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Speaker 1: Hello, Next Picture Show listeners. Here's our friendly reminder that

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Speaker 1: if you enjoy the Next Picture Show, you'll really enjoy

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Speaker 1: month and unlock bonus episodes for five dollars a month.

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Speaker 1: We currently have a bonus episode about Baseol movies with

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Speaker 1: One on the Way, in which Scott and I talk

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Speaker 1: about introducing great and sometimes not so great movies to

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Speaker 1: our children, and another episode about Hamilton the movie or

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Speaker 1: whatever they're calling it. To describe to our Patreon, please

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Speaker 1: visit patreon dot com slash Next Picture Show.

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Speaker 2: It's very difficult to keep the line between the.

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Speaker 3: Past and you believe that someone out of the past

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Speaker 3: we can.

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Speaker 4: Enter take possession of a living We.

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Speaker 5: May be through with the past, but the past is

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Speaker 5: not through with us.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Next Picture Show. A Movie That Week

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Speaker 1: podcast devoted to a classic film and how it shaped

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Speaker 1: our thoughts on a recent release.

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Speaker 6: I'm Keith Phipps here with Genevieve Koski, Tasha Robinson.

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Speaker 4: And Scott Tobias.

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Speaker 1: With American Movie Theater is largely closed. We're continuing to

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Speaker 1: focus on Coreantainment, pairing films you can find on vod cable, television,

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Speaker 1: or streaming services. This week, we're going to be discussing

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Speaker 1: a pair of funny movies that put songs in our

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Speaker 1: hearts as we sing the praises.

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Speaker 2: Wait wait, wait, wait wait, Keith, we're not literally singing right,

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Speaker 2: What do you mean I mean as part of this

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Speaker 2: intro you're not going to make a sing Look, I

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Speaker 2: am not scanning down the script right now to find bracket.

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Speaker 2: Tasha breaks into song.

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Speaker 1: Close bracket.

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Speaker 2: I am not doing that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you're firm on that. Yes, okay. As I was saying,

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Speaker 1: we'll be singing the praises of a pair of funny

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Speaker 1: movies with music, Scott, can you tell us about what

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Speaker 1: we have planned?

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Speaker 5: A sure thing, Keith, it looks like you just deleted

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Speaker 5: Tasha breaks into song and replaced it with Scott breaks

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Speaker 5: into song. I'm sorry, but I'm with Tasha. People do

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Speaker 5: not subscribe to this podcast to hear us try to sing.

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Speaker 5: Let alone hear us try to sing ya ya ding dong.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: So you're passing to Genevieve. Nope, nope, not me and

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Speaker 1: your all agree with that. I should replace some lyrics

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Speaker 1: I've written for a song parody set to the tune

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Speaker 1: of Old Town Road with some more straightforward text, None

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Speaker 1: of you want to sing? Gonna take my song to

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Speaker 1: the Erosion Song Contest, Going to sing till I'm named

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Speaker 1: the best? No, absolutely not, Okay, no circumstance, Okay, Jenny,

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Speaker 1: can you pause recording? Okay, we're back, Tasha, Can you

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Speaker 1: tell us what we're we talking about on this episode

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Speaker 1: and the next one?

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Speaker 2: Yes, but I'm going to do this as tunelessly as possible.

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Speaker 2: Since nineteen fifty six, the Eurovision Song Contest is pitted

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Speaker 2: at an assortment of countries largely but not exclusively from Europe

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Speaker 2: against each other to determine who can perform the year's

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Speaker 2: best original song. Some notable past winners have included Abba,

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Speaker 2: Celine Dion, Lulu, Katrina and the Waves, and the makeup

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Speaker 2: clad finish metal band Lordie. Though this year's contest has

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Speaker 2: been canceled for the first time since You Began, that

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Speaker 2: didn't stop the release of the movie Eurovision Song Contest,

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Speaker 2: The Story of Fire Saga, starring Will Ferrell and Rachel

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Speaker 2: McAdams as a pair of lifelong friends whose music duo

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Speaker 2: Fire Saga makes an unlikely play for the title Eurovision

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Speaker 2: put us in mind of another music filled comedy, A

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Speaker 2: Mighty Wind, the third in a series of improv heavy comedies,

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Speaker 2: directed by Christopher Guest and starring a cast of ensemble players.

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Speaker 2: It's set against the backdrop of another sort of performance,

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Speaker 2: a tribute concert that brings together veterans of New York's

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Speaker 2: folk revival scene.

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Speaker 1: So this week we're going to Sway to the music

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Speaker 1: of the Folksmen, the main Street Singers and the New

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Speaker 1: main Street Singers and Mitch and Mickey. The next week

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Speaker 1: we'll make our way from Husselvich on Iceland's northern coast

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Speaker 1: to the bright lights of Edinburgh for Eurovision Song Contest.

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Speaker 7: Finally, in the news tonight, the music world mourns the

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Speaker 7: death of folk music icon Irving steinbloom Steinblue managed the

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Speaker 7: careers of the main Street Singers, the Folkesman, and Mitch

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Speaker 7: and Mickey. Fitting tribute that we could come up with

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Speaker 7: was a memorial concert.

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Speaker 8: I'd like to think that Mitch would agree to do this,

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Speaker 8: because I already said, yes.

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Speaker 1: Where else could we have such an event? At town Hall.

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Speaker 6: We're very pleased to be having the folk people here.

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Speaker 2: The acoustics are just perfect.

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Speaker 6: Well, there's up.

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Speaker 4: You went to the record store.

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Speaker 7: You knew that the new Folksman album would be one

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Speaker 7: word title pitching, we should rambling singing, But they had

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Speaker 7: no They had no hole in the center of the records, and.

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Speaker 4: If you placed a hole in them, you'd have a

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Speaker 4: good guy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just.

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Speaker 7: My dad.

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Speaker 1: Fred Knox was an original mainstream singer. He's a dead

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Speaker 1: person now, but when he was alive, he was so happy.

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Speaker 3: There had been abuse in my family, but it was

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Speaker 3: mostly musical in nature.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy nine, Christopher Guest, Harry Shear, and Michael

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Speaker 1: McKean introduced the world to Spinal Tap, a hapless British

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Speaker 1: heavy metal trio they go on to play in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four mockumentary This Is Spinal Tap, covering the

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Speaker 1: band's slow, painful, funny dissolution and last minute resurrection over

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Speaker 1: the course of its nineteen eighty two tour of the

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Speaker 1: United States. The Rod Writer directed film won praise for

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Speaker 1: its improv approach and for its painfully accurate depiction of

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Speaker 1: the music business. When McKeon guessed it on Saturday at

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Speaker 1: Live that same year, during a season of Ringers that

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Speaker 1: found both Sheer and guests joining the cast for one

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Speaker 1: year stints. They unveiled another musical trio drawn from a

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Speaker 1: different branch in the music world, The Folkesmen, who are

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Speaker 1: reuniting for the first time since a brief moment in

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Speaker 1: the sun as part of the early sixties folk revival.

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Speaker 1: On a two thousand and nine tour that found guest,

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Speaker 1: Serra and McKean playing music from both Spinal Tap and

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Speaker 1: The Folksman, Sheer called the band's songs a parody of

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Speaker 1: quote the fake folk music being written in office buildings

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Speaker 1: in Manhattan's Upper West Side. That assessment sounds far harsher

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Speaker 1: than the actual depiction of the Folksmen I'm Sorry It Live,

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Speaker 1: or the broader swath of the folk ill scene depicted

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Speaker 1: in a Mighty Wind. The guest directed at two thousand

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Speaker 1: and three film that brought back the Folksmen and introduced

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Speaker 1: some contemporaries as he participated in a memorial concert for

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Speaker 1: the music producer that started all of their careers. The

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Speaker 1: film freely points out some of the scenes absurd elements,

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Speaker 1: starting with the artificiality Sheer notes inspired by crossover pop

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Speaker 1: backs like the Kingston Trio, the main street singers happily

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Speaker 1: court pop success, whether by swapping out old members with

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Speaker 1: new ones or hooking up with the enthusiastic but shameless

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Speaker 1: manager Mike Lafontaine played by Fred Willard, talking he has discussed

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Speaker 1: the kiss at the end of the song at Kiss

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Speaker 1: at the End of the Rainbow performed by the duo

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Speaker 1: Mitch and Mickey played by Eugene Levy and Catherine O'Hara,

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Speaker 1: as if it had the historical importance of the Battle

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Speaker 1: of Hastings. It's an into their world that can't see

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Speaker 1: its own ridiculousness, much like the world's depicted in Guests

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Speaker 1: two previous films, Waiting for Guffman and Best in Show.

