Speaker 1: As a child. In the late nineteen seventies, Kevin Dyke's
Speaker 1: accidentally killed his best friend when they were playing with
Speaker 1: a gun, sending him to Juvie for involuntary manslaughter. When
Speaker 1: he got out, he turned to petty drug dealing in Compton, California.
Speaker 1: Fast forward to six After a terrible assault that led
Speaker 1: to a four month hospital stint, Kevin continued peddling drugs
Speaker 1: from his temporary wheelchair for two men named Slim and Hondo.
Speaker 1: Kevin rented a bed in a trailer home in his
Speaker 1: landlord's driveway, where Slim and Hondo occasionally hit weapons. That June,
Speaker 1: two incidents occurred just days apart, resulting in one murder
Speaker 1: and two attempted murders. The first during a party, when
Speaker 1: Kevin booted his friend from for being belligerently drunk, Slim
Speaker 1: and Hondo folity from stabbing him several times. A neighborhood mother,
Speaker 1: Mrs Bradley, came to eat froms aid, only to get
Speaker 1: stabbed as well. Kevin intervened, jumping from his wheelchair to
Speaker 1: stop the assault before it turned fatal. A few days later,
Speaker 1: Slim and Honda accused Kevin's friend Otis Perry of stealing
Speaker 1: their gun from Kevin's trailer home, stabbing him eighty one times.
Speaker 1: Unable to stop the murderous frenzy and fearing for his
Speaker 1: own life, Kevin helped them clean up before going to
Speaker 1: the police a few hours later. A few days after that,
Speaker 1: Kevin was arrested for cocaine possession. Had put into a
Speaker 1: special holding tank for state's witnesses. Then three jailhouse snitches
Speaker 1: claimed that Kevin had confessed to all three attacks in
Speaker 1: exchange for leniency in their own cases. Kevin Dike's is
Speaker 1: serving life in prison on the word of three notorious
Speaker 1: jailhouse snitches. This is wrongful conviction with Jason Flam. This
Speaker 1: is Global Killing. You have a prepaid call. It from
Speaker 1: in in d D the California State Prison, Los Angeles County, Incaster, California.
Speaker 1: Let's call and our telephone number. We'll be monitored and
Speaker 1: recorded to accept this call. Say or dial five now,
Speaker 1: thank you for you thing, Global tim Link. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to Ron for Conviction with Jason Flam. Today, we have
Speaker 1: an incredible story, so we're gonna get right into it
Speaker 1: and I'm going to introduce you first to Stephen Kay Houser.
Speaker 1: He's a criminal defense attorney representing the star of this episode,
Speaker 1: Kevin Dyke. Stephen. Welcome to Ronful Conviction. Thank you glad
Speaker 1: to be here. And Kevin Dyke's is on the phone
Speaker 1: with us from prison, and I hope we'll be able
Speaker 1: to do something about his situation because it is awful. Kevin.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry you're here um or where you are, but
Speaker 1: I'm happy you're here with us today. So thank you
Speaker 1: for being here. Thank you for the opportunity. This case
Speaker 1: goes back to Compton, and it's got It's got so
Speaker 1: much that you'll think I'm talking about a movie script
Speaker 1: that would be too much to be believed, except for
Speaker 1: it's real. It's got gangster's name Hondo and Slim. It's
Speaker 1: got drugs, it's got snitches that ended up on sixty minutes.
Speaker 1: It's got laws that changed and and victims who testified
Speaker 1: that this was not the guy who did it. It's
Speaker 1: got a guy who's in prison for three and a
Speaker 1: half decades with no evidence against him except the testimony
Speaker 1: of jail house snitches who have recanted their testimony. It
Speaker 1: is nuts, but it's true. So let's get right into
Speaker 1: it and Kevin, let's start with you going back to
Speaker 1: your youth because you grew up in Compton, right, Yes,
Speaker 1: I grew up home in the top water sports. I
Speaker 1: actually had a real good up ring until I, uh,
Speaker 1: I think you're actually severe. I ended up actually killing
Speaker 1: my my best friend. I work for Blisary Man. And
Speaker 1: for those of you who don't know why A or
Speaker 1: see why, I is the California US authority. As I
Speaker 1: under standard, your friend's death was entirely accidental, just two
Speaker 1: kids who made a big mistake playing with a gun.
Speaker 1: But they still sit you away to juvie for involuntary manslaughter.
