1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,320
Speaker 1: This episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought to you

2
00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:05,880
Speaker 1: by our Facebook Interpretive Dance team. Instead, it's brought to

3
00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,639
Speaker 1: you by meeting us at crime Con. That's right, crime

4
00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:13,200
Speaker 1: Con Nashville, Tennessee, USA, May four through six. We're gonna

5
00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,360
Speaker 1: have a live show. There's still day tickets available and

6
00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:18,480
Speaker 1: if you go to crime con dot com and use

7
00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,200
Speaker 1: the promo code sideways, you'll get a good deal on

8
00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:23,840
Speaker 1: those day passes. Also, we're doing a meet up in

9
00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,760
Speaker 1: Nashville venue to be determined Saturday night. Plan on being there.

10
00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,920
Speaker 1: They might probably be a pretty exciting surprise there, so

11
00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,639
Speaker 1: stay tuned for that. So go to crime Con dot

12
00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:36,639
Speaker 1: com to get your tickets, use the promo code sideways.

13
00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:40,519
Speaker 1: We'll see you there. This episode is also brought to

14
00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,320
Speaker 1: you by Stitcher Premium. That's right, we're on Stitcher Premium.

15
00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,239
Speaker 1: If you want to get ad free content, early and

16
00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:51,479
Speaker 1: bonus content, feel free to join us on Stitcher Premium.

17
00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:54,160
Speaker 1: You can go to stitcher dot com slash Thinking sideways

18
00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,000
Speaker 1: and use the code sideways for one month free. So

19
00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:01,560
Speaker 1: stitcher dot com slash Thinking sideways, use the sideways and

20
00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:10,760
Speaker 1: uh yeah, you know you want to so get on it.

21
00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:29,240
Speaker 1: Hi There Welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I

22
00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:35,119
Speaker 1: am Joe, joined as always by and and of course

23
00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:39,600
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about a mystery. Yeah, okay, So

24
00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,520
Speaker 1: this week we're going to talk about a little mass

25
00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,840
Speaker 1: murder that happened about five years ago in France. This

26
00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:47,320
Speaker 1: has been in the news actually quite a bit, so

27
00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,080
Speaker 1: you may have heard of. It happened September in the

28
00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:54,520
Speaker 1: French Alps, several miles south of Lake Annessee, which I'm

29
00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,840
Speaker 1: probably mispronouncing. Oh yeah, now it's time for the the warning. Uh,

30
00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:01,360
Speaker 1: this contains a lot of French words which I'm gonna

31
00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,200
Speaker 1: be mispronounced. That's we did our best, but it's yeah,

32
00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,239
Speaker 1: it's hard to make it stick, is wed? Yeah, yeah

33
00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:12,720
Speaker 1: it is. Yeah. The listener discretion is advised. Okay, Yeah,

34
00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:17,200
Speaker 1: that's all. That's all. Yeah, I don't don't that's my

35
00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:23,120
Speaker 1: French right there. Yeah, okay, back to Lake Annessey. So, um,

36
00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,880
Speaker 1: Lake Annessey. Is this really beautiful lake. I don't know

37
00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:27,320
Speaker 1: if you guys took a look at it on Google

38
00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,880
Speaker 1: or like that really really beautiful place and in the

39
00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,280
Speaker 1: Alps and about forty miles not not even forty miles,

40
00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:37,000
Speaker 1: twenty miles south of Geneva, Switzerland, way over the east

41
00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,200
Speaker 1: of France. Of course, the mystery I'm talking about, of course,

42
00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,840
Speaker 1: is the Annecy shootings. Also knows the Chevaline killings, because

43
00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,000
Speaker 1: that's the little village that it was kind of close to.

44
00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:47,440
Speaker 1: Before you go any further, I want to give a

45
00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:49,960
Speaker 1: hat tip to a few of our listeners who suggested

46
00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:54,120
Speaker 1: this topic, actually Annie and some others. I know a

47
00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,000
Speaker 1: lot of people have suggested this to us, but when

48
00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:57,760
Speaker 1: I looked on the list, I only saw Anny's name

49
00:02:57,760 --> 00:02:59,480
Speaker 1: on it, So all the rest of you, hey, thanks.

50
00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,960
Speaker 1: So this is a popular one and I've been following

51
00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:04,919
Speaker 1: the story for a while now, and it recently is

52
00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:06,640
Speaker 1: popped up back in the news because they have a

53
00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,840
Speaker 1: new suspect. I don't know if you guys noticed that

54
00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,840
Speaker 1: or not, but it's I'm still looking to be like,

55
00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,440
Speaker 1: they're not going to solve it anytime soon, I don't think,

56
00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:19,280
Speaker 1: which is why we're confidently doing an episode on it. Yeah.

57
00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,560
Speaker 1: I think so very excited for it to be solved

58
00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,240
Speaker 1: a week before we released YEA, that wouldn't that be? Yeah,

59
00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,560
Speaker 1: I would be a great track record. Every week we

60
00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,440
Speaker 1: go to put one out and they solve it. The week.

61
00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:32,840
Speaker 1: You know what I was gonna say, genuinely, I really

62
00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,440
Speaker 1: would though, because that would just mean, you know, so

63
00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:37,880
Speaker 1: much less pain in this world for people. So that's true.

64
00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:39,360
Speaker 1: It would be a good thing and just be more

65
00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,400
Speaker 1: pain for us but less for other people. Okay whatever. Oh,

66
00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,480
Speaker 1: let's talk about our protagonists in this story. They would

67
00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,040
Speaker 1: be the al Hilly family who lived in Claygate, which

68
00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,120
Speaker 1: is in England. It's west of Croydon, northwest of Epsom,

69
00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,440
Speaker 1: so you know exactly where it is, right south of

70
00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:58,800
Speaker 1: Squickenham and north of East Horsley, about fifty kilometers southwest

71
00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,839
Speaker 1: of London. Yeah. The al Hilly family was Sad hal

72
00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,280
Speaker 1: Hilly fifty years old born in Iraq that I think.

73
00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,560
Speaker 1: I believe his family moved to England when he was

74
00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,760
Speaker 1: about nine years old. I think he might have been

75
00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:11,960
Speaker 1: slightly younger than that, but it was somewhere he was

76
00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,119
Speaker 1: he was a young boy. Yeah, he was very young

77
00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,960
Speaker 1: and along with his brother's aid and his dad. Kadim

78
00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:21,360
Speaker 1: Sad is our first protagonist in Ikball forty seven. His wife,

79
00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,120
Speaker 1: who was a dentist side by the way, it was

80
00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:28,400
Speaker 1: an engineer. So Hala Alaf seventy four was was Ball's mother.

81
00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,479
Speaker 1: On the b Sad's mother in law, and then their

82
00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:38,000
Speaker 1: two daughters, Zeneb and Zena, who were seven and four respectively. Yes.

83
00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,200
Speaker 1: Also president of our crime scene was Sylvan more Molier,

84
00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,479
Speaker 1: forty five years old, a French guy, a little a

85
00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:48,160
Speaker 1: little background here on the al hillis and and Molier.

86
00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:50,720
Speaker 1: Sad was born in her acts I said, his family

87
00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,719
Speaker 1: moved to England. His brothers Zaid, still lives in London. Sad,

88
00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,400
Speaker 1: as I said, was an engineer who quote worked on

89
00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,640
Speaker 1: satellite systems. It's a little vague exactly what he did,

90
00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:06,719
Speaker 1: but apparently he worked for Seri Satellite Technology Ltd. And

91
00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,960
Speaker 1: as employers said that his work did not involved classified stuff,

92
00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,440
Speaker 1: so it's not like he was working on super secret spots.

93
00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,320
Speaker 1: The satellite industry is like a lot of industries. It's

94
00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,400
Speaker 1: pretty broad. It could be weather satellite, it could be

95
00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:24,000
Speaker 1: the guy worked for a satellite TV company, and you know,

96
00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,640
Speaker 1: I think he was a little more higher up than that,

97
00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,880
Speaker 1: but I think that, yeah, yeah, so and then and

98
00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,600
Speaker 1: the Ball. His wife was a dentist who I believe

99
00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:35,960
Speaker 1: but I can't swear on this, was educated in Dubai

100
00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,919
Speaker 1: and she'd been married before to an American and James

101
00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,279
Speaker 1: Thompson from Mississippi. According to accounts that I've read, she

102
00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:45,000
Speaker 1: married the guy just to get her green card. It

103
00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:46,800
Speaker 1: was kind of a marriage of convenience. I don't think

104
00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,599
Speaker 1: it was even consummated. Things didn't work out, unfortunately for

105
00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,440
Speaker 1: in America, because her credentials didn't qualify her to work

106
00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,919
Speaker 1: as an actual dentist, and she had to be a

107
00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,080
Speaker 1: dental assistant, which she found kind of you know the meaning,

108
00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,159
Speaker 1: I guess, or at least low paying. Yeah. It's like

109
00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,839
Speaker 1: the doctor that you meet from another country who's driving

110
00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:09,920
Speaker 1: cabs in this country because we don't recognize the all

111
00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,440
Speaker 1: the schooling he did in his home country. It's pretty sad,

112
00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,039
Speaker 1: kind of a waste really. As I said, things didn't

113
00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,400
Speaker 1: work out eventually, I while moved back to Dubai later married.

114
00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,560
Speaker 1: So did they meet in Dubai. I'm not sure exactly. Yeah,

115
00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,600
Speaker 1: that's a good question. Uh, and then we'll talk about

116
00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,600
Speaker 1: the of course, the two met in England. Yeah, it

117
00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,719
Speaker 1: might be. I remember reading about where they met, and

118
00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:34,880
Speaker 1: I really feel like they met in England. But I

119
00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,280
Speaker 1: could told me very well, be true, as that's that's

120
00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,840
Speaker 1: one aspect of the story. I didn't actually research too heavily.

121
00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:42,680
Speaker 1: I read it in passing and I thought okay, and

122
00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:46,320
Speaker 1: then it's of course immediately escaped me. And this has

123
00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:48,240
Speaker 1: actually been much covered in the press and a lot

124
00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:52,120
Speaker 1: of contradictory accounts. So yeah, yeah, probably depends on how

125
00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,159
Speaker 1: they want to frame the story. Yeah. And then also

126
00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,279
Speaker 1: our French guy, Sylvan Mola, I'm probably mispronouncing that, but

127
00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,000
Speaker 1: he worked at a company called Cesar, which refines and

128
00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:05,000
Speaker 1: cast various exotic metals into billets and such for machining

129
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:09,000
Speaker 1: into nuclear reactor parts. U But he was a welder.

130
00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:11,480
Speaker 1: Well yeah, Initially in the press though he was he

131
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,400
Speaker 1: was put it was he was supposed to be like

132
00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,560
Speaker 1: a metallurgist or maybe a senior production manager, and eventually

133
00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,320
Speaker 1: came out the because those are juicy positions to write about. Yeah,

134
00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,360
Speaker 1: well there juicy because maybe he had nuclear secrets that's

135
00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,280
Speaker 1: why he got murdered, you know. But it turns out

136
00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,520
Speaker 1: he was a welder, which, by the way, that's not

137
00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,080
Speaker 1: that's not necessarily a low paying, low skilled that's high

138
00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,880
Speaker 1: paying work, right, and highly skilled. But I knew a

139
00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,239
Speaker 1: guy who used to go around the world and helped

140
00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,920
Speaker 1: construct nuclear reactors all over the world. He made gobs

141
00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:45,880
Speaker 1: of money, but it's not really classified unlikely that you

142
00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,040
Speaker 1: would encounter something in the course of your work that

143
00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,480
Speaker 1: would make you a high value target. He was a

144
00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,840
Speaker 1: welder and he turned big wrenches, which is just a

145
00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,280
Speaker 1: very similar to this guy. Yeah, yeah, So anyway, he

146
00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:00,920
Speaker 1: did seem to have money though, because he was riding

147
00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:06,840
Speaker 1: a five thousand euro bike, so yeah, he was yeah, bicycle,

148
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:10,560
Speaker 1: not motorcycle. So Molier had been married. He had two

149
00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:12,840
Speaker 1: kids by his previous wife, but he had left her

150
00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:14,400
Speaker 1: by the time of his death. He had a new

151
00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,360
Speaker 1: girlfriend and they had just had a baby. Girlfriend's name

152
00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,480
Speaker 1: was Claire Shutz, and I believe they were they've been

153
00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:25,040
Speaker 1: together two years death, Yeah, about two years. Yeah, alright,

154
00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,200
Speaker 1: so let's start our story. And as you can guess,

155
00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,640
Speaker 1: there's gonna be some some killing here. Why we got

156
00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:34,880
Speaker 1: a yeah, why we've got ourselves a mystery? So, uh,

157
00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,080
Speaker 1: I start at the beginning here September twelve, two thousand

158
00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,640
Speaker 1: and twelve. The al Hilly family, we were kind of

159
00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,840
Speaker 1: road tripping through France. They had they had come across

160
00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,800
Speaker 1: the channel to Calais, France, and then we're driving across

161
00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,760
Speaker 1: the country. They had like a BMW station wagon with

162
00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,080
Speaker 1: the big trailer behind it, and then never and so

163
00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,720
Speaker 1: they were camping at the south shore of Lake Annessey.