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Speaker 1: But also as in those films, there's a lot more

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Speaker 1: going on. Co writing with Levy and as always working

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Speaker 1: in collaboration with his performers, Guest brings it to into

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Speaker 1: sense of affection and understanding to the film. The folks

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Speaker 1: that may not have any claim to authenticity, but they

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Speaker 1: love playing music and they play it well, and over

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Speaker 1: the course of the film they also play out an

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Speaker 1: understated subplot about what it means to be in a

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Speaker 1: creative partnership over a long period of time, even one

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Speaker 1: that's lay in dormant for years. That's even more pronounced

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Speaker 1: to the scenes involving Mickey and Mitch, who experienced the

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Speaker 1: painful breakup of both their professional and romantic relationships, spurred

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Speaker 1: by Mitch's mental illness. The music might be faked insofar

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Speaker 1: as that term has any meaning when it comes to music,

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Speaker 1: but what it means to their characters and their audience

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Speaker 1: is anything but. Also, the characters can really sing and play,

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Speaker 1: and the music they make is pretty lovely. Even those

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Speaker 1: main street singer sellouts can carry a tune. The goal

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Speaker 1: in this is Spinal Tap was to create workmen like

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Speaker 1: hard rock that only revealed its silly excesses to those

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Speaker 1: who paid attention. The songs in The Mighty Wind captures

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Speaker 1: much of what was appealing about the folk revival, even

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Speaker 1: as it tweaks the movement for its repackaging of folk elements.

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Speaker 1: There are many folks songs about train rextdents, mining disastrous,

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Speaker 1: for instance, but only the Folksmen's Blood and the Coal

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Speaker 1: has both The song's infectious though and like the movie

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Speaker 1: around it, you can laugh at it, but that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean it won't get stuck in your head.

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Speaker 3: Let's start right out, Hey what happened? As you know,

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Speaker 3: back in nineteen soon I start on a series called

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Speaker 3: what Happened? And every time something can go wrong, I

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Speaker 3: would look at the camera and say, hey, what happened.

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Speaker 3: We had a lot of fun with that and a

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Speaker 3: lot of other catchphrases. I got a real red wagon

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Speaker 3: and I can't do my work. And I believe I

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Speaker 3: was the first one to use a phrase.

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Speaker 1: I don't think so.

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Speaker 3: But it only lasted a year, and that's good because

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Speaker 3: that's how you establish a cault.

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Speaker 1: All right, So same question as usual, what's over one's

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Speaker 1: history with this film?

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Speaker 6: I watched it along with Beston's Show and Waiting for

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Speaker 6: Guffman in college in sort of a weekend binge of

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Speaker 6: all three films, and I haven't revisited it since then.

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Speaker 6: In the ensuing years, I think all of this era

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Speaker 6: of guest films kind of just merged into sort of

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Speaker 6: a murky lump of improv comedy. So like, I didn't

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Speaker 6: have very strong memories of it, but I had like

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Speaker 6: strong affection for it because I watched it as part

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Speaker 6: of that collective, and you know, it's a very good

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Speaker 6: trio of films I never did see for your consideration,

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Speaker 6: so I can't speak to how that fits in here.

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Speaker 6: You're okay, that's kind of what I heard better mascots,

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Speaker 6: But yeah, So revisiting it, I was definitely excited to

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Speaker 6: go back to it, and I was a little surprised

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Speaker 6: how kind of not biting it was, Like it felt

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Speaker 6: more gentle than I remembered guest films being from this era.

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Speaker 6: And I'm kind of curious to go back to watch

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Speaker 6: Guffman invest In Show to see if I have that

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Speaker 6: same reaction. But there's still, like so much to like

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Speaker 6: about this film, but I found myself getting really hung

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Speaker 6: up on Mitch and Mickey at the center of it. Like,

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Speaker 6: and maybe this is colored by having recently seen Eugene

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Speaker 6: Leby and Catherine O'Hara in Creek, where they also play

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Speaker 6: a couple that I am just now realizing are named Rose,

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Speaker 6: possibly very probably in tribute to this film. But the

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Speaker 6: performance they give here is just so much well not

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Speaker 6: Levi's performance. It is very not subdued in many ways,

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Speaker 6: but there's just, like again, sort of a gentleness to

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Speaker 6: their relationship, a sweetness to it that feels I don't

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Speaker 6: want to say out of place, but just not kind

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Speaker 6: of what I associate with a lot of guest humor.

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Speaker 6: And I have to say I was not really enamored

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Speaker 6: of Levy's performance here as Mitch. I thought it was

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Speaker 6: a silly voice and you know, big eyes and not

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Speaker 6: a whole lot else, and they are sort of the

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Speaker 6: heart of the movie. So, like I said, I got

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Speaker 6: a little hung up on it. I was not like

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Speaker 6: over the moon for it. I'm sad to say this

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Speaker 6: time around, but like I said, I still have a

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Speaker 6: lot of affection for this film within sort of the

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Speaker 6: trilogy of Guests, this ensemble, I.

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Speaker 5: Would say, you know, I saw it when it came out,

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Speaker 5: and I liked it. I think I remember liking it,

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Speaker 5: but not thinking a tremendous amount about it. It seemed

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Speaker 5: like of those first three movies of Waiting for Guffin,

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Speaker 5: invest In Show and it mighty win that best in

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Speaker 5: Show over the years has gotten the most attention, and

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Speaker 5: certainly the most attention for me. You know, it's very funny,

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Speaker 5: rewatchable film, and I hadn't really felt much of an

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Speaker 5: urgentel you know, being prompted by the show to return

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Speaker 5: to mighty win. But all the things you're saying, Genevieve

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Speaker 5: k things, I ended up really loving about it watching

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Speaker 5: it this second time.

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Speaker 4: Gentle is a good word for it.

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Speaker 5: And I think Guests and company are kind of smart

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Speaker 5: in understanding that they can't approach this world in the

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Speaker 5: way that they could the rock world, and this is

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Speaker 5: spinal tap. And because so the spinal tap is exposing

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Speaker 5: some excesses that are often quite ugly, and to go

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Speaker 5: too far in that direction in the world of folk,

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Speaker 5: which is basically a bunch of my best earnest folkies,

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Speaker 5: would be a little much. And so I think I

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Speaker 5: think the film is really perfectly judged in that respect.

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Speaker 5: And I just, I don't know, I was really moved

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Speaker 5: by it. I was like I was a tear watching

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Speaker 5: this film, like it the payoff of that Mitch Mickey's song.

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Speaker 5: It just it got me, It really did. And I

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Speaker 5: just I found the whole thing to be very warm

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Speaker 5: hearted and well balanced.

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Speaker 4: I liked it.

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Speaker 6: I don't disagree, and I don't want to sound like

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Speaker 6: I didn't like this film. It just wasn't as uproariously

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Speaker 6: funny as I think I was going into it expecting

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Speaker 6: it to be based on the film we're pairing it with,

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Speaker 6: and sort of those you know, muddled memories of these

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Speaker 6: three films taken together.

