Speaker 1: As a child. In the late nineteen seventies, Kevin Dykes
Speaker 1: accidentally killed his best friend when they were playing with
Speaker 1: a gun, sending him to Juvie for involuntary manslaughter. When
Speaker 1: he got out, he turned to petty drug dealing in Compton, California.
Speaker 1: Fast forward to nineteen eighty six. After a terrible assault
Speaker 1: that led to a four month hospital stint, Kevin continued
Speaker 1: peddling drugs from his temporary wheelchair for two men named
Speaker 1: Slim and Hondo. Kevin rented a bed and a trailer
Speaker 1: home in his landlord's driveway, where Slim and Hondo occasionally
Speaker 1: hit weapons. That June, two incidents occurred just days apart,
Speaker 1: resulting in one murder and two attempted murders. The first
Speaker 1: during a party when Kevin booted his friend Ephram for
Speaker 1: being belligerently drunk. Slim and Hondo followed he from stabbing
Speaker 1: him several times. A neighborhood mother, Missus Bradley, came to
Speaker 1: Ephram's aid, only to get stabbed as well. Kevin intervened,
Speaker 1: jumping from his wheelchair to stop the assault before it
Speaker 1: turned fatal. A few days later, Slim and Honda accused
Speaker 1: Kevin's friend Otis Perry of stealing their gun from Kevin's
Speaker 1: trailer home, stabbing him eighty one times. Unable to stop
Speaker 1: the murderous frenzy and fearing for his own life, Kevin
Speaker 1: helped them clean up before going to the police a
Speaker 1: few hours later. A few days after that, Kevin was
Speaker 1: arrested for cocaine possession and put into a special holding
Speaker 1: tank for state's witnesses. Then three jailhouse snitches claimed that
Speaker 1: Kevin had confessed to all three attacks in exchange for
Speaker 1: leniency in their own cases. Kevin Dykes is serving life
Speaker 1: in prison on the word of three notorious jailhouse snitches.
Speaker 1: This is Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm.
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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flomp. Today. We
Speaker 1: have an incredible story, so we're going to get right
Speaker 1: into it, and I'm going to introduce you first to
Speaker 1: Stephen K. Houser. He's a criminal defense attorney representing the
Speaker 1: star of this episode, Kevin Dike. Stephen, Welcome to Wrongful Conviction.
Speaker 3: Thank you, glad to be here.
Speaker 1: And Kevin Dykes is on the phone with us from prison,
Speaker 1: and I hope we'll be able to do something about
Speaker 1: his situation because it is awful. Kevin. I'm sorry you're
Speaker 1: here or where you are, but I'm happy you're here
Speaker 1: with us today. So thank you for being here.
Speaker 4: Thank you for the opportory.
Speaker 1: This case goes back to Compton nineteen eighty six, and
Speaker 1: it's got It's got so much that you'll think of
Speaker 1: talking about a movie script that would be too much
Speaker 1: to be believed, except for it's real. It's got gangster's
Speaker 1: name Hondo and Slim. It's got drugs. It's got snitches
Speaker 1: that ended up on sixty minutes. It's got laws that changed,
Speaker 1: and victims who testified that this was not the guy
Speaker 1: who did it. It's got a guy who's in prison
Speaker 1: for three and a half decades with no evidence against
Speaker 1: him except the testimony of jail house snitches who have
Speaker 1: recanted their testimony. It is nuts, but it's true. So
Speaker 1: let's get right into it, and Kevin, let's start with
Speaker 1: you going back to your youth, because you grew up
Speaker 1: in Compton.
Speaker 4: Right, Yes, I grew up good too, Gray at home
Speaker 4: in the pop Water Sport. I actually had a real
Speaker 4: good up bringing. In two, I think it's actually three,
Speaker 4: I ended up actually killing my best friend. I went
Speaker 4: for a CHERI mayor flather and I will stick at.
Speaker 3: YAS And for those of you who don't know, YA
Speaker 3: or CYA is the California Youth Authority.
Speaker 1: As I unders standard, your friend's death was entirely accidental,
Speaker 1: just two kids who made a big mistake playing with
Speaker 1: a gun. But they still sent you away to juvie
Speaker 1: for involuntary manslaughter. And I also understand that you harbor
Speaker 1: a lot of guilt about this. Even though the family
Speaker 1: forgave you, yes, just family.
Speaker 4: They stayed directly across the street from my family, even
Speaker 4: to the they still feel on the same street. Although
Speaker 4: the family had forgiven me, written me letters and will
Speaker 4: come to see me. When I got out, I saw
Speaker 4: what idea to that family, and I didn't know how
Speaker 4: to propter. Although my mother and my father and my
Speaker 4: grandmother and all kinds of people were trying to help me.
