1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Amantha, and welcome to stuff 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: I'll never told to your protection of I Heart Radio, 3 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: and I have to give you some behind the scenes. 4 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: I'm kind of laughing right now because we have outlines 5 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: that we work off of, right and um, I admitted 6 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: in a passed episode, my s key isn't working my laptop, 7 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 1: which is one of the most painful keys to not 8 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: be working right. And instead of fixing it, I've put 9 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: everything off lately because I've been so busy. I've I 10 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: have a lot of interesting workarounds, and I can tell 11 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: by this outline that I was very frustrated already. That's 12 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: so funny. I'm sorry. It just cracked me up. I've 13 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: found some ways around it, but it's not been the 14 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: easiest thing to do. I will say in one of 15 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: the outlines, you definitely misspelled my name, and that's the 16 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: other thing. As I said, my spell check isn't working, 17 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, yeah, you can like see 18 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: my descent into anger in this outline. And another thing 19 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: about this outline is it was originally a Monday Mini. 20 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: I do think it's gonna be a shorter one, but 21 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: every time we say that, it never works out, but 22 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: we'll see. But I was researching it and I think 23 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: we could come back and revisit it. Honestly, we're talking 24 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 1: about zines. Originally I was specifically talking about fanzines, So 25 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: we are going to talk about zines at large in 26 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: this one. UM, do you have any experience with znes, Samantha, 27 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: I will say I did not know what zines were 28 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: until I moved to Atlanta. I think that was around 29 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: two thousand six, two thousand seven, UM, And I always 30 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,559 Speaker 1: called it lines, which tells you how little I knew 31 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: about it and trying to understand it because there was 32 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: a whole like h a t L collective group that 33 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: gets together and does them, and I was like, what 34 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: is this? It's really fascinating, and then it got really 35 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: like trendy. Yes, so I was very scared of it. Yeah, 36 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about that because they are 37 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: experiencing a boom right now. I didn't realize resurging. Are 38 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: you kidding? It's been fifteen years, Well it's been longer 39 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: than that, but they are experiencing a resurgence. I don't 40 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: have much experience with scenes. I had one nerd one 41 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: that I just kind of found at a thrift store once, 42 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: and I really liked that one. It was like mostly 43 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: Star Wars but a bunch of other stuff, and I 44 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: just happened to find it. It was really cool. And 45 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: then Atlanta used to have Dope Girls Zens. Well, see, 46 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: I get confused with Zene designed too, but I'm going 47 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: with scenes because magazine and I feel like that's what 48 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: it's got to be. Right. I think you're right. I 49 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: just really could not grasp it. Um. Yeah, and up 50 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,839 Speaker 1: Girls are still around, but yeah, but yeah, I don't 51 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: think they don't do the zene anymore, or at least 52 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: the last I heard they had retired it. They might 53 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: have brought it back, but they are still around. Yes, 54 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: it was very popular. But one of the reasons I 55 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: wanted to talk about this was I got this inkling 56 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: that something was up a couple of weeks ago because 57 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 1: people started posting fan fiction that they'd written literal decades ago. Uh, 58 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: and I would say like, hey, I wrote this in 59 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: nineteen whatever, here it is, and I was just kind 60 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: of like, that's interesting. I mean, yeah, I appreciate it. 61 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: And then, as you know, mar Jade, who is this 62 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: Star Wars character from Legends that I'm very, very excited 63 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: to talk about on fictional women around the world. She 64 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: started popping up a lot more and I was like, 65 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: why are people talking about Marra Jade? Not that they shouldn't, 66 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: but it's just kind of like, huh, I wonder if 67 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: if there's a reason for this. It turns out there is. 68 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: There is a movement that is primarily led by women 69 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: to digitize old fanzines, to preserve them, to save them 70 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: because otherwise it's just gonna be lost. Um, and it's 71 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 1: a whole thing. It's really really interesting. I also, I 72 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: am currently reading one of the best. Like I know 73 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: I've said it before, but there's some fan fiction read 74 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: and you're like, yes, this could be published and be 75 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: better than half of the the stuff they're putting out, maybe 76 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: even more than that. And I'm reading one right now. 77 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 1: There's a result of this and it is so good. 78 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: It's like reading a book. It's all so good. But yes, 79 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: since we have been on a tech kick lately, I'm 80 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: always designed to talk about fan fiction and this is 81 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: happening right now. We thought we would go over it 82 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: fairly briefly, because honestly, it was a much bigger topic 83 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: than I thought it was gonna be uh. You can 84 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: see the episodes we did on fan fiction. You can 85 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 1: also see the recent ish many that we did that 86 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: was called a love letter a fan fiction but was 87 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: primarily about Archive of our Own, which is one of 88 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 1: the biggest fan fiction sites, which is we're going to 89 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: talk about in this conversation, right, Okay, so let's talk 90 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: about this. What are zenes not zience smith not science? 