WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: The Annecy Shootings 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.320 This episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought to you 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:05.880 by our Facebook Interpretive Dance team. Instead, it's brought to 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:08.639 you by meeting us at crime Con. That's right, crime 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:13.200 Con Nashville, Tennessee, USA, May four through six. We're gonna 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:16.360 have a live show. There's still day tickets available and 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:18.480 if you go to crime con dot com and use 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:21.200 the promo code sideways, you'll get a good deal on 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:23.840 those day passes. Also, we're doing a meet up in 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:27.760 Nashville venue to be determined Saturday night. Plan on being there. 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:31.920 They might probably be a pretty exciting surprise there, so 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:34.639 stay tuned for that. So go to crime Con dot 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:36.639 com to get your tickets, use the promo code sideways. 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:40.519 We'll see you there. This episode is also brought to 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:44.320 you by Stitcher Premium. That's right, we're on Stitcher Premium. 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:47.239 If you want to get ad free content, early and 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:51.479 bonus content, feel free to join us on Stitcher Premium. 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:54.160 You can go to stitcher dot com slash Thinking sideways 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:57.000 and use the code sideways for one month free. So 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:01.560 stitcher dot com slash Thinking sideways, use the sideways and 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:10.760 uh yeah, you know you want to so get on it. 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:29.240 Hi There Welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:35.119 am Joe, joined as always by and and of course 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:39.600 we're going to talk about a mystery. Yeah, okay, So 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:42.520 this week we're going to talk about a little mass 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:45.840 murder that happened about five years ago in France. This 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:47.320 has been in the news actually quite a bit, so 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:50.080 you may have heard of. It happened September in the 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:54.520 French Alps, several miles south of Lake Annessee, which I'm 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:58.840 probably mispronouncing. Oh yeah, now it's time for the the warning. Uh, 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:01.360 this contains a lot of French words which I'm gonna 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:05.200 be mispronounced. That's we did our best, but it's yeah, 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.239 it's hard to make it stick, is wed? Yeah, yeah 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:12.720 it is. Yeah. The listener discretion is advised. Okay, Yeah, 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:17.200 that's all. That's all. Yeah, I don't don't that's my 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:23.120 French right there. Yeah, okay, back to Lake Annessey. So, um, 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:25.880 Lake Annessey. Is this really beautiful lake. I don't know 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:27.320 if you guys took a look at it on Google 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:29.880 or like that really really beautiful place and in the 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:33.280 Alps and about forty miles not not even forty miles, 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:37.000 twenty miles south of Geneva, Switzerland, way over the east 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:40.200 of France. Of course, the mystery I'm talking about, of course, 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:43.840 is the Annecy shootings. Also knows the Chevaline killings, because 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:46.000 that's the little village that it was kind of close to. 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:47.440 Before you go any further, I want to give a 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:49.960 hat tip to a few of our listeners who suggested 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:54.120 this topic, actually Annie and some others. I know a 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:56.000 lot of people have suggested this to us, but when 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:57.760 I looked on the list, I only saw Anny's name 0:02:57.760 --> 0:02:59.480 on it, So all the rest of you, hey, thanks. 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:02.960 So this is a popular one and I've been following 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:04.919 the story for a while now, and it recently is 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:06.640 popped up back in the news because they have a 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:08.840 new suspect. I don't know if you guys noticed that 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:11.840 or not, but it's I'm still looking to be like, 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.440 they're not going to solve it anytime soon, I don't think, 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:19.280 which is why we're confidently doing an episode on it. Yeah. 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:21.560 I think so very excited for it to be solved 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:24.240 a week before we released YEA, that wouldn't that be? Yeah, 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:26.560 I would be a great track record. Every week we 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:28.440 go to put one out and they solve it. The week. 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:32.840 You know what I was gonna say, genuinely, I really 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:35.440 would though, because that would just mean, you know, so 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:37.880 much less pain in this world for people. So that's true. 