WEBVTT - The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:07.680 Welcome to stuff you should know a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:13.319 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:16.599 Chuck and Jerry's here too. And this is the brief 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:18.880 overview of Cliff Notes. 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:25.759 We're not going to do the Exhausted Encyclopedia documentary length 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:27.200 Cliff's Notes episode. 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:31.840 Nope, we are doing the brief overview of Cliff's Notes. 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:33.960 I said it wrong the first time. It's never been 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:36.720 cliff notes. It's Cliff's notes. 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:39.280 Yeah, I mean the first thing we should probably say, 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:43.000 because Jerry and the pre show banter even got it wrong. 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:45.320 Even though I said, Jerry, we're doing an episode on 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:48.200 Cliff's notes. She said, I used to get cliff notes. 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:51.640 It's not cliff notes. I used to say cliff notes 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:55.960 too in high school. But it is Cliff's notes, as 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:59.280 in the person's nameless Cliff. As we'll soon found find out. 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:03.000 It used to an apostrophe, then it just became cliffs 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:07.600 two words notes without an apostrophe. Then it became cliffs 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:11.399 notes all one word, but with that end capitalized. 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:11.360 So stylish. 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:13.760 But it has never been cliff notes. 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:17.240 No, but everyone basically in the world calls it cliff. 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:20.480 Notes, right, and we should tell everyone what this is. 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:23.000 If you don't know, I do know that they went 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:24.440 around the world a little bit, but it feels like 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:29.640 a very American thing. It is a study aid. It's 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:32.840 basically sort of I was about to say a cliffs 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:35.680 Notes version of the book, because it's so in the 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:38.479 lexicon now. But it's like if you went to read 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:40.319 a book in high school in the eighties, like The 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:42.960 Scarlet Letter, and you're like, oh God, do I really 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:45.399 have to read the Scarlet Letter? You would go to 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:48.440 a store and you would buy this yellow and black, 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:52.360 very thin pamphlet. I don't remember how much they were then, 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:55.720 they're only about eight ninety nine now. Yeah, And it 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:59.000 would contextualize the work. It would summarize the work, give 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:03.200 the character descriptions, basically everything you needed to know the 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:05.960 night before to pass the test or write the paper. 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:09.560 Yeah, and like you said, it's entered the lexicon. Most 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:12.600 people can recognize it just that from that yellow and 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:16.160 black cover it looks like a minute Work album cover. Yeah, 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:19.840 or Striper Striper, Yes, very nice. Maybe that's where Striper 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:24.160 got it maybe. And then yeah, most people in America 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:26.560 know what we're talking about. I do wonder how well 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:28.280 known it is around the world, though. 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:30.840 I mean, I think it ended up going to thirty 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:34.000 nine countries. But it just feels like a very lazy 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:37.799 American thing, especially for gen xers, to be like, I'll 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:38.800 just get that and that's fine. 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:43.760 Yeah, because it's been long, basically from the outset, criticized 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:49.400 for being this thing that students read and use instead 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:52.480 of actually reading the material, the book that they're supposed 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:57.560 to read. That actually ran a foul. I guess of 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:00.400 what the guy who invented these things intent was. He 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:02.359 always said, no, this is not what that's for. You're 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:05.960 supposed to read the regular book. You're supposed to read 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:08.959 the Scarlet Letter, Chuck, and whether you like it or 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:11.960 not doesn't matter. And then you get the cliffs notes 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:14.800 and you understand it that much more fully. That was 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:15.280 the point. 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.920 That's right. And of course we're talking about Keith Hilla Gas. 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:23.680 Oh I'm kidding. Clifton Heath kill A Gas. His name 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:27.480 was cliff a gentleman was a true corn Huskers. We'll see. 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:30.280 He was born in nineteen eighteen out in the rural 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:34.480 sticks of Nebraska. His father was a mail carrier and 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:38.760 he was a very smart kid, and I would assume 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:41.760 a smart adult because he studied physics and math at 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.880 Midland Lutheran College and then was going to grad school 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:49.040 for physics and geology at the University of Nebraska, Go 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:52.440 corn Huskers, Okay, but dropped out in nineteen thirty nine 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:56.720 to marry a classmate named Katherine Gallbraith, at which time 0:03:56.760 --> 0:04:01.120 he got a job at Long's College Books as a clerk, 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:04.400 and that company would later become the Nebraska Book Company. 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:09.600 Yeah, so, long story short, Cliff Hill of Gas was 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:12.360 a very smart guy. I saw that he was said 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:15.680 to read five books a week basically his whole life. 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:18.640 Or did he just read five quick summaries? 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:21.680 I don't know. I just don't know because he's dead 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:23.159 now and we can't ask him. 