1 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 2: I'm Annie Reese, an unlearned vocal bum and today we 3 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 2: have an episode for you about august Escoffier. 4 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: Yes, another biography and deliciousness. Yes. Was there any particular 5 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: reason this was on your mind? 6 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 2: Again, I was just feeling real ambitious towards the end 7 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 2: of last year and I was planning out some episodes 8 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 2: and I was trying, we hadn't done a biography episode 9 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 2: in a minute, and I was like, who who have 10 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 2: I been thinking about? Who have I been putting off 11 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 2: talking about? And Escaffie was kind on top of the list. 12 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: It is indeed very ambitious. He was very ambitious. This 13 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: episode is very ambitious. A lot of people have a 14 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: lot to say about this person, and we have talked 15 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: about him before in several episodes. I would say you 16 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: could see our episode on French cuisine specifically, I believe 17 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: we talked about him Gelatine. 18 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, related Canning maybe or or the can opener I 19 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 2: suppose is our big episode Canning? 20 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, an open. 21 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,960 Speaker 2: Still still struggle, still traumatized. 22 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: Yes, you can also see our past biography episodes, but yeah, 23 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,839 Speaker 1: this one is a lot and very fun, it goes places, 24 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: it does, it does. But I suppose that brings us 25 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: to our question. No, I suppose, so Scoffier, what or 26 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: who is it? Uh? 27 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 2: Well, and forgive my French y'all George Auguste Escer, Sure, 28 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 2: let's well, let's say that great. He was a chef, 29 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 2: restauranteur and writer from France who came up in the 30 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 2: late eighteen hundreds and really changed the way that restaurants work, 31 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 2: from the experience of dining to kitchen management, and furthermore 32 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 2: popularized French cuisine as an international standard of luxury. He 33 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 2: was running some of the most influential high end kitchens 34 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,919 Speaker 2: of the turn of the century, and he made them hierarchical, efficient, 35 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 2: clean and organized. He was just like the right person 36 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 2: at the right places at the right time to change 37 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 2: the commercial culinary world and threw a trickle down effect 38 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,359 Speaker 2: change the way that people eat, or perhaps the way 39 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 2: that people aspire to eat in Europe and the rest 40 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,519 Speaker 2: of the West. He was so passionate about good food, 41 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 2: and for as much as he was a shellman, he 42 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 2: was also meticulously practical and seemed to really want everyone 43 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 2: to eat well. He also inspired a lot of loyalty 44 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 2: in his kitchen staffs because he was firm, but calm 45 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 2: and and really took care of his people. He is 46 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 2: the grandfather of fine dining. It's it's like if you've 47 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 2: if you've ever been frustrated going to a nice restaurant 48 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 2: and having no idea how to pronounce half the many 49 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 2: because you don't speak French. 50 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: It's his fault. I feel like this is coming from 51 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: a personal place, Laura. 52 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 2: I'm always like, I know what that is, but I 53 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 2: know I'm gonna say it's wrong and it's going to 54 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 2: be embarrassing. Oh jeez, you. 55 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: Know half the dining experience is being embarrassed. I don't 56 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: think that should be the case. Yeah, okay, well what 57 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: about the nutrition? And don't eat dead people. 58 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 2: Or I mean, I guess, don't eat living peoplener. You know, 59 00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 2: I can't tell you what to. 60 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: Do, interesting, Lauren, I shall file that away for later thought. Goodness. Okay, 61 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: so we don't have too many numbers for you, but 62 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: I have to say when I first started researching this, 63 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: the first note I typed was how many societies can 64 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: there possibly be? Because there are so many organizations and 65 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: societies dedicated or inspired by. 66 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: A scoff named after Yeah, yes, it's a bunch, And 67 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 2: most of the Google results when you're just kind of 68 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 2: getting into it before you really start refining your search terms, 69 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 2: are about all of those organizations. And yes, yeah, I 70 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 2: love a good fun with search terms episode and this 71 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 2: was definitely one of those, indeed. But yeah, a couple 72 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 2: of numbers for you. Scoffier trained over to thousand chefs 73 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 2: during the course of his career, which was about sixty 74 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 2: ish sixty ish years. One of them wound up opening 75 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 2: a museum in the home where Escaffie was born, and 76 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 2: it serves as a as a history of the culinary 77 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 2: technologies of a Scaffie's time and also a research center 78 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 2: on the greater world of astronomy. It has a collection 79 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 2: of over three thousand menus from the eighteen twenties through today. 80 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: Who okay, that's pretty cool. Yeah, well we do have 81 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: quite a history for you. 82 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 2: Oh yes, oh absolutely, and we are going to get 83 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 2: into that as soon as we get back from a 84 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 2: quick break for a word from our sponsors. 