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Speaker 1: I think you're right, though, because my impression I saw

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Speaker 1: each of these as they came out, and my impression

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Speaker 1: was that each one got like a little more emotional

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Speaker 1: depth to it. I mean, Best in Show. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's not a lot that's gonna leave Scott and tears

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Speaker 1: in that one, but there's a little more going on

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Speaker 1: with characters and William for Kuffman, and this one is

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Speaker 1: deeper still. And I felt like at the time, it

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Speaker 1: feels like the Mitch and Mickey stuff was really kind

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Speaker 1: of daring, like almost like an experiment to see, like

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Speaker 1: can we actually get some moving material in this, like

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Speaker 1: some really heartfelt stuff. And I know Leeby's performance is big,

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Speaker 1: but it reminds me so much of other like rock

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Speaker 1: music casualties. I mean's not that far off from how

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Speaker 1: Brian Wilson actually behaves or or you know, there's not

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Speaker 1: a lot of footage that said Barrett later in life

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Speaker 1: that I know of, but I mean just sort of

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Speaker 1: like the stories you read about say like like I

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Speaker 1: said Barrett or something, this is it kind of tracks

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Speaker 1: with all that as well, and I actually think it

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Speaker 1: really worked too, So I think, you know, push on

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Speaker 1: the Shop, I think Best in Shows is my favorite

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Speaker 1: because I think it's the best balance of characters and

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Speaker 1: really outright funny moments. But I really admire this film.

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Speaker 2: This wasn't my first Christopher Ghost directed film. I saw

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Speaker 2: The Big Picture much earlier than this, but this was

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Speaker 2: actually the first of the sort of improv onsm bole

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Speaker 2: comedies of his that I saw. And I loved this

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Speaker 2: movie so much when I first saw it. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I grew up on folk music. My parents were sixties hippies.

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Speaker 2: We've literally had albums in the house of the Kingston Trio.

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Speaker 2: Like they took me to see Peter pal and Mary

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Speaker 2: Live multiple times when I was a kid.

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Speaker 1: That you have to actually punch a hole in the

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Speaker 1: middle of yourself or you.

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Speaker 2: Know, they would just here wildly.

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Speaker 6: That's maybe my favorite joke in the entire movie.

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Speaker 2: And we definitely have to talk about favorite jokes in

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Speaker 2: the movies because there there are so many, like great

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Speaker 2: one liners, and they're all delivered almost exactly like that,

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Speaker 2: you know, except for a very few of the performers.

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Speaker 2: Everybody has that kind of like over the top foe

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Speaker 2: sincerity and the yes ending of improv, where like no

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Speaker 2: ridiculous statement is too outrageous, and that's that's what I

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Speaker 2: love about this. Like having grown up in this music,

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Speaker 2: I loved the music in this movie. It was exactly

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Speaker 2: I'm not gonna say it was my jam, I guess

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Speaker 2: because you can't really jam to this music.

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Speaker 6: But it was just a huge shows goes pretty hard.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you're gonna get down on the dance floor,

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Speaker 2: it's probably gonna be the skeletons of Quinto. But that's

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Speaker 2: that's his Maybe. I ended up with the album of

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Speaker 2: this and I listened to it over and over and over,

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Speaker 2: like I was utterly addicted to the music, and like

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Speaker 2: I went and saw Waiting for Guffman and Best in

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Speaker 2: Show shortly thereafter, like hoping for something I would connect

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Speaker 2: with in the same way, and I just didn't because

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Speaker 2: I didn't have the same kind of connection of the material.

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Speaker 2: Rewatching it this time, I was actually kind of surprised

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Speaker 2: and disappointed. I think when I first saw it, an

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Speaker 2: awful lot of the really good gags are in the

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Speaker 2: music are just like the surprises of the grimness of

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Speaker 2: skeletons of Quinto or blood blood on the coals, like

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Speaker 2: just ridiculous gag about a guy trying to stop the

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Speaker 2: train and immediately squishes him, or never did No Wandering's

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Speaker 2: line about the railroad man from the West of Hell

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Speaker 2: where trains don't even run, just like all of these

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Speaker 2: ridiculous gags ensconced in music when I was familiar with

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Speaker 2: all the music that didn't pop in quite the same way.

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Speaker 2: And there are some kind of dead spots in this movie.

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Speaker 2: But that said, man, that laugh when Michael Hitchcock is

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Speaker 2: trying to explain stagecraft to a like an increasingly anxious

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Speaker 2: and offended Bob Balloman and he finally just breaks with

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Speaker 2: exasperation and bops him on this on the top of

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Speaker 2: the head, like you just can't beat that. It made

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Speaker 2: me laugh again this time, and then I went back

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Speaker 2: and rewatched it again and it just it made me

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Speaker 2: laugh all over again. Apparently, if you listen to the

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Speaker 2: commentary track the second after that happened, like in the film,

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Speaker 2: you literally get every usable frame of film of that happening,

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Speaker 2: because after that, like the casting crew just completely lost it,

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Speaker 2: so they had to cut it. So my experience. All

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Speaker 2: of this spoils down to my experience. This time didn't

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Speaker 2: live up to my first experience. But like my first

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Speaker 2: experience was just like everybody, everybody here is kind of

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Speaker 2: a genius, except Eugene Levy.

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Speaker 6: I saw you nodding when I was saying that, so

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Speaker 6: I'm looking forward to you agreeing with me here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It just it feels to me like so most of

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Speaker 2: the humor, like I am, I am a humongous nerd,

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Speaker 2: and as such, I'm in a lot of different humongous

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Speaker 2: nerd scenes. And I think the thing that Christopher Guest

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Speaker 2: captures in like all of these improv movies, maybe that's

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Speaker 2: where for your consideration went wrong, is it just doesn't

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Speaker 2: feel like it's capturing a tiny, little insular scene where

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Speaker 2: everybody takes themselves incredibly seriously in the same way best

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Speaker 2: in Show and Waiting for Guffman and a Mighty Wind

355
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Speaker 2: I'll do. But that self seriousness and self importance and

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Speaker 2: inability to see past your own navel is just so

357
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Speaker 2: much a hallmark of like small creative or competitive scenes,

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Speaker 2: and his films nail it so well. So I just

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Speaker 2: I find for instance, Jane Lynch's performance where she's very

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Speaker 2: clearly playing a personality, but she takes herself very seriously,

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Speaker 2: and she's doing something that's comedic, but it's dialed down

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Speaker 2: at the same time. Like, I find that so much

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Speaker 2: funnier than Eugene Levies, like Big Maybe it's Brian Wilson

364
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Speaker 2: I've seen him compared to like later Bob Dylan. There's

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Speaker 2: a bunch of debate about what exactly that accent is

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Speaker 2: that he's supposed to be doing. I just found it distracting.

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Speaker 2: It took me out of a movie that, in an

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Speaker 2: awful lot of ways, was so convincing that a lot

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Speaker 2: of the humor comes out of like whenever they break

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Speaker 2: outside the little mold of plausibility that they're constantly recreating.

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Speaker 2: Just every time something really funny happens, it's because you're

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Speaker 2: kind of being lulled into a sense of mockumentary security

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Speaker 2: and then somebody breaks it. Eugene Levy is like out

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Speaker 2: there on the borderlands the whole time.

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't know, Yeah, that's not how I see.

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Speaker 1: It's like, we have a behind a curtain here. We

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Speaker 1: have a series of questions rtighten now that we're going

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Speaker 1: to discuss on what is I've written out, is there's

379
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Speaker 1: real depth to leave you and no Harris Morrises, does

380
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Speaker 1: that ever threaten to overwhelm the comedy? But I feel

381
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Speaker 1: like we're kind of on a different track, but we

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Speaker 1: can kind of rephrase that, Like, does the fact that

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Speaker 1: there is so much pathos and uh, you know, real

384
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Speaker 1: kind of drama to that relationship however it's played, does

385
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Speaker 1: that ever threaten to overwhelm the comedy for anyone else?