164
00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:00,920
Speaker 1: He said, his East France. Car camping, not really camping camping, Yeah,

165
00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:02,840
Speaker 1: of course, I don't know. I mean, their trailer was

166
00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,800
Speaker 1: not huge. So with five people in that trailer, maybe

167
00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,800
Speaker 1: someone did pitch at tamp you still I think not

168
00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,120
Speaker 1: that this matters at all, But I think even if

169
00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,800
Speaker 1: you're in a tent that you just unpacked from your car,

170
00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,320
Speaker 1: it's still car camping technically if you haven't hiked in,

171
00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,840
Speaker 1: you know, you're one of those purest I forgot. Yeah,

172
00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:26,040
Speaker 1: sorry everyone, that's that's true. Yeah, but some people do consider,

173
00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,240
Speaker 1: you know, going out in a trailer to be camping.

174
00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,400
Speaker 1: It's not. Well, it's car camping. I don't Yeah, yeah,

175
00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:37,199
Speaker 1: it's called a camper dude off. Yeah, nothing wrong with that.

176
00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,480
Speaker 1: Whatever makes and whatever helps you access nature, Yeah, and

177
00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:42,839
Speaker 1: go out and it's a great way to go out

178
00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:47,000
Speaker 1: and see Europe or somewhat cheaper and with two young children,

179
00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,440
Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense totally. So there, their

180
00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,000
Speaker 1: trailer was parked to the campground at the south end

181
00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,640
Speaker 1: of the lake. Lake. That's Lake Annessey, which is kind

182
00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,640
Speaker 1: of a long, narrow north south lake and by the way,

183
00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,320
Speaker 1: very pretty, as I've already said, but I'll say it again. Yeah,

184
00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,520
Speaker 1: really nice. I really would like to go there. Uh.

185
00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,440
Speaker 1: They got in their car that afternoon to drive around

186
00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,000
Speaker 1: do a little sight seeing. And this is important they

187
00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,760
Speaker 1: left the trailer at the campsite because I initially did

188
00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,720
Speaker 1: not pick that up, and the story later on became confusing.

189
00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:20,760
Speaker 1: When I presume they were still towing, that would have

190
00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,080
Speaker 1: made things even worse for them. Not that things Yeah,

191
00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,040
Speaker 1: I don't know how much worse they could have gotten actually,

192
00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,400
Speaker 1: come to think of it. They said they drove south

193
00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,679
Speaker 1: from the lake to the village of Dussard. When they

194
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,040
Speaker 1: talk about at least one picture, which is how we

195
00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:34,800
Speaker 1: know they were there, they found at the time and

196
00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,000
Speaker 1: date stamp on the photo when their in their camera

197
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,800
Speaker 1: police did That was three pm. And from there they

198
00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,280
Speaker 1: continued south to the village of Sheveling and the main

199
00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,720
Speaker 1: roads through the village. You can see this on on

200
00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,240
Speaker 1: the area as it goes south through the village and

201
00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,199
Speaker 1: at the south end of town it goes past the

202
00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,800
Speaker 1: farm and a big barn sort of heads up into

203
00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,960
Speaker 1: the hills and it's very narrow and it's it's it's

204
00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,880
Speaker 1: in the cleft of two mountain. Yeah, it's in a

205
00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,640
Speaker 1: little valley and there's a there's a stream running alongside

206
00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,160
Speaker 1: and everything, and it actually goes back and forth across

207
00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,680
Speaker 1: the stream, crosses a lot of bridges and stuff. Very beautiful, yeah,

208
00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,319
Speaker 1: really nice and uh but it goes up for several

209
00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,920
Speaker 1: kilometers into the hills before it dead ends. And as

210
00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,000
Speaker 1: you say, it doesn't doesn't quite dead end, but it

211
00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,319
Speaker 1: reaches a small parking area and past that point, motor

212
00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,120
Speaker 1: vehicles are not allowed, so you would hike, get out

213
00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:25,880
Speaker 1: and take a little walk a little bit. I and

214
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,640
Speaker 1: I originally I thought what was is it reached actually

215
00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:30,840
Speaker 1: kind of a turnaround, an actual dead end, and then

216
00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,080
Speaker 1: from there they were like trails that you can hike on.

217
00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:35,000
Speaker 1: But I don't know if you guys looked at it

218
00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,839
Speaker 1: on street view saying the coordinates and and actually the

219
00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,360
Speaker 1: road continues, it does. He's just not supposed to drive

220
00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,360
Speaker 1: down it anymore, I believe. Didn't they don't they like

221
00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,440
Speaker 1: kept logs in front of it or something like that

222
00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:49,480
Speaker 1: to keep drivers from going through. Uh not, No, not

223
00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:51,200
Speaker 1: in the street view that I saw. Maybe they have

224
00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,360
Speaker 1: sense sens Okay. I remember reading something about the fact

225
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,360
Speaker 1: that they were quote unquote trees in the way and

226
00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:59,240
Speaker 1: they were like, yeah, we're not gonna do anything about

227
00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,559
Speaker 1: that because we don't want you to drive there. Oh yeah, no,

228
00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:03,960
Speaker 1: that was there was a big article written, I think

229
00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,160
Speaker 1: it was in g Q one the guy wanted to

230
00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,160
Speaker 1: drive up there. Yeah, and that's where that's why I

231
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,480
Speaker 1: got the impression that those trees were down at after

232
00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,720
Speaker 1: that turnaround. No, actually they were well before that. There

233
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:16,720
Speaker 1: was there was there were some trees down. And then

234
00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:18,760
Speaker 1: then the guy goes back to town and some talks

235
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:20,440
Speaker 1: to some girl in the cafe and she says, yeah,

236
00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,319
Speaker 1: nobody really goes up there, so you know, so we're

237
00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,440
Speaker 1: not that motivated. But anyway, they're up that road along

238
00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,320
Speaker 1: about three fift British tourist on a bicycle was heading

239
00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,720
Speaker 1: up that same road, heading south out of Chevlin. His

240
00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,960
Speaker 1: name was Brett Martin, former former pilot with the Royal

241
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:40,800
Speaker 1: Air Force. Uh and yeah, yeah British. Yeah. He had

242
00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,080
Speaker 1: a like a summer vacation home nearby and he was

243
00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:48,160
Speaker 1: past also going south by a French cyclist named Silvan Molier,

244
00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,080
Speaker 1: who will you recognize? I mentioned it before and he

245
00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,240
Speaker 1: was on his very expensive racing bike as I mentioned.

246
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,280
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, when you said it earlier, I thought you

247
00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,800
Speaker 1: said five thousand year old and I was like, that

248
00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,920
Speaker 1: sounds wrong, but maybe I'm just going to roll with it.

249
00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:09,720
Speaker 1: Like euro was it cost five thousand euros? Very expensive?

250
00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,920
Speaker 1: God would that would be totally cool, out of place,

251
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:19,720
Speaker 1: artific mystery for us. I was just gonnaycle. It's probably

252
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,959
Speaker 1: my fault. It's probably my core annuciation. But yeah, his

253
00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,760
Speaker 1: bike costs. His bicycle costs five thousand euros according to

254
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:28,880
Speaker 1: one story that I read, which is kind of a

255
00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:30,960
Speaker 1: shame for for a mala, because if he had a

256
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,520
Speaker 1: heavier bike like my Trek seventy three hundred, which is

257
00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,040
Speaker 1: a hybrid, he probably would have gotten up to the

258
00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:37,520
Speaker 1: end of the road later and that might have worked

259
00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:41,200
Speaker 1: out a little differently for him. That's called foreshadow. Yeah,

260
00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,160
Speaker 1: so we need one of these, don't don't done? Yeah,

261
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,560
Speaker 1: I was just wondering why he was doing brand placements

262
00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,240
Speaker 1: so much. He apparently has a sponsorship. He's not telling you.

263
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,640
Speaker 1: Apparently make a little money on the side. Yeah, it's

264
00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:54,320
Speaker 1: just how he's paying off the bike. You know that

265
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,360
Speaker 1: the Europeans are actually paying me to promote the euro

266
00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,200
Speaker 1: which is not doing so well these days. Okay, but

267
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,600
Speaker 1: back to our story. The al Hilly family came along

268
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,679
Speaker 1: in their BMW station wagon. Shortly after that, they passed

269
00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,000
Speaker 1: Brett and Martin going up the hill. It's not actually

270
00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,280
Speaker 1: totally clear who got to the end of the road first,

271
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,680
Speaker 1: if it was Malier or the al Hillies, but pretty

272
00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,480
Speaker 1: close to the same time. And this was around three

273
00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:18,839
Speaker 1: thirty pm. Uh And, as I said before, there's what

274
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,520
Speaker 1: they call it lay by, also a white spot essentially,

275
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:24,640
Speaker 1: and yeah, that's what it is. It's just a wide

276
00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:26,720
Speaker 1: gravel spot where you can pull off and park your car.

277
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,080
Speaker 1: Uh So I'd pulled his car into that white spot,

278
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,320
Speaker 1: nose into the bank ninety degrees to the road, which

279
00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,920
Speaker 1: violates my number one rule about parking and hicky spots,

280
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:37,960
Speaker 1: which as you turned the car around right so you

281
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:39,960
Speaker 1: can make a quick getaway. He didn't do that. But

282
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,120
Speaker 1: actually it's on StreetView it looks like a really pleasant

283
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:43,680
Speaker 1: little spot. So you know, it's not the kind of

284
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,440
Speaker 1: spot you'd really worry about getting fire terror arrival. Now,

285
00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:49,960
Speaker 1: it's not that it doesn't look like that kind of place, really,

286
00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,400
Speaker 1: So he parks side and Zena Zenab his seven year

287
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,120
Speaker 1: old daughter, get out of the car, and the sequence

288
00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,920
Speaker 1: of events is a little uncertain. After this, it appears

289
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,840
Speaker 1: that they were close to Mala, so you know, it

290
00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:04,840
Speaker 1: might be that they were just saying hi, nice day

291
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,000
Speaker 1: something like that to him. Uh and uh. And then

292
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:12,240
Speaker 1: apparently a crazy gunman with the Lugar Lugar pistol pops

293
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,600
Speaker 1: into the scene and opens fire. It looks like zanneb

294
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:20,400
Speaker 1: and Molier were shot first, Yeah, and cyclists and the

295
00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,720
Speaker 1: cyclist and the French cyclist and and then the crime

296
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,320
Speaker 1: scene was reconstructed using all kinds of things like shell

297
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,200
Speaker 1: case things and the blood on people's soles of their

298
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,080
Speaker 1: feet and various things. So they sort of established because

299
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,560
Speaker 1: it turns it turns into kind of a messy scene. Yeah,

300
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,520
Speaker 1: there were quite a few shots fired, a lot of Yeah,

301
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,160
Speaker 1: but even the police are not acent certain that they

302
00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:43,560
Speaker 1: have the actual sequence down. But are the best guests

303
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,600
Speaker 1: the best guess. The cyclist and the daughter gets shot, yeah, Maia,

304
00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:48,960
Speaker 1: once dad went down. I'm not sure about Zanne. She

305
00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,440
Speaker 1: got shot in the shoulder. Uh. And then so I

306
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,640
Speaker 1: grabbed her, dragged her towards the car. And this is

307
00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:55,920
Speaker 1: again I've read three different versions of this. One was

308
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,480
Speaker 1: he just left her and ran for the car. Another

309
00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:00,360
Speaker 1: one is he grabbed her and drags her back to

310
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:02,160
Speaker 1: the car and then and I think you found one

311
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,560
Speaker 1: scene that said he actually actually got her into the car. Yeah. Yeah,

312
00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,200
Speaker 1: as he got as side got into the driver's seat,

313
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,880
Speaker 1: he was shot in the lower back and he starts

314
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,440
Speaker 1: the car, slams it reverse, cracks the wheel the left

315
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:14,880
Speaker 1: and floors it. And you can see in the air

316
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,760
Speaker 1: there's some helicopter shots of the spot. You can see

317
00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,200
Speaker 1: that the car did a nice tight little semi circle

318
00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,560
Speaker 1: one eight until it slams into the bank. The rear

319
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,440
Speaker 1: end of the slams into the bank, and that's where

320
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,920
Speaker 1: it stayed. And I'm not sure if it got stuck.