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:39.360 It would be a good thing and just be more 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:42.400 pain for us but less for other people. Okay whatever. Oh, 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:45.480 let's talk about our protagonists in this story. They would 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:48.040 be the al Hilly family who lived in Claygate, which 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:51.120 is in England. It's west of Croydon, northwest of Epsom, 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:53.440 so you know exactly where it is, right south of 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:58.800 Squickenham and north of East Horsley, about fifty kilometers southwest 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:01.839 of London. Yeah. The al Hilly family was Sad hal 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:05.280 Hilly fifty years old born in Iraq that I think. 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:07.560 I believe his family moved to England when he was 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:09.760 about nine years old. I think he might have been 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:11.960 slightly younger than that, but it was somewhere he was 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:14.119 he was a young boy. Yeah, he was very young 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:16.960 and along with his brother's aid and his dad. Kadim 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:21.360 Sad is our first protagonist in Ikball forty seven. His wife, 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:23.120 who was a dentist side by the way, it was 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:28.400 an engineer. So Hala Alaf seventy four was was Ball's mother. 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:32.479 On the b Sad's mother in law, and then their 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:38.000 two daughters, Zeneb and Zena, who were seven and four respectively. Yes. 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:41.200 Also president of our crime scene was Sylvan more Molier, 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:44.479 forty five years old, a French guy, a little a 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:48.160 little background here on the al hillis and and Molier. 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:50.720 Sad was born in her acts I said, his family 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:54.719 moved to England. His brothers Zaid, still lives in London. Sad, 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:57.400 as I said, was an engineer who quote worked on 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:01.640 satellite systems. It's a little vague exactly what he did, 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:06.719 but apparently he worked for Seri Satellite Technology Ltd. And 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:09.960 as employers said that his work did not involved classified stuff, 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:12.440 so it's not like he was working on super secret spots. 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:15.320 The satellite industry is like a lot of industries. It's 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:18.400 pretty broad. It could be weather satellite, it could be 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:24.000 the guy worked for a satellite TV company, and you know, 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:27.640 I think he was a little more higher up than that, 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:30.880 but I think that, yeah, yeah, so and then and 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:33.600 the Ball. His wife was a dentist who I believe 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:35.960 but I can't swear on this, was educated in Dubai 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:39.919 and she'd been married before to an American and James 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:43.279 Thompson from Mississippi. According to accounts that I've read, she 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:45.000 married the guy just to get her green card. It 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:46.800 was kind of a marriage of convenience. I don't think 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:49.599 it was even consummated. Things didn't work out, unfortunately for 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:53.440 in America, because her credentials didn't qualify her to work 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:55.919 as an actual dentist, and she had to be a 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:59.080 dental assistant, which she found kind of you know the meaning, 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:02.159 I guess, or at least low paying. Yeah. It's like 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:04.839 the doctor that you meet from another country who's driving 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:09.920 cabs in this country because we don't recognize the all 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:13.440 the schooling he did in his home country. It's pretty sad, 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:16.039 kind of a waste really. As I said, things didn't 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:19.400 work out eventually, I while moved back to Dubai later married. 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:23.560 So did they meet in Dubai. I'm not sure exactly. Yeah, 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.600 that's a good question. Uh, and then we'll talk about 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:29.600 the of course, the two met in England. Yeah, it 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:32.719 might be. I remember reading about where they met, and 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:34.880 I really feel like they met in England. But I 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.280 could told me very well, be true, as that's that's 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:39.840 one aspect of the story. I didn't actually research too heavily. 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:42.680 I read it in passing and I thought okay, and 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:46.320 then it's of course immediately escaped me. And this has 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:48.240 actually been much covered in the press and a lot 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:52.120 of contradictory accounts. So yeah, yeah, probably depends on how 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:55.159 they want to frame the story. Yeah. And then also 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:58.279 our French guy, Sylvan Mola, I'm probably mispronouncing that, but 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:01.000 he worked at a company called Cesar, which refines and 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:05.000 cast various exotic metals into billets and such for machining 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:09.000 into nuclear reactor parts. U But he was a welder. 