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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff

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Speaker 1: I've never told you a production of iHeartRadio, and it

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Speaker 1: is time for another edition of Female First, which means

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Speaker 1: we are once again joined by the wonderful, the magnificent,

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Speaker 1: the well traveled Eve. Welcome Eve. Thank you. What an introduction.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. I do get in my head about them,

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Speaker 1: but that's when it gets worse. So you just got

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Speaker 1: to go with the flow, you know, overthick things. It

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Speaker 1: feels like lifetime says We've seen you. I was thinking

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Speaker 1: about this today. So much has happened. We were catching

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Speaker 1: up before. So much has happened in all of our

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Speaker 1: lives since the last time we recorded. How are you?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm doing good today.

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Speaker 3: You know. I am like enjoying the crispy, cool weather.

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Speaker 3: I was out, I was outside of shorts and a

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Speaker 3: T shirt on earlier, and usually I'm not that kind

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Speaker 3: of person. So I'm like, am I becoming a fall person?

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Speaker 3: Because I usually think of myself as a spring and

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Speaker 3: summer person. But pretty soon I'll be headed into climates

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Speaker 3: that are a lot colder than the one that I'm

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Speaker 3: used to in the South. I'll probably run into some snow,

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Speaker 3: so I'm gonna see if I really am a fall.

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Speaker 1: Girly pretty soon.

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Speaker 3: This is this fall is a fall, this is light

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Speaker 3: fall light one, right, you know that we get in Atlanta,

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Speaker 3: so once I go farther north they hit fall full on,

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Speaker 3: then I'll see if I can make that determination for sure.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm feeling good. I'm feeling well rested and

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Speaker 3: also excited at the same time, which I feel like

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Speaker 3: is a good space to be in.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what about y'all? I feel better today. There's been

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Speaker 1: a lot of stress. I think everybody should still lot

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Speaker 1: of stress right now, and we have been really busy

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Speaker 1: if the listeners show, no, we've had a lot of

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Speaker 1: surprise things happen in the past few weeks. But I

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Speaker 1: woke up early today, and you know, when your life

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Speaker 1: is just in chaos and you can't, things just build up.

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Speaker 1: I like took out my trash, I broke down the boxes.

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Speaker 3: I did.

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Speaker 1: I just did a bunch of stuff that I have

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Speaker 1: not had time to do, or if I had the time,

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Speaker 1: I did not have the energy to do. So I

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Speaker 1: also got to go outside. That was nice. So you're

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Speaker 1: getting rid of things, Yeah, yeah, it was really nice.

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Speaker 1: I took a shower last night. Oh my gosh, I'm

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Speaker 1: living the dream. That's how like stressed I've been though,

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Speaker 1: Is that like if I can check off these things, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I feel a lot better.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I Yeah, I'm with you with the Giant.

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Speaker 2: I love fall.

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Speaker 1: We just don't get a lot of it.

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Speaker 4: I think we've talked about us enough that I'm trying

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Speaker 4: to get into the spirit of it, and I think

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Speaker 4: it's working. We've talked about soup on the on our

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Speaker 4: show Eves because I love soup, and last week was

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Speaker 4: like a great week of like weather for soup, so

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Speaker 4: I was very excited for Gus split second, I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I'll me get some of that. Halloween is coming up.

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Speaker 2: I don't really have good.

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Speaker 4: Not much planned, going to see some friends and hopefully

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Speaker 4: I'm not super awkward.

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Speaker 1: That's the plan. We'll see.

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Speaker 4: I'll take my anti anxiety mess just in case, so

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Speaker 4: I'm feeling prepared at the very very least. I think,

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Speaker 4: like there, I don't know what this year has been

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Speaker 4: about except for.

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Speaker 1: Anxiety plus planning, and that's.

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Speaker 4: Been like the entirety of I don't know why this

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Speaker 4: year has become that, but every time I do this,

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Speaker 4: some things have happened, like and it gets jelly duty,

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Speaker 4: but then like coming out of it and being like, hey,

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Speaker 4: we made it feels really relieving. So I don't know

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Speaker 4: exactly what looks like in the future, but I'm very

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Speaker 4: like optimistic as well, which is odd for me. That

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Speaker 4: is not that is not usually my go to. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: but hey, that's a good place to be today.

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Speaker 1: It is. I love that for you, Samantha. Thank you.

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Speaker 4: Someone we're recording this, so we've got this.

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Speaker 2: On record accountability.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, well, I'm so excited to talk about the

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Speaker 1: person you brought today. Used this has got like a

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Speaker 1: crossover from someone else we've talked about. It's got like

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Speaker 1: a lot of different first going on. It's just such

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Speaker 1: a great story. Can you tell us who we are

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Speaker 1: discussing today.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So we are talking about Willa Brown, who was

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Speaker 3: the first black woman to have a commercial pilot's license

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Speaker 3: from the US and she advocated for black pilots to

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Speaker 3: be accepted into the aviation community. So I think in

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Speaker 3: the past we've talked a little bit about Ava TRIX's.

