WEBVTT - Is Chivalry Dead? 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:06.840 Hey, that folks in this episode, is chivalry dead? If 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:11.719 it's not, should it be? But if chivalry is dead, 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:16.000 should we resurrect it right here, right now in this 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:19.119 episode of Amy and TJ. And with that, welcome to 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:22.040 this episode of Amy and TJ Robes. I will start 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:24.520 with the question we will get We're gonna deep dive 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:28.560 into this. But generally speaking, if you're asked the question, Robock, 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:30.840 is chivalry dead? What is your answer? 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:36.000 I would say yes, by and large, yes, especially here 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:39.240 in New York City. I know, having lived in the South, 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:45.080 in the Midwest, and living up north, there are big 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:49.600 differences in how men and women relate and act with 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:50.600 and toward. 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:50.640 One of them. 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:52.159 Wait minute, So you're saying it's not dead. 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:53.960 In the South, not as much. 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:58.280 It's dying maybe with the younger generations, but it's not dead. 0:00:58.360 --> 0:00:59.440 Is it dead in New York City? 0:00:59.480 --> 0:00:59.880 An? 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:01.040 What? 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:05.840 That is a strong indictment of the men of New York. Y'all, 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:08.919 hear what she's saying about you, That chivalry is dead 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:11.120 in New York. Yes, I have said, I'm looking at 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:13.720 your pha You're not I'm not playing. I'm not playing. 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:17.200 No, I've lived here for more than twenty years and 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:21.240 it's still shocking to me at how dead it is. 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:24.720 Let's give some context here. When we're generally talking about chivalry, 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:26.520 what are we talking about. 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:30.120 We are talking about basic things, okay. 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:31.360 And I'm not talking we want to make sure we're 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:33.160 not talking about chivalry and taking care of a woman 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:35.200 like a sugar daddy type. That ain't chivalry. We're talking 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:37.960 about gestures that often that don't always have to be 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:41.360 romantic gesture. You can be chivalrous to your mother or 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:42.440 some stranger on the street. 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:44.880 And also, let us preface it with this. 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.640 I am of a certain generation and age where it's 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:52.920 maybe it could go fifty to fifty. Not everyone appreciates chivalry. 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:58.320 Some people are offended by it. I actually appreciate it. 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:00.600 But we're talking about when a man opens a door 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:04.200 for you, a car door, a restaurant door. You know, 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:06.840 trying you've got bags, you're juggling things, you're trying to 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:09.040 get into a Dwayne read someone opens the door for you. 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:12.359 Someone who offers to pay for the meal. 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:13.960 There's a big one. 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:15.400 Yes, it is. 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:21.640 Walks on the outside. So a man to be chivalrous 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:23.800 will walk on the side of the street where the 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:27.359 traffic is so as to to be basically a barrier 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:33.360 for anything from splashing mud to a swerving car. Offers 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:36.040 a woman his jacket if you're cold, May I offer 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:39.160 you your jacket, my jacket for you. That's a big 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:40.440 one when it's cold outside. 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.160 Lets women get off and on the. 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:47.160 Elevator first, or the subway first, or just into a 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:50.400 room first, giving up your seat on the subway, a 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:55.040 crowded bus, a crowded train, stuff correct carry her bags 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:57.400 for her. So I've got these heavy shopping bags or 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:00.960 a heavy offering to take that. Also when you're getting 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:05.080 on a plane, offering to help put or get those 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:08.240 heavy bags up in the overheart head compartment. To me, 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:11.000 those are all like things that I would consider chivalry. 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:13.040 Or are you saying, though you listed a bunch of 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:16.920 things that sound like common sense, common courtesy, I should 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:19.320 say you're telling me the men of New York, generally speaking, 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:20.200 don't do those things. 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:22.760 They are not common No, And in fact, I remember 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:28.960 specifically juggling strollers, babies and biorns being pregnant, and the 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:30.959 only people who did any of those things for me 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:31.720 were other women. 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:34.120 Okay, but is that a New York thing? To where 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.480 we get conditioned here in New York too, And I 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:39.600 will speak on this in a second. Men here are 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:42.600 conditioned to woman doesn't want to be bothered. She can 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:44.800 do her thing, I know, not to bother. She doesn't 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:47.080 need my help, she doesn't want my help. So they're 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:49.560 conditioned now to not do those things. Is that possible? 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:50.640 That's entirely possible. 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:53.120 But I would also say that I think it's just 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:58.360 not valued as much here. I don't think it even 0:03:58.360 --> 0:03:59.840 would be received as well here. 