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:11.480 Well yeah, Initially in the press though he was he 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:13.400 was put it was he was supposed to be like 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:16.560 a metallurgist or maybe a senior production manager, and eventually 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:19.320 came out the because those are juicy positions to write about. Yeah, 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:22.360 well there juicy because maybe he had nuclear secrets that's 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:24.280 why he got murdered, you know. But it turns out 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:26.520 he was a welder, which, by the way, that's not 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:30.080 that's not necessarily a low paying, low skilled that's high 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:33.880 paying work, right, and highly skilled. But I knew a 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:36.239 guy who used to go around the world and helped 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:40.920 construct nuclear reactors all over the world. He made gobs 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:45.880 of money, but it's not really classified unlikely that you 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:48.040 would encounter something in the course of your work that 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:51.480 would make you a high value target. He was a 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:54.840 welder and he turned big wrenches, which is just a 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:58.280 very similar to this guy. Yeah, yeah, So anyway, he 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:00.920 did seem to have money though, because he was riding 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:06.840 a five thousand euro bike, so yeah, he was yeah, bicycle, 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:10.560 not motorcycle. So Molier had been married. He had two 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:12.840 kids by his previous wife, but he had left her 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:14.400 by the time of his death. He had a new 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:17.360 girlfriend and they had just had a baby. Girlfriend's name 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:20.480 was Claire Shutz, and I believe they were they've been 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:25.040 together two years death, Yeah, about two years. Yeah, alright, 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:27.200 so let's start our story. And as you can guess, 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:30.640 there's gonna be some some killing here. Why we got 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:34.880 a yeah, why we've got ourselves a mystery? So, uh, 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:38.080 I start at the beginning here September twelve, two thousand 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:40.640 and twelve. The al Hilly family, we were kind of 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:43.840 road tripping through France. They had they had come across 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:46.800 the channel to Calais, France, and then we're driving across 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:49.760 the country. They had like a BMW station wagon with 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:53.080 the big trailer behind it, and then never and so 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.720 they were camping at the south shore of Lake Annessey. 0:08:56.360 --> 0:09:00.920 He said, his East France. Car camping, not really camping camping, Yeah, 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:02.840 of course, I don't know. I mean, their trailer was 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:05.800 not huge. So with five people in that trailer, maybe 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:08.800 someone did pitch at tamp you still I think not 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:12.120 that this matters at all, But I think even if 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:14.800 you're in a tent that you just unpacked from your car, 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:18.320 it's still car camping technically if you haven't hiked in, 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:21.840 you know, you're one of those purest I forgot. Yeah, 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:26.040 sorry everyone, that's that's true. Yeah, but some people do consider, 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:28.240 you know, going out in a trailer to be camping. 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:31.400 It's not. Well, it's car camping. I don't Yeah, yeah, 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:37.199 it's called a camper dude off. Yeah, nothing wrong with that. 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:41.480 Whatever makes and whatever helps you access nature, Yeah, and 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:42.839 go out and it's a great way to go out 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:47.000 and see Europe or somewhat cheaper and with two young children, 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:50.440 it makes a lot of sense totally. So there, their 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:53.000 trailer was parked to the campground at the south end 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:55.640 of the lake. Lake. That's Lake Annessey, which is kind 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:58.640 of a long, narrow north south lake and by the way, 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.320 very pretty, as I've already said, but I'll say it again. Yeah, 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:04.520 really nice. I really would like to go there. Uh. 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:07.440 They got in their car that afternoon to drive around 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:10.000 do a little sight seeing. And this is important they 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.760 left the trailer at the campsite because I initially did 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:16.720 not pick that up, and the story later on became confusing. 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:20.760 When I presume they were still towing, that would have 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:23.080 made things even worse for them. Not that things Yeah, 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:25.040 I don't know how much worse they could have gotten actually, 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:27.400 come to think of it. They said they drove south 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:30.679 from the lake to the village of Dussard. When they 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:33.040 talk about at least one picture, which is how we 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:34.800 know they were there, they found at the time and 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:37.000 date stamp on the photo when their in their camera 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:40.800 police did That was three pm. And from there they 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:44.280 continued south to the village of Sheveling and the main 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:46.720 