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Speaker 3: I remember saying that, yes, that's the word they use

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Speaker 3: for female pilots. I won't be saying that word today,

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Speaker 3: but if you read some of the articles about her

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Speaker 3: and some of the texts that are about her biography,

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Speaker 3: you'll see that they use the terminology ava stricks. But

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Speaker 3: it's a pretty cool thing to do to fly as

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Speaker 3: a woman in the early nineteen hundreds, and Willa Brown

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Speaker 3: was a person who did that, who who's biography and

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Speaker 3: legacy have been uncovered and uplifted. But you know, she's

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Speaker 3: been in Hall of Fames, which will get to a

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Speaker 3: little bit more at the end of her story, but

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Speaker 3: it's definitely worth talking about more because she was kind

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Speaker 3: of integral in bringing more black people into aviation and

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Speaker 3: like being an actual force for that. So she did

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Speaker 3: that as virtue of being a pilot herself, but she

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Speaker 3: also advocated for that, like she spoke up for other

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Speaker 3: people doing it, other black people getting invested in, other

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Speaker 3: women being coming in investing in aviation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she did so much. And that's something we've talked

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Speaker 1: about before on the show of how inspirational it is

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Speaker 1: to see people who care to teach the next generation

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Speaker 1: and are bring in more people. And she was definitely

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Speaker 1: living that embodied that. So shall we get into her story.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, start when she was born, which was on

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Speaker 3: January twenty second, nineteen oh six, in Glasgow, Kentucky, and

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Speaker 3: her parents were Hallie Mae Carpenter and Eric Brown. And

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Speaker 3: in nineteen fifteen, she and her family moved from their

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Speaker 3: farm in Kentucky to Indianapolis, Indiana. She had several siblings,

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Speaker 3: several brothers, and their family was looking for relief from

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Speaker 3: dem crow in Kentucky, and they were also looking for

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Speaker 3: more opportunities like so many people, so many black people

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Speaker 3: were seeking at the time. But Indianapolis still was a

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Speaker 3: racist play Like it's not like they were leaving out

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Speaker 3: of you know, you know, out of the frying pan

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Speaker 3: and into some sort of heaven.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: They went to another place where they still had more difficulties.

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Speaker 3: So then they moved to Tara Hope in Indiana, but

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Speaker 3: same thing there. They still faced difficulties and discrimination. And

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Speaker 3: in Indiana she went to Wiley High School, which was

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Speaker 3: a desegregated school there in South Tara Hope, and there

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Speaker 3: weren't many black people there. So I think I saw

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Speaker 3: that there were less than fifteen black people who went

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Speaker 3: to that school. And Willa also worked part time as

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Speaker 3: a domestic worker while in school, so We've seen this

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Speaker 3: often for people who were going through their studies, but

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Speaker 3: they still had stuff that they had to do at home,

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Speaker 3: They still had to take care of their families. They

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Speaker 3: were responsible in some way for the economic stability of

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Speaker 3: the family, and so that was probably the case for Willa.

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Speaker 3: But she graduated high school in nineteen twenty three and

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Speaker 3: she went to Indiana State Normal School, which is now

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Speaker 3: Indiana State University. She majored in business and she minored

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Speaker 3: in French.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not.

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Speaker 3: So sure what drove her to major and minor in

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Speaker 3: those things. I mean, I would love to know a

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Speaker 3: little bit more about what drove her to be interested

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Speaker 3: in business in French, but I'm not quite sure about that.

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Speaker 3: But it is known that she also joined the Black

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Speaker 3: sorority Alpha Kappa Alpha, and before she graduated, she got

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Speaker 3: a teaching job at the Roosevelt Annex in Gary, Indiana.

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Speaker 3: She taught typewriting and stenography when she was there, and

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Speaker 3: she also sponsored the writing club and she was faculty

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Speaker 3: advisor for the school's newspaper. So at the beginning of episode,

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Speaker 3: we talked a little bit about how she advocated for

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Speaker 3: other people. Once she gets into her aviation career. But

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Speaker 3: I just wanted to stop to think about how some

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Speaker 3: of her early interests in teaching and in developing her

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Speaker 3: own writing and other her own communication skills and other

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Speaker 3: people's communication skills probably would have been a great foundation

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Speaker 3: for that kind of public relations, kind of promotional work

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Speaker 3: that she did later when it comes to piloting. So

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Speaker 3: I imagine at this point she has clearly, if she's teaching it,

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Speaker 3: a great foundation in communications and writing and knowing how

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Speaker 3: to speak to people and knowing how to develop her voice,

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Speaker 3: how to use it in a persuasive manner, and things

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Speaker 3: like that. So when she was working in Gary, she

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Speaker 3: met Wilbur J. Hardaway, who was a Black Republican alderman

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Speaker 3: who represented the fifth ward on the city council. He

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Speaker 3: was also a member of the local chapter of the NAACP,

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Speaker 3: and he graduated from the Tuskegee Institute and was one

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Speaker 3: of the first black firefighters in Gary. He also I'm

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Speaker 3: not so sure about much of the conversations that they

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Speaker 3: had in their relationship, but he also probably had to

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Speaker 3: do with the development of her consciousness around blackness, around politicism,

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Speaker 3: around investment.

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Speaker 2: In your community.

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Speaker 3: It seems like he might have had some sort of

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Speaker 3: role in her life in helping encourage the development of

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Speaker 3: those things in her or the way that they spoke

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Speaker 3: to each other and worked together was part of that development.

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Speaker 3: They got married on November twenty fourth, nineteen twenty nine,

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Speaker 3: and they divorced in nineteen thirty one. And she later

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Speaker 3: explained that she wasn't cut out to be a housewife.

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Speaker 3: And once we start going through her story a little

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Speaker 3: bit more, it feels like that'll kind of make sense.

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Speaker 3: This was her first time getting married, it won't be

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Speaker 3: her last time getting married in her life.

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Speaker 1: And also she was.

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Speaker 3: Very, very invest in fine and in developing her career

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Speaker 3: in aviation. So she got her degree from Indiana State

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Speaker 3: in nineteen thirty one, and in nineteen thirty two she

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Speaker 3: moved to Chicago. So at the time, Chicago was largely segregated,

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Speaker 3: with most of the black folks living on the South Side.

