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Speaker 1: In my many years covering politics, I've interviewed countless politicians,

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Speaker 1: members of Congress, senators, governors, and essential candidates. And the

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Speaker 1: job is a fine line. As a journalist, it is

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Speaker 1: not my job to be liked by these people. I'm

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Speaker 1: there to hold them and other people in positions of

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Speaker 1: power accountable. I've never cared about being invited to cocktail

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Speaker 1: parties or White House Christmas parties by the people that

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Speaker 1: I cover.

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Speaker 2: That said, we're also just human beings, and.

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Speaker 1: Over the course of so many years, you do get

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Speaker 1: to know people and sometimes you just click. Maybe you

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Speaker 1: realize you have something in common. You might even be friends.

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Speaker 1: It happens. My next guest is someone I've interviewed many times.

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Speaker 1: I am sure he would agree I never pulled any punches,

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Speaker 1: especially when he was running for president. No one is

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Speaker 1: my friend when they're running for president. And we're also

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Speaker 1: on different sides of the aisle. We have political differences,

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Speaker 1: but we also have a.

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Speaker 2: Lot in common. We're we're parents to young kids.

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Speaker 1: I feel like we see the world in a similar way,

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Speaker 1: and even when we disagree, I always really respect where

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Speaker 1: he's coming from. And that's the point of this podcast,

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Speaker 1: to remember who we are outside of politics, we're just people.

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Speaker 1: So I'm really happy to welcome to off the cup

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Speaker 1: a person I've gotten to know, person I really like,

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Speaker 1: your Congressman from California, Eric Swallwell, welcome, Hey.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. You never pulled any.

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Speaker 1: Punches, you would agree, right, I am not like an

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Speaker 1: easy interview just because we're friendly.

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Speaker 3: No, I remember you interviewed me once.

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Speaker 4: I was standing in a field in New Hampshire, and

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Speaker 4: I think you're asking me like why I hadn't dropped

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Speaker 4: out something like that, like I wasn't doing so hot.

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Speaker 2: That's ridiculous. I would never say that.

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Speaker 4: That's not like a weird like it was. I ultimately

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Speaker 4: dropped out, But I.

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Speaker 2: Think, no, No, I know what it was.

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Speaker 1: I know what you're talking about, because the most like

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Speaker 1: hostel interview I've ever done was when you were running

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Speaker 1: for president, and it was on your gun platform, which

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Speaker 1: I didn't agree with, but I appreciated and respected because

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Speaker 1: you were openly saying what other candidates would not say.

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Speaker 1: And you ran very honestly on that platform and I

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Speaker 1: liked it, but I pushed you on it a lot.

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Speaker 2: But that's my job. So we're going to talk.

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Speaker 1: As people, not politicos. If I asked you what's.

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Speaker 2: Most important to you, Eric, it wouldn't be politics, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, of course be my kids, my family, of course.

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Speaker 1: Right right, because we're just people at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day. I want to know a little bit about

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Speaker 1: your childhood. What kind of kid were you?

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Speaker 4: Well, I'm the oldest and I'm the son of a cop,

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Speaker 4: so I was a rule follower. My dad was able

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Speaker 4: to scare the living shit out of me about most things,

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Speaker 4: but it only really worked on me because like my

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Speaker 4: brothers would like take far greater risks than I I would,

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Speaker 4: and so I was kind of, I would say, scared

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Speaker 4: straight as a kid. I have an Irish twin brother

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Speaker 4: who's eleven months younger than I am, and then two

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Speaker 4: other brothers.

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Speaker 3: Who are pretty close in age.

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Speaker 4: They like four of us within essentially like six ish years,

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Speaker 4: so we're all close in age.

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Speaker 3: Four boys.

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Speaker 4: We all played sports growing up, so we're very competitive.

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Speaker 4: But I was the worst at sports as far as

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Speaker 4: like pure talent, and the brother just below me was

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Speaker 4: really good.

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Speaker 3: And so I'll give you an example.

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Speaker 4: We were on the same little league team together, and

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Speaker 4: in little league there still is this like sibling.

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Speaker 3: Preference, like the rule of two, Like if if you draft.

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Speaker 4: Someone who has a brother who could also be on

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Speaker 4: the team, like you get the brother. So it's like

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Speaker 4: two for one. So Little League together and there's always

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Speaker 4: that two for one rule. And during like our twelve

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Speaker 4: year old all Star year and this is the Little

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Speaker 4: League World Series age group where the local All Star

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Speaker 4: team is the one that competes to go to Williamsburg

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Speaker 4: for the Williamsburg Williamsport for the.

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Speaker 3: Little League Series.

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Speaker 4: And so I did not as a twelve year old,

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Speaker 4: I did not make the team. But my eleven year

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Speaker 4: old brother did make the team. And I remember going

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Speaker 4: to my dad and I'm like, what the hell is this?

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Speaker 4: This is like he as he's only on the team

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Speaker 4: because they drafted me. Like this is where we should

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Speaker 4: probably tell you you were on the team because they

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Speaker 4: drafted him first, and you are the traveling, trailing sibling.

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Speaker 4: So I had my like ego rock at age twelve

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Speaker 4: and the same little brother who was eleven months behind.

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Speaker 4: He also was so gifted in school that in elementary

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Speaker 4: school the teachers wanted to put him up a year

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Speaker 4: in my grade. And my parents are like, we absolutely

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Speaker 4: cannot do that. To Eric, like that would be the

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Speaker 4: best for my brother, but that would be the worst

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Speaker 4: thing for Eric, like he cannot handle that.

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Speaker 3: So that that was the upbring just.

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Speaker 4: Like really talented gifted little brothers with you. I had

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Speaker 4: Bell's palsy as well when I was in elementary school,

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Speaker 4: and so the left side of my face was fully

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Speaker 4: paralyzed for some time, and about eighty percent of it

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Speaker 4: has come back. But when you're a little kid and

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Speaker 4: you have that, that also like it' screwsy up because

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Speaker 4: you can't.

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Speaker 3: Smile, right.

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Speaker 4: I remember I had to wear an eyepatch to sleep,

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Speaker 4: and so that was a vivid.

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Speaker 2: Memory of were you were you bullied for that?

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Speaker 4: No, I don't remember being bullied for that. I think

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Speaker 4: I bullied myself for that, if that makes sense.

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Speaker 3: Like I was just I mean it was like hard

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Speaker 3: on myself.

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Speaker 4: I thought that it was a thing that everyone else

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Speaker 4: was thinking about or talking about, and so I know

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Speaker 4: that I would like kind of shrink in different circumstances.

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Speaker 4: And then I had to wear glasses at a very

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Speaker 4: young age as well. So I and then again you

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Speaker 4: have these three younger brothers. I mean, they all, as

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Speaker 4: I said, so athletically gifted so academically gifted, and they

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Speaker 4: look like they're out of central casting, Like you're looking

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Speaker 4: at like the least good looking swallow. It's just like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I don't know what happened to this one. But the

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Speaker 4: other three, I'm telling you, you go look at my

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Speaker 4: brothers like they are.

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Speaker 3: They're stuff.

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Speaker 4: I think all of the four of us, all three

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Speaker 4: of them were like the homecoming king every year.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, they so dominating, not nominated.

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Speaker 4: So that's what I that was up against in our

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Speaker 4: very competitive household.

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Speaker 1: But you did correct me if I'm wrong. You played,

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Speaker 1: You played soccer in college.

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Speaker 4: I was always driven to try harder because I wanted

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Speaker 4: to like not be bested by the brother who was

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Speaker 4: eleven months behind.

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Speaker 3: As I said, we were trying not for the same

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Speaker 3: team all the time.

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Speaker 4: The little league experience was jarring, and so what I

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Speaker 4: would do in high school because I loved soccer, I

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Speaker 4: was a goalkeeper and I was.

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Speaker 3: Not good enough to play on the field.

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Speaker 4: And I think most end up at like the last

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Speaker 4: position on the field because they couldn't play the other positions.

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Speaker 4: And I realized no one wanted to play goalkeeper, and

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Speaker 4: so my brothers would. They were all excellent on the field.