321
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,000
Speaker 1: According to one account that I read, when Brett Martin

322
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:34,960
Speaker 1: got to the scene, he said it was still in

323
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,960
Speaker 1: reverse and the wheels were still turning it. Well, I

324
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,360
Speaker 1: sent you that image. Yeah, I found it. I saw

325
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,600
Speaker 1: the image to where it is definitely dug in. It

326
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,560
Speaker 1: is totally dug in, and you can tell that there's

327
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:47,560
Speaker 1: all the dirt has been flung away from the tire.

328
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:49,920
Speaker 1: It looks as if it's just it would have been

329
00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,240
Speaker 1: free spinning at that point. Yeah. I mean he might

330
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,920
Speaker 1: have just sat there because he might have been passed

331
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,520
Speaker 1: out from shock or blood loss or just being It

332
00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,800
Speaker 1: really doesn't matter if if you slam the ass end

333
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,040
Speaker 1: of your vehicle into an embankment enough to pick the

334
00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,560
Speaker 1: tires up a little bit, and the groundunderneath is soft

335
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:09,960
Speaker 1: and you were pounding on the accelerator, you're gonna quickly

336
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,000
Speaker 1: dig a hole. And you could be completely conscious, and

337
00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,639
Speaker 1: you're still going to be unable to move because you

338
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:17,919
Speaker 1: got no traction because it's two wheel dry. Yeah, but

339
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,320
Speaker 1: if the wheels were still spinning one um, yes his

340
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,239
Speaker 1: name had shown up, that would be you know, if

341
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,600
Speaker 1: somebody passed out, if it's in gear at that point,

342
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,480
Speaker 1: they're still going to be spinning. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, that's

343
00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:32,440
Speaker 1: that's what I heard. But then again I've heard I've

344
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:36,080
Speaker 1: also heard that it was in neutral and he that

345
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:40,360
Speaker 1: semicircle made the car also run over. Yeah, he ran over,

346
00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,560
Speaker 1: it ran over the French cycle was ye. Poor guy.

347
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,440
Speaker 1: He was having a rough day. Like I said, dude,

348
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:51,439
Speaker 1: next time trek. Alright, So our gunman steps to the

349
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,520
Speaker 1: front of the car and he shot side again. Side

350
00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,359
Speaker 1: was shot four times, twice to the head, and then

351
00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,080
Speaker 1: the ball in Sula the mother in law were also

352
00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,480
Speaker 1: shot several times. Then it appears that our perpetrator walked

353
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,720
Speaker 1: over to Molier and shot him again. So in all,

354
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:10,800
Speaker 1: SidD I Ball, Shila and Molier were shot four, four,

355
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,520
Speaker 1: three and five times respectively. You in the head each person,

356
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:20,240
Speaker 1: each one got two in the head, yeah, which is yeah,

357
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,560
Speaker 1: well it's it's a that's prompted some sterizing about it

358
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,040
Speaker 1: being a professional yet. Yeah. And Zanna of course was

359
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,120
Speaker 1: shot once in the shoulder. She wasn't quite dead, so

360
00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,840
Speaker 1: there was something some trauma to her head, wasn't there. Yea.

361
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:33,840
Speaker 1: He smashed her over the head at least once with

362
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,240
Speaker 1: the butt of his gun pretty hard apparently, and we

363
00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:41,200
Speaker 1: broke the he broke the grip of the grip of yeah. Yeah, yeah,

364
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:45,560
Speaker 1: so that requires a pretty severe blow. Well, yeah, that's

365
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,719
Speaker 1: intriguing because if you look at a luger, and this

366
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,560
Speaker 1: was a luger, they you know, they've established that apparently

367
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:53,520
Speaker 1: on the piece of the grip that was broke off,

368
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:56,800
Speaker 1: look at the luger. It's actually the grip is kind

369
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,680
Speaker 1: of up a little bit from the botto, from the butt,

370
00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,080
Speaker 1: the butt of it, so not actually when hitting somebody,

371
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,399
Speaker 1: not even hitting the grip on anything anyway, Well, he

372
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,520
Speaker 1: could have it could have already been sort of aged

373
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:11,119
Speaker 1: and cracked and could pistol whip there. Yeah, just yeah,

374
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,560
Speaker 1: which is really traumatizing and horrible, but well it's not. Yeah,

375
00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:16,920
Speaker 1: she had a traumatizing enough time without getting bashed in

376
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,719
Speaker 1: the head. Yeah, well with yeah, without any of that.

377
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:24,080
Speaker 1: But wasn't there also another child? There was another child? Yeah,

378
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:26,879
Speaker 1: But anyway, the last thing about the grip sell off.

379
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,320
Speaker 1: Of course the police did pick those up later, and

380
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,399
Speaker 1: that's not allowed them to identify the gun as a

381
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:36,199
Speaker 1: Swiss made P zero six thirty two caliber luger. As

382
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:38,560
Speaker 1: I'm sure you're all familiar with what a luger is.

383
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,440
Speaker 1: They're color classic. Yeah, you see him in all the

384
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,439
Speaker 1: World War two movies. Yeah, he's the classic handgun of

385
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,160
Speaker 1: the German army. Yeah. And they're they're actually really cool.

386
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,680
Speaker 1: They're they're weird, but the cool. They're as iconic as

387
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,399
Speaker 1: the PP seven, the p P seven isn't that what

388
00:19:55,520 --> 00:20:01,600
Speaker 1: James Bond uses? How much I know about the guns?

389
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,280
Speaker 1: Gun Nut for Oh no, she just made that up.

390
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,439
Speaker 1: I was closed. Come on, we happen to know there

391
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:14,639
Speaker 1: actually is a piece seven pistol, that's what. It doesn't matter. Yeah, no,

392
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:16,040
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. But you were asking if there was

393
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 1: another kid. Yeah, at first we forgot about zena aged four,

394
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,120
Speaker 1: who was in the back seat with her mother. And uh,

395
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:24,600
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if her mom shoved her

396
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,520
Speaker 1: behind her legs or she just took it, took the

397
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,119
Speaker 1: initiative and did it herself. But she hid behind her

398
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,560
Speaker 1: mother's legs. Her mom was wearing a long skirt, so

399
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:33,960
Speaker 1: she hid there behind her mother and was not seen

400
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,840
Speaker 1: by the gunman. And she stayed there for a long time.

401
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,240
Speaker 1: The police I showed up and they were actually going

402
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,199
Speaker 1: over the scene and and cataloging it and marking it

403
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,320
Speaker 1: all out and everything, And it was like eight hours

404
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,200
Speaker 1: before they finally got around to opening up the car

405
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,080
Speaker 1: to to look at the dead bodies inside. It was

406
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,439
Speaker 1: I had read that it wasn't until some forensic person

407
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:59,120
Speaker 1: was going to examine the body that suddenly they realized

408
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 1: something else was going So I have I have questions

409
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,360
Speaker 1: about that eight hour number. And this is a tangent

410
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,240
Speaker 1: and I'll make it quick. But the way it was written,

411
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,440
Speaker 1: I initially presumed, I think, like all of us did,

412
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,240
Speaker 1: that it was eight hours from the time the cops

413
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 1: are rived. But I think it's from eight hours from

414
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 1: the time that incident happened. I think it's about half

415
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,919
Speaker 1: an hour after the cops arrived. Okay, not not just kidding.

416
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 1: The cops got there very fast, but you know, it's

417
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,640
Speaker 1: still probably at the scene within an hour or two

418
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 1: of it. A guy at a bicycle has to pedal

419
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,439
Speaker 1: back to town to report it. Oh yeah, probably it

420
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,639
Speaker 1: was downhill, so it should have been fairly quick. That

421
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 1: was a pretty crappy road haul on your bicycle. But

422
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,199
Speaker 1: the point is it would have taken a while for

423
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,119
Speaker 1: the cops to get there, so in their defense a

424
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 1: little bit, it wasn't as if they were instantly appearing.

425
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 1: And and again also in their defense, you would assume

426
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 1: that if anybody were alive, and when they hurt sirens,

427
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 1: they would declare themselves. Yeah, I mean no, they probably

428
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,160
Speaker 1: probably don't take into account that there's a four year old. Yeah,

429
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 1: but they probably they want to don't want to trample

430
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 1: all over the scene, so they send one guy over

431
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 1: to look in the windows and make sure everybody's dead,

432
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 1: and you know, he goes and looks, Yeah, they all

433
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 1: look dead to me, and then he backs out and

434
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 1: they processed the whole crime scene. That probably discouraged her

435
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 1: from revealing herself. She spoke English, she lived in Britain,

436
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 1: and they were all talking in French, so she had

437
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: no way to know that they were police officers talking

438
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,120
Speaker 1: about the scene. All she knows is probably some guy

439
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 1: in yelling French came out of the woods. I know

440
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 1: there's more French people, are more French voices. I'm not moving. Yes,

441
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:50,200
Speaker 1: he probably still hates French people. Yeah the French food

442
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 1: that you're right, But I just thinking now, And obviously

443
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,679
Speaker 1: I'm very sympathetic to this poor little girl like hiding

444
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 1: and terror for all those hours. But also it's it's

445
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 1: kind of amazing to think of this lab tech or

446
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 1: whoever it was it opens a card or thinking that

447
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 1: he or she is going to be looking at a

448
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 1: dead body and all of a sudden it moves. That

449
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 1: must have given him a start. Huh. Yeah. But but anyway,

450
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 1: enough of that, So okay, so so guns go blazing?

451
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 1: How many? How many rounds? Because that's why. But yeah,

452
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 1: I think, as far as I could tell, the best

453
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 1: guests here is twenty one rounds. I've read in other

454
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 1: places twenty five rounds. But I think it was a lot.

455
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,639
Speaker 1: That's a lot. Uh. Yeah, because the luger has an

456
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 1: eight round magazine. Uh. And so the killer must have

457
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: had two extra magazines because twenty one rounds, right, And

458
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 1: maybe he had say seven rounds in each bagh, or

459
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 1: it might be out of eight rounds in each bag

460
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: and he just didn't shoot him all. He didn't shoot

461
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 1: I didn't shoot Zana for some reason. We don't know

462
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 1: the reason why. Or maybe he was just out of

463
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 1: AMMO and he smashed her over the head and left.

464
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:59,360
Speaker 1: I mean, it's maybe all of his mags weren't full. Yeah,

465
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 1: maybe he puts seven rounds in each bag, or maybe

466
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 1: he put eight eight rounds and had shot a couple

467
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 1: of bullets already doing something else nefarious. Yeah, I had.

468
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 1: I'd kind of come to the same conclusion, is what

469
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: Joe was just saying. Is it putting seven in the eight?

470
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 1: Because if you've ever tried to load up, it's really stiff,

471
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 1: like that last one. Yeah, and sometimes it's just not

472
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: worth it. Yeah, it's like, screw it, it's seven of eight.

473
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: It's it's enough. I know how many I have, which

474
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: would make sense with the one rounds having been expelled. Yeah,

475
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 1: and then for what he's planning on doing, I assume

476
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: he went out of the house that day intending to

477
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 1: murder somebody with his luger. You know, it's like packing

478
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,879
Speaker 1: a lot of reason. A luger is not alger and

479
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 1: two extra mags. It's not something you carry around every

480
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: day all day for self defense because it's a fairly big,

481
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:52,199
Speaker 1: all steel heavy gun. You know, it is hunting gun, No,

482
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: but it's it's just not it's a really distressing form

483
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: of hunting. Yeah, yeah, that kind of hunt thing. But

484
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: it's not real concealable either. It's just not your everyday

485
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 1: carry kind of gun. Really. So I don't know, but

486
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,919
Speaker 1: I think it was twenty one rounds and of that,

487
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 1: seventeen rounds actually hit their target, which is pretty good,

488
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, considering the stressful kind of situation.

489
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm assuming this guy was not cold as eyes.

490
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 1: He probably missed. You know, probably a lot of people

491
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: when they get into shootouts, they get even an even police,

492
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: they stressed so much they missed entirely. There have been

493
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: the polices have I've heard stories of police having shootouts

494
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: with perps at close range. He's has a gun and

495
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 1: everybody misses everybody. I mean they empty their guns and

496
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:38,719
Speaker 1: nobody's hit anybody. It's uh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, police

497
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: squad or yeah, naked gun, naked gun. Yeah, police squad.