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:02.840 Wow, Okay, this is all coming out. We're talking about 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:06.200 it now. You and I got into a conversation, a debate. 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:10.240 I would even argue, we're talking about Trump's choice for 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:15.000 Defense Secretary, Hexseth, who was a former Fox News host. 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:16.800 A lot of controversy about him for a whole bunch 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:19.520 of reasons, but one of the things that was talked 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:23.520 about is in him saying that men or women should 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:28.279 not serve in frontline combat positions alongside men. He had 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:32.360 all reasons for this, but it got us talking a 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:37.840 little more a little deeper about equality and this idea 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:42.200 that you are treating women as a fairer or quote 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:45.880 unquote weaker sex that needs to be protected. And this 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:50.599 all kind of flowed into a conversation between us about 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:55.760 what chivalry. It's nice, and it might be a nice gesture, 0:04:56.040 --> 0:05:01.400 but does it perpetuate an ongoing inequality between men and 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:04.479 women and in women? Is it perpetuating a notion of 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:08.240 gender norms and where we should be even though I 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:10.280 think I'm doing a nice thing by opening the door. 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:14.440 Yes, So this is a big question mark, and I 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:20.320 think people and women have varying responses to that. And 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:26.279 I think I came up where I was the only 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:30.520 woman among my friend group in the nineties who were 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:32.440 getting married. Who chose, and this is when I was 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:34.960 living in the South, chose not to take my husband's 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:35.640 last name. Why. 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:40.279 I didn't want to lose part of who I was. 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:42.520 I would you though, just because you lose a last name. 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:46.600 Because I prided myself on being Amy Roboch and so 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.160 I wanted to stay Amy Robick. And just because I 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:51.840 went into partnership or into a marriage with someone else 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:54.159 didn't mean that I had to assume someone else's last 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:57.640 name or identity for us to be a partnership. 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:01.080 So I felt strongly about that. Also, I also just. 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:04.400 Felt like it was part of being someone's property. Back 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:07.239 in the day, it was though women didn't have rights. 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:09.960 Women couldn't vote, they couldn't own property, they didn't have 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.839 a say in a lot of things. They couldn't enter 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:16.680 into a contract. So I just felt like all of that, 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:19.640 for all of those reasons, I didn't want to make 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.040 it that deep. I just really from the time I 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:24.560 was eleven years old, I remember thinking, I'm not going 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:25.520 to change my name. 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:26.760 Why would I change my name? 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:29.400 And so that was maybe the big feminist gesture that 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:33.240 I chose. 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:35.719 To enact when I was in my early twenties. 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:39.360 And when I did that, I also struggled because then 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:42.000 I was told by people, Well, if you're going to 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:45.120 take that track and you're going to not take your 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:47.800 husband's last name, if you're going to be the breadwinner, 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:51.120 if you're going to ask that your family move for 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:55.640 your job, well then you can't also assume or ask 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:58.320 or want a man to open a door for you. 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:02.799 Well, some things here, because you talk about you taking 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.159 somebody's last name and you being a breadwinner should not 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.680 be connected. You could you could whether the breadwinner or 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:10.400 not should not be a part of this conversation. 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:12.760 Is it I agree with you, But I was told 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:15.560 by many people and men included, that if I was 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:18.680 going to take that track, that I couldn't then also 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:21.800 have this expectation that somebody was going to take care 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:24.440 of me in another gesture, in another way, that if 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:26.800 I was going down that road, then I needed to 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:29.320 go down that road by myself and take care of 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.400 myself and have zero expectations that a man should do 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:35.520 anything above and beyond for me that I could technically 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:36.239 do it for myself. 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:38.800 Again, we mud eat the waters way earlier than I 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:40.320 thought we were going to here. 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:43.280 I am telling you I wasn't. I was actually a 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:46.520 little wounded by that. But I accepted it and said, Okay, 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:49.760 what by the thought that I couldn't, that I couldn't 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.520 be a strong, powerful, independent woman and at the same 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:57.280 time appreciate like and want a man to also do 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:00.760 some of those I think very beautiful or give me 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:03.040 some of those beautiful gestures that I appreciate, And. 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:04.559 That is where it would make me feel loved. 