Speaker 1: And I also understand that you harbor a lot of
Speaker 1: guilt about this, even though the family forgave you. Yes,
Speaker 1: this family, they stayed directly across the street from my family,
Speaker 1: even to the day, still feeling the same three although
Speaker 1: the family had for giving me, ridding me letters, was
Speaker 1: come and see me. When I got out, I saw
Speaker 1: what I did for that family, and I didn't know
Speaker 1: how to proper. Although my mother and my father and
Speaker 1: my grandmother and all kinds of people will trying to
Speaker 1: help me, I didn't know how to ask for their
Speaker 1: help that I actually need so I got degeren as
Speaker 1: little Digreen to the game. So so the guilt kind
Speaker 1: of derailed your potential, it seems. And after Juvie you
Speaker 1: start dealing drugs and looking outside of what seemed like
Speaker 1: a supportive home for what where it was that you
Speaker 1: felt you needed, acceptance, identity, whatever, out in the street.
Speaker 1: So fast forward to January six, some other really bad
Speaker 1: stuff happens January somebody they try to chee them in
Speaker 1: front of my house. I followed them. They ran me
Speaker 1: through a brick wall and he broke my had to
Speaker 1: smash my films. So I wanted to hospital to make
Speaker 1: for you. When I got in the hospital, I was
Speaker 1: in a wheelchair and I had a walk and I
Speaker 1: was going through the therapy. Yes, someone tried to kidnap Kevin,
Speaker 1: so you fought them off and they ended up hitting
Speaker 1: you with their car against a brick wall, broke your hips,
Speaker 1: snapped your pelvis, and put you in the hospital for
Speaker 1: four months. I mean, you're lucky to even be alive,
Speaker 1: and we haven't even gotten to the part that has
Speaker 1: you locked up right now. Okay, so it's May. You're
Speaker 1: temporarily in this wheelchair doing physical therapy and dealing draw
Speaker 1: us for these two mid level management drug dealers named
Speaker 1: Slim and Hondo. Slim and Hondo decided that they were
Speaker 1: going to take over the local drug sales. I believe
Speaker 1: they helped Kevin and some of his friends with small
Speaker 1: amounts of cocaine to sell in the neighborhood and they
Speaker 1: would periodically show up and I guess resupply the local sellers,
Speaker 1: including Kevin and Kevin. You were renting a place to
Speaker 1: stay from a man named Mr. Bryce. You were renting
Speaker 1: a bed in this mobile home that sat in his
Speaker 1: driveway right, Yes, I was staying in Mr bryce mobile
Speaker 1: We had a mobile home in hand, like six days
Speaker 1: in the shower and all that stuff inside it was
Speaker 1: talked in the driveway. Sometimes my friends to stay had
Speaker 1: like six places so old come in sleeping. And Otis
Speaker 1: is Otis Perry who occasionally stayed at Mr Bryce's mobile home.
Speaker 1: And he's the one that was eventually stabbed by Slim
Speaker 1: and Hondo for taking the gun that they had left
Speaker 1: in the trailer. The night that these two attempted murders
Speaker 1: occurred outside a party at Mr Bryce's house. Yes, my
Speaker 1: cousin Fami was inside the mobile hole I was inside
Speaker 1: the house where the party was, there when the fight,
Speaker 1: and when the fight after, so I didn't know without
Speaker 1: there at the time, and I know Slim pulls up.
Speaker 1: They knew Mr Brice didn't allow girls in this house.
Speaker 1: What do you here to come in the mobile hole
Speaker 1: with my cousin. But I stually didn't know nothing about
Speaker 1: that at that time. Okay, so now the stage is
Speaker 1: finally set for these crimes to take place. This is
Speaker 1: we're talking June. There's a little party going on at
Speaker 1: Mr Bryce's. Your friend Otis and your cousin Pam are
Speaker 1: in the mobile home in the driveway. Slim and Hondo,
Speaker 1: your bosses, come to hang out, but out of respect
Speaker 1: for Mr Bryce, they leave their gun in the mobile home.
Speaker 1: Then your friend is at the party and he is drunk,
Speaker 1: to say the least from my older homeboy. He was
Speaker 1: being reliterate and uh mestal with the females. I was
Speaker 1: up in there grabbing drinks that didn't blow to him,
Speaker 1: and I thought, efa man, go down to the pool, man,
Speaker 1: keep back. I got, and he kept on. So I
Speaker 1: got Piste off and I hate him once and when
Speaker 1: I hate him, Slim, both of them attacking because of
Speaker 1: my Here's what they said. He said. I didn't understand.
