Speaker 1: Yo, what's up? How's it going?
Speaker 2: Yo? What's up? It's going good?
Speaker 1: What's your name?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: Fuck? I didn't think of that.
Speaker 1: That's okay, I'm gonna call you, Uh Sam?
Speaker 2: I like Sam? Sam is Sam is great?
Speaker 1: Sam?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 2: What's up? Flow? Life is good? I texted you that
Speaker 2: I was eating quinoa salads and then it's delicious. Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: I was gonna crack open a kombucha and that's about.
Speaker 2: That's about what I've what I've got going on. How's
Speaker 2: the how's the night? Are you still?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Were you in Japan? Are you still in Japan?
Speaker 1: Sam? What? Uh? What's up?
Speaker 3: Sam?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 1: Uh? Would you want to talk about today?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: I I mean, I mean there, let's see things I
Speaker 2: wanted to talk about. I I low key wish I
Speaker 2: was a girl. Mm hmm. There's that. Yeah, maybe that's
Speaker 2: what I want to talk about. I'll take that.
Speaker 3: Mm hm.
Speaker 2: So I'm a I mean, I mean, you know, it's
Speaker 2: the way my voice sounds is like I'm a boy,
Speaker 2: you know, and like I don't know, I've always always
Speaker 2: felt like kind of kind of different, kind of like
Speaker 2: I was never into sports and shit like that, and
Speaker 2: lately It's like I just moved to a I moved
Speaker 2: to a very like progressive town. I'm very young, and
Speaker 2: now that I'm around a bunch of people who are like,
Speaker 2: oh shit, you can be you can be different than
Speaker 2: what what you what the world told you you were
Speaker 2: when you were born. And I'm kind of like, kind
Speaker 2: of fucked up about back because it's like, I don't
Speaker 2: really know what to think. It sounds like a lot
Speaker 2: of efforts, but yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: No, definitely way more effort than being a guy. A
Speaker 1: lot more products you're gonna have.
Speaker 3: You're gonna need a lot more.
Speaker 1: Shelf space on your shower. For sure. You're gonna need
Speaker 1: to start using I don't know if you're I don't
Speaker 1: know if you've been using three and one shampoo, conditioner,
Speaker 1: body wash. But you're gonna have to uh uh, the
Speaker 1: three separate things.
Speaker 2: I got curly hair, So yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, okay, all right, So you're already doing okay
Speaker 1: on the products front.
Speaker 2: I'm doing all right on the products.
Speaker 1: That's so okay. So where did you grow up?
Speaker 2: I grew up in a small Midwest college town.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, So tell me this. So, okay, the thing
Speaker 1: of like, yet, you grow up in like a small
Speaker 1: town and you have this idea of the universe, and
Speaker 1: then you leave and then you meet these other people
Speaker 1: you have this ol experience, and you're like, whoa, what
Speaker 1: the fucking fucking the universe expands infinitely beyond whatever what
Speaker 1: I thought it was in my small town. You're like,
Speaker 1: and you said that your reaction to this was that
Speaker 1: it fucked you up, not that it like excited you.
Speaker 1: Why why do you think this fucked you up as
Speaker 1: opposed to exciting you.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's that's a good question. I mean, let me think.
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess right now, I feel fucked up
Speaker 2: about it because it's like there's a lot of things
Speaker 2: I want. They're new, they're like that are really easy
Speaker 2: to get and hard to get in the same way, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's like now, you know, if I
Speaker 2: wanted to fucking become a girl, I could and I
Speaker 2: don't know. It's it sucks me up because it's like
Speaker 2: I feel it feels like there's a lot of people
Speaker 2: around me now who like really did know what they
Speaker 2: want and they got that, and it's like I don't
Speaker 2: know what I want?
Speaker 1: Interesting, you know, Yeah, no, I feel when you're around
Speaker 1: a lot of like, uh, decisive people, you it can no,
Speaker 1: it totally fucks you up. You're like, oh, fuck, am
Speaker 1: I supposed to know exactly what I want to do?
Speaker 1: What are you indecisive about? Like whether or not you
Speaker 1: want to be a girl?
Speaker 2: I guess so, I mean ideally, uh, in my opinion,
Speaker 2: the ideal world is one where gender doesn't exist. Like,
Speaker 2: I think it's totally unnecessary. I think it causes so
Speaker 2: much more harm than the good and like, you know,
Speaker 2: like but but I don't know. It's it's like a
Speaker 2: thing that for it's you know, literally binary literally forces
Speaker 2: you to decide mm hmm.
Speaker 1: I mean you can do I mean, listen, this thing
Speaker 1: where where you're you've decided like, oh, I can exist
Speaker 1: outside of the realm of of of of what the
Speaker 1: universe and what society has set as being the thing.
Speaker 1: I'm very pro that. I'm very pro. I mean, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm very pro that. Do you The problem is that
Speaker 1: you do, like yes, like in choosing that path, you
Speaker 1: do inevitably have to deal with like the inevitable cons
Speaker 1: of doing that. Yeah, you know, so I feel you
Speaker 1: on that there are kind of inevitable cons of going
Speaker 1: against the grain, but they also provide you with pros.
Speaker 1: But the good I mean, the good thing for you
Speaker 1: is that you can I mean you can just you
Speaker 1: can do whatever you want, like if you want to,
Speaker 1: especially Like, Okay, so you're in this where where did
Speaker 1: you move? Two from the small town?
Speaker 2: Uh we'll say, we'll say a gay West coast city.
Speaker 2: There's a couple and I stay there elder.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So if you're in this gay West Coast city, Like,
Speaker 1: how old are you?
Speaker 2: I'm fucking eighteen. I'm in high school.
Speaker 1: Bro, oh you're eighteen?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Oh shit? Do you just move there for college?
Speaker 2: Uh? Yeah I am. I'm probably gonna go to college here,
Speaker 2: and like yeah, okay, yeah, I just need to kind
Speaker 2: of get out of the Midwest.
Speaker 4: What I mean, Shit, fucking perfect time, just uh if
Speaker 4: like but yeah, right, because like in your gut, if
Speaker 4: you're if this is something you want to try, and
Speaker 4: if it's because like if if in your gut this
Speaker 4: is something that you wanted to try, and like you
Speaker 4: kind of felt.
Speaker 1: It the whole time, Like I mean, give it a
Speaker 1: give it a try. Right, You're in a new place,
Speaker 1: You're in a new environment. Yeah, yeah, I mean fuck
Speaker 1: fuck dog, like give it a try to see how
Speaker 1: you feel.
Speaker 2: Yeah, actually, yeah, I guess it's like dealing with the
Speaker 2: like no matter where am I, even if it's like whatever,
Speaker 2: I just moved, it's like there's people who know me,
Speaker 2: and it's like I have to deal with like being
Speaker 2: vulnerable with people I don't want to like like like
Speaker 2: asking so much of people to like be like yo,
Speaker 2: totally change your perception of me.
Speaker 1: You know. Well, so it's it's hard. It's hard, right
Speaker 1: because you can't really like it, guess, and forget about
Speaker 1: like the whatever, the stupid the politics around like being
Speaker 1: transgender or whatever. Just the general idea of like like
Speaker 1: figure out like this, just the general idea of like
Speaker 1: you really have very little control of other people's perception
Speaker 1: of you, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Like supsetting?