Speaker 4: I didn't know how to ask for their help that
Speaker 4: I actually needed, so I got de gris root de
Speaker 4: grit to the game.
Speaker 1: So the guilt kind of derailed your potential, it seems.
Speaker 1: And after Juvie, you start dealing drugs and looking outside
Speaker 1: of what seemed like a supportive home for what it
Speaker 1: was that you felt you needed, acceptance, identity, whatever, out
Speaker 1: in the street. So fast forward to January nineteen eighty six.
Speaker 1: Some other really bad stuff happens.
Speaker 4: January eighteenth, So I try to cheating them me. They
Speaker 4: try to cheat them in front of my house. I
Speaker 4: followed them. They ran me through a brick wall and
Speaker 4: he both my hit and smashed my films. So I
Speaker 4: went at the hospital eighteenth in knowledge and May forties.
Speaker 4: When I got out of the hospital, I was in
Speaker 4: a wheelchair and I had a walker, and I was
Speaker 4: all to a therapy.
Speaker 1: Yes, someone tried to kidnap Kevin, so you fought them off,
Speaker 1: and they ended up hitting you with their car against
Speaker 1: a brick wall, broke your hips, snapped your pelvis, and
Speaker 1: put you in the hospital for four months. I mean,
Speaker 1: you're lucky to even be alive, and we haven't even
Speaker 1: gotten to the part that has you locked up right now. Okay,
Speaker 1: so it's May nineteen eighty six. You're temporarily in this
Speaker 1: wheelchair doing physical therapy and dealing drugs for these two
Speaker 1: mid level management drug dealers named Slim and Hondo.
Speaker 3: Slim and Hondo decided that they were going to take
Speaker 3: over the local drug sales. I believe they helped Kevin
Speaker 3: and some of his friends with small amounts of cocaine
Speaker 3: to sell in the neighborhood, and they would periodically show
Speaker 3: up and I guess resupply the local sellers, including Kevin
Speaker 3: and Kevin.
Speaker 1: You were renting a place to stay from a man
Speaker 1: named mister Bryce. You were renting a bed in this
Speaker 1: mobile home that sat in his driveway, right.
Speaker 4: Yes, I was a fan and mister Bryce's mobile hole.
Speaker 4: We had a mobile home. They had like six days,
Speaker 4: the shower and all that stuff inside. It was parked
Speaker 4: in the driveway. Sometimes my friends us supposed to stay.
Speaker 4: They had like six places, well, sleeping there.
Speaker 3: So Oltis is coming in sleeping there, and Otis is
Speaker 3: Otis Perry who occasionally stayed at mister Bryce's mobile home.
Speaker 3: And he's the one that was eventually stabbed by Slim
Speaker 3: and Hondo for taking the gun that they had left
Speaker 3: in the trailer. The night that these two attempted murders
Speaker 3: occurred outside a party at mister Bryce's house.
Speaker 4: Yes, also, my cousin Pam was inside of the mobile home.
Speaker 4: I was inside the house where the party was there
Speaker 4: when the fighting. When the fight after, so I didn't
Speaker 4: know this was out there at the time. And I
Speaker 4: know Slim pulls up. They knew mister Bryce didn't allow
Speaker 4: gus in his house, but they here to gun in
Speaker 4: the mobile home. Well, my cousin and OSTs, but I
Speaker 4: still didn't know nothing about that at that time.
Speaker 1: Okay, so now the stage is finally set for these
Speaker 1: crimes to take place. This is we're talking June nineteenth,
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six. There's a little party going on at
Speaker 1: mister Bryce's Your friend Otis and your cousin Pam are
Speaker 1: in the mobile home in the driveway. Slim and Hondo,
Speaker 1: your bosses, come to hang out, but out of respect
Speaker 1: for mister Bryce, they leave their gun in the mobile home.
Speaker 1: Then your friend Ephim is at the party and he
Speaker 1: is drunk. To say the least, is my older homeboy.
Speaker 4: He was young beingligerate and uh messing with the females.
Speaker 4: I was up in there grabbing drinks that didn't belong
Speaker 4: to him, and I saw man go down to the
Speaker 4: pool man keep back. I got and he kept on.
Speaker 4: So I got pissed off and I hit him once.
Speaker 4: And when I hit him, hand slam both of them attacking.
Speaker 4: Because of them, I here's what they see it, he said.
Speaker 4: I didn't understand why did they get involved in there?
Speaker 4: Here's what they said, because I should barely walk. They
Speaker 4: people were taking advantage of my disability.
