: now when I think of crossroad puzzles as Rupert Sheldrake's
Speaker 1: theory that crossroad puzzles get easier to solve as the
Speaker 1: day goes on because of everybody's collective consciousness. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: sure that's the case. So it is pretty surprising that
Speaker 1: The New York Times pooh pooed crosswords as fooi for
Speaker 1: twenty years easily by almost twenty years, um, maybe fifteen,
Speaker 1: So that crossword craze starts in the New York Times
Speaker 1: didn't finally published one until the beginning of World War One. No,
Speaker 1: I think it was probably World War two. What did
Speaker 1: I say? He said? World War one? Yeah, so the
Speaker 1: New York Times went back in time to beat everybody.
Speaker 1: So sorry, it was World War two when they adopted it.
Speaker 1: So about fifteen years after the craze started, they held
Speaker 1: out and then finally, as the legend goes, the Times
Speaker 1: editor Arthur Sulzberger. Um. He he was tired of buying
Speaker 1: the New York Herald or note the Harold Tribune so
Speaker 1: that he could play their crossrood puzzle or do their
Speaker 1: crossrood puzzle. He wanted the Times to have its own,
Speaker 1: and he finally said, fine, we'll publish a cross world Yeah.
Speaker 1: I get the feeling. His name, his nickname was selzie
Speaker 1: m h. Yeah, Arthur Salzi Sulzberger. Yeah, it's the beginning
Speaker 1: of World War two. And basically the thought was, besides
Speaker 1: the fact that he wanted one, is that you know,
Speaker 1: all we're doing is talking about World War two. Maybe
Speaker 1: a crossword puzzle is finally a good idea to kind
Speaker 1: of get people's mind off of things. So you over there,
Speaker 1: miss Margaret Ferrar, why don't you be our very first
Speaker 1: crossword editor. Uh, because you have been editing all these books,
Speaker 1: crossword books that Simon and Schuster has been putting out
Speaker 1: since right, and to get everybody's minds off of it.
Speaker 1: By the way, make sure that the crossword puzzle answers
Speaker 1: and clues have to do with the news that are
Speaker 1: in that day's newspaper, which all happened to be about
Speaker 1: the war and the lead up to war. And so
Speaker 1: Ferrar was like, all right, you know what, I'm a
Speaker 1: crossword legend already. I'm going to I'm gonna make this
Speaker 1: one right. And she really did. She had like really
Speaker 1: really great crosswords that she edited. Um and she pushed
Speaker 1: back I think fairly quickly on that idea that it
Speaker 1: needed to reflect the day's news and said, you know what,
Speaker 1: I think it needs to do the opposite that I
Speaker 1: think we need to um get references from literature, from
Speaker 1: popular culture, from um, just about everything but the day's
Speaker 1: news so that people can use the crossword as an escape,
Speaker 1: and managed to establish the New York Times crossword is
Speaker 1: basically the preeminent crossword in the world. Yeah, and she did. Uh.
Speaker 1: She did this for twenty seven years, from forty two
Speaker 1: to sixty nine, which is a very long run, that's right.
Speaker 1: And it was a big, big hit, like he said.
Speaker 1: And then in nineteen sixty nine Mr will wang Uh
Speaker 1: succeeded her, and he I think was the head at
Speaker 1: the Metropolitan desk at the Times. Then he took over
Speaker 1: as crossword editor. He was a little bit more of
Speaker 1: a of an old fashioned newsy type, but he did
Speaker 1: love crosswords and he had been writing these crosswords for
Speaker 1: a long time for the Times, and they finally said,
Speaker 1: bring your great sets of humor over here and become
Speaker 1: the editor. Yeah he was apparently, like the Times, crosswords
Speaker 1: were never funnier than when will Wang was editor. Lots
Speaker 1: of pants dropping jokes, just super seventies stuff. You know,
Speaker 1: Ziggy made an appearance almost every day, and nothing's funnier
Speaker 1: than Ziggy. Right, So, um, Will Wang kind of had this,
Speaker 1: uh the paper under or the crossword under his wing
Speaker 1: for seven years, I think under Yeah, yeah, I didn't
Speaker 1: even mean to do that. That's a great example. So
Speaker 1: seven eight years he was the editor of the cross Word. Um,
Speaker 1: and then he was succeeded by a guy named Eugene
Speaker 1: Ti Moleska. And if there's ever been a crossword editor
Speaker 1: who deserved a cliffhanger more than Eugene tie Moleska, I've
Speaker 1: never met one. We'll be right back alright, Chuck. So
Speaker 1: how does it? How does it end with Eugene tie Meleska.
Speaker 1: So Gene Moleska is running the show now, and the
Speaker 1: puzzles become a little more varied a little more sophisticated
Speaker 1: uh more word play, but not as much of a
Speaker 1: sense of humor. I get the sense from when Wang
Speaker 1: was doing it. He was a school superintendent in the Bronx. No,
Speaker 1: he was an opera classical music and it was just
Speaker 1: a little more serious in tone than Wangs were. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean all you have to do is say opera
Speaker 1: and classical music enthusiast editing a crossword puzzle, and that's
Speaker 1: you know, polar opposite of of Wang. Yeah. So Eugeneie
Speaker 1: Moleski does a fine job. He did it for many
Speaker 1: many years, from um, nineteen seventy seven until I think
Speaker 1: ninetee and um uh then Will Shortz comes along. And
Speaker 1: from everything I can tell after reading this and seeing
Speaker 1: Will Shorts in that documentary word play, he's a like
Speaker 1: a perfect combination of every previous New York Times crossword
Speaker 1: editor that came before him, Like he's all of them
Speaker 1: rolled into one. He's, you know, very sophisticated. Um, he
Speaker 1: has a lot of culture like Moleska. He's got a
Speaker 1: sense of humor like Wang. He's um really into crosswords
Speaker 1: and knows how to make him great. Like Ferrar, He's
Speaker 1: he's just like the the whole package. Like I I
Speaker 1: didn't realize it until this moment. I'm a Will Shorts fan.