Speaker 1: Why why is that upsetting? It just is like a
Speaker 1: fact of reality that you have no control of other
Speaker 1: people's perceptions of you. Right, it's a factive reality. But
Speaker 1: I but if and if I think if you're going
Speaker 1: to take that fact, you don't necessarily have to take
Speaker 1: that fact and look at it as inherently upsetting. But
Speaker 1: there's another fact that you've recently has But this other
Speaker 1: fact of reality has come into your life which is exciting,
Speaker 1: which is that like the the the idea of who
Speaker 1: you are and other people's perceptions of you doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be the way in which you like live your life,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: So, and that's and that's a that's a it's a
Speaker 1: bit of a terrifying But why well why am I
Speaker 1: saying it's terrifying. It's just a fact of reality. It
Speaker 1: can be another, it can be an exciting thing. Right,
Speaker 1: So if you want to look at these two facts, right,
Speaker 1: you can't decide other people's perception of you and just
Speaker 1: be like, I'm okay with that. And then also other
Speaker 1: people can't decide my perception of myself and that's great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So do with those two things what you will, right?
Speaker 1: And what within those two things can you do to
Speaker 1: make yourself feel just like proud and happy of the
Speaker 1: life that you're living.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. I guess I guess going forth would
Speaker 2: help be be deciding something, just doing anything about it
Speaker 2: could help mm hmm yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: I Well, so what what about mm hmmm mmmm? What
Speaker 1: do you what are you most? What are you most
Speaker 1: afraid of.
Speaker 2: I'm most afraid of. I mean, I'm pretty afraid of
Speaker 2: people thinking I'm evil, people thinking you're people, people taking
Speaker 2: people seeing me. Uh. I mean, I guess it's kind
Speaker 2: of self to be like I'm afraid of however people seems.
Speaker 2: But it's like like whatever, I'm afraid that people don't
Speaker 2: see me how I feel me?
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, why are you afraid of people seeing
Speaker 1: that you're evil? Do you let me? Well? Do you
Speaker 1: do you think you're evil?
Speaker 2: I think I kind of do, Like I kind of
Speaker 2: think I'm kind of evil, like because a lot of
Speaker 2: time I just I'm just like I should do whatever
Speaker 2: the hell I want, which is kind of evil. And
Speaker 2: it's like I don't know because because it like, okay,
Speaker 2: this is another thing, holy fucked side tangent. But I
Speaker 2: low key don't feel empathy that often, which is kind
Speaker 2: of fuck though. But it's like it's like, yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't know, I don't know. It's like I'm trying to
Speaker 2: my my my values are like you know, whatever, be
Speaker 2: nice and shit, but it's like I don't feel it
Speaker 2: in my heart that much, which is kind of great today,
Speaker 2: But I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, interesting mm hmm I mean, if you want to
Speaker 1: subscribe to this, like okay, just to keep this like
Speaker 1: theory that this uh thread going right, if you want
Speaker 1: to subscribe to the idea that the universe is fairly
Speaker 1: chaotic and subjective, uh yeah, and you can be whatever
Speaker 1: you want and do what everyone and like whatever, like
Speaker 1: you kind of get to decide what's evil, right.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm okay, mm hm, so you can you get.
Speaker 1: To decide like you get you can, you can if
Speaker 1: and if you want to and I just meet. What
Speaker 1: I think is the most beneficial is to like look
Speaker 1: at yourself and go like, okay, how do I best
Speaker 1: like operate within my own like framework of of whatever.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that means anything?
Speaker 2: No, no, yeah, yeah, what words?
Speaker 1: Yeah? So like I don't know, I don't know, just
Speaker 1: try your just try your best. I guess, yeah, I
Speaker 1: guess I kind of yeah, I don't know if this
Speaker 1: makes sense? Am I being crazy?
Speaker 2: I think that makes sense? I think them all right,
Speaker 2: it's kind of like who gives a fuck? But yeah
Speaker 2: m hm m hmm.
Speaker 1: Okay, was this helpful?
Speaker 2: I think I think this is helpful.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: I think it's nice to just talk about it. Because
Speaker 2: it's like it's like, what the fuck I don't talk
Speaker 2: about this is like not this is veral Like there's
Speaker 2: like two there's like two people I've talked about about that.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think it's helpful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's easier. So it's it's easier said than done
Speaker 1: to not care about other people's perception of you, hun
Speaker 1: because that's I mean, are like we're like biologically wired
Speaker 1: to do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think about that all the time. It's
Speaker 2: like it's like it's like if you do something wrong,
Speaker 2: it's like people would fucking kill you, and it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's how we that's how we would stay alive. That's that.
Speaker 2: Shit's fascinating.
Speaker 1: Yes, it is true. Our animal brain it's okay. Yeah,
Speaker 1: our animal brains subscribe to the idea that we need
Speaker 1: to care what other people think about because us, because
Speaker 1: that's how we used to live. And like if you
Speaker 1: got out ousted from the tribe, you couldn't survive. But
Speaker 1: we live in uh a half animal half human world
Speaker 1: and the human evolved part of your brain is like,
Speaker 1: oh shit, like I can receive the universe above. I've
Speaker 1: evolved is an organism to be able to perceive the
Speaker 1: universe beyond the rules of my biology, and I can
Speaker 1: cheat them and work with it. It's kind of fucking
Speaker 1: crazy if you think about.
Speaker 2: It, it's crazy. It makes it sound pretty cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, yes, it's true. So you can use your
Speaker 1: higher human intellect to go above your biological need to
Speaker 1: have everyone's approval and then enter, you know, become an
Speaker 1: evolved being who just kind of lives in their own orbis.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then you know, be a girl if you
Speaker 1: so desire.
Speaker 2: All right, Therapy Geto told me to tell me to
Speaker 2: be a girl.
Speaker 3: It cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just do do what you want. Dog, What were
Speaker 1: you gonna say?
Speaker 2: All right, it'd be cool if we can. I'll just
Speaker 2: be lizards and like lick our eyes and ship.
Speaker 1: That. Well. Well, this is this is like my whole thing.
Speaker 1: I made a whole video about this. But now being
Speaker 1: a humans good. It's uh, there's gifts, there's there's there's
Speaker 1: gift there's as with everything, it's a double edged sword,
Speaker 1: but uh, I'll take the gifts over the over the
Speaker 1: cons Sam. Yeah, is there anything else you want to
Speaker 1: say to the people of the computer before we go.
Speaker 2: Go to a hardcore punk show? Go see go or
Speaker 2: just go see live music. There's a lot of really
Speaker 2: hot people and bad music to be seen.
Speaker 1: I love bad music.
Speaker 2: I do too, Thank you, sir, Thank you. Mile.
Speaker 1: Hello, Hi, Hello, what's up? What's your name? My name
Speaker 1: is Drew, Drew, Drew Carrey. Yeah, Drew, you texted me
Speaker 1: and you said I've been calling around for lawyers about
Speaker 1: me being hacked because weird things have been happening and
Speaker 1: people have been recording my phone conversations.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, right, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I have no idea. I'm perplexed. I'm perplexed by Yes,
Speaker 1: are you airsta? I'm not a lawyer. I'm a I
Speaker 1: don't know what I am right.
Speaker 3: It's still it's something i'd like to talk about.
Speaker 1: Okay, great, Okay, cool. I'm perplexed. I don't I'm confused.
Speaker 1: I'm scared, please.
Speaker 3: As am I so about? I don't know if you
Speaker 3: can see the text messages from like a couple of
Speaker 3: months ago, but yeah, about almost three years ago now,
Speaker 3: I've been uh like I was starting on my business
Speaker 3: being uh like consulting firm like life coaching, and uh
Speaker 3: called up I was cold calling, called up this one guy,
Speaker 3: and uh, well, we started arguing because he tried to
Speaker 3: sell to me when I was trying to I guess
Speaker 3: selp him.