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:27.120 That's right. But he worked at the NBC Nebraska Book 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:28.839 Company up until World War Two when he went to 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:32.320 the Army. He was a meteorologist for the Army Air Corps. 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:35.800 So again, pretty smart dude ended up a captain and 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:39.080 his wife, Catherine, worked as a clerk for the Manhattan Project, 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:41.000 so she was sharp as attack as well. 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:44.120 Yeah. Also, I want to give big ups. Are we 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:46.160 still saying big ups? Heck. 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:48.720 Yeah, man, we're old people. We can say whatever we want. 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:50.760 I want to give big ups to Olivia who helped 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:53.520 us out with this, because there is not a lot 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:58.080 of information on cliff Notes out there. Yeah, it's like 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:00.160 it's just not out there. You can get like the 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:05.040 like appropriately enough to brief overview of cliff Notes in 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:07.480 its history, but to really dig in and get the details, 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:09.680 you got to get out there. So thanks to her 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:10.120 for that. 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:12.839 She did it. I think she broke into the estate 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:17.360 of the Hillo Gas estate and stole a diary. She did, 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:18.240 I think so. 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:21.000 Yeah. And then also I want to give big ups 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:22.920 to Mental Flows too because they did some really good 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:24.880 reporting on it, to some good digging. 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:28.560 Yeah for sure. All right. So back to Cliff Hillogas 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:31.200 he was in the army. Then after the war he 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:34.880 went back to his old job at the Nebraska Book Company. 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:37.800 And we knew you'd be crawling back. 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:44.440 Yeah, And he helped transform them into a wholesale textbook distributor, 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:46.920 and he ended up sort of traveling all over the 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:50.160 country buying and selling used textbooks. When a little trip 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:54.800 to Toronto, Canada ended up being quite a good thing 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:56.080 for the course of his life, right. 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:59.159 Yeah, depending on who you're talking about. It wasn't that 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:01.520 good of a thing for named Jack Cole, the guy 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:04.080 who we had dinner with in Toronto, who was a 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:07.800 bookstore owner. And Jack Cole was like, hey, man, I'm 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:11.359 gonna let you in on this business opportunity. I have 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:16.279 these condensed pamphlets that basically are analysis of Shakespeare's place. 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:21.719 I publish sixteen of them, and I think the quote 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:26.840 from Cliff Hillogas was Jack Cole said yes, I know, yeah, 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:29.120 he said, I want you to be the American distributor 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:34.400 of these pamphlets, which I call Cole's Notes. And Clifton 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:37.840 Hilligas said, all right, I'll give it a shot, and 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:41.799 started selling these things, publishing them and selling them in America. 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:44.800 And what happened from Cole's Notes. 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:48.520 Chuck, Well, the first thing we should say is he 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:50.800 took a great risk. And I'm not like, you know, 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:53.440 weighing in one way or the other of the ethics 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:56.000 of any of this. But Hillogas did take upon great 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:58.840 financial risks. Huh. He got a loan for four thousand 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:01.480 dollars to make this happen close to fifty grand today, 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:04.840 and printed up thirty three thousand copies of these Cole's 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:08.040 Notes himself, and he and his wife Catherine and their 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:12.040 three young kids, like packed and shipped these things in 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:16.000 their house, out of their home for a little while, 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:21.240 and we're selling pretty good. And then what happened. 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:24.840 Josh, Well, yeah, so they were paying royalties to Jet Cole. 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:28.880 That was the setup, and within the first year, I 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:31.960 guess Hilla Gas was like nuts to that, I'm just 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:35.360 going to rename these things cliff Notes Cliffs Notes. So 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:37.920 they went from Cole's Notes to cliffs Notes. I think 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:43.200 the Cole was heard to say and Cliff was like, 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.600 I can't hear you. I'm done in Nebraska. So I 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:49.000 just see people gloss over this all the time like 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:52.120 it's I just don't understand why it's not at all 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:56.160 controversial because he clearly just took he just lifted the 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:59.960 intellectual property of Jet Cole and took it as his own. 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:03.960 To be fair, he re wrote and phased out the 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:07.520 Cole's Note stuff, but the whole concept and even basically 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:08.720 the name was the same. 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:14.360 Yeah, I would argue that maybe the name is intellectual property, 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:16.760 but I think in a court of law a judge 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:20.880 would say, like you can't claim like doing a condensed 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:23.760 version of a book as like an original idea that 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:27.440 no one else can do, because there were summaries before this. 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:31.560 They didn't invent the idea of a literary summary, you 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:32.160 know what I'm saying. 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:36.000 Yeah, but if law and Order has taught me anything, 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.280 it's that you can't predict what a judge is going 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:38.720 to rule. 