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Speaker 3: But I'm sure y'all have talked about the history of

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Speaker 3: Chicago during this time, Like it was very vibrant. It

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Speaker 3: was full of lots of black culture, social social movements,

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Speaker 3: and arts, and there was a lot of there was

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Speaker 3: a lot of movement around black people developing themselves professionally

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Speaker 3: and developing their social consciousnesses in Chicago.

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Speaker 2: So when she was in Chicago, Willow.

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Speaker 3: Worked as a secretary to the director of the Chicago

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Speaker 3: Relief Administration. She also worked as a social services worker

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Speaker 3: for the Cook County Bureau pub Welfare. She worked as

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Speaker 3: a clerk for the US Department of Immigration and Naturalization,

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Speaker 3: and she worked for the US Post Office. And she

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Speaker 3: was at some point as secretary for the scholar Horace Kitton.

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Speaker 3: She was also the first black person to work at

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Speaker 3: the Social Security Board's Chicago office. So moving on to

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Speaker 3: where she became interested in aviation, she, like many other

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Speaker 3: black women at the time, was very inspired by Bessie Coleman.

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Speaker 3: So I think a lot of people are probably familiar

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Speaker 3: with Bessie Coleman, another person who has a huge legacy,

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Speaker 3: a Black woman who has a huge legacy in aviation

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Speaker 3: in the United States and overseas because she was like

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Speaker 3: when I think about Bessie Coleman, I think about she

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Speaker 3: was like one of those foundational people in Black History

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Speaker 3: Month for me, Like when I was in kindergarten, she

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Speaker 3: was one of the people who was on the little

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Speaker 3: contour drawings that they would do and we would have

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Speaker 3: to color them in and they would put them up

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Speaker 3: on the wall. Bessie Coleman was one of those people

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Speaker 3: you know, next to George Washington Carver or Garrett Morgan.

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Speaker 2: So I think.

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Speaker 3: About that when I think about Bessie Coleman and how

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Speaker 3: foundation of a legacy she is. So it's nice to

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Speaker 3: see her show up in Willa Brown's legacy because she

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Speaker 3: too was a pioneer, and it's nice to see how

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Speaker 3: that lineage and line kind of continued. And Willa was

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Speaker 3: able to be inspired by Bessie and actually wrap that

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Speaker 3: history into the work that she was doing herself. So

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Speaker 3: Bessie Coleman was the first black woman and Native Americans

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Speaker 3: to have a pilot's license, and Bessie got her license

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Speaker 3: in nineteen twenty one in France. So Willa in nineteen

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Speaker 3: thirty four she worked at a Walgreens in Chicago and

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Speaker 3: she met a black pilot named John C. Robinson, and

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Speaker 3: he was also an important person and her becoming inspired

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Speaker 3: to get into aviation. John Robinson convinced her to take

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Speaker 3: flying lessons, and Chicago was like a hub for black

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Speaker 3: pilots and aviation in the country. So Willa Brown was

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Speaker 3: in a good place. So this is where she starts

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Speaker 3: to fall into. I've met the right people, and I

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Speaker 3: have interest, and I'm in the right place to actually

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Speaker 3: see this interest to go somewhere. And all the sources

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Speaker 3: and the different sources that I've read about Willa Brown,

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Speaker 3: they all kind of mention his intro, his encouragement of

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Speaker 3: her to get into aviation, and also her inspiration by

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Speaker 3: Bessie Coleman. But there has to be so much more

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Speaker 3: of a story here because and I don't know it,

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Speaker 3: because I'm not a scholar in Willa Brown's life, and

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Speaker 3: the sources that I've read haven't gone super super deep

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Speaker 3: into that, and I'm not sure it's fully known because

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Speaker 3: to be a black woman, to be black, to be

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Speaker 3: a woman at the time, to want to get into aviation,

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Speaker 3: there has to be some sort of strong impetus, even

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Speaker 3: if it's not the picture perfect movie version of Like

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Speaker 3: I had this tada aha moment of I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 3: I can you know I can do this thing that

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Speaker 3: nobody else is really doing or not many people at

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Speaker 3: all are doing in in this way, and I feel

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Speaker 3: confident enough to go into it. Not so sure about that, also,

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Speaker 3: not sure how her parents may have raised her or

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Speaker 3: what it was in her childhood that would have given

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Speaker 3: her the gumption, the you know, strength, the fortitude and

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Speaker 3: the will to be able to go into this field.

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Speaker 2: And also, I mean I would like to We.

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Speaker 3: May have talked about this last time, we talked about

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Speaker 3: polist but I would like to learn how to flop places.

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Speaker 3: But it's the thing I know I'm not going to do,

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Speaker 3: but it is apocalyptic and apocalyptic skill that I would

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Speaker 3: like to have because I feel like it would be

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Speaker 3: very useful. But it seems so scary, so like to

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Speaker 3: want to do something that is so so like to me,

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Speaker 3: fearless in a way, and requires a lot of knowledge

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Speaker 3: to learn how to do at this time when you're

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Speaker 3: facing so many direct challenges, direct challenges because there were

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Speaker 3: direct challenges for her as a black woman, Then that

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Speaker 3: seems like that takes a lot of will for sure.

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Speaker 3: So wish I knew more about that. I do not,

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Speaker 3: But I think there's a little bit of room to

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Speaker 3: bring our imaginations and you know, educated guesses into play here.