91 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: Having to repeat this to myself, Well, they encompass a 92 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: lot of things. But here are a couple of key 93 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: things involved. One is that that typically self published or 94 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 1: published by an independent, small publisher. This has mainly been 95 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: a way for marginalized folks to exercise their voices more 96 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: freely outside of mainstream media. So as a part of that, 97 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: they are usually not published in large numbers and are 98 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: for a smaller communities, and are frequently very niche um 99 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: and they aren't commercial. There's often a lot of contributions 100 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,280 Speaker 1: and connections to the zene world, which was what I 101 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: saw in Atlanta. Yeah, so a lot of people, you know, 102 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: well if you if I have a zene and you 103 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,919 Speaker 1: have zeene, will work together and collaborate and there's a 104 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 1: lot Yeah, I remember that yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, And 105 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: I always feel like I have caveat things zines aren't commercial. 106 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: But I do think we have seen with the popularity, 107 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 1: magazines try to get in on that, as always happens 108 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: in capitalism. So I think there could be an argument 109 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 1: made that some of them are commercial, but like at 110 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: their heart, at their core, they're not commercial. Okay, So 111 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: a brief history depending on how you define zines, because 112 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: I even wrestled with this and I don't know too 113 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 1: much about them, but I was like, doesn't go back 114 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: way further than this, but most people say they go 115 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 1: back to the nineteen thirties with science fiction zines, so 116 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: fans trying to like collaborate with short stories and share 117 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: their fandom with each other. The zine is short for 118 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: fan zine. That was the original use. And remember this 119 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: was before the internet and zines were away for fans 120 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: to connect with each other. It was sort of like, 121 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: it's always interesting these iterations of techno oology because I've 122 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: heard people who were like one generation before me talk 123 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: about like old message boards online and that was like 124 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: the precursor, and then the precursor to that is zines 125 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: and and so yeah, it was kind of like a 126 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: way to connect. Um. They these fans would speculate with 127 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: each other, they would share theories about their favorite works. Um, 128 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: they would work together on arts and stories, including fan fiction. Yes, 129 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: but they were also sometimes called per zines or personal 130 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: znes um, which I love, and they were often handmade. Right. 131 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: That is again, this is what I know Atlanta, and 132 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: I did not know that it had spanned so far 133 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: back because it was so niche and for again, the 134 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: ones that I saw in the early two thousand's were 135 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: more about music and art, so it was a little different, 136 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: and it was very hip culture. Yeah. So yeah, zines 137 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: all a search of growth in the fifties and sixties 138 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: against kind of like what I'm saying with counterculture movements 139 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: that were eager to support smaller, independent publications and the 140 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: underground press, and also saw it as a way to 141 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: connect with others with similar ideas, a space where people 142 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: to have a voice outside of mainstream media. Mini signs 143 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: from this time combined art and politics and activism and 144 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: writing in experimental and new and eclectic ways, which that's 145 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: carried off. That's how I knew it more so than 146 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: the fan zines. Right. I think you also just said signs, 147 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: but we're leaving it in because I think it's hilarious 148 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: having a day. Okay, well, yeah, that's one of my 149 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about this more. But that's 150 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: one of the things people keep saying. Why znes are 151 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: so unique is that you don't know what you're gonna 152 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: get in them all. They're like a really unique random 153 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: while not necessarily random, but just a lot of different 154 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 1: things that you can't really anticipate you open it up 155 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: and look at it. And two year points. Punk music 156 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:23,559 Speaker 1: zines really took off in the nineteen eighties, often combining 157 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 1: music and politics, and it offered something unique because these 158 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: znes really captured the whole aesthetic and vibe of a subculture. Uh. 159 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: And the nineties is when feminist scenes like Riot Girl 160 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: really