1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: As a child. In the late nineteen seventies, Kevin Dykes 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: accidentally killed his best friend when they were playing with 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: a gun, sending him to Juvie for involuntary manslaughter. When 4 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: he got out, he turned to petty drug dealing in Compton, California. 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: Fast forward to nineteen eighty six. After a terrible assault 6 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: that led to a four month hospital stint, Kevin continued 7 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: peddling drugs from his temporary wheelchair for two men named 8 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: Slim and Hondo. Kevin rented a bed and a trailer 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: home in his landlord's driveway, where Slim and Hondo occasionally 10 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: hit weapons. That June, two incidents occurred just days apart, 11 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: resulting in one murder and two attempted murders. The first 12 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: during a party when Kevin booted his friend Ephram for 13 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: being belligerently drunk. Slim and Hondo followed he from stabbing 14 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: him several times. A neighborhood mother, Missus Bradley, came to 15 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: Ephram's aid, only to get stabbed as well. Kevin intervened, 16 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: jumping from his wheelchair to stop the assault before it 17 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: turned fatal. A few days later, Slim and Honda accused 18 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: Kevin's friend Otis Perry of stealing their gun from Kevin's 19 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: trailer home, stabbing him eighty one times. Unable to stop 20 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: the murderous frenzy and fearing for his own life, Kevin 21 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: helped them clean up before going to the police a 22 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: few hours later. A few days after that, Kevin was 23 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: arrested for cocaine possession and put into a special holding 24 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: tank for state's witnesses. Then three jailhouse snitches claimed that 25 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: Kevin had confessed to all three attacks in exchange for 26 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: leniency in their own cases. Kevin Dykes is serving life 27 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: in prison on the word of three notorious jailhouse snitches. 28 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,559 Speaker 1: This is Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. 29 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 2: This is Global TILLNK. You have a prepaid calls from 30 00:01:55,000 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 2: here an inmate ent to California State Prison, Los Angeles Countycaster, California. 31 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 2: This call and our telephone number will be monitored and recorded. 32 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 2: To accept this call, say or dial five now. Thank 33 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 2: you for using Globaltail Link. 34 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flomp. Today. We 35 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: have an incredible story, so we're going to get right 36 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: into it, and I'm going to introduce you first to 37 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: Stephen K. Houser. He's a criminal defense attorney representing the 38 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: star of this episode, Kevin Dike. Stephen, Welcome to Wrongful Conviction. 39 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 3: Thank you, glad to be here. 40 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: And Kevin Dykes is on the phone with us from prison, 41 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: and I hope we'll be able to do something about 42 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: his situation because it is awful. Kevin. I'm sorry you're 43 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: here or where you are, but I'm happy you're here 44 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 1: with us today. So thank you for being here. 45 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 4: Thank you for the opportory. 46 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: This case goes back to Compton nineteen eighty six, and 47 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,519 Speaker 1: it's got It's got so much that you'll think of 48 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 1: talking about a movie script that would be too much 49 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,119 Speaker 1: to be believed, except for it's real. It's got gangster's 50 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: name Hondo and Slim. It's got drugs. It's got snitches 51 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: that ended up on sixty minutes. It's got laws that changed, 52 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,679 Speaker 1: and victims who testified that this was not the guy 53 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: who did it. It's got a guy who's in prison 54 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: for three and a half decades with no evidence against 55 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: him except the testimony of jail house snitches who have 56 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: recanted their testimony. It is nuts, but it's true. So 57 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: let's get right into it, and Kevin, let's start with 58 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: you going back to your youth, because you grew up 59 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: in Compton. 60 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 4: Right, Yes, I grew up good too, Gray at home 61 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 4: in the pop Water Sport. I actually had a real 62 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 4: good up bringing. In two, I think it's actually three, 63 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 4: I ended up actually killing my best friend. I went 64 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 4: for a CHERI mayor flather and I will stick at. 65 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 3: YAS And for those of you who don't know, YA 66 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 3: or CYA is the California Youth Authority. 67 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: As I unders standard, your friend's death was entirely accidental, 68 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: just two kids who made a big mistake playing with 69 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: a gun. But they still sent you away to juvie 70 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: for involuntary manslaughter. And I also understand that you harbor 71 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: a lot of guilt about this. Even though the family 72 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: forgave you, yes, just family. 