WEBVTT - #110 Jason Flom with Patrick Pursley (Live from ComplexCon Chicago 2019) 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.000 At ten pm on a snowy April second, nineteen ninety three, 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:10.000 twenty two year old Andrew Asher and Becky George sat 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:12.000 in a parked car in front of her brother's apartment 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:14.280 on Silent Road in Rockford, Illinois. 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:15.760 A black man. 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:17.800 Approached the car and a blue ski mask and a hoodie, 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:20.160 and he opened the driver's side door, announcing a stick up. 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:22.680 While Becky fished around in her purse and tried to 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:24.920 offer the gunman the sixty dollars she had, he shot 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:28.319 Andrew Asher twice. Becky ran to her brother's apartment to 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:30.920 call the police, and the two bullets and their casings 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:33.760 were retrieved from the crime scene and during the autopsy. 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:37.479 Through the use of incentivized eyewitness testimony, the coercion of 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:41.200 a false confession, and grand jury testimony from Patrick Persley's girlfriend, 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:45.280 Samantha Crabtree, testimony she later recanted a trial, and conflicting 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:49.400 and misleading ballistics expert testimony. Patrick was convicted of first 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:54.080 degree murder and sentenced to life without parole, with an 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.720 epic appeals process that included Patrick getting a law change 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:00.720 from prison in order to get new BAE listics testing 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:04.360 done that would ultimately set him free. Patrick Parsley suffered 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:08.000 for over twenty five years for a crime he simply 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:13.400 didn't commit. In March twenty seventeen, Patrick's conviction was finally. 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:15.000 Vacated and he was released on bond. 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:18.840 He was formally acquitted at his retrial on January sixteenth, 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:31.520 twenty nineteen. This is Wrongful Conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:35.800 This episode was recorded at Complex Con Chicago twenty nineteen, 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:39.040 a culture, fashion, art and music hybrid event described as 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:42.880 a streetwear fans kind of world's fair featuring limited edition 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:46.720 brand collaborations, performances, and even the occasional live podcast recording 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:49.480 like this one. We only had thirty minutes though, to 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:51.960 tell Patrick's story, so I'll be fleshing out some of 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:56.000 the details along the way. Patrick Persley, this is going 0:01:56.080 --> 0:02:00.400 to be extraordinary, because Franklin, doesn't you, Because Pat is 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:02.080 my new friend. I've just gotten to know him, his 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:06.240 unbelievable spirit and intellect. But Patrick, I want to say 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:08.440 that I'm happy you're here. I'm sorry you're here because 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:10.959 you should never even have to be having this conversation. 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:13.800 But I'm happier here, and your case has so many 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:16.360 of the hallmarks, so many of the common factors that 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:19.400 we see in rawful convictions over and over again. You 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:25.440 had incentivized lying witnesses, yes, coerced threatened witnesses. You had 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:27.960 bad ballistics, terrible ballistics. 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:28.200 Right. 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.959 You had people in positions of authority who broke rules, 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:35.400 broke laws in order to railroad you. Tunnel vision is 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:37.520 another factor, right, And by tunnel vision, what I mean 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:41.560 by that is once a suspect is identified. In many cases, 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:45.680 we see that the police and prosecutors start to build 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:49.000 a narrative, either consciously or subconsciously, and they managed to 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:52.480 ignore or they subconsciously ignore evidence that points. 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:53.440 Away as they sated. 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:58.000 In your case, Yes, I'll term to suspects crime scene evidence, clothing, everything, 0:02:58.040 --> 0:02:59.200 everything was contradicted. 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:03.760 Patrick Pursley was ronflely convicted of a brutal crime, a 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:06.959 robbery of two people in a car where the robber 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:10.320 shot the guy sitting in the car twice and ran 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:14.519 and then things went downhill from. 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:15.720 There very quickly. 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:20.240 And Patrick, this was Rockford, Illinois. But you didn't know 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:21.760 the people, You didn't know anything about the. 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:23.480 Crime, didn't even know it happened. 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:25.880 You were home with your girlfriend when this happened. 