came onto the scene, and this was a reaction 161 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: to sexism within these punk music scenes and within the 162 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: writing of punk music, and it went on to inspire 163 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: so many other znes written by women and girls about feminism, 164 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: often in conjunction with something very specific, which all coincided 165 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: with third wave eminism. Here's a quote about it from 166 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: the Sally Bingham Collection at Duke University's Rubinstein Library. Feminist 167 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: practice emphasizes the sharing of personal experience as a community 168 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: building tool, and zines proved to be the perfect medium 169 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: for reaching out to young women across the country in 170 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: order to form the revolution girl style. And yet forty 171 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: thousand zs are being published by in North America, I believe, 172 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: right right, Yeah, so you might be thinking, but wait, 173 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: I've heard so much about the death of print, and 174 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: in terms of the environment, that might be a good thing. 175 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: But zines are still out there and have recently seen 176 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: some major growth, and much of it is in the 177 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: arena of intersectional feminism, led by more women, queer folks, 178 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: and people of color. However, just like with most things, 179 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: there is still work to be done in terms of inclusivity. 180 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: One of the big criticisms of the nineties feminist zines 181 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: is that they were largely done and based around middle 182 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: class white women, and that is changing, especially with external 183 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: pressure on the publishing world. But major issues that were 184 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: compounded by things like the pandemic still remain. So like, 185 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: it was seeing this really great growth in terms of inclusivity, 186 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: and then the pandemic happens, and also capitalism ruins everything, 187 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: and some big magazines are blurring the lines between magazine 188 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: and zine, especially by copying this aesthetic of things like 189 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: riot girls try to appear like they are that thing, 190 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: when that's sort of the opposite of what zines are about. 191 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: And as part of the whole thing behind the popularity 192 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: of zines amongst women and marginalised folks is that you 193 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: can talk about feminism or whatever really without an ad 194 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 1: about plastic surgery or something in your publication, which you know, 195 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: if you want it, all for it. But the history 196 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: magazines when it comes to selling women a very specific 197 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: image of how they should look is not good. So 198 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 1: there's that. It also gives creators the space to write 199 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: about other things than women's issues, are race issues, which 200 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 1: a lot of the writers reported like I'm tired of 201 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: being asked only to write about this. I want to 202 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 1: write about fun things too, or like not that those 203 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: can't be fun, but like you know, right, and I 204 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: know a lot of it was like I love music 205 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: of all kinds and they only asked me to do 206 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: the specific genre of music and it's not what I'm 207 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: interested in, Like I've saw that, Like they would talk 208 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: about things like that again, like dope girls, their whole 209 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: thing was like, let's talk about we kind of well 210 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: that that wasn't their whole thing, but like bringing it 211 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: in and like normalizing what that looks like, um, in 212 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: a culture that is so uptight at that point in time. 213 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's very interesting to see all of that. 214 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 1: And again, what I witnessed was uh, people taking space 215 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: and creating their own art, and a lot of the zines, 216 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: not Signs, not of the zines that I saw at 217 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: that time, interweaved their artwork in the story. So it's 218 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,959 Speaker 1: really interesting to see. Yeah. Yeah, that's something else I've 219 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: loved about recent fan fiction, which we are going to 220 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: get to, I promise, But I love when they do 221 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: that where they have like art interspersed in the story, 222 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: Like I love them. Um. And I'm really going to 223 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: rue the day if it is Zions and not Zene Samantha. 224 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: But it was me, I promise. It just makes sense 225 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: to me. I'm pretty sure, right. I think I was 226 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: corrected when I first said, Okay, well we'll see. We 227 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: could have just looked it up, but we're too into 228 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: it now. Here's a quote from a Guardian article written 229 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: by Ruth Jamison. If modern feminism is multifaceted by nature. 