Speaker 1: Okay, so your drug bosses are sticking up for you,
Speaker 1: but then they go way beyond what you would ever
Speaker 1: want them to do.
Speaker 4: Yes, So once I stuck both of them attacking, I
Speaker 4: got them to stop sold instantly he left and then
Speaker 4: they chased him down the street. They caught him at
Speaker 4: the end of the corner. Once I got down there,
Speaker 4: I saw that he was actually stabbing. When I hollered,
Speaker 4: Hondo leaving alone, Hondo, He's little step and saw me.
Speaker 4: But when he saw me, he saw Miss Bradley behind me.
Speaker 4: Miss Bradley is my older home was mother. When she
Speaker 4: looked up and saw that it was her son, she
Speaker 4: tried to turn and run. He ran her down, grabbed
Speaker 4: her by her dress, and saw her stabbing her. I
Speaker 4: hopped my way to him and grabbed him to see
Speaker 4: him off of her, and once I was holdingly, she
Speaker 4: got loose. We gave you some time to get up,
Speaker 4: and then I got to convinced him to get into
Speaker 4: the car and drove them off. I drove off to
Speaker 4: a motel, and then I came back to check on
Speaker 4: Ephraim and miss Bradley, but the amlas already came in.
Speaker 4: There was a hospital.
Speaker 1: So you basically saved Missus Bradley and Ephraim from being
Speaker 1: murdered by slimming Hondo by convincing them to stop stabbing
Speaker 1: them and drive away from the scene. But this incident
Speaker 1: on June nineteenth is what becomes two charges of attempted
Speaker 1: murder that gets stuck on you. The guy confined to
Speaker 1: a wheelchair at the time. Yeah, okay, So Slim and
Speaker 1: Hondo stabbed both Ephraim and Missus Bradley. You drove them
Speaker 1: to a motel. At some point, your friend otis back
Speaker 1: at the mobile home takes the gun Slim and Hondo
Speaker 1: had left behind. Not too smart, by the way, because
Speaker 1: Slim and Hondo knew who was in the mobile home
Speaker 1: when they stashed it in the first place, so they
Speaker 1: come looking for Otis.
Speaker 4: On June twenty third, June twenty thirty, he came overs
Speaker 4: looking for Otis like Wilson in the morning. They said,
Speaker 4: come outside, I'm going to go to your olds. I
Speaker 4: didn't know Olis's out here in the motor holes. So
Speaker 4: when I went up to the front, York Jordan open
Speaker 4: oldest steps out, hands packed over this, say there with
Speaker 4: my gun. He said, we can go get it. He
Speaker 4: said too late, and then catching they started fighting. All
Speaker 4: this was fighting back for they were fighting him from
Speaker 4: the side of the mother hole. He went around the
Speaker 4: garage and that was the first time I saw him
Speaker 4: being stand and I came back from around there. I
Speaker 4: wasn't neighboring water or whatever, so didn't say nothing, and
Speaker 4: if listening to everything that was going on. And I
Speaker 4: don't know how the much time passed, but gave Honolds
Speaker 4: came from around there and it was no more noise.
Speaker 4: I was wondering them, okay, now what he said, Uh,
Speaker 4: wolves up, you got some recume And then I gave
Speaker 4: him my blanket. So him was swinging, went behind the
Speaker 4: fane and wrapped him up, drugged him out, and put
Speaker 4: him in the car. And then instead of him a
Speaker 4: slim boy, he said, you said you stay here watching
Speaker 4: down all the blood that was coming from behind the
Speaker 4: mother hole, and showed me to get in the car
Speaker 4: and ride with him. So I took him over through
Speaker 4: my own boys neighborhood by the canal, and that's where
Speaker 4: he jumped in and I said, look, I'll be back.
Speaker 4: I left the ever same day.
Speaker 1: And what would you tell anyone listening now who's wondering
Speaker 1: why you played any part in getting rid of the
Speaker 1: body with Slim and Hondo.
Speaker 4: I did with any reasonable person not trying to die,
Speaker 4: I would have done hadn't seen what I saw. I
Speaker 4: knew I gotta do something that made myself a part
Speaker 4: of what's going on. And I wasn't a physically able
Speaker 4: to do nothing to prevent myself from being killed. And
Speaker 4: I'm swissed in that was the smartest thing that I
Speaker 4: could have done at the time for myself, instead of
Speaker 4: doing nothing.
Speaker 1: If you had done nothing at all, what do you
Speaker 1: think Slim and Hondo would have done.
Speaker 4: I was a little bit too afraid to find out.