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Speaker 4: They were strikers, like the guys that put the goals

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Speaker 4: in the back of the neck, and so they would

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Speaker 4: shoot on me and I would like just jump around

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Speaker 4: in the backyard, and I was like, oh, I really

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Speaker 4: like this and I'm pretty good at it. And so

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Speaker 4: I would referee if I wasn't playing, and I would

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Speaker 4: take the money I made from refereeing, and I hired

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Speaker 4: like a goalkeeping coach that I would go to once a.

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Speaker 3: Week just to kind of get better at that. And

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Speaker 3: then was able, Yes, it was able to get me

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Speaker 3: to go to college.

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Speaker 4: And I picked my college sc not in a way

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Speaker 4: i'd recommend for anyone, and my parents very hard. No

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Speaker 4: one had ever gone to college, so we didn't have

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Speaker 4: like household institutional knowledge around this decision.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I needed it to be paid for.

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Speaker 4: I knew that I was very as you can tell, competitive,

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Speaker 4: and I wanted to play a vision one and I'm

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Speaker 4: very impatient, I still am, and I didn't want to

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Speaker 4: go to a school where I'd have to sit for

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Speaker 4: a couple of years.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to play as a freshman, and so I

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Speaker 3: landed in.

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Speaker 4: Race for It Campbell University in Boois, Creek, North Carolina,

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Speaker 4: one of the smallest division ones, but we will pay

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Speaker 4: for it and willing to let me play. And so

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Speaker 4: I go to this place I'd never been before, and

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Speaker 4: I played two years of soccer there. It was great,

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Speaker 4: but I got injured into my sophomore year, and it

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Speaker 4: kind of forced me to, I guess, recalibrate, like what

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Speaker 4: was important in where I wanted to be.

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Speaker 3: I ultimately ended up at Maryland.

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Speaker 1: And is that when you I know you were active

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Speaker 1: in politics in college. Is that sort of like ending

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Speaker 1: soccer and transitioning, did that sort of propel you into politics?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 4: I never could think about anything other than the next

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Speaker 4: game up to that point. Yeah, I had some experience

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Speaker 4: in high school.

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Speaker 3: I had a high school.

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Speaker 4: Teacher who exposed me to local politics a little bit,

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Speaker 4: and he was smart enough to see in me that

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Speaker 4: there was a potential beyond just sports.

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Speaker 3: And so when I got injured.

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Speaker 4: He called me and reached out to me and said,

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Speaker 4: the world's not over. Why don't you apply to be

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Speaker 4: a congressional intern for your local member of Congress. By

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Speaker 4: the way, at that point, I have no idea if

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Speaker 4: I'm a Republican or a Democrat. My parents' Republicans, so

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Speaker 4: to be like a shit disturber. I'm a Democrat. So

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Speaker 4: I go home and I interview for that job and

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Speaker 4: I was able to get it. And so I go

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Speaker 4: to DC the summer of two thousand and one, and

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Speaker 4: I didn't have any housing. I didn't know anybody in DC,

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Speaker 4: and so like through friends in college, I found a fraternity,

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Speaker 4: a Jewish engineering fraternity house at the University of Maryland

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Speaker 4: that allowed borders as they call them, during the summer,

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Speaker 4: and so I boarded Maryland went.

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Speaker 3: To the Hill. Every day. I worked at Tortilla Coast

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Speaker 3: after oh.

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Speaker 2: My god, totally totally day was over.

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Speaker 4: And to start the day, I worked at the Washington

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Speaker 4: Sports Club, which was like the GIT, So like five

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Speaker 4: to eight am, I'm at the Washington Sports Club handing

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Speaker 4: out towels to I'll never forget the leven Brothers, Sandy

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Speaker 4: Levin UH and Carl Levin and then would work the

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Speaker 4: unpaid internshift and then go to the Tortilla Coast at

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Speaker 4: the end of the day. But I just loved it.

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Speaker 4: I love being on the hill. I love being in

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Speaker 4: the environment. Yeah, and my mentor, the high school teacher,

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Speaker 4: the mentor and people in the office told me, they said,

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Speaker 4: you love this, Like, why don't you just stay at Maryland?

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Speaker 4: You already know the campus well. And so I transferred

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Speaker 4: to Maryland and I had to call my parents and

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Speaker 4: say that athletic and academic scholarship that I have at Campbell,

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Speaker 4: We're going to trade that for out of state tuition Atland.

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Speaker 3: And I had no housing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the very nice boys at the Jewish fraternity said

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Speaker 4: that if I promised to pledge the Jewish engineering fraternity,

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Speaker 4: that they would allow me to stay there for housing.

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Speaker 3: So you're looking at.

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Speaker 4: A non jew non engineer member of Alpha Sigma Phi.

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Speaker 2: Amazing. Well.

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Speaker 1: And I remember in my early twenties having very firm

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Speaker 1: political beliefs and then I became a mom.

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Speaker 2: And it's not that my beliefs changed, it's just that, like, my.

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Speaker 1: Perspective really shifted on a lot of things.

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Speaker 2: Did you find the same when you had kids?

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Speaker 4: Yes, yes, you start living the issues that you're legislating,

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Speaker 4: and you also wonder, God, what was I talking about?

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Speaker 4: What did I know when I'm in office as like

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Speaker 4: a thirty one year old with you know, not married,

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Speaker 4: no kids.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it just gave me a different perspective.

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Speaker 4: And that's not to say that you can be in Congress,

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Speaker 4: you know, married, not married, not having kids.

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Speaker 2: But of course no one needs JD Vance's advice on this, right.

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Speaker 4: I just realized there were so many issues that I

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Speaker 4: could be effective on and take the lead on. I'll

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Speaker 4: give you a funny one. Like my wife, who works

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Speaker 4: and travels for work almost as often as I do,

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Speaker 4: was constantly being shaken down by TSA agents because she's

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Speaker 4: traveling by herself, but she has breast milk with her

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Speaker 4: because she's right pumping and dumping, as they say, because

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Speaker 4: of course, when you're breastfeeding, it doesn't matter whether the

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Speaker 4: doesn't matter, like your body doesn't care where the breast

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Speaker 4: milk goes. If it's going to produce breast milk, you know,

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Speaker 4: there's a schedule that you have to do it on.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So she would travel.

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Speaker 4: And she would pump and you know, couldn't really save

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Speaker 4: it because she's moving around, but still had to do it,

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Speaker 4: and so they would treat her like suspiciously, like, well,

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Speaker 4: why isn't the child with you if this is really

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Speaker 4: breast milk that you know you're traveling with. And so

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Speaker 4: I've been working on trying to create like a trusted

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Speaker 4: Mother's program for women you know, who are traveling and

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Speaker 4: are breastfeeding.

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Speaker 1: So that's just like you never would have thought about,

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Speaker 1: never in a millionaire, right.

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Speaker 4: Except I see my wife taking aside and when I've

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Speaker 4: traveled with her as well, and they're like putting all

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Speaker 4: this stuff in, like the bottles and testing, and it's

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Speaker 4: so just dehumanizing and embarrassing for women who.

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Speaker 3: Have to do this, and then we shouldn't do that.

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Speaker 4: And to the TSA Administrative Credit by the way, who

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Speaker 4: I recently met with, they are making changes that don't

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Speaker 4: even require acts of Congress. But I'm trying to like

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Speaker 4: put more into place, you know, a program that makes

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Speaker 4: it easier women to try.

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Speaker 1: We talk a lot about mental health here because I

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Speaker 1: suffer from severe anxiety disorder and I'm I'm getting help,

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Speaker 1: I'm in therapy and I'm on medication, but I.

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Speaker 2: Really like to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: Have you had to confront any mental health challenges, either

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Speaker 1: yourself or someone close?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 4: My wife has been very open about just the postpartum

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Speaker 4: depression that she has endured during each child, and that

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Speaker 4: it almost it was almost it came earlier and it

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Speaker 4: was worse with each next child that we would have,

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Speaker 4: and by the third is as we were expecting our third,

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Speaker 4: we did something that we had not done with prior to,

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Speaker 4: which was, you know, really make a plan for like

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Speaker 4: what are we going to do once this comes cause

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Speaker 4: I think, you know, the first happens and it changes

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Speaker 4: everything when you're not just trying to raise a little

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Speaker 4: kid and his first parents, but you're also you know,

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Speaker 4: seeing the person you love, you know, struggle and suffer

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Speaker 4: through this, and I think we and many families are guilty.