230 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 1: There now seems to be an independently published magazine or 231 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: zene for every one of those faces. There's Sabbat, which 232 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: explores modern witchcraft through a feminist lens, Typical Girls, which 233 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: sets out to show there's no such thing, the women 234 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: only Zene Girls Club, female general interest mag Lira or Lyra, 235 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: and Private I meets folks satirical Aussie Mushpit as well 236 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: Right Post, the smart magazine for women burnt Roti, which 237 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: showcases the talent of South Asian women, Galldam, the print 238 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: version of the popular website for women of color of 239 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: the same name, and feminist indie mag's Lady Beard and 240 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: fruit Lands are amplifying women's voices, chanting female writing, and 241 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: challenging ideas about what a women's magazine can be. These 242 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: publications tap into a rich history of female protests and 243 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: print Here's the quote within the article. Obviously, there are 244 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: lots of women in the media, but they rarely control 245 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: every aspect of a magazine, and it's even rarer that 246 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: they own it, says Phoebe Lindsay of fruit Lands. Historically, 247 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: women have taken control of the way they are not 248 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: represented by publishing on their own terms. Think of Spare 249 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: Rib and the Riot Girls zens of the nineties. By 250 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: having our own magazine, we can control and direct every 251 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: element of our message. The lack of diversity in the 252 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: media is unbelievably frustrating, says Galldam's opinion editor Heather Barnett. 253 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: Galldam are changing that by providing a platform where women 254 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: and non binary people of color can write about whatever 255 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: they like. Yeah, so, the article continues. The boom in 256 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: independent magazine publishing has shown that print is not dead. Now, 257 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: independent women's magazines are setting the standard for a more 258 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: progressive women's media. They are changing the face of women's 259 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: magazines and have their sites set on the media as 260 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: a whole. As Connery and Taylor says, quote, the number 261 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: of women who are running independent magazines is inspiring where 262 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: everywhere getting done. It seems print is not only not dead, 263 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: it has also come back as a woman. Yes, I 264 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: like that. Um. And here's a quote from the Women's 265 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: Media Center. Sus Myers is a graphic designer who, along 266 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: with five other people, organizes the NYC Feminist Zine Fest, 267 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: the event that has been happening since two thousand eleven. 268 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: And offers us space to first timers and old school 269 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: zine makers to present their work and exchange ideas. The 270 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: event started with three hundred dollars raised on go fund 271 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: me and the purpose of quote promoting the self published 272 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: work of zisters of all genders as they explore a 273 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: variety of feminist topics through print media. The fact that 274 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: zines are quote created without any mediating influence from advertisers 275 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: is an important aspect of the forms. Meyer said, Um, 276 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: a zine can be a lot of things, and because 277 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: of this, it's precise definition can be wonderfully, woefully difficult 278 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: to pin down. She added, Yes, and this is one 279 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: of the things I love doing this research is there's 280 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: a lot of collections or events like this for zines, 281 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: and I would love to go. I'm pretty sure Lana 282 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: had a zine fest. I'm I'm pretty sure in the 283 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: early two thousand's they actually did, or med two thousands 284 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: they did have a zine fest, which also like what's 285 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: happening now? You know? You know? Many zines are available 286 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: in digital forms. Some argue that they were essentially pre 287 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: Internet versions of blogs. Others argue that the physical nature 288 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: is key to what makes a zine a zine, and 289 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: that's why one of the reasons why at least they're 290 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: experiencing a surge during the time social media, like people 291 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: want something kind of different where you're can be random, 292 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: it's in your hands physical. But this brings us to 293 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 1: why my fan fiction since was tingling, because the digital 294 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 1: bid is not necessarily about not offering a print option. 295 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: A lot of people are arguing it's about preserving for 296 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:21,199 Speaker 1: future generations. So as discussed inner episode on Archive of 297 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 1: our Own or a O three, which is one of 298 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: the largest, I'm pretty sure the largest fan fiction platforms 299 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,719 Speaker 1: in existence, we talked about how it's just one piece 300 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: of the nonprofit the Organization of Transformative Works, and as 301 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 1: part of their mission to preserve older fan fiction largely 302 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: published in fanzines, they recently launched the fanzine scan hosting 303 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 1: project in collaboration with zend um Um, and basically the 304 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 1: goal is to preserve these physical fan fictions on their site. 305 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,719 Speaker 1: And I have seen some of the results that what 306 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: was what was happening. I was like, oh, look at this, 307 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: and a handful of my favorite authors have sort of 308 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,199 Speaker 1: fallen off the map to participate in it. That was 309 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: another thing I saw where they'd be like, I gotta 310 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 1: go scan some what was What did they say, Cody 311 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: one Zines, I'll be back, And I was like, what, Okay? 312 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 1: But yeah, I've seen these band fiction that are decades 313 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: old and they're so well written, and I'm just like, Wow, 314 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: I understand why you were published, and I'm so glad 315 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: it was saved. I'm so glad I'm reading it right now. 316 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: And as mentioned before many times, most fan fiction is 317 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 1: created by women and other marginalized folks, which means that 318 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: those folks are largely spearheading this project. I love to 319 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 1: see it. For years, Zendom has been scanning and archiving 320 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 1: this material, but this new project came in part out 321 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: of frustration that ao thus technology didn't really allow for 322 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 1: uploading scanned fancies, which I was wondering. I was like, 323 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: can they do that? Morgan Don, who was leading the project, 324 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: described the difficulty of uploading the scans and that once uploaded, 325 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: they can't be edited and many errors are often introduced. 