498
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 1: I love that. What a great name. But anyway, so

499
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: this guy that's not bad. Seventeen one rounds uh and

500
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: again two headshots per person except for xandive and but

501
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: but it's still but still I'm not really sure why

502
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: he didn't shoot her unless he was out of AMMO

503
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 1: because she was a witness. And way very shortly after this,

504
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 1: around three p m. Brett Martin, remember him, the guy

505
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 1: on the bike, Brett, the heavy Yeah, the heavier bike.

506
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: He rise on his bicycle. Uh, and he must have

507
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: just missed all the action. He was a t probably yeah,

508
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 1: on a truck something, I'm sure, but yeah, Lucky for

509
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: him he got there a little later and everybody else

510
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: apparently the purp was probably out of AMMO anyway, but

511
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 1: only one person was seen by him exiting the scene,

512
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: which is a guy on a motorcycle who passed him

513
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 1: going downhill on the same road when he was on

514
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: his way up. So that guy, of course was you know,

515
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: kind of kind of suspected to be perhaps the purp

516
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: uh he apparently been seeing on the road south of

517
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: the murder scene that would be on the other side

518
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: of the murder scene by some four service workers and

519
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 1: who told him I had to leave? Was that guy

520
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 1: the gunman? Well, um, they the police released a composite

521
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 1: sketch of him. He he had a goatee which is

522
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 1: kind of sinister, kind of heavy eyebrows, very sinister. But

523
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 1: in March he was identified. I turned out he was

524
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: a businessman from Leone who had been in the area

525
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 1: to paragline and so they haven't released his name. Apparently

526
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: had no connection to Mulgay or to the al Hilly family,

527
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: has no criminal record, and was a respectable businessman, and

528
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: so the police took no further action on him. Although

529
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: he knows maybe he was our a killer, probably not,

530
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: probably not. He just happened to be in the area,

531
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: but nobody else was seen leaving. So this is what's interesting.

532
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: And you guys looked at again on the street view

533
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: on the street view, Uh if he'd been in a

534
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: car parked right there. I mean, obviously Bret Martin would

535
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: have seen him leaving the parking area and driving the

536
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,479
Speaker 1: other direction right um, and so I'm thinking, well, if

537
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: he parked that road right there, actually it goes past

538
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 1: the sign us is no admittance, and then it takes

539
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: a sharp harapine turn to the left and goes back

540
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: up past itself a little further uphill. So he could

541
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: have shot everybody and then and then exited through the

542
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: woods at the back of that turnaround there and gone

543
00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: about a hundred feet up to the road, same road

544
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 1: where he parked his motorcycle, bicycle, car or whatever and

545
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 1: escaped that way. Speculation on my part, I don't know.

546
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: But anyway, Red Martin shows up, and interestingly, this is

547
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: one of the things that police had trouble believing about him,

548
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: is that is that he was just a few hundred

549
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: meters down the road peddling out his bike and he

550
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 1: somehow didn't hear twenty one shots being fired. Yeah, yeah,

551
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: that was a little They were a little iffy on

552
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 1: that whole thing. And then apparently they did some some

553
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 1: sonic testing and it turns out the river is apparently

554
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: very noisy. Yeah, they're a little valley there, tight little

555
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: valley with this river making a lot of noise, and

556
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: apparently the mountains bounce reflects sound back and forth and stuff.

557
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: So they did some sound testing and it turns out, well,

558
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: he married he very well. Maybe he didn't hear the

559
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: gun shots, yeah, yeah, yeah. Was he kind of near

560
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,719
Speaker 1: some he was on a bridge or something like that.

561
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: Maybe even Yeah, it says the road, the road is

562
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: constantly crossing over the river, back and forth, and all

563
00:28:55,760 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: things considered, this this caliber of lugar isn't an exceptionally

564
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: loud round, is compared to you know, like a forty

565
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: five or something, which is super loud, that's true. Yeah,

566
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: it's not a forty four Mega or anything like that.

567
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: It's a Yeah, thirty two is considered. It's very popular

568
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: around in Europe here and Americans considered kind of anemic,

569
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: a lightweight round, which is why it makes sense that

570
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: you wouldn't hear it with a munch background noise. Yeah, yeah,

571
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: uh yeah. So anyway, Brett gets there, um and he

572
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: uh he surveys the scene. Uh and and and of

573
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: course Zanab apparently was out of the car staggering around

574
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: holding her head. Everybody else, of course, was in the

575
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: car dead, uh, And so he helped her out, and

576
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: then I think found some local hikers or something or

577
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 1: somebody on a bike or something and asked them to

578
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: go for help, and they did. Next thing, you know,

579
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: the cops I'll show up. Oh and here, by the way,

580
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: if you want to see this crime scene, here are

581
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: the coordinates. Are you ready? Write this down? Dot seven

582
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: to eight eight three one and six point to two

583
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: four six four nine, and you can see the very

584
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: spot where it happened. So much easier than the U

585
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: r L. Yeah, way easier. Yeah, but it is actually

586
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 1: kind of informed to take a look at the spot. Yeah.

587
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: So after matth there were two survivors. Of course, the

588
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: two daughters, Santa Been Sena did survive. Zane did recover.

589
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: Apparently she's has some memory issues, not not total of

590
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: memory lost from that time. We're not completely understandable and

591
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: a bit of a blessing. Yeah, probably not surprising at all,

592
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: but apparently from the trauma and from the physical trauma.

593
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: Apparently the girls have been adopted by an anton and

594
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: uncle and they're doing all right, which is good. Apparently

595
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: I think they've been given new identities. Probably good too. Yeah,

596
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: and there was one other weird side note, which is

597
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 1: that I said iball Asad's wife had been buried before

598
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: right to James Thompson back in the US. On the

599
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: day that she died, Jim Thompson died of a heart

600
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 1: attack in his car. That's so weird, same day, I know,

601
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: it isn't that weird? Um? Yeah? Yeah. The French police,

602
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: actually I heard, tried to get his body exxumed because

603
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: they wanted to test to see if he'd been poisoned

604
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: or something. Apparently the family would not agree to it,

605
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 1: and so it hasn't happened yet. You know, it's it's

606
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: kind of, I guess, something worth checking out. I suppose

607
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: it's kind of a wild long ship. It's a huge

608
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: log shot, but it's also a huge coincidence. Oh yeah,

609
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 1: it's massive. Yeah, I mean yeah, But then again, when

610
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: you look at this whole thing, maybe they both signed

611
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: a contract with the Devil at the same time and

612
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: the rest of them paid the price for it. That

613
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,959
Speaker 1: could be. That makes sense. Been watching Supernatural again, so

614
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: I would explain that. Okay, yeah, I sort of let

615
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: let that show drop. Maybe I should get back to that. Yeah,

616
00:31:50,200 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: I've been watching Narcos on Netflix. It's actually pretty good. Yeah.

617
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: Get where am I here? Back to back to the Yeah, yeah,

618
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: back to the axe. On the other hand, he was overweight,

619
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: he had high blood pressure, he smoked cigars, so I'm

620
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: probably not that remote yeah yeah, but still on the

621
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: same day, that's a little weird. Yeah, I don't know.

622
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: So there are a lot of theories. Obviously, the European

623
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: press want nuts over this, and the internet has gone

624
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: nuts over too, and the police they put out a

625
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: few interesting theories. Some of the theories assassination by the CIA,

626
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: the Massad, sodom, who's saining loyalists and maybe the KGB

627
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: or FSB, whatever they're calling themselves these days, perhaps a

628
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: jealous lover, perhaps murder over an a state dispute um.

629
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: But police have admitted they actually don't have any idea. Really, yeah,

630
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: they really don't. They don't know who the target of

631
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: the killing was and who was collateral damage, and for

632
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: all they know it it really was just a random

633
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: thrill kill. They just aren't. They just really don't know.

634
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: So humber Damn, who murdered who murdered the al Hils,

635
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: who murdered Sylvan Moulier and why did they do it? Well,

636
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: let's talk about there is the first let's take a break,

637
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: so we'll lamit. Radio Workshop. The award winning Will Lament

638
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: Radio Workshop returns for the nineteenth annual UFO Festival in McMinnville, Oregon.

639
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: Two live radio shows at the Hotel Oregon in Maddie's

640
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: Room at three p m. Saturday, the nineteenth Isaac Asimov's

641
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: Pebble in the Sky and Craig Kenworthy's parf The Extra

642
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: Dimensional Assassin. Tales of future worlds with a modern edge.

643
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll wonder when the mothership arrives.

644
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 1: Free admission with food and beverages available, own ages, live

645
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: radio loos I mcminimans nineteenth annually USO Festival. Don't miss it,

646
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: and we're back. Okay, first theory, alright, So our first theory.

647
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: It was a hit on side al Hilly by Saddam

648
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: Hussein loyalists. Um, and here's here's the basic outline of

649
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 1: this theory. Uh, they did have the air marks of

650
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: a professional head. Of course, as I said, the two

651
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: headshots per victim, right, it's guaranteeing that they don't survive

652
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: reasonably good marksmanship, although it was a bit sloppy, I

653
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: gotta say, leaving the daughter alive. One theory that the

654
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: papers came up with is that Sid's father, cadem Al Hilly,

655
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,919
Speaker 1: was smuggling large quantities of cash out of Iraq. I'm

656
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 1: not sure that if this was post Saddam or you know,

657
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,879
Speaker 1: because as you know, he was captured and executed. Yeah,

658
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,479
Speaker 1: I believe it had to been pre yeah, pre uh

659
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: pre Dom's death. Yeah yeah. And so the idea here

660
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: is that he's smuggling all this cash and wealth out

661
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: of Iraqs stashing and Swiss banks. Uh. And then apparently

662
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 1: that this paper that posted this story, why did I say, post,

663
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: I'm so internet he here problished this story. Uh got

664
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: that they claimed to have gotten this information from German intelligence.

665
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: I'm a little skeptical there. But anyway, the Hills were

666
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: actually just a hop skip jump away from Geneva, Switzerland,

667
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: as I just said, where all that Iraqi money was stashed.

668
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: And it turns out Swiss authorities had confirmed that he

669
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 1: did indeed make a stop at a bank in Geneva

670
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: a few days before the killings. Yeah, it's almost like

671
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: he was on a large trip with his family and

672
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 1: needed some Yeah, and well, well there was there was

673
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: at least I don't know how many accounts he might

674
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: have had, but I know his father is deceased, father Kadeem,

675
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 1: who had died the year before, had left as part

676
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: of the state about eight hundred euros excee the eight

677
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: hundred thousand euros. I read eight hundred euros and I thought,

678
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's a very big amount of

679
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 1: money to fight over, but okay, no, no, eight hundred thousand,

680
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 1: maybe that's a little bit better. But yeah, that's definitely

681
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: But he left that in the Swiss bank account. The

682
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: amount of just stopped in to check on that. I

683
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 1: think he was in a little bit of his dispute

684
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: with his brother, so maybe he just wanted to make

685
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: sure it hadn't been hoovered out. Yeah. Yeah, I don't

686
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 1: know how Swiss banks work. I don't know if they're

687
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: like every other bank where they have a web page

688
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:30,839
Speaker 1: you can just log in and check your balance, or

689
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 1: do you have to go there in person like you're

690
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 1: Matt Damon, you know, and present them with a little

691
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:39,280
Speaker 1: secret decoder ring and yeah, and then the bank manager

692
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: has to come down and pull the key out of

693
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: a secret pocket and you have to like just stand

694
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: simultaneously do the lock. I think that's how it is.

695
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 1: Is that how it is? Okay, So that's and then

696
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: you know the whole Geneva Well know is that what

697
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: was that Dan Brown book? Oh yeah, yeah, I was

698
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: like that, sorry, the Da Vinci code where you know,

699
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: have to run it down a conveyor belt. Yeah, all

700
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:06,280
Speaker 1: of all of these tropes are correct. Bank account Hollywood always,

701
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: you know, fastidiously researched all their stuff. But so, but

702
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: but of course if I did make a little a

703
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: little stop over Geneva and grab a bunch of illicit

704
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: Iraqi cash, that's kind of short notice to get an

705
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: assassin in place to murder him, you know, on a

706
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: mountain road. Well, there's automated alerts, automated alerts on my accounts.

707
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: It could be they had sleeper agents in place all

708
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: over Europe. It could It could also be that they

709
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 1: suspected going to and then and so they had somebody

710
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: tailing him already. Yeah, or maybe he had actually been

711
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 1: doing it already. I have serious reservations about that. But

712
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: we'll get to this. Yeah, yeah, this is a bad theory.