85 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: Error back, thank you sponsor. 86 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, okay. 87 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: So Auguste Escaffier was born in eighteen forty six in 88 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: the Provence region of what's now. I don't know why 89 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: put what's never because that was kind of recent. But anyway, France, 90 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,239 Speaker 1: when he was twelve or thirteen, I saw a couple 91 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: different ages. He began apprenticing at a restaurant that his 92 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 1: uncle owned in nearby Nice. Over the next seven years 93 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: he really honed his skills and people took notice, and 94 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: he was taken on at the restaurant over at the 95 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: Patit Moulin Rouge in Paris. 96 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 2: He was their assistant roaster. Apparently assistant roaster. 97 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: Okay, yes again, you can see our episode on French cuisine. 98 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: But at this time, being a chef wasn't really seen 99 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: as anything to write home about. It wasn't necessarily respected. 100 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:44,719 Speaker 1: Whote cuisine didn't exist yet. Most people ate at home 101 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: unless they were traveling. There weren't the standards around the 102 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: industry yet. So it could be dirty, it could be chaotic, 103 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 1: it could be unorganized, often dangerous and very brutal places 104 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 1: to work in Escoffier was instrumental in changing that whole thing. 105 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: He was in part inspired to insert some organization in 106 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: his kitchens after briefly serving as an army chef. After 107 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: the start of the Franco Prussian War in eighteen seventy. 108 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: During this time, he learned about the importance of canning 109 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: in terms of preserving foods and keeping those foods fresh. 110 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: He started experimenting with different methods of canning with meats 111 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: and sauces, and innovated a way to store tomato sauce 112 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: so that it would stay fresh in champagne bottles. 113 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 2: This was when canning was still a relatively new technology. 114 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 2: It had only come about around eighteen ten. 115 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: Or so, right, and he also observed how effective military 116 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: organization was in terms of a kitchen of coordinating and 117 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: working together to get things done. So what he eventually 118 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: came up with is often called the brigade system. Yes, so, 119 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: once the war ended, Ascafier returned to the kitchen and 120 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: started to implement the things he observed during his time 121 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: with the military. Chefs were assigned roles, locations, responsibilities, and 122 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: answered to supervisors, people who ensured that all the pieces 123 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: were working together in harmony, and through this a Scaffier 124 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: came up with the titles and roles that we still 125 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: used today in a lot of places like Sioux Chefs 126 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: Saussier and chef de cuisine. Apparently He had very specific 127 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: rules that were meant to lower stress, including no yelling 128 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: and no alcohol. From a couple sources, I read a 129 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: lot of times people would just drink throughout So his 130 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: staff allegedly called him Papa, and he really fought for 131 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: their rights when it came to things like benefits. After 132 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: members of his staff died on the Titanic, he had 133 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: designed the menus for the Titanic. He campaigned for widows 134 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: and children of them to be taken care of. 135 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 2: So yes. By the mid eighteen seventy he was back 136 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 2: at the Petito mo La Rouge, and he also bought 137 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 2: a food company and opened a restaurant in the very 138 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 2: posh can. He left the Petite Molong Rouge to run 139 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 2: other kitchens around Paris in eighteen seventy eight, which is 140 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 2: also the year that he married Delphine Dafis. 141 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: Dafis I don't know Lauren well either way. The story 142 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 1: goes that he won his wife's hand in a game 143 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: of pool, and she was a poet, and she left 144 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: him after the birth of their third childs lots of drama, 145 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: I see, yes, yes, Well, after this he started collaborating 146 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 1: with the founder of the Ritz Carlton Hotels cesar Ritz. 147 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 2: Ritz was managing the Grand Hotel in Monte Carlo and 148 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,559 Speaker 2: hired Scaffie on in eighteen eighty four under the advice 149 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 2: of the head chef there. 150 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: In eighteen ninety, Ritz became the manager of London Savoy 151 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: Hotel and he named Scott the head chef of the kitchen. 152 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 2: The Savoy was and still is a kind of like 153 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 2: ridiculously luxury hotel. Both Ritz and Escoffier had worked in 154 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 2: other high end hotels around Europe, but the Savoy was 155 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 2: this brand new, like gleaming beacon of end of century modernity, 156 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 2: and they were brought there with salaries in the equivalent 157 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 2: of millions of dollars. Ritz's motto was the best is 158 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 2: not too good? 159 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: Well, yes, the Savoy. Perhaps because of that, add a 160 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: lot of high profile, famous patrons, and to build up 161 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: the profile of the hotel and his own, Escafaier started 162 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: coming up with his own dishes to make the hotel's 163 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: restaurant unique. According to popular lore, he created the Peach 164 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: Melba in honor of guest Nelly Melba, an opera singer. 