WEBVTT - FBI Raid & Arizona Republicans Challenge National Monument 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:07.520 This is Bloomberg Law with June Grossel from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:11.840 There's something centers to going on here. There's something bigger 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:17.160 than just the FBI confiscating the records that. 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:21.120 They took, and Fulton County Chairman Rob Pitts says the 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:24.960 county wants the twenty twenty election files that the FBI 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:28.800 sees last week back. They're asking a federal court to 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:33.159 order the FBI to return the seven hundred boxes of ballots, 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:37.400 voter rolls, and other election records, calling the county the 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:41.760 poster child for further federal action on elections elsewhere in 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:42.400 the country. 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:45.960 This is I think probably the first step in whatever 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:51.199 they're going to do in order to depress voter participation, 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:55.360 voter registration, making whatever changes they think are necessary to 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:58.160 help their case in twenty twenty six, but more importantly 0:00:58.160 --> 0:00:59.320 in twenty twenty eight. 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:03.840 As President Trump is doubling down on his calls to 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:05.480 nationalize elections. 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:09.080 I wouldn't see elections be honest, and if a state 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:11.640 can't run an election, I think the people behind me 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:12.960 should do something about it. 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:17.920 Of Course, the Constitution gives the authority to administer elections 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:22.160 to the states. My guest is Barbara McQuaid, a professor 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:25.160 at the University of Michigan Law School and a former 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:29.560 US attorney. Barbara, why do you think the FBI sees 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:34.319 those hundreds of boxes of ballots and voter rolls and 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:38.679 other election records from the twenty twenty presidential election. 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:42.920 It's unknown, of course, but we have some hints. 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:46.160 I mean, one is they got a search for it, 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:50.280 which means a magistrate judge found probable cause to believe 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:54.280 that evidence of a crime would be found there. And 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.520 we know from the public filing that what they obtained 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:05.080 were ballots, tabulation tapes, and voter roles. Now, twenty twenty 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:09.440 is six years ago, and so it would seem that 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:13.680 anything that occurred during that year would be time barred 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:16.440 by the five year statute of limitations. But of course 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:19.720 that's not something that a magistrate judge had taken into 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:23.800 consideration at that stage. Perhaps there's some allegation of an 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:28.840 ongoing conspiracy that could keep that allegation fresh. 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:30.160 I don't know. 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:36.400 But also you can't ignore the simultaneous civil request that 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.359 Trump's doj has been making to try to get voter 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:42.240 rolls from a number of states, including Georgia. They have 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:45.320 failed in states where decisions have been made, like California 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:47.400 and Oregon, where judges have said no. 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:49.440 The federal government is not entitled to this stuff. 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:52.360 So are they simply using criminal process to get that 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:56.520 which they could not obtain otherwise. But the fact that 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.440 a magistrate found probable cause suggests. 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:02.000 That there is more information there than we currently know. 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:05.640 The prosecutor who sought the warrant was not the US 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:10.720 attorney in Atlanta, but the Saint Louis US Attorney, Thomas Albus. 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:15.639 So he's been appointed to oversee this. I don't know 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:18.240 if they're calling it election integrity, what they're calling it. 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:21.480 Yeah, it's really unusual, but not illegal. 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:24.840 I mean, so much of what the Trump administration does 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:29.920 is technically lawful, but either unusual or you know, discretion 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:33.280 you'd rather see someone not exercise. I suppose ordinarily you 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:35.600 would expect the US Attorney from the Northern District of 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:40.119 Georgia to oversee any search conducted within his jurisdiction. That's 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:42.520 the way it's done in ninety nine point nine percent 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:45.600 of the cases. The Attorney General does, however, have the 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:50.520 authority to appoint a special attorney to investigate any matters 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:53.160 that she chooses, and we've seen this done over the years. 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:56.240 For example, Pat Fitzgerald, who was the US attorney in 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:59.520 Chicago at the time, handled the Scooter Libby case. I 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:01.480 think that was effort to just sort of get it 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:04.840 out of Washington so that it wouldn't have the stench 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:08.320 of politics. I know that Anne Tompkins out of North 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:14.000 Carolina handled the prosecution of General Petraeus. For example, John Durham, 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:18.080 before he was the special counsel looking at the origins 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:22.920 of the Russia investigation, actually investigated CIA torture. 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:25.600 At one time, So it's not unprecedented. 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:29.640 It's often in sort of politically charged cases where the 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:33.040 Attorney General may appoint somebody outside of Washington who's a 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:36.120 US attorney or it doesn't have to be to handle 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:39.320 maybe sensitive cases. And I think it's especially true if 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:41.880 the case might transcend the boundaries of. 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:43.480 A particular judicial district. 