713
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: It's it's not that yeah, yeah, so okay, And so

714
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: imagining as common sense kind of dictates that there had

715
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 1: to be a little preparation for this. You know, it

716
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: didn't just they didn't just decide in the basis of

717
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 1: twenty hours notice to get a hitman out there to

718
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 1: kill him. But if it was a long time coming

719
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,280
Speaker 1: then uh and and the police fresh police originally believed

720
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 1: that the origin of it was not in France. He

721
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:11,720
Speaker 1: didn't want to believe it was. It was a French

722
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: person who did this. You would think that they would

723
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: have assassinated him back in England. Would have been a

724
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 1: lot simpler rather than tracking him his family all over

725
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,240
Speaker 1: France and killing them all of them. Maybe just shoot

726
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 1: him when he's coming out of his office or something

727
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 1: like that. Yes, but I will say that uh family

728
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:38,479
Speaker 1: camping trip in this kind of not really very well

729
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: traveled area, it would maybe be better with the without

730
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 1: the bad luck of having the two bikers there, that

731
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,240
Speaker 1: it could feasibly be days before the bodies were found

732
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: if they if they were camping, indeed, they wouldn't be

733
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: expected to be checking in. Most of the family was there,

734
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: so you know, way, it kind of makes sense. It's

735
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 1: not it's not great, but they're being reported missing. Would

736
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: probably be greatly delayed by that, it would, and then

737
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,479
Speaker 1: finding the bodies, and then you know, probably the daughter

738
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 1: would have actually died because she would have stayed there indefinitely.

739
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 1: Probably know, the one that got the older ones, she

740
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,879
Speaker 1: probably would have Probably she would have staggered down the road.

741
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: She might have made her maybe not. It just quite

742
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 1: a bit. I agree, it's you know, but it is.

743
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: It does seem to make a little more sense if

744
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 1: you're worried about the discovery of them. Yeah, although yeah,

745
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 1: I don't know how ill traveled that roaded. I mean,

746
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:38,439
Speaker 1: if you go on street View, if you go from

747
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 1: Chevaline all the way up to the murder scene, you

748
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: pass a bicyclist on the road the Google car does.

749
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: And then when you get to the lay by, as

750
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: they call it another the podcast, they call it the

751
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: lay about. No no no, I wanted to just say, no, no, no,

752
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: I have a lay about layby. Okay, but so but

753
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: if you on again on the same street the same day,

754
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: there were two cars parked in that spot, so you know,

755
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: it's it seems to me like it's popular enough somebody

756
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: would notice his BMW with a bunch of bloody corpses

757
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,919
Speaker 1: in it. Probably, yeah, although still it is a little

758
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 1: bit out of the way. I mean, it's not heavily trafficed,

759
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 1: it's it's probably is a decent place. You can just

760
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: look up and down the road see if somebody coming. Okay,

761
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 1: good kill kill kill, you know. But but again, like

762
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: I said, besides that they did, they did check out

763
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: his house. They didn't find anything there, no evidence of

764
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: sketchy behavior, rocky cash connection, anything like that. What they

765
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: did find is that he had recently changed his locks,

766
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:42,839
Speaker 1: which the papers made something out of. I'm not sure

767
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: what you can make out of that really, but and

768
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 1: then they also found a taser, which is illegal in Britain.

769
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: I think you can make something out of change manually

770
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: changed locks. No, Okay, this might just be because of

771
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: the amount of reporting, but I thought that I read

772
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: that taser in the freshly changed locks were something the

773
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: police were all excited about when they got to the

774
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 1: brother and not so hot and well, you mean when

775
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: they got to the brothers and they found it at

776
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: the brother's place. Yeah, I thought about I thought they

777
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: found it out side they did. Well. No, See, that's

778
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 1: the thing is that I remember them talking about the

779
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 1: fact that in one of the articles he was saying

780
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 1: that when they went and checked out his brother, they

781
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:28,839
Speaker 1: found it weird that they had gone there, and then

782
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: he had again, I think this is just confusing report

783
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: a lot of this. I think like they searched Cadem's house.

784
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: That's the father. They searched his house looking for clues, right,

785
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: and that was the one where but they arrested his

786
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: brother and hauled him in a couple of different times.

787
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:49,320
Speaker 1: That's that's where the convers right. But the change locks

788
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: and the taser come up in that conversation as well,

789
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: which is why I was saying I was confusing. Now,

790
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:56,399
Speaker 1: But the search of Cadem's house was the one where

791
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 1: they thought they found something sketchy that they thought might

792
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: be a bomb, so they BacT way. Yeah, well I've

793
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 1: seen that reported as Cadem's house and also as Sod's house,

794
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: and also as Zaid's apartment. So I seen the reports

795
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: all three. It was Cadim's house that had the reporting on.

796
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: This is just her No, it isn't. It isn't great. Um,

797
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: it's confusing, and it makes our job harder to cut

798
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:27,320
Speaker 1: it out, guys, you know, really, come on. Yeah. But

799
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: the police, meanwhile, they were checking out this theory that

800
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,280
Speaker 1: it hit Matt had perhaps followed them over from Britain.

801
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: So they found they found basically every security camera between Calais,

802
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,439
Speaker 1: France and Lake Annison, which is probably quite a few.

803
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: We're talking, we're talking traffic cams and just you know

804
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 1: what rest areas and at gas stations or whatever. They

805
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,839
Speaker 1: apparently they tracked them all down once you all mean

806
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 1: thousands of thousands of photos and found the photos of

807
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: the al Hilly car with the trailer traveling across rants

808
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 1: and they checked neighboring photos to see if there were

809
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,439
Speaker 1: any cars that showed up more than once that we're

810
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 1: tailing them. So they went through a lot of photographs

811
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 1: here and by the way, there's been some complaced by

812
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 1: the family, the al Hilly family of the police have

813
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: really done nothing and all that stuff like they've done

814
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: a lot. They've done quite a bit, they actually really have.

815
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: And but so they want to do all these photos

816
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 1: and they finally decided no, they were not tailed from

817
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 1: England because they never found a single car twice following them.

818
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:28,879
Speaker 1: And also the other thing about it that doesn't really

819
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 1: make sense. It's apparently Zanna recovered enough of her memory

820
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 1: of that day the police asked her exactly, you know,

821
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 1: how they how they came to be up there, and

822
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: what she told them is that they were hanging out

823
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: at the campground. And so I said to her, well,

824
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: what do you want to do? Would you like to

825
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 1: go shopping or do you want to go out into

826
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 1: the woods? And Zana said, let's go to the woods.

827
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,839
Speaker 1: I'm not poor kid. Can you imagine that being one

828
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 1: of the only things you remember from a day like that? Yeah,

829
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 1: I know, poor kid, that's just sad. But and so that.

830
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 1: So this wasn't even a planned thing, which means it's

831
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: hard to premeditate putting a guy, putting a guy off

832
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: there laying like an assassin laying and wait for them.

833
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 1: So if so, if it's I, if an assassin was

834
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,320
Speaker 1: laying in wait for anybody, it would have been Molier

835
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 1: and not the al Hillies. So it looks like they

836
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:24,240
Speaker 1: were probably the collateral damage here. Malier was the target.

837
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 1: So let's talk about that theory. It was a planned

838
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 1: hit on Molier. Okay, wait, well, you need to finish

839
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: up those stuff about condem because we talked about a

840
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 1: little bit about the whole thing with him and the

841
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 1: Hussain regime. Oh oh, Conde, I guess, yeah, that might

842
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: be a little bit confusing there. I mean Kadeem L

843
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:47,280
Speaker 1: Hilly of course, and Zai's dad. He moved to England

844
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: with his family in y one. He moved back to

845
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 1: Iraq in seventy four, did not take his sons with

846
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 1: him apparently, and stayed there until two because he still

847
00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: had businesses over there, and so he basically was an entrepreneur. Yeah,

848
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 1: and so he basically went over there and I think

849
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 1: eventually ran his businesses and eventually wound them down or

850
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 1: sold them or whatever, and got out in two, which

851
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: was kind of after Saddam's accession to power, because I

852
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: think Saddam officially became you know, the big boss man

853
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 1: in like seventy nine I believe, I'm not totally sure

854
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 1: about that, right around seventy nine. Yeah, I mean, he

855
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 1: was kind of the power behind the throne for a

856
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,280
Speaker 1: long time there, but he didn't become the big cahuna

857
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 1: until about seventy nine and um. And so there's no

858
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: indication that they were buddies or that they had any

859
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: connection whatsoever, and the way things are, so this whole

860
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: stashing Iraqi hidden war cash thing is probably just just

861
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,799
Speaker 1: something to papers. Yeah, I think so. I don't know

862
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: if there was any real evidence for it, because there's

863
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: no evidence that Saddam and Kadim knew each other, you know.

864
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 1: And and for that matter, as I had said that

865
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:58,959
Speaker 1: Kaud he even actually did not like Saddam at all.

866
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 1: Come on, Joe us from Iraq, he was buddies with, Yes,

867
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: we're friends. Ye, so well, actually it was kind of

868
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 1: you know, if you if you sort of let things

869
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: take their course, eventually everybody would have been his buddy

870
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 1: because he killed everybody he wasn't. Yeah, yeah, that was yeah,

871
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 1: I'm joking, ye don't. We don't think that. Actually, I

872
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 1: really love the quotes from my friends who I can't

873
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: I can't directly quote because there's some foul language in here. Um.

874
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 1: But he was blanking crazy, is what they used to

875
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: always say when people ask them about what they thought

876
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 1: about the pseudonymous Yeah, nobody, nobody who left that area like, yeah, yeah,

877
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:50,919
Speaker 1: it was rather ruthless. But yeah, so next our next

878
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 1: it was a plan hit on mal Sylvan the bicyclist. Okay, well,

879
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 1: was at this time taking a three year leave of

880
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 1: absence for this job as a welder. Yeah, and I

881
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: don't know why he was doing that. How do you

882
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: get us for a year? That's crazy maternity to leave

883
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 1: right there? Well, I mean alternity leave first of all, right,

884
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 1: but but sometimes contracts aren't as plentiful, and maybe it's

885
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 1: possible that he said, hey, listen, I'm going to take

886
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 1: a three year sabbatical, you know, let me know when

887
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,760
Speaker 1: there's work again. Yeah, it's just it's a weird number

888
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,800
Speaker 1: to me. I'm sure that in in Europe it maybe

889
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 1: it's something that's more college. Yeah, they like they definitely

890
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: give people more. Like Intel here only gives you about

891
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: a one year sabbatical, and Intel is weird for giving

892
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:49,760
Speaker 1: people sabbatical. Yeah. Yeah, So it's just it's a strange

893
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: number to me, that's all I'm saying. And that's kind

894
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: of a strange number. I don't know that I want

895
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:54,879
Speaker 1: to take that much time off from my job because

896
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: I would probably forget how to do it too. Yeah. Yeah,

897
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 1: But but anyway, he was doing whatever he was doing that,

898
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:05,280
Speaker 1: particularly of course riding his bicycle, living with his girlfriend,

899
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: Claire shoots. Uh according to yeah, yeah, according to the papers,

900
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 1: Claire was from a very well off family. Apparently your

901
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 1: dad owned a big successful pharmacy. Apparently she was buying

902
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 1: it from him. And the papers took that to me

903
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: that she was like a millionaire, so he was a

904
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 1: gold digger. Yeah. Uh, And they said the papers also

905
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: said Claire's family didn't like Molier and felt that he

906
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: was sponging off of Claire, and then perhaps the family

907
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,399
Speaker 1: had had him killed, you know, And uh, all right,

908
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 1: but then there was another theory apparently that Mollier also

909
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,800
Speaker 1: like to fool around um, and that maybe there was

910
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: a jealous boyfriend out there didn't wanted to whack him. Yeah,

911
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 1: so that was another theory that was out there. But

912
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 1: of course, this this all runs, this all runs back

913
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 1: into the same problem we have with the al hill

914
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:57,839
Speaker 1: He's being the target of the target of the head

915
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 1: is that apparently nobody knew moll was actually going to

916
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: bicycle up that road. He wasn't he was, well, he

917
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: was don't on a bicycle that really was equipped for

918
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 1: that kind of terrain. If yeah, he was on a

919
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 1: racing bike. And and actually that's a paved road. But

920
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: it does have some It does have some cracks and

921
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: potholes in it. Uh, if you you know, you can

922
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 1: see it. You can actually if you if you weave

923
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 1: skillfully enough, you can for the most part, stay on

924
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 1: smooth pave. But if you weave in between all the

925
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 1: holes and stuff, it's gonna be a few patches where

926
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: you're gonna, you know, rough up your little bike a

927
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 1: little bit. And I don't know how. You know, those

928
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:34,359
Speaker 1: those racing bikes have got those incredibly super skinny little

929
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 1: tires on that looked like, you know, if you run

930
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 1: over a rock about bigger than your thomb, you're gonna

931
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 1: totally destroy it, that kind of thing. Yeah, but apparently,

932
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: you know, he was, he was cruising off that thing.