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.000 No, that's true, but and I do. I'm not like 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:44.760 going to bat for Cliff. I'm just saying that I 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:46.720 don't think that's one of those ideas you can say, 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:49.480 like I hold the idea for condensing a long novel 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:50.560 into a shorter version. 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:52.720 No, I understand, And I'm not trying to like gun 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:55.440 him down. I just hadn't gotten my gotcha today, so 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:56.120 that was right. 0:08:57.280 --> 0:08:59.520 I do feel bad for Cole though, if it helps. 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:02.800 I do too, and nowhere what his his his reaction 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:05.800 was or what he did. I made up his quote 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:10.360 of that was right. But yeah, everybody just walks right 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:11.400 past that stuff. 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:12.520 Yeah for sure. 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:15.080 And I refuse to well people. 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:18.360 I feel like everyone is called out online for doing 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:20.400 something like this, but old old Cliff gets a pass, 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:23.320 I guess because everyone got through school because of him. 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:26.079 Yeah, that's the thing. So, yeah, this is not to 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:28.120 paint him as a bad guy. If you want to 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:30.760 know about him. He treasured letters that he got from 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:34.440 students thanking him for helping them get through school, which 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:36.880 you and I can attest. Getting a letter and email 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:41.000 like that is really great. So I guess that makes 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:43.760 us really great too. If I'm saying that that makes 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:47.080 him a good guy, that's wonderful. That really worked out. 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:50.199 Yeah, he sold a lot of these pretty quickly, though. 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:53.120 I do like how Olivia, but he gradually phased out 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:56.080 the original material, right, It seemed like that happened within 0:09:56.120 --> 0:10:01.040 that first year. Yeah, but he was I also couldn't 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:03.400 find when he stopped paying the royalties. It was that 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:04.520 during the first year or two. 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:08.200 I'm guessing when it became cliff notes. He yeah, stopped 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:09.840 paying royalty probably right. 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:13.840 But nevertheless, between the start of when he started doing 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:17.000 that in August of nineteen fifty eight and just yet 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:19.680 six months six months later, at the end of that year, 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:22.760 he had sold fifty eight thousand copies of these book 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:26.160 summaries and pamphlets, and by nineteen sixty four, but six 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:28.679 years later, he was doing it. He was doing all 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:30.720 this on the side from the Nebraska Book Company. He 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:33.920 was able to quit that job by sixty four, and 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:36.720 just the sixties were a big decade period. He quit 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:39.320 that job in sixty four. He changed the name in 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:44.680 the sixties from Cliff's Notes without the apostrophe to cliffs Notes, Big, 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:47.600 big deal. And then he got divorced in nineteen sixty 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:48.600 six and got remarried. 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:53.080 Yeah. Later on he got remarried to a woman named Mary. Yeah, 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:55.600 and I guess he adopted her two kids. Another thing 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:58.920 that shows he's a stand up guy. Really, the only 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:02.160 blemish on his entire lifetime is how he treated Jack Cole. 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:05.840 That's true. But did those kids biological father get royalties 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:07.760 on those children? 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:11.920 Named them Cliff's kids. They were originally Jack Cole's because 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:13.120 he stole his wife Mary. 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:16.600 Oh man uh, And everyone just glosses right over there. 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:19.719 Should we take a break? Sure, all right, we'll take 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:21.880 an early break here because this one's probably a little 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:25.000 bit shorter, and we'll talk about the early days of 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:32.320 that company right after this. 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:45.560 We los so much stuff from Josh and shuck stuff futi. 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:53.600 So we should say, despite legendarily reading five books a week, 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:56.480 Hilly guests didn't write any of the cliffs notes. He 0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:59.679 was more like the business guy. He Yeah, he had 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:03.280 the ide you would put in scare quotes, and he 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:06.560 was running the whole operation. He had the vision for it, right, 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:11.080 So he hired other people and initially hired literature teachers 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:15.280 like hardcore, like hardcore, like they have crew cuts and 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:17.480 wear like army boots and stuff like that kind of 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.960 lit teacher. But he realized something very quickly that I'm 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:25.200 sure developed. A hardcore lit teacher who's been teaching the 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:28.480 same books, been teaching a Scarlet Letter for I think 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:31.160 we should not mention a single other book besides a 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:33.080 Scarlet Letter in this episode. What do you think? 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:33.760 Agreed? 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:36.960 All right, let's give it a shot. These hardcore lit 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:40.280 teachers who have been teaching a Scarlet Letter or the 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:43.600 Scarlet Letter, sorry for twenty years. Technically I just named 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:47.560 another book, Chuck for twenty years. These people know too much, 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:49.760 They understand the book too well, they know all the 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:52.680 details that they just get mired down when they're writing 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:57.680 a synopsis or something. It's just too intense for the audience, 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:02.760 which is high school and call it reads usually undergrad readers. 