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:46.520 So maybe this case is going to include not just Georgia, 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:49.400 but some other states, so that might make some sense. 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:52.160 I worry a little bit about I don't know Thomas Albis, 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:52.920 but I do know that. 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:53.960 He comes from Missouri. 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:59.279 He has been the top deputy to former attorney general 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:03.200 in Missouri named Eric Schmidt. Eric Schmidt joined in the 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:07.400 lawsuit with Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton when they tried 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:10.919 to file a direct lawsuit to the Supreme Court to 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:14.520 challenge the outcome of election results in several states during 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:17.839 the twenty twenty election. So he's got sort of the 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.320 association with election deniers that causes me some concern. 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:26.480 In your latest column for Bloomberg, you compared it to 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:31.120 the appointment of Lindsay Halligan as US Attorney for the 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:36.800 Eastern District of Virginia. She's the Trump loyalist with no 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:42.599 prosecutorial experience who was put in place to get indictments 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:47.800 against James Comey and Letitia James, indictments which were later dismissed. 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:49.880 Is she still hanging in there? 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:53.080 She finally resigned yep, and went on her way. 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:53.760 Yeah. 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:56.440 You know, this is not quite as irregular as that 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:58.360 that was clearly legally invalid. 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:01.839 Courts found that threw it out. This is legally. 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:05.600 Valid, but it does have sort of the appearance at 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:09.359 least the whiff of You remember, her predecessor was a 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:12.320 guy named Eric Siebert, who said I'm not going to 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:14.800 indict Jim Comey and Letitia James, and he got fired 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:18.640 for it. And in twenty twenty, there was a different 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.800 US attorney Trump appointed in the Northern District of Georgia 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:22.560 by the name of b. J. 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:25.080 Pack and he resigned. 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:28.680 In December of twenty twenty when Trump started asking Brad Raffensberger, 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:31.520 the Secretary of State there, to find me eleven seven 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:35.280 hundred and eighty votes. So you wonder if it isn't 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:40.000 the case that these US attorneys who've got backgrounds as 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:44.200 federal prosecutors. As the current US attorney there in Northern Georgia, 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:47.000 does I think his name is Hertzberger? You know, he's 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:49.360 a career a USA. But Trump's not going to make 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:52.360 the same mistake twice, right, He's going to make sure 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:55.240 he's got somebody he can trust that Pam Bondy has 0:06:55.320 --> 0:07:00.159 handpicked to handle this very sensitive operation as opposed to 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:01.440 the person. 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:04.040 Who would ordinarily assign this case too. 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:06.839 So that's all I meant by Lindsay Halligan. You know, 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:11.160 the Trump appointed US attorney not willing to play ball, 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:15.640 and so let's bring in the specialist from outside who 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:18.360 will do Trump's bidding. Kind of has the whiff of 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:22.480 that though, you know, certainly the appointment itself appears to 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:23.440 be legal. 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:26.920 And actually the special Agent in charge of the Atlanta 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:31.320 Field Office resigned from his post about a week before 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:34.920 the agent served the war and there was no public explanation. 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:39.320 Yeah, that's another, you know, red flag, I suppose, And 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:43.280 I don't know whether he resigned or was fired, and 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:45.840 I don't know why he left. I know cash PTTEL 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:49.880 has been firing agents who had anything to do with 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:54.160 either the Trump investigations or the January sixth investigations, which 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:55.160 itself is improper. 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:57.560 There's no allegation that engaged in enimous conduct. They just 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:59.240 don't like the cases that they worked on. 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:02.240 I don't know why. But again, that would be another 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:05.600 safeguard there. The Special Agent in charge of the FBI 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:10.960 runs the FBI office in Atlanta. That office was tasked 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:14.000 with conducting this search, and so the special Agent in 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:15.720 charge would be someone who'd be in a position to 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:18.640 push back and say, no, we're not going to do this. 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:19.840 I don't think it's lawful. 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.480 I don't think it's an appropriate use of our power, 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.800 or at least let's talk about this and the fact 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:30.200 that he was either fired or resigned again. Is just 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:34.520 one more red flag and another irregularity among many. 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:38.080 Fulton County is suing to get the records back, but 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:41.079 they say they won't be able to verify that they've 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:45.120 received everything back because one, typically they're given copies of 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:49.359 the records, but this time they weren't given copies. And two, 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:53.440 there was no chain of custody inventory taken at the 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:55.040 time the records were seized. 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:57.199 Oh what a mess. I didn't know that. 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:01.960 So, you know, the chaos of the Trump administration never 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:05.800 ceases to amaze me. I mean, of course, ordinarily, when 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:09.880 the FBI conducts a search, there is a whole protocol 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:13.040 for how that's done. They get training at Quantico for 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:15.760 how to do this. There is an agent who leads 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:18.840 the search, and then there are other agents assigned to 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:25.000 the search. They assign various agents, at least two to every. 