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Speaker 3: So John Robinson introduced her to Cornelius Coffee and John

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Speaker 3: and Cornelius taught at the Curtis Right Aeronautical School which

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Speaker 3: they had attended before, and fought to bring more black

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Speaker 3: students to so as part of them trying to get

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Speaker 3: enrolled into this school, they were like, hey, no black

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Speaker 3: students are here, but I can come here. And basically

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Speaker 3: they later got the approval. They were like, Okay, if

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Speaker 3: you can bring twenty five I think it was more

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Speaker 3: black students into this school, then you can start a

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Speaker 3: separate black y'all can be together with the white folks,

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Speaker 3: but y'all can start your own separate black situation and

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Speaker 3: where you're teaching the black students how to fly. So

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Speaker 3: John and Cornelius taught the first all black class at

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Speaker 3: the school in nineteen thirty two. So Willa Brown was

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Speaker 3: in good company, in good pioneering company. Willa started taking

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Speaker 3: lessons at the segregated Harlem Airport, which was in Oaklawn, Illinois,

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Speaker 3: and she did have some setbacks though, so off to

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Speaker 3: a good start, lots of momentum, but in nineteen thirty

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Speaker 3: four she was in a car accident that broke a

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Speaker 3: lot of her bones, and after recovering from her injuries,

303
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:46,120
Speaker 3: she started flying lessons again and she took classes at

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Speaker 3: the Curtis Write School and she took them with Cornelis coffee.

305
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Speaker 3: So in nineteen thirty five she got a master's mechanics

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Speaker 3: certificate and her student pilot's license Student because she'll get

307
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Speaker 3: other pilot's license later. This is her student pilot's license,

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Speaker 3: and she joined the Challenger Air Pilots Association, which was

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Speaker 3: a black flying club in Chicago. Willa wanted more black

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Speaker 3: women to be pilots, so she tried to get more publicity.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty.

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Speaker 3: Six, she went to the Chicago Defenders Newsroom, a black newspaper,

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Speaker 3: to cover an air show that would be sponsored by

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Speaker 3: the Challenger Air Pilots Association, and so there is a

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Speaker 3: recounting of this incident. Enoch Waters, who was the paper's editor,

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Speaker 3: covered the show and even took a ride in Willa's

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Speaker 3: plane and they did figure eights and flipovers, and Enoch

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Speaker 3: said that he wasn't convinced of her competence until they

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Speaker 3: landed smoothly, so he had to see it until he

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Speaker 3: believed it. I guess, I mean, I'm like, you did

321
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Speaker 3: all those you didn't figure as and flipovers, and you

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Speaker 3: weren't convinced then, I don't know. He said it was

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Speaker 3: a little scary, but that went well, and black newspapers

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00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:12,359
Speaker 3: in general did kind of follow Willa Brown and cover

325
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Speaker 3: her accomplishments when she got new licenses and covered some

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Speaker 3: of the events that black pilots were participating in, so

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Speaker 3: they she helped in being forward and going to people

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Speaker 3: and trying to get the coverage to make sure that

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Speaker 3: what they were doing people knew about it, because there were,

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Speaker 3: of course, not only detractors, but people who were outwardly

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Speaker 3: hateful about black pilots and their ability, literally their competence,

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Speaker 3: Like you know, I think Enoch was kind of joking,

333
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,040
Speaker 3: but literally people were questioning their competence. I mean that

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00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:54,840
Speaker 3: was probably a tongue of a pretty tongue in cheek

335
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Speaker 3: because there were a lot of comments about how black

336
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,679
Speaker 3: people can't do that, like they don't have the the

337
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:05,159
Speaker 3: sound judgment, they don't have the capability mentally, you know,

338
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,520
Speaker 3: I'm sure sometimes they probably tried to back that up

339
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,920
Speaker 3: with forms of scientific racism. They don't have the actual

340
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,439
Speaker 3: capability of flying planes. They can't do it, so what

341
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:19,119
Speaker 3: are you talking about? Especially black women. So you know,

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00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 3: as we know today and all the disinformation and misinformation

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00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,480
Speaker 3: that spread online, the intentional effort to put out the

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00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:30,639
Speaker 3: truth was an important part of combating the disinformation that

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Speaker 3: was happening from the people who just didn't want black

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00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:35,679
Speaker 3: people to exist at all in any way, shape and

347
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Speaker 3: form anyway, and definitely not pilot planes. So Willa and

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Speaker 3: other black female pilots formed the Chicago Girls Flight Club.

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Speaker 2: And I think when I.

350
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Speaker 3: Was looking stuff up, there was also so this was

351
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Speaker 3: a for the black women. There was another group called

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Speaker 3: the Chicago Girls Fly Club or something like that that

353
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 3: was very close a name which had to be had

354
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,200
Speaker 3: to have been purposeful, like, you know, if people were

355
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 3: hearing about this thing they accidentally, you know, they could

356
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,160
Speaker 3: have confused one for the other, which probably worked out

357
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,239
Speaker 3: well for them. But that is just me speculating. But

358
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:20,040
Speaker 3: the names are very close. So Willa, John Cornelius, and

359
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 3: other black pilots also formed the National Negro Airmen Association

360
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,919
Speaker 3: of America in nineteen thirty seven. The organization later was

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00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:36,879
Speaker 3: renamed the National Airmen Association of America, and Cornelius in

362
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Speaker 3: nineteen thirty seven opened the Coffee School of Aeronautics around

363
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,440
Speaker 3: the same time, so Willa had to have been going

364
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,640
Speaker 3: to school up until this point. She got her master's

365
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 3: degree in business administration from Northwestern University in nineteen thirty seven.