Speaker 1: Why did they get involved in there? Here's what they said,
Speaker 1: because I should barely walk. They people were taking advantage
Speaker 1: of my disability. Okay, so your drug bosses are sticking
Speaker 1: up for you, but then they go way beyond what
Speaker 1: you would ever want them to do. Yes, So once
Speaker 1: I stuck in from both of them attacking, I got
Speaker 1: them to stop sold infinitely. He left and then they
Speaker 1: say he's down the street. They called him much the
Speaker 1: end of the corner. Once I got down there, I
Speaker 1: saw that they was actually stabbing. When I hurd Hando
Speaker 1: leaving alone Hondo, he looked up and saw me, But
Speaker 1: when he saw me, he saw him as Bradley. Behind
Speaker 1: me was Bradley is my older home was mother. When
Speaker 1: she looked up and saw that it was her son,
Speaker 1: she tried to turn around. He ran her down, drabbed
Speaker 1: her by her dressed and saw a staffer. I hopped
Speaker 1: my way to him and grabbed him to see him
Speaker 1: off of her. And once I was holding me, she
Speaker 1: got loose. This day from time to git up and
Speaker 1: then I got to convince them to set to the
Speaker 1: car and drove him off. I drove off to a
Speaker 1: motive and then I came back to check on from
Speaker 1: him Miss Bradley, But damn, I was already came and
Speaker 1: it was in the hospital. So you basically saved Mrs
Speaker 1: Bradley and Ephraim from being murdered by swimming Hondo by
Speaker 1: convincing them to stop stabbing them and drive away from
Speaker 1: the scene. But this incident on June is what becomes
Speaker 1: two charges of attempted murder that gets stuck on you.
Speaker 1: The guy confined to a wheelchair at the time. Um, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So Slim and Hondo stabbed both Ephraim and Mrs Bradley.
Speaker 1: You drove them to a motel. At some point, your
Speaker 1: friend Otis back at the mobile home, takes the guns
Speaker 1: Slim and Hondo had left behind. Not too smart, by
Speaker 1: the way, because Slim and Hondo knew who was in
Speaker 1: the mobile home when they stashed it in the first place,
Speaker 1: So they come looking for Otis. On ju Ju came
Speaker 1: over looking for Otis, like, well, something in the morning,
Speaker 1: they should come outside. I'm gonna go to your Otis.
Speaker 1: I didn't know Oss out here in the motor hole,
Speaker 1: so when I went out to the York Georgian. The
Speaker 1: moor open otis skip out Hanold's cat otis geme in.
Speaker 1: With my gun ahead, he said, we can go get it.
Speaker 1: He said too late and then catching they started fighting.
Speaker 1: All the fighting back when they were fighting from the
Speaker 1: side of them over hole. He went around the garage
Speaker 1: and that was the first time my saw and being
Speaker 1: stand and I came back from around there. I wasn't
Speaker 1: nehble to one or whatever from didn't say nothing, and
Speaker 1: the listening to everything that was going on. And I
Speaker 1: don't know how much time pass but James Arnold's cared
Speaker 1: from around there and with no more noise, I was wandering.
Speaker 1: Okay now he said, uh, wolves up, you got some recue.
Speaker 1: And I gave him my blanket so he must sit
Speaker 1: with behind the babe and wrapped him up, drugged him
Speaker 1: out and put him in the car and instead of
Speaker 1: him a slim boys, he said, you said me stay
Speaker 1: here watching that all the brother that was coming from
Speaker 1: behind them other hole and Joe me to get the
Speaker 1: car and ride with him. So I took him over
Speaker 1: to my owner's neighbor wed by the canal, and that's
Speaker 1: where he jumped in and I seem if i'd be back,
Speaker 1: I left, and they ever say a day, And what
Speaker 1: would you tell anyone listening now who's wondering why you
Speaker 1: played any part in getting rid of the body with
Speaker 1: Slimming Hondo. I do with any reasonable person, not finding
Speaker 1: that I would have done hadn't seen what I saw.
Speaker 1: I knew I gotta do something that made myself a
Speaker 1: partner what's going on? And I wasn't acisically able to
Speaker 1: do nothing to prevent myself from being killed. And I
Speaker 1: spist said that was the smartest thing that I too
Speaker 1: done at the time for myself, instead of doing nothing.