933
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 1: Maybe he was so well off that he didn't worry

934
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 1: about ruining his tires. I don't know, but he was.

935
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,800
Speaker 1: He was apparently, as far as we know, just randomly

936
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 1: cycling up the end of the countryside that day. Yeah,

937
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: we don't know that for a certainty. I mean, maybe

938
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 1: he was planning a secret rendebou up there, or maybe

939
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: he told someone well maybe the best I was able

940
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 1: to hear is that he told he was with Claire

941
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: and her father, I think, and said he wanted to

942
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 1: go out for a bike ride and was thinking about

943
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,439
Speaker 1: heading like south of the lake, and the Claire's father

944
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 1: said something, well, you can take that road south out

945
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:18,919
Speaker 1: of Chevalry, and that's kind of a cool drive, you see.

946
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 1: That sounds a little suspicious. Yeah, yeah, but that that

947
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 1: road also has a lot of forks on it, And

948
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: so he could have been they could have said take

949
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 1: this turn and he just didn't take that turn and

950
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 1: took the road straight the whole way. Yeah, it could

951
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:37,839
Speaker 1: have been that he was actually suggesting a different route

952
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,759
Speaker 1: than the one that that the Molier actually took, or

953
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 1: they are covering up for something and yeah, yeah, and

954
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 1: so yeah, so I could just picture it. Now he's

955
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 1: out the door and other guys immediately okay, get to

956
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 1: the spot now, ye coming Yeah. Now. The only the

957
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 1: only way I can see this working out as as

958
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: sort of a hit with molis target is is that

959
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 1: perhaps he was the one that between the two parties

960
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 1: between Sad and while Ya he is the one that

961
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: was from the area, could perhaps have planned some sort

962
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 1: of a meet up at that spot. We'll never know.

963
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 1: There's absolutely no evidence to support that, and there's no

964
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 1: evidence that he was involved in any sort of covert

965
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:17,439
Speaker 1: activity that would get this kind of thing that would

966
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 1: get you killed, right right, So we'll just have to

967
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 1: take that as you know, probably not, yeah, I mean,

968
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,399
Speaker 1: And then on top of that, on top of that,

969
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 1: there's this question of how ruthless and horrible and heartless

970
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 1: would have to be to not only want to kill

971
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 1: one man, but then also think, oh, you know what,

972
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 1: now I have to kill this entire family, including a

973
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 1: seven year old girl. Like it's like that's just another

974
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 1: step above. Yeah. Even in my most psycho moments, I

975
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 1: would probably back opposite, you know, I think I'll wait

976
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 1: until another day to kill you would think, yeah he

977
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 1: would hope, Yeah, you would hope, so yeah, or maybe

978
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 1: he was just that angry. Uh yeah, Okay, So much

979
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: for that theory. There's another theory, which is that his

980
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 1: brother Zaid had him killed over this state dispute, because,

981
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 1: as I said, Cad had died the father and left

982
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 1: eight hundred thousand euros and then Swiss Bank along with

983
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 1: two excepting one house in Britain south of London and

984
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 1: also in apartment in Spain. So I don't know how

985
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: much all of that was worth a property. It's fairly valuable.

986
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 1: I mean property itself tends to have a pretty decent

987
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 1: price tag associated with it. So yeah, yeah, so somewhat valuable.

988
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 1: It was rumored that the brothers were in a bitter

989
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 1: dispute over the estate. Uh brothers, Zaid says. No, there

990
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 1: was some disagreement, but it wasn't at the point where

991
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: the people were ready to kill anybody. And to me,

992
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:37,800
Speaker 1: I don't know, it doesn't seem like enough money to

993
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 1: go killing your brother over well your brother and his

994
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 1: entire family. Well there's that too. Yeah. The other again,

995
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:45,839
Speaker 1: well he might not have liked his in laws, so

996
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 1: he wasn't worried about the loss of them. Yeah, I

997
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe maybe the nieces were kind of annoying

998
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 1: to Yeah, that's but yeah, that's it's still it still

999
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: does kind of run up against the whole problem of

1000
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 1: how how do you position your assassin to be in

1001
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 1: that particular spot and you just can't get past that

1002
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 1: little barrier that but one of hankey thing they found

1003
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 1: it checked his phone records and they found it. He

1004
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 1: called it never calls to five phone numbers in Romania

1005
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:12,800
Speaker 1: and the week's leading up to the murder, which is

1006
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,319
Speaker 1: a lot and apparently the call the call stopped after

1007
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,840
Speaker 1: the murder. Can you refresh my memory? I don't remember

1008
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,479
Speaker 1: what he does for a living. I don't. Uh, he

1009
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 1: is an accountant at that was the place. I can't

1010
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 1: remember the name of it. But yeah, he's got a

1011
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:30,879
Speaker 1: but basically an accounting job. Yeah. So what I mean,

1012
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 1: is it possible he could have been calling some random

1013
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 1: overseas client. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. What was

1014
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 1: the date of the killing, Uh, September twelve, twelve. Yeah,

1015
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 1: that doesn't really correlate to any text times that I

1016
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 1: know of. Okay, I had no idea. But it could

1017
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 1: have been work related, I don't you know. I don't

1018
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 1: could have been could have been, um, some late night

1019
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 1: phone rendezvous. Yeah, it could have been he just was

1020
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 1: just calling one of those nine hundred numbers that happened

1021
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 1: to be in Romania. Could have been could have been that.

1022
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 1: I don't know. If my name is off, what would

1023
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 1: you like off? I'm a sexy woman. My name is Mario.

1024
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. So yeah, did he have a good explanation

1025
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 1: for what? I don't. I don't recall that he ever

1026
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 1: provided them with an explanation for that. Now it does

1027
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 1: seem I never found out what the explanation for what

1028
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: those calls. I'm starting to believe that actually it was happening.

1029
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:32,319
Speaker 1: Is they were being followed by a helicopter the entire time. Yeah,

1030
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 1: and then they just dropped somebody down. They pulled to

1031
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 1: the side. Somebody just repelled down a rope, a bunch

1032
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 1: of shots, pulled back up, went away. Some some kind

1033
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:45,879
Speaker 1: of stealth technology from Romania that we don't know about.

1034
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 1: Drone with a gun. It could have been how fire missile,

1035
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 1: probably not that, probably not that. That would be some

1036
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:58,919
Speaker 1: spectacular police profidence. It blows him all to smither rainge. Wow,

1037
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:05,400
Speaker 1: look at all these full it was a luger, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah,

1038
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 1: it's not. There's not a good explanation for somebody being

1039
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:15,440
Speaker 1: stationed there have been in that spot. So then so

1040
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 1: then then it would be a random killing, very likely

1041
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:22,840
Speaker 1: random killing. Yeah, which is also weird. Somebody, well, somebody

1042
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:25,320
Speaker 1: just wanted to kill somebody and hung out in that spot.

1043
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 1: That's so. That's and there are a couple of a

1044
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 1: couple of suspects that they stumbled across. So I gotta

1045
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 1: tell you they're not great. Yeah they're there, but if

1046
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 1: they were great, they'd be in custody and we were

1047
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 1: probably yeah, probably a random killing suspects. We've got Patrice

1048
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:44,719
Speaker 1: Menagaldo who he was fifty years old and fourteen when

1049
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 1: he was interviewed by the police. So he used to

1050
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: be a soldier in the French Foreign Legion, which I

1051
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 1: understand is a pretty rough outfit. Yeah, yeah, this is

1052
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:56,879
Speaker 1: what I hear about him. Anyway, Apparently they had asked

1053
00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 1: Claire Shuts that's Molier's girlfriend, uh to give them a

1054
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 1: list of everybody she had ever known. Apparently Patrice had

1055
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 1: had dated her sister or that was still maybe even

1056
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 1: dating her sister. I don't think I could do that

1057
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 1: everybody you've ever known. It would take me a long

1058
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:15,439
Speaker 1: time to pickure that horrible with names, and it's only

1059
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,759
Speaker 1: because of social media that I would be like, oh, yeah,

1060
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 1: that one guy that I knew for like three years,

1061
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 1: but I don't remember his name. I mustache you know,

1062
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 1: yeah that guy, Yeah, I really can't. But anyway that

1063
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:32,439
Speaker 1: it maybe took her weeks to get get the list

1064
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:34,799
Speaker 1: to him, but anyway, they looked him up. He was

1065
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 1: against she knew him, but he wasn't a suspect. No,

1066
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:41,360
Speaker 1: they interviewed him for they interviewed him and just you know,

1067
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:44,280
Speaker 1: just to see if he maybe knew something, even without

1068
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 1: realizing he knew something, you know, you know what I mean,

1069
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 1: And and and talk to him, and then and then

1070
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 1: about two months later he committed suicide. Yeah, he left

1071
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 1: a seven page suicide note which the police will not release.

1072
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 1: Local prosecutor did did quote one sentence, which is quote,

1073
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 1: I could not handle being a suspect and a murder unquote. Um, except,

1074
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 1: of course, as we said, he wasn't a suspect, And

1075
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:12,640
Speaker 1: of course the tabloids, you know, speculated that perhaps he

1076
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 1: was driven to death by his guilt or by by

1077
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: fear of getting caught. Yeah. I also always wondered if,

1078
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 1: because he was in the French Foreign Legion, if there

1079
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 1: had been stuff coming out about nefarious acts that were

1080
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 1: done while people were in the legion, And so you

1081
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. It's also it also could have

1082
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 1: been one sentence in a seven page, single space, uh

1083
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 1: you know, giant monologue that this guy has written, and

1084
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 1: they've just plucked this one thing the list of things

1085
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:48,200
Speaker 1: he cannot stand. Yeah, it could. Yeah, I mean the

1086
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 1: smell of feet and the food in this place, and

1087
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 1: being implicated in murdered or the French language. Imagine how

1088
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 1: I'm saying that would be in France. I have a

1089
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:01,640
Speaker 1: hard time believing that if there was any reason to

1090
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 1: believe that anything in this seven page suicide note would

1091
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 1: reasonably lead to him being an actual suspect, the police

1092
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: would have released it, or at least said, yes, we

1093
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 1: are looking into it, we think he actually was a suspect. Yeah,

1094
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 1: and if the only reference in this entire seven page note,

1095
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 1: it's just this one sentence, and I gotta say, it's

1096
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 1: not much to go on there. It's bad. Yeah, it

1097
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 1: kind of is, so this kind of yeah, I think

1098
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 1: I don't I don't take it too seriously. And the

1099
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 1: next guy, and this guy has also also found his

1100
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 1: way to the papers. He lived just in a little

1101
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 1: town just west of Chevaline, and the reason he came

1102
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 1: to police's attention is that they checked all the cell

1103
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: phone records. They wanted to see what cell phones paying

1104
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:44,360
Speaker 1: the local cell tower that day. It turns out there

1105
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: were about four thousand of them, so they checked them

1106
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 1: all again. The police weren't slackers on this one. They

1107
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:51,960
Speaker 1: did a lot of legwork. And one of the people

1108
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:54,960
Speaker 1: whose cell phone paying that tower was it was Eric

1109
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 1: the Neva. So deva su perfect Yeah devas close enough. Again,

1110
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 1: not exactly surprising that he was on his cell phone

1111
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 1: that day. Four thousand other people were. Uh they they

1112
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 1: they tracked on all the numbers. They came knocking on

1113
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 1: his door. Uh. He was forty eight years old at

1114
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 1: the time. He had out a job as a policeman,

1115
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 1: which apparently he got fired from recently because he had

1116
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 1: too much of a temper. Oh, yeah, that doesn't apparently. Yeah,

1117
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 1: he'd also recently applied for a permit to carry again,

1118
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:29,960
Speaker 1: although personally I don't find anything wrong with that, but whatever,

1119
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 1: But again nothing nothing really immoral or illegal. But it

1120
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 1: turned out, unfortunately for him, he had a collection of guns.

1121
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 1: And I don't know how the police if they searched

1122
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 1: his house, or if maybe he just answered his door

1123
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 1: and they looked over his shoulder and there's all these

1124
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 1: schmitcherub machine guns hanging on the I don't really know

1125
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 1: how they found it. But it turned out that he

1126
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 1: had a collection. Uh. There are a lot of them

1127
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:55,800
Speaker 1: were vintage like World War two era weapons, and apparently

1128
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 1: you know, at least in this part of France. Apparently

1129
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 1: there's a lot of old old World War Two Eric

1130
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:06,479
Speaker 1: guns in private collections, part of the resistance. So yeah, yeah,

1131
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:09,240
Speaker 1: there's a little bit of pride there. Yeah. And you know,

1132
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 1: if I had a choice, my my, my great uncle

1133
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 1: gives me an old luder and old Schmitzer. I'm not

1134
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 1: going to take to the police to be melted down.