165 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: I feel like we've talked about this story before. 166 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 2: I think so. 167 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was somehow in the Pavlovie. I 168 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: don't know, listeners. I feel like we've talked about it 169 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: before the story goes. He also came up with Cherry's 170 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: Jubilee for Queen Victoria's Jubilee, which is one of those 171 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: funny things I read where it's like, oh, okay, yeah, 172 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: and Dauphine Potatoes for the French Court of Dauphine. Yes. Yeah. 173 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 2: This was the kind of place where like, if you 174 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 2: had the money, old or new money, you could be 175 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 2: treated like royalty. Like want to throw a Roulette themed 176 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 2: dinner party for thirty of your closest friends for a 177 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 2: little under two grand ahead because you just want a 178 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 2: bunch of money playing Roulette and betting on red. Yeah, 179 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 2: they can do that for you. They draped a private 180 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 2: dining room in red. They put red shades on the lamps, 181 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 2: set the tables with giant bouquets of red geraniums, dressed 182 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 2: to the waiters and red ties and gloves, and put 183 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 2: red buttons on their shirts. The dinner menu included consumme 184 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 2: of red partridge and paprika jila and lamb with red 185 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:03,559 Speaker 2: bean puree. 186 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: Wow. 187 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I really like want to emphasize here that 188 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 2: this was a very new thing. You know, up until 189 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 2: this time, the only people who had access to this 190 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 2: kind of food were probably royalty. But the Industrial Revolution 191 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 2: was changing the way that money worked, and so for 192 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 2: the first time you had these like international celebrities and 193 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 2: moguls who who had the money, and what they wanted 194 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,839 Speaker 2: to do was kind of replicate the wild feasts of 195 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 2: medieval Europe. And people like Escafaier were such history nerds 196 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:50,839 Speaker 2: and and so excited to put on parties like this 197 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 2: at Rits as well. 198 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, that it was. 199 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 2: And both of them had come from from working class 200 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 2: families too, So it's I don't know, it's it's really 201 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 2: it was what a time. 202 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: To be alive. Yes, and we're going to make this 203 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: point throughout, but definitely left an impact Escoffier and his influence. 204 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: But we must mention both the Scaffier and Ritz were 205 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: fired from the Savoy on charges of extortion, and it 206 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 1: caught international attention. 207 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 2: It eventually caught international attention. It was so scandalous that 208 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 2: they kept it quiet. The hotel kept it quiet for 209 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 2: almost a century. Okay, in eighteen ninety seven, the hotel's 210 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 2: profits dropped by like forty percent. The kitchen was running 211 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:45,959 Speaker 2: at a loss despite being busier than it ever had been, 212 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,199 Speaker 2: and so the hotel ran an audit and turned up 213 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 2: around the equivalent of a million dollars in wine and 214 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 2: booze having been comped to guests, including some potential investors 215 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 2: in a new competitor to the Savoy that Ritz and 216 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 2: Escaffier were planning, London's Carlton Hotel. Furthermore, Escaffier had worked 217 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,359 Speaker 2: out an embezzlement scheme with some of the Savoy suppliers, 218 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 2: and he wound up making like the modern equivalent of 219 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 2: over two million dollars in commissions over the course of 220 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 2: about ten years. None of this came out publicly until 221 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 2: I guess an intern at the hotel came across signed 222 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 2: confessions from Ritz and Escoffier in nineteen eighty three. 223 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: Wow. 224 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 2: The intern was an anonymous informant who left the confessions 225 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 2: on the desk of this reporter working at The Observer, 226 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 2: And when the reporter wrote about it, he gave he 227 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 2: gave the informant the name Deep Palette. 228 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, why is this not a movie? 229 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 2: I absolutely want the movie about this. Apparently, apparently the 230 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 2: pair were forced to sign these confessions when they tried 231 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 2: to sue for unfair termination. 232 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: Wow wow what love it? Love it? 233 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 2: But yeah, basically that the pair got away with it, 234 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 2: like socially speaking, because the Savoy's board and shareholders were 235 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 2: so dang embarrassed that it had happened that they didn't 236 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 2: want anybody to know about it. Also, apparently Ritz had 237 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 2: dirt on the Prince of Wales and the Savoy didn't 238 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 2: want that coming out. Again, this was right around Victoria's 239 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 2: jubilee and they didn't want to like cause scandal for royalty. 240 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: Again, where's this movie telling you? It is very funny. 241 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: A lot of the sources you look up for Scaffie 242 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: don't mention this at all. 243 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 2: And the ones that do mention it are whooh, juicy juicy. 