Speaker 1: If you had done nothing at all, what do you
Speaker 1: think Slimming Hondo would have done? I was a little
Speaker 1: bit too afraid to find out. I was in a
Speaker 1: position where something happened to my friend and handed to
Speaker 1: know Roster, and I did what I thought was the
Speaker 1: best thing to do for myself. They're not to folder now,
Speaker 1: I say to myself. This episode is sponsored by A
Speaker 1: I G, a leading global insurance company, and Paul Weiss Rifkin,
Speaker 1: Wharton and Garrison, a leading international law firm. The A
Speaker 1: I G pro Bono program provides free legal services and
Speaker 1: other support to many nonprofit organizations and individuals most in need,
Speaker 1: and recently they announced that working to reform the criminal
Speaker 1: justice system will become a key pillar of the program's mission.
Speaker 1: Paul Weiss has long had an unwavering commitment to providing impactful,
Speaker 1: pro bono legal assistance to the most vulnerable members of
Speaker 1: our society and in support of the public interest, including
Speaker 1: extensive work in the criminal justice area. Otis Is murderer
Speaker 1: eventually gets pinned on you, the guy who was only
Speaker 1: able to watch or listen helplessly. Has your friend got
Speaker 1: stabbed at that and then in order to save your
Speaker 1: own life, you did what probably any of us would
Speaker 1: have done. You played along with Slim and Hondo until
Speaker 1: you could get away. I would not want to have
Speaker 1: been in your shoes at that point. You just lost
Speaker 1: your brand. Otis. You had to contend with the question
Speaker 1: of to snitch or not to snitch on like a
Speaker 1: Sophie's choice on these two murderous drug dealers. That's when
Speaker 1: I was trying to process whatever it's just happened to
Speaker 1: the show sixty Seven'sock in the morning. That's when I
Speaker 1: saw the poet and I told that I think I
Speaker 1: know who that was? What always saying, come over here
Speaker 1: and look like blanking. I knew it was. I said,
Speaker 1: I know where it lives, a blue mother's house. And
Speaker 1: then when we came back and seen I asked my
Speaker 1: failure if I had any information talk on our contract,
Speaker 1: and he gave me his car. I took your car
Speaker 1: road two wows and you know, I went to the
Speaker 1: phone boof and the I called the police and I
Speaker 1: told everything they need to know. It's all a while
Speaker 1: that They came and kick me up, took me off
Speaker 1: to the station and I mean to take maybe it
Speaker 1: was I made the cap. They let me go out
Speaker 1: with that home. So you made a statement to a sergeant,
Speaker 1: Sergeant Preston, and you're gonna be a witness and Steve,
Speaker 1: maybe you can tell us about the next part of
Speaker 1: the story, which is how Kevin was picked up for
Speaker 1: cocaine possession. Sometime later, and while in the state's witness
Speaker 1: holding area of l A County Jail, he eventually meets
Speaker 1: three guys who are responsible for him being in this
Speaker 1: horrible predicament today. What happened was Kevin got arrested for
Speaker 1: a possession of cocaine charge and because he was the
Speaker 1: main witness against Slim and Hondo on a murder case.
Speaker 1: They put him in with other prosecution witnesses and it's
Speaker 1: commonly called the snitch Tank, which is a separate jail
Speaker 1: from the men's central jail. And while Kevin was in there,
Speaker 1: he told his cellmate, Willie Battle and the guy that
Speaker 1: was in the next cell over, Jesse Williams. He told
Speaker 1: them what actually happened, as they asked, and that's very
Speaker 1: common in jail, what are you in for? And they
Speaker 1: exchanged information, but this time it only came from Kevin.
Speaker 1: He told him what happened, and they twisted it around
Speaker 1: and ran with it. And then they called the Compton
Speaker 1: Police Department and asked them if they had a murder
Speaker 1: case where the body was found by a canal. They
Speaker 1: called it a canal, it's really a drainage ditch. And
Speaker 1: they put him in contact with Detective Marvin Branscomb, who
Speaker 1: was not Sergeant Preston, who Kevin gave the statement to,
Speaker 1: and they convinced Branscomb that what they had to say
Speaker 1: was was true, which they said that Kevin confessed to
Speaker 1: these attempting murders and murder. They say, we got a
Speaker 1: guy on him blagging about chilling guy and adversadi time
Speaker 1: don't so I am the bolt from being the actual
Speaker 1: witness now being the actual killer. So Kevin became the
Speaker 1: defendant instead of the prosecution witness, and they moved him
Speaker 1: out of the snitch tank to another part of the jail.