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:29.120 Yes, I was doing a lated birthday party from my 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.120 son and he came from Wisconsin. His birthday was on 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.040 the twenty ninth, and we were celebrating on the night 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:38.360 of the crime, which was four to ninety three, and 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:41.080 had a chemistry set for him and we were just 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:45.240 tinkering around and have no idea of these events happening 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:47.600 just a few miles away now. 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:49.960 I Meanwhile, there's another aspect of this that's important to recognize, 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:52.800 which is crime stoppers, right, and theory crime stoppers great thing. Right, 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:55.240 people call up, they talk about a crime, they can 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.000 make us all safer. They get a reward. But in 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:00.320 your case, except except when they do it like When's 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:02.320 case where someone called up and knew nothing about the 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:05.920 crime and just gave up his name in order to 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:08.840 get two thousand, six hundred and fifty dollars the Price 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.000 of life, right, about one hundred dollars a year for 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:13.320 the time you were in the Price of Life. So 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:16.120 all of this must have come as a tremendous shock 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:19.279 to you when it happened in stages right when you 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:21.320 first first you became aware that you were a suspect. 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:23.360 Can you get into that aspect of this whole thing. 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:26.440 I was taking my daughter and my son to a 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:30.719 birthday party and the police tried to for hid me, 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:37.200 and unfortunately I was ghettle bred, so I fled and 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:38.240 that's how it started. 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:44.760 That was June tenth, nineteen ninety three, about ten weeks 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:48.919 after the crime. Two days earlier, on June eighth, Marvin Windham, 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:51.279 a man Patrick knew from a few small time weed 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:53.800 deals around Rockford, was the first one to point the 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:56.599 finger at him in a call he made to crime stoppers. 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.240 It was later revealed a trial that not only did 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:02.640 Marvin have ey for Samantha Crabtree, Patrick's girlfriend, but he 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:05.400 also received leniency on a number of charges that he 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:08.120 faced in exchange for his testimony not to mention the 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:11.960 two six hundred and fifty dollars reward. With Wyndham's hot tip, 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:14.640 the police now we're able to get a search warrant 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:18.520 for Patrick and Samantha's apartment, where they recovered a Taurus 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:22.240 nine millimeter that Samantha kept for protection. Notably, she always 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:25.040 stored it out of reach of her small children. While 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:27.720 Patrick fled on foot and the cops rated the apartment, 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:32.040 they brought Samantha in for some aggressive interrogation, and I'm 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:33.039 putting that mile. 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:39.279 The intergregated my girlfriend for like twelve hours. She was pregnant, 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:44.360 you know, just basically force fed a narrative to her 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:48.440 while disregarding glaring contradictions. 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:51.520 And so your girlfriend was the pregnant mother of two 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:51.920 or three. 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:53.719 Never been in trouble, three kids, three. 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:54.800 Kids, pregnant mother. 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:56.559 So she's a target for twelve hours, and the police 0:05:56.560 --> 0:06:00.080 tells her that if she doesn't tell them exactly what 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:01.800 they want to hear, she. 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:04.280 Won't see her children till she's forty. 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:05.839 So here's how this unraveled. 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:08.560 So they take her from directly from the interrogation room 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:10.719 to a grand jury where they make her repeat the 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:12.240 story right now. 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:13.680 She's under oath, right. 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:15.440 Get her own record, get her under you know, a 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:17.520 substantiate of evidence come in later. 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:20.440 So she tells them what they want to hear, and 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.880 a girlfriend, to her everlasting. 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:26.720 Credit, stood strong to get back. Can you talk about that. 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:28.960 Yeah, So, as soon as she was out of custody, 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:31.880 she filed an affidavit with my attorneys and said she 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:36.800 was courced basically took back her statement. Whether Ellanoi idea 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:41.160 is no takebacks right now. It's called perjury. It's called perjury. 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:44.479 It's called come in that trial substantial evidence. Then you 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:47.880 say this under oath and comes in as evidence of guilt. 