73 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 4: They stayed directly across the street from my family, even 74 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 4: to the they still feel on the same street. Although 75 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 4: the family had forgiven me, written me letters and will 76 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 4: come to see me. When I got out, I saw 77 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 4: what idea to that family, and I didn't know how 78 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 4: to propter. Although my mother and my father and my 79 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 4: grandmother and all kinds of people were trying to help me. 80 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 4: I didn't know how to ask for their help that 81 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 4: I actually needed, so I got de gris root de 82 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 4: grit to the game. 83 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: So the guilt kind of derailed your potential, it seems. 84 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: And after Juvie, you start dealing drugs and looking outside 85 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: of what seemed like a supportive home for what it 86 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: was that you felt you needed, acceptance, identity, whatever, out 87 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: in the street. So fast forward to January nineteen eighty six. 88 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: Some other really bad stuff happens. 89 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 4: January eighteenth, So I try to cheating them me. They 90 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 4: try to cheat them in front of my house. I 91 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 4: followed them. They ran me through a brick wall and 92 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 4: he both my hit and smashed my films. So I 93 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 4: went at the hospital eighteenth in knowledge and May forties. 94 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 4: When I got out of the hospital, I was in 95 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 4: a wheelchair and I had a walker, and I was 96 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 4: all to a therapy. 97 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: Yes, someone tried to kidnap Kevin, so you fought them off, 98 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: and they ended up hitting you with their car against 99 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 1: a brick wall, broke your hips, snapped your pelvis, and 100 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: put you in the hospital for four months. I mean, 101 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: you're lucky to even be alive, and we haven't even 102 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: gotten to the part that has you locked up right now. Okay, 103 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: so it's May nineteen eighty six. You're temporarily in this 104 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: wheelchair doing physical therapy and dealing drugs for these two 105 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: mid level management drug dealers named Slim and Hondo. 106 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 3: Slim and Hondo decided that they were going to take 107 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 3: over the local drug sales. I believe they helped Kevin 108 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 3: and some of his friends with small amounts of cocaine 109 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 3: to sell in the neighborhood, and they would periodically show 110 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 3: up and I guess resupply the local sellers, including Kevin 111 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 3: and Kevin. 112 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 1: You were renting a place to stay from a man 113 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: named mister Bryce. You were renting a bed in this 114 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: mobile home that sat in his driveway, right. 115 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 4: Yes, I was a fan and mister Bryce's mobile hole. 116 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 4: We had a mobile home. They had like six days, 117 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,559 Speaker 4: the shower and all that stuff inside. It was parked 118 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 4: in the driveway. Sometimes my friends us supposed to stay. 119 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 4: They had like six places, well, sleeping there. 120 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 3: So Oltis is coming in sleeping there, and Otis is 121 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 3: Otis Perry who occasionally stayed at mister Bryce's mobile home. 122 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 3: And he's the one that was eventually stabbed by Slim 123 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 3: and Hondo for taking the gun that they had left 124 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 3: in the trailer. The night that these two attempted murders 125 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 3: occurred outside a party at mister Bryce's house. 126 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 4: Yes, also, my cousin Pam was inside of the mobile home. 127 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 4: I was inside the house where the party was there 128 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 4: when the fighting. When the fight after, so I didn't 129 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 4: know this was out there at the time. And I 130 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 4: know Slim pulls up. They knew mister Bryce didn't allow 131 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 4: gus in his house, but they here to gun in 132 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 4: the mobile home. Well, my cousin and OSTs, but I 133 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 4: still didn't know nothing about that at that time. 134 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: Okay, so now the stage is finally set for these 135 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: crimes to take place. This is we're talking June nineteenth, 136 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six. There's a little party going on at 137 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: mister Bryce's Your friend Otis and your cousin Pam are 138 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: in the mobile home in the driveway. Slim and Hondo, 139 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: your bosses, come to hang out, but out of respect 140 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: for mister Bryce, they leave their gun in the mobile home. 141 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: Then your friend Ephim is at the party and he 142 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: is drunk. To say the least, is my older homeboy. 143 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 4: He was young beingligerate and uh messing with the females. 144 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 4: I was up in there grabbing drinks that didn't belong 145 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 4: to him, and I saw man go down to the 146 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 4: pool man keep back. I got and he kept on. 147 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 4: So I got pissed off and I hit him once. 148 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 4: And when I hit him, hand slam both of them attacking. 149 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 4: Because of them, I here's what they see it, he said. 150 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 4: I didn't understand why did they get involved in there? 151 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 4: Here's what they said, because I should barely walk. They 152 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 4: people were taking advantage of my disability. 