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Speaker 2: It really doesn't for me because I to me, what's

387
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Speaker 2: fun about this movie is that you have three different

388
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Speaker 2: folk bands. They have such different personalities, they have to

389
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Speaker 2: such different musical approaches, they have such different artistic approaches,

390
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Speaker 2: they have such different approaches to rehearsals, and then they

391
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Speaker 2: have differing levels like the New main Street Singers are

392
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Speaker 2: just like the series of surreal jokes and the Folksmen

393
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Speaker 2: actually feel like a working band, and then Mitch and

394
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Speaker 2: Mickey have this like emotional drama. I like that those

395
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Speaker 2: are that radically different and that they're all different tones.

396
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Speaker 2: I think it gives the movie more texture than if

397
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Speaker 2: they try to keep everything super light. It also, he

398
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Speaker 2: feels like it's tapping into a lot of the emotional

399
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Speaker 2: drama of both the music world and just like the

400
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Speaker 2: folk scene.

401
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Speaker 5: I think it's such a confident film in the sense

402
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Speaker 5: that it doesn't push for jokes when they're not there,

403
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Speaker 5: and nothing feels strained about it to me, which is

404
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Speaker 5: a tough thing to pull off an improvisational form because

405
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Speaker 5: it's kind of you know, I think you do always

406
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,359
Speaker 5: kind of want to go for the joke. In this

407
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,680
Speaker 5: film modulates tone so beautifully, and I think that's a

408
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:33,200
Speaker 5: difficult thing to do in this type of improvisational ensemble.

409
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Speaker 5: And I just, you know, I don't know, Yeah, I mean,

410
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Speaker 5: I love the Eugene Levy performance. I love that relationship,

411
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Speaker 5: I love what brings to the movie, and I just

412
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Speaker 5: and the Brian Wilson comparison really hit me because this

413
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Speaker 5: is extra textual. But I spent time with Brian Wilson

414
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Speaker 5: when he was with when he came, I hosted a

415
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Speaker 5: screening with him in Cusack for that biopic what was.

416
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Speaker 4: That called The Brian You're Something on Something Something.

417
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Speaker 5: That's Something Okay. Yeah, So I spent time with Brian

418
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Speaker 5: Wilson and John Cusack when they were touring with Love

419
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Speaker 5: and Mercy did this big event at music Box and

420
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Speaker 5: there was just a lot of time basically during the

421
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Speaker 5: entire film as it was playing, where I was just

422
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Speaker 5: with the two of them, and you know, I mean,

423
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Speaker 5: obviously Brian Wilson is you know, Is had been through

424
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Speaker 5: a lot and couldn't communicate as you would expect me noticeably.

425
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Speaker 5: If you've ever seen him perform, I'm sure it's the

426
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Speaker 5: same way. And you know, I think Lev maybe he

427
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 5: overplays a little bit, but he gives that kind of impression.

428
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Speaker 5: You just get this sense of a such a broken

429
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Speaker 5: person and broken relationship, but also something that can't be helped.

430
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Speaker 5: I mean, you know, I mean there may have been

431
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Speaker 5: a time I mean O'Hara kind of gives you kind

432
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Speaker 5: of fills in certain gaps and that and and kind

433
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Speaker 5: of explains that relationship through her feelings about him kind

434
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Speaker 5: of pulling away or always being at this distance from her, and.

435
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 4: You could see Lev trying to bridge.

436
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 5: That distance as hard as he possible we can, and

437
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,880
Speaker 5: it's it's just nearly impossible for him to do it,

438
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 5: but then he does it, you know, I mean, you know,

439
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 5: you think of the scene towards the end where he

440
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,120
Speaker 5: kind of gets lost and ends up coming back with

441
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,360
Speaker 5: a rose and then and then they complete the number

442
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 5: at the end of the way they're supposed to complete it,

443
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 5: and then that's it. That's the best that he can do,

444
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 5: and it's really the extraordinary that he can do it.

445
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,399
Speaker 5: And the film, you know, sets all that up quite nicely.

446
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,639
Speaker 5: I think, Yeah, I just I love that part of

447
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 5: the movie, Scott.

448
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,640
Speaker 1: I don't want to upstate you, but I I want

449
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 1: sel Brian Willson eating at Denny's.

450
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 5: Really did he eat in a way that was that

451
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 5: was like, hmmm, uh no, not really okay.

452
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 6: I think what I don't want to say what bugs

453
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,439
Speaker 6: me about Levy's performance, but I think what kind of

454
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 6: just like sticks out about it to me is that

455
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:50,439
Speaker 6: it feels like it requires O'Hara to do a lot

456
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 6: of the work to fill in the gaps, and he's

457
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 6: kind of doing this more. I don't I don't want

458
00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 6: to say one note, but like the comedy, yeah, boy,

459
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,159
Speaker 6: it just it does feel like he's kind of like

460
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,399
Speaker 6: comedically speaking. And again I don't disagree that there is

461
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,439
Speaker 6: a lot of pathos in that relationship and that is

462
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 6: its own virtue. But approaching this as a comedy, I

463
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 6: think that what Leeby has committed to doing over and

464
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 6: over again throughout this film. It doesn't give O'Hara a

465
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 6: lot of opportunity to do comedic work of her own.

466
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 6: I feel like she is a little bit of a

467
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 6: support narratively. Like I said, she has to fill in

468
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 6: the gaps of this relationship and she doesn't get to

469
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 6: be particularly funny doing that. And I will freely admit

470
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 6: that this reaction is probably colored by my love of

471
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 6: Shit's Creek and their relationship there, which is very different

472
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 6: from this but is much more on a similar plane

473
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 6: comedically than I think they are here.

474
00:23:57,960 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 1: If we can do a quick podcast within the podcast.

475
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:01,679
Speaker 1: So I started Shit's Creak and I liked it, but

476
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 1: I wasn't quite grooving on it. So is there a

477
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 1: point where it gets really really exceptional.

478
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 6: I'd say second season. At midway through the second season,

479
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 6: once Mutt is no longer around, I think it takes

480
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,160
Speaker 6: a little bit to find its scroove.

481
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 2: But Okay, maybe it's just a point of comparison, But

482
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 2: I mean, some of my favorite stuff in this movie,

483
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,119
Speaker 2: some of my favorite performances in this movie just amount

484
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 2: to like very subtle facial work John Michael Higgins, like

485
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 2: the way he looks strained and trapped whenever Jane Lynch

486
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 2: is talking about her past and porn or maybe bring

487
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 2: up a little too much about their weird color, religion

488
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 2: or whatnot, Like he doesn't stop smiling for the cameras,

489
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 2: but you can just see in his eyes that he's thinking, oh, honey,

490
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 2: please don't like a thing that he's almost too nice

491
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,719
Speaker 2: to think, let alone say. And it's just it's really subtle.

492
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 2: One of my favorite gags in this entire movie is

493
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 2: Don Lake's character, the sibling who hates folk music. They

494
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 2: keep cutting to the audience during the final concert where

495
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 2: all this this folk is going on, and he doesn't

496
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 2: say anything. But every time we look at the audience,

497
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 2: he's impatiently perusing his program or like uncomfortably recrossing his legs.

498
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 2: You can just tell that he's bored out of his

499
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 2: mind and trying to be polite compared to those performances

500
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 2: that are just like so wordless and physical and minor

501
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 2: and drawn in, Like, I just feel like Leevey's too

502
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 2: big for this movie.

503
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 6: Can I tell you? Probably the person who made me

504
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,919
Speaker 6: laugh most in this movie, and she's maybe in it

505
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:45,400
Speaker 6: for three scenes, is Jennifer Coolidge, Because talk about face acting.

506
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 6: Just her being makes me laugh in most movies, but

507
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 6: in this one especially, see she's the.

508
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 2: Other person in this movie that I consider too big

509
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 2: and too sticky. They just like, there's so little her.

510
00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 6: She's just a seasoning.

511
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 2: That's just it. It's a tiny seasoning. And also that

512
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 2: line where she's where she's telling the model trained enthusiast

513
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 2: that it's great that we have the little model trains

514
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 2: because otherwise people would have gotten the ideas for the

515
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 2: big ones like that is that is just a perfect.

516
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 7: Line.

517
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 4: You know.