Speaker 1: I don't even do crosswords all that often. Yeah. The
Speaker 1: big thing that Shorts did, uh, and then he has
Speaker 1: kind of become known for is is modernizing it some
Speaker 1: and bringing a more youthful tone to it. It was
Speaker 1: kind of seen as like an old person's thing to
Speaker 1: sit around and do the cross words. Well that was
Speaker 1: in large part thing to Molaska, oh for sure. So uh,
Speaker 1: Shorts comes along and he's like, you know what I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do? And this is something I didn't even know.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that regular people just write these things
Speaker 1: out and submit them, which is an amazing fact. If
Speaker 1: you did not know that, I knew that. I knew that.
Speaker 1: Do you know why? Because a stuff you should know,
Speaker 1: a listener does words searches and they submit them. Remember
Speaker 1: that they did a stuff you should know word search
Speaker 1: and I think it was in USA today. Oh cool. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: Shorts came along and said, we need a younger voice
Speaker 1: in here, and so uh, I think only six teenagers
Speaker 1: previous to Shorts had ever gotten puzzles published. In his
Speaker 1: twenty five years. He has published thirty seventeen agers and
Speaker 1: the average age has gone Uh, I think down and
Speaker 1: you know, of course he still has the oldest person
Speaker 1: a hundred and one years old, but the the average
Speaker 1: age of contributor has now come down to UM has
Speaker 1: come down fifteen years from the early fifties to about
Speaker 1: the thirties. Right, So that's I mean, that's that reflects
Speaker 1: an enormous change. Like the people who are creating these
Speaker 1: crossroom puzzles are the ones who, um, who actually map
Speaker 1: out the puzzle, figure out the answers, right, the clues
Speaker 1: and the choices they're going to make are going to
Speaker 1: reflect their age group a lot more so, just by
Speaker 1: virtue of selecting puzzles that are written by a slightly
Speaker 1: younger group of people, they're going to be a lot
Speaker 1: more modern and current and um more accessible to a
Speaker 1: larger group of people. Yeah. So they get about seventy
Speaker 1: hundred submissions a week. Uh. If you're building your own
Speaker 1: crossword puzzle, you probably are not using graph paper like
Speaker 1: they used to do. You're probably using a computer program
Speaker 1: to help you out. I'll bet some hipsters who hire
Speaker 1: artism pencil sharpeners do graft papers still Yeah, they're getting
Speaker 1: their pencils from David Reese. So this is pretty interesting
Speaker 1: to me when you're making a puzzle, and I guess
Speaker 1: this kind of makes sense, um, kind of like there's
Speaker 1: one way to build a boat. You put your theme
Speaker 1: answers in the grid first, and then you put your
Speaker 1: little black squares and plot it out out and divide
Speaker 1: it into your sections, and then you write the clues. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you basically reverse engineer the puzzle, starting with the words,
Speaker 1: then the black spaces, then the clues. I had no idea.
Speaker 1: I've been doing it wrong. I start with the black spaces,
Speaker 1: then the clues, then the words. It rarely works out.
Speaker 1: Have you ever tried to write one? No? No, I know,
Speaker 1: I really don't think so. You know that part of
Speaker 1: your brain that inserts false memories when you want to
Speaker 1: answer yes to something, that that part of my brain
Speaker 1: like was just an operation. And I said, no, no, brain,
Speaker 1: you're wrong. You've never tried to do a crosswords. You
Speaker 1: never tried to make a crossword from scratch? Shut up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I enjoy crosswords, but I don't seek them out. I'm
Speaker 1: not an enthusiast. Um. There was when I was in college.
Speaker 1: I would do the one from the Red and Black
Speaker 1: every day, and then when I fly on Delta, I
Speaker 1: will do the one in the Sky magazine if it's
Speaker 1: filled out. Yeah you mean. And I UM went on
Speaker 1: a little kick where we were doing crosswords, and we
Speaker 1: bought a Chicago Tribune book of crosswords. It was like
Speaker 1: pretty much up our alley. Supposedly the New York Times
Speaker 1: is um. They they it is well known as a
Speaker 1: very difficult crossword, but that over the span of the
Speaker 1: week it actually gets progressively harder, which I didn't know.
Speaker 1: Did you know that? Yeah? I didn't know that. That's
Speaker 1: one of the few things I knew because I know
Speaker 1: that the UM. I always thought the Sunday when was
Speaker 1: the kuda grab. Apparently the Saturday is the most difficult.
Speaker 1: The Sunday is larger, but it's more like a Wednesday
Speaker 1: or Thursday on the easy scale. So I guess that's
Speaker 1: what I thought was it was bigger, so it was harder,
Speaker 1: not that there was just more to it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: the Saturday is the hardest and then Monday's the easiest.
Speaker 1: That's right. And now that they're online, of course, you
Speaker 1: can subscribe only to the Times Crossword and they have
Speaker 1: close to a half a million people that subscribe just
Speaker 1: to the crossword and apparently it's a it's a pretty
Speaker 1: decent source of income for the paper sailing New York Times.
Speaker 1: Does people pay a million dollars a year for that subscription.
Speaker 1: It's amazing. It's a lot of dough way to go,
Speaker 1: will shorts way to Go. And by the way, if
Speaker 1: you're into crossword puzzles at all and you haven't seen
Speaker 1: Wordplay yet the documentary, go see it. Um And since
Speaker 1: I said that it's short stuff away Stuff you should
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