153 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: Okay, so your drug bosses are sticking up for you, 154 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: but then they go way beyond what you would ever 155 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: want them to do. 156 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 4: Yes, So once I stuck both of them attacking, I 157 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 4: got them to stop sold instantly he left and then 158 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 4: they chased him down the street. They caught him at 159 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 4: the end of the corner. Once I got down there, 160 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 4: I saw that he was actually stabbing. When I hollered, 161 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 4: Hondo leaving alone, Hondo, He's little step and saw me. 162 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,319 Speaker 4: But when he saw me, he saw Miss Bradley behind me. 163 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,839 Speaker 4: Miss Bradley is my older home was mother. When she 164 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 4: looked up and saw that it was her son, she 165 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 4: tried to turn and run. He ran her down, grabbed 166 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 4: her by her dress, and saw her stabbing her. I 167 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 4: hopped my way to him and grabbed him to see 168 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 4: him off of her, and once I was holdingly, she 169 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 4: got loose. We gave you some time to get up, 170 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 4: and then I got to convinced him to get into 171 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 4: the car and drove them off. I drove off to 172 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 4: a motel, and then I came back to check on 173 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 4: Ephraim and miss Bradley, but the amlas already came in. 174 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 4: There was a hospital. 175 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: So you basically saved Missus Bradley and Ephraim from being 176 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: murdered by slimming Hondo by convincing them to stop stabbing 177 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: them and drive away from the scene. But this incident 178 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: on June nineteenth is what becomes two charges of attempted 179 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,439 Speaker 1: murder that gets stuck on you. The guy confined to 180 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:20,199 Speaker 1: a wheelchair at the time. Yeah, okay, So Slim and 181 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: Hondo stabbed both Ephraim and Missus Bradley. You drove them 182 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: to a motel. At some point, your friend otis back 183 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: at the mobile home takes the gun Slim and Hondo 184 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: had left behind. Not too smart, by the way, because 185 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 1: Slim and Hondo knew who was in the mobile home 186 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: when they stashed it in the first place, so they 187 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: come looking for Otis. 188 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 4: On June twenty third, June twenty thirty, he came overs 189 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 4: looking for Otis like Wilson in the morning. They said, 190 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 4: come outside, I'm going to go to your olds. I 191 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 4: didn't know Olis's out here in the motor holes. So 192 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 4: when I went up to the front, York Jordan open 193 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,439 Speaker 4: oldest steps out, hands packed over this, say there with 194 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 4: my gun. He said, we can go get it. He 195 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 4: said too late, and then catching they started fighting. All 196 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 4: this was fighting back for they were fighting him from 197 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 4: the side of the mother hole. He went around the 198 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 4: garage and that was the first time I saw him 199 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,559 Speaker 4: being stand and I came back from around there. I 200 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,599 Speaker 4: wasn't neighboring water or whatever, so didn't say nothing, and 201 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 4: if listening to everything that was going on. And I 202 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 4: don't know how the much time passed, but gave Honolds 203 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 4: came from around there and it was no more noise. 204 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 4: I was wondering them, okay, now what he said, Uh, 205 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 4: wolves up, you got some recume And then I gave 206 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 4: him my blanket. So him was swinging, went behind the 207 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 4: fane and wrapped him up, drugged him out, and put 208 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 4: him in the car. And then instead of him a 209 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 4: slim boy, he said, you said you stay here watching 210 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 4: down all the blood that was coming from behind the 211 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 4: mother hole, and showed me to get in the car 212 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 4: and ride with him. So I took him over through 213 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 4: my own boys neighborhood by the canal, and that's where 214 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 4: he jumped in and I said, look, I'll be back. 215 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 4: I left the ever same day. 216 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 1: And what would you tell anyone listening now who's wondering 217 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,439 Speaker 1: why you played any part in getting rid of the 218 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: body with Slim and Hondo. 219 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 4: I did with any reasonable person not trying to die, 220 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 4: I would have done hadn't seen what I saw. I 221 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 4: knew I gotta do something that made myself a part 222 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 4: of what's going on. And I wasn't a physically able 223 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 4: to do nothing to prevent myself from being killed. And 224 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 4: I'm swissed in that was the smartest thing that I 225 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,079 Speaker 4: could have done at the time for myself, instead of 226 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 4: doing nothing. 