Speaker 4: I was in a position where something happened to my
Speaker 4: friend Donalds to know where I stood, and I did
Speaker 4: what I thought was the best thing to do for
Speaker 4: my film that I too for older now about saying
Speaker 4: my film.
Speaker 1: This episode is sponsored by AIG, a leading global insurance company,
Speaker 1: and Paul Weiss Rifkin, Wharton and Garrison, a leading international
Speaker 1: law firm. The AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal
Speaker 1: services and other support to many nonprofit organizations and individuals
Speaker 1: most in need, and recently they announced that working to
Speaker 1: reform the criminal justice system will become a key pillar
Speaker 1: of the program's mission. Paul Weiss has long had an
Speaker 1: unwavering commitment to providing impactful pro bono legal assistance to
Speaker 1: the most vulnerable members of our society and in support
Speaker 1: of the public interest, including extensive work in the criminal
Speaker 1: justice area. Otis's murderer eventually gets pinned on you, the
Speaker 1: guy who was only able to watch or listen helplessly,
Speaker 1: has your friend got stabbed to death, and then, in
Speaker 1: order to save your own life, you did what probably
Speaker 1: any of us would have done. You played along with
Speaker 1: Slim and Hondo until you could get away. I would
Speaker 1: not want to have been in your shoes. At that point,
Speaker 1: you just lost your brand. Otis you had to contend
Speaker 1: with the question of to snitch or not to snitch
Speaker 1: on like a sophie's choice on these two murderous drug dealers.
Speaker 4: That's when I was trying to process whatever it just
Speaker 4: happened to show. Thirty seven o'clock in the morning, That's
Speaker 4: when I saw the police and I told that I
Speaker 4: knew who it was. Would always said, come over here
Speaker 4: and look, I knew it was. I said, I know
Speaker 4: where he lives, to his mother's house. And then when
Speaker 4: we say back to the scene, I asked my saying,
Speaker 4: look if I had any information, talk on our contract,
Speaker 4: and he gave me his car. I took your car
Speaker 4: rode Mouth two. While I was to the phone booth,
Speaker 4: I called a police you look and I told everything
Speaker 4: they need to know. It's a little while was there.
Speaker 4: They came and kicked me up, shook me out to
Speaker 4: the station, and I made the cap. Maybe once I
Speaker 4: made the cake, they let me go out back home.
Speaker 1: So you made a statement to a sergeant. Sergeant Preston
Speaker 1: and you're going to be a witness, and Steve, maybe
Speaker 1: you can tell us about the next part of the story,
Speaker 1: which is how Kevin was picked up for cocaine possession.
Speaker 1: Sometime later, and while in the state's witness holding area
Speaker 1: of La County Jail, he eventually meets three guys who
Speaker 1: are responsible for him being in this horrible predicament today.
Speaker 3: What happened was Kevin got arrested for a possession of
Speaker 3: cocaine charge, and because he was the main witness against
Speaker 3: Slim and Hondo on a murder case, they put him
Speaker 3: in with other prosecution witnesses and it's commonly called the
Speaker 3: snitch Tank, which is a separate jail from the men's
Speaker 3: central jail. And while Kevin was in there, he told
Speaker 3: his cellmate, Willie Battle and the guy that was in
Speaker 3: the next sel over, Jesse Williams. He told them what
Speaker 3: actually happened because they asked, and that's very common in jail,
Speaker 3: what are he in for? And they exchanged information, but
Speaker 3: this time it only came from Kevin. He told him
Speaker 3: what happened, and they twisted it around and ran with it.
Speaker 3: And then they called the Compton Police Department and asked
Speaker 3: them if they had a murder case where the body
Speaker 3: was found by a canal. They called it a canal.
Speaker 3: It's really a drainage ditch. And they put him in
Speaker 3: contact with Detective Marvin Branscombe, who was not sergeant to Preston,
Speaker 3: who Kevin gave the statement to, and they convinced Branscomb
Speaker 3: that what they had to say was true, which they
Speaker 3: said that Kevin confessed to these tempted murders and murder.
Speaker 4: They say, we got a guy on here bragging about
Speaker 4: chilling his guy with lady is telling the big time,
Speaker 4: don't it. So I end up going from being the
Speaker 4: actual witness to now being the actual killer.