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Speaker 3: So this track that she started on before she got

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Speaker 3: into aviation, she was still on. She was still interested

368
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Speaker 3: in business administration. I'm not it definitely came in handy

369
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Speaker 3: in the work that she was doing. I'm not sure

370
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 3: why she continued to go on this path, but her

371
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 3: background knowledge and business administration clearly was helpful for the

372
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Speaker 3: work that she was doing and helping run the coffee school.

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Speaker 3: Because she helped Cornelius run the coffee school and helping

374
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Speaker 3: how she kind of had the wherewithal to market the

375
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,440
Speaker 3: accomplishments that they were making. Clearly, it was a good

376
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Speaker 3: base for her to become the person that she became

377
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 3: an aviation and speaking of. In April nineteen thirty eight,

378
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 3: she got her solo pilot's license, and then in June

379
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,679
Speaker 3: she got her private pilot's license, and that license allowed

380
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 3: her to fly non paying passengers in her plane.

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Speaker 2: So I'm curious just jog my memory for y'all. Do y'all.

382
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Speaker 3: Are y'all okay with flying on the smaller planes or

383
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Speaker 3: planes at all?

384
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Speaker 1: I am? I am. I've been on two really small

385
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:08,360
Speaker 1: planes like and that you it is a little scarier

386
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: because it's moving all around and I can only imagine

387
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 1: at this time different technology. So I don't know how

388
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 1: cool I would have been with it back then. Generally, yes, recently,

389
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Speaker 1: because we keep hearing news about how the planes are

390
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: falling apart, I've gotten a little more nervous, but generally yes, okay.

391
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Speaker 4: I don't have many experiences with smaller planes, but in general,

392
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 4: it's going to what medication I'm on at that point

393
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 4: in time, a B, how big the flight is, and

394
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Speaker 4: how rough the flight is, because I do get motion

395
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 4: sickness pretty badly, so all of that kind of encompasses that.

396
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 4: And then like, yeah, after years, I've seen all the

397
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 4: reports of like all the planes falling apart that I'm like,

398
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,640
Speaker 4: I'm a little nervous, but not like it's not debilitating.

399
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Speaker 4: But I don't know about small planes, Like I think

400
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 4: I've on one small plane. I can't remember my reaction

401
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:08,199
Speaker 4: other than oh God, it's small, that's it, okay, cool.

402
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just trying to think about what it was

403
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 3: like for her back then to fly those smaller planes.

404
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,679
Speaker 3: She did end up, I think it was by nineteen

405
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 3: forty she ended up getting her She ended up buying

406
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 3: her own airplane, so she was definitely moving forward pretty quickly.

407
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 3: And there is there was in the Pittsburgh Courier, which

408
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 3: was a black newspaper, they covered her accomplishment of getting

409
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 3: her private pilot's license, and she responded to that coverage

410
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 3: with a letter to the editor and she said this,

411
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 3: when I whipped my airplane through the designated spins spirals,

412
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 3: figure eights, verticals and passed the written tests last month

413
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 3: to get a private pilot's license, I was overcome with

414
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,360
Speaker 3: joy to have accomplished my desire. But there also came

415
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 3: a deep satisfaction to know that our newspapers and magazines

416
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 3: showed such curtis as to carry articles and pictures concerning

417
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 3: this event. So she, in this kind of made a

418
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 3: narrative situation, was expressing her love for knowing that people

419
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 3: were actually paying attention and people were doing the work

420
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 3: to cover it. She had to take her written and

421
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 3: her flight tests a couple of times though, after failing

422
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 3: portions of the exam and not getting passing scores on

423
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,360
Speaker 3: her flights. But on August nineteen thirty nine, she got

424
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 3: her limited commercial license and also Willa and Cornelius Coffee

425
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 3: got married. And I've seen different days for this, but

426
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 3: it looked like it was nineteen thirty nine, and it

427
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 3: was that same year that President Franklin Roosevelt signed the

428
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 3: Civil Pilot Training Act into law. So this is kind

429
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 3: of where we start to see Willa Brown's reach expand

430
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 3: beyond their circle in Chicago. So this act authorized the

431
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 3: Civil Aviation Authority to train civilian pilots through educational institutions.

432
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 3: According to the rules of this act, the program had

433
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 3: to include black folks, so they were like, it's got

434
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 3: to have black folks in it. And another stipulation was

435
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 3: that some of the trainees had to be non college students.

436
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 3: And the National Airmen Association of America applied to the

437
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 3: Civil Aviation Authority and it planned on using the Coffee

438
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 3: School of Aeronautics for flight training. So from now on,

439
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 3: when I bring up the National Airmen's Association, I'm just

440
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 3: going to say in AAA because it's kind of a mouthful,

441
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 3: and I won't say that too often, so don't worry, y'all.

442
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 3: So Willa worked to get the NAAA accepted to the

443
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 3: Civil Pilot Training program, and in nineteen thirty nine, it

444
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 3: was accepted as a training provider. Huge deal. So now they,

445
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 3: through their school can train black pilots. And Time magazine

446
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 3: reported on this accomplishment and a September nineteen thirty nine issue,

447
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 3: and this is what they said. One civilian flyer who

448
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 3: was highly pleased by ciaa's announcement was a cream and

449
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 3: coffee skinned negress of twenty nine. There is a small

450
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 3: chance that Willa Beatrice Brown will ever fly for the.

451
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: Army or Navy.