Speaker 1: Okay, stop here, hold on. So you're a life you're
Speaker 1: a life coach.
Speaker 2: No, not anymore.
Speaker 3: This is like three years ago, dude.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay, okay. So at the time, at the time,
Speaker 1: you're a life coach and you start cold calling people,
Speaker 1: how do okay, where do you find the people to
Speaker 1: cold call? So like, how do you find people who
Speaker 1: whose lives are going terribly so they need a life coach?
Speaker 1: Like where do you get these leads?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 3: Well, someone them I got from, uh, the coach that
Speaker 3: I hired. H And also like like friends, like like
Speaker 3: me calling around my friends uh and then giving Like
Speaker 3: there's a thing called three for free, so you help
Speaker 3: out three people or three to five people, ten people
Speaker 3: or whatever, and then you ask them for three referrals
Speaker 3: and then yeah, so that rabbit hole.
Speaker 1: What kind of life coaching were you doing?
Speaker 3: Uh? That was helping specifically my niche was just at
Speaker 3: the time, it was pretty much anyone. I didn't have
Speaker 3: a niche, but I was helping musicians like that were
Speaker 3: that were like stuck. Yeah, that were like oh man,
Speaker 3: I don't. Yeah, they were like they like musicians, they
Speaker 3: are really creative people, but like they don't know the
Speaker 3: business side of it. And I'm very familiar with business
Speaker 3: and selling because I was a nightclub promoter and a
Speaker 3: strip club promoter in Las Vegas for like ten years,
Speaker 3: so like I knew how to like sell music. I
Speaker 3: worked with all of the I worked for every single
Speaker 3: nightclub and strip club in Las Vegas for over the
Speaker 3: course of like nine or ten years. So I thought
Speaker 3: I could bring something to the table and uh yeah,
Speaker 3: and then called up you know, some people, and then
Speaker 3: I got it into a heated argument old hola.
Speaker 1: Hold on, Well, we're gonna trust me, We're gonna get there.
Speaker 1: But I have more questions about your life. You have
Speaker 1: an interesting life. Man. We're gonna get there, thank you,
Speaker 1: But I have I have more questions for you before
Speaker 1: we get into what's why your phone has been hacked? Okay,
Speaker 1: so you worked as a strip club promoter for ten years.
Speaker 1: We're gonna go through your entire life. I need to
Speaker 1: fill an hour of podcasts, and I feel like we
Speaker 1: can do it with you. I'm gonna fill as much
Speaker 1: of the of the you like as soon as you
Speaker 1: said you said a few things in the past two minutes,
Speaker 1: so I was like, we've got at least forty five
Speaker 1: minutes of podcasts to do. Okay, I'm honored you. How
Speaker 1: did you get involved as a strip club promoter? And
Speaker 1: what does that even look like?
Speaker 3: When I was I don't know, like sixteen years old
Speaker 3: or seventeen years old, I stumbled across the television show
Speaker 3: The Pickup Artist, and I was a loser, you know.
Speaker 3: I was like, never had a girlfriend or anything. I mean,
Speaker 3: not many people have when they're like sixteen or seventeen
Speaker 3: years old, but I was pretty desperate, and I was like, right,
Speaker 3: somebled across I stumbled across the TV show and they're like,
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, I can't believe you to learn how
Speaker 3: to pick up girls Ormano as a seventeen year old
Speaker 3: or yeah, I was sixteen when that show came out.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh my gosh, you can. And then
Speaker 3: I bought the books and then I went to a
Speaker 3: teen club when I was sixteen.
Speaker 1: Wait you went to Wait you went to a teenage
Speaker 1: pickup artist club.
Speaker 3: No, I mean it wasn't a pickup artist club. It's
Speaker 3: just a nightclub for sixteen year old.
Speaker 1: Oh oh teen clubs? Yeah, oh you went to a
Speaker 1: teen cup?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah yeah, dude, yeah, that's funny. I no, no,
Speaker 1: I went to I dude, No, I went to shit
Speaker 1: like that when I was a kid. It's so like
Speaker 1: as an adult, so weird looking back on it, like
Speaker 1: a like an in Ocean City, Maryland, there was this
Speaker 1: place called H two. Oh have you heard of that place? Yeah?
Speaker 3: No, I went to a place called Inferno and Pontiac
Speaker 3: when I was sixteen. Okay, I don't think it's around anymore.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're okay, So.
Speaker 3: I was nervous wreck yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're sixteen you go to one of those
Speaker 1: like weird teenage nightclubs. You just read a bunch of
Speaker 1: pickup Artistry book? Yeah please got fat? Yeah sure, okay,
Speaker 1: we'll keep going.
Speaker 3: And the Mystery Method. And when I turned twenty one,
Speaker 3: my friend was like, I want to move to Las Vegas.
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh my gosh, yes, that sounds
Speaker 3: like a great idea because I wanted at that time,
Speaker 3: I wanted to be pick up coach.
Speaker 1: Interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so at twenty one I moved to Las
Speaker 3: Vegas because I thought I could be a you know,
Speaker 3: pick up coach, hown my own craft pick up girls?
Speaker 1: Were you doing? Were you doing like like when you
Speaker 1: were eighteen or seventeen or whatever? Were you coaching other
Speaker 1: high school kids at the teen clubs had to pick
Speaker 1: up girls?
Speaker 3: No? No, I was. I was a nervous wreck. I
Speaker 3: only went that one time because I was like so
Speaker 3: much of a nervous wreck that I didn't go to
Speaker 3: another club until I was like eighteen.
Speaker 1: Whow interesting. Okay, So you get into you get into
Speaker 1: all this stuff, and then at twenty one, you're like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with my homemide to Vegas and become
Speaker 1: a pickup artist coach. Yeah, okay, and how did that?
Speaker 1: How did that work out?
Speaker 3: Well? I ran the largest meetup group WHOA.
Speaker 1: In the world for pick for a pickup artistry? Yeah,
Speaker 1: like you ran you the world, You ran the largest
Speaker 1: because I feel like, I mean that's a that's a
Speaker 1: bold claim, because I feel like those guys are like
Speaker 1: like the most famous what like the like the I
Speaker 1: feel like really like those guys, Like I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know any of their names, but I know that
Speaker 1: they exist and like people done videos of them and stuff. Like,
Speaker 1: so you ran the biggest what are you like a
Speaker 1: public figure of some kind?
Speaker 3: I'm not. I was like working with the biggest people though,
Speaker 3: like it's kind of a it's kind of a thing
Speaker 3: to try and stay because everything is like underground. And
Speaker 3: the famous ones that I worked with, all of them,
Speaker 3: like they gave free talks at my meetups, all of them.
Speaker 3: So people from Real Social Dynamics. I've worked with Real
Speaker 3: Social Dynamics after about like five years.
Speaker 1: What is Real Social.
Speaker 3: Dynamics it, I don't think it's around anymore. But that
Speaker 3: was like the biggest pickup artist company and I worked
Speaker 3: with I met a guy named rsd Luke Luke Rogue
Speaker 3: and anyone that's I guess listening would know Owen Cook
Speaker 3: aka Tyler Durden from the book The Game.
Speaker 1: Tyler. I thought Tyler Durden was the fight club guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's that's the that was his like stage name.
Speaker 1: Owen Cook.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay, I have more. I have so many more questions.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that we this is we're talking about. Okay.
Speaker 3: So, and then there's like Julian Blanc who was famous
Speaker 3: for he really blew up on social media. I forgot
Speaker 3: what year it was.