326 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: Donna was trying to upload a novel link fan fick 327 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:18,120 Speaker 1: with this process to a OH three, but got annoyed 328 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 1: with it, so just put up a Google drive link 329 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: to the PDF sounds like something I would do, but 330 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 1: it was taken down because the link was not fan work, 331 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: which is weird. It's a link to fan work, it's 332 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: not fank actual fan work. Yes, and I have experienced 333 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 1: this whole hassle of converting a PDF. I hear you, 334 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 1: sees you, Yes, I really do. This led to a 335 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: whole discussion about preserving fan history, a lot of this 336 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: history in zines, and how that fell to the fans 337 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: because the fans are the ones making these things. UM. 338 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: Don started SEEINGDOM to take on this whole thing, uploading 339 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 1: and converting docs with permission. I'm going to talk about 340 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,919 Speaker 1: them more in a second. UM and only a handful 341 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: of volunteers. But because of that, UM it just wasn't 342 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: working like Don wanted. Like the volunteer and the scheduling, 343 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: the organizing and all the technology, it wasn't working. So 344 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: Don reached out to Open Doors. A part of the 345 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 1: organization of Transformative works with the mission and their their 346 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 1: mission is by the way UM preserving quote those Spanish 347 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: projects that might otherwise be lost due to lack of time, interest, 348 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 1: our resources on the part of the current maintainer UH 349 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: to join in. So Dahn reached out to them. Mission 350 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: seems like it fits right with what zeemdom is trying 351 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: to do. But because of things that we've talked about 352 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: in that fan fiction episode on I O three of 353 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: crackdowns on like Tumbler, the shutdown of Yahoo groups where 354 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: a lot of fan fix was hosted, this process got 355 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: really really delayed, so it wasn't until I think twenty 356 00:20:54,880 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: nineteen that they started working together. Another thinging like Okay 357 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:03,919 Speaker 1: first A OH three is also run by volunteers, and 358 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: one of the things we talked about in an episode 359 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: is that their technology is old, like it's not super old, 360 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: but it needs to be updated, but it's just like 361 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: gotten so out of control that they also are struggling 362 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: with that stuff. Another thing is the tech divide. It's 363 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: kind of been an issue because a lot of fanzines 364 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: were written by older people who might not be the 365 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: most tech savvy to scan and save their work. Um 366 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: and Another thing, and this is what I found really 367 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: fascinating and I would love to expand on this, but 368 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 1: people often wrote under pen names um and are hard 369 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: to find. So Don talked about like calling people and 370 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: having these you know, maybe never finding them or maybe 371 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,199 Speaker 1: finding out that they had died, or maybe connecting with 372 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: an old relative who was so thrilled, like maybe they 373 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,159 Speaker 1: had lost that relative who wrote it and was so 374 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:52,959 Speaker 1: thrilled to have this kind of piece of like oh, 375 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: I didn't know they wrote that or whatever. Because they 376 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: can't upload them without permission. They have to get the 377 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: permission first. Uh huh. Yeah. So with this project, thousands 378 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 1: of physical fansies have been scanned. Most yeah, we're found 379 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: through Facebook groups are just reaching out to the names 380 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: they found in the zines um but there are thousands 381 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: and thousands and thousands more to go. One volunteer has 382 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: eight thousand Star Trek fanzines alone alone. And I want 383 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 1: to talk about this. I want to do the bigger 384 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: episode on this one day because it was so interesting. 