Speaker 3: So Kevin became a defendant instead of the prosecution witness,
Speaker 3: and they moved him out of the snitch tank to
Speaker 3: another part of the jail. So Kevin's transferred over to
Speaker 3: the central jail, and then he met a very notorious
Speaker 3: snitch named Leslie White. And I get a call from
Speaker 3: Leslie White. I'd never heard of Leslie White. Leslie White says,
Speaker 3: I understand you're defending Kevin Dyke's and that he has
Speaker 3: been ratted out by two snitches. And I said that's
Speaker 3: exactly right. He says, well, I can help you. You
Speaker 3: come down here and I'm going to tell you all
Speaker 3: about the snitch system and how it works. Okay, So
Speaker 3: I go down to the jail. I talked to Leslie White.
Speaker 3: He tells me about how inmates get a hold of
Speaker 3: paperwork and change fact and get a hold of the
Speaker 3: detective or DA that's handling a particular murder case. And
Speaker 3: because they know these unique facts, they can convince the
Speaker 3: detective or district attorney that's handling the case that this
Speaker 3: confession was a valid confession. So I said, well, that
Speaker 3: sounds good. Okay, I'll put you on the witness list,
Speaker 3: mister White. So about a week or two later, I
Speaker 3: get the witness list from the district attorney and Leslie
Speaker 3: White is on there as a people's witness. And not
Speaker 3: only that, I get a report that says that Kevin
Speaker 3: Dyke's confessed to Leslie White. And I'm flabbergasted because I
Speaker 3: just talked to Leslie White and he was going to
Speaker 3: be a witness for Kevin. So I go down to
Speaker 3: the jail and I call out Leslie White and he's
Speaker 3: willing to come and talk to me, and I said,
Speaker 3: what do you are? You a witness for the prosecution now,
Speaker 3: he says yep. I said, well, you know that Kevin's innocent.
Speaker 3: Why do you do what? How can you do that?
Speaker 3: And he says, well, man's got to do what he's
Speaker 3: got to do. That's what he said.
Speaker 1: I gotta be honest. My head is spinning. And I
Speaker 1: didn't even live through this. I mean, this is Kevin.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm so sorry that you're living this is that,
Speaker 1: this is your life we're talking about.
Speaker 4: I didn't actually believe that what was going on was
Speaker 4: even possible. I didn't think that this stuff would hold.
Speaker 4: I'm like, what hold? I'm an actual eye withness. These
Speaker 4: guys they don't know nothing about where I lived, but
Speaker 4: nothing about what actually happened. So I didn't really believe
Speaker 4: the people could do what they were what they were
Speaker 4: doing to me. I had never even heard about that before.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is this is like nothing. I don't
Speaker 1: think we've ever heard a story like this before. So Steven,
Speaker 1: what happens next?
Speaker 3: When we got to court, all they had was his
Speaker 3: statement to Sergeant Preston and three snitches, and I couldn't
Speaker 3: believe that they would even want to proceed with this evidence.
Speaker 3: But they did, and just before the verdict was issued,
Speaker 3: I told Kevin, I said, now Kevin, when you get
Speaker 3: out of here, you've got to change your ways, be
Speaker 3: a law abiding citizen and then used to society, and
Speaker 3: he said, yeah, came mister Houser, I'm going to do that,
Speaker 3: came back guilty. We were both floored.
Speaker 1: You were sentenced to twenty four years to life. Here
Speaker 1: it is now twenty twenty. You're still in Can you
Speaker 1: just take us back there, put us in that courtroom
Speaker 1: with you if you can.
Speaker 4: I actually should not believe the verbiant. Yeah, I actually
Speaker 4: in the fine. I just see how it was possible. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I was askual eye witness. I came for. I gave
Speaker 4: him everything they needed, all evidence to car the weather.
Speaker 4: The people from testified that I didn't attack. People will
Speaker 4: stand by thirty three times at least fighter I didn't attacking,
Speaker 4: And it just fires that I didn't attack Ms. Browning.
Speaker 4: That was my friend mother. There was nobody here. You'll say, okay, anybody.
Speaker 1: But and this is something I really need to highlight here,
Speaker 1: which is that if you go in a jury box
Speaker 1: and you're presented with a case where someone's life is
Speaker 1: hanging into balance, just like Kevin's was, and there's no
Speaker 1: evidence connecting that person's at a crime except for the
Speaker 1: testimony of a snitch, you cannot vote to convict because
Speaker 1: it's crazy. I mean, these are people who are clearly incentivized.
Speaker 1: They may not tell you that at the time, but
Speaker 1: you have to understand that the defense can never bribe
Speaker 1: a witness. That's it. That's a crime punishable by long
Speaker 1: time in jail. But the government can make a deal
Speaker 1: with a snitch to reduce their charges or drop their
Speaker 1: charges in exchange for testimony, and that is the best
Speaker 1: bribe of all. So it's the most unreliable testimony imaginable.