Speaker 1: But is he the guy that wears like that? I
Speaker 1: know there's one of these guys that wears like a
Speaker 1: funny hat.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a mystery mister. That's the stage aim.
Speaker 3: His real name is Eric von Markovic and so like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, even guy like Pete Cables.
Speaker 1: Okay, so a guy like that, right, Like does he
Speaker 1: actually get a lot of girls? Like he's just like
Speaker 1: a guy in a.
Speaker 3: Hat mystery Now? I know, like maybe back in the day,
Speaker 3: like when he wrote the book and he had the
Speaker 3: TV show, Yeah, probably, But I mean.
Speaker 2: Like.
Speaker 3: The more I dove into it, the more I realized
Speaker 3: that like a lot of them, a lot of like
Speaker 3: not just mystery but like most of the dating coaches
Speaker 3: and stuff, they're just like kind of just milking the
Speaker 3: uh right, you know, the fame right, which I mean
Speaker 3: like fame, fame can get you laid. But they were
Speaker 3: just like leaning heavy on that and they're just like
Speaker 3: you know, they got like wife and kids and stuff.
Speaker 3: You know, they're just like, yeah, I'll just show you
Speaker 3: how which is I guess like that's the end goal.
Speaker 3: But they kind of like lost that that edge, you
Speaker 3: know that they lost the isn't.
Speaker 1: The isn't the goal isn't the goal is the Okay
Speaker 1: now I actually okay, I actually want to talk to
Speaker 1: you about, like again, pick up artistry in general, right
Speaker 1: is it? Like I don't know, I feel like all
Speaker 1: is there? Is there really anything? Is really anything?
Speaker 2: Too?
Speaker 1: Like all you really have to do, I think is
Speaker 1: like be physically attractive and like confident, Like what is
Speaker 1: with all the what is like? What is the like
Speaker 1: like like I don't really believe in like this whole
Speaker 1: thing of like there's some magic like game that I
Speaker 1: mean learn or well yeah, sure, but I think but
Speaker 1: like I don't like the idea that like there's a
Speaker 1: magical spell that you can say or like mind manipulation
Speaker 1: tactics or whatever. Seems like yeah, you're correct wild to me.
Speaker 3: There's charisma, right, and then there's you got to think
Speaker 3: of logistics, Like if you want to pick up a
Speaker 3: girl tonight, well you gotta like plan ahead, right, I
Speaker 3: mean you could do like last moment thing, but legit
Speaker 3: thin really kind of fuck.
Speaker 1: You're like you're coaching guys, and like you have to
Speaker 1: clean your room before you bring a curl.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like clean the pubes around your toilet bowl,
Speaker 3: you know, because.
Speaker 1: Are you really, are you, sir? Is that really what
Speaker 1: like like find like a good parking spot. Is that
Speaker 1: the kind of shit you're like talking to people?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean yeah, I mean if you if you're
Speaker 3: pulling a girl from the club right and she's got
Speaker 3: heels on, she might be a quitter after like ten
Speaker 3: minutes of walking in those heels like hes off, you know.
Speaker 3: But if you're if you're parked like thirty minutes away,
Speaker 3: I mean, she might just be like nah, I think
Speaker 3: I'll just get an uber, you know, like you gotta
Speaker 3: think of things like that, you.
Speaker 1: Know what, Actually, I actually, you know what for like
Speaker 1: all for the guff that I pick up artistry gets
Speaker 1: that's actually rather rather consider it, I would say, of
Speaker 1: a logistical element to consider. You know, if a girl's
Speaker 1: wearing heels, you don't want her to have to walk
Speaker 1: too far. That's actually there's something kind of sweet about that.
Speaker 1: I actually.
Speaker 3: And so if you're going around talking to a bunch
Speaker 3: of girls in the nightclub, and or if you're going
Speaker 3: around and talking, you know, just having general conversations, there's
Speaker 3: like a couple of questions you can ask, see, hey,
Speaker 3: is this like a good candidate for a one night stand,
Speaker 3: or am I gonna have to get her number for
Speaker 3: like another time. So if she's saying, you know, because
Speaker 3: I lived in Las Vegas, Oh, her plane leaves in
Speaker 3: like a couple of hours, maybe that she's not you know,
Speaker 3: she doesn't want the quickie right now. You know, like
Speaker 3: maybe go talk to someone else and save some time,
Speaker 3: or you know, grab her phone number, grab her Instagram.
Speaker 3: I would always go for like Instagram or Snapchat because
Speaker 3: then you can kind of keep them in the back
Speaker 3: burner if they look at your stories and they get
Speaker 3: li fomo, and then they can hitch you up when
Speaker 3: they come back.
Speaker 1: Does this pursuit? Do you have a Do you have
Speaker 1: a girlfriend?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Now I do. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean after a while, does it don't you get
Speaker 1: a little tired?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I kind of got sick of going in nightclibs.
Speaker 3: I left it. I guess pick up art stuff like
Speaker 3: back in like twenty twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1: Sure, I mean it makes sense that when you're younger,
Speaker 1: but as you get older, it's like, yeah, you know
Speaker 1: this is.
Speaker 3: I'm thirty four now. Yeah, I mean like yeah, I
Speaker 3: mean I don't mind talking about this kind of stuff
Speaker 3: about like pick up artistry and stuff, because it's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean I got pretty pretty good at it. You know,
Speaker 3: it's like very once you get like you kind of
Speaker 3: get a system down going to the nightclib so often
Speaker 3: or pulling from say like Tender or any dating app.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're doing these meetups. What like what kind
Speaker 1: of guys are going on the meetups? What's the demographic?
Speaker 3: I would say eighty percent are either in it or autistic?
Speaker 1: Interesting? Yeah, interesting.
Speaker 3: Anytime like I had a large group, I would say,
Speaker 3: how many of you are in it? Because they're like
Speaker 3: very logical thinking people. And right, those are the people
Speaker 3: that in it that usually are either in college or
Speaker 3: they just they're pretty well established in you got money.
Speaker 1: Like I mean it. I mean no, it does make
Speaker 1: sense that a very logical thinking person would be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I want to find I want to have sex. Let
Speaker 1: me take a course on it and find this logistical
Speaker 1: formula to like do that.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and they get a little too logical and
Speaker 3: you gotta kind of help them out of that.
Speaker 1: Have you have you have you encountered a lot of
Speaker 1: like autistic or like people who have like lower social skills.
Speaker 1: Have you have you seen a lot of guys like
Speaker 1: that transform into like, you know, confident people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, some of them kind of have to like, uh,
Speaker 3: you know, you teach body language so that way it
Speaker 3: can kind of help them reach social cues. Like I
Speaker 3: would recommend the book like the Definitive Book of Body Language.
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. I've I actually have always you'd
Speaker 1: be an interesting person to talking about this. I have
Speaker 1: always wondered to myself if like social skills are a
Speaker 1: thing that can be taught, or if like, because sometimes
Speaker 1: I do believe that like social skills and like charisma
Speaker 1: and whatnot are kind of a thing of like you
Speaker 1: either have it or you don't, you know, like like
Speaker 1: like I meet like I just meet people all the
Speaker 1: time and who just like have the sauce, you know,
Speaker 1: like they just are able to like get people to
Speaker 1: like them very easily, like that like everything they say
Speaker 1: makes sense, you know, they just like, yeah, you know
Speaker 1: how to do it.