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.560 Yeah, he was like, well, pump your brakes. I'm trying 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:10.320 to sell these to lazy kids, exactly like broad Overview. Please. 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:13.439 He ended up with grad students, mainly saying that they 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:17.840 did the best work, which makes sense too, that's right. 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:21.959 But we mentioned the iconic yellow and black design. That 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:28.000 was something Cliff thought of himself. I remember the Mountain 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:30.840 Cliffs even being on the editions I had when I was, 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.440 you know, a student in the eighties. I don't think 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:35.160 they have that anymore, but they have these yellow and 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:38.600 black stripes. They just it looks. I mean, it's a 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:41.480 genius branding move, just to do that simple little thing. 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:46.080 Because Cliff's Notes were so identifiable from from across a 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:50.360 bookstore the night before a test or something, you could 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:53.640 zoom over to that, that spinning rack of yellow and 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:54.439 black pamphlets. 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:57.440 Yeah, they would. You'd walk in the bookstore and they'd 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:02.080 call to you, don't bother come by, Yeah, exactly. So 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:04.440 one of the big things. I didn't know this, but 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:07.240 one of the big reasons Cliff Notes became the brand 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:10.280 that it is today, which is to say iconic, is 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:13.880 because they advertised a lot in the sixties and they 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:17.119 very wisely went to where their readership was. They advertised 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:22.840 in seventeen, they advertised in Playboy, they advertised in well, 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.880 the Scholastic Journal. I don't know how much of a 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:28.200 return on investment they got on that. But they also 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:31.800 advertise in college newspapers bingo. Yeah, and so like if 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:35.200 you're if you're going to high schoolers and college kids 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:39.320 and saying, hey, we have something that you it's going 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:41.640 to keep you from having to read a scarlet letter, 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:46.040 the scarlet letter, like don't you want that? And they say, yes, 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:49.160 I want that so bad. Like it just it just 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:52.600 rooted that business and simultaneously made it take off like 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:53.200 a rocket. 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:55.840 That's right. And you would open up the scarlet letter 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:58.120 Cliff notes and it would say the letter is a 0:14:58.400 --> 0:14:58.840 the end. 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.440 That's why I keep a scarlet letter. 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:08.200 Yeah, probably could is it is literally a A for awesome, No, 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.360 not quite. One thing Cliff had in his corner was 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.800 all his work for the Nebraska Book Company and being 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:17.280 a traveling salesperson and all these relationships he had with 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:22.320 bookstores because he owned the market for this eighty percent 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:26.440 of the market for guides to literature belonged to Cliff. 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:30.480 Because that was just it. I mean I think I 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:33.360 think for a long time, I mean, competitors would come along, 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:35.560 and we'll talk about that, but I think he had 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:39.960 a number of years, maybe even decades, where everyone was 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:43.560 just like, well, no, there's already cliff Notes, Like why 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:44.400 even bother m. 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:49.880 He owns it, right, That wasn't enough to keep people 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.440 from coming along as competitors. But it does seem like 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:56.440 they really didn't start to emerge until much much later 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:59.560 in history. Yeah, like decades and decades on. 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:00.840 Yeah, for sure. 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:03.760 One of the things that cliss Notes have long been 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:07.480 criticized for, though, is like they write they write the 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:13.720 book on the scarlet letter, and that's that. Like what 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:16.800 you are reading could have been written by a grad 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:21.440 student in nineteen sixty eight, even though you just bought 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:25.520 this thing like last week. That's not the case any longer. 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:28.520 It's changed hands, and as it's changed hands several times, 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.440 they've definitely been dusted off and brushed up in all 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:34.960 those idioms. But for a very long time it was 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:38.920 like this is really old fashioned stuff, especially like the 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:42.680 language they use, the points they're making a lot of. 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.440 One of the things that cliss Notes was known for 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:50.400 is putting works of literature specifically the Scarlet Letter into 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:55.479 a historical context, and that can change as people understand 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:58.360 history more. But if you don't go update it, it's 0:16:58.400 --> 0:16:59.560 the understanding of it. 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:04.359 Eighteen sixty eight, Yeah, for sure. You know we mentioned 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:09.280 the sixties. You just mentioned sixty eight for crying out loud. Yeah, 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:11.199 being a kind of a big decade for the business. 