244 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 2: But yeah. Hotel management was in a tizzy over the 245 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 2: whole thing, Like they were afraid that the kitchen staff 246 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 2: were so loyal to a Scaffier that they would riot 247 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 2: when they learned that he had been fired, Like they 248 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 2: had police on hand to help keep the peace. A 249 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 2: bunch of the staff did wind up following a Scoffier 250 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 2: when he went. 251 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: Wow wow, Well from there, Scaffier continued to work with Ritz, 252 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: including at the Ritz Paris. In eighteen ninety nine, they 253 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: opened the Girlton Hotel in London. He continued to exert influence, 254 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: and not just in the kitchen but in the front 255 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: of house too, including the now common practice of ordering 256 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: a la carte because previously all the food items came 257 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: out at once, So this instituted a new thing where 258 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: the dishes started coming out as they were ordered, and 259 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: guests ordered off a menu. It's strange to think about 260 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: these things we take for granted so much these days, 261 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: but totally Yeah. Yeah, during lunch service he could serve 262 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: five hundred plates an hour. 263 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 2: I read, Yeah, he had a team of sixty cooks there. 264 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: I also read he lobbied to make it legal for 265 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: women to dine in public. I couldn't find too much 266 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: about it, but I would love to dig into that. Yeah, oh, 267 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 1: or at a later date. 268 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 2: Sure, sure, right, because the practice of women dining in 269 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 2: public was Yeah, it was certainly socially and sometimes legally 270 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 2: not allowed at. 271 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 1: This, especially in certain places. 272 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 2: Yeahah, yeah, but yeah. He was always looking to promote 273 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 2: French products, and at the Carlton he imported like French asparagus, 274 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 2: and duck and peaches and butter some forty five hundred 275 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 2: pounds a month. That's two thousand kilos of butter a month. WOA, 276 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 2: and tinned tomatoes. He hecking loved a tomato sauce. Legend 277 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 2: has it that he sort of tricked a ball room 278 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 2: of six hundred diners into eating frog's legs, which were 279 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 2: like not a popular protein in London, by calling them 280 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 2: nymph's legs. And apparently the aforementioned Prince of Wales was 281 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 2: kind of in on it because he really liked frog's legs. 282 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: I'm going to have to look up this Prince of 283 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:21,919 Speaker 1: Whales guy I going on. 284 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 2: I think I think the dirt was that he had 285 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 2: been having this affair and Ritz, as the hotel manager, 286 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 2: knew about it, and the reason that the Prince of 287 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 2: Wales followed them from the Savoy to the Carlton was 288 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,400 Speaker 2: that he didn't want to open himself up to blackmail 289 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 2: from Ritz Wow. 290 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 1: So maybe he was in on this nymph leg scheme 291 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,640 Speaker 1: because of blackmail. 292 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 2: I think I think it was. I don't know. I'm 293 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 2: not entirely speculations. All speculation here, I do, I do 294 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 2: want to say, speaking of speculation, We've read in like 295 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 2: one source that I'm not sure the quality of the 296 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 2: Discolfier refused to ever learn English, even though he was 297 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 2: working so much in London and later in the United States, 298 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 2: because he didn't want it to negatively influence his cooking. Yep, 299 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 2: he was like, if I start learning English, I'll start 300 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 2: to think like the English and I. 301 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: Cannot have that. 302 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 2: Yes, the most French thing I've ever heard of in 303 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 2: my life, and I love it. I also, from reading 304 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 2: about his work during this time, got the idea that 305 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 2: he was an absolute micromanager, Like he designed every menu, 306 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 2: oversaw every service, like racked the kitchen every night to 307 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:54,120 Speaker 2: take stock and prevent waste. And it is really difficult 308 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:59,360 Speaker 2: to express like exactly how posh and popular and influential 309 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 2: all this was Ritz and Escoffier. We're building a new 310 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 2: idea or ideal maybe of luxury and service in hospitality. 311 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was an all that Scaffaier helped innovate, 312 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: especially in that area. He was key in designing how 313 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 1: kitchens worked on twentieth century Transatlantic cruises. 314 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 2: He would apparently usually go on every new ship's first 315 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 2: voyage to make sure that the kitchens were up to standards, 316 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 2: So I guess it's lucky that he wasn't on the Titanic. 317 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: Cool yukes. He ran the kitchen on enormous ocean liner 318 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: designed for guest of Kaiser Wilhelm the second of Germany, 319 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: called the ss Imperator Imperator inheritor. I don't know, it's 320 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: probably very grand sounding. Well, speaking of Wilhelm apparently called 321 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: Escoffier the King of chefs and the Chef of kings, 322 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 1: and allegedly said of him, I am the Emperor of Germany, 323 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: but you are the Emperor of the chefs. 324 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 2: Wow. 325 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, Also, no big deal. He helped modernize the Five 326 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 1: mother sauces. We've definitely talked about this before, but briefly, 327 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: Escafier's predecessor, Antonin Karim had outlined four grand sauces of 328 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: French cuisine, and these were bechamel Espanol, belute, and Alamande. 