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Speaker 4: Like the next pregnancy, you just hope, well, okay, well

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Speaker 4: that was like that's not going to happen again.

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Speaker 3: That was just like one off thing or a fluke.

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Speaker 4: And then when it happens twice, you're like, okay, this

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Speaker 4: is absolutely happening again. And so to put in place

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Speaker 4: a plan beforehand about like this is what we're going

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Speaker 4: to do, this is how we're going to make changes,

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Speaker 4: and especially on my end because my schedule is hell

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Speaker 4: on a spouse, yeah, to just learn to like not

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Speaker 4: take on as much and take off a lot more

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Speaker 4: time to help. But that was incredibly trying. As I said,

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Speaker 4: she's a professional, like she calls me the bread loser.

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Speaker 4: You know, in the relationships, she's the bread winner. We

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Speaker 4: can do this because she works hard at our job,

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Speaker 4: and I'm able to serve in this job because she

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Speaker 4: works very hard at her job.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's great. I'm glad, I asked.

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Speaker 1: Because we talk about mental health, it's not just but

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Speaker 1: what we're going through, but being support for other people

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Speaker 1: who who might be in our close circle, and how

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Speaker 1: important that is.

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Speaker 4: It's also hard you don't have anxiety to be supportive

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Speaker 4: of a you know, of a spouse who is going.

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Speaker 2: Through absolutely like that, and that is very.

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Speaker 4: Hard for whether it's men or women in theship when

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Speaker 4: the other is experiencing something that you've never experienced. You

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Speaker 4: don't know the right questions to ask. You don't know

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Speaker 4: what's helpful and what's not helpful. And sometimes you think

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Speaker 4: you're being helpful and you're being incredibly unhelpful.

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Speaker 3: So that that is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and we get to all of that, We

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Speaker 1: learn all of that by talking about it.

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Speaker 2: More so, I really appreciate you talking about that.

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Speaker 1: What do you do to stay sane in a time

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Speaker 1: of chaos and division and disinformation and stuff. For me,

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Speaker 1: that all really triggers my anxiety. So it's very difficult

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Speaker 1: because what I do for a living is literally the

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Speaker 1: thing that gives me anxiety. But what do you do

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Speaker 1: to stay sane and like not let all of this

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Speaker 1: affect you personally.

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Speaker 4: I've recently found in just the last six months that

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Speaker 4: my seven year old who loves baseball, playing catch with

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Speaker 4: him and just finding a couple of minutes every day

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Speaker 4: to play catch so much fun, because like, when you're

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Speaker 4: playing catch, you really cannot focus on anything else because

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Speaker 4: you're gonna throw a ball.

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Speaker 3: And it's gonna come right back at you.

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Speaker 4: And like he does not if I'm ye, if I

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Speaker 4: take out my phone for three seconds. I mean, he's

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Speaker 4: just as impatient as I am. He's like, daddy, Daddy,

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Speaker 4: throw the ball. And this Nelson he is obsessed with

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Speaker 4: the Yankees, and I don't. We have a family friend

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Speaker 4: who loves the Yankees, and he's like brainwashed, this kid

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Speaker 4: who should be a San Fransco Giant.

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Speaker 3: But when I throw the ball to what he likes

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Speaker 3: to do is he likes to catch pop flies.

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Speaker 4: And every time I throw the ball up, it's not

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Speaker 4: like I can just throw it and let him catch it.

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Speaker 4: I have to make every throw the last out of

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Speaker 4: the World Series for the Yankees, and I have to

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Speaker 4: be the announcer. So I throw the ball up and

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Speaker 4: I go It's a deep fly ball to center field.

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Speaker 4: Nelson Swallow is under it. This will end the game.

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Speaker 4: He catches it, the Yankees have won the World Series.

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Speaker 4: I do this one hundred times. And if I don't

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Speaker 4: do it once, if I like check out a textall

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Speaker 4: and she's like, Daddy, what are you doing? So that

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Speaker 4: is actually really relaxing. I've always run as well. I

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Speaker 4: can only just scheduleize usually get about three miles in

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Speaker 4: a day. But age is also you know, it's catching me,

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Speaker 4: like it catches all of us, and so I'm trying

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Speaker 4: to balance the running with the elliptical just for the

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Speaker 4: sake of my knees. I was a prosecutor in Oakland

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Speaker 4: and I was in the same office that Kamala Harris

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Speaker 4: got her start in. And there's a lake right next

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Speaker 4: to the courthouse. It's called Lake Merrit, and two laps

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Speaker 4: around Lake Merrit are basically a five k just over

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Speaker 4: three miles. And so every day when I was at

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Speaker 4: that office, even when I was in trial, right as

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Speaker 4: the judge would excuse the jury for lunch, I would

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Speaker 4: bolt out of the courtroom, go change, do two laps

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Speaker 4: around the lake and there was like this just kind

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Speaker 4: of like ratty shower on the tenth floor. I'd run

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Speaker 4: up there and then try not to look like I'd

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Speaker 4: just robbed a bank when I'd come into the courtroom

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Speaker 4: with all lady. If I didn't do that, I would

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Speaker 4: just go crazy. And it's the same way today. And

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Speaker 4: so my wife in the team that helps support what

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Speaker 4: I do. I think they all know that, like we

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Speaker 4: have to find time during the day to do that.

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Speaker 4: Otherwise it's kind of like a little kid who hasn't

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Speaker 4: been fed. You're like, Oh, you're just you're upset because

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Speaker 4: you're hungry.

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Speaker 1: That's that's that's your cranky. Yes, I get it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I want to do a lightning round with you. Oh boy, Okay,

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Speaker 1: who's your favorite Republican, either in elected office or not.

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Speaker 4: I would say my favorite Republican God, And if I

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Speaker 4: say this, they're gonna get primary and they're like, thanks, Swallwell.

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Speaker 4: I work really well with Andrew Garbarino from New York.

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Speaker 4: From Long Island, he's the chair of the Cyber Security Committee.

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Speaker 4: I'm the ranking member and he's just like easy, he's real. Again,

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Speaker 4: I think we share the same values on most issues.

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Speaker 4: He is what I think the highest compliment you can

399
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Speaker 4: pay a politician is that they're serious, but they don't

400
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Speaker 4: take themselves too seriously. Yeah, and I see that in

401
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Speaker 4: working with Andrew.

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Speaker 2: Great Midwest or California.

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Speaker 3: California all the way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that'll get you elected president.

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Speaker 1: Most embarrassing thing you ever did as a parent, there

406
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Speaker 1: are so many of them.

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Speaker 2: Most I got all day.

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Speaker 3: I once on a lawn. There's a lot On a long.

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Speaker 4: Flight, on like a triple seven, We're like back of

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Speaker 4: the plane and my youngest is just crying the whole time,

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Speaker 4: and nothing except walking him around makes him stop. But

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Speaker 4: you also like are pumping into the flight attendants and passengers. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and this is one of those Boeing triple sevens that

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Speaker 4: has like in the middle, like two bathrooms or like

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Speaker 4: two restrooms. Yeah, and then a bunch in the back,

416
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Speaker 4: and I looked around. I was like, Okay, I'm just

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Speaker 4: gonna sit down with him here. And we stayed for

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Speaker 4: like two minutes, and he started to fall asleep, and

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Speaker 4: then he was still sleep.

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Speaker 3: In five minutes, and I thought, you know what.

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Speaker 4: There's other bathrooms, Like, it's not the greatest to sit

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Speaker 4: in the bathroom.

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Speaker 3: I stayed in there for about forty five minutes, and I.

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Speaker 4: Felt really bad that, like there could be a line forming,

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Speaker 4: but I was. I felt good enough that there were

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Speaker 4: other bathrooms. But like nothing, the embarrassment of that, the

427
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Speaker 4: shame of that was nothing was greater than the need

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Speaker 4: to like shut that kid up.