1135
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hang on to it. But but you might,

1136
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 1: you might declare it. Well, that's it, and it was

1137
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 1: not illegal necessary, but he had to declare his collection.

1138
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 1: He hadn't done that, So you've gotten a little hot

1139
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:30,479
Speaker 1: water over that. But apparently charges were dropped and nothing

1140
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 1: really came of it, but not the least that got him,

1141
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 1: you know, put on the front page of a lot

1142
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:39,480
Speaker 1: of newspapers. Poor guy. Again, there's no real case against him. Um,

1143
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:43,480
Speaker 1: so that's it. Our next guy came out, came sort

1144
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 1: of came out more recently. Um, this is Michael or

1145
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:49,840
Speaker 1: excuse me, Michelle hacked a guy. Uh. I think it's

1146
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 1: Prince from Michael, right. Yeah. He actually he's actually Belgian. Uh,

1147
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 1: he's living in France these days, apparently because he was

1148
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 1: convicted in Belgium. In tooth was a native shooting his brother,

1149
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 1: his sister in law and his nephew. This was in

1150
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 1: two thousand five. Uh involved apparently shooting one bullet through

1151
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 1: a wall and I can apparently, like you know, kind

1152
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 1: of sort of came close to them and I don't

1153
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 1: know if this is an accident what happened. But he

1154
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 1: was tried on three counts of attempted murder. Yeah it's

1155
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 1: a magic bullets, I know, I know. But he he

1156
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 1: only got ten months for that crime, although that might

1157
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,280
Speaker 1: have been ten months plus time already served well when

1158
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:32,560
Speaker 1: you trial too. I'm not really sure. But apparently he

1159
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:35,040
Speaker 1: was a potential suspect and a double murder in nineteen

1160
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:39,440
Speaker 1: eighty six because a sellmate of his and said that

1161
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:43,200
Speaker 1: he had confessed to that crime. Yeah. I knows, such

1162
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 1: a problem with that. I have a problem with all

1163
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:47,880
Speaker 1: those jailbird confessions and stuff, I really do. But but

1164
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 1: here's what the murder was. The murder was in eighty six.

1165
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 1: It happened in Brittany, French ye nine six, two British

1166
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:58,520
Speaker 1: bicyclists on vacation were shot. UH. Their bodies were found

1167
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 1: buried in a shallow grave. In a corn field and

1168
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 1: as a man and a woman. And the investigating policeman

1169
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 1: who since became a private investigator's name is Pascal huch

1170
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 1: And said that the prate the two cases were uh

1171
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 1: he said, well, let me quote here, quote there are

1172
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 1: similarities between these killings. Weapons were used to close range,

1173
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 1: and both took place in isolated areas. Unquote. That's a

1174
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 1: pretty thin connection. Well that that would describe a lot

1175
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:29,440
Speaker 1: of murders. Yeah, yeah, I really would. And actually that

1176
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:31,520
Speaker 1: the m was not the same. I mean, the most

1177
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:33,440
Speaker 1: detailed kind of heard is that the victims have been

1178
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:35,240
Speaker 1: tied up, they were shot with a rifle buried in

1179
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 1: a shallow grave, which is a totally different m oh

1180
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:42,240
Speaker 1: than this one. Yeah yeah, And so I don't really

1181
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:46,280
Speaker 1: see the connection there myself. Um. And again, um, even

1182
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 1: if he didcommit those murders, you know, which I'm not

1183
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 1: so sure he did. So that's Michelle hacked. Um let's

1184
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 1: move on to our next one real quick, like, okay,

1185
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:56,919
Speaker 1: this is this is this one has just come out

1186
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 1: like just last year, less than a year ago, right,

1187
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 1: this guy was unknown to the authorities until oh, I

1188
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 1: don't know, September last year perhaps, Yeah, yeah, he nordal

1189
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:13,840
Speaker 1: Lellen day h thirty five X soldier who recently I

1190
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 1: think that was February, finally confessed to abducting and murdering

1191
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 1: an eight year old girl that was in Chanre, which

1192
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:24,720
Speaker 1: is just southwest of Fantasy. Uh. And that's how he

1193
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 1: that's what he sort of got on the radar for

1194
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 1: this particular crime. So he was attending a wedding. Apparently

1195
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 1: the little girls I think she was eight, was at

1196
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 1: the same wedding. He abducted her in the years wee

1197
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:38,920
Speaker 1: hours of the morning from the party and uh, and

1198
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:40,960
Speaker 1: then you know, drove away with her and then came

1199
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:43,080
Speaker 1: back to the party without her. And this this was

1200
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 1: all figured out eventually using you know, like close circuit

1201
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:49,160
Speaker 1: TV and security cameras, but of course the police didn't

1202
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:51,640
Speaker 1: put pieces together until like September. This was in late

1203
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:55,960
Speaker 1: oct like late August. And uh, it turns out that

1204
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:58,880
Speaker 1: he had also picked up a hitchhiking soldier twenty three

1205
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:01,360
Speaker 1: year old guy named or no excuse me, twenty four

1206
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:06,880
Speaker 1: years old Arthur Noyer, that was in April murdered him also.

1207
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 1: He confessed to that just like like days ago. In

1208
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 1: March twenty nine of finally finally fest up to that

1209
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:17,560
Speaker 1: one too, and that was also that also took place

1210
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:20,120
Speaker 1: his skill was found. Like, but I think about twenty

1211
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 1: miles from Lake Annessey between the two you can seems

1212
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:26,320
Speaker 1: like it's hunting grounds. Yeah, kind of seems like so

1213
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 1: naturally that that gets him on the police radar for

1214
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:31,960
Speaker 1: this guy perhaps being the killer in this case too.

1215
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:35,440
Speaker 1: It seems well, he's an excel well and he's an

1216
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 1: ex soldier, right, so when was he serving as a soldier?

1217
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:43,920
Speaker 1: Um writer that he was actually like a dog handler

1218
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:46,800
Speaker 1: or something like that, but he was serving, right, Hey

1219
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 1: did serve? Yeah, so there be records of his whereabouts. Yeah,

1220
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:53,760
Speaker 1: like four years ago, actually six years ago, five and

1221
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 1: a half years and a half years ago at thirty five.

1222
01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:58,320
Speaker 1: You would assume that, you know, at the end of

1223
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:00,960
Speaker 1: your twenties you'd still be serving. But I don't necessarily

1224
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 1: a lot of people do their service like eighteen to

1225
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 1: twenty two right in there. I don't know if that's typical.

1226
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 1: You know in America, you sign up for four years,

1227
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:12,080
Speaker 1: you go into eighteen or nineteen in your early twenties. Yeah,

1228
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:17,040
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I don't know, And again the seems different. Yeah,

1229
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:19,280
Speaker 1: and then and part of it, you know, to the press.

1230
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:21,440
Speaker 1: I mean they think, like, oh, he was in the military,

1231
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:24,200
Speaker 1: he's going to be a good shot. The killer was

1232
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 1: a good shot, so were a lot of other A

1233
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:29,000
Speaker 1: lot of people in the military really can't shoot, were

1234
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:33,480
Speaker 1: the damn and a lot of us Yeah, a lot

1235
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:34,880
Speaker 1: of Yeah, and a lot of a lot of people

1236
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:36,840
Speaker 1: who have never been in the military can shoot very well.

1237
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 1: It's actually in this particular case, you know, there was

1238
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:41,040
Speaker 1: all this talk about it being a professional hit and

1239
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 1: actually shooting people in the head at that close of range.

1240
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:47,320
Speaker 1: Isn't that hard? You know, it really isn't. I mean,

1241
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:49,320
Speaker 1: I mean, from an emotional point of view, it would be,

1242
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:50,840
Speaker 1: but I mean from a technical point of view, it's

1243
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:53,960
Speaker 1: not not that hard. Yeah. It also seems like, you know,

1244
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,160
Speaker 1: he abducted this eight year old girl. There was a

1245
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:59,320
Speaker 1: seven year old girl that was severely injured on the scene.

1246
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:02,000
Speaker 1: It seems like, you know, what was stopping him from

1247
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:05,720
Speaker 1: abducting her all that time. You know, he just if

1248
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 1: it was him, he would have had just murdered her

1249
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 1: entire family. I mean, take out with you, man. I'm

1250
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:17,040
Speaker 1: not advocating for that. I'm sorry. I just don't. Yeah, no,

1251
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:21,840
Speaker 1: I get what you're saying. And it seems different, totally different. Well, yeah,

1252
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:24,320
Speaker 1: he seems like more of an opportunist, that's what we're

1253
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:27,560
Speaker 1: talking about, Nordel lan days at just this a total

1254
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:31,720
Speaker 1: opportunist and and and really somebody who likes his victims

1255
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 1: one at a time. Yeah, and way less powerful than him. Yeah,

1256
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:41,600
Speaker 1: probably that too. And then definitely unsuspecting. But the police

1257
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:44,880
Speaker 1: are still checking out any possible connection. They're also looking

1258
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:49,040
Speaker 1: into any connection between apparently nineteen other mysterious disappearances in

1259
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:52,120
Speaker 1: the area. Apparbably there's been a bunch, uh, and so

1260
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:53,840
Speaker 1: he might be connected to at least some of them,

1261
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:56,120
Speaker 1: probably not all of them, you know, I mean there's

1262
01:06:56,120 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 1: no there's no telling. There might be two or three

1263
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 1: serial killers in that particular part of France right now,

1264
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:04,720
Speaker 1: I mean really probably not. Probably not that big of surprise,

1265
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 1: so I don't see. Um. Yeah, the other bicyclist on here,

1266
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:10,720
Speaker 1: which one is that he's not a suspect, which on

1267
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:14,800
Speaker 1: that Bret Brett Martin, now he was, he was considered

1268
01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:17,400
Speaker 1: to be potentially a suspect, you know, And of course

1269
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:19,240
Speaker 1: the Internet made a lot of the fact that well

1270
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 1: you got this this engineer who worked on satellites, and

1271
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:26,280
Speaker 1: you got this this guy who worked in the nuclear industry.

1272
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:29,320
Speaker 1: And then the guy who finds the body just happens

1273
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:32,480
Speaker 1: to be an x R a F pilot. You know,

1274
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 1: A lot was made of that whole thing. Yeah, and

1275
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:39,560
Speaker 1: so they thought big, big government conspiracy and all that stuff.

1276
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:42,720
Speaker 1: But also, you know, it is possible that Brett Martin

1277
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 1: himself was the killer. But they did, I mean they

1278
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:48,000
Speaker 1: the police obviously gave him a close look. I think

1279
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:55,720
Speaker 1: gun for gunpounder, rescue, uh and all that stuff, and

1280
01:07:56,200 --> 01:07:58,480
Speaker 1: you know, and I think probably checked his schedule, like

1281
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:01,480
Speaker 1: did the guy have enough time to to start where

1282
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:03,520
Speaker 1: he did? People saw him? How did you have enough

1283
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:06,040
Speaker 1: time to peddle all the way up there and kill

1284
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:08,160
Speaker 1: everybody and then get the word out. Maybe he did,

1285
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, but it seems unlikely. Yeah, I know,

1286
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:16,679
Speaker 1: he has not considered a viable suspect either. So that's

1287
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:18,880
Speaker 1: it for the guys by name. There's other sort of

1288
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:22,200
Speaker 1: vaguer theories on the internet, one of which is it

1289
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:27,479
Speaker 1: was a road rage incident. Yeah, it's a single car

1290
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:30,960
Speaker 1: road basically, well, where did the other car go? The

1291
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:33,479
Speaker 1: other car had to have left and gone down the

1292
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:36,840
Speaker 1: road where he's not supposed to go unless again, again,

1293
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:38,920
Speaker 1: you only get to go down those roads unless you're

1294
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:42,080
Speaker 1: a poor service worker or a local residents. Otherwise you're

1295
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:44,120
Speaker 1: not supposed to go down and be down there. Of course,

1296
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:45,880
Speaker 1: you can always till you knows that the rules. You

1297
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:48,080
Speaker 1: know too, I mean, probably get away with it. You

1298
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:50,479
Speaker 1: could also be a local resident. Yeah, it could be

1299
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:55,240
Speaker 1: that too, And I tend to think that I tend

1300
01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 1: to think that whoever did this probably was a local

1301
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:01,519
Speaker 1: because I mean acts, because nobody was seeing other than

1302
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:05,439
Speaker 1: the guy on the motorcycle. Nobody was seen leaving the area.