452
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 3: Sorry for laughing, but as secretary of the National Airman's Association,

453
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 3: in one of the few Negro aviatrixes holding a limited

454
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 3: commercial license, she has labored mightily to whip up interest

455
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 3: in flying among negroes and to get them a share

456
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 3: in ceaa's training program. And so I'm just laughing because

457
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 3: they're like, oh, she can do this, but she's definitely

458
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 3: not gonna do that. She's never going to fly for

459
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 3: the army or navy. So they had to reel back

460
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 3: the complimentary attitude just a little bit. They had to

461
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 3: temper that. They were like, calm down, you know, you're

462
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 3: not going to get all that so soon, not so fast.

463
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 4: But the person who was assigned to write that was like,

464
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 4: I don't want to do this, but fine, I'll do

465
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 4: it this way.

466
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 2: That's true, Samantha, They probably really did it.

467
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 3: They're probably like, I have to write I have to

468
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 3: write a complimentary passage about a black woman today.

469
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: Oh God. Yeah.

470
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 3: So, Willa and her colleagues from other colleges and institutions

471
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 3: who were involved in the training program formed the Aeronautical

472
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 3: Association of Negro Schools, and she became the organization's vice president.

473
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 3: And they wanted to address students' concerns like getting college

474
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 3: credits for program courses and getting adequate equipment. In nineteen

475
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 3: forty she got her ground instructor rating, which allowed her

476
00:28:54,000 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 3: to teach ground school courses and as kind of an

477
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 3: example of how she was starting to reach beyond and

478
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 3: really trying to make her reach massive and the scope

479
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 3: of how she was trying to get more black people

480
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 3: into aviation more massive. In nineteen forty one, she wrote

481
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 3: a letter to First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt, and she said,

482
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 3: during the past three years, I have devoted full time

483
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 3: to aviation, and for the most part, marked progress has

484
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 3: been made. I have, however, encountered several difficulties, several of

485
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 3: them I have handled very well, and some have been

486
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 3: far too great for me to master. So she's acknowledging

487
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 3: some of the difficulties that she went to, some of

488
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 3: the discrimination that she was facing and facing in her

489
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 3: attempted advocacy for other more black people to get into aviation.

490
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 3: And she's writing to the first Lady, so she knows

491
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 3: how big of a deal this is. Not just because

492
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 3: she feels that more black people should be entire and

493
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 3: allowed to be an aviation and have the resources and

494
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 3: the means to learn how to do so, but also because,

495
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 3: like you know, the country could probably benefit from this too,

496
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 3: and from having more people in aviation, especially at this time.

497
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 3: So when new rules for federal pilot's licenses were passed

498
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 3: in nineteen forty one, Willa took tests to get her

499
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 3: commercial airmin certificate because they were changing the rules and

500
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 3: I think they were going to get rid of the

501
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 3: limited commercial license that she had, so she took those tests. However,

502
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 3: she failed, and she reverted back to a private pilot's license.

503
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 3: When the US entered World War Two in nineteen forty one,

504
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 3: though the pilot training program, which was civilian, switched to

505
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 3: training pilots for serving in the military. So at this

506
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 3: point women couldn't go to training classes, and many of

507
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 3: the black training schools closed. But in nineteen forty two,

508
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 3: the CAAA and that it was authorized to train black

509
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 3: people as non combat pilots, and initially they approved training

510
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty black pilots. Half of those would

511
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 3: be at Tuskegee and the other half would be at

512
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 3: Coffee School, which is where Willa was. So the Tuskegee

513
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 3: Institute and the Coffee School stayed open and they kept

514
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 3: training black students, and Willa and the Coffee School trained

515
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 3: some students who became Tuskegee Airmen, and Willa was gaining

516
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 3: popularity for her own flying. She was described as a

517
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 3: quote woman who swears, occasionally, plays cards once a week,

518
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 3: likes to sip cocktails at the bar, and simply craves

519
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 3: gospel music. So there's a little bit more of her

520
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 3: personality showing up beyond her piloting that she did, and

521
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 3: besides the advocacy work that she was a little bit

522
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 3: more of her personality showing up, so we can know

523
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 3: a little bit more about Willa the p And she

524
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 3: also helped establish the first desegregated Civil Air Patrol unit

525
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 3: in the country. The Civil Air Patrol supported using civilian

526
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 3: resources to aid the war effort, and the first black

527
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 3: unit of the Civil Air Patrol was established in Illinois

528
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 3: in February of nineteen forty two, and Willa more first

529
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 3: became the first black member and first female officer in

530
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 3: the Civil Air Patrol on February twenty fifth of that year,

531
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 3: and she had different appointments and she was commissioned as

532
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 3: a second lieutenant and the one hundred and eleventh Flight

533
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 3: Squadron of the Illinois Civil Air Patrol began operations in

534
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 3: March nineteen forty two. Most of those pilots, I think

535
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 3: there were twenty five where there were men and women,

536
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 3: and most of those pilots in the unit were from

537
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 3: Coffee school. So in nineteen forty three, when Willa got

538
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 3: her mechanics license, she became the first American woman to

539
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 3: have both a mechanics and a commercial pilot's license. So

540
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 3: Willa's getting more into bringing other people up. So she's

541
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 3: got her own accomplishments. Now she's trying to bring more

542
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 3: young people into flying. So in nineteen forty four, she

543
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 3: started a recruiting drive to enroll five thousand children as

544
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 3: members of a junior airman's group. But soon she decided

545
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 3: that she was gonna kind of leave that effort behind.