227 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,439 Speaker 1: If you had done nothing at all, what do you 228 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: think Slim and Hondo would have done. 229 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 4: I was a little bit too afraid to find out. 230 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 4: I was in a position where something happened to my 231 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 4: friend Donalds to know where I stood, and I did 232 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 4: what I thought was the best thing to do for 233 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 4: my film that I too for older now about saying 234 00:12:58,320 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 4: my film. 235 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: This episode is sponsored by AIG, a leading global insurance company, 236 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: and Paul Weiss Rifkin, Wharton and Garrison, a leading international 237 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: law firm. The AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal 238 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 1: services and other support to many nonprofit organizations and individuals 239 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,599 Speaker 1: most in need, and recently they announced that working to 240 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: reform the criminal justice system will become a key pillar 241 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: of the program's mission. Paul Weiss has long had an 242 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: unwavering commitment to providing impactful pro bono legal assistance to 243 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: the most vulnerable members of our society and in support 244 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: of the public interest, including extensive work in the criminal 245 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: justice area. Otis's murderer eventually gets pinned on you, the 246 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: guy who was only able to watch or listen helplessly, 247 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:03,839 Speaker 1: has your friend got stabbed to death, and then, in 248 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 1: order to save your own life, you did what probably 249 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: any of us would have done. You played along with 250 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: Slim and Hondo until you could get away. I would 251 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: not want to have been in your shoes. At that point, 252 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: you just lost your brand. Otis you had to contend 253 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: with the question of to snitch or not to snitch 254 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: on like a sophie's choice on these two murderous drug dealers. 255 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 4: That's when I was trying to process whatever it just 256 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 4: happened to show. Thirty seven o'clock in the morning, That's 257 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 4: when I saw the police and I told that I 258 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 4: knew who it was. Would always said, come over here 259 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 4: and look, I knew it was. I said, I know 260 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 4: where he lives, to his mother's house. And then when 261 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 4: we say back to the scene, I asked my saying, 262 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 4: look if I had any information, talk on our contract, 263 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 4: and he gave me his car. I took your car 264 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 4: rode Mouth two. While I was to the phone booth, 265 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 4: I called a police you look and I told everything 266 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 4: they need to know. It's a little while was there. 267 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 4: They came and kicked me up, shook me out to 268 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 4: the station, and I made the cap. Maybe once I 269 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 4: made the cake, they let me go out back home. 270 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: So you made a statement to a sergeant. Sergeant Preston 271 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: and you're going to be a witness, and Steve, maybe 272 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: you can tell us about the next part of the story, 273 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: which is how Kevin was picked up for cocaine possession. 274 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: Sometime later, and while in the state's witness holding area 275 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: of La County Jail, he eventually meets three guys who 276 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: are responsible for him being in this horrible predicament today. 277 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 3: What happened was Kevin got arrested for a possession of 278 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 3: cocaine charge, and because he was the main witness against 279 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 3: Slim and Hondo on a murder case, they put him 280 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 3: in with other prosecution witnesses and it's commonly called the 281 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 3: snitch Tank, which is a separate jail from the men's 282 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 3: central jail. And while Kevin was in there, he told 283 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 3: his cellmate, Willie Battle and the guy that was in 284 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 3: the next sel over, Jesse Williams. He told them what 285 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 3: actually happened because they asked, and that's very common in jail, 286 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 3: what are he in for? And they exchanged information, but 287 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 3: this time it only came from Kevin. He told him 288 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 3: what happened, and they twisted it around and ran with it. 289 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 3: And then they called the Compton Police Department and asked 290 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 3: them if they had a murder case where the body 291 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 3: was found by a canal. They called it a canal. 292 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 3: It's really a drainage ditch. And they put him in 293 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 3: contact with Detective Marvin Branscombe, who was not sergeant to Preston, 294 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 3: who Kevin gave the statement to, and they convinced Branscomb 295 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 3: that what they had to say was true, which they 296 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 3: said that Kevin confessed to these tempted murders and murder. 297 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 4: They say, we got a guy on here bragging about 298 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 4: chilling his guy with lady is telling the big time, 299 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 4: don't it. So I end up going from being the 300 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 4: actual witness to now being the actual killer. 301 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 3: So Kevin became a defendant instead of the prosecution witness, 302 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 3: and they moved him out of the snitch tank to 303 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 3: another part of the jail. So Kevin's transferred over to 304 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 3: the central jail, and then he met a very notorious 305 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 3: snitch named Leslie White. And I get a call from 306 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 3: Leslie White. I'd never heard of Leslie White. Leslie White says, 307 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 3: I understand you're defending Kevin Dyke's and that he has 308 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 3: been ratted out by two snitches. And I said that's 309 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 3: exactly right. He says, well, I can help you. You 310 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,719 Speaker 3: come down here and I'm going to tell you all 311 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 3: about the snitch system and how it works. Okay, So 312 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 3: I go down to the jail. I talked to Leslie White. 