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:51.280 Your girlfriend ended up spending two years in prison because. 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:53.320 She didn't go along with the narrative and took it back. 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:01.159 The narrative of her terror rized, spoon fed and patently 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:04.159 false confession and her grand jury testimony was that she 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:07.040 and Patrick were having financial trouble and on the night 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:08.760 of the murder, they were driving around in search of 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:10.880 a house to rob when Patrick told her to stop 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:13.120 on silent road, hopped out of the car, put on 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:15.320 a blue ski mask, told her to keep the engine running, 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:18.320 and ran off toward the apartment buildings. Then a few 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.520 minutes later, she heard two gun shots and Patrick returned 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:25.720 to the car carrying a Taurus nine millimeter. Hours before 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:28.800 being threatened with a life separated from her children and 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:32.800 regurgitating this narrative for her false confession, Samantha's apartment was 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:36.400 being searched by the police where photos were actually staged. 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:37.560 There were staged. 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:40.000 Photos of her tourist nine millimeters being stored in plain 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:41.320 sight for ease of use. 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.800 The whole gun situation as far as like pictures where 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:48.920 the gun was. It's like I had children in my house. 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:51.080 I'm not going to have a gun in plain view 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:53.160 where a ten year old could get it. It just wasn't. 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:55.600 The whole narrative of how it was put together was 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:58.040 so far suppose it's just crazy. 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:00.640 But early on you you had a lawyer who actually 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:01.920 made one move. 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:05.840 One move ch course, save your life. Yeah, So every defendant, 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:08.080 I think, in the course of America says I didn't 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:11.400 do it. I had a young lawyer who was beginning 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:14.280 his career and I was his first depth penalty case. 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:17.200 And then I had the older lawyer who kind of 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:20.400 just like, I'm out of here. So the young lawyer 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:23.040 and his pushback, right, you know you didn't do it. Well, 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:29.400 we'll test the gun. Really, you can do that. Yes, 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.440 please test the gun. Test gun. That's how it all started, 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:33.719 That's what got me here. 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:39.440 Ballistic testing is very important to this story. Ballistics is 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:42.480 the study of the dynamics of projectiles or of the 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:45.600 internal action of firearms. It can tell us what type 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:48.000 of firearm was used, where it was fired, from, how 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.600 many shots were fired, and most importantly for this case, 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:53.400 it can be used to identify a firearm by the 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:57.280 markings left on bullets and bullet casings after firing. So, 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.680 after both the state's crime lab and the defense's independent 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:05.280 lab test fire Crabtrees nine milimeter and compare the bullets 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:07.720 and casings from both the test firing and the murder, 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:11.040 the prosecution's expert testified that the gun used in the 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:13.920 murder was Crabtrees Tourist nine millimeter and this is a 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:18.679 direct quote to the exclusion of all others. Powerful testimony, 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:22.839 false but powerful. While the defense's expert testified that the 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:26.040 murder weapon was likely a Tourist nine millimere but not 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:30.560 crab Trees. However, the expert hired by the defense could 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:32.720 not conclusively exclude the gun. 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:34.679 So think about this. 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:38.760 You now have the state testifying with absolute certainty and 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:44.960 the defense inconclusive in their exclusion of Patrick. This, along 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:50.520 with Marvin Wyndham's incentivized testimony and Samantha Crabtree's initial false confession, 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:52.840 brings us to where we know this part of the 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:58.560 story tragically, when, however, the ballistics testing becomes crucial again 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:05.040 many years down the road, when the jury went out, 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:08.120 You've now seen a bunch of dirty tricks. You've been 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:10.400 around the system. You grew up, as you said, in 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:13.880 the streets, so you know what can happen. You're a 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:16.280 young black man at this point in the clutches of 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:18.680 a system that is designed to chew you up and 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:19.319 spit you out. 