Speaker 1: And here you have a case where the direct evidence
Speaker 1: contradicts what the snitches were saying. The evidence showed that
Speaker 1: Kevin could not have committed this crime, and yet he
Speaker 1: ends up getting convicted on the testimony of people who
Speaker 1: were notoriously untrustworthy and were incentivised to lie.
Speaker 4: Mister Holliard found evidence where they get apartments. They say, oh,
Speaker 4: he's grit in my family. So the government gives him
Speaker 4: money to relocate them move in apartments. All of them
Speaker 4: ended up getting reduced sients left white ended up getting
Speaker 4: out at such five and gives me, I don't know
Speaker 4: if you remember this thousand. He came right back an
Speaker 4: he threatened thesis attorney, if you don't bake me back out,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna blow his whole case up. You remember, miss out.
Speaker 3: What happened was Leslie White then went on sixty minutes
Speaker 3: when he was back in again in in the jail,
Speaker 3: and he showed on camera how he could work his
Speaker 3: magic and get favors from the DA. And then when
Speaker 3: I saw that, I went down and talked to Leslie White.
Speaker 3: I said, well, now I know for sure you lied
Speaker 3: in Kevin's case, and he said, yeah, I did. And
Speaker 3: I said, well, I want you to sign an affidavit
Speaker 3: that you lied in Kevin's case because Kevin deserves a
Speaker 3: new trial. And so sure enough he signed it. But
Speaker 3: instead of giving Kevin a new trial, the DA indicted
Speaker 3: him Leslie White with a grand jury, had me come
Speaker 3: in and testify, and they gave Leslie White four years
Speaker 3: for perjury. They gave Kevin Dykes nothing. And that's where
Speaker 3: it sat. It's all so backwards and upside down.
Speaker 1: And of course, you know, we have two more characters
Speaker 1: that are coming up, with Gigi Gordon, who's on the
Speaker 1: right side of this story, and Willie battles. We can't
Speaker 1: leave him out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, When this snitch system came out, thanks to Leslie White,
Speaker 3: believe it or not, Gigi Gordon was appointed. She's a
Speaker 3: defense lawyer. She's deceased now, but she was a criminal
Speaker 3: defense lawyer. Friend of mine, and Jigi Gordon was appointed
Speaker 3: by i think the Supreme Court to do an independent
Speaker 3: investigation on all of the snitch cases to see if
Speaker 3: justice was done. And she spent over a year on
Speaker 3: this project, being paid by the state of California. And
Speaker 3: as a result of Gigi Gordon's research and investigation, a
Speaker 3: law was introduced in the legislature to require corroboration if
Speaker 3: snitch testimony is going to be used in a case.
Speaker 1: And that happened, but they didn't do it retroactively. Am
Speaker 1: I getting that right? Because it always drives me nuts
Speaker 1: when we change a law in this country and we
Speaker 1: don't do it retroactively. How could it be different now
Speaker 1: than it was before. It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3: Didn't make any sense to me. That's why I appealed it.
Speaker 3: We went to the Appellate Court in California, then the
Speaker 3: Supreme Court, and actually when we went to the Supreme Court,
Speaker 3: the first time, the law had not been changed yet.
Speaker 3: But then we went back to the Supreme Court on
Speaker 3: another issue, and the law had been changed. And in
Speaker 3: federal court, the judge actually said that Kevin might be innocent,
Speaker 3: but there's nothing I can do because this law is
Speaker 3: not retroactive or something to that effect. And I just
Speaker 3: thought that that was the most unjust result I've ever
Speaker 3: had in my whole career.
Speaker 1: Still is wow.
Speaker 3: And so, if Kevin's case were tried now, they wouldn't
Speaker 3: have any evidence against him because the only incriminating evidence
Speaker 3: was from the snitch testimony.
Speaker 1: If Kevin's case were to be tried now, they would
Speaker 1: have no evidence against him. And yet it's thirty four
Speaker 1: years later and he's I can't this is nuts.
Speaker 3: I went to the district attorney with that very argument.
Speaker 3: With each new district attorney that came in, I would
Speaker 3: go talk to him and they told me that because
Speaker 3: of his statement admitting what he did pretending to go
Speaker 3: along with what Slim and Honda were doing, because of
Speaker 3: that statement, that made him guilty. And they said, sorry,
Speaker 3: you have to present new evidence to us before we're
Speaker 3: going to recommend anything for Kevin. And I said, what's
Speaker 3: the matter. With these confessions by these snitches, that's new evidence.