329 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,160 Speaker 1: Escafier went on to drop the Alamant from this whole 330 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: thing since it was related to belote, and added tomato 331 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: sauce yes, and hollandais Yes. During World War One he 332 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 1: kept running kitchens and he was a prolific author as well. 333 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: He published the guide Coulonaire in nineteen oh three, the 334 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 1: Livre des Menux in nineteen twelve, a monthly chefs magazine 335 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: that ran from nineteen twelve to nineteen fourteen, and leis 336 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 1: Memoir Colonaire in nineteen nineteen and Laguide Culinaria in particular 337 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: was hugely influential. Of his alleged six hundred egg recipes, 338 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: it had two hundred and fifty six of them. In 339 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: my mind when I saw six hundred egg recipes, couldn't 340 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:19,199 Speaker 1: fab Yeah, couldn't do it. 341 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I've got four, So I'm like, yep, 342 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 2: oh wait, maybe five, Okay, anyway, but cool, cool, yeah, 343 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 2: And this is still considered an essential like Chef's cookbook today. 344 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 2: Also during the war, he organized aid for the families 345 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 2: of his cooks who were enlisted. 346 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:42,120 Speaker 1: Right. 347 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:46,679 Speaker 2: Yes, and he was the first chef to receive a 348 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 2: French Legion of Honor distinction in nineteen eighteen and was 349 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 2: promoted raised I'm not sure of the terminology. He was 350 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,439 Speaker 2: raised from a Knight in the Legion of Honor to 351 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 2: an officer in nineteen twenty eight. 352 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: He was a big proponent of several charitable causes. During 353 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: the eighteen nineties, he donated unserved food to the little 354 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: sisters of the poor. He ran all kinds of fundraisers, 355 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: including those centered around aiding retired chefs. In nineteen twenty eight, 356 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,199 Speaker 1: he helped found the World Association of Chef's Societies and 357 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: served as the first organization president. 358 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 2: He retired heavy Scare Quotes to Money Carlo in nineteen 359 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 2: twenty but Yeah, continued to travel for another ten years 360 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 2: or so to attend hotel openings, cooking competitions, and other events, 361 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 2: and he continued writing, aiming three cookbooks toward home cooks 362 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 2: of more modest means, which at that point in his. 363 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: Life he was. 364 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 2: Apparently he was really bad at managing money and never 365 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 2: really had that much towards towards the end of his life. 366 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 1: He died on February twelfth, nineteen thirty five, at the 367 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,679 Speaker 1: age of eighty eight, and his wife had died just 368 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 1: days prior, and the parent only just recently reunited. 369 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think she had been living in Monte Carlo 370 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 2: pretty much that whole time, and he, Yeah, he joined 371 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 2: her there when he retired. But yeah, it's it's a 372 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 2: it seems like an interesting story. A novelist recently wrote 373 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 2: a semi fictional romance about their last decade there together 374 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 2: called White Truffles in Winter. 375 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: Good name. Yeah, but Ascaffier's legacy does live on. A 376 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 1: fraternity of male chefs, restauranteurs and hotel owners formed in 377 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty six what they called Les Amise Descoffier Society, 378 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 1: which still exists. A sister society made of women formed 379 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty nine called Lais Dames des Amis Discoffier. 380 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: Seventy three they do Discoffier New York opened again. This 381 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: is something I would love to come back to because 382 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: kind of the history of at first, like there weren't 383 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: women that much in this industry, or if they were, 384 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: they weren't recognized and couldn't be in these things. And 385 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 1: so the steps of what separated these two groups is interesting. Yeah, y, yes, 386 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: but there's a lot of them now oh yeah, oh yeah. 387 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh and I and I and I wanted to 388 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 2: put in about the money situation. He apparently supported and 389 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 2: paid for the education of like a really large extended 390 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 2: family and of his and so so that was part 391 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 2: of why it wasn't just like oops, I was gambling 392 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 2: or something like that, but like it was more yeah, 393 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 2: like he was just giving a lot of money away 394 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 2: to people. 395 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean part of his legacy too. He was 396 00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: really invested in people being able to have lives in 397 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: this industry. Yeah yeah, and it is very It took 398 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: me aback how much he has had influence that last. 399 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 2: That. 400 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's just how I thought, 401 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:23,440 Speaker 1: like restaurants always were. 402 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it was basically created during his time. I 403 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 2: mean we've talked about this before in some of our 404 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 2: holiday related episodes about Thanksgiving and like Christmas dishes, but 405 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 2: a lot of our concept of traditional dining comes from 406 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,360 Speaker 2: this era and he was so influential during this era 407 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 2: that yep, that's just what it is. 408 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, And it kind of cracks me up how many 409 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: times when we'll travel together for savor otherwise and I 410 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: do my anything where I'm like, where do we go, 411 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: and it'll like a hotel will pop up and it 412 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: will be like this experience that we described and here essentially, 413 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: so I feel like that was also he had a 414 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: big hand in that. Oh yeah, and it's still around. 