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Speaker 1: Oh, totally. There is no shame when you have to

430
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Speaker 1: shut a kid up. You do what you have to do.

431
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Speaker 1: What's your favorite movie about politics?

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Speaker 3: That's a great one.

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Speaker 4: I I love The Adjustment Bureau.

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Speaker 3: Have you seen that? Yes?

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00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 2: I love that movie. Matt Damon Emily Blue Story.

436
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,919
Speaker 4: It's also about like like winning, isn't everything right? Like

437
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,679
Speaker 4: he the story starts with him losing, Yeah, and I

438
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 4: think he and he comes to realize that like love

439
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 4: and like family is like more important than just like

440
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Speaker 4: having the job.

441
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Speaker 2: Yeah.

442
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I don't know.

443
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,399
Speaker 4: I just like that because it really it sets your

444
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:24,199
Speaker 4: priorities straight.

445
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 1: That's a great one, and I never think of that

446
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,679
Speaker 1: one because I love political movies.

447
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 2: That's a great one.

448
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 3: Emily Blunt Damon, Emily Blunt.

449
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 2: If I remember, yeah, my friend Michael Kelly's in that movie. Yes,

450
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 2: that's right, Yeah, he's great.

451
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,919
Speaker 1: If given the chance, would you ever go into space

452
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 1: on a commercial space flight?

453
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 3: Yeah? I loved It'd be.

454
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 2: Fun too, like in a second.

455
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally, that's an easy one.

456
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 2: Will you run for president again?

457
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 3: You know, running with little kids was very hard.

458
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 4: And going back to thinking about your wife, I thought,

459
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,360
Speaker 4: we just come off the midterms, and by the way,

460
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 4: my wife will tell you, like the second Trump was elected,

461
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 4: as like everyone is crying at this party that we're hosting.

462
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 4: I pulled my wife aside and I looked at her

463
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 4: and I said, like, we have to do something about this,

464
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 4: and she's like, like, do what. I think I might

465
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 4: run for president. She's like, you're fucking crazy. We're not

466
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 4: running for president as nuts, And at this point we

467
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 4: don't have, you know, be kids, just married. And I

468
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 4: saw in the midterms that like nineteen of the couple

469
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 4: dozen seats that we've I'm sorry, twenty nine of the

470
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 4: couple dozen seats that we won to win the House

471
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:42,879
Speaker 4: where people in their forties and under. And I thought, okay,

472
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 4: like people are embracing kind of youth and optimism in

473
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 4: the next generation and the issue of gun violence, which

474
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 4: we talked about earlier, was so important me as a

475
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 4: former prosecutor and as a dad. At that point, I

476
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 4: thought that was the reason to run. I look back

477
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 4: as see my little girl cricket every time every night

478
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,360
Speaker 4: when she goes to best she has this like very

479
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 4: cute but very annoying request which she wants to look

480
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 4: at pictures of herself when she was little. And so

481
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 4: you have to like a picture she hasn't seen, because

482
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 4: he like, she gets upset if you show her.

483
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 3: Something she's already seen. And so I remember showing her.

484
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:24,639
Speaker 4: I'm going back to like October in the mid October

485
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 4: of twenty eighteen, and it's right before the midterms. She's

486
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 4: born in October twenty four and I'm like just scrolling

487
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 4: through and I see on October twenty six I'm at

488
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 4: a fundraiser, like a different time zone from where my

489
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 4: wife and kids are, and I was just crushed me.

490
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 3: And this was just a couple of weeks ago. I thought,

491
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 3: like what was I doing? Like why was that more

492
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 3: important than being with your kids?

493
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 4: And so that's just a long way of saying I

494
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 4: don't know how anyone can run with little kids and

495
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 4: be a good death, might be a great candidate awful dad,

496
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,880
Speaker 4: and being a good dad to me is more important.

497
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 3: So I guess I just say, you know, I'll continue

498
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 3: to run for.

499
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 4: The issues I care about and for the seats that

500
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 4: serve those issues. And right now I think this is

501
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 4: the best place to be. But I would never do

502
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 4: that again with with kids. It just it didn't feel right,

503
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 4: and it doesn't feel right as I say it out loud.

504
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 2: So great answer.

505
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: Okay, last question, it's the most important one culturally to me.

506
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 2: Yes, when is iced coffee season?

507
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 3: Every day? I will drink I.

508
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 2: Answer, that's the right answer.

509
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

510
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 5: And in Europe, like get it together, like what do

511
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 5: you what do we go to Europe on these Like

512
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 5: I'll be over there, you know, on a trip with

513
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 5: my colleagues and what's so. I have a hack for

514
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 5: you though, And my wife gets so honest when I

515
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 5: do this.

516
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 3: So you have to create an ice bath.

517
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 4: Okay, so you get the hot coffee because you don't

518
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 4: want to put the ice on the coffee because the

519
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 4: water is just gonna melt on the coffee and that

520
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 4: tastes right. Yeah, So I will ask any time I'm

521
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 4: in Europe, I will ask them for obviously the hot

522
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 4: coffee and then two cups of ice. So I'm gonna

523
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 4: pour very quickly the hot coffee into the ice bath

524
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 4: so to chill it, bring the temperature down, and then

525
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 4: I'm immediately going to take the ice bath coffee and

526
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 4: put it into the second cup of ice, and that's

527
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 4: my ice coffee.

528
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 2: That's good. But doing it that is good.

529
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 3: It's absurd when you're doing it and you're like spilling

530
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 3: a little bit. My wife's like, just drink regular coffee, Like,

531
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 3: why do you have to go through?

532
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: No, it's not absurd. What's absurd is not having ice

533
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: coffee Europe.

534
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 2: That's absurd.

535
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: Are okay, it's twenty twenty four people, what are we

536
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: even doing? Sure, Congressman Swallow, thanks so much. I'm really

537
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: glad we did this.

538
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 2: I appreciate it.

539
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 3: Same here.

540
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 2: Okay, stay tuned. We have a totally new.

541
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: Guest coming up after the break.

542
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 2: Today you get a twofer on off the cup.

543
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: You just heard from Congressman Eric Swalwell, a Democrat and

544
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 1: a friend, and now you'll hear from another friend, a

545
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: former Republican congressman. So we don't get to political here.

546
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 1: As you know, this is a break from politics. But

547
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 1: I wanted to have this next guest on because he's

548
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: also a friend. But more importantly than that, he's a

549
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 1: human being, a husband, a father, a son, a person.

550
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: That's what we do here. We talk as human beings.

551
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: So welcome to off the cup, Adam Kinsinger.

552
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 6: I was trying to hold my laughter. I'm like, wait,

553
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 6: I'm a person.

554
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 2: What you are?

555
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 6: I've never seen anybody say that. No they don't, they don't,

556
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 6: but they.

557
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 2: Do that about you.

558
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: You are just an avatar of either everything people think

559
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: is awful or the savior of the of the world.

560
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 6: I mean, I often tell people I'm like, at any

561
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 6: given time, half of the folks in the room hate

562
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 6: me and half like me.

563
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 2: So that's you know, that's me, my friend.

564
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 1: We are very We live in similar we occupy similar spaces,

565
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: that's right. I don't remember how we met exactly. I

566
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: know we were like two kids running around the hill,

567
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 1: but eventually we found we found some common cause in Syria.

568
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 2: I think that's probably what brought us.

569
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 6: Like I was I was.

570
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 2: Doing, I cared about Syria on in the press.

571
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 1: You cared about Syria on the hill, and I think

572
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 1: we just found each other through through Syria.

573
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 2: Is that right?

574
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 3: Yeah?

575
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 6: That is you were famous and I was just a

576
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 6: lowly you know, one or two term congressman at that time.

577
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 6: But yeah, that's what it was. We had mutual friends

578
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 6: that were really passionate about it. And you know, I

579
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 6: still believe that the Republican Party had a semblance of

580
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 6: like we care about world policy, but you know, and

581
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 6: I guess we did back then. So yeah, that's what

582
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 6: brought us together, just like seeing you know, this idea,

583
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 6: and I mean it's just only gotten worse in Syria

584
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 6: and everywhere else, like this just random bombing of children

585
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 6: and no you know, no attempt to go after military,

586
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 6: just just stuff like from the dark ages.