Speaker 3: I mean social is like being social is just like
Speaker 3: a practice. You know, if someone says something e to you,
Speaker 3: if someone like you know, you're at the bar talking
Speaker 3: to like a girl and some showed walks up and
Speaker 3: starts like you know, what are those as he points
Speaker 3: out your shoes. You know, it's just like how do
Speaker 3: you combat that? At the first time, you know, you
Speaker 3: might be like, uh, You're like I don't know what
Speaker 3: to say. But second time around, when someone comes up
Speaker 3: and they're like, you know, trying to take your girl
Speaker 3: away that you're that you've just been talking to for
Speaker 3: like twenty minutes, so she's willing to walk away at
Speaker 3: any moment, you know, you can be like, hey, nice shirt, dude,
Speaker 3: does it coming, straight guy or whatever? You know, like
Speaker 3: just like just you know, and in front of them.
Speaker 1: Is in one of the books Nice shirt, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: straight Guy is one of.
Speaker 3: The books that's that was one of my lines that
Speaker 3: I would just like.
Speaker 1: It.
Speaker 3: It gets people took because you can't get out of that,
Speaker 3: you know. But I learned if you just like in
Speaker 3: front of them like kind of yeah. If if you're
Speaker 3: just like kind of like step in front of them
Speaker 3: just like a little bit and just continue talking, most
Speaker 3: guys just kind of like turn around there and they
Speaker 3: just give up real quick.
Speaker 1: Nice shirt does it come? And straight up? I'm gonna
Speaker 1: use that.
Speaker 3: Okay, go ahead, man, I hung out my jersey.
Speaker 1: So you were running these pickup artists circles, and then
Speaker 1: how did that come into Like Okay, so you've been
Speaker 1: like a like a coach for a while and this
Speaker 1: kind of led to you being being like a life
Speaker 1: coach of some kind.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the community kind of just like blew up. Yeah,
Speaker 3: no one was doing it anymore because back in twenty
Speaker 3: i'd say twenty nineteen or so twenty eighteen, there was
Speaker 3: like a kind of like social media was doing like
Speaker 3: this purge where they were like deleting a bunch of
Speaker 3: social media accounts of like all of the famous pickup artists.
Speaker 3: They're like deleting their like YouTube channels and Facebook accounts
Speaker 3: and stuff like that. Mostly because I believe because Julian Blanc,
Speaker 3: he was like there was a picture of him that
Speaker 3: went viral of him choking a girl, and then he
Speaker 3: got like I guess I think he got banned from
Speaker 3: like thirty different countries for that because he was an
Speaker 3: Australian sense when he did that, yeah, sense, But I
Speaker 3: mean in his defense, like.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's get let's let's let's let's get back to
Speaker 1: your life. Let's get back to your life, right, But.
Speaker 3: I mean, like I just believe his story, and you know,
Speaker 3: because like it's not like he was going around strangling women.
Speaker 3: It was just he just did something that I was
Speaker 3: just like stupid, you know. He just kind of like,
Speaker 3: let's let's let's get back, let's apologize and stuff.
Speaker 1: Okay, so anyway you okay, okay, who'd you call?
Speaker 3: The pickup artist community kind of like fell apart, and
Speaker 3: then COVID happened. I moved back to Michigan, where I'm
Speaker 3: originally from, and then I was like, I don't want
Speaker 3: to be a pick up coach anymore because it's actually
Speaker 3: ironically kind of hard to be dating when you're a
Speaker 3: pick up coach, because every girl that you date is
Speaker 3: going to be like, uh, They're always going to be
Speaker 3: like questioning, like you know him, yeah, oh wait.
Speaker 1: What Like they're going to be questioned like if you're
Speaker 1: like manipulating them in some way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like well not manipulating them, like well, every like
Speaker 3: if you get in an argument, every girl is going
Speaker 3: to be like, well, why don't you go pick up
Speaker 3: some other girl then you don't need me type of stuff,
Speaker 3: or they would be or uh, they would just like
Speaker 3: insecure thinking that like I've never cheated on anyone, but
Speaker 3: it would always be a thing if I'm out with
Speaker 3: a student that like, oh, you're out teaching other guys
Speaker 3: how to pick up women, so you have to go
Speaker 3: pick up women. So it's just like, no, that's not
Speaker 3: how it works. I'm just it is there with them.
Speaker 1: It is an unquestionably tough sell to anyone who does
Speaker 1: not like you know, there is a certain kind of
Speaker 1: a certain kind of kind of person has to be,
Speaker 1: you know, on board, and it's definitely not going to
Speaker 1: be every kind of person.
Speaker 3: So I was mostly looming on the whole, like the
Speaker 3: nightclub in strip club promoting, like just selling going to
Speaker 3: the club was a better profession than being a pickup coach.
Speaker 1: Okay, so uh you switched from doing this pickup coaching
Speaker 1: to coaching musicians who were having trouble with like their
Speaker 1: confidence the business side of things. Yeah okay, yeah, and
Speaker 1: then how did your I'm ready to talk about how
Speaker 1: your phone got hacked. I'm very curious.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm very eager to talk about it. I've been
Speaker 3: trying to get hold of you for months now, like
Speaker 3: on and off.
Speaker 1: Your phone has been hacked. It's been hard.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well yeah, right, you're telling me so, uh I
Speaker 3: got yeah, So I was just you know, doing my
Speaker 3: you know three for free you know business plan, calling
Speaker 3: around and I had like a list of people and
Speaker 3: talk to this one individual. I don't know what kind
Speaker 3: of accent he had, but like I still remember his
Speaker 3: voice because I hear it almost every day. It's so true.
Speaker 3: It's it's so traumatic to me that since I had
Speaker 3: this conversation with this guy, it echoes in my head
Speaker 3: like every day, and it's just like, uh, we start
Speaker 3: talking and he's like, well, if I'm going to hire you,
Speaker 3: I need to know who I need to know you
Speaker 3: know about you. So I started telling him about me,
Speaker 3: about how was a nightclub promoter as promoting strip clips.
Speaker 3: I worked at you know, haksan Omnia, Access One, Oak Bank, Yeah,
Speaker 3: Hustlers Club, you know all those places. I'm like, but
Speaker 3: I'm not one to really brag. It's just just look
Speaker 3: on my social media and then you'll just see for yourself. Right,
Speaker 3: That's just I'm about that life, okay. And and then
Speaker 3: we got into we ended up getting into an argument
Speaker 3: about religion and because I'm an atheist, and apparently that
Speaker 3: struck a chord with him because he was I think
Speaker 3: he was a judeo Christian or or some sort of
Speaker 3: Christian right, And he started like she was, I don't
Speaker 3: like to argue about religion. I just like to pretty
Speaker 3: much stand my ground, like I'm people look down at
Speaker 3: atheists all the time.
Speaker 1: Okay, how how how did your phone get hacked? Right?
Speaker 3: So, like we started arguing about like religion, and then
Speaker 3: you know, at the end of the conversation, he said, I,
Speaker 3: by the way, I've been recording all like he tried
Speaker 3: to sell me on this program to because I was
Speaker 3: trying to sell to him. He's trying to sell to me.
Speaker 3: The program is to go into other people's phones. All
Speaker 3: you need is their phone number and what type of
Speaker 3: phone that they have. So if they an Android, an
Speaker 3: Android or an Apple, it doesn't matter. As long as
Speaker 3: they have their phone number and what type of phone
Speaker 3: that they have, you can just go into their phone
Speaker 3: and just go into all their accounts, look at whatever.
Speaker 3: You don't want that, I'm like, no, yeah, it's possible.
Speaker 3: And I was like, I don't want that. I respect
Speaker 3: people's privacy.
Speaker 1: Wait, hold on, hold on, I'm so okay. First of all,
Speaker 1: first of all, there's no way that that's a real thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's Second of a well known at this point.