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:26.400 Room that gets searched. 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:30.040 When there are computers involved, they track what it is 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:35.280 they're taking or whether they're just copying it, and documenting 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:39.000 that carefully is critically important, number one, so that everybody 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.000 knows what was taken, so the rightful owner of the 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:43.920 property kind of requested back. But also if you're going 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:46.280 to use this at evidence at trial. You have to 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:49.480 authenticate it and show that chain of custody so that 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:52.679 the jury knows this isn't something that you just manufactured 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:55.080 once you got back to the FBI office, that you 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:57.840 can have a witness testify. I am the one who 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:00.760 showed up at the Fulton County Election office on such 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:01.440 and such day. 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:03.920 I took this document into. 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.640 My hands, or I copied it from a computer or 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:09.320 whatever it was. I put my initials on it. I 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:12.760 put it in an evidence bag. I labeled the drive 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:16.120 whatever it is, so that that chain of custody can 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:20.480 be retrieved at trial. It makes me wonder whether they're 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:24.400 obtaining this evidence not so much for any future criminal case, 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:25.880 but for some other purpose. 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:27.640 I don't know what that purpose would be. 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:31.000 It seems to be in line with the Justice Department 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:34.439 suing twenty four states to try to get not only 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:39.520 names and addresses, but voter birth dates and drivers license 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:44.800 information and partial social Security numbers. And I've been wondering 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:48.600 what they need or want all this information for. 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.120 Yeah, there's been some speculation. You know, I don't think 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:52.360 we know. 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:54.840 I don't think the Trump administration has said so, but 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:58.760 some of the speculation is one to undermine public confidence 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:00.839 in the twenty twenty City midterms. 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:03.480 Two to identify. 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:07.040 People who are not valid voters. You know, they're dead 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:11.040 or they're non citizens. Fine, I mean people shouldn't be 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:14.200 voting if they are not eligible to vote. But also 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:20.480 to obtain private data to conduct influence campaigns. We know 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:24.440 in twenty sixteen Steve Bannon found at Cambridge Analytica and 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:26.680 started doing some of this analytical work. You know, in 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:29.600 the same way Netflix will suggest to you a show 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:32.160 you might like, and they're pretty good, right. 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:34.439 They are based. 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:37.199 On what you've watched before, what you've liked before. They 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:40.079 can suggest things or you know, when you are on 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:43.160 Google and other things, the ads that pop up are 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:45.800 based on some of your prior searches. In the same way, 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:50.880 what Steve Bannon's group researched and learned is that if 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:54.480 they can learn certain information about you, then they can 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:58.840 send you targeted ads that can have nudging effects. So, 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:01.360 for example, if that we know that this person is 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.200 a gun owner and cares deeply about gun rights, we 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:07.480 can send them targeted ads all about how a particular 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:11.120 candidate supports gun rates or their opponent wants to take 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:14.760 away your guns. If a person cares deeply about immigration issues, 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.600 they can send you targeted ads on that topic. So 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:19.920 it can be a real treasure trove to have all 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:24.920 of this information for election purposes. And voter information has 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:29.439 always been safeguarded and considered a voter's private information. And 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:31.920 I don't know that that's information that we want to 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.800 be sharing with political campaigns. 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:37.440 I think the answer from most of us is that 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:40.320 we don't want that to be shared. We'll talk more 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:44.640 about that coming up. And also Democrats are sounding the 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:50.360 alarm that Tulsey Gabbard, the Director of National Intelligence, was 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:55.040 at this FBI raid. Democratic Senator Mark Warner, the vice 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:58.360 chair of the Senate Intel Committee, says Gabbard has no 0:12:58.520 --> 0:12:59.960 place in this investigation. 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.680 To see her skulking around in a baseball cap the 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.120 picture that was posted. You never thought you could make 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:06.719 this stuff up. 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:10.440 That's coming up next. I'm June Grosso and you're listening 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:17.000 to Bloomberg. Is the recent FBI raid of a Georgia 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:21.640 county election office a precursor to battles ahead as the 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:26.760 Trump administration steps up efforts to obtain sensitive voter information 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:31.000 from states. Fulton County is suing to get the FBI 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.920 to return the seven hundred boxes of ballots, voter rolls, 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:39.360 and other election records, with County Chairman Rob Pitts questioning 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:41.080 why the records were taken. 