587
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 3: It's crazy.

588
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I remember I had been covering that war,

589
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: like from a geopolitical point of view, like telling anyone

590
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: who'd listened that this wasn't like every other skirmish, you know,

591
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: with proxies and has blud and Iran and Russia.

592
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 2: It was worse. I was trying to tell people this

593
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 2: was going to be bad.

594
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: But then a couple years into it, I had my son,

595
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: and suddenly I was looking at it as a mother.

596
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: Has fatherhood changed? You have a little a little boy.

597
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: Has fatherhood changed the way you see some of these

598
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: stories that you used to cover or I mean you

599
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: used to deal with as a as a member of Congress.

600
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, totally. Look, and this is just blatant honesty. When

601
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 6: I would see prior to having a kid, if you

602
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 6: see like pictures of dead kids, like, it wouldn't trigger me.

603
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 3: It wouldn't.

604
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 6: I mean, it wouldn't be something that I would look at.

605
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 6: And because I couldn't put myself in that in those shoes,

606
00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 6: like I knew that was obviously bad. I'm not like

607
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 6: a psychopath, but you just never felt it. And now

608
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 6: I have a kid who's he's almost three, and so

609
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 6: you're looking at whether it's Syria, whether it's you know, Ukraine, Gaza,

610
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 6: even though I'm supportive of what Israel's doing because they

611
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,239
Speaker 6: have to, but you know, you see that and all

612
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 6: of a sudden, you can put you put yourself in

613
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 6: that scene. Yeah, and it's like, so, my kid's name's

614
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 6: Christian and you're like, imagine if that was Christians, it's

615
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 6: unbearable and unthinkable. And yeah, I mean it's changed a lot.

616
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 2: Well, every kid's your kid then, yeah, totally completely.

617
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: I remember, do you remember there were a couple of

618
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,719
Speaker 1: viral videos or images from Syria.

619
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 2: One was a.

620
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: Turkish boy washed up yep, or a Syrian boy washed

621
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: up on the shores of Turkey. And then another was

622
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: a little boy in the back of an ambulance YEP.

623
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 3: His name was Omran.

624
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 2: Omran. That's exactly right.

625
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: And I mean we've you and I have done so

626
00:30:55,080 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: many things together for Syria, talks and interviews and all

627
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. But it wasn't cerebral then when

628
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: I saw those boys, right, it was that was my son.

629
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: And of course it isn't. My son is safe. We

630
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: are safe here, but yeah, it was. It became very

631
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: hard for me to divorce me being a mom from

632
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: that story. And I remember you and I were at

633
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: a movie, a screening of Cries from Syria YEP, which

634
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: is the toughest film I've ever watched, and I had

635
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: to leave halfway through to go throw up. I threw

636
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: up in the bathroom and then I was crying outside,

637
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: and I remember you you sort of found me. That

638
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: was really hard, and I don't I had to distance

639
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: myself a little bit. Have you had to maybe set

640
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: some boundaries as a parent.

641
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 6: No, I haven't, and there's probably a point at which

642
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 6: I should, but I kind of like consider it. It's

643
00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 6: my responsibility to you know. I've taken on to say,

644
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 6: like I'll absorb a lot of this so that I

645
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 6: can tell a story, you know, And I guess I

646
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 6: feel from the making a difference perspective, you feel like

647
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 6: sometimes a lonely voice in the wilderness because you just

648
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 6: you know people. It's like with Omron, you know that

649
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 6: the again, the kid in the back of the ambulance.

650
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 6: For like a couple months, that was the picture and

651
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 6: everybody wanted to intervene in Syria and then you forget it, right,

652
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 6: It's just human nature. Yeah, but I probably should put

653
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 6: some boundaries there because you just realize, like, after a while,

654
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 6: it takes a toll on you, right, and you begin

655
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 6: to think less of people are things are dark. I've

656
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 6: felt that, frankly in the last couple of years of

657
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 6: my time in politics.

658
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:37,959
Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't know.

659
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 6: Sometimes we need to be reminded that there is good

660
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 6: out there because you just don't get to see it,

661
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 6: and you don't.

662
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just it's Sam.

663
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: Well, my you don't need my advice, but my advice

664
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: to you is to set some boundaries for yourself, because

665
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: I also felt that responsibility as a journalist, especially for this,

666
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: no one else was doing, like you know, people had

667
00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: moved on, they had forgotten about it, they weren't covering it,

668
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: and sometimes it felt like I was the only one.

669
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: I wasn't but sometimes it felt like that, and I

670
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: felt like it was my duty to look at this stuff,

671
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: to share this stuff, to take it on, to be

672
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: the vessel for it. And it broke me really, So

673
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: you know what I'm going forward, Just think about that.

674
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 6: It's true and sometimes you come to realize, like you

675
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 6: don't have to absorb every image to know that what's

676
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 6: going on right. And it's tragic when I watch, you know,

677
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 6: when I look in Ukraine too, and just like you

678
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 6: watch these Russians firing missiles at whatever it can hit.

679
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 6: There's no intention to hit military targets. It's like, let's

680
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 6: terrorize citizens. And there's always a picture of a three

681
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 6: year old. So it's always a three year old too,

682
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 6: because I have a three year old, so that's what

683
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 6: you notice.

684
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 3: But it's always a.

685
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 6: Three year old being pulled out of the rebel right

686
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,479
Speaker 6: and his dad or Mom's there crying and it's just awful.

687
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

688
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: I we don't get political here, but your personal story,

689
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: like mine, is interwoven with the state of politics today.

690
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: And when you embarked on a political career, did you

691
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: ever imagine you'd end up here in apostate from a

692
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: party you were once a rising star of. I mean,

693
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: I've had the same trajectory, and it's it's been disorienting

694
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: at best.

695
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:13,879
Speaker 2: At times, it's also been pretty traumatizing.

696
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 6: Oh, it's only been traumatizing. I you know, I came

697
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 6: to realize. So I get out of Congress in January

698
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 6: of twenty twenty three. You know, obviously the last couple

699
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 6: of years was all the January sixth stuff. And I

700
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 6: mean it took me probably a good six months to

701
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 6: a year even to today to really come to recognize

702
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 6: the impact that that had on me. Because look, yes,

703
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 6: you don't go into politics ever expecting this. And I,

704
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 6: you know, I thought, maybe it's possible to take a

705
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 6: career ending vote. And I thought that would be something like,

706
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 6: you know, I'd vote to reform Social Security and I'd

707
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 6: lose my election because you know, because there were some

708
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 6: cuts or whatever, not this, and yeah, and so it

709
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 6: hits you, and you know, I guess the whole time

710
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 6: I was kind of going through that point, like I

711
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 6: assumed that the party was going to wake up, that

712
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 6: people were going to wake up. I still had an

713
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,919
Speaker 6: optimistic view of people that like everybody has a red

714
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 6: line they won't cross, and boy, this one, you know,

715
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 6: there's no way they can. And then you just come

716
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 6: to realize, Like, so it took a massive mental impact

717
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 6: on me. And I had noticed like out of Congress.

718
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 6: You know, I live in Texas now, I would very

719
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 6: rarely go out and I wasn't a hermit, but like

720
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 6: I would you know, the wife and I would usually

721
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 6: stay in to eat or if I went out to

722
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,399
Speaker 6: a store or something, i'd always wear a hat. And

723
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 6: you realize you're isolating yourself and and that's that's depression, right,

724
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,240
Speaker 6: that's depression that comes in. And there's only so much

725
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,919
Speaker 6: of your friends sending you texts that you find out

726
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 6: aren't your friends, of you know, family members saying things

727
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 6: to you, even if they're not disowning you. And I

728
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 6: had some disown me, Yeah, that are saying like you know,

729
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 6: in essence, you're you're doing the wrong thing. It takes

730
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 6: an it takes the deepest impact. And I use the

731
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 6: example of my favorite author is guy named Adam Makos,

732
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 6: and he writes books that are like about World War

733
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:10,760
Speaker 6: two battles generally, and he wrote about this tank in Germany.