385 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: But the Kirk Spock fan fiction archive was one of 386 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: the first to be imported to a OH three and 387 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: it was being run by a fan who taken on 388 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 1: the task of maintaining an archive of zines in that arena. Notably, 389 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 1: this fandom is also the source of a lot of 390 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:59,199 Speaker 1: our more modern Spanish spaces and understanding, including slash and 391 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: the ripple effect that that had, and a lot of 392 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 1: the women were writing about why they were writing Kirk 393 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 1: and spok is romantic couple, and they were talking about 394 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 1: how they identified with spok is not belonging anywhere and 395 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 1: getting all this like goph for the It was just 396 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: really interesting, really really interesting to see the ripple effects 397 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:20,439 Speaker 1: of that. Open Doors is starting to archives Ingdom's links 398 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: and is working with universities and other institutions to make 399 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 1: these znes available online to the public, which it hasn't 400 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 1: previously been the case, Like some universities have these collections, 401 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: but you had to be a student and go in 402 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: person to see them. Um. So that's a piece of 403 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: it too, from a article by j Castello. And this 404 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: is a long quote, so bear with me. It means 405 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 1: not being forgotten, said Maggie now Atkowska, the co editor 406 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: of Geek Elder's Speak and anthology of essays by older 407 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: women in fandom. Now Akowska herself is seventy three, and 408 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: I hope I'm not puturing your name. Um. One reason 409 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: for preserving and celebrating that history is the fact that 410 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 1: so many of the franchise is keyed phantom history, like 411 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 1: Star Trek and Star Wars have a reputation of being 412 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: for boys, whereas fanfic and fanzines have traditionally been a 413 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,680 Speaker 1: space dominated by women. They don't think we ever existed. 414 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: They don't know that women did all these things, says 415 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: now Akawska. Julie Baza, an Australian fanzine author and publisher 416 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: who volunteers with Open Doors, also emphasizes that preservation isn't 417 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,360 Speaker 1: just about making sure the best fan fiction is available 418 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: to readers. It's about preserving the culture and history that 419 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 1: got us to where we are now. It's really interesting 420 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: to get an idea of the bigger picture, she says, 421 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,360 Speaker 1: what tropes are being written about and why at different times, 422 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: how have things changed. For instance, fan fiction has often 423 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: been celebrated for its ability to give writers and readers 424 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: a chance to explore their gender and sexuality. The terminology 425 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: has changed, with words like lemon denoting explicit sexual content 426 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: and even slash denoting male male relationships falling out of favor, 427 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,400 Speaker 1: but knowing how and why they were used as important 428 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 1: in understanding how same sex relationships and women's sexuality we're 429 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 1: even more policed than they are today. At the same time, 430 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: preservation can also demonstrate the sheer breadth of fan works. 431 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: Baza shared some scans with me, which include a series 432 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: of haiku inspired by eighties sci fi movie Buckeru Bonzai. 433 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 1: For instance, when you open a fancy and you'll see cartoons, 434 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 1: you'll see essays, you'll see poetry, you'll see snarky little comments, 435 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 1: you'll see letters of comment, said now Akaska, And that's 436 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: a totally different experience than just reading one story, which 437 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: I love. They were kind of talking about that in 438 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: terms of, you know, like if you go to fan 439 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: fiction dot net, which is what they're talking about with 440 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,199 Speaker 1: the slash. The reason we say slash is because if 441 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 1: you said, like Kirk and Amper sans black, that's a friendship. 442 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: If you say Kirk slash block, that is a romantic relationship. 443 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: But that's not everybody uses fan fiction dot net anymore, Like, 444 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: that's not how it is necessarily every site, um, although 445 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: it is still in my case that's what I usually see. 446 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: But I love that, and I love like this idea 447 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: of when you open a fanzine. It's not like when 448 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 1: you click a tag and you know what you're looking 449 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: for and you know what you're gonna get probably, but 450 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 1: you could get a series of my career. That's amazing. 451 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: That's amazing. Yes, yeah, wow, you just brought me back. 452 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 1: It really like I forgot about this. Yeah, it was cool. 453 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: It's something that I'm like, I love it, but I 454 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 1: would never have the courage to do it because I'm 455 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 1: not artistic. I think I actually participated in putting like 456 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 1: a Stanza in one. I could be making this up, 457 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,199 Speaker 1: but this seems familiar, like I'm having a time, or 458 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: maybe I was just around when people did that. I 459 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: don't remember. I remember buying because I loved going to 460 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: local readings, like we have a lot of good writers 461 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: in Atlanta, and we know this. My heart has been 462 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: blessed with some of our writers recently a fiction including yourself, 463 00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: um including there was a thing called Right Club. I 464 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 1: don't know they're still going, and I believe our one 465 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,360 Speaker 1: of our producers, Mike John's, was a part of that. 466 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: She um, it was a big founding and beginning of that, 467 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: and I remember hearing her read uh there. So shout 468 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 1: out to one of the producers of I Heart and 469 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: our family rather um who began this and seeing different 470 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: writers go up and give an essay and have a moment. 