Speaker 3: There's it's called Pegasus. I don't know if that's the
Speaker 3: exact program he was trying to sell to me, but
Speaker 3: there's there's one out there that's called Pegasus.
Speaker 1: Pegasus and they can go into anyone's phone just using
Speaker 1: their phone number, of phone or not. Here we go.
Speaker 1: Oh holy shit. Pegasus is spyware developed by the Israeli
Speaker 1: cyber arms company NSO Group. What the fuck? Oh this
Speaker 1: is real.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I didn't want that stuff because I was like,
Speaker 3: it's only a matter of time if I would not
Speaker 3: only do I respect people's privacy, but I it would
Speaker 3: only be a matter of time before I get caught
Speaker 3: with it. You know, even if I did accept that,
Speaker 3: and not that I even had the money at the
Speaker 3: time to like buy that from him.
Speaker 1: This is crazy. Oh fuck, so this guy fucking tried. Wait,
Speaker 1: so this guy tried to sell you this pegasust crazy phone.
Speaker 3: I believe that the person even has it.
Speaker 1: And then he pegasists you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he said he was going to keep me in
Speaker 3: the in his circle because he said when he's bored,
Speaker 3: he likes to just watch other people. And he told
Speaker 3: me that he likes to watch you know, politicians poop
Speaker 3: on the toilet when they accidentally pull up their camera app.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what the fuck?
Speaker 3: And he said that he could just listen in to
Speaker 3: the insider trading that they do, and he said, I
Speaker 3: could make so much more money. And I'm like, I
Speaker 3: don't know, dude, I'm good. I don't sounds like a
Speaker 3: superpower that I don't want.
Speaker 1: How did you? How did you? How did you find
Speaker 1: this guy?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 3: So I was talking to because like I was, I
Speaker 3: hired like my own coach for myself, uh Tony Robbins company.
Speaker 3: Uh and like they just Tony Robbins's coach, like uh,
Speaker 3: like they had their own coaching program that I went
Speaker 3: through and she gave me like a list of names
Speaker 3: to call.
Speaker 1: Well this kind of sounds like a pyramid scheme, but
Speaker 1: also before that, life coaching itself.
Speaker 3: Yeah I don't. Yeah, I believe that life coaching itself
Speaker 3: can sometimes be a pyramid scam.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I got out of that. Yeah what exactly
Speaker 1: what were you trying to get a coach for?
Speaker 3: Just like for because I was used to marketing nightclubs
Speaker 3: and strip clubs.
Speaker 1: I wanted to, Oh you needed you needed to coach
Speaker 1: for myself? You needed to. Oh okay, see you. No, no,
Speaker 1: it's funny. I have actually I had no do. I
Speaker 1: have seen so many like Facebook ads for this. They
Speaker 1: are hilarious. That's like, oh, I.
Speaker 3: Can get to that too, the whole Actually, you got
Speaker 3: to make twenty thousand a month type of people to
Speaker 3: get rid.
Speaker 1: Of, like the Facebook ads that are like hire a
Speaker 1: coach to learn how to get people to hire a coach.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I'm actually in the middle of editing a
Speaker 3: documentary called Coaches or Quacks that targets that exact thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, here's the thing, honestly what it's about. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you kinda. I mean.
Speaker 3: I am out of coach anymore. Like, I actually refunded
Speaker 3: everybody that paid me money. I refunded everybody because I
Speaker 3: realized how much of a scam that let that life
Speaker 3: coaching and marketing coaches and business coaches are. I refunded everybody,
Speaker 3: and I started doing a documentary on it.
Speaker 1: Well you coach everybody? Wait, okay, hello, yeah you so
Speaker 1: you refunded everybody. I mean you've you refunded everybody that
Speaker 1: you and.
Speaker 3: I started doing it for free.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you refunded everybody that you were like a
Speaker 1: dating coach for or like any kind of coach.
Speaker 3: No, because like dating coaching is, like you know, it's
Speaker 3: not like what you said, like a pyramid scam.
Speaker 2: Like for.
Speaker 3: It's not like you pay a coach. Make it coaching
Speaker 3: coaches to coach coaches to coach coaches.
Speaker 1: Right, okay you.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's what marketing coaches and business coaches is. And
Speaker 3: I was like, oh when I realized that, nah, I'm
Speaker 3: I'm not about that. So I refunded everybody, and then
Speaker 3: I made a documentary where I started filming a documentary
Speaker 3: and I got really deep into like, you know, how
Speaker 3: unqualified that of what life coaches are. And I got
Speaker 3: life coaches at you know, people that work at Tony
Speaker 3: Robbinson's company trying to trying to sell to me using
Speaker 3: unsubstantiated income claims, which is itself illegal by the FTC.
Speaker 3: And Tony Robbins can get sued once his documentary drops,
Speaker 3: and not not just him, but other people too, because
Speaker 3: there's life coaches out there that they'll just tell you
Speaker 3: anything like oh, I spent over a million dollars on
Speaker 3: my own coaching, and now I'm going to show you
Speaker 3: how to do it, and you'll be rich just like me.
Speaker 3: And then it's like it's the never ending cycle. I'll
Speaker 3: give you an example. I was talking to this one
Speaker 3: guy who didn't realize that he was a victim, and
Speaker 3: he spent twelve thousand dollars on coaching, and I broke
Speaker 3: the news to him that the person that he bought
Speaker 3: from was scamming him. And he's like he was trying,
Speaker 3: and he broke down and he said, I'm going to
Speaker 3: look into this. And he was in denial, right, And
Speaker 3: I said.
Speaker 1: But he's, OK, can I can? I can?
Speaker 3: I see you?
Speaker 2: Can?
Speaker 1: I say, you're saying, you're saying that the guy that
Speaker 1: he spent twelve thousand dollars on is scamming him. But yeah,
Speaker 1: but the question is right, but like what's a scam?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Because if you because there's the if stiff because if
Speaker 1: a coach, if a guy, if you go on if
Speaker 1: you're on Facebook, this is what I was going to
Speaker 1: say originally. If you're on Facebook, right and you see
Speaker 1: an ad and someone says, I'm going to coach you
Speaker 1: how to get people. I'm going to coach you how
Speaker 1: to coach people to get them to coach people, and
Speaker 1: so and so and then you pay someone and then
Speaker 1: you pay someone two thousand dollars or whatever it is
Speaker 1: to to teach you how to do it, and then
Speaker 1: they do it. But that's all. But yes, it's a
Speaker 1: pyramid scheme. But like, were you really scammed or did
Speaker 1: you just but I mean, what's the scam here?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Like? Like that's the like you bought you you It's
Speaker 1: like if somebody, if somebody says to you, hey, I'll
Speaker 1: sell you this this uh piece of dirt for three
Speaker 1: thousand dollars and then you buy it. Were you were
Speaker 1: you scammed or did you just like spend money stupidly?
Speaker 3: Right? A great question. It's it comes down to straight
Speaker 3: up just like they say, you know, I'm going to
Speaker 3: show you how to make forty thousand dollars, that itself,
Speaker 3: according to the FTC, is an unsubstantiated income claim.
Speaker 1: You cannot sure that makes sense? That makes sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you cannot say this product will help you lose
Speaker 3: ten pounds. You cannot say this product will you know,
Speaker 3: it's unsubstantiated, it can't be proven. You can't guarantee results,
Speaker 3: even if they say I guarantee it or you get
Speaker 3: your money back. That's just trying for themselves to get
Speaker 3: a cop out, but that don't work with the FDC,
Speaker 3: and it won't work legally, and most of those people
Speaker 3: they go broke and they can't pay you back. So specifically,
Speaker 3: the scams that I was looking into was you go
Speaker 3: on in an interview with people.