313 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 3: He tells me about how inmates get a hold of 314 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 3: paperwork and change fact and get a hold of the 315 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 3: detective or DA that's handling a particular murder case. And 316 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 3: because they know these unique facts, they can convince the 317 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 3: detective or district attorney that's handling the case that this 318 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 3: confession was a valid confession. So I said, well, that 319 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 3: sounds good. Okay, I'll put you on the witness list, 320 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 3: mister White. So about a week or two later, I 321 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,479 Speaker 3: get the witness list from the district attorney and Leslie 322 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 3: White is on there as a people's witness. And not 323 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 3: only that, I get a report that says that Kevin 324 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 3: Dyke's confessed to Leslie White. And I'm flabbergasted because I 325 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 3: just talked to Leslie White and he was going to 326 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 3: be a witness for Kevin. So I go down to 327 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 3: the jail and I call out Leslie White and he's 328 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 3: willing to come and talk to me, and I said, 329 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 3: what do you are? You a witness for the prosecution now, 330 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 3: he says yep. I said, well, you know that Kevin's innocent. 331 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 3: Why do you do what? How can you do that? 332 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 3: And he says, well, man's got to do what he's 333 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 3: got to do. That's what he said. 334 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: I gotta be honest. My head is spinning. And I 335 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: didn't even live through this. I mean, this is Kevin. 336 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm so sorry that you're living this is that, 337 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: this is your life we're talking about. 338 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 4: I didn't actually believe that what was going on was 339 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 4: even possible. I didn't think that this stuff would hold. 340 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 4: I'm like, what hold? I'm an actual eye withness. These 341 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 4: guys they don't know nothing about where I lived, but 342 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 4: nothing about what actually happened. So I didn't really believe 343 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 4: the people could do what they were what they were 344 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 4: doing to me. I had never even heard about that before. 345 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: I mean, this is this is like nothing. I don't 346 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: think we've ever heard a story like this before. So Steven, 347 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 1: what happens next? 348 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 3: When we got to court, all they had was his 349 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 3: statement to Sergeant Preston and three snitches, and I couldn't 350 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 3: believe that they would even want to proceed with this evidence. 351 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 3: But they did, and just before the verdict was issued, 352 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 3: I told Kevin, I said, now Kevin, when you get 353 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 3: out of here, you've got to change your ways, be 354 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 3: a law abiding citizen and then used to society, and 355 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 3: he said, yeah, came mister Houser, I'm going to do that, 356 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 3: came back guilty. We were both floored. 357 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: You were sentenced to twenty four years to life. Here 358 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: it is now twenty twenty. You're still in Can you 359 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 1: just take us back there, put us in that courtroom 360 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:37,120 Speaker 1: with you if you can. 361 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 4: I actually should not believe the verbiant. Yeah, I actually 362 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 4: in the fine. I just see how it was possible. Yeah, 363 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 4: I was askual eye witness. I came for. I gave 364 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 4: him everything they needed, all evidence to car the weather. 365 00:20:55,800 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 4: The people from testified that I didn't attack. People will 366 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 4: stand by thirty three times at least fighter I didn't attacking, 367 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 4: And it just fires that I didn't attack Ms. Browning. 368 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 4: That was my friend mother. There was nobody here. You'll say, okay, anybody. 369 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: But and this is something I really need to highlight here, 370 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: which is that if you go in a jury box 371 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: and you're presented with a case where someone's life is 372 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: hanging into balance, just like Kevin's was, and there's no 373 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: evidence connecting that person's at a crime except for the 374 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: testimony of a snitch, you cannot vote to convict because 375 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: it's crazy. I mean, these are people who are clearly incentivized. 376 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 1: They may not tell you that at the time, but 377 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 1: you have to understand that the defense can never bribe 378 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: a witness. That's it. That's a crime punishable by long 379 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: time in jail. But the government can make a deal 380 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,120 Speaker 1: with a snitch to reduce their charges or drop their 381 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: charges in exchange for testimony, and that is the best 382 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: bribe of all. So it's the most unreliable testimony imaginable. 