Speaker 1: So Kevin's transferred over to the central jail, and then
Speaker 1: he met a very notorious snitch named Leslie White. And
Speaker 1: I get a call from Leslie White. I've never heard
Speaker 1: of Leslie White. Leslie White says, I understand you're defending
Speaker 1: Kevin Dyke's and that he has been ratted out by
Speaker 1: two snitches. And I said, that's exactly right. He says, well,
Speaker 1: I can help you. You come down here and I'm
Speaker 1: going to tell you all about the snitch system and
Speaker 1: how it works. Okay, So I go down to the jail.
Speaker 1: I talked to Leslie White. He tells me about how
Speaker 1: inmates get ahold of paperwork and change fat and get
Speaker 1: a hold of the detective or d A that's handling
Speaker 1: a particular murder case. And because they know these unique facts,
Speaker 1: they can convince the detective or district attorney that's handling
Speaker 1: the case that this confession was a valid confession. So
Speaker 1: I said, well that sounds good, Okay, I'll put you
Speaker 1: on the witness list, Mr. White. So about a week
Speaker 1: or two later, I get the witness list from the
Speaker 1: district attorney and Leslie White is on there as a
Speaker 1: people's witness. And not only that, I get a report
Speaker 1: that says that Kevin Dike's confessed to Leslie White. And
Speaker 1: I'm flabbergasted because I just talked to Leslie White and
Speaker 1: he was going to be a witness for Kevin. So
Speaker 1: I go down to the jail and I call out
Speaker 1: Leslie White and he's willing to come and talk to me,
Speaker 1: and I said, what do you are you a witness
Speaker 1: for the prosecution now he says yep. I said, well,
Speaker 1: you old that Kevin's innocent. Why do you doing what?
Speaker 1: How can you do that? And he says, well, man's
Speaker 1: got to do what he's got to do, That's what
Speaker 1: he said. I gotta be honest. My head is spinning
Speaker 1: and I didn't even live through this. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is Kevin. I mean, I'm so sorry that you're living
Speaker 1: this is like, this is your life we're talking about.
Speaker 1: I didn't actually believe that what they was going on
Speaker 1: was even possible. I didn't think that there stuff would hold.
Speaker 1: I'm like, what hold? I'm an actual eye witness. These
Speaker 1: guys they don't know learn about where alli or learning
Speaker 1: about what actually happened. So I didn't really believe the
Speaker 1: Pickles could do what they were what they were doing
Speaker 1: to me. I had never even heard about that before.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is this is like nothing. I don't
Speaker 1: think we've ever heard a story like this before. So Steven,
Speaker 1: what happens next? When we got to court, all they
Speaker 1: had was his statement to Sergeant Preston and three snitches,
Speaker 1: and I couldn't believe that they would even want to
Speaker 1: proceed with this evidence, but they did. And just before
Speaker 1: the verdict was issued, I told Kevin and I said, now, Kevin,
Speaker 1: when you get out of here, you've got to change
Speaker 1: your ways, be a law abiding citizen and I used
Speaker 1: to society, and he said, yeah, okay, Mr Houser, I'm
Speaker 1: going to do that. Came back guilty. We were both floored.
Speaker 1: You were since the twenty four years to life here
Speaker 1: it is now two thousand and twenty. You're still in
Speaker 1: Can you just take us back there? Put us in
Speaker 1: that courtroom with you, if you can. I actually could
Speaker 1: not believe in virg Yeah, I'm fine. I you see,
Speaker 1: I was possible. Yeah, I was after I wouldness, I
Speaker 1: came for I gave everything they needed all eviously car
Speaker 1: whether the people from testified that I didn't chat, people
Speaker 1: will stay have like thirty three times at least test fire.
Speaker 1: I didn't attacking, And it's just five that I didn't
Speaker 1: attack Ms Brownie. That was my free of mother. There
Speaker 1: was nobody there said okay, anybody. But and this is
Speaker 1: something I really need to highlight here, which is that
Speaker 1: if you go in a jury box and you're presented
Speaker 1: with the case where someone's life is hanging in the balance,
Speaker 1: just like Kevin's was, and there's no evidence connected that
Speaker 1: person to the crime except for the testimony of a snitch,
Speaker 1: you cannot vote to convict because it's crazy. I mean,
Speaker 1: these are people who are clearly incentivized. They may not
Speaker 1: tell you that at the time, but you have to
Speaker 1: understand that the defense can never bribe a witness. That's
Speaker 1: a that's a crime punishable by a long time in jail.
Speaker 1: But the government can make a deal with a snitch
Speaker 1: to reduce their charges or drop their charges in exchange
Speaker 1: for testimony, and that is the best bribe of all.