Speaker 1: Like uh.
Speaker 3: For them to join their program, and then they show
Speaker 3: you their Stripe dashboard. So Stripe is a process of
Speaker 3: payment processing, and it'll say like how much money they
Speaker 3: made in the month, right, And then there's this one
Speaker 3: person the name was Brandon Forbes, showed two hundred and
Speaker 3: seven thousand dollars a month that he was making. And
Speaker 3: then that's the point where you're like, oh, I could
Speaker 3: learn from this guy, right, and it's only going to
Speaker 3: cost like two to five thousand dollars? Are you kidding me?
Speaker 3: Of course you want if you see that stripe dashboard,
Speaker 3: you see two hundred and seven thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: Right now, I see, I see I see your I
Speaker 1: see your I see your argument that it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: if you're if you're backing up your ship with unsubstantiated claims,
Speaker 1: then it is like, yes.
Speaker 3: You go to you go to. What they won't show
Speaker 3: you is the individual transactions. So they just show you
Speaker 3: the like the graph that spikes up of how much
Speaker 3: money they made. But if you look at their individual
Speaker 3: like their individual transactions, most of them are denied or
Speaker 3: they're failed, and that counts towards their gross income for
Speaker 3: the months. M hm. And but that's not how much
Speaker 3: they make.
Speaker 1: Okay. So a guy, okay, so hold okay, so you
Speaker 1: had a scammy. Okay, so you had a scammy. I'm
Speaker 1: going to coach you to coach other coaches person and
Speaker 1: and then that person somehow connected you to this random
Speaker 1: guy who you called trying to get him to sign
Speaker 1: up for you being a coach. And then that person
Speaker 1: was trying to get you to buy this Israeli spyware
Speaker 1: to hack another people's phones, and then you said no,
Speaker 1: and then he used the spyware against you. And now
Speaker 1: you put it that way, it is that that's the story, correct.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's that's the story.
Speaker 1: Okay, so what so what? But so so is he
Speaker 1: like he's listened to this right now, he's getting he's
Speaker 1: he's on the Patreon, he's getting the podcast early.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, so h uh, it's at first I didn't
Speaker 3: notice anything. I called his bluff and he said, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna put you in the loop. I'm gonna like he
Speaker 3: said that he has his own like group of people
Speaker 3: that he likes to just check in on every once
Speaker 3: in a while. Okay, And he said, I recorded this conversation,
Speaker 3: and I want you to do what I say or
Speaker 3: else I'm gonna take your voice and splice it up
Speaker 3: in the little pit. The bits and pieces make you
Speaker 3: sound like a very terrible person. And I can just
Speaker 3: send a little audio clips to random people whatever.
Speaker 1: I mean, people can do that with your voice. I mean,
Speaker 1: anyone listening to this can do that with AI.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And not that they should.
Speaker 3: Not that they should please don't do that.
Speaker 1: I mean, shit, they could do that. There's enough.
Speaker 3: But if we do, I didn't say it.
Speaker 1: I mean I've recorded five hundred I mean I've recorded
Speaker 1: five hundred plus hours of podcasts. I've said enough words
Speaker 1: in this podcast to give people like, you know, there's
Speaker 1: a lot, there's a lot of AI generated crap you
Speaker 1: could do with the library of my podcast. I mean, whatever,
Speaker 1: if it should be, but anyway, okay, So he says that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and uh, and then then I started noticing more
Speaker 3: glitches on my phone, and I noticed my specifically, I
Speaker 3: noticed my nudes were deleted on my phone. I guess
Speaker 3: he didn't like what you were saying. But like even
Speaker 3: my locked folder in my phone it was gone, you know,
Speaker 3: the one that you need to password for, right that
Speaker 3: like all all Android phones have. And yeah, and I
Speaker 3: it was maybe about a year later I started noticing that,
Speaker 3: like my I had a Google Phone of Google Pixel
Speaker 3: at the time, and it was just like like really
Speaker 3: going crazy, man, I don't know. It was just like
Speaker 3: my whole phone was just like flickering, like pretty much
Speaker 3: like a brand new phone. It was only like a
Speaker 3: year old. I never dropped. I never dropped it or anything.
Speaker 3: And just like my friend was like, oh, switching an iPhone,
Speaker 3: so like I have my whole life on like my
Speaker 3: phone all of the pictures from like when smartphones just
Speaker 3: first came out basically, so I uploaded them to my
Speaker 3: Google drive. I switched to an Apple and still, like
Speaker 3: my I had the I phoned fifteen pro Max at
Speaker 3: the time, and that was going crazy too. It was
Speaker 3: like it was just like turn on and turn off.
Speaker 1: And so this guy was hardcore. This guy was hardcore pegasustic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: did he did he So did he come back to
Speaker 1: you with any like weird like jigsaw messages of like
Speaker 1: you need to do this or else I'll delete more.
Speaker 3: A bunch of text message you sent out to my
Speaker 3: friends whoa off of my phone number. And then I've
Speaker 3: even had friends contact me and I and I text them,
Speaker 3: uh And I was like, yo, would you say that
Speaker 3: for and he was and he was like, I I
Speaker 3: literally I never said that. I did not say that.
Speaker 2: Damn.
Speaker 1: So this guy's really fucking me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's like ruining relationships. I lost my girlfriend
Speaker 3: at the time because like she just couldn't deal with
Speaker 3: the drama.
Speaker 1: She could deal with the drama of you in my life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, of just like in my business was just like
Speaker 3: which is what the ship? Not because the like coaching thing,
Speaker 3: but because like it was just every day of just
Speaker 3: like changing emails. I changed my phone number like three times.
Speaker 3: I changed phones like I got a new phone, like
Speaker 3: kept on returning them while like doing it in a
Speaker 3: specific way where I can't be hacked. I called a Verizon,
Speaker 3: I changed my modem and my router. My I got
Speaker 3: like three different laptops. I think it's like four different laptops.
Speaker 3: And not pone was working.
Speaker 2: It was just like.
Speaker 3: My like my laptop screen was like flickering, and then
Speaker 3: like I would have windows that would pull up and
Speaker 3: close out. And then when I talked to the people
Speaker 3: at Microcenter, which is kind of like a best buy
Speaker 3: in the Midwest, they were like, oh, you have some
Speaker 3: spyware on your on your laptop. I'm like, wait, what,
Speaker 3: Like yeah, someone is like remotely sounds like someone's remotely
Speaker 3: hacking you. I never told them anything of what I
Speaker 3: of what I just told you. They were just saying
Speaker 3: that those are the symptoms. So my podcast Microphone was
Speaker 3: cutting on, like how did this person like listening to.
Speaker 1: How did this person get the spyware on your thing?
Speaker 3: Well, he had my phone number, and he knew what
Speaker 3: kind of phone I had. I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Can I like, now I'm working, is he gonna is
Speaker 1: he gonna hack my Gecko phone?
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't. I don't know, because it only
Speaker 3: just not as sporadic. Okay, hey the contagious.
Speaker 1: Now now I have Now I now there's there's documented
Speaker 1: evidence on this podcast that I.
Speaker 3: Well, don't come out. Don't don't sue me over this,
Speaker 3: because I don't have any money.
Speaker 1: Dude, why have you been Okay? We sort of the
Speaker 1: lawyer has been saying.