546
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 3: She passed it along to someone else. I believe it

547
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 3: was Cornelius who took over after her, but she left

548
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 3: it says she was temporarily retiring from aviation to fight

549
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 3: the New Deal's racist policies, so she wanted full integration,

550
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 3: not segregated units. So the segregated units wasn't good enough

551
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 3: for her, and she said, quote, the only way Negro

552
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 3: people can tear down the network of New Deal dishonesty, prejudice, crookedness,

553
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 3: mistreatment of Negro soldiers, and emptied gestures to the Negro

554
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 3: race is to out the New Deal administry.

555
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: She started to focus.

556
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 3: More on politics, and in nineteen forty four she was

557
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 3: a second ward Republican precinct captain. So what she did

558
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 3: was organized efforts for people to go door to door

559
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 3: advocating for the election of Republicans. And she said, I intend,

560
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 3: through the Crusader organization to expose the New Deal's pretended

561
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 3: friendliness to the Negro race.

562
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 2: So you can see how she is.

563
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 3: Bringing more of her politics into the work that she

564
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 3: had already been doing as trying to bring more black

565
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 3: people into aviation, and her calling out this falsity which

566
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 3: still happens today, of pandering but not actually instituting well

567
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 3: thought out and actually things that productively and significantly changed

568
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 3: conditions for black people. So things that looked really shiny

569
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:03,720
Speaker 3: on the outside that, by Willa's estimation, wasn't good enough.

570
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 3: Now there's of course a longer and deeper argument amongst

571
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 3: black people about whether integration or continuing segregation segregated units

572
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 3: was well.

573
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 2: Lots of different layers to it, whether.

574
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 3: Segregated units was good enough, whether integration was as a

575
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 3: whole great better for black people in terms of what

576
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 3: black people would have gotten out of it, Lots of

577
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 3: other layers of arguments and debates along those lines, But

578
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 3: in terms of Willa, she was not interested in segregated units.

579
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 3: So Willa also said that the Republican Party was quote

580
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 3: the party of the people, the party of redemption, the

581
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,760
Speaker 3: party of law and order, in the party of justice

582
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 3: and equality. So Willa was definitely thinking from a partisan

583
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 3: way this time, thinking of, Okay, this is a party

584
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 3: that's you know, this is these are the ideological lines

585
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:05,839
Speaker 3: that I want to be aligned with. So the war

586
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 3: ended in nineteen forty five, and by the end of

587
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,760
Speaker 3: the war, the Coffee School had trained more than fifteen

588
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 3: hundred black students, including some that went to the ninety

589
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 3: ninth Pursuit Squadron, which was an all black unit that

590
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 3: went to North Africa. But Cornelius and Willa they were

591
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 3: against desegregated units and they wanted integrated once and Willa said,

592
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 3: there is not segregation in the CAAA programs, and there

593
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 3: have been no race riots or violence because of this fact.

594
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 3: So she was saying, look at these examples of situations

595
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,240
Speaker 3: in which there was integration and there weren't just segregated units,

596
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 3: and everything's going just fine. Like the fear that you

597
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 3: might have of there being race riots or something some

598
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 3: extreme hostility because of integration isn't actually one that's based

599
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 3: on anything legitimate, is what she was saying. The Coffee

600
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:59,959
Speaker 3: School closed once the war ended, the government contracts were done,

601
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 3: and Willa became involved even more heavily in politics. In

602
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 3: nineteen forty six, she became the first black woman to

603
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 3: run for a congressional.

604
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: Seat in Chicago's first district.

605
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 3: She ran as a Republican and lost in the primary election,

606
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 3: and Willa and Cornelius divorced in nineteen forty seven, and

607
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 3: she ran for Congress in nineteen forty eight in nineteen

608
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 3: fifty as well, but she lost, and I guess that

609
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 3: kind of got out. She was like, Okay, the people

610
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 3: have spoken to what it seemed like. She tapped out

611
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 3: of politics, and in nineteen fifty five, in her third marriage,

612
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 3: she married Reverend J. H. Chapel or Chappelle, I'm not

613
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 3: sure how you pronounce it, who was a minister of

614
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 3: the Westside Community Church in Chicago, and she was active

615
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 3: in the church. She later discovered herself during this time

616
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 3: as being a church woman, and in nineteen sixty two

617
00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 3: she started teaching in schools again. She taught typing, hand

618
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 3: and secretarial classes, so back to the beginning, kind of

619
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 3: like a full circle because she was teaching typing and

620
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 3: writing and secretarial classes earlier too. But in nineteen seventy

621
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 3: one she retired from teaching, and the Federal Aviation Administration

622
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:22,240
Speaker 3: appointed her to its Women's Advisory Board. Three years later,

623
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 3: she resigned from the board and her husband died in

624
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty four, and Willa herself died on July eighteenth,

625
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety two, from complications of a stroke. At the

626
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 3: time of her death, she was eighty six years old,

627
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 3: and she was buried in Lincoln Cemetery in Chicago. So

628
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 3: posthumously she was recognized. Two thousand and three, she was

629
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,879
Speaker 3: inducted into the Aviation Museum of Kentucky's Hall of Fame.

630
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,240
Speaker 3: In twenty sixteen, she was inducted into the Illinois Aviation

631
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 3: Hall of Fame, and in twenty twenty two she was

632
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 3: inducted into the National Aviation Hall of Fame in Dayton, Ohio.

633
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 3: So her legacy has been acknowledged in those very visible ways.

634
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 1: And that's her story in a nutshell. It's quite the

635
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 1: story to wrangle. This is like she just did so

636
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 1: much and she was such an advocate for other people,

637
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 1: and she was very she was involved in teaching in

638
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. And this kind of makes me regret,

639
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: Like when I was in college, you just want to

640
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: get stuff done. I should have talked to my teachers more.