383 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: And here you have a case where the direct evidence 384 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: contradicts what the snitches were saying. The evidence showed that 385 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: Kevin could not have committed this crime, and yet he 386 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 1: ends up getting convicted on the testimony of people who 387 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 1: were notoriously untrustworthy and were incentivised to lie. 388 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 4: Mister Holliard found evidence where they get apartments. They say, oh, 389 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 4: he's grit in my family. So the government gives him 390 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 4: money to relocate them move in apartments. All of them 391 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 4: ended up getting reduced sients left white ended up getting 392 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 4: out at such five and gives me, I don't know 393 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,159 Speaker 4: if you remember this thousand. He came right back an 394 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 4: he threatened thesis attorney, if you don't bake me back out, 395 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 4: I'm gonna blow his whole case up. You remember, miss out. 396 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 3: What happened was Leslie White then went on sixty minutes 397 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,640 Speaker 3: when he was back in again in in the jail, 398 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 3: and he showed on camera how he could work his 399 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 3: magic and get favors from the DA. And then when 400 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 3: I saw that, I went down and talked to Leslie White. 401 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 3: I said, well, now I know for sure you lied 402 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 3: in Kevin's case, and he said, yeah, I did. And 403 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 3: I said, well, I want you to sign an affidavit 404 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 3: that you lied in Kevin's case because Kevin deserves a 405 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 3: new trial. And so sure enough he signed it. But 406 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 3: instead of giving Kevin a new trial, the DA indicted 407 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 3: him Leslie White with a grand jury, had me come 408 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 3: in and testify, and they gave Leslie White four years 409 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 3: for perjury. They gave Kevin Dykes nothing. And that's where 410 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 3: it sat. It's all so backwards and upside down. 411 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: And of course, you know, we have two more characters 412 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: that are coming up, with Gigi Gordon, who's on the 413 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 1: right side of this story, and Willie battles. We can't 414 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: leave him out. 415 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:02,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, When this snitch system came out, thanks to Leslie White, 416 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 3: believe it or not, Gigi Gordon was appointed. She's a 417 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,439 Speaker 3: defense lawyer. She's deceased now, but she was a criminal 418 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 3: defense lawyer. Friend of mine, and Jigi Gordon was appointed 419 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 3: by i think the Supreme Court to do an independent 420 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 3: investigation on all of the snitch cases to see if 421 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 3: justice was done. And she spent over a year on 422 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 3: this project, being paid by the state of California. And 423 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 3: as a result of Gigi Gordon's research and investigation, a 424 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 3: law was introduced in the legislature to require corroboration if 425 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 3: snitch testimony is going to be used in a case. 426 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: And that happened, but they didn't do it retroactively. Am 427 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: I getting that right? Because it always drives me nuts 428 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: when we change a law in this country and we 429 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,479 Speaker 1: don't do it retroactively. How could it be different now 430 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: than it was before. It doesn't make sense. 431 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 3: Didn't make any sense to me. That's why I appealed it. 432 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 3: We went to the Appellate Court in California, then the 433 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 3: Supreme Court, and actually when we went to the Supreme Court, 434 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 3: the first time, the law had not been changed yet. 435 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 3: But then we went back to the Supreme Court on 436 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 3: another issue, and the law had been changed. And in 437 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 3: federal court, the judge actually said that Kevin might be innocent, 438 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 3: but there's nothing I can do because this law is 439 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 3: not retroactive or something to that effect. And I just 440 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 3: thought that that was the most unjust result I've ever 441 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 3: had in my whole career. 442 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: Still is wow. 443 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:45,160 Speaker 3: And so, if Kevin's case were tried now, they wouldn't 444 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:49,360 Speaker 3: have any evidence against him because the only incriminating evidence 445 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 3: was from the snitch testimony. 446 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,640 Speaker 1: If Kevin's case were to be tried now, they would 447 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: have no evidence against him. And yet it's thirty four 448 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 1: years later and he's I can't this is nuts. 449 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 3: I went to the district attorney with that very argument. 450 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 3: With each new district attorney that came in, I would 451 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 3: go talk to him and they told me that because 452 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 3: of his statement admitting what he did pretending to go 453 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 3: along with what Slim and Honda were doing, because of 454 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 3: that statement, that made him guilty. And they said, sorry, 455 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 3: you have to present new evidence to us before we're 456 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 3: going to recommend anything for Kevin. And I said, what's 457 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 3: the matter. With these confessions by these snitches, that's new evidence. 