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Speaker 1: Hi guys, Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I

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Speaker 1: will be your host Emily Simpson with my co host

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Speaker 1: Shane and we don't really have any updates on any

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Speaker 1: other cases, but I thought what we could do is

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Speaker 1: at the top of every podcast episode is we just

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Speaker 1: kind of talk a little bit about the crime going

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Speaker 1: on in the week, some interesting things. So I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you've heard of this, but there is a

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Speaker 1: recent case that popped up that I found truly disturbing

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Speaker 1: yet interesting. It's Kimberly's Sullivan. I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: heard this, but so Waterbury Police and fire responded to

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Speaker 1: Kimberly Sullivan's home around eight forty two pm on February seventeenth,

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Speaker 1: So this just recently happened. Sullivan was able to evacuate

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Speaker 1: her home while her step son remained inside and was

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Speaker 1: later assisted out by Waterbury firefighters. This is what the

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Speaker 1: police said. The police report the man was suffering from

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Speaker 1: smoke inhalation and exposure to the fire. According to the department,

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Speaker 1: her step son, who is five foot nine, thirty two

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Speaker 1: years of logo that was in there for twenty years.

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Speaker 1: He weighed only sixty eight pounds sixty eight pounds. First

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Speaker 1: of all, I think our sons that are ten way

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Speaker 1: around fifty five to sixty pounds.

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Speaker 2: No, I can't even imagine.

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Speaker 1: And they are I don't even know how tall are they.

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Speaker 1: They're not even five feet tall, four feet and they're

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Speaker 1: tiny for their age and they're ten. So you're talking

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Speaker 1: about a five foot nine, thirty two year old that

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Speaker 1: weighs sixty eight pounds. So, while he was being treated,

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Speaker 1: the step son told the first responders that he intentionally

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Speaker 1: set the fire in his upstairs room using a lighter,

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Speaker 1: hand sanitizer and paper.

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Speaker 2: Oh oh smart. It was a little risky, but it

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Speaker 2: was smart. He was trying to escape.

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Speaker 1: It was yeah, he was trying to escape. He stayed in.

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Speaker 2: She just smothered her with a sanitizer, Yeah, throwing her

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Speaker 2: out the window.

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Speaker 1: Well, that was he should have furthered his plan. I

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Speaker 1: wanted my freedom. He then alleged that Sullivan, who is

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Speaker 1: his stepmom, had been held holding him captive for over

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Speaker 1: twenty years since he was eleven years old. So the

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Speaker 1: step mom was arrested wins March twelfth and held on

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Speaker 1: a three hundred thousand dollars bond over allegations of crimes

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Speaker 1: against her step son. She is accused of first degree assault,

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Speaker 1: second degree kidnapping, first degree unlawful restraint, first degree reckless endangerment,

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Speaker 1: and cruelty to persons, and she has denied all of

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Speaker 1: these allegations. She posted bond last Thursday. She appeared briefly

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Speaker 1: in Superior Court on Thursday and declined to make any

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Speaker 1: statements before the judge and denied prosecutor's request to place

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Speaker 1: her under house arrest. Sullivan will be allowed to travel

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Speaker 1: within Connecticut where this took place, though she will have

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Speaker 1: to keep in close regular contact with probation officers. She

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Speaker 1: denies all of the allegations. My first thought when I

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Speaker 1: was reading this is where is the dad? But then

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Speaker 1: as I further investigated read more about the story, the

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Speaker 1: dad had died and then the step son was left

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Speaker 1: living with the step mother. So the steps on lived

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Speaker 1: on what place described as a back storage space on

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Speaker 1: the second floor of the residence. It was an eight

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Speaker 1: foot by nine foot space that had angled ceilings with

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Speaker 1: no heat in the winter and no air conditioning in

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Speaker 1: the summer. He said that a lock had always been

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Speaker 1: on the outside of his door, and it evolved from

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Speaker 1: a chain to a padlock and eventually to one of

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Speaker 1: those slide bolt locks. So the dad died in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four, which means, yeah, the father was a part

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Speaker 1: of this, so the step home was just continuing on

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Speaker 1: with the way that this child apparently had been treated.

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Speaker 1: So following his father's death, the step son would only

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Speaker 1: be let out as this is what he alleges that

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Speaker 1: he was only allowed out one minute a day to

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Speaker 1: let the family dog out into the backyard, and that

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Speaker 1: he was locked in this small room between twenty two

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Speaker 1: to twenty four hours a day. He also alleges that

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Speaker 1: he was only fed two sandwiches and given two small

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Speaker 1: water bottles. I guess that's per day, two sandwiches and

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Speaker 1: two small water bottles, and that he was forced to

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Speaker 1: use newspapers to dispose of like when you ask go

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Speaker 1: the bathroom. In order to even bathe himself, he was

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Speaker 1: forced to ration the drinking water he was given, and

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Speaker 1: he was not provided any soaper shampoo. He hadn't had

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Speaker 1: a haircut in three years, his only He claims that

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Speaker 1: his only real connection to the outside world was a

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Speaker 1: radio that apparently was kept outside of his bedroom, so

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Speaker 1: he has a calendar in a radio. That's how he

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Speaker 1: keeps track of time. And for his education, I guess

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Speaker 1: he's only reading at a fourth grade level, but he

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Speaker 1: was given three to four books a year, and he

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Speaker 1: told police that he used the books and a dictionary

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Speaker 1: to ultimately educate himself. He also told police that he

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Speaker 1: knew hand sanitizer was flammable because he had read about that.