roads through the village. You can see this on on 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:49.240 the area as it goes south through the village and 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:51.199 at the south end of town it goes past the 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:53.800 farm and a big barn sort of heads up into 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:57.960 the hills and it's very narrow and it's it's it's 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:00.880 in the cleft of two mountain. Yeah, it's in a 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:03.640 little valley and there's a there's a stream running alongside 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:06.160 and everything, and it actually goes back and forth across 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:09.680 the stream, crosses a lot of bridges and stuff. Very beautiful, yeah, 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:12.319 really nice and uh but it goes up for several 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:15.920 kilometers into the hills before it dead ends. And as 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:18.000 you say, it doesn't doesn't quite dead end, but it 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:21.319 reaches a small parking area and past that point, motor 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:24.120 vehicles are not allowed, so you would hike, get out 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:25.880 and take a little walk a little bit. I and 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:28.640 I originally I thought what was is it reached actually 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:30.840 kind of a turnaround, an actual dead end, and then 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:33.080 from there they were like trails that you can hike on. 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:35.000 But I don't know if you guys looked at it 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:37.839 on street view saying the coordinates and and actually the 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:40.360 road continues, it does. He's just not supposed to drive 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:43.360 down it anymore, I believe. Didn't they don't they like 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:45.440 kept logs in front of it or something like that 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:49.480 to keep drivers from going through. Uh not, No, not 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:51.200 in the street view that I saw. Maybe they have 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:54.360 sense sens Okay. I remember reading something about the fact 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:57.360 that they were quote unquote trees in the way and 0:11:57.400 --> 0:11:59.240 they were like, yeah, we're not gonna do anything about 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.559 that because we don't want you to drive there. Oh yeah, no, 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:03.960 that was there was a big article written, I think 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:06.160 it was in g Q one the guy wanted to 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:08.160 drive up there. Yeah, and that's where that's why I 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:11.480 got the impression that those trees were down at after 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:14.720 that turnaround. No, actually they were well before that. There 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:16.720 was there was there were some trees down. And then 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:18.760 then the guy goes back to town and some talks 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:20.440 to some girl in the cafe and she says, yeah, 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:23.319 nobody really goes up there, so you know, so we're 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:27.440 not that motivated. But anyway, they're up that road along 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:30.320 about three fift British tourist on a bicycle was heading 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:32.720 up that same road, heading south out of Chevlin. His 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:35.960 name was Brett Martin, former former pilot with the Royal 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:40.800 Air Force. Uh and yeah, yeah British. Yeah. He had 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:44.080 a like a summer vacation home nearby and he was 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:48.160 past also going south by a French cyclist named Silvan Molier, 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:51.080 who will you recognize? I mentioned it before and he 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:54.240 was on his very expensive racing bike as I mentioned. 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:57.280 Oh yeah, when you said it earlier, I thought you 0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:00.800 said five thousand year old and I was like, that 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:03.920 sounds wrong, but maybe I'm just going to roll with it. 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:09.720 Like euro was it cost five thousand euros? Very expensive? 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:12.920 God would that would be totally cool, out of place, 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:19.720 artific mystery for us. I was just gonnaycle. It's probably 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.959 my fault. It's probably my core annuciation. But yeah, his 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:26.760 bike costs. His bicycle costs five thousand euros according to 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:28.880 one story that I read, which is kind of a 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:30.960 shame for for a mala, because if he had a 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.520 heavier bike like my Trek seventy three hundred, which is 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.040 a hybrid, he probably would have gotten up to the 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:37.520 end of the road later and that might have worked 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:41.200 out a little differently for him. That's called foreshadow. Yeah, 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:44.160 so we need one of these, don't don't done? Yeah, 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:46.560 I was just wondering why he was doing brand placements 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.240 so much. He apparently has a sponsorship. He's not telling you. 