Speaker 3: At least since the trial. Two out of three Leslie
Speaker 3: White signed an affidavit that sent him put himself in prison,
Speaker 3: and Jesse Williams signed a letter saying that he lied
Speaker 3: in Kevin's case. He said, no, we want some more
Speaker 3: than that. Plus you've got one snitch that you don't have,
Speaker 3: you know, retraction from Willi Battle. We never had a
Speaker 3: retraction from him. And Willie Battle I tried to find,
Speaker 3: but he's probably dead. So that's where we sit.
Speaker 1: And what is the outlook now? I mean, is there hope?
Speaker 3: I think Kevin has two hopes number one with a
Speaker 3: new DA. I think Gascon is much more progressive than
Speaker 3: Jackie Lacy. I thought Jackie Lacey was very progressive, and
Speaker 3: I had high hopes for Kevin when she put together
Speaker 3: her Internal Innocent project and I met with what I
Speaker 3: thought was a very ethical, fine lawyer, and I got
Speaker 3: a very unfavorable result. And I asked him during that hearing,
Speaker 3: I said, you know, as a human being, you know,
Speaker 3: do you really think that Kevin Dykes was convicted properly fairly?
Speaker 3: He wouldn't answer, He wouldn't give me an answer that
Speaker 3: was the guy in charge of Jackie Lacy's internal innocence project.
Speaker 1: And in case people think there's not enough here, already
Speaker 1: we have a case where the victim's family doesn't hold
Speaker 1: Kevin responsible. I think anybody coming out of you know,
Speaker 1: high school would look at this and go, okay, well,
Speaker 1: this guy's in and said, let's get him home. But
Speaker 1: the way the laws are set up, it's really really
Speaker 1: difficult even in a case like this with so much
Speaker 1: compelling evidence of not just reasonable doubt, but evidence of
Speaker 1: actual innocence. And now the next step really and luckily
Speaker 1: we have a great governor my opinion, of course, the
Speaker 1: great governor of the state of California, Gavin Newsom. What
Speaker 1: is the process for trying to get this on his ask?
Speaker 3: The law in California is that if you've done state
Speaker 3: prison time, you have to go to the Supreme Court
Speaker 3: before you can petition the governor on a different case.
Speaker 3: Because of that prior conviction for involuntary manslaughter, Kevin can't
Speaker 3: go to the Governor's office. I can't go on his
Speaker 3: behalf to the governor. You have to petition the Supreme
Speaker 3: Court and get permission from them to ask the governor
Speaker 3: for a pardon or clemency. And in the years past
Speaker 3: we've had a pretty conservative Supreme Court, which is different now,
Speaker 3: But as well try that if there's nothing else.
Speaker 1: That is a strange thing in the law too. In California.
Speaker 1: Is not the first time I've encountered it where it
Speaker 1: has to you know, the underlying previous conviction stands in
Speaker 1: the way of even the governor taking an action, because
Speaker 1: I believe if he knew about this case, he would
Speaker 1: want to.
Speaker 3: But I think the best thing to do is to
Speaker 3: hope for parole, hope that the DA does not oppose parole.
Speaker 3: Think Kevin comes up for parole, I think in another
Speaker 3: year or two.
Speaker 4: The SEVERER thirteenth next year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, well, but even better is to have the
Speaker 3: new DA take a look at this case and admit
Speaker 3: that Kevin was wrongfully convicted.
Speaker 1: Kevin, what would you like people to do or or
Speaker 1: to know?
Speaker 4: Well, I know I need the right things, and I
Speaker 4: went to the police hand and hide, throw the food.
Speaker 4: Then I tow the food firm and jury. Even now
Speaker 4: I don't regret doing the right thing because it was
Speaker 4: my friend's life and it was important for his mother
Speaker 4: to know the food. What happened to her son, I
Speaker 4: was e same thing. You know, I will still go
Speaker 4: through the police. I'll still set the food. Maybe I
Speaker 4: wouldn't say that while I'm in jail. It cost me
Speaker 4: a lot. I've lost like seventeen family members. My mom's
Speaker 4: had spoke a few years ago. Now, it cost me
Speaker 4: a lot, But I was still doing it even after
Speaker 4: all this.
Speaker 1: Time, and all this time in prison, have there been
Speaker 1: any like moments of little rays of light that poked
Speaker 1: their head into such a dark place? And was there
Speaker 1: a particular moment where you almost lost hope? It's sort
Speaker 1: of the darkest moment for you.
Speaker 4: I found Lorrd the last five years, so I'm a
Speaker 4: finished finding with God in myself. So now it's like,
Speaker 4: you know what, there's nothing I can do about what
Speaker 4: they've done. I'm not gonna let them take what's left
Speaker 4: that I got in my spear. And now my family's
Speaker 4: proud of me, even though I've never done nothing, because
Speaker 4: I've saved my life. So it's real dark time, trusting
Speaker 4: a lot, but I'm gonna keep push them. I'm gonna
Speaker 4: keep believing I got to so I.