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:23.160 I think Lupe called it planned convalescence. I think called 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:23.360 it that. 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:24.120 Well. 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:27.760 That being said, when the jury went out, did. 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:28.240 You have hope? 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:31.199 Oh yeah, I knew I didn't do it. I know 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:33.679 it was going home. And so when they returned a 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:37.200 guilty verdict, I just I really don't even remember how 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:41.360 I got back to my cell because I guess the 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:43.760 blood drained off my body or something. I just went 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:47.480 body numb, and uh, you know, I couldn't believe it. 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:49.640 I just I couldn't believe it. It floored me. 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:53.920 I don't think anybody here can possibly begin to understand 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:56.120 unless someone else here has been through what you've been through. 0:10:56.679 --> 0:11:00.480 And now you're facing the death penalty. Yes, come back 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:01.920 for sentencing, and the judge. 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:05.360 Says, because of the inconsistencies of the evidence, I'm not 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:07.840 going to give you the death penalty. However, I will 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:10.520 give you natural life, I'll find you'll be a minister society. 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:13.200 And this is at a time where people were actually 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:14.719 picketing for me to get a new trial. It was 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:17.360 very strange and very strange correlation what was going on. 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:19.760 And that's just fasake. We're not going to kill you quickly, 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:21.120 but we are going to kill you slowly. 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:21.560 Right. 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:23.720 Yeah, I'm having mercy on you because I see the 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:26.559 bs and evidence. But you're still going, buddy. 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:26.960 You're gone. 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:29.120 There was a cry in the courtroom when he announced 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:35.600 that my daughters were there. It was something else. 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.400 You were said to some of the worst, well one 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:50.439 of the worst prisons. 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:54.480 Yes, stay built, and I'm one job in the law library. 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:56.920 I tried to play past the game banging and the 0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:59.400 dice games and try to educate myself. I got a 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:02.320 grant to correspondence classes in law. 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:05.080 Is it as bad as everyone thinks it is? 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:08.720 I'm a natural life survivor right so, right now in 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:12.040 the wintertime, although locks are cut off the windows so 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:15.080 the natives don't make knives, However, what that does allows 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.000 your cell to have enough ice on you can make 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:23.000 a snow cone right off the bars. And freezing temperatures mice, roaches, 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:25.319 so many roaches. You put a potato chip back in 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:28.320 the corner of your segregation cell and the roaches going 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:30.160 there and they can't get out, and so you hear 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:32.720 kind of like the scraping. And that was the roach 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:37.600 motel in f House Panoptacon. They actually, uh, it's a landmark. 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:38.680 It's a landmark. 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:41.800 And of the two point two million people in prison, 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:44.439 there are a lot of them who don't have air conditioning. 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:46.160 And I don't know. 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:49.040 A guy who died recently in Texas prison, he told 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:50.839 his brother that his brother said, why don't you have 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:53.319 any sodas? You love soda, but you can't keep sodas 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:54.880 in your cell. You said, I can't because they explode 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:57.360 because it's too hot. Like what the fuck even is that? 0:12:57.400 --> 0:12:59.880 Well, ice is the commodity. They might get one cup 0:12:59.880 --> 0:13:01.920 of ice in the morning, one cup of ice at night. 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:06.080 Ice is a commodity. So you will deal with the elements. 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:08.760 And right around April fifteenth they will turn off the 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:13.440 heat every year like clockwork, despite the elements. 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:17.640 Right in Chicago, you got some elements here, God knows it. 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:22.679 So And I'm always fascinated and amazed by people like yourself, 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:25.559 who managed to, you know, go through this ordeal as 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:28.920 an innocent person, and the extra psychological damage that that 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:32.840 must do to a person who's undergoing the extreme physical 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.800 hardships and the loneliness and all the rest of it. 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.000 The violence in the prison, we talked about it, the 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:40.520 terrible food, et cetera. Set the cold, the heat, and 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:45.120 then you are there, you know, innocent forever, innocent. Right. 