518
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 2: I don't always love people just playing unbelievably stupid in movies,

519
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 2: but something about her brightness here just makes what could

520
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 2: be just a completely absurdist, pointless line just absolutely saying.

521
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 2: I love the delivery of that line. And it's just

522
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 2: a really good gag.

523
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: Quick aside. I found it's acause of Vulture. But if

524
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: anyone wants to look up Jennifer cool Wich's commencement addressed

525
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: to Emerson College from this year, which she delivers a

526
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: variation on the famous speech from the Count of Monte Cristo,

527
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 1: it is well worth your time.

528
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, oh I forgot, Yes, I love Jennifer Coolidge

529
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 6: I really did love her.

530
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,640
Speaker 5: I like how this whole troupe sticks together from movie

531
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,239
Speaker 5: to movie and there and finds roles for everyone. I mean,

532
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 5: there's no the film could have been just fine without

533
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 5: Fred Willard. But Fred Willard is unbelievably great and funny

534
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 5: in this movie.

535
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 4: And so there's a part for him.

536
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 6: What's his catchphrase?

537
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: I can't remember.

538
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 2: He's got like eight of them, and.

539
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 4: They're happened, What happened? What's the What are some of

540
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 4: the other ones?

541
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 2: I can't do my work.

542
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: Yet, I don't think so in this and Best in

543
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: Show and then when you forgot when I haven't seen

544
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 1: it in a while, but presumably there too. I mean

545
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: he's wait best and sure he comes in and just

546
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 1: find another groove. Yeah, just just like here's another gear

547
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 1: for this movie. But like he's just like the person

548
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: in kind of just be just funny. I mean, just

549
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: there's nothing else like this is. This is someone who's

550
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: just going to kill it every time he opens his mouth,

551
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: and sometimes when he doesn't.

552
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 2: Maybe it just comes down to a recognition thing because

553
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 2: Fred Willard is also playing like a very big, very

554
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 2: over the top, very sticky character here, and I love

555
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 2: every minute of it. But I've just met so many

556
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 2: people exactly like that. I've met promoters, I've met salesman

557
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 2: just that kind of like glad Handing, cannot stop talking

558
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 2: long enough to breathe, let alone to listen to anything

559
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 2: you might say. Thinks he's hilarious but is also kind

560
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 2: of uncomfortable and is simultaneously making just like the worst

561
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 2: most offensive jokes like that exact type of person I

562
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 2: feel like I've met before. And that's part of what

563
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 2: makes him so funny, is that sense of recognition, that

564
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 2: self aggrandizement that comes with a fake humility, that sexual

565
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 2: leering that also comes with like a self effacing like

566
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 2: no offense, ladies, Like every part of the striving against

567
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 2: his own personality that he does is recognizable to me

568
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 2: in a way that the Eugene Levy's character isn't. And

569
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 2: since you guys like spent more time with somebody like that,

570
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 2: or spent more time watching or in the headspace of

571
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 2: somebody like that, maybe it just comes down to Eugene

572
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 2: lev doesn't feel real to me because I haven't encountered

573
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 2: as much of that character, and he does to you

574
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 2: because you have, so.

575
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: We kind of already started down this road, but I

576
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: do want to, like, let's leave Leavy and O'Hara behind.

577
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: Let's let's talk about some of the other favorite performances

578
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: in this film, which is full of them. I always

579
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: Parker Posey. She's so funny in these movies and also

580
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: kind of tragic in this one as well, Like this,

581
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: remember of the perpetually spiling new main street singers. With this,

582
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: you see glimpses of her street kid pass and it's

583
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 1: just I mean, it's sad, but it just being so

584
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: that much funnier too.

585
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 6: I Mean, Bob Balaban is my anxious king. I relate

586
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 6: to him on a deep level. So there's your your recognition.

587
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 6: You were talking about Tasha, but the him opening with

588
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 6: the warning about the low hanging vines and the floral

589
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 6: arrangements and you know, every everything Tasha mentioned about the

590
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 6: stage production sequence, Like I just I feel like Bob

591
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 6: Balaban has for me anyway, the most like laugh out

592
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 6: loud lines in this movie, is it.

593
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 2: Okay to have a representation of a thing next to

594
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 2: an act thing. I don't have time to explain stagecraft

595
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 2: all one to you. Yeah, Bob Balaban, I think more

596
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 2: than any other single player might sum up what's funny

597
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 2: about Christopher Guest movies because he he just so perfectly

598
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 2: nails that that sense of tiny self importance mixed with

599
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 2: like anxiety that you might never get past like whatever

600
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 2: tiny scrap of fame or success you might have. Like

601
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 2: that ineffectual, impotent, like little raging, tyrant kind of character

602
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 2: that he almost always seems to play is just the Again,

603
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 2: maybe there's more to this than I'm thinking about it.

604
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 2: Maybe there's a lot more in Christopher Guest movies that's

605
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 2: just characters that are divided against themselves and have this

606
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 2: kind of like the interior struggle going on. Because John

607
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 2: Michael Higgins's character certainly has that going on, and Parker

608
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 2: Posey's character, I would say does as well, like putting

609
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 2: on this big, bright, perfect girl kind of face when

610
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 2: she's got like all of this sad, depressive past that

611
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 2: she's trying to overcome. But Bob Balliman just kind of

612
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 2: like sums it up. He's he's officious, yet he's ineffectual.

613
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 2: He's he's nervous, yet he wants to be in charge

614
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 2: of everything. It's just there's so much going on in

615
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 2: these like tiny, little, tiny, little grapy characters.

616
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 5: But he also gets like a character defining moment right

617
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 5: away when he talks about playing Polo on shet lid.

618
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 6: The chess helmet, the chess helmet, the.

619
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 4: Chest helmet, exactly right.

620
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 5: Just that's just you're when your parents are really nervous

621
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,719
Speaker 5: that anything at all is going to happen to you.

622
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 5: I think that that is you know, that stays with you,

623
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 5: and that that tells you how the child became the

624
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 5: father of the man.

625
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 4: Yeah.

626
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 5: I there's so many performances, Harry Love, I mean, Willard

627
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 5: is incredible.

628
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 4: Everything he does in the film is funny.

629
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 5: There's a bit in fact that maybe the funniest bit

630
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 5: to me is not necessarily most of it's stuff behind

631
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 5: a desk, but there's this one scene where he just

632
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 5: drifts into He just drifts there.

633
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 4: You don't even expect it to go.

634
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 5: In there, and it's just it's just just seeing him

635
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 5: just like that expression on his face, always kind of

636
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 5: like bright and smiley and kind of dumb, just kind

637
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 5: of floating through the frame.

638
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 4: It's just so good. So he's good.

639
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 5: And and Jane Lynch is somebody who always makes me

640
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 5: laugh a lot, no matter what she does. She's just

641
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 5: really funny. She's funny and uh, party down and in

642
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 5: forty year old version and here, and she just has

643
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 5: this kind of swagger, this confidence that she carries through

644
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 5: her performances, and there's always this kind of like sexual

645
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 5: element to them, and it's just I find it funny

646
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 5: every time. So that's a good performance too. But I really,

647
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 5: you know, it is to say.

648
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 2: In Glee like she was she was in a different

649
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 2: TV show than everybody else in Glee, but she was

650
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 2: always still a high spot, like a bright spot for

651
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 2: that show. Even when they kind of like lost the

652
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 2: plot of her character, like lost the framework for that

653
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 2: show that would have made her character make any sense.

654
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 2: She just kind of came in and did stick that

655
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 2: she was doing and it always worked for me.

656
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: So we've talked least about the folksmen who, Yeah, I.

657
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 2: Want to we were getting there.

658
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 6: I was going to say the same thing, like, I

659
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 6: feel like we're giving short shrift to McKee and Sheer

660
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 6: and guests themselves because they are kind of the comedic

661
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 6: backbone I guess of this.

662
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: I think it's also the most understated element of the film.