Speaker 1: So it's the most unreliable testimony imaginable. And here you
Speaker 1: have a case where the direct evidence contradicts what the
Speaker 1: snitches were saying. The evidence showed that Kevin could not
Speaker 1: have committed this crime, and yet he ends up getting
Speaker 1: convicted under the testimony of people who were notoriously untrustworthy
Speaker 1: and were it sent device to lie. Mr Holler found
Speaker 1: evidence where the apartments. They say, oh, he's been in
Speaker 1: my family, So the government gives them money to relocate
Speaker 1: them movement apartments. All of them end up getting reduced students. Lastly,
Speaker 1: White end up getting out at six five me. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you remember this was back in any
Speaker 1: threatened position, Attorney. If you don't lead me back out,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna blow this whole case. You remember the other
Speaker 1: What happened was Leslie White then went on sixty minutes
Speaker 1: when he was back in again in the jail, and
Speaker 1: he showed on camera how he could work his magic
Speaker 1: and get favors from d A. And then when I
Speaker 1: saw that, I went down and talked to Leslie White.
Speaker 1: I said, well, now I know for sure you lied
Speaker 1: in Kevin's case, and he said, yeah, I did. And
Speaker 1: I said, well, I want you to sign an affidavit
Speaker 1: that you lied in Kevin's case because Kevin deserves a
Speaker 1: new trial. And so sure enough he signed it. But
Speaker 1: instead of giving Kevin a new trial, the d A
Speaker 1: indicted him. Leslie White with a grand jury had me
Speaker 1: come in and testify, and they gave Leslie White four
Speaker 1: years for perjury. They gave Kevin Dike's nothing. And that's
Speaker 1: where it sat. It's all so backwards, an upside down.
Speaker 1: And of course you know we have two more characters
Speaker 1: that are coming up with Gordon, who's on the right
Speaker 1: side of this story, and Willie Battles. We can't leave
Speaker 1: him out. Yeah, when this uh snitch system came out
Speaker 1: thanks to Leslie White, believe it or not, Gei Gordon
Speaker 1: was a pointed she's a defense lawyer. She's deceased now,
Speaker 1: but she was a criminal defense lawyer front of mine.
Speaker 1: And Geesi Gordon was appointed by i think the Supreme
Speaker 1: Court to do an independent investigation on all of the
Speaker 1: snitch cases to see if justice was done. And she
Speaker 1: spent over a year on this project, being paid by
Speaker 1: the state of California, and as a result of Gees
Speaker 1: Gordon's research and investigation, a law was introduced in the
Speaker 1: legislature to require corroboration if snitch testimony is going to
Speaker 1: be used in a case. And that happened, but they
Speaker 1: didn't do it retroactively. Am I getting that right? Because
Speaker 1: it's it always drives me nuts when we change a
Speaker 1: law in this country and we don't do it retroactively.
Speaker 1: How could it be different now than it was before.
Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense, didn't make any sense to me.
Speaker 1: That's why I appealed it. We went to the Appellate
Speaker 1: Court in California, then the Supreme Court, and actually when
Speaker 1: we went to the Supreme Court the first time, the
Speaker 1: law had not been changed yet. But then we went
Speaker 1: back to the Supreme Court on another issue and the
Speaker 1: law had been changed. And in federal court the judge
Speaker 1: actually said that Kevin might be innocent, but there's nothing
Speaker 1: I can do because this law is not retroactive, or
Speaker 1: something to that effect. And I just thought that that
Speaker 1: was the most unjust result I've ever had in my
Speaker 1: whole career. Still is wow. And so if Kevin's case
Speaker 1: were tried now, uh, they wouldn't have any any evidence
Speaker 1: against him because the only incriminating evidence was from the
Speaker 1: snitch testimony. If Kevin's case were to be tried now,
Speaker 1: they would have no evidence against him. And yet it's
Speaker 1: thirty four years later and he's I can't be this
Speaker 1: is nuts. Um. I went to the district attorney with
Speaker 1: that very argument. With each new district attorney that came in,
Speaker 1: I would go talk to him and they told me
Speaker 1: that because of his statement admitting what he did pretending
Speaker 1: to go along with what sliman Honda were doing, because
Speaker 1: of that statement, that made him guilty. And they said, sorry,
Speaker 1: you have to present new evidence to us before we're
Speaker 1: going to recommend anything for Kevin. And I said, what's
Speaker 1: the matter with these confessions by these snitches? That's new
Speaker 1: evidence at least since the trial. Two out of three
Speaker 1: Leslie White signed an affidavit that sent him put himself
Speaker 1: in prison, and Jesse williams Uh signed a letter saying
Speaker 1: that he lied in Kevin's case. He said, no, we
Speaker 1: want some more than that. Plus, you've got one snitch
Speaker 1: that you don't have, you know, a retraction from Willy Battle.