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.360 I was done, all my appeals were done. I was 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:49.920 done in court. It was over. 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:56.800 With that being said, you found this something, this inner strength, perseverance, 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.079 whatever you have, you describe it. And you not only 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.840 didn't you give up, but you had, first of all, 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:04.480 you had every reason to give up. Motion after motion 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:06.960 after motion, denied, denied, denied. 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.600 All I needed was one yes. I needed once one yes. 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:11.040 That's it. 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:13.560 And how you got to that is a really incredible 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:17.839 part of the story. So you deny, denied. Now, as 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:21.040 I understand that the law in Illinois at the time 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:24.680 allowed for post conviction testing of fingerprints in DNA, but 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:25.880 not ballistics. 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:28.480 Exactly, So in two thousand and I asked for the testing. 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:32.800 I've seen an article and a tribune about Illinois State Police. 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:37.280 Now starts using the IBIS system Integated Ballistic Identification System, 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:41.200 which uses algorithms to connect ballistics to crime scenes. So 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:43.520 I was like, that can free me. I knew it 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:47.440 could free me. It was just that simple. And unfortunately, 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:49.720 because the law didn't allow for it in two thousand 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:51.920 and two thousand and one, wis for it. The courts 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:54.320 was like, no, the law would have to be amended. 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:56.480 The law would have to be a change in order 0:14:56.560 --> 0:15:00.720 to grant me the gun testing, which would potentially designer Rabian. 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:01.960 That was two thousand and one. 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:06.000 Right, So you were stuff on a technicality, right because 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:08.080 you knew that you had this evidence because your lawyer 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:08.520 had tested. 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:10.480 We go back to that, right. Your lawyer had had 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:12.600 the sense to go and get. 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:16.560 The testing independent lab. Independent lab. This lab had only 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:18.400 testified for defendants four times. 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:20.680 So now a lot of people would say, Okay, here 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:22.800 you are in the segregation unit of one of the 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:25.960 worst prisons in America. Not a great education. You'd have 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:29.040 a law degree, you didn't have a science degree. It 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:33.560 would seem to be hopeless. But somehow or other, you 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:38.400 managed to actually get the law changed from inside yourself. 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:50.000 So so long, long story short, it's two thousand and six. 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:52.960 I'm in chowhall. There's an a warden, I would say, 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.920 a southern gentleman. Maybe in past life he had slave ships. 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:58.800 He sees my prayer beads and he says, are you 0:15:58.840 --> 0:15:59.600 allowed to have them? 0:15:59.640 --> 0:15:59.800 Sir? 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:03.160 And me, being the sarcastic bastard I am, I buck 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:05.880 up and say yes, sir. So he looks at me 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:08.280 and says, are you sure you're allowed to have him? 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:10.720 I don't like your attitude. He sees the energy coming 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.560 off me. I say, sir, yes, sir, And so he 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.400 gets a little closer in my personal space than the 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:19.120 tar man's out with the gun. It's about two hundred inmates, 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:23.320 and he says, I don't like your attitude. I said, 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.080 we don't like your attitude either, sir. You brought much 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:29.120 misery and suffering to the land. As a result, I 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:32.160 went straight to segregation six months in some of the 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:35.080 worst conditions in the United States. But while there I 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:38.360 had epiphany and I wrote an article that became a 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:38.960 state law. 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:44.480 And what is that law? Yeah, exactly, here we go. 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:46.720 So the law is seven to twenty five. I'll see 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.320 as five hue sixteen dash three as a minute October 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:52.720 twenty seven, two thousand and seven, signed by Governor Blagoyevitch. 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:55.560 I should probably send him some money for commissary because 0:16:56.520 --> 0:17:00.520 he actually he helped me. No, really, he helped me. I 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:04.679 just it slips my mind sometimes, but he helped me. 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:07.399 He really did. He signed my idea to law. 