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:06.760 But that is where people will say, you can't have 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:09.560 it both ways. Okay, do you think you can can 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:14.400 a strong, powerful woman who is pushing for equality, who 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:18.320 is pushing to for that for us all to see 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:21.680 women as absolute equals. Man. Woman, you can do it, 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:22.640 I can do it. I don't need you to pay 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:24.000 for my meal. I don't need you to open my door. 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:26.440 I don't need your coat, don't I don't need anything. 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:31.240 Can you not accept those gestures but at the same 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:36.520 time be promoting strength, equality and capability of women. 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:37.800 I believe you can. 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:39.960 But it took me a while to get there because 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:42.480 I felt like I was asking for too much, because 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:44.520 I was told I was asking for too much, that 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:45.800 I couldn't have it both ways. 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:49.240 I try you asking for to door. 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:50.480 It doesn't seem like a stretch. 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:51.400 I agree with you. 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:54.000 I agree with you, but I think that you know, 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:57.000 in a way, for some men, it might be threatening 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:01.880 or frustrating, like, oh, oh, you're not going to stay home, 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.320 You're not going to take a beta role. 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:06.200 You're not. But ye, at the same time, you want 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:07.559 me to do this for you and that. 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:09.920 For you, And I just feel like I kind of 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:14.080 assumed I shouldn't so, But I truly believe I not 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:16.600 every woman. Probably a lot of women won't agree with me, 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:20.160 but I do believe there are differences in genders for 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:24.320 the most part, we do have things that biologically we 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:27.440 are probably not in all cases, but in a lot 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:30.480 of cases more predisposed to be good at. It doesn't 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:34.440 take away from my ability to put my own bag up, 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:36.160 or to carry my own bag, or to open my 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.840 own door, to have a man do it for me. 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:44.679 I consider that to be something beautiful. I appreciate it. 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:48.800 I think it's a wonderful gesture that someone is there 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:53.000 who is bigger and stronger than me in most instances, 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:55.240 who's just saying, hey, let me get that for you. 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:58.160 I don't take offense to that. I appreciate it. 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:06.000 Okay, you are the problem Robes, according to many women, 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:10.120 because in wanting that and accepting that what you're doing 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:18.280 are perpetuating the notion of benevolent sexism. Benevolent sexism as 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:20.880 some of you may be familiar, We weren't. We had 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:22.520 to do a little bit of a deeper dive. But 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.719 this is the idea of benevolent sexism. Yes, you might 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:29.000 have good intentions, Yes you may be well meaning, but 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:33.800 what you are doing is reinforcing traditional gender roles and 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:39.960 maintaining male dominance. Yes, Robes, you by wanting or appreciating 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:44.920 or even yes, expecting that you are holding women down. Robes. 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:46.920 Well, I don't expect it, I can say that, but 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:47.599 I appreciate it. 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:48.839 I thought you were going to jump on the part 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:50.080 of course you're not holding women down. 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:53.920 I thought that was the and I, well, yes, so 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:54.640 here's the deal. 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:58.640 I actually feel like it, maybe because I've lived enough 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:02.360 life and I have had wonderful opportunities that other women 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:06.520 who've paved the way have helped at least me get 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.760 to where I've gotten in my life professionally, but I 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:12.600 have nothing to prove like. I know I can do 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:16.640 those things, but it doesn't mean that I don't appreciate 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:20.440 someone else coming in and helping me. It makes I 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:23.120 do feel loved. I do feel protected. Is it wrong 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:27.319 for a woman to enjoy feeling protected? Is it wrong 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:30.160 for a woman to enjoy feeling taken care of? 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:32.920 Even though I can take care of myself and I 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:34.400 have been taken care of myself. 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:38.360 Hey, yes, different opinions on these things. But I asked 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:41.840 the question of about how the question of how does 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.720 a woman feel? How does everybody listening? How does it 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:46.600 make you feel when a man, maybe he's a stranger, 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:48.600 maybe it's somebody you're dating opens a door for you. 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:50.760 I love it. Feel does it make you feel when 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:53.520 you're on the first or second or whatever date and 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:55.120 the guy pays? How does that make you feel? 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:56.520 I appreciate it? 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:58.160 Okay. How you feel when the guy walks on the 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:01.960 outside the sidewalk that you're on? I love it, opens 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.760 the car door, give you a jacket when he's cold. 