Speaker 1: We never had a retraction from him. And Willie Battle
Speaker 1: I tried to find, but he's probably dead. So that's
Speaker 1: where we sit. And what is the outlook now, I mean,
Speaker 1: is their hope? I think Kevin has two hopes number
Speaker 1: one with a new d A. I think gascon Is
Speaker 1: is much more progressive than Jackie Lacy. I thought Jackie
Speaker 1: Lacey was very progressive, and I had high hopes for
Speaker 1: Kevin when she put together her internal innocent Project and
Speaker 1: I met with what I thought was a very ethical,
Speaker 1: fine lawyer, and I got a very unfavorable result. And
Speaker 1: I asked him during that hearing, I said, you know,
Speaker 1: as a human being, you know, do you really think
Speaker 1: that Kevin Dikes was convicted properly fairly? He wouldn't answer.
Speaker 1: You wouldn't give me any answer. That was the guy
Speaker 1: in charge of Jackie Lacey's Internal Innocence Project m And
Speaker 1: in case people think there's not enough here, already, we
Speaker 1: have a case where the victims family doesn't hold Kevin responsible.
Speaker 1: I think anybody coming out of you know, high school
Speaker 1: would look at this and go, okay, well, this guy's
Speaker 1: inn said let's get him home. But the way the
Speaker 1: laws are set up, it's really really difficult. Even in
Speaker 1: a case like this with so much compelling evidence of
Speaker 1: not just reasonable doubt, but evidence of actual innocence. And
Speaker 1: now the next step really and luckily we have a
Speaker 1: great governor um by opinion, of course, the great governor
Speaker 1: of the City of California, Gavin Newsom. What is the
Speaker 1: process for trying to get this on his ask? The
Speaker 1: law in California is that if you've done state prison time,
Speaker 1: you have to go to the Supreme Court before you
Speaker 1: can petition the governor on a different case. Because of
Speaker 1: that prior conviction for involuntary manslaughter, Kevin can't go to
Speaker 1: the governor's officer, I can't go on his behalf to
Speaker 1: the governor. You have to petition the Supreme Court and
Speaker 1: get permission from them to ask the governor for a
Speaker 1: pardon or clemency. And in the years past we've had
Speaker 1: a pretty conservative Supreme Court, which is different now, But
Speaker 1: might as well try that if there's nothing else that
Speaker 1: is a strange thing in the law too in California.
Speaker 1: Is not the first time I've encountered it, where it
Speaker 1: has to you know, the underlying previous conviction stands in
Speaker 1: the way of even the governor taking an action because
Speaker 1: I believe if you knew about this case, he would
Speaker 1: want to. But I think the best thing to do
Speaker 1: is to hope for parole, hope that the d A
Speaker 1: does not oppose parole. Kevin comes out for parole, I
Speaker 1: think in another year or two thirteen, next year, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: But even better is to have the new DA take
Speaker 1: a look at this case and admit that Kevin was
Speaker 1: wrongfully convicted. Kevin, what would you like people to do
Speaker 1: or or or to know? Well, I know I did
Speaker 1: the right team when I went to the police, and
Speaker 1: then I total school team, a total school for injury.
Speaker 1: Even now I don't regret doing the right team because
Speaker 1: it was my friend of life and it was important
Speaker 1: for his mother to know the food would happened to
Speaker 1: a son. I would be saying thing, you know, I
Speaker 1: will still go to the police, I'll sell set of food.
Speaker 1: Maybe I wouldn't say that while I'm in jail. It's
Speaker 1: also me a lot. I've lost like seven teens family members.
Speaker 1: My mom's has spoke a few years ago. It lost
Speaker 1: me a lot. But I was still doing even at
Speaker 1: all this time and all this time in prison, have
Speaker 1: there been any like moments of little rays of light
Speaker 1: that poked their head into such a dark place, And
Speaker 1: was there a particular moment where you almost lost hope?