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:52.640 Apparently make a little money on the side. Yeah, it's 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:54.320 just how he's paying off the bike. You know that 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:57.360 the Europeans are actually paying me to promote the euro 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:00.200 which is not doing so well these days. Okay, but 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:02.600 back to our story. The al Hilly family came along 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.679 in their BMW station wagon. Shortly after that, they passed 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:08.000 Brett and Martin going up the hill. It's not actually 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:10.280 totally clear who got to the end of the road first, 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:13.680 if it was Malier or the al Hillies, but pretty 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.480 close to the same time. And this was around three 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:18.839 thirty pm. Uh And, as I said before, there's what 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:22.520 they call it lay by, also a white spot essentially, 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:24.640 and yeah, that's what it is. It's just a wide 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:26.720 gravel spot where you can pull off and park your car. 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:30.080 Uh So I'd pulled his car into that white spot, 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.320 nose into the bank ninety degrees to the road, which 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:35.920 violates my number one rule about parking and hicky spots, 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:37.960 which as you turned the car around right so you 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:39.960 can make a quick getaway. He didn't do that. But 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:42.120 actually it's on StreetView it looks like a really pleasant 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:43.680 little spot. So you know, it's not the kind of 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:47.440 spot you'd really worry about getting fire terror arrival. Now, 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:49.960 it's not that it doesn't look like that kind of place, really, 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:54.400 So he parks side and Zena Zenab his seven year 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:57.120 old daughter, get out of the car, and the sequence 0:14:57.160 --> 0:14:59.920 of events is a little uncertain. After this, it appears 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.840 that they were close to Mala, so you know, it 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:04.840 might be that they were just saying hi, nice day 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:08.000 something like that to him. Uh and uh. And then 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:12.240 apparently a crazy gunman with the Lugar Lugar pistol pops 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:15.600 into the scene and opens fire. It looks like zanneb 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:20.400 and Molier were shot first, Yeah, and cyclists and the 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:23.720 cyclist and the French cyclist and and then the crime 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:26.320 scene was reconstructed using all kinds of things like shell 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.200 case things and the blood on people's soles of their 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:32.080 feet and various things. So they sort of established because 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.560 it turns it turns into kind of a messy scene. Yeah, 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:36.520 there were quite a few shots fired, a lot of Yeah, 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:39.160 but even the police are not acent certain that they 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:43.560 have the actual sequence down. But are the best guests 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.600 the best guess. The cyclist and the daughter gets shot, yeah, Maia, 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:48.960 once dad went down. I'm not sure about Zanne. She 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:51.440 got shot in the shoulder. Uh. And then so I 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:53.640 grabbed her, dragged her towards the car. And this is 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:55.920 again I've read three different versions of this. One was 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:58.480 he just left her and ran for the car. Another 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:00.360 one is he grabbed her and drags her back to 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:02.160 the car and then and I think you found one 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:05.560 scene that said he actually actually got her into the car. Yeah. Yeah, 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:08.200 as he got as side got into the driver's seat, 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:10.880 he was shot in the lower back and he starts 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:13.440 the car, slams it reverse, cracks the wheel the left 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:14.880 and floors it. And you can see in the air 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.760 there's some helicopter shots of the spot. You can see 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.200 that the car did a nice tight little semi circle 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.560 one eight until it slams into the bank. The rear 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.440 end of the slams into the bank, and that's where 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:29.920 it stayed. And I'm not sure if it got stuck. 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:33.000 According to one account that I read, when Brett Martin 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:34.960 got to the scene, he said it was still in 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:37.960 reverse and the wheels were still turning it. Well, I 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.360 sent you that image. Yeah, I found it. I saw 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:42.600 the image to where it is definitely dug in. It 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.560 is totally dug in, and you can tell that there's 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:47.560 all the dirt has been flung away from the tire. 