415 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. He was also a co director maybe of 416 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 2: the ritz Like Corporation around the time. 417 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: So yep, yep, you know this is a very selfish thing. 418 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: But one of my one of my regrets about the pandemic, Lauren, 419 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: is that I had a free room to the Ritz Carlton. 420 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: It's a long story as to how but I have 421 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: a free room and the pandemic comes in and I 422 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: lost it. But apparently I was going to get like 423 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: free drinks and free food and all stuff. I was 424 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: so excited. Well maybe one day. Ah well, I think 425 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: that's what we have to say about Escaffier for now. 426 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 2: I think it is we do. We would love to 427 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 2: hear from you if if you, I don't know how 428 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 2: many of y'all listeners are are in the industry, but 429 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 2: but but if you have any kind of experience with 430 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 2: the brigade style of kitchen management or or anything like that, 431 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 2: we would love to hear about it. And we do 432 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 2: have some listener mail already prepared for you. But first 433 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 2: we've got one more quick break for word from our sponsors. 434 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and 435 00:28:49,000 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: we're back with listeners sauce. Yeah, yeah, I didn't want 436 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: to shout at you. 437 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 2: Oh thank you. 438 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we try to make these nice. Yeah. Yes, 439 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: we were just having a conversation I'm sure we'll revisit 440 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: about shouting in kitchens. 441 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because a scaffier write, you know, like 442 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 2: like like meticulous, militaristic a little bit, but also quiet. 443 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: No shouting, Yeah yeah, I don't need to shout at 444 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: people unless you can't. They need to hear you, but 445 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: not like in anger. Sure no, anyway, all right, all right, 446 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: Barbie wrote, as always, your episode about special holiday food 447 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: marketing cracked me up. I don't buy those things, and 448 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: since I haven't shopped in a grocery store in three years, 449 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: I haven't seen them on the shelves. You asked about 450 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: holiday meal stories, and I remembered a favorite of mine. 451 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: I got married the year after my father died, and 452 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,959 Speaker 1: the first Thanksgiving I hosted with my mother, my husband, 453 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: and his two teenage children was important to me. I 454 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: wanted it to be a great occasion for all of 455 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: us in this blended family, so I asked each one 456 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 1: to tell me what they wanted most to be included 457 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: in the holiday meal. I wanted to include special foods 458 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: that my husband and his children treasured from the family 459 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: they had before me, and that they would be disappointed 460 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: to not find on the table. The answers included some 461 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: things I might not have included. Black olives to stick 462 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: on their fingers was the one that was new to me. 463 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: Sweet potatoes with marshmallows was one that was one that 464 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: one of them loved and didn't appeal to me at all. Finally, 465 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: I asked my mother, with whom I had celebrated Thanksgiving 466 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: for forty years. Her answer was, you have to have 467 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: a green vegetable, you have to have a yellow vegetable, 468 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: and you have to have a salad. I never did 469 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: find out what she really wanted, only what she thought 470 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: was obligatory. This year, my husband and I celebrated together 471 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: with no family or friends. To complicate things. Since we're 472 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: not eating in restaurants, our choices were takeout or cook 473 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: at home. Restaurant take out for Thanksgiving was full meals, 474 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: including a lot of food we don't like, so we 475 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: chose cooking at home. Our dinner was a twelve pound 476 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: roast turkey put in the oven early am and ready 477 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: to eat by noon. Pre made mashed potatoes, just put 478 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: them in the microwave. Homemade gravy. Dessert was bin in 479 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: Jerry's ice cream and luscious flavors. We had one meal 480 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: of turkey, mashed potatoes and gravy, one meal of leftovers, 481 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: one meal of turkey sandwiches, and turned everything else into 482 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: turkey soup with vegetables for the freezer for later. It 483 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: took a lot of years, but we finally figured out 484 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: how to make the holidays exactly what we want. May 485 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four be a great year for you? Oh, 486 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: I mean honestly, like, Okay, first of all, I do 487 00:31:55,160 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 1: love you asking what people want responses you aren't anticipating. 488 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, ay, that's so sweet and totally 489 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 2: totally understandable, Like of course, like like holidays can be 490 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 2: so like like stressful and it's all new and you're 491 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 2: trying to, you know, to to write to make it 492 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 2: so good. 493 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, like black alves to stick on fingers is excellent. 