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Speaker 1: So that's where he came up with the plan to

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Speaker 1: start the fire, so that the fire police so that

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Speaker 1: the fire.

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Speaker 2: Is very lucky because he could have very well been trapped.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he did get lucky that he was rescued.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad to do that.

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Speaker 1: There was a former principle of this elementary school where

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Speaker 1: he used to go to, and the principal said that

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Speaker 1: there were concerns raised by teachers and him. He claims

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Speaker 1: that we knew it, we reported it, and not a

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Speaker 1: damn thing was done. That's the tragedy of this whole thing.

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Speaker 1: So apparently this kid when he was in school, when

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Speaker 1: he did go to school, that he was extremely small

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Speaker 1: and thin, and when teachers asked him questions, he told

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Speaker 1: them that he wasn't allowed to have food at home.

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Speaker 1: He said that teachers would even bring food in for

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Speaker 1: the student. After noticing that he was stealing food and

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Speaker 1: he was eating out of the garbage, the principal told

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Speaker 1: a news team in Connecticut or whatever this news cycle

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Speaker 1: is that they were on that he and his teachers.

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Speaker 1: The team made multiple calls to the boy's stepmom, Kimberly Sullivan,

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Speaker 1: and also called the Department of Children and Families at

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Speaker 1: least twenty times by the fifth grade.

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Speaker 2: What does it take to get their attention?

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Speaker 1: I have no idea. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Apparently the fire department apparently.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's his last recourse was that he had to

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Speaker 1: set a fire fire chief.

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Speaker 2: My goodness.

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Speaker 1: So by the fifth grade, he never came back to school,

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Speaker 1: and the teachers and the principill never saw him again.

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Speaker 1: And now this elementary school is closed. But I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's over twenty calls to DCF and nothing happens.

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Speaker 2: Thank goodness. He's hopefully you can transition.

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Speaker 1: Why how do you if you're sixty eight pounds, you're

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Speaker 1: completely malnourished, how do you recover from that? Is that blossful?

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Speaker 2: I would imagine it is. But it's going to take time,

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Speaker 2: and you can't just like pick out the first day

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Speaker 2: you have to slowly introduce foods and stuff.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So the question is did anyone else know? And

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Speaker 1: apparently the man said that in addition to the stepmother

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Speaker 1: and his father knowing about what was going on, he

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Speaker 1: has two half sisters and a late grandmother that we're

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Speaker 1: aware of his captivity of the boy man his name

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Speaker 1: is not given out, so we don't know what his

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Speaker 1: name is. It's kept private, but he claims that his

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Speaker 1: late father would occasionally let him out of his room

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Speaker 1: for longer periods to watch television with him or do

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Speaker 1: yard work together. He said the last time he had

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Speaker 1: actually left the property altogether was around age fourteen or fifteen,

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Speaker 1: and that was to dump yard waste with his father,

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Speaker 1: and that his captivity and restraint got even worse after

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Speaker 1: his dad's death. When asked why he didn't speak to

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Speaker 1: anyone about his experience, the man cited that the threat

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Speaker 1: of longer lockdowns and further withholding of food, and the

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Speaker 1: false hope that his stepmom would let him out more

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Speaker 1: if he earned her trust. So I guess he didn't

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Speaker 1: speak out because he was worried that there were Well, obviously,

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Speaker 1: if there's teachers and principles that know about it, and

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Speaker 1: they're making phone calls and nothing happens. This man has

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Speaker 1: no faith in humanity at all, so it's not like

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Speaker 1: he's going to go tell someone because he doesn't feel

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Speaker 1: like there's any type of And he knows that his

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Speaker 1: half siblings know, and he knows that his grandmother knows,

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Speaker 1: and he knows that his dad was involved in it.

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Speaker 1: This man was failed by everyone, not only his family,

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Speaker 1: but society. The stepmom has an attorney, and the attorney

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Speaker 1: tells people that his client, Kimberly Sullivan, was not the

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Speaker 1: one making choices about how our step son should be racing,

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Speaker 1: that it was ultimately the late husband and the boy

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Speaker 1: who was the boy's father. However, as for the victim's

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Speaker 1: allegation that he is on now.

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Speaker 2: Because she got caught, right, I mean, he died in

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Speaker 2: twenty four Why didn't she do anything? Why does she

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Speaker 2: speak up to her husband then? I mean whatever, Why

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Speaker 2: wasn't her the loser? They just need to put her

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Speaker 2: in a freaking hole and give her, you know, two

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Speaker 2: small bottles of water for twenty years. That's what they

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Speaker 2: need to do.