663
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: It's really all about them kind of getting to know

664
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: each other again through playing together and like all the things,

665
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: you know, they have no like blow ups, but they're

666
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: all like there are all these like little disagreements on

667
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: change the direction of the band, and it's all like

668
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: kind of very cordial, but there is a little bit

669
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: of tension there and I don't know, there's just those

670
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: three together are just kind of you know, there's a

671
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 1: lot of history there and it's kind of naturally magnetic

672
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: to watch them together. But it's also great to see

673
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: them play. I mean that there are all really good

674
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: musicians and they've really given a lot of thoughts to

675
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: these songs, like how these characters might have you know,

676
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: have lived over the years as well.

677
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 6: Also, Harry Shears Beard is a character onto itself and

678
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 6: its physically uncomfortable to look at.

679
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 2: I just like, how much how much of this movie

680
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 2: was just Beard design.

681
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 4: For and the shrug he gives to at edit Joe's

682
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 4: what he gets.

683
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 5: The when he gets that last last part wrong and

684
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 5: has to kind of give give a little look to

685
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:23,760
Speaker 5: the audience.

686
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 4: It's just it's so it's so.

687
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 2: Funny, and the whole like skeletons of quinto vamping scene

688
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 2: where Mitch's disappeared, and they're they're just trying to like

689
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 2: talk their way out of things, like like they end

690
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 2: up like on a ten minute intro for a song

691
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,439
Speaker 2: they don't actually sing. It's just everything that feels great.

692
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 2: Their relationships just has such a lived in feel. They

693
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 2: all feel like comfortable middle aged dads kind of have

694
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 2: like hanging out in the barbecue on the weekend. There's

695
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 2: a there's a King of the Hill standing behind the

696
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 2: fence in the alleyway drinking beer kind of feeling to

697
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 2: those performances. But at the same time, they do come

698
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 2: across as people who are serious about their music and

699
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 2: serious about their reputation and concerned about the state of

700
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 2: the industry and concerned about other people who are playing

701
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 2: folk in ways that they disapprove of. There's a lot

702
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 2: layered in there, but it really all comes down to

703
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 2: that these records didn't have holes punched in them and

704
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 2: then just teeter around the spindle. Like the dynamic of

705
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 2: that comic scene is just such a perfect encapsulation of

706
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 2: what improv is supposed to be, where they're all just

707
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 2: like yes, handing each other seamlessly like like fluidly, calmly

708
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 2: like oh yeah, no, but they were really good records.

709
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 5: Other than that, it's such a callback to spinal Tap,

710
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 5: to that specific scene of what happens when you know,

711
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 5: the distribution starts to lag and you're not as important,

712
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 5: and you know, it reminds me of Paul Schaeffer and

713
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,320
Speaker 5: as a spinal Tap saying kick my ass, do you

714
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 5: remember that would signing goes horribly ry. It's that kind

715
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 5: of like level where it's just like you've been relegated

716
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 5: to this horrible side label where they don't even punch

717
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 5: holes in the records. That's a good insight into the business,

718
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 5: I think.

719
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 2: I also just really love the car scene where Guest

720
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 2: is talking about how well, yes he has a roadmap,

721
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 2: it's just not in the car, and m Kin is like,

722
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 2: were you were you planning to study it later academically.

723
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 2: There's just there's a sense to their bantery back and

724
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 2: forth that feels very natural, like the exactly how exactly

725
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 2: the kind of thing you get out of like old

726
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 2: friends who have known each other forever but also were

727
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 2: kind of forced together by the circumstances of having done

728
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 2: this project together, and they all still aggravate each other

729
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:49,959
Speaker 2: a little bit, and them.

730
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: Still together, they're they're the you know, there's a turned

731
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: into a semi permanent reunion for them as well. We

732
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: should talk about the final guy, which I think it's

733
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 1: not aged all that well because it's hasn't. Yeah, I know,

734
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 1: Harry Shearer's character has has transitioned into a woman, and

735
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 1: you know, that's kind of the gag in itself. I

736
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: don't think there's any ill intent there, but it kind

737
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: of speaks to how attitudes of an awareness have changed

738
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: so much over the last seventeen years.

739
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess the positive thing about it is that

740
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 2: it's not cheap like they don't they don't use the

741
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 2: tea word, they don't do a bunch of gay panic humor.

742
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 2: They don't like overstate it. But the joke really is

743
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 2: he transitioned like that's that's the one hundred percent of

744
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 2: the gag there, well the.

745
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 4: Other way and then he has a deep voice.

746
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think I think it could have worked better

747
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 6: if it didn't go to the base voice.

748
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 2: Really, because I think if he'd been like trying to

749
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 2: put on a falsetto, it would have been even more

750
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 2: uncomfortable than it already is. And it's pretty uncomfortable.

751
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 6: But I mean, like changing your voice is a big

752
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 6: part of transition for for a lot of trans women

753
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 6: and voice training, and I feel like by doing the

754
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 6: oh he's still doing this deep bass voice, it turns

755
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 6: it into a man in a dress skag instead of yes,

756
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:13,479
Speaker 6: I am a woman or I've always been a woman

757
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 6: and now I'm expressing that, which is kind of the

758
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 6: language and the scene directly before that. So it's just

759
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 6: there's just.

760
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 2: The hint of like a sort of modern awareness about

761
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 2: the language, and the fact that his friends are clearly

762
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 2: uncomfortable but trying to be supportive. You know, they haven't

763
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 2: gotten to a place of acceptance yet, but they're not

764
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 2: being insulting about it. But then the context that it's in,

765
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 2: if nothing else, the fact that it really doesn't go

766
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,959
Speaker 2: anywhere except the visual and the context that it's in

767
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 2: with the same kind of like straight faced you know,

768
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 2: here are my beliefs kind of monologue presentation. It exactly

769
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 2: matches Higgins and Lynch talking about their magical color religion.

770
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 2: I feel like even though sort of the language is

771
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,439
Speaker 2: kind of appropriate language, more appropriate language than you would

772
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 2: expect from something that's dated, it's still being contextualized in

773
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 2: the same sort of way as like, oh, look at

774
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,320
Speaker 2: their wacky beliefs. They put on wizard hats and worship color.

775
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 2: Oh look at his wacky beliefs, like he thinks that

776
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 2: he's a woman. Like if it wasn't for the rest

777
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 2: of that movie, that scene wouldn't plays as mocking because

778
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 2: it's played so in such a straight faced way. But

779
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 2: the movie is mocking so many other things that are

780
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 2: played in that exact same straight faced way, and that's

781
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 2: part of what makes it uncomfortable.

782
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 6: I think also just because it's it's the button, you know,

783
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 6: it's it's the very end. So the assumption is like, oh,

784
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 6: this is a laugh line. We're ending on a laugh,

785
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 6: and therefore the laugh is, Oh, he has a deep voice,

786
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 6: he's a man in address.

787
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,240
Speaker 2: So I think it may be significant that we're all

788
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 2: referring to him as him, right, because I just I

789
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 2: don't think any of us are really accepting the reality

790
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 2: of him as portraying a trans character as opposed to

791
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,439
Speaker 2: doing like a mighty python gag.

792
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: I guess feel like a fully realized or fully thought

793
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 1: through element of the film. But I think again, I

794
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: don't think there's any ill intent behind it, But it

795
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: is an example of how things can look a little

796
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 1: different as as the years go by.

797
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 6: Certainly not the first or last film to go to that.

798
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: Well, all right, well that's the end of the movie.

799
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: We can just make it the end of our discussion.

800
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: But we'll be talking about it more next week when

801
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: we talk about Eurovision Song Contest the story of fire Saga.

802
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after the break with feedback. Now

803
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 1: it's side for feedback when our listeners way in with

804
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 1: their response to recent episodes and anything else in the

805
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: world of film. We went a little off format for

806
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 1: an episode dedicated to Studio Ghibli. Jenny, you've got a

807
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 1: letter about that. You want to share that one?

808
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 6: Sure, Jeff writes, I appreciated your ending comments where you

809
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 6: paid brief tribute to pomp Poco Engrave of the Fireflies.