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.320 If you remember, back in two thousand and nine, Illinois 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:13.920 Governor Rod Blokoyevitch was indicted on corruption charges that included 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:17.639 the alleged solicitation of personal benefit in exchange for Barack 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:22.640 Obama's recently vacated US Senate seat. As I remember that well, 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:26.400 it was a bizarre episode anyway. He was later found 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:30.520 guilty of seventeen different charges, including wire fraud, attempted extortion, 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:33.760 and conspiracy to solicit bribes, and sentenced to fourteen years 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.960 behind bars. But before he left office, he did sign 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:41.640 Patrick's amendment into law. Now back to the law. Bill 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:44.360 Ryan worked for the Department of Children and Family Services 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:46.320 as an advocate for long term offenders. 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:47.359 He had a. 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:50.040 Newsletter that was circulated throughout prisons as well as the 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:52.880 families of inmates, to law professors and colleges, and even 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:57.840 legislators and politicians. Mister Ryan published the article that Patrick 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:01.160 wrote about amending the law to include post conviction ballistics 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:06.359 testing through the Integrated Ballistics Identification System also known as IBIS. 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:12.040 In turn, Illinois State Representative Arthur Turner Senior sponsored the legislation. 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.680 You can imagine the letters that come from prison, and 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:19.760 so Bill Ryan are a long term advocate, explained to me, 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:23.720 and Michelle says Patrick, you just don't get it. I 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:27.240 had a table full of letters. I reached down to 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:30.199 grab one letter, open it up. You asked me to 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:33.520 give it to the senators, and I did so. It's 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:37.840 completely by the grace of the creator, completely fortuitous, anomalist, 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:39.280 whatever you think. 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:42.200 It was all just luck, right, No, I mean. 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:45.200 The stars lined upwards, genetics as a comminator, it's all 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:45.600 the above. 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:50.680 It's a combination of everything. And so ultimately the log 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:55.080 it's changed. They opened the jail doors, they let you 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:58.400 out right. No, it's never not exactly. So the log 0:18:58.440 --> 0:18:59.720 has changed. Illinois. 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:02.240 It comes to first state in the country to have 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:05.479 this law in order to grant me the gun testing. 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:08.479 So the log has changed. In general, Block which were 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:11.399 in the shadow of my attorneys over there on Clark Street, 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:14.720 who spent like four point five million dollars over ten 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:17.000 years to get me exonerated. 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:19.639 Well, first of all, let's not leave out there are 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.920 a lot of heroes in your story right northwest, none 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:25.679 bigger than you, by the way, And two of them 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:27.560 are in the room, And I want to recognize Steve 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:31.200 Drizzen and Laura and I Ryder from the Northwestern Center 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:35.040 on Ronfel convictions, who have been steadfast support as they 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:36.879 still are. They your biggest fans of me. To be 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:38.919 embarrassed if you heard something things they said. But anyway, 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:42.919 so Rockford fought every step of the way. There was 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.560 no welcoming Reese for the conquering hero. 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:47.520 It was none of that. It was more like my 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.040 cousin Vinnie, we don't take too can of your kind 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:54.119 around here. So it was a long fight. It was 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:56.679 a very long fight. About five rounds of gun testing 0:19:57.119 --> 0:20:01.440 showed the gun didn't match. And of course no one 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:05.239 and knits mistakes in this world. So we had to 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:07.840 fight new trial, new trial. 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:09.480 But meanwhile, now you're hitting your. 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:12.960 Stride, I'm hitting my stride. We were winning motion after motion. 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:16.359 It was just amazing. It was a momentum. If you 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:20.919 can imagine ten fifteen years of representing myself, or you know, 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:23.440 just trying to navigate the system. 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:26.120 And you're just starting to look like a lawyer. 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:28.879 Did everybody tell you that I do hear that I 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:32.359 take my cues from Steve Drizzen, I confessed. 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:38.160 So, as you know, the wheels of justice turned painfully slowly. 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:41.720 Even after getting the law changed in order to request 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:44.720