494 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: That is such a specific age. 495 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 2: That's an amazing teenage kid response. Yeah, I mean, but 496 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 2: also like like your your mother's equally cantankerous kind of 497 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 2: or like cantankris is the wrong word? 498 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: What am I looking for? 499 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 2: Like confounding? I yeah, just like it's green vege yellow 500 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 2: vege salad, which hats off. 501 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 1: To her because my usually my holiday traditions have one 502 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: they have like a potato based thing maybe, but one vegetable. 503 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: I would say, So, there you go. That's pretty good. 504 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: But yes, confusing for sure, but it's very nice. 505 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 2: Like I love that you've found you know, this is 506 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 2: what you do. That sounds great, that's what you want? Yeah, no, exactly, 507 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 2: no need, no need to muck it up with anything else. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 508 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 2: I love it. 509 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah. 510 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 2: No, Now now I just want mashed potatoes and gravy. 511 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 2: But I mean, I guess I usually want that, Okay, 512 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 2: Kate wrote, I'd been planning to write to you for 513 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 2: a while after listening to your Fanny Farmer episode. Then 514 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 2: yesterday I heard your call for non Western perspectives on 515 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 2: three meals a day in the listener mail at the 516 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 2: end of the Rosewater episode, which nudged me to actually 517 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 2: sit down and write. I'm Canadian and grew up with 518 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 2: the idea of three meals a day, a breakfast, lunch, 519 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 2: and supper, with the last meal of the day usually 520 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 2: being the heaviest, except when visiting grandparents for the weekend, 521 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 2: when we would have dinner at on Sunday before all 522 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 2: of the aunts, uncles, and cousins would drive home in 523 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 2: the afternoon. My thinking about meals shifted though, when I 524 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,719 Speaker 2: lived in Tanzania in East Africa for three years. A 525 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 2: heavy meal is eaten by Tanzanian families right before bedtime, 526 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 2: so when you wake up in the morning, you're still 527 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,399 Speaker 2: feeling full from the night before and not in need 528 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 2: of breakfast right away. This is a good thing, especially 529 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 2: if you're living in an area with no electricity or 530 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 2: running water. It takes a lot of energy to fetch water, 531 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 2: build a fire or light a charcoal stove, clean the 532 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 2: dishes from the night before, and boil water. Tea is 533 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,879 Speaker 2: often taken mid morning, consisting of strong tea with lots 534 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 2: of sugar and milk when available, along with some sort 535 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 2: of snack chop. Patti Mandazi never heard of that one. 536 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 2: It's deep fried bread dough. They add a roasted peanuts 537 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 2: or an egg, and then a heavy meal is eaten 538 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 2: in the early afternoon, like one to three pm to 539 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 2: keep you going until the bedtime meal. I tended to 540 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,279 Speaker 2: keep my North American eating habits of breakfast, lunch, and 541 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 2: dinner when I was at home, but when I was 542 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 2: visiting Tanzanian friends, I adapted to the Tanzanian meal cycle, 543 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 2: and I also learned that I was considered to be 544 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 2: a better hostess when I had Tanzanian house guests if 545 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,720 Speaker 2: I served a large meal mid afternoon and shifted supper 546 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 2: hour much closer to bedtime. In terms of Fanny Farmer, 547 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,280 Speaker 2: this is the cookbook in my family on my mother's side, 548 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,760 Speaker 2: and I loved learning more about it in your episode. 549 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,800 Speaker 2: I wasn't even aware of joy of cooking until I 550 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 2: was a fully fledged adult. My granddad always said that 551 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,760 Speaker 2: he liked Fanny Farmer because it assumed no kitchen knowledge, 552 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,320 Speaker 2: so if you needed to look up how to boil beans, 553 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 2: he could look it up in Fanny Farmer and she 554 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 2: would tell him. The first time I ever roasted a chicken, 555 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 2: I looked it up in Fanny Farmer, then called my 556 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 2: mother to confirm that Fanny Farmer was correct. The only stipulation, though, 557 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,320 Speaker 2: is that it has to be a pre nineteen seventy 558 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 2: nine edition, that is, before Marian Cunningham came on as editor. 559 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 2: Apparently some of the best recipes were left out of 560 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,360 Speaker 2: newer editions. Though since this is received wisdom from my elders, 561 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:57,840 Speaker 2: I couldn't tell you which recipes they were referring to. 562 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 2: Granddad loved second hand, and anytime he came across an 563 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 2: older addition of Fanny Farmer, he picked it up to 564 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,240 Speaker 2: give to one of his grandchildren. I have a nineteen 565 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,400 Speaker 2: sixty five Bantam paperback edition, now held together with an 566 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,799 Speaker 2: elastic band. I still referred to it a couple times 567 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 2: a year that I've roasted chicken, and I love owning 568 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 2: a cookbook that includes the following instructions. Modern markets sell 569 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,760 Speaker 2: poultry ready to cook, so that the old, an tedious 570 