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:13.200 It was toward the end of that decade that things 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:16.360 got a little rocky. It was around nineteen sixty nine 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:21.040 that a couple of things happened to sort of dampen 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.840 the business, I guess a little bit. And this is 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:27.240 something I didn't know, but apparently starting in nineteen sixty 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:29.680 nine and through the first, you know, bit of the seventies, 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.080 the classics people are like, Hey, all these new teachers 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:34.560 came along and're like, hey, we don't need to read 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.479 the Scarlett Letter anymore. We're going to read another unnamed 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:40.560 book that's a little more current. And so the classics 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:42.480 kind of fell off a little bit. And apparently a 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:45.520 lot of high schools and colleges started the past fail thing. 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:49.800 So a kid wasn't as incentivized to ace a test, 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:53.520 they were just incentivized to pass a test. So They're like, 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:55.240 I don't even need the cliff notes. I can just 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:57.080 kind of fake my way through and pass this thing. 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:00.840 As a result, they dropped about a million bucks a 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:04.800 year in sales up until like the mid seventies, when 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:06.280 they were like, oh my god, what were we thinking. 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:09.160 We got to put the scarlet letterback on the reading list, 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:12.040 and we have to grade these kids according to their grade. 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:14.280 This past failed thing is not doing anyone any favors. 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:15.240 It's chaos. 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:16.040 It's chaos. 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:18.040 Yeah. Not only did they drop a million in sales, 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.920 they dropped a million units in the middle. 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:22.080 I thought that was sales. 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:26.119 No, Like, the number of sales that they made dropped 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:28.200 from two point eight million to one point eight million. 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:31.280 Oh, I was pretty sure that was dollars. But and 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.040 I'm sure if you're positive that it's units, I will 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:34.320 move on. 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:36.480 Seventy eight percent positive. 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:39.119 Oh okay, Well that tracks because I was twenty two 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:40.040 percent pots okay. 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:46.040 Yeah. And Cliff Hill of Gas was like, you hippies 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:51.520 right for that huge loss in sales for the mid seventies. Yeah. 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:54.560 So there was another stumble that they made Cliff's cassettes, 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:57.120 which was a good idea if you ask me, totally. 0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:00.199 It was cliff Notes, but in a cassette version that 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:02.840 your kids could pop into their Walkman and walk around 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:03.960 listening to you. 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:04.879 Want to be lazier in? 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:07.439 Yeah, exactly. You don't even have to walk around. You 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:09.720 can lay there and listen to this stuff with your 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.639 eyes closed, in your hands soaking in Paul Mallin. 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:15.320 If you don't want to read the Scarlet Letter, and 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:18.280 you don't want to read the forty seven page summary, 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:20.680 how about you just pop in that cassette and lay 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:22.360 on your bed and smoke some. 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:25.199 Grass, yeah, and listen to Ed Asner tell you what 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:26.520 the Scarlet Letter means. 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:30.679 Oh boy, was that planned or did you just come 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:31.119 up with that ad? 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:32.199 I just came up with that. 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.360 Oh that's so great. This was only about a six 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:37.760 month thing. It did not go over well despite being 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:40.119 a pretty good idea that got me thinking about just 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:42.600 audio books or books on tape and when that was 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:47.600 a thing. Apparently that started in nineteen thirty two. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.520 the American Foundation for the Blind opened up a recording studio, 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:52.800 So it was a thing, but I feel like it 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:55.440 didn't really take off until much, much, much later. 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:58.760 Until the Walkman. Did you have a Walkman by the way. 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:01.600 Ah, yeah, of course I did. 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:05.920 Nice. I did too. I associated specifically with my cassette 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:07.640 of Huey Lewis and the News. 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:10.280 Sports one of the great records of all time. 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:11.840 Yeah, it is really good. 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:13.640 I don't think I ever had a disc man. 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:14.960 I didn't either. 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:22.159 I think I went straight from Walkman to cheese. I 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:24.159 guess iPod as far as walking around. 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:27.879 Oh yeah, I never had an iPod. I went from 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:30.000 Walkman to iPhone. 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:34.040 I guess I had the first iPod. 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:35.080 Wow. 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:38.000 So yeah, I had the first, not the you know, 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:41.159 not Steve Jobs's iPod, but you know, the first, the 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:43.960 first edition. I still have it. It still works. 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:46.159 Oh do you really? Wow, that's really saying something. 0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:48.240 Yeah. I put pictures of it on my Instagram not 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:50.199 too long ago actually, because I found it, charged it, 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:53.719 and I just put up the opening screen because you know, 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:56.719 the first Walkman had everything in alphabetical order just on 0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:59.240