734
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 6: It was an American tank and basically it was like

735
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 6: the only surviving tank in this battle, and when it

736
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 6: came out, it's like that. That's how I kind of

737
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 6: pictured myself, like beat up, you know, messed up, can

738
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 6: barely move, you know. Was it a heroic tank? Sure?

739
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 6: And I don't think what I did was heroic, but like,

740
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 6: you know, I survived it, but it doesn't mean I

741
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 6: was ready to go fight again. And yeah, so yeah,

742
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 6: that took a massive impact time for myself.

743
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,359
Speaker 1: Yeah that's a good way of saying it, because I've

744
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 1: in other ways. But similarly, I have survived this iteration

745
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: of the party and media and covering it, and I've.

746
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 2: Survived it, but I don't.

747
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: Feel like I'm in good shape to keep fighting it.

748
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: And I don't know what's ahead right, like what's going

749
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 1: to happen. So I'm trying to like resenter myself too well.

750
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 6: And I'm not sure people know this about you, but

751
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 6: you were like the and you'll laugh when I say it,

752
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 6: but it was true. You were like the kind of

753
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 6: young star of the GOP back in the day, Like

754
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 6: you would travel to places like get speeches.

755
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 2: Yes, you know, you were.

756
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 6: The one on TV. You were on a not firing line,

757
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 6: but what was it across fire and and you were like,

758
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 6: you know, in the old Republican Party, you were this

759
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 6: kind of what would be Charlie Kirk today but not

760
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 6: psycho and not a sociopath, and you know, leading that

761
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 6: youth movement. And so you know, you had to go

762
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 6: from basically in essence that rock star status to making

763
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 6: the same decision I had to make, which is like

764
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 6: I can't go beyond this. And you were always like

765
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 6: the You were like the open atheist, like kind of trendy,

766
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 6: edgy like Republican that everybody wanted. And and so I don't, like,

767
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 6: I'm not even sure how many of your people listening

768
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 6: remember that about you, but I do. You know, when

769
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 6: we were young, you were the you were the rock star.

770
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,760
Speaker 2: It feels like a long time ago, it wasn't. Actually.

771
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I was very conservative, I thought, but

772
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,399
Speaker 1: I was seen inside the Republican Party as this sort

773
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: of like as you say, like edgy, young, up and comer.

774
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: I brought some intellectualism. I wasn't doing populism, but I

775
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: was also kind of you know, cool, socially interesting or whatever.

776
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: And then yeah, Trump happened and my whole party changed

777
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: around me, just as it did you, and I just

778
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 1: watched so many people I thought I knew and really

779
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,359
Speaker 1: respected just leave. Leave and go with him, Go do

780
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: all the things, abandon the conservatism, the thing that was

781
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: most important to you and I, the conservatism was completely jettisoned.

782
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 1: And it was I mean, yeah, it's been a total

783
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 1: mind fuck, but I've stayed myself the whole way through.

784
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: And I've been lucky in my media career that you know,

785
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 1: whether it's CNN or somewhere else, they've left let me

786
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 1: do that. They've let me evolve, and they didn't keep

787
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 1: me in a box of the conservative for right pundit.

788
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 2: They let me just stay me.

789
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 3: Yep.

790
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 1: So that was actually great because I didn't have to change,

791
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't have.

792
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 2: But I could have been without a job.

793
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: I very easily could have been without a job doing

794
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: what I did.

795
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 6: And I feel, you know, the thing I as you're talking,

796
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 6: I realize, like I still battle is you know this, Look,

797
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 6: everybody needs to belong to a group. I mean, there

798
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 6: is nobody among us that's like, I'm fine if nobody

799
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:37,479
Speaker 6: likes me. That's not true.

800
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 2: That's a BS right, it's a biological need.

801
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 6: It is yep, yep. And so basically, when you, in

802
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 6: essence are excommunicated from the GOP, you've got to find,

803
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 6: you know, like minded people. And one of the things

804
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,919
Speaker 6: I still struggle with is like, you know, I'm looking

805
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 6: here saying, yeah, I'm allies with the left right now,

806
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 6: you know, because of this like unnatural like alliance right

807
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 6: to defeat Trump. Yeah, and but I actually think trump

808
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,760
Speaker 6: Ism is going to go on even if he loses.

809
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,879
Speaker 6: And I feel like, okay, but there's it's not really

810
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 6: imposter syndrome. But I'm like, at some point the left

811
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 6: or the or the center left is going to be like, yeah,

812
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 6: but Kensinger's still conservative and so eventually jettison me and

813
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 6: I'm gonna have to go through this all over.

814
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:18,439
Speaker 2: Again, and they will.

815
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 6: Yeah.

816
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I've had to remind people true, you know,

817
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: when when Liz Cheney was the hero and and what

818
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: I think what she did was was heroic. I had

819
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 1: to remind people like Liz Cheney is one of the

820
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: most conservative people I know. She's to the right of

821
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: the right of me in many ways. And there's this

822
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 1: tendency to see people like you or I are Liz

823
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: Cheney who does avow Trump as like moderating to the middle,

824
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 1: and in fact we reject him because he is not

825
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:51,439
Speaker 1: conservative enough.

826
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's nothing conservative about him at all. Yeah, yeah,

827
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 6: I mean, it's just this nationalism. But it's like, you know, yeah,

828
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 6: without get the politics of it. A country needs a

829
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 6: right and left movement to be healthy, and we don't

830
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 6: have that right now at all.

831
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:07,919
Speaker 2: No, we don't.

832
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 1: You mentioned being rebuked by your family. This is a

833
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: wild story. You've told it, so I'm not sharing anything

834
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 1: you haven't told. But eleven members of your family sent

835
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: you a letter accusing you of being the quote devil's army. So,

836
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 1: oh my, god, oh my, what a disappointment you are

837
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: to us and to God. And you have embarrassed the

838
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: Kinsinger family name all because you were one of ten

839
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 1: Republican members to vote to impeach Trump. The author was

840
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 1: your cousin, who also sent it to your father, and

841
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: then several other Republican members in Illinois because she wanted

842
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: you to be shunned. It is one thing to be

843
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 1: trolled online by strangers. We've all been there. It's quite

844
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: another to get it from your own family.

845
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:51,879
Speaker 2: What was that like? Boy?

846
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:56,760
Speaker 6: You know, look I I when that happened. I tried

847
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 6: to laugh it off, and it's again, it's one of

848
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 6: those things. It takes an impact over time that you

849
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 6: don't recognize. But yeah, I mean, look here, here's the

850
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 6: irony of that is. You know, I would go visit

851
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 6: my folks when I lived in Illinois is probably an

852
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 6: hour and a half from them, and I would go

853
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 6: visit them once a month or so. And so the

854
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 6: day I happened to go down and visit them is

855
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 6: the day this registered or certified letter showed up. Okay,

856
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 6: So I open it up and I start reading, Oh my,

857
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 6: and my first thought is, oh, they're going to say,

858
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 6: you know, you've made us happy, You've done the right thing, right.

859
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 2: Made us proud. Yeah.

860
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:28,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I.

861
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 6: Read that and it's just like you know, like sometimes

862
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 6: if you see something happened, time kind of slows down. Yeah,

863
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 6: it was that. As I'm reading it, and I'm like,

864
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 6: I can't believe I'm reading this. And these are people

865
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 6: that share you know, some of them share my same

866
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:45,240
Speaker 6: last name, and so I to this day I haven't

867
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,879
Speaker 6: forgiven them, and that's a problem of me, Like, that's

868
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 6: a me problem. I need to forgive them for myself.

869
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 6: But you add on to that, you know, just so

870
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 6: my close family is all really good. My immediate family

871
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 6: and then my cousins and uncles and stuff, they're but

872
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 6: I know they disagree with me. And so you sit

873
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 6: here with that like pending, like that feeling of like

874
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 6: that's going on, and even some of my close even

875
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 6: one of my siblings, there's a little bit of that tension,

876
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 6: you know. But on top of that, I got so

877
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 6: two years ago, I get a text from the guy

878
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 6: who flew with in Iraq, which is about the closest

879
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 6: bonds you can make, who just said he's a shamed

880
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 6: to have ever flown with me. Yeah because of what?