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 2: task of plucking and cleaning a bird is over for 571 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 2: most of us. However, the United States Department of Agriculture 572 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 2: and State Extension Services have bulletins describing the process and 573 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:33,919 Speaker 2: also telling how to cut up a bird for fricka 574 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 2: seeing or broiling. If all the feathers have not been removed, 575 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,760 Speaker 2: pull them out with tweezers or a small sharp knife, 576 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,800 Speaker 2: and burn off the fine hairs over the gas flame 577 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 2: or with burning paper. Though related to the previous topic, 578 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 2: I will say that getting a chicken from the chicken 579 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,279 Speaker 2: coop to the dinner table is one skill that I 580 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 2: acquired in Tanzania. Even if I don't have occasion to 581 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 2: practice it here in Canada. 582 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: Oh well, so much to say. I love I am 583 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: loving hearing about these different these alternatives to our typical 584 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: three meals a day that we talked about. I think 585 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 1: it's fascinating. 586 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, and this makes so much sense, right, 587 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:20,879 Speaker 2: you know, just like yeah, like like like breakfast, big 588 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 2: midday meal and then heavy dinner. That sounds terrific. 589 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:32,840 Speaker 1: Yes it does. Although I will say I recently have 590 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 1: been having a big lunch and I've noticed that it 591 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: tires me out. I wasn't anticipating, but it could be 592 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: because I'm new to it this. I just find this 593 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: so so interesting, So please listeners keep these coming. Hearing 594 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: about this and about kind of the foods that are 595 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: typical for these meals. Also, yes, all of the stuff 596 00:37:56,040 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 1: about cookbooks that you've written in is amazing. H I 597 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 1: love that. I you know, I'm almost on board with 598 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 1: your grandfather. I love a book. But it'll just be like, look, 599 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 1: I don't know anything, tell. 600 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 2: Me explain it to me like I'm five. Yeah, just 601 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 2: just just front to back, assume I know nothing and 602 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 2: let me know what's up. Yeah, totally totally, yes, right, 603 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 2: I didn't need to know the thing about chicken feathers 604 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 2: or the fine hairs. But because I am so completely 605 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 2: divorced from the reality of proteins. 606 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 1: But uh, true though, like that is part of the 607 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:51,879 Speaker 1: charm of reading a cookbook from before, like where we've 608 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 1: become so modernized. Yeah, yeah, industrialized it it is I 609 00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,760 Speaker 1: think I think I talked about it Enjoyed Cooking episode. 610 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 1: But my mom will just flip through and read cookbooks. 611 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,239 Speaker 1: Oh she's not necessarily looking for a recipe. If she 612 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,239 Speaker 1: finds one, then share, yes, but she's kind of just 613 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:09,800 Speaker 1: reading that. 614 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:12,359 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, I do that too. 615 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:12,879 Speaker 1: Yeah. 616 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 2: I'm setting up my new home and uh and kind 617 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 2: of figuring out where everything goes. And uh, one of 618 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,839 Speaker 2: my bookcases, like a kind of big one, the one 619 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 2: that used to live in producer Jerry's office in our 620 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 2: old offices, uh, wound up in my dining room and 621 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:38,439 Speaker 2: it is I'm not going to say, like like brimming over, 622 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:43,759 Speaker 2: but it's full up with my collection of cookbooks, which 623 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 2: is wild. I didn't I didn't know that I had 624 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 2: that many. 625 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: That is the thing about moving is you're like, oh, 626 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:58,279 Speaker 1: it puts things into a bit of perspective. Oh yeah, yeah, 627 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: that's fun. That's fun. I've actually been thinking about doing 628 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:13,359 Speaker 1: maybe a shorter episode, maybe not about just the kind 629 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 1: of those award winning recipes that we look back on 630 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,759 Speaker 1: now and are like, what is it talking about? But 631 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:21,760 Speaker 1: it totally makes sense when you put it in context 632 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 1: of the time and everything. But cookbooks and companies publishing 633 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: those cookbooks or publishing pamphlets or stuff or stuff like that. 634 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,359 Speaker 1: That was very a big part of that, and I'm 635 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,719 Speaker 1: really interested in it. So maybe maybe. 636 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:40,359 Speaker 2: Yes. 637 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 1: But in the meantime, thanks to both of these listeners 638 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:46,799 Speaker 1: for writing in. If you would like to write to us, 639 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,920 Speaker 1: you can our emails Hello at savorpod dot com. 640 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,840 Speaker 2: We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, 641 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 2: and Instagram. That's the other one at saver Pod, and 642 00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,720 Speaker 2: we do hope to hear from you. Save is production 643 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,320 Speaker 2: off I Heart Radio. Four more podcasts from iHeartRadio. You 644 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,640 Speaker 2: can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 645 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,279 Speaker 2: listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our 646 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 2: super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you 647 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:13,120 Speaker 2: for listening, and we hope that lots more good things 648 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:13,920 Speaker 2: are coming your way.