1303
01:09:06,120 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 1: And I guess you could walk out of there on

1304
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:12,280
Speaker 1: foot maybe, you know, But so if you committed, if

1305
01:09:12,280 --> 01:09:15,080
Speaker 1: you committed the murders, you could get out by the

1306
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:17,280
Speaker 1: back way, because if you follow those roads, it's kind

1307
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 1: of a maze. But you really will come back out

1308
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:24,040
Speaker 1: to civilization again about five miles south of there, probably

1309
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:27,200
Speaker 1: considering how how winey the roads are, probably more like

1310
01:09:27,240 --> 01:09:29,920
Speaker 1: about fifteen road miles. You're gonna be doing a lot

1311
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:32,880
Speaker 1: of switchbacks things like that and everything. It's not something

1312
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:34,720
Speaker 1: that I think you could really do if you were

1313
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 1: a stranger. To the area. But if you knew the

1314
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:40,800
Speaker 1: area really well, you could kill those people and take

1315
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:43,320
Speaker 1: the back roads and clear out the other side of

1316
01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:47,000
Speaker 1: those mountains without anybody seeing you exiting the area. And

1317
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:49,200
Speaker 1: so that's why I suspect it was a local that

1318
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:53,120
Speaker 1: did this, who knew the back roads. Yeah, and that's it.

1319
01:09:53,280 --> 01:09:55,479
Speaker 1: I'll throw out one more theory which somebody put out

1320
01:09:55,479 --> 01:09:57,720
Speaker 1: there was racially motivated. They see an Arab looking guy

1321
01:09:57,720 --> 01:09:59,920
Speaker 1: in a nice car and they decided to kill him.

1322
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:04,600
Speaker 1: Of course, yeah, I rolled that was that was you know,

1323
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:07,559
Speaker 1: I just thrown that one in there. It's a it's uh,

1324
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:09,679
Speaker 1: you know. And then unfortunately, you know, the white French

1325
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:11,720
Speaker 1: guy shows up and you gotta kill him too, you know,

1326
01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:15,400
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you know. But so I don't I

1327
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:17,920
Speaker 1: don't buy that one. The only contribution I had to

1328
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:20,080
Speaker 1: make sure the French police on this one. As I

1329
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:22,800
Speaker 1: think I mentioned to you, this guy's the series that

1330
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:26,679
Speaker 1: I have. Well, it's not a theory, yeah, the bag

1331
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:29,320
Speaker 1: at you know, that's it's the luger. Which is the

1332
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:32,200
Speaker 1: thing about lugers is that, um, you know, I've seen

1333
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:35,519
Speaker 1: lugers for sale and stuff like that, and maybe it's

1334
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:39,360
Speaker 1: different in France, but here in America generally used lugers.

1335
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:42,080
Speaker 1: You see him with one magazine, this one had three.

1336
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:45,360
Speaker 1: It's just kind of unusual. It's really, actually very unusual

1337
01:10:45,439 --> 01:10:48,000
Speaker 1: to see a luger with three bags. So if I

1338
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:49,320
Speaker 1: were the police, I'd sort of keep that in the

1339
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:51,920
Speaker 1: back of my head. Not a major thing, but that's

1340
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:54,160
Speaker 1: that's kind of Maybe you're looking at a collector here,

1341
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:59,759
Speaker 1: somebody like that. Um, yeah, I guess. I mean, listen,

1342
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:02,600
Speaker 1: if this thing is an heirloom, because we've we made that,

1343
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:04,640
Speaker 1: we made a statement earlier about it could have been

1344
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:08,479
Speaker 1: something somebody got as an heirloom from all over. Well,

1345
01:11:08,479 --> 01:11:13,400
Speaker 1: then that means that great Grandpa what's his name had

1346
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:17,160
Speaker 1: several clips because at that time you had multiple clips

1347
01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 1: because you were shooting the Nazis and you needed to

1348
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:23,280
Speaker 1: make sure you had a fresh mag at all times.

1349
01:11:23,960 --> 01:11:25,800
Speaker 1: There's nothing to big of a deal. Typically those were

1350
01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:28,280
Speaker 1: carried by officers and that they then they might maybe

1351
01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:30,640
Speaker 1: carry one extra mag I mean, but you kill a

1352
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:33,240
Speaker 1: couple of Nazi officers and you've got yourself a couple

1353
01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:36,000
Speaker 1: of extra magazines. Maybe I don't know. Again, it's just

1354
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:41,679
Speaker 1: it's it's it's yeah, yeah, it's a good point. Yeah,

1355
01:11:41,680 --> 01:11:43,560
Speaker 1: when you medal of honor, there's always magazine. It's just

1356
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:46,240
Speaker 1: laying around right everywhere. That's what I love about that.

1357
01:11:47,080 --> 01:11:49,639
Speaker 1: But now anyway, then that's maybe maybe it's different in Europe.

1358
01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:51,439
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I know here in America, luger

1359
01:11:51,479 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 1: mags are hard to come by. They're expensive. You gotta go,

1360
01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:56,640
Speaker 1: you know, you gotta go to a collector, one of

1361
01:11:56,680 --> 01:12:00,280
Speaker 1: these rare guys that you know, buys and celsis things

1362
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:02,960
Speaker 1: to get them. So it just seems a little unusual

1363
01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:04,960
Speaker 1: to see one with two extra mags. Well it's a

1364
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:08,519
Speaker 1: ruined gun at this point, probably right, because the grip

1365
01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:11,439
Speaker 1: the gun still work. Yeah, you can replace those, the

1366
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:13,559
Speaker 1: gun will still work fine. Yeah, so that's really what

1367
01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:15,679
Speaker 1: they need is the ruined gun because the guy probably

1368
01:12:15,680 --> 01:12:17,560
Speaker 1: threw it in the lake or something. But I was

1369
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:19,080
Speaker 1: going to say, really, what they need to do is

1370
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:22,680
Speaker 1: find all the gun repair guys you know, a two

1371
01:12:23,080 --> 01:12:26,080
Speaker 1: mile radius and say, all right, which one of you

1372
01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:29,160
Speaker 1: fixed a luger that had a broken grip? Yeah, yeah,

1373
01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:32,240
Speaker 1: well there are there are actually uh they're actually craftsmen

1374
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:34,960
Speaker 1: who make replacement grips for guns. Like you can buy

1375
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 1: some fancy Rosewood grips for your must revolve or something

1376
01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:40,880
Speaker 1: like that. So yeah, contact all those guys who ordered

1377
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:42,680
Speaker 1: some Luger grips, you know, and then there you go,

1378
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 1: that's your guy. Yeah, guys, come on, I know, I

1379
01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:51,679
Speaker 1: know the but the police, you know, again and again,

1380
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:55,240
Speaker 1: unless Nordal the serial killer decides to confess, which I

1381
01:12:55,280 --> 01:12:57,720
Speaker 1: really doubt he will because number one, I doubt that

1382
01:12:57,760 --> 01:12:59,280
Speaker 1: he did it. But even if he did do it,

1383
01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:01,400
Speaker 1: I don't think he's going to confess because he didn't

1384
01:13:01,439 --> 01:13:04,080
Speaker 1: fess up to killing the little girl and also killing

1385
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:06,360
Speaker 1: that twenty four year old soldier until the police presented

1386
01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:08,720
Speaker 1: him with all the evidence against him. They had him

1387
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:11,320
Speaker 1: dead to rights, and then he finally fessed up and

1388
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:14,120
Speaker 1: said where the bodies were and stuff. So they don't

1389
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 1: have anything on anybody for this killing. So I highly

1390
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:24,080
Speaker 1: suspect nobody is ever going to get caught for this one. Yeah. Well, actually,

1391
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:26,360
Speaker 1: the French police, there is one thing. If he started

1392
01:13:26,360 --> 01:13:29,519
Speaker 1: to go fund me or every appropriation to bring us

1393
01:13:29,560 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 1: to France, we might be still take a trip. We

1394
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:37,280
Speaker 1: will come over there, and the camera glued to my

1395
01:13:37,320 --> 01:13:41,400
Speaker 1: face all the time because taking crime scene photographs not

1396
01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:47,439
Speaker 1: enjoying the beautiful that's happening alright. So anyway, if you're

1397
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:49,920
Speaker 1: if you have any ideas thoughts on this one, send

1398
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,960
Speaker 1: us an email. We have an email account. It's um

1399
01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:56,880
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail dot com. You forgot it

1400
01:13:56,920 --> 01:13:59,320
Speaker 1: for a second there, Well, now there was a little

1401
01:13:59,320 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 1: posse there. I was a about to recite my own

1402
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:07,840
Speaker 1: perfect I just caught myself in the neck of time. Yeah, okay. Also,

1403
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:10,160
Speaker 1: of course, we have a web page that's Thinking Sideways

1404
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:14,360
Speaker 1: podcast dot com where you can find our episodes. There's

1405
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:17,400
Speaker 1: an episode list you can there's a link to buy

1406
01:14:17,439 --> 01:14:20,320
Speaker 1: merch and god what else do we have on there?

1407
01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:24,360
Speaker 1: There's the don't forget about the link to premium. Yes,

1408
01:14:24,479 --> 01:14:27,320
Speaker 1: I always forgot about that. Yes, there is a list

1409
01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:32,200
Speaker 1: list linked link. Yeah yeah. And by the way, speaking

1410
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:34,640
Speaker 1: of Stitcher Premium, you will find us there if you

1411
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:37,160
Speaker 1: haven't already. Bet on Stitcher Premium. You get our episodes

1412
01:14:37,680 --> 01:14:39,840
Speaker 1: what three or four days earlier, you get them on

1413
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:43,360
Speaker 1: money instead of Thursday with in their commercial free and

1414
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:46,840
Speaker 1: you also get bonus content. Yeah, you get a free

1415
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:48,960
Speaker 1: episode of month. So that you are you want is

1416
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:52,280
Speaker 1: stitcher dot com slash Thinking Sideways And if you use

1417
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:55,559
Speaker 1: Supremo codes Sideways you get one month free and some

1418
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:59,080
Speaker 1: of the cool stuff too. So yes, gets signed up today.

1419
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:01,519
Speaker 1: And of course you can find us at other places,

1420
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:03,320
Speaker 1: why would you want to? But you can't find us

1421
01:15:03,320 --> 01:15:07,120
Speaker 1: at other streaming places also like Google Play and such.

1422
01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:09,920
Speaker 1: And of course we are on iTunes. You can subscribe,

1423
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:11,519
Speaker 1: you can give us a rating and a review. We

1424
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:15,000
Speaker 1: liked those, especially good ratings and great reviews. We love those.

1425
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:18,160
Speaker 1: And of course we're on social media Facebook, where we

1426
01:15:18,200 --> 01:15:21,439
Speaker 1: have a group and a page. Yeah, and so you

1427
01:15:21,479 --> 01:15:23,760
Speaker 1: know you like the page and then you joined the group.

1428
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:26,519
Speaker 1: That's where all the action is. Uh, there's lots of

1429
01:15:26,600 --> 01:15:29,160
Speaker 1: back and forth and all kinds of good stuff. And

1430
01:15:29,400 --> 01:15:32,800
Speaker 1: we're on Twitter, where we are thinking sideways. Anything good

1431
01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:35,080
Speaker 1: on Twitter these days? Devon? Now, I didn't think so.

1432
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 1: And we have Subreddit thinking sideways and uh, let nothing

1433
01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:43,360
Speaker 1: going on and going on there. And of course we're

1434
01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:47,439
Speaker 1: on Instagram. Yeah yeah, Instagram, lots of fun, cool stuff

1435
01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:50,200
Speaker 1: out there. I thinking sideways podcast on that one. Yeah,

1436
01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:52,880
Speaker 1: oh yes, that's right. I forgot taking sideways podcast because

1437
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:57,479
Speaker 1: there's another You guys keep mentioning them, you're giving them

1438
01:15:57,520 --> 01:16:01,759
Speaker 1: tons of traffic. Give are your and call it good? Yeah, okay,

1439
01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:04,040
Speaker 1: it sounds good. So that's everything you need to know,

1440
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:06,240
Speaker 1: I think. All right, well that's it for this week.

1441
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:11,599
Speaker 1: Any final thoughts you guys. This one's super sad, Yeah

1442
01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:13,920
Speaker 1: it is. It is really sad. Yeah, especially a little

1443
01:16:14,160 --> 01:16:17,599
Speaker 1: the little kids and all. Yeah yeah, but anyway, like

1444
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:19,880
Speaker 1: I said, send us over there. We'll fix it, all right,

1445
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:21,479
Speaker 1: But talk you guys later. Thie guys,