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:49.920 It looks as if it's just it would have been 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.240 free spinning at that point. Yeah. I mean he might 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:54.920 have just sat there because he might have been passed 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:58.520 out from shock or blood loss or just being It 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.800 really doesn't matter if if you slam the ass end 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:04.040 of your vehicle into an embankment enough to pick the 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:06.560 tires up a little bit, and the groundunderneath is soft 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:09.960 and you were pounding on the accelerator, you're gonna quickly 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:13.000 dig a hole. And you could be completely conscious, and 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:15.639 you're still going to be unable to move because you 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:17.919 got no traction because it's two wheel dry. Yeah, but 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:21.320 if the wheels were still spinning one um, yes his 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:24.239 name had shown up, that would be you know, if 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.600 somebody passed out, if it's in gear at that point, 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.480 they're still going to be spinning. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, that's 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:32.440 that's what I heard. But then again I've heard I've 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:36.080 also heard that it was in neutral and he that 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:40.360 semicircle made the car also run over. Yeah, he ran over, 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.560 it ran over the French cycle was ye. Poor guy. 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:46.440 He was having a rough day. Like I said, dude, 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:51.439 next time trek. Alright, So our gunman steps to the 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:54.520 front of the car and he shot side again. Side 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:56.359 was shot four times, twice to the head, and then 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:59.080 the ball in Sula the mother in law were also 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:02.480 shot several times. Then it appears that our perpetrator walked 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:05.720 over to Molier and shot him again. So in all, 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:10.800 SidD I Ball, Shila and Molier were shot four, four, 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:15.520 three and five times respectively. You in the head each person, 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:20.240 each one got two in the head, yeah, which is yeah, 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.560 well it's it's a that's prompted some sterizing about it 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:25.040 being a professional yet. Yeah. And Zanna of course was 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:28.120 shot once in the shoulder. She wasn't quite dead, so 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:31.840 there was something some trauma to her head, wasn't there. Yea. 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:33.840 He smashed her over the head at least once with 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:37.240 the butt of his gun pretty hard apparently, and we 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:41.200 broke the he broke the grip of the grip of yeah. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:45.560 so that requires a pretty severe blow. Well, yeah, that's 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:48.719 intriguing because if you look at a luger, and this 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:51.560 was a luger, they you know, they've established that apparently 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:53.520 on the piece of the grip that was broke off, 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:56.800 look at the luger. It's actually the grip is kind 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:58.680 of up a little bit from the botto, from the butt, 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:01.080 the butt of it, so not actually when hitting somebody, 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:03.399 not even hitting the grip on anything anyway, Well, he 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:05.520 could have it could have already been sort of aged 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:11.119 and cracked and could pistol whip there. Yeah, just yeah, 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:14.560 which is really traumatizing and horrible, but well it's not. Yeah, 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:16.920 she had a traumatizing enough time without getting bashed in 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:19.719 the head. Yeah, well with yeah, without any of that. 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:24.080 But wasn't there also another child? There was another child? Yeah, 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:26.879 But anyway, the last thing about the grip sell off. 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:29.320 Of course the police did pick those up later, and 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:31.399 that's not allowed them to identify the gun as a 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:36.199 Swiss made P zero six thirty two caliber luger. As 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:38.560 I'm sure you're all familiar with what a luger is. 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:41.440 They're color classic. Yeah, you see him in all the 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:45.439 World War two movies. Yeah, he's the classic handgun of 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.160 the German army. Yeah. And they're they're actually really cool. 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:51.680 They're they're weird, but the cool. They're as iconic as 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:55.399 the PP seven, the p P seven isn't that what 0:19:55.520 --> 0:20:01.600 James Bond uses? How much I know about the guns? 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:05.280 Gun Nut for Oh no, she just made that up. 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:10.439 I was closed. Come on, we happen to know there 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:14.639 actually is a piece seven pistol, that's what. It doesn't matter. Yeah, no, 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:16.040 it doesn't matter. But you were asking if there was 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:19.560 another kid. Yeah, at first we forgot about zena aged four, 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:23.120 who was in the back seat with her mother. And uh, 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:24.600 you know, I don't know if her mom shoved her 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:26.520 behind her legs or she just took it, took the 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:29.119 initiative and did it herself. But she hid behind her 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:31.560 mother's legs. Her mom was wearing a long skirt, so 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:33.960 she hid there behind her mother and was not seen 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:36.840 by the gunman. And she stayed there for a long time. 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:40.240