471 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 1: But in that same group. They did zine clubs, and 472 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: I think they still do Actually, now that you say that, 473 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: I feel like it's been years since I attended one 474 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: of those, but I think they still do it. And 475 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 1: I know Right Club is I think a national thing, 476 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: but it's the Right Club. Atlanta was started by them, um, 477 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 1: and I remember them selling independently published books and independent zines. 478 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: Like now that I'm thinking about it, it's been several 479 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: years since I've attended one. They still do that, and 480 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: I love that aspect of it because it brings a 481 00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:01,120 Speaker 1: lot of personality, UM to these writings. And yeah, you've 482 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:02,679 Speaker 1: really put me back, and that's in fact, I just 483 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: had to really look through Twitter because it's not as 484 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 1: part of your world, you don't know, which thank you 485 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,640 Speaker 1: very much for bringing it back into my world. There's 486 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: one group called Queer Circle and I believe they're based 487 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: out of the UK that did a thing called a 488 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: t zine which they did in December, which they brought 489 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: over a hundred znes submitted by different people from all 490 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 1: over the world, all over the world from the queer community. 491 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,959 Speaker 1: And I'm like, hell, yeah, that's this stuff like that. 492 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: It's so amazing and I forgot the impact of things 493 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: like this. Yeah. Yeah, this was a really fun one 494 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: to research because I kind of knew about them, but 495 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: I didn't know too much. I'm so glad that this 496 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: project is happening, that this these fanzines are getting preserved, 497 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: because I there was a lot of other Honestly, we 498 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: talked about this before, Samantha. Sometimes we just want to 499 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: quote like entire articles because it's like, Okay, yes, this 500 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: is it. But a lot of the older women they 501 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: interviewed were like, yeah, I don't want to I don't 502 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: want this to get lost because I think other people 503 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: will still enjoy it, and it's such a good marker 504 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: of where the fandom was then, So why should it 505 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: get lost just because you know the Internet wasn't around then, right, 506 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: So I don't know. It makes me very happy. Yeah. 507 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: It encompasses so many mediums to this that it's a 508 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: phenomenal thing, and being digitized would be an amazing thing 509 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: to preserve things. I would love to see some of 510 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties zines. I want to know what those are, 511 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: so give me a copy because they're they're also like 512 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: aesthetically pleasing because for me, I love variety and it 513 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: doesn't need to be clean. I need like I love. 514 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: It's not chaos, but the variety within it and the 515 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: way they bring it together that I'm like, Yeah, this 516 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: is fun. This is an amusing thing that you can 517 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: see and it's someone's take of whatever they're publishing or 518 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: whatever they're trying to send out. So yeah, yeah, yeah, well, 519 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, I have been enjoying the 520 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: fan Fix and everybody thinks who is doing that uploading it? 521 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: Because I've been like blown away. I legibly obviously texted 522 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: you and I was like, I'm reading of fan fictions 523 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: that is so much better so much of the official 524 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: stuff out there, and it would have been lost. It 525 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: would have been lost, and that's just um, yeah, I don't. 526 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: I don't want it. I'm I don't. I'm very happy. 527 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: Uh So if anybody listening is participating in this or 528 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: has any thoughts about this, that would be great. But yeah, 529 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: it is pretty beautiful to bring like one topic and 530 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: see all these different takes on it, all these I 531 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: don't know, it is really cool. Pretty much anyone can 532 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: make one. There are tutorials online if you're interested. Uh, 533 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: if you have made one, oh my goodness, let us know, yes, yes, 534 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: and if you have any suggestions, because we did go 535 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: over some in that middle part, but there are a 536 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: lot right now and it's a lot is happening um 537 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 1: and especially in yeah, kind of the intersectional feminist realm 538 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: of zines, So send to those are way. Yeah, maybe 539 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: we can do that as a book club somehow. That'd 540 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: be cool. I think we could. I think we could well. 541 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: In the meantime, if you've got any of those suggestions 542 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: or thoughts about this at all, uh, you can email 543 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: as at stuffing your momil stuff at I heart media 544 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on Twitter, at most 545 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: podcast or Instagram and stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks 546 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: as always to our super producer Christina. Thank you Christina, Yes, 547 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told 548 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: the distrection of I Heart Radio. 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