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:45.000 We were given no notice whatsoever. They showed up and 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:48.360 took the seven hundred boxes that they wanted. So what 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:51.280 they're doing with them now, we don't know. Typically we're 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:53.840 given copies. We don't even have copies of what they took. 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:56.400 So it's a problem. What are they doing with Where 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:57.439 are they? Who hasn't? 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:01.559 Lots of questions and not many answers, and Democrats in 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:07.200 Congress are questioning why Tulci Gabbert, the Director of National Intelligence, 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:11.280 was at the Fulton County search last week. Senator Mark 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:15.640 Warner raised concerns about her presence because the search was 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:17.000 a law enforcement action. 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:21.240 What the heck is she doing on the FBI serving 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.760 a domestic warranty? If this doesn't concern the heck out 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:27.200 of every American, it sures, how should. 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:32.000 Gabert also facilitated a phone call between those FBI agents 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:36.520 and President Trump after the search warrant was executed, and 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:40.280 Warner is calling on her to testify in person before 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:42.000 the Senate Intelligence Committee. 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:45.560 To see her skulking around in a baseball cap the 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:48.000 picture that was posted. You never thought you could make 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:48.560 this stuff up. 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.200 I've been talking to Barbara McQuay, a professor at the 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:55.160 University of Michigan Law School. Barbara adding to the oddity 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:58.760 of the search was the appearance of the Director of 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:03.920 National intelligen Gents, Tulsa Gabbard, who later said that President 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.920 Trump directed her to be at the search and then 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:12.800 afterwards President Trump spoke to the agents on the phone 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:13.760 on speak of. 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:16.480 All of this highly irregular and bizarre. 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.840 So there are two reasons it's bizarre to me that 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:23.640 Tulsi Gabbard was there. Number One, a person at her level, 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:27.280 the Director of National Intelligence, like just should have better 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.560 things to do, right, They have trained agents for this work. 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:32.960 You would not expect the Attorney General to be there. 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:35.440 You would not expect the head of the FBI to 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.200 be there. Right, These are this is in the trenches 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:40.880 kind of work that agents are trained to do and 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:43.160 do every day. So the idea that she's there, and 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:45.320 she's there like you know, in a ball cap and everything, 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.080 like what is she rolling up her sleeves and grabbing evidence. 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:48.840 I don't think so. 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:51.880 So just bizarre that she's physically present at the scene, 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.120 first of all. Second of all, this really feels like 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:59.880 something way beyond her remit. Her job is to court 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:04.560 nate intelligence collection among the eighteen intelligence agencies in the 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:08.600 federal government, and then to report to the President about 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:11.640 the results of those findings, to answer any questions he 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:15.160 may have to advise him about threats to the national security. 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.160 These are threats coming from foreign. 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:24.080 Actors, So that suggests that there is some foreign nexus 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:25.320 to this search. 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:28.320 I can't imagine what that would be. It kind of 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:30.720 goes back to some of those conspiracy theories. Remember when 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:35.280 Sidney Powell was saying things like dominion falsely, I'll add 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:43.120 dominion voting machines were programmed by Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.400 like what. And then remember there was some tie to 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:49.520 Italy that caused William Barr to actually travel there with 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:51.800 John Durham when they were investigating the origins of the 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:54.320 Russian investigation. They never found anything there. 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:57.520 The Inspector General never found anything relating to these things. 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.520 It seems like it was all just wild, crazy stuff 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:05.160 that was manufactured. But here we are again with some 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:08.159 suggestion that there's some foreign nexus to all of this. 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.000 I don't know what it is, but if there's not 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:14.560 any foreign nexus, highly improper for Tulsa Gabbert to be there. 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.919 But if she's there, it does raise this specter of 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:20.680 is there some foreign nexus to this? 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:24.040 And I just can't imagine where this is going. But 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:25.440 brace yourself, June. 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:27.760 Well, what I was going to say is, you know, 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:31.040 people might say, well, let them investigate. If there's nothing there, 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:34.280 then no harm, no foul, But you don't know if 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:38.080 there could be you know, manufactured crimes or as you said, 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:41.840 the risks of undermining the midterm elections. I mean, there's 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:45.560 so much that could happen. You know, it's unsettling, to 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:46.680 say the least. 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:47.439 It really is. 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:49.000 And I think one of the great harms of this 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:53.879 administration is because of some of the acts they've engaged in, 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:57.560 you know, just like misleading us about what happened on 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:00.399 the ground in Minneapolis with these shooting when we can 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:01.000 see with our. 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:02.520 Own eyes that is not what they say. 