881
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 6: Because I don't like Trump? Okay, fine?

882
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 2: Did that hurt worse than your family?

883
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 6: Yeah? That hurt worse than anything. That one really kissed

884
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:29,919
Speaker 6: me off?

885
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 2: Actually yeah, and respond yeah I did.

886
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 6: I basically I told him to f himself and I

887
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 6: blocked him right, And and then three four months ago,

888
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 6: the first Trump assassination attempt. I had a guy that

889
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 6: I worked with after I got out of college that's

890
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:48,919
Speaker 6: always been a good friend that told me that it's

891
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 6: my fault that, you know, they tried to kill Trump

892
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,439
Speaker 6: because of what I'm saying about him, and don't even

893
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 6: bother reaching out to him if I'm going to keep

894
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 6: doing this. And I said, you know, now, don't worry.

895
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 6: I'll take the first step and never reach out. But

896
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 6: like that's what And you know, families, it's not just

897
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 6: you and I having to deal with that, Like there's

898
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 6: families that have dealt with that all the time. But

899
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 6: like we can't pretend that. I would always pretend like

900
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 6: we're actually convinced myself that that doesn't have an impact.

901
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 3: But it really does.

902
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 2: I mean, it really does.

903
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 3: Brutal.

904
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 1: I was coming up as a young writer in politics

905
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 1: and my biological father, with whom I didn't really have

906
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: a good relationship, or much of one at all. I

907
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: rarely heard from him, maybe once a year wrote me

908
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,359
Speaker 1: an email just to say how disappointed he was in

909
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 1: my politics, and then he called me a hack. And

910
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:42,399
Speaker 1: I was probably twenty five. That's messing and I just man,

911
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 1: was I angry for a long time? Yeah, for a

912
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,760
Speaker 1: long time, and then he died without much closure. Before

913
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 1: he died, he sent an email apologizing for some of

914
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 1: the things that he did, and I have since forgiven him.

915
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 1: I forgave him before he died. It was important for

916
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: me to do that for me and for him. But

917
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 1: it made me really angry for a long time, and

918
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 1: it hurt. It hurt for a long time because there's

919
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 1: nothing like there's nothing like that.

920
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 6: There isn't And the thing is is, like, you know,

921
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:13,359
Speaker 6: I guess we all have to look at our own

922
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 6: behavior patterns and say, where are we doing that to

923
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 6: people that we don't recognize? But you know, your dad

924
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,479
Speaker 6: telling you that, or my co pilot and Iraq telling

925
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,839
Speaker 6: me that, Like, what does that do besides give them

926
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 6: a quarter of a second of dopamine? Hit to know

927
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 6: that since you disagree with them and your what you

928
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 6: believe makes them mad, they can inflict that pain on

929
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 6: you for a second. They end up coming out of

930
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:42,359
Speaker 6: that even hollower. But it's like I to this day,

931
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 6: and you know, I even had to blow up with

932
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 6: a really good friend recently where we've we made up

933
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 6: but he basically was pissed off because I spoke at

934
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 6: the DNC for Kamala. I told him, I said, listen,

935
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 6: I yelled at him. Actually I kind of went off

936
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 6: the edge on it. But I'm like, don't you like

937
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,760
Speaker 6: you know me? You know that I'm doing this because

938
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 6: I believe it, not because there's like I'm gonna make

939
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 6: money by doing this or whatever. It's like, because I

940
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 6: believe it, so at least give me the courtesy of saying, okay,

941
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 6: well you believe it at least. And he came around.

942
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:16,879
Speaker 6: But man, I was I can see like the raw

943
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 6: feelings I get because I was ready to jettison that

944
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 6: twenty year friendship out of that.

945
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 1: Well, because you and I take this personally too. Politics

946
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 1: is personal for us. We care deeply about the policy

947
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 1: and the movement and everything it could and should be.

948
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 2: So it it takes a toll.

949
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: I believe me, I am right there with you, and

950
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: I know mentally how difficult it can be. Before I

951
00:46:57,719 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 1: get to a sort of lightning round, I have a question.

952
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: You fly planes people don't know, and I see you

953
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 1: flying with your adorable son, and every time I see that,

954
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 1: I think, oh my god, this makes me so nervous again,

955
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:19,959
Speaker 1: because every kid is my kid, and if I would

956
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,359
Speaker 1: trust anyone to fly me anywhere, it would be you.

957
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 2: But do you feel like.

958
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: Taking fewer risks now that you have a kid and

959
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:31,800
Speaker 1: is flying one of those.

960
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 2: Risks to you?

961
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 6: That's a really good question. So I can't let myself

962
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 6: think about it because ultimately, I know I'm a good pilot.

963
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 6: I know I fly safe. But I've also you know,

964
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 6: I've been in twenty some years of flying, particular military flying.

965
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 6: I've had emergencies, and you know, I've I lost an engine.

966
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 6: I've learned that if you're talking to non pilots, you

967
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 6: have to specify that lost an engine means an engine quit,

968
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 6: not that it fell.

969
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 2: Off right right.

970
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 6: So I didn't know that much. I had that happen

971
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 6: to me about a year ago on the plane I

972
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 6: own now. And but thankfully it's a two engine plane,

973
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 6: so it was fine.

974
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,359
Speaker 2: But the who was on it with you just me that.

975
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 6: Thank god, it was just fine. And but yeah, I mean, look,

976
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 6: I can't let myself ponder it because you can sit

977
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,399
Speaker 6: there and be like, oh my gosh, it's Wendy And

978
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 6: you know I've had batlantis before. And go on and

979
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 6: on and on, and that's just part of disciplining yourself

980
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,919
Speaker 6: as a pilot in general. Is like you can freak

981
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 6: yourself out in the cockpit. You really could, because you're.

982
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 2: Like freak out right now just hearing You're.

983
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 6: Like, it's just me in here. What if I forget

984
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 6: how to land? And that was my old joke when

985
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 6: we'd have people on the plane with the military, I'd

986
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 6: be like, man, I forgot what I have to do

987
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 6: when I land. Of course, none of them believe that,

988
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 6: except occasionally you get one that would be a little nervous.

989
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 6: So so generally my risk taking no. And I think

990
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 6: part of the problem is like I really feel like

991
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 6: I should be quieter on the politics because of the

992
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 6: death threats, you know now that I have a family,

993
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 6: But I refuse to be. And I don't know if

994
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 6: that's reckless or if that's like the right thing.

995
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 2: To do with that too.

996
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, like we've been swatted here and nobody knows my

997
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 6: address here, but somebody found it, and you know, that

998
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 6: kind of stuff happens. And I do think about like, okay,

999
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 6: if I get called back into active duty, if like

1000
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 6: World War three kicks off, you know, in any other

1001
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 6: time I would have been excited to go. Now not

1002
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 6: so much because I have a kid. And also, you know,

1003
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 6: as much as I definitely would love him to go

1004
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 6: be in the military, that has a very different feel

1005
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 6: now too. It's like, oh man, he's got to going

1006
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 6: to the military. So I guess I don't take less risks,

1007
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 6: but I am more cognizant of it, and I recognize

1008
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 6: that it's not just me anymore. You know, if I

1009
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 6: was flying a plane twenty years ago and crash, whatever,

1010
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 6: it's just me, right, But now there's more to it.

1011
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 1: I'm realizing. I don't think I've ever told you the story.

1012
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,959
Speaker 1: I was on a flight. It was a Jet Blue flight.

1013
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 1: I was leaving Las Vegas for New York City. It's

1014
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,879
Speaker 1: twenty twelve, and we take off. We get up immediately,

1015
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: planes starts going sort of up down, side to side.

1016
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 1: We lost hydraulics, okay, which I know you would know

1017
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: what that means a.

1018
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 6: Huge deal, but sure, go ahead, shut the fuck up.

1019
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 2: It's just not listen.

1020
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:17,319
Speaker 1: Excuse me, excuse me. We had a full tank. We

1021
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 1: couldn't land, so for five hours we were like that.

1022
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 2: It sucks.

1023
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 1: We nicknamed it the vomit commet because it was and

1024
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 1: finally we land and you know, emergency vehicles everywhere.