810
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 6: If I were to guess the Ghibbli films before Western

811
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 6: critics would talk about, they'd be spirited away. Todoro, Mononoke

812
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 6: and Kiki. Sorry to call you out, I don't fault you,

813
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 6: as your listening audience probably needs to hear about one

814
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 6: or more of those staples. But for me it was

815
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 6: refreshing to hear a critic bring up Takahata's lesser discussed gems.

816
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,720
Speaker 6: I submit that Grave is not only Jibli's best film,

817
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 6: but it's arguably the best animated film of all time.

818
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 6: I can count on one hand the number of animated

819
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,280
Speaker 6: movies that stirred both my heart and mind that much.

820
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:27,839
Speaker 6: This brings me to a point which you might weigh

821
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 6: in on. Having lived in Japan, I find it apparent

822
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 6: that Takahatas films are made much more specifically for Japanese audiences.

823
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 6: Not only do they load up on inside cultural references

824
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 6: that are probably not apparent to Western audiences, but the

825
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 6: significance of the behaviors and motivations of the characters are

826
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 6: probably largely much less identifiable and affecting to non Japanese viewers.

827
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 6: Whereas most Amyazaki's films are well known and loved by

828
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 6: Western audiences, which some attribute to the universal appeal of

829
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 6: the films, My question is if it's actually universality the

830
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 6: Western audiences respond to, or if they are unconsciously responding

831
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 6: more to seeing familiar cultural elements reflected back at them.

832
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,800
Speaker 6: Miyazaki's films tend to draw heavily on Western architecture, clothing, style,

833
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 6: story structure, and even his characters facial characteristics. With the

834
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 6: exception of his last film, they could all easily be

835
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 6: European fairy tales, and even The Wind Rises is rather

836
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 6: reverent of Germany. Do you think Western audiences are unconsciously

837
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 6: biased against evaluating Takahattas films fairly? I include myself in

838
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 6: this somewhat. My letterbox list has mostly Miyazaki films at

839
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 6: the top.

840
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 2: I think that there's some truth to that, and I

841
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 2: also admit it's like a little hard for me to

842
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,959
Speaker 2: judge what I'm missing in Takahattas films because I don't

843
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 2: have the cultural knowledge to get the references. Because if

844
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 2: I'm not getting the references, that I don't know that

845
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 2: I'm missing the references. But when we did Gjibli, we

846
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 2: could probably gone. I specifically assigned an animation expert that

847
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 2: I had a lot of respect for to write about

848
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 2: why Takahatas films don't get as much respect and why

849
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 2: they should. That just seemed like a no brainer that

850
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 2: I wanted somebody with a lot of excres variance to explore,

851
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 2: and we talked a lot about it beforehand, and part

852
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 2: of it I'm convinced is just Miyazaki's cover different tones

853
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:14,359
Speaker 2: and somewhat different styles, but there's a commonality between them

854
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 2: in the way they handle fantasy, in the way he

855
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 2: designs his main characters, in the lush backdrops. You have

856
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 2: a little more of a sense of knowing what you're

857
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 2: getting going into a Miyazaki film. Takahato was a relentless experimenter.

858
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 2: You look at Grave of the Fireflies and you see

859
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 2: an early Jibli film. You look at my neighbor they Amadas,

860
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 2: and you see something designed entirely different. You look at

861
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 2: a tailor Princess Cayuga, and you see something again, visually

862
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 2: entirely different. He was playing around, like watch Pompaco and

863
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 2: look at the animation styles shifting radically back and forth

864
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:56,760
Speaker 2: between realism and super cartoony animation. Takahata was just much

865
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 2: more dedicated to playing with the form and playing with style,

866
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 2: and as a result, he didn't have the same kind

867
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 2: of visual or tonal signature that people associate with Miyazaki.

868
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 2: I do think that there's maybe more accessibility in Miyazaki's films, yes,

869
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 2: in part because of the European elements, but also just

870
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 2: because they're fantasy. If you know fairy tales, you can

871
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 2: grasp the basic plot of Spirited Away, even if not

872
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 2: all elements of how a bathhouse is run are familiar.

873
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 2: You can grasp the basic concept of little kids interacting

874
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 2: with fantasy creatures in my Neighbortorto, even if you don't

875
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 2: know about like the trasition of black soots or what

876
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 2: a giant tree festooned with paper garlands means. So I

877
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 2: do think that there are elements of Miyazaki that are

878
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 2: a little harder to grasp for a Western audience, but

879
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 2: an awful lot of them are overruled by kind of

880
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 2: the big bright emotions, and I feel like Takahatas emotions

881
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 2: are also a lot more complicated, a lot in many

882
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,839
Speaker 2: ways richer, and more aimed at adults than a lot

883
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 2: of what Miyazaki does.

884
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, I find it interesting that you Know Disney is

885
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 6: the vector for GIBLI in America for a lot of people,

886
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 6: and the fact that Americans especially associate GIBLI with Miyazaki

887
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 6: specifically the same way that Disney is associated with Walt Disney.

888
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 6: And I think like maybe the idea of a you know,

889
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 6: a single creator is just kind of appealing in terms

890
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 6: of like wrapping your head around any sort of canon

891
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 6: of work. And as we talked about a lot in

892
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 6: that film, like, Miyazaki has a lot of hallmarks that

893
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:44,840
Speaker 6: pop up in all of his films, and I think

894
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 6: that makes it easier for audiences, particularly those who are

895
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,359
Speaker 6: just kind of waiting into to Gibli, to kind of

896
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 6: connect this into a greater hole, you know, which I

897
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,359
Speaker 6: think maybe makes them a little easier to understand as

898
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:03,359
Speaker 6: opposed to the experimentation you're talking about with takahatas and

899
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 6: you know, his films are all very different, and you

900
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 6: would only associate them with Gibli if you are very

901
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 6: well versed in Ghibley to begin with.

902
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 2: If that makes sense, Oh, it makes sense. It wasn't

903
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 2: it just two podcasts ago that somebody asked specifically about

904
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 2: directors who aren't recognized as tours, and Takahada would certainly

905
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 2: fit the bill, like he was an au tour in

906
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 2: the sense that all of his films were characterized by precision.

907
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 2: Miyazaki said that Takahata was like even more of an

908
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 2: obsessive than Miyazaki himself was, which is really saying something.

909
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:43,760
Speaker 2: But they don't have that auturist like easy visible visual

910
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 2: or tonal connection that Miyazaki's films have.

911
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: We also received a really interested in engaging voicemail from

912
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 1: Ben and Houston about our studio Ghibli episode which we

913
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 1: will now play.

914
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 8: Ay next Picture Shows. This is Ben Holus from Houston, Texas,

915
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 8: come in for your Castle in the Sky episode. Really

916
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 8: great episode, really appreciated. One thing I wanted to mention

917
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 8: that you guys didn't seem to know, which is unfortunate

918
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 8: because a lot of people don't seem to know this.

919
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 8: I only discovered it on accident, is that the Capital

920
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 8: in the Sky dub is really the only Disney dub

921
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 8: that really alters the film itself in really unfortunate ways.

922
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:23,919
Speaker 8: Mainly they one age of the characters, but two they

923
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 8: add a bunch of dialogue that is not in the

924
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 8: original film at all. So when Scott was complaining about

925
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 8: it feeling busy or loud, that's unfortunately a case of

926
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:38,399
Speaker 8: the Disney dub. You can compare them and trast them,

927
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 8: particularly in the action scenes. This is where I feel

928
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 8: it is most disastrous. I discovered this from a DVD

929
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 8: I had where I was watching it. I prefer subs

930
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 8: and I was watching it and there was all this

931
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 8: dialogue and I was like, this is no one's talking.

932
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 8: Where's all this film? And I realized it's all from

933
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 8: the English dub. They added all this dialogue because they

934
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 8: thought people would get bored, and it's this very stupid

935
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 8: old idea that kids can't just watch silence. I think

936
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 8: the most of the Disney dubs since have been better,

937
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 8: but for some reason they've never gone back and changed it,

938
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 8: partially because obviously they have a good voice cast and

939
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:16,280
Speaker 8: they don't want to just throw it in the trash.