Speaker 1: Sort of the darkest moment for you. I found ruin
Speaker 1: the last five years, so I'm had pitched finally with
Speaker 1: God and myself. So now it's like, you know what,
Speaker 1: there's nothing I can do about what they've done. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna let them take what's left that I got
Speaker 1: my speed and now my family is proud of me,
Speaker 1: even though I've never done nothing, because I've saved in
Speaker 1: my life. So it's been drunk time, trusting a lot,
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna pushing. I'm gonna keep dolinging. I got you,
Speaker 1: so I got I mean, I'm just sitting here with
Speaker 1: a heavy uh sort of note in my stomach, just
Speaker 1: the fact that, uh, I mean, fifty nine year old man,
Speaker 1: you spent almost twice as long in prison as you
Speaker 1: were free. You're no threat to society. This is what
Speaker 1: the pro board is for. You know, this man needs
Speaker 1: to go home. I'm going to stay optimistic and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna tell you we're gonna do everything we can. And
Speaker 1: I feel like society owes you a debt and an apology.
Speaker 1: And UM, all we can do is is bring as
Speaker 1: much attention as we can and trying to bring this
Speaker 1: to the attention of the people who can make a
Speaker 1: difference in this case, try to make it right, all right.
Speaker 1: So we have a a very special section segment of
Speaker 1: this show. Um, that's my favorite part, and this is
Speaker 1: what we call closing arguments. I first of all, thank
Speaker 1: you both. So first of all, Stephen kay Howser attorney,
Speaker 1: thank you for being here with us today. And Kevin
Speaker 1: Dyke's what can I say? Man, you are inspiring guy.
Speaker 1: From what little I know you just from this call,
Speaker 1: I can tell your spirit is coming through the wire
Speaker 1: all the way across the country and it's going to
Speaker 1: be going out to a lot of people. So thank
Speaker 1: you for sharing your thoughts and being so courageous here today.
Speaker 1: Thank you problem And now I turned my microphone off
Speaker 1: and I just leave my headphones on, close my eyes
Speaker 1: and let you both talk about whatever you want for
Speaker 1: the last few minutes of the show. Kevin, we're gonna
Speaker 1: save you for last if that's okay. And Stephen, please
Speaker 1: just share whatever it is that's on your mind. Well, uh, Kevin,
Speaker 1: let's hope this is another step to get you out
Speaker 1: of prison. It's been a long, long road, but I
Speaker 1: won't give up ever, and Kevin over to you. I'm thankful,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's just taking me a long time.
Speaker 1: But I mean, like the last five years now and
Speaker 1: my life now still have purpose and meanings despite what
Speaker 1: they've done. Oh no, fel feelings force nobody. He is
Speaker 1: what he is the deal they need off a long
Speaker 1: my life. I was twenty four years off, fifty nine.
Speaker 1: Now I've been sixty next year. I've been seen over
Speaker 1: five years. So it's like this en and I can't
Speaker 1: you can. I don't control it, but I won't live
Speaker 1: what they've done to me back then. Think something to me.
Speaker 1: Now I'm free, you know inside, and I'm at and
Speaker 1: and even if I die in here, I'll be at peace. Lord.
Speaker 1: I still for the shop, and for once, I did
Speaker 1: the right then as an adult for my family. I
Speaker 1: wasn't always a criminal. When they came in to some
Speaker 1: of my life and death, I needed you the right
Speaker 1: thing for once. Some of my parents were proud of them.
Speaker 1: That's not I said. You would keep my mind focusing
Speaker 1: on what's possible, what could be possible, and how to
Speaker 1: help us it is for giving the opportunity this guy
Speaker 1: family and my community where I see them. You know,
Speaker 1: I won't let nothing take that from me. That's all
Speaker 1: I have. You know, I appreciate everything that's you guys
Speaker 1: were doing, and I appreciate support for me a boy,
Speaker 1: whether it should have governed people, whoever can be done
Speaker 1: to help me. It is truth, the absolute foods in
Speaker 1: front of people, and they let them deciding. Ked so
Speaker 1: I need to be punished for what I needed if
Speaker 1: they say so, because opportunity. But here I was worried
Speaker 1: from my life to hear from my life at the time,
Speaker 1: but I did what I believe he was writing and
Speaker 1: I don't really join it. Don't forget to give us
Speaker 1: a fantastic review wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps.
Speaker 1: And I'm a proud donor to the Innocence Project and
Speaker 1: I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very
Speaker 1: important cause and helping to prevent future wrong for convictions.
Speaker 1: Go to Innocence Project dot org to learn how to
Speaker 1: donate and get involved. I'd like to thank our production team,
Speaker 1: Connor Hall and Kevin Ardis. The music on the show
Speaker 1: is by three time Oscar nominated composer Jay Alph. Be
Speaker 1: sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and
Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason
Speaker 1: Flom is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in
Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number one