458 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 3: At least since the trial. Two out of three Leslie 459 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 3: White signed an affidavit that sent him put himself in prison, 460 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 3: and Jesse Williams signed a letter saying that he lied 461 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 3: in Kevin's case. He said, no, we want some more 462 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 3: than that. Plus you've got one snitch that you don't have, 463 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 3: you know, retraction from Willi Battle. We never had a 464 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 3: retraction from him. And Willie Battle I tried to find, 465 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 3: but he's probably dead. So that's where we sit. 466 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: And what is the outlook now? I mean, is there hope? 467 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 3: I think Kevin has two hopes number one with a 468 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 3: new DA. I think Gascon is much more progressive than 469 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 3: Jackie Lacy. I thought Jackie Lacey was very progressive, and 470 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 3: I had high hopes for Kevin when she put together 471 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 3: her Internal Innocent project and I met with what I 472 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 3: thought was a very ethical, fine lawyer, and I got 473 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 3: a very unfavorable result. And I asked him during that hearing, 474 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 3: I said, you know, as a human being, you know, 475 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 3: do you really think that Kevin Dykes was convicted properly fairly? 476 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:14,119 Speaker 3: He wouldn't answer, He wouldn't give me an answer that 477 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,120 Speaker 3: was the guy in charge of Jackie Lacy's internal innocence project. 478 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: And in case people think there's not enough here, already 479 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 1: we have a case where the victim's family doesn't hold 480 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: Kevin responsible. I think anybody coming out of you know, 481 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,239 Speaker 1: high school would look at this and go, okay, well, 482 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: this guy's in and said, let's get him home. But 483 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: the way the laws are set up, it's really really 484 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: difficult even in a case like this with so much 485 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: compelling evidence of not just reasonable doubt, but evidence of 486 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: actual innocence. And now the next step really and luckily 487 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: we have a great governor my opinion, of course, the 488 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: great governor of the state of California, Gavin Newsom. What 489 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: is the process for trying to get this on his ask? 490 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 3: The law in California is that if you've done state 491 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 3: prison time, you have to go to the Supreme Court 492 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 3: before you can petition the governor on a different case. 493 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 3: Because of that prior conviction for involuntary manslaughter, Kevin can't 494 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 3: go to the Governor's office. I can't go on his 495 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 3: behalf to the governor. You have to petition the Supreme 496 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 3: Court and get permission from them to ask the governor 497 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 3: for a pardon or clemency. And in the years past 498 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 3: we've had a pretty conservative Supreme Court, which is different now, 499 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 3: But as well try that if there's nothing else. 500 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: That is a strange thing in the law too. In California. 501 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: Is not the first time I've encountered it where it 502 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: has to you know, the underlying previous conviction stands in 503 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: the way of even the governor taking an action, because 504 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: I believe if he knew about this case, he would 505 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: want to. 506 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 3: But I think the best thing to do is to 507 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 3: hope for parole, hope that the DA does not oppose parole. 508 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 3: Think Kevin comes up for parole, I think in another 509 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 3: year or two. 510 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 4: The SEVERER thirteenth next year. 511 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, well, but even better is to have the 512 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 3: new DA take a look at this case and admit 513 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 3: that Kevin was wrongfully convicted. 514 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: Kevin, what would you like people to do or or 515 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: to know? 516 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 4: Well, I know I need the right things, and I 517 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 4: went to the police hand and hide, throw the food. 518 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 4: Then I tow the food firm and jury. Even now 519 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 4: I don't regret doing the right thing because it was 520 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 4: my friend's life and it was important for his mother 521 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 4: to know the food. What happened to her son, I 522 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 4: was e same thing. You know, I will still go 523 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 4: through the police. I'll still set the food. Maybe I 524 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 4: wouldn't say that while I'm in jail. It cost me 525 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:52,479 Speaker 4: a lot. I've lost like seventeen family members. My mom's 526 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 4: had spoke a few years ago. Now, it cost me 527 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 4: a lot, But I was still doing it even after 528 00:30:58,440 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 4: all this. 529 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,239 Speaker 1: Time, and all this time in prison, have there been 530 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: any like moments of little rays of light that poked 531 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: their head into such a dark place? And was there 532 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 1: a particular moment where you almost lost hope? It's sort 533 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: of the darkest moment for you. 534 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 4: I found Lorrd the last five years, so I'm a 535 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 4: finished finding with God in myself. So now it's like, 536 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 4: you know what, there's nothing I can do about what 537 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 4: they've done. I'm not gonna let them take what's left 538 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 4: that I got in my spear. And now my family's 539 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 4: proud of me, even though I've never done nothing, because 540 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,719 Speaker 4: I've saved my life. So it's real dark time, trusting 541 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 4: a lot, but I'm gonna keep push them. I'm gonna 542 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 4: keep believing I got to so I. 543 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: Got I mean, I'm just sitting here with a heavy 544 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: sort of nod in my stomach, just the fact that 545 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: I mean, you're fifty nine year old man, you spent 546 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: almost twice as long in prison as you were free. 547 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: Your no threat to society. This is what the par 548 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: board is for. You know, Well, this man needs to 549 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: go home. I'm going to stay optimistic and I'm going 550 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: to tell you We're going to do everything we can. 551 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: And I feel like society owes you a debt and 552 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: an apology, and all we can do is bring as 553 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: much attention as we can and trying to bring this 554 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: to the attention of the people who can make a 555 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 1: difference in this case, try to make it right. 556 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 3: All right. 557 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: So we have a very special section segment of this show. 558 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: That's my favorite part, and this is what we call 559 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: closing arguments. I first of all, thank you both. So 560 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 1: first of all, Stephen K. Hawser Attorney, thank you for 561 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: being here with us today. 562 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 4: Thank you. 563 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 3: It's a privilege. 564 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: And Kevin Dyke, what can I say? 565 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 4: Man? 566 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: You are inspiring guy. From what little I know you, 567 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: just from this call, I can tell your spirit is 568 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,959 Speaker 1: coming through the wire all the way across the country 569 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: and it's going to be going out to a lot 570 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: of people, So thank you for sharing your thoughts and 571 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: being so courageous here today problem and now I turned 572 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: my microphone off, uh and I just leave my headphones on, 573 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: close my eyes and let you both talk about whatever 574 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: you want for the last few minutes of the show. Kevin, 575 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: we're gonna save you for last if that's okay. And Stephen, 576 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: please just share whatever it is that's on your mind. 577 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 4: Uh. 578 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 3: Well, Kevin, let's hope this is another step to get 579 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 3: you out of prison. It's been a long long road, 580 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 3: but I won't give up ever. 581 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: Kevin, over to you. 582 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 4: I'm thankful, you know. And it's taking me a long time, 583 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,719 Speaker 4: but I'm at it like the last five years now, 584 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 4: and my life now still has purpose and meaning despite 585 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 4: what they've done. I owe no feel feelings, force nobody. 586 00:33:55,400 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 4: He is what he is as a lost life. I 587 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 4: was twenty four years old, fifty nine now I've been 588 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 4: sixty there this year. I've been seen over five years. 589 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 4: So it's like there's nothing else that I can't do 590 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 4: because I don't console it. But I won't let what 591 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 4: they've done to me back then, excepting to me now. 592 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 4: I'm free, you know, inside, and I'm at peace, and 593 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 4: even if I die in here, I'll be at peace 594 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 4: knowing I stood for the super and for once, I 595 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 4: need the right thing as an adult for my family. 596 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 4: I wasn't always a criminal. When it came in to 597 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 4: someone life and death, I needed you the right thing 598 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 4: for once, something my parents were proud of. This. Nothing 599 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:46,280 Speaker 4: I can do but keep my mind focused on what's possible, 600 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 4: what could be possible, and how to help us. It 601 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 4: is a given opportunity, this syd family in my community 602 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 4: where I see it now, you know I won't let 603 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 4: nothing take that from me. That's all I have, and 604 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 4: I appreciate everything you guys were doing, and I appreciate 605 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 4: support from me anybody, whether it's the governor, people, whoever 606 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,320 Speaker 4: can be done to help me. It is fool, the 607 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 4: absolute fool in front of people, and they let them 608 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,320 Speaker 4: deciding me. So I need to be punished for what 609 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 4: I needed if they say so, because opportunity. But hey, 610 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:20,919 Speaker 4: I was worried for my life, fear for my life 611 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 4: at the time. But I see what I believe he 612 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,239 Speaker 4: was writing and I don't really join it. 613 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: Don't forget to give us a fantastic review. Wherever you 614 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. It really helps, and I'm a proud 615 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: donor to the NSIS project, and I really hope you'll 616 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: join me in supporting this very important cause and helping 617 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocence Project dot 618 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,799 Speaker 1: org to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd 619 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 1: like to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wartis. 620 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 1: The music in the show is by three time OSCAR 621 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: nominated composer Jay. Be sure to follow us on Instagram 622 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. 623 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,879 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm is a production of Lava 624 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one