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:06.880 I love that when you're cold, Right, all of that, 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:10.280 you love all of that. So on the other side 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:13.640 of that, how do you feel when a man doesn't 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:15.600 open the door? How do you feel when a man 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:18.040 doesn't offer to pay for the meal? How do you 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:20.800 feel when a guy doesn't pull out his umbrella and 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:22.600 make sure you're under it when it's raining. How do 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:25.040 you feel when a guy doesn't do those things? Do 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:27.760 you look at him and you think what's wrong with you? 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:27.959 No? 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:32.280 I don't, especially I think after having, like I said, 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:35.000 I lived in New York City, I think initially maybe 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:36.240 I did feel that a little bit. 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:38.000 You've gotten trained not to expect it. 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:39.480 Yes, that's unfortunate, Yes I have. 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:41.680 And you look, my dad did all of those things, 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:44.720 so it might be different with your experience growing up. 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:46.840 But my dad did those things for me and I 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:50.840 appreciated it. And he also taught me how to balance 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:54.040 my own checkbook. He also taught me how to pay 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:56.520 my own taxes. He, you know, he and my mom 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:58.360 you know, was a part of those conversations as well. 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:01.360 But so I do think that I think both things 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:06.400 can exist, and it doesn't mean anything negative. I think 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:08.319 it's how we view it and how we look at it. 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:12.320 And the least of my problems is a man opening 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:15.480 the door for me. That is the least of my 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:18.040 problems as a woman, and it probably takes away if 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:22.960 you and so I find it interesting. I get it 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:26.840 that women complain about that are offended by that, but 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:30.560 I just don't think that men, in doing so are saying, Hey, 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:33.680 you weak ass woman who can't open her own door, 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:35.920 let me do this for you. I just really think 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:38.480 it's a matter of being polite, a matter of being 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:42.760 a gentleman. I appreciate a gentleman, and I don't understand 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:46.000 why we can't appreciate those gestures, those moments of chivalry 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:48.480 and at the same time have that not take away 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.240 from our own power. I don't need you to do it, 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:53.720 and I wouldn't expect you to do it, but I 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:54.760 really like it. 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:55.200 When you do. 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:58.720 All right, Well, that expectation is always a key here, 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:03.280 but I have obviously, I'm born raised in the South, 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:06.719 my mother father, both of them from the Delta, Arkansas. 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:08.720 From the moment, and we talked about this, from the 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:14.439 moment I was physically able, my mother did not open 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.200 another door for herself. Right. She would walk up to 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:20.280 a store, the front door of a store, and just 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:23.240 stand there and look at me. You're forgetting something. I 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:26.320 was three years old when I was physically able to 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:29.040 open a door. I was trained, and all of my 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.680 thinking now I was thinking about stories of my life. 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:34.560 All of my training as a gentleman or doing those 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.880 chivalrous things came from my mother. No offense, Pops. I'm 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:40.920 not saying you didn't teach me anything. But my mom 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:44.680 was on it and trained me from birth to do 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:47.720 these things. And so I get Yes, it happened in 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:49.760 New York. I remember traveling a line from Atlanta to 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:52.120 New York and run into people in the airport and 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:55.600 I would say, I would try to hold a woman's 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:59.720 bag open the door. God forbid, you say yes, ma'am, no, ma'am. 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:03.480 But I have absolutely been not quite yelled at, but 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:06.640 gotten onto by women like how dare you? I got 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:08.760 my door? I don't need you for this, I don't 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:11.480 need you for that. And it was I was really 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:15.240 taken aback by that idea of doing these aren't women. 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:18.200 There's just a random lady in the airport. This is 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:21.040 not somebody I'm trying to take out on the date. 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:24.040 I'm not out, but I was. I was taken aback. 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:28.120 So to your point of you've gotten accustomed to that, 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:31.600 because now I've gotten accustomed to already getting out of 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:33.440 the training that my mama gave me. Right. 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:36.960 But the good news is we're perfect together on this 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:41.400 because you were trained to do it, and I am 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:44.920 so appreciative of you doing it because it's been lacking 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:47.040 for two decades. 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:50.880 This is one of the areas that we really really 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:51.640 are vibing. 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:55.120 I really don't know any better, So I am. I 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:57.720 am fascinated by this conversation, which is going to continue. 0:15:57.720 --> 0:15:59.040 So for a lot of us, we don't even know 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:03.160 where this comes from. This idea of women and children first, right, 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:05.520 this idea that for some reason we're supposed to make 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:07.480 sure women go first, or they are the first to 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:09.440 get off the ship. But we gotta save the women first. 