1025
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 2: Blah blah blah.

1026
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,359
Speaker 1: Anyway, a couple months later, I get a call from

1027
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 1: the History Channel and they're like, Hi, we're doing a

1028
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: show called Engineering Disasters and we want to feature your flight.

1029
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 2: Will you come on?

1030
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 6: Holy crap?

1031
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 1: I'm like, was it a disaster? And they were like, yeah,

1032
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 1: it was bad. You don't even know how bad it was.

1033
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1034
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 6: Maybe that was a lot worse than I think then

1035
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 6: because I'm like, just losing hydraulics whatever, but that sounds scary.

1036
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 2: Then it was not great.

1037
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 1: Okay, quick lightning round. Who's your favorite Democrat in the House?

1038
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 6: Uh okay, let me try to be quick. Does that

1039
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 6: have to be a current one? No, Stephanie Murphy I

1040
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 6: really liked was she's out now, but I was with

1041
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 6: her on the committee. She's just like a she was

1042
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 6: just really she was moderate, which I respected, but just

1043
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 6: really smart. So she's one of mine. I actually get

1044
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 6: along really well with like Eric Swallwell stuff like that too.

1045
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 2: Oh same, we've had him on the pod. Yep, top

1046
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 2: gun or top gun, Maverick boy.

1047
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:39,720
Speaker 6: That you're putting me in a tough position.

1048
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 2: I knew this would be the one.

1049
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 6: Look, I'm gonna have to go Top Gun just because

1050
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:50,320
Speaker 6: it's the original eighties Reagan. But Maverick was really good.

1051
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 6: It was I mean, people ask me sometimes was it realistic?

1052
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 6: I'm like it was more realistic than the first Top

1053
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 6: Gun and the only thing that wasn't you know, the

1054
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 6: mission was kind of weird, right, like we got to

1055
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 6: drop this bomb in a hole, but like it was

1056
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:07,760
Speaker 6: really that one had that was a really I loved Maverick.

1057
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 6: It was really good, but I'm gonna go with the original.

1058
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 1: My next question was, what's a part or scene in

1059
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,479
Speaker 1: either of those movies that's just totally wrong or would

1060
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: never happen.

1061
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:17,320
Speaker 2: You're saying the mission in Top Gun Maverick.

1062
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I mean I guess you can see a

1063
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 6: theory in which that mission could happen, but uh, but yeah,

1064
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:26,320
Speaker 6: it was a little unrealistic. I think the thing is Okay,

1065
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:29,399
Speaker 6: So at the very beginning of regular Top Gun, when

1066
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 6: he's like I'm gonna hit the brakes, he'll fly right by, Yeah,

1067
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 6: that would never happen, right, ok, Because if you're chasing

1068
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:39,279
Speaker 6: somebody and you see him slow down, you're gonna slow down,

1069
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 6: or you can do like a lag roll where you

1070
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 6: kind of go inverted to lose, to lose distance and

1071
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 6: stay on him. But in that movie, he's like somehow

1072
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 6: hits these brakes, you know, and the guys follow them's

1073
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 6: like oh shit, and just let you know, and then

1074
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:56,799
Speaker 6: he's gone. Right, that's not very realistic. Maybe the Iraqi

1075
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 6: or Iranian military would fly right by, but you know,

1076
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 6: the Russians, as bad as they are, they probably could

1077
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 6: handle that.

1078
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 2: I love that.

1079
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,959
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm so glad. I asked, what's your favorite band?

1080
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 3: Uh, I'm uh One Room.

1081
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:11,439
Speaker 6: I'm kind of into One Republic right now.

1082
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 2: They're great, so talented.

1083
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 6: He really is, and he's a good dude, you know.

1084
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 6: That's the thing is like, uh, so I grew up

1085
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 6: really strict Baptist and which I'm not anymore and my

1086
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,439
Speaker 6: family isn't. But like we couldn't even listen to rock

1087
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 6: music one of those oh yeah, it was like Footloos

1088
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 6: really was, and uh, this is kind of a cult

1089
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 6: and uh but you know we were always told like

1090
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 6: all those you know, a CDC stands for anti Christians

1091
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,360
Speaker 6: defeating Christ and all that. And now I love seeing

1092
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,280
Speaker 6: these old guys. They're like at the VA and stuff

1093
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 6: and helping people. I'm like, you know, they weren't that evil. No, no,

1094
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 6: they were They're just guys.

1095
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 1: Yeah. What would your death row meal be or your

1096
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 1: final meal? Let's pretend you're not actually on death row.

1097
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:58,800
Speaker 6: It's got to be pizza. I mean, I just love pizza.

1098
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 6: Oh like, yeah, I have to discipline how much I.

1099
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 2: Eat it, but it would what's your favorite kind of pizza?

1100
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 6: Uh So my rule is it's got If it was

1101
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:10,319
Speaker 6: pizza in the eighties, it can be pizza today. So

1102
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 6: I don't care where it comes from. But like pepperoni, sausage, olives,

1103
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 6: stuff like that. You start putting pineapple and ham and

1104
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,359
Speaker 6: experimental bacon and stuff, I'm out.

1105
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:20,839
Speaker 3: I'm out.

1106
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 2: But if it was no one wants salad.

1107
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:26,439
Speaker 6: But if it was in the eighties now, the one

1108
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 6: exception is I like kalapana on pizza, and so I'll

1109
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 6: make that exception. But otherwise, got to have been pizza

1110
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:32,800
Speaker 6: in the eighties.

1111
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: Last question is deeply, deeply important to me. When is

1112
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:39,720
Speaker 1: iced coffee season?

1113
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 6: Oh, I don't know. I'm sorry, I'm not a big

1114
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:47,760
Speaker 6: ice coffee fan. But that said, I've had ice coffee.

1115
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 6: I drink it occasionally, and it starts literally right now.

1116
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:55,280
Speaker 6: I think it starts the beginning of October. No, I'm sorry,

1117
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 6: because iced I'm thinking like lattes at that point, so

1118
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:01,800
Speaker 6: ice coffee season, summer, and especially now that I'm in Texas,

1119
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,840
Speaker 6: like it's like June July, right.

1120
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 2: Because July is your final answer, that's where.

1121
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 6: I'm gonna stick. Yeah, that's kind of a dumb question.

1122
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 6: I'll be honest with you. I know, I'm sorry. We

1123
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 6: can't be friends anymore.

1124
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 1: We're not friends. We're in a fight. No, that's, of

1125
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:19,720
Speaker 1: course the wrong answer. The right answer is you're round

1126
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:20,399
Speaker 1: year round.

1127
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:22,240
Speaker 3: Oh, okay, year round.

1128
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 1: But that's okay a politician. I will not be personally

1129
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:33,839
Speaker 1: insulted that you don't even like the question. You're lucky

1130
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:34,360
Speaker 1: we're friends.

1131
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's right, that's right for now. But I'll be

1132
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:38,839
Speaker 6: in the penalty box all right.

1133
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:40,479
Speaker 2: Adam Kinzinger, thank you so much.

1134
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 6: You bet good to see it.

1135
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:43,839
Speaker 2: I appreciate it. This was really fun.

1136
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:44,279
Speaker 3: Thank care.

1137
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 1: Next week on Off the cop a conversation with Molly

1138
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:49,920
Speaker 1: jong Fast.

1139
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 7: I don't know how dark you want to go here?

1140
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 2: Dark? Okay?

1141
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:57,319
Speaker 7: This was years ago, maybe ten years ago, there were

1142
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 7: sort of two women writers who were in this this

1143
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 7: world that doesn't really exist anymore, that were like these

1144
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 7: sort of feminist but kind of anti feminist feminists.

1145
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 2: Wait, I think I know who you're going to say.

1146
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 1: Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as.

1147
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:14,840
Speaker 2: Part of the recent Choice Network.

1148
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 1: I'm Your Hostess Cupp editing and sound designed by Derek Clements.

1149
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Messie Cup, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman.

1150
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 1: If you like Off the Cup, please rate and review

1151
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, follow, or subscribe for new

1152
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 1: episodes every Wednesday.