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:05.800 I think that some courts have said they've lost the 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:09.640 presumption of regularity that our federal government has always enjoyed 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:12.199 that we trust that when they say they're going to 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:15.800 do something, that's what they're doing, and that we have 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:18.000 to sort of, you know, trust and wait and see 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:20.560 what happens. But I think the track record of this 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:24.040 administration has made us all very skeptical, and I worry 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:27.359 that that kind of skepticism will continue even after this 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:28.639 administration ends. 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:31.439 Thanks so much, Barbara, it's always a pleasure having you on. 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:35.800 That's Professor Barbara McQuaid of the University of Michigan Law School. 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:41.600 Arguments at the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals could determine 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:46.199 whether state legislatures can bring lawsuits over the objections of 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:49.960 the state's governor and attorney general. The Ninth Circuit held 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:54.240 oral arguments in a case where Republican lawmakers in Arizona 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:59.359 sidestep the Democratic state governor and attorney general in challenging 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:04.880 the Footsteps National Monument created by former President Joe Biden 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:08.959 on federal land in twenty twenty three. The monument designation 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:13.200 will help preserve fifteen hundred square miles and turned a 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:18.320 decades long vision for Native American tribes and environmentalists into 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:23.040 a reality, but Republican lawmakers and the uranium mining industry 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:27.119 that operates in the area had opposed the designation. The 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:31.080 appeals court will decide whether state lawmakers have standing to 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:34.800 challenge the White House's use of the Antiquities Act to 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:39.720 create national monuments. My guest is an expert in environmental law, 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:43.320 Dave Owen, a professor at the University of California College 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:47.000 of Law in San Francisco. There were oral arguments in 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:51.280 this case before the Ninth Circuit on Tuesday. Tell us 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:52.840 about the underlying case. 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:58.680 The underlying lawsuit is about the designation by President Biden 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:05.560 of the Ancient Footsteps National Monument in Arizona, and the 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:10.960 plaintiffs are claiming that this designation was unlawful because basically 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:11.680 it's too broad. 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:16.679 To get the side straight, it's the Republican controlled Arizona 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:22.760 legislature that filed the lawsuit challenging the monument, but the 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:27.760 state's governor, a Democrat, and the state's Attorney general, another Democrat, 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:29.359 opposed the lawsuit. 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:33.120 Yes, that's exactly right. There's a group of plaintiffs, including 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:38.840 the state legislature and the state itself, as represented by 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:42.280 the Attorney General's office, has intervened on the side of 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:44.320 the defendants on the side of the federal government. 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:49.560 President Trump has not been supportive of national monuments, shall 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:51.800 we put it that way? So is it a surprise 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:55.159 that the Trump administration is lining up here with the 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:57.720 democratic governor and attorney general. 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:00.800 I would say at this stage of the litigation, it 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:04.960 is not surprising. At this stage of the litigation, the 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:09.280 question at issue is whether the plaintiffs have standing to suit, 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:15.480 and the federal government almost always is arguing for more 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:19.480 restrictive standing for lawsuits against the federal government, and so 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:24.040 it has an institutional interest that cuts across administrations at 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:27.160 limiting its own ability to be sued. And since that's 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:29.439 all that's at stake right now, no, I think it 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:32.560 makes sense. It's not surprising that the federal government is aligned. 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:35.960 A federal judge dismissed the lawsuit. Why did he or 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:36.919 she dismiss it? 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:41.600 So the reason is a legal doctrine called standing just 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:46.680 means that the plaintiffs have to have a direct personal 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:49.000 stake in the lawsuit. They have to be threatened with 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:51.720 some sort of injury, and it has to be both 0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:54.400 plausible and not too speculative, and then the court has 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:58.240 to be able to fix the problem by ordering the 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.119 defendants to do something differently. And so what the court 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:06.400 said is that the legislature does not have standing because 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:10.320 it is not authorized to claim injury on behalf of 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:14.160 the state. Instead, it can only sue to defend some 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:17.400 sort of injury to its ability to function as a legislature, 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:21.560 and there's no such injury here. And then the other plaintiffs, 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:24.520 who are local governments and private entities, the court said 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:30.040 that their claims of injury were very speculative and therefore 0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:32.280 did not provide a basis for the lawsuit to go forward. 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:36.040 During the oral arguments before the Ninth Circuit, the Deputy 0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:39.920 Solicitor General said, the Attorney General represents the state here 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:43.960 in federal court, not the legislature, not the treasurer. I 0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:47.080 mean that seems like a basic concept to me. It's 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:50.920 the attorney General who represents the state, it is, basically. 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:54.240