641
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,439
Speaker 1: Who knows what they did, Like this is wild, that's true. Yeah,

642
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: if I was to like taking like a penmanship class,

643
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: which is important, and I didn't never thought about the

644
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 1: teacher but you ask her about her life and she's like, well,

645
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 1: I ran her office, I was a pilot, I did

646
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 1: like all of these different things. It's just quite the

647
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: story she has.

648
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think I've read that when she was

649
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 3: appointed to the Women's Advisory Board, she was listed as

650
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 3: a school teacher, which she would have been most recently,

651
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 3: but they didn't mention anything about her aviation history. And

652
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 3: I'm not sure if that's because they were like, oh,

653
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 3: she's an a Women's Advisory Board of the FAA, like

654
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 3: they know she had something to do with aviation. But

655
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 3: I also wonder if she was like, well, I haven't.

656
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 3: This is what I'm doing, this is what I've been

657
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 3: doing most recently, this is who I am now. And

658
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 3: it's not like that's any less than all of the

659
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 3: aviation that I did. And clearly I'm here on the

660
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 3: board for a reason. I'm just curious as to if

661
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 3: that was something that was self chosen, or if that

662
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 3: was a slight maybe, or if it wasn't a slight

663
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 3: and that was just somebody else who communicated it that way.

664
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 3: But it is interesting to think about the reasons behind that.

665
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially because it was such a big part of

666
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: her life for so long. Yeah, I love that Bessy

667
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: Coleman showed up here as well, because we did talk

668
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: about we've done an episode on her. Right brain is

669
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 1: not We've done so much stuff.

670
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 2: I know.

671
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 4: I know.

672
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: Time I'm like convinced I've never talked about something, and

673
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 1: I find out a good episode on it in another half,

674
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 1: it turns.

675
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 2: Out we haven't ep.

676
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I was like, I think we've done Bessie

677
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:24,879
Speaker 1: cole Man. We definitely talked about pilots before, Yes, we.

678
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 4: Have, right, Yeah, I'm pretty sure we talked about it.

679
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 4: We did because like it's she's one of those that

680
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 4: when you don't have actual teachings and you come from

681
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,399
Speaker 4: a very white background, you might not not have known

682
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 4: about her until college or after the fact when you

683
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 4: had to do your own research. Like definitely one of

684
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 4: those conversations.

685
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.

686
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,320
Speaker 3: And so so if anybody wants to go and listen

687
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 3: to more about Bessie Coleman than y'a can go back

688
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 3: and listen. So by my estimation, by my list, it

689
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 3: was the fifteenth episode that we did female first. I

690
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 3: went back and look because I'm like, didn't we because

691
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 3: we've done a lot of episodes.

692
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: We talked about it.

693
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,720
Speaker 3: I just don't know where that would have been years ago,

694
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 3: probably too, probably.

695
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 1: Through three years ago. Maybe was it before me? So

696
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: what you said? Any No, I thought it would have

697
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: been before the pandemic. Yeah, since the fiftieth we did

698
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: in office. Yes, well, that makes me feel better. You

699
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 1: remember correctly. I was convinced because I remember how she died,

700
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 1: and we had that conversation in that episode about flights

701
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 1: and would you fly? I remember it the pilot. I

702
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: remember that conversation. Yes, but this was I'm so glad,

703
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: as always you brought this story to us because I

704
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 1: had not heard everything about Willi Brown and what she

705
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: had done. And so it is such a great story,

706
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: and I hope more people hear it. And we always

707
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: appreciate you giving us all these details and doing all

708
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 1: of that work. No problem. I'm happy to share these

709
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: stories truly. Yes, well, we are always happy to have you.

710
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 1: Where can the good listeners find you?

711
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 3: So y'all can find me online? Y'all can just go

712
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 3: to my website, which is Eves Jeffcote dot com.

713
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 2: Eves is spelled Yves. My last name is Jeff j

714
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 2: Eff cot Coat.

715
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 3: Just like the Thing you Wear dot com, so you

716
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 3: can go there and you can get to a lot

717
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 3: of other places From there, you can join my newsletter.

718
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 3: If you go to my contact page, you'll find a

719
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,280
Speaker 3: contact box. If you scroll down, you'll get to the newsletter.

720
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 3: You can also just go to Instagram and you can

721
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 3: find me there at not Apologizing And if you're a

722
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 3: social media person then that will be basically the only

723
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 3: way you can find me directly on social media. And

724
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,720
Speaker 3: you can also find me on the podcast on Theme,

725
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 3: which is a podcast about black storytelling. And you can

726
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 3: also go to listen to all the other episodes of

727
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 3: Female First that we've done here on stuff Mom Never

728
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 3: Told You.

729
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, the many episodes we have done. And Eves

730
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 1: makes great content, as hopefully you all know if you

731
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,399
Speaker 1: listen to this, So go check u'se out in all

732
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 1: of the places and listeners. If you would like to

733
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: contact us, you can you can email us at stuff Medium,

734
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: mom Stuff at a heeartmedia dot com. You can find

735
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 1: us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcasts, or Instagram and

736
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 1: to talk at Stuff I Never Told You. You have

737
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: a tape of bookstore and a book you can get

738
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: wherever you get your books. Thanks as always, to our

739
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,280
Speaker 1: super producer Christenior executive producer My and your contributor Joey,

740
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: thank you and thanks to you for listening. Stuff I

741
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 1: Never told you is protection by Heart Radio. For more

742
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Speaker 1: podcasts in my heart Radio, you can check out the

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