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:13.520 This is an idea that experts say, or at least 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:16.240 the historian say, goes back to the eighteen hundreds on 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.120 a particular ship. We're gonna get into the details of 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:22.240 where this comes from in the first place. Stick with 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:24.600 us here, folks, we're going to be right back here 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:37.720 on Amy and TJ. All right, we continue here on 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:42.640 Amy and TJ having a discussion about benevolent sexism. Yes, fellas, 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:45.480 you think you're doing a nice thing and a sweet 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:47.840 gesture by opening the door, being chivalrous, but a lot 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.640 of people think that's just perpetuating old gender norms and 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:54.240 ideas that women are the fairer or weaker sex. So 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:56.600 even though you're trying to do a nice thing, it 0:16:56.720 --> 0:17:03.000 ultimately is keeping women back. I with you, Well, we've 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:06.080 been friends for ten years, but before we were ever 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:08.720 in a relationship, you and I went out alive or 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:10.760 drinks or have a go, have a lunch or something 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:14.280 here and there. There is not a single point in 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.879 our relationship, including now that I've known you, not in 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:22.800 friendship relationship. That's not a single point that you didn't 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:26.199 make more money than me, and at some points it 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:31.560 was significantly more money than me. Yet every time we 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:33.760 went out, who was picking up the bill? 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:34.640 You were? 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:39.480 But I also offered and a couple of times tried 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:41.800 to venmo you and that didn't go well, We're going 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:43.920 to go well, And you would always just say it 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:48.720 all evens out in the end, and look, I actually 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:51.560 I don't think anybody likes to feel like they owe 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:56.119 somebody something. But we had enough of a friendship where 0:17:57.400 --> 0:17:59.919 I guess eventually now maybe it has even out, but I. 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:02.639 Some it hasn't. 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:03.600 But I'm okay with that. 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.000 No, we ahead shot. 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:14.640 But I think some some women don't appreciate the feeling 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:20.320 that somehow now they owe something, and that's something that 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:23.640 we put on ourselves. And so I would just ask, 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:27.159 you know, I would never demonize somebody who is willing 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:27.840 to pay. 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:29.280 Especially when there's zero expects. 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:32.240 Now, if there's an expectation attached to paying for it, 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:34.560 that is a whole other issue. But that was never 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:38.520 the case. You're the only man I know in my 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:43.480 life that I can recall who has always consistently insisted 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:44.720 on paying no matter what. 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:47.800 You can. You can go ask any friend of mine, 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:52.480 amy female friend of mine. This has been the case 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:56.359 forever we go out, and I just it's an automatic. 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:59.160 The guy pays. Now, a lot of people hear that, Okay, 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:01.840 that's ridiculous if your friends, and that's fine. But in 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:04.840 my mind and my mindset, the way I've always been trained, 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:09.560 that's what should happen. But these days, how is that 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:11.600 view these days for people when they go out, when 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:14.600 they first date, second date, third date? Who if the 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:17.160 guy pays, is it an automatic? Does the woman expect it? 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.399 What happens now? I'm looking at the younger folks that 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:22.800 have in our own I actually don't know what the 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:23.520 expectation is. 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:27.560 Celia and Andy are here, and I can only base 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:30.080 this off of some of the dating shows I've been watching. 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:32.360 And I told you I was really shocked because I'm 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.359 watching the new Love is Blind here in the US, 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:39.639 and this one woman as she's in the pods talking 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:44.440 to potential suitors or potential husbands, making it very clear 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:47.360 that she wants to be taken care of, and that 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:50.480 she doesn't want it to be fifty to fifty, and 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:53.239 that she likes a masculine male and she wants to 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:57.840 be and everyone was shocked, like jaw dropping, like they 0:19:57.880 --> 0:19:59.240 were like, this does not happen. 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:03.000 It's She's that was different. But I think she is 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:03.720 an outlier. 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:06.280 But Celia, I'll ask you, like, what do you think 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:08.520 about who pays for what on dates? 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:13.159 I think it definitely depends on the longevity of the relationship. 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:17.040 I think if it's a first date, you kind of 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:19.439 reach for your like you reach in your purse like 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:25.240 you're about to pay, Like you know, I'm not grabbing anything. 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:25.800 But you're hoping that he's gonna pay. 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:28.960 Yeah, I'm just pretending like I'm going to but I'm not. 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:33.359