Speaker 1: Got I mean, I'm just sitting here with a heavy
Speaker 1: sort of nod in my stomach, just the fact that
Speaker 1: I mean, you're fifty nine year old man, you spent
Speaker 1: almost twice as long in prison as you were free.
Speaker 1: Your no threat to society. This is what the par
Speaker 1: board is for. You know, Well, this man needs to
Speaker 1: go home. I'm going to stay optimistic and I'm going
Speaker 1: to tell you We're going to do everything we can.
Speaker 1: And I feel like society owes you a debt and
Speaker 1: an apology, and all we can do is bring as
Speaker 1: much attention as we can and trying to bring this
Speaker 1: to the attention of the people who can make a
Speaker 1: difference in this case, try to make it right.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 1: So we have a very special section segment of this show.
Speaker 1: That's my favorite part, and this is what we call
Speaker 1: closing arguments. I first of all, thank you both. So
Speaker 1: first of all, Stephen K. Hawser Attorney, thank you for
Speaker 1: being here with us today.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 3: It's a privilege.
Speaker 1: And Kevin Dyke, what can I say?
Speaker 4: Man?
Speaker 1: You are inspiring guy. From what little I know you,
Speaker 1: just from this call, I can tell your spirit is
Speaker 1: coming through the wire all the way across the country
Speaker 1: and it's going to be going out to a lot
Speaker 1: of people, So thank you for sharing your thoughts and
Speaker 1: being so courageous here today problem and now I turned
Speaker 1: my microphone off, uh and I just leave my headphones on,
Speaker 1: close my eyes and let you both talk about whatever
Speaker 1: you want for the last few minutes of the show. Kevin,
Speaker 1: we're gonna save you for last if that's okay. And Stephen,
Speaker 1: please just share whatever it is that's on your mind.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 3: Well, Kevin, let's hope this is another step to get
Speaker 3: you out of prison. It's been a long long road,
Speaker 3: but I won't give up ever.
Speaker 1: Kevin, over to you.
Speaker 4: I'm thankful, you know. And it's taking me a long time,
Speaker 4: but I'm at it like the last five years now,
Speaker 4: and my life now still has purpose and meaning despite
Speaker 4: what they've done. I owe no feel feelings, force nobody.
Speaker 4: He is what he is as a lost life. I
Speaker 4: was twenty four years old, fifty nine now I've been
Speaker 4: sixty there this year. I've been seen over five years.
Speaker 4: So it's like there's nothing else that I can't do
Speaker 4: because I don't console it. But I won't let what
Speaker 4: they've done to me back then, excepting to me now.
Speaker 4: I'm free, you know, inside, and I'm at peace, and
Speaker 4: even if I die in here, I'll be at peace
Speaker 4: knowing I stood for the super and for once, I
Speaker 4: need the right thing as an adult for my family.
Speaker 4: I wasn't always a criminal. When it came in to
Speaker 4: someone life and death, I needed you the right thing
Speaker 4: for once, something my parents were proud of. This. Nothing
Speaker 4: I can do but keep my mind focused on what's possible,
Speaker 4: what could be possible, and how to help us. It
Speaker 4: is a given opportunity, this syd family in my community
Speaker 4: where I see it now, you know I won't let
Speaker 4: nothing take that from me. That's all I have, and
Speaker 4: I appreciate everything you guys were doing, and I appreciate
Speaker 4: support from me anybody, whether it's the governor, people, whoever
Speaker 4: can be done to help me. It is fool, the
Speaker 4: absolute fool in front of people, and they let them
Speaker 4: deciding me. So I need to be punished for what
Speaker 4: I needed if they say so, because opportunity. But hey,
Speaker 4: I was worried for my life, fear for my life
Speaker 4: at the time. But I see what I believe he
Speaker 4: was writing and I don't really join it.
Speaker 1: Don't forget to give us a fantastic review. Wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. It really helps, and I'm a proud
Speaker 1: donor to the NSIS project, and I really hope you'll
Speaker 1: join me in supporting this very important cause and helping
Speaker 1: to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocence Project dot
Speaker 1: org to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd
Speaker 1: like to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wartis.
Speaker 1: The music in the show is by three time OSCAR
Speaker 1: nominated composer Jay. Be sure to follow us on Instagram
Speaker 1: at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast.
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm is a production of Lava
Speaker 1: for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one