940
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 8: But it really bothers me that the advantage though, of

941
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 8: the dub is that actually the score was increased. The

942
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 8: original score was only about thirty minutes, and they made

943
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 8: it a full ninety minute score. So some people have

944
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 8: actually combined the too. They have the original subversion but

945
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 8: with the extended score, which is really quite cool. But

946
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 8: UFORTI obviously not available on h GOMX. So I was

947
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 8: always a sub only person for a long time, but

948
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 8: now that I date someone who is dyslexic and has

949
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 8: a very tough time for him to read subtitles, we

950
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:56,800
Speaker 8: watch a lot of dubs and I think most of

951
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 8: them are pretty good, But that is the one I

952
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:03,279
Speaker 8: have to say. Please please watch it subtitled if you can,

953
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 8: because it is a real unfortunate choice, and I think

954
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 8: the movie works so so much better in the subtitled form,

955
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 8: and so I don't want to say, Scott, watch it

956
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,320
Speaker 8: again right now, but maybe at some point watch it

957
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 8: again subtitled because I think it plays so much better.

958
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 8: So thank you for doing this. Oh and well, last thing,

959
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:29,800
Speaker 8: if you get the chance, google the Warriors of the Wind.

960
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 8: I believe that it's called. This is the first ever

961
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,839
Speaker 8: dubbed Miyazaki film. It was a dove of NAUSICAA and

962
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,839
Speaker 8: it was horrendous and it has maybe the funniest misleading

963
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:42,720
Speaker 8: cover I've ever seen. Cratty Beaches filmed.

964
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 2: I thought we had mentioned Warriors of the Wind in passing. Honestly,

965
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 2: that week I recorded two different podcasts about Studio Ghiblia,

966
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 2: and I wrote and edited a ton about it, and

967
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 2: it's all blurred together. But I was always really sad

968
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 2: that I didn't see Warriors in the Wind, because I

969
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 2: spent most of my early like Jibli discovering years, reading

970
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 2: rants about how terrible it was. The rewrite, the cuts,

971
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 2: the complete mangling of the story, and I'm still very curious.

972
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:16,879
Speaker 2: That said. I had never really like looked carefully at

973
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,919
Speaker 2: the poster or box of the art until somebody wrote

974
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 2: about it for us and I went in and looked

975
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 2: at it, and it's fabulous. I highly recommend looking it up.

976
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,280
Speaker 2: It's got a like a murderous robot and a bunch

977
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 2: of male badasses, none of whom are in the film, Like,

978
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 2: none of these characters actually exist in any way in

979
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:40,359
Speaker 2: the movie. And then Naska herself, who appears to be

980
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 2: maybe just on the cuffs of puberty in the film,

981
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 2: is presented as this like I don't know, like mid twenties,

982
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 2: like very busty woman in a very short skirt off

983
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 2: in the background. It's hilarious. I mean, I'd be mad

984
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 2: if I rented the movie expecting that movie and got

985
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 2: what it was actually in there instead. But like, looking

986
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 2: back on it from the safe place of knowing the

987
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 2: original film, that is a fantastically hilarious cover.

988
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 6: Scott, what do you think are you going to go

989
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 6: back and revisit I.

990
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 5: Definitely feel like what is BENNI is saying is making

991
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 5: me think that I missed out on the experience that

992
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 5: I wanted from the movie, which did seem very busy

993
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,319
Speaker 5: and loud, and the stuff that I loved in the

994
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 5: film of the silences and just kind of the quieter sequences,

995
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 5: which is what I respond to in Miyazaki's work in general.

996
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 4: So I'd like to do it.

997
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 5: I think it's been all dubs over subs for me

998
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 5: because I've been watching these films with my children and

999
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,800
Speaker 5: so they would rather hear the voices than read subtitles,

1000
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 5: and need to getting them into subtitles is going to

1001
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:56,879
Speaker 5: be a process, and I'm not quite ready to start

1002
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 5: that process.

1003
00:51:57,560 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 6: So force them. They'll love it. Kids love to be

1004
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 6: for Just.

1005
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 5: Start with it. Yeah, we'll start with Wings of Desire,

1006
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 5: I think, I said, so, Yeah, I don't. I'm encouraged

1007
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 5: that there's a version of this film out there that

1008
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:12,720
Speaker 5: I might appreciate more. And the more we discussed Tassel

1009
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 5: in the Sky and the more I felt like I

1010
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 5: probably missed the boat a bit on it because you

1011
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 5: all liked it so much, and you know, it's kind

1012
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 5: of made me doubt my own reaction to it.

1013
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 2: Did you watch it on HBO or did HBO d

1014
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 2: I needed to I need to go back. I didn't.

1015
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:33,319
Speaker 2: I watched on a physical DVD that I actually had

1016
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 2: from when it came out via Disney, and I had

1017
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 2: just assumed that the version on HBO Max was going

1018
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:41,759
Speaker 2: to be a G Kid's redub. So if it's if

1019
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 2: it's the Disney version, I'm actually a little surprised at that.

1020
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:46,439
Speaker 5: No, I think it may be the G I didn't

1021
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:47,760
Speaker 5: know there was a G Kids redub.

1022
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 2: I as I say, I'm assuming that I know about that,

1023
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 2: I don't know for a fact that it won't even exist. Yeah,

1024
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:59,760
Speaker 2: typically though they did their own translations and their own dubs,

1025
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 2: it was just sort of part of their kind of

1026
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 2: commitment to doing it right, which as opposed to Disney's

1027
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 2: commitment to doing it whatever way they thought would make

1028
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 2: the most money. But yeah, I actually like watching the

1029
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 2: Disney version. I had the subtitles for the dub on

1030
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:22,839
Speaker 2: and then was like like listening to the It's It's weird.

1031
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,279
Speaker 2: I was watching the subtitles for the dub version, the

1032
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 2: dubscript and listening to the Japanese version, so it was

1033
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 2: very clear when there was a lot of dialogue going

1034
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 2: on and they're like nobody's mouth was moving, and there

1035
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:38,240
Speaker 2: is quite a lot of it in the film. It's

1036
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 2: jarring to be honest.

1037
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 1: So I guess our conclusion is there's no wrong way

1038
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 1: to watch Castle in the Sky, but some ways are

1039
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:48,440
Speaker 1: more right than others. Okay, well, we always appreciate it

1040
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:50,799
Speaker 1: when our listeners share their thoughts and their recommendations. If

1041
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 1: you feel so inclined, we may feature your response in

1042
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:54,840
Speaker 1: a future episode. To reach us, you can leave a

1043
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:57,919
Speaker 1: short voicemail at seven seven three two three four nine

1044
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 1: seven three zero, or email us comments at Next Pictures

1045
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 1: Show dot Net. That's it for this episode of the

1046
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 1: Next Picture Show. In our next episode, we'll consider the

1047
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:14,759
Speaker 1: hopes and dreams of a musical act trying to make

1048
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 1: it big against some stiff competition from far and wide

1049
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 1: when we discuss Eurovision Song Contest the story of Firesaka.

1050
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:25,280
Speaker 1: Look for that episode next Tuesday, or, better yet, subscribe

1051
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 1: to The Next Picture Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or

1052
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 1: your podcaster of choice. You and better still, you can

1053
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,879
Speaker 1: support us on Patreon at Patreon dot com slash Next

1054
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 1: Picture Show, find us at Next Pictures Show dot net,

1055
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 1: follow us at Facebook dot com slash Next Picture Show,

1056
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 1: and follow us on Twitter at at Next Picture pod

1057
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 1: so you'll always know what a new episode drops. Until then,

1058
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 1: we're going to spend some time witnessing the awesome and

1059
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:50,760
Speaker 1: vibratory power of color.

1060
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:00,400
Speaker 7: Na