Speaker 3: So in a second, so like it was like last
Speaker 3: uh last year. On two different occasions, I was talking
Speaker 3: to my friend. This is how I knew that he
Speaker 3: was listening to my like phone conversation. I was talking
Speaker 3: to my friend just casually because I'm a truck driver
Speaker 3: now and we were both hands free, Like he was
Speaker 3: talking on his through his truck, and I was I
Speaker 3: have a headset that when I'm driving, I can talk
Speaker 3: to people. And in the middle of his sentence, we
Speaker 3: both heard this phone call is being recorded and I
Speaker 3: and he was like, wait, what are you recording me?
Speaker 3: I'm like no, and I'm like, oh my gosh, he's
Speaker 3: still listening to me. He's still bugging me.
Speaker 2: What.
Speaker 1: I really hope you're telling me the truth and you're not,
Speaker 1: just like.
Speaker 3: I wish man, no man. I even on my Instagram
Speaker 3: from like a couple of years ago, I have a
Speaker 3: picture of my phone from my camera app, Like I
Speaker 3: had my camera app. I was actually filming my documentary
Speaker 3: and I was setting up my tripod and my phone
Speaker 3: took a picture of took a picture of me if
Speaker 3: you want, I can even send you to you don't
Speaker 3: I don't, Actually, I don't want to.
Speaker 1: I want to have as little amount of technological interaction
Speaker 1: with you as humanly possible.
Speaker 3: Actually, So, when I was putting in my because I
Speaker 3: use my phone as a mirror sometimes in my truck,
Speaker 3: I was putting in my contacts the day before Thanksgiving
Speaker 3: last year, I was taking my contacts out, and my
Speaker 3: phone took a picture of me. And I have all
Speaker 3: those settings turned off where it's like if you smile
Speaker 3: or if you say smile, or if you have your hand.
Speaker 3: I have all those settings turned off because I'm so, like,
Speaker 3: so paranoid at this point. My phone took a picture
Speaker 3: of me and caught me off guard. And then I'm
Speaker 3: just like staring at my camera, not making it. I'm
Speaker 3: not saying anything or doing anything. I'm just staring at
Speaker 3: my my my phone, and it just takes another picture
Speaker 3: of me, a second photo right after another.
Speaker 1: So like, so, what did the lawyers, What did the
Speaker 1: lawyers say? Do they say anything?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it said.
Speaker 3: That they said because I talked to net year next
Speaker 3: year said to talk to the FBI. Lawyers said, to
Speaker 3: talk to the FBI. And they can scrape my phone
Speaker 3: see my metadata and then maybe I can use that
Speaker 3: to do something, either to go after Google or find
Speaker 3: out who is doing this to me?
Speaker 1: And so do you contact the FBI?
Speaker 3: Not yet, I'm going to do that in a couple
Speaker 3: of days.
Speaker 1: How did this guy get Because I'm on the road.
Speaker 1: This is crazy. I'm like on the Wikipedia page of
Speaker 1: this shit. This is crazy. This so this shit exists,
Speaker 1: you can just like, yet's get how did this guy
Speaker 1: get this? It seems like it's like a government technology.
Speaker 3: I don't know if he's specifically Pegasus or maybe the
Speaker 3: guy worked at Google for all I know, or like Verizon,
Speaker 3: because like if if you have a problem with your phone,
Speaker 3: because I've looked into this for the last couple of
Speaker 3: for I guess the last year or so, like, if
Speaker 3: you have a problem with your phone, you can call
Speaker 3: up like AT and T or Verizon or whatever and
Speaker 3: they can just remotely go into your phone. So like
Speaker 3: someone rogue at Breisen or AT and T could possibly
Speaker 3: do that, you know, and all you'd have to do
Speaker 3: is just send them a link and then they click
Speaker 3: on the like blue text and then they're in your phone.
Speaker 1: Whoa damn do you're making I'm looking through this Wikipedia page. I'
Speaker 1: about to put on my fucking timfoil hat. This is
Speaker 1: this is uh yeah, you know what, man, I gotta
Speaker 1: I just I just miss. I just miss so deeply,
Speaker 1: like what life was like before I knew anything, No,
Speaker 1: just before he knew about anything, you know, like when
Speaker 1: I was just a Remember being a kid. I remember
Speaker 1: like being outside, you know, used a kid. You're riding
Speaker 1: a bike. You're not thinking about fucking governments using high
Speaker 1: powered spyware to you know, you don't care. You don't
Speaker 1: even care about like the greater whatever. You just want
Speaker 1: to look at.
Speaker 3: Like the doomsday news that's going on every day.
Speaker 1: Listen, man, I hope the FBI helped so you get
Speaker 1: your get your nudes back?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, but like here's another thing, man, Do
Speaker 3: I really want the FED going through my phone?
Speaker 1: Too?
Speaker 3: You know, I don't have anything to hide, But I
Speaker 3: mean do I need them to be like, oh well
Speaker 3: look at this guy? All right? Yeah, well we'll just
Speaker 3: delete this stuff and then whatever, you know, let.
Speaker 1: The fan I don't I mean, like I don't know
Speaker 1: if if you I mean, well, that's for you to decide.
Speaker 1: You're like do I want this random weird guy looking
Speaker 1: through my phone or or the FEDS. You know, you
Speaker 1: don't want to either to look at your phone. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like it's kind of like saying like, actually,
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's like this at all, but
Speaker 1: go ahead. It's like, would I rather get like, you know,
Speaker 1: like have a stranger put their hand up my ass,
Speaker 1: or like a TSA agent. You know, that's a good
Speaker 1: way to say neither. Neither is like enjoyable, but I'd
Speaker 1: rather it be the person who.
Speaker 3: Is trained to do so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, trains is is part of an institution that I guess, Yeah,
Speaker 1: part of an institution that I guess we have some
Speaker 1: form of trust in still, but I won't discuss that
Speaker 1: because this is really that kind of you know, it's
Speaker 1: not really that kind of podcast. I'm not really in
Speaker 1: a Gecko Wars kind of a kind of a thing.
Speaker 3: I get it.
Speaker 1: What what's your name again, man, Drew? Drew? It's been
Speaker 1: interesting talking to you, Drew. I appreciate, uh you telling
Speaker 1: me about all this stuff, although it's gonna be harder
Speaker 1: to sleep at night.
Speaker 3: How do you think I feel for the last yeah,
Speaker 3: two years?
Speaker 1: And hey, when you're.
Speaker 3: Talking to when I'm talking to my best friend about
Speaker 3: just you know whatever, and then you hear this phone
Speaker 3: call is being recorded.
Speaker 1: I was I really it would maybe laugh so hard
Speaker 1: I heard that right now?
Speaker 3: Oh maybe maybe's I'm yeah.
Speaker 1: Movies on break? Hey, Hey, you know what, Okay, before
Speaker 1: we go, listen, I'm gonna speak directly to the person
Speaker 1: who is hacking. I mean, this is a public conversation,
Speaker 1: so whatever, but uh, you know, I'm gonna speak directly
Speaker 1: the person who's hacking Drew's phone. And I'm gonna say this.
Speaker 1: I think using government spy where on someone's phone is mean,
Speaker 1: and it's bullying them, and it's and it's mean. He
Speaker 1: shouldn't do it. It's my official stance.
Speaker 3: Get them gat.
Speaker 1: Is there anything else you want to say to the
Speaker 1: people of the computer before we go?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think nothing in life has any meaning except
Speaker 3: for the meaning that you give it.
Speaker 1: Swag out, Thank you, Drew, Thank you. Never goes on
Speaker 1: the line taking your phone calls every night. Never Repink
Speaker 1: goes to his eye. He's teaching you cloud your life,
Speaker 1: but he's not ready. An expert