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Speaker 1: I agree. So the stepmamas do back in court on

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Speaker 1: March twenty six D hands her phony charges of assault

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Speaker 1: in the first degree, kidnapping, and all those other charges

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Speaker 1: that we went through. So we will see what happens

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Speaker 1: with this case. I think her defense is pretty weak.

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Speaker 1: It's basically like, oh, it was it was the dad.

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Speaker 1: I was just following through with his wishes. But this

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Speaker 1: is a terrible, terrible story.

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Speaker 2: Being named Karen doesn't help. Yes, yeah, that's another person

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Speaker 2: making that name look bad.

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Speaker 1: All right, So that was an awful story, but that

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Speaker 1: was the I'm not going to happen recently in the news,

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Speaker 1: which it is compelling. It is interesting to talk about.

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Speaker 1: I do feel sorry for him, and hopefully he gets

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Speaker 1: the help that he needs and he can move on

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Speaker 1: and be a functioning member of society. But I don't

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Speaker 1: know how you do. Not only is he physically impaired,

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Speaker 1: but socially mentally. Oh I don't know.

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Speaker 2: That guy doesn't know you? No? Was it twenty years?

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Speaker 2: My goodness?

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, let's move on to another enlightening, some

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Speaker 1: more positive. Well, it is crime, so it's not going

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Speaker 1: to be we're not going to be talking about rainbows

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Speaker 1: and unicorns. So we are doing crime. Let's move on

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Speaker 1: to the Ruby Frankie case. Now, Shane did not want

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Speaker 1: to cover this case. He does not like to talk

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Speaker 1: about child abuse. And if you've been following the case

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Speaker 1: or you saw the new Hulu documentary, you do know

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Speaker 1: that Ruby Frankie was in prison for abusing her two

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Speaker 1: youngest children is in prison. She's in prison currently for

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Speaker 1: abusing her two younger children. I think what's interesting about

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Speaker 1: this case and what there's a lot of discussion that

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Speaker 1: we can go through, is that it happened in Utah,

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Speaker 1: in Springville, which Shane and I used to live in Utah,

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Speaker 1: very near Springville. She's an LDS mom, it's an LDS family.

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Speaker 1: A lot of her I think rationale or reasoning for

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Speaker 1: doing the things that she does. She uses religion, and

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Speaker 1: I just think it's an interesting discussion to work our

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Speaker 1: way through. So you, being an active member of the

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Speaker 1: LDS church, I think that.

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Speaker 2: It's nothing to do with it. I just think you

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Speaker 2: being a female her thoughts.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm saying that I think you can add some

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Speaker 1: insight into the church's.

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Speaker 2: The insight is she didn't listen to any of the

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Speaker 2: teachings and she went did her own thing and was evil.

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Speaker 2: That's what that's it. There's no like, well, that's it.

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Speaker 2: There is no justification, there is no teaching, there's nothing

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Speaker 2: that would lead her to think this other than she's

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Speaker 2: just a mess up person. Selfish. I saw one episode.

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Speaker 2: She's awful. Chaaw she's a terrible woman.

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Speaker 1: Chasaw one episode.

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Speaker 2: That's a terrible much to take to do.

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Speaker 1: All right, Ruby Frankie, let's just give you a little

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Speaker 1: background in case you don't know the case and you

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Speaker 1: haven't watched the series. But Ruby Frankie is an American

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Speaker 1: convicted child abuser and former family vlogger who ran the

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Speaker 1: now defunct YouTube channel eight Passengers. That was called eight

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Speaker 1: Passengers because she and her husband Kevin have six children,

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Speaker 1: so there's the eight passengers. She was born in Utah

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Speaker 1: in January. She was actually born on my birthday. It

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Speaker 1: was January eighteenth of nineteen eighty two.

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Speaker 2: Oh relate? Can you relate?

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Speaker 1: Then you explain to us her thinking, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: she's a Capricorn. That's all I know. Ruby grew up

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Speaker 1: with three sisters and started a large family of her

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Speaker 1: own after marrying Kevin, who was formerly a professor of

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Speaker 1: engineering at BYU. First of all, can we just before

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Speaker 1: we get into this further. Can we just talk about

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Speaker 1: how the husband is a very intelligent, educated man, and

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Speaker 1: I think we should just remember that because we're gonna

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Speaker 1: get that entirely intelligent, well book intelligence.

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Speaker 2: He did all the proper steps to build a family.

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Speaker 2: And that's what's sad is maybe I'm getting ahead. But

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Speaker 2: six kids, they all look healthy. Husband who's working, a

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Speaker 2: mom who has an opportunity to be with. She wanted

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Speaker 2: to be a stay at home runer, right loving yea,

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Speaker 2: not everyone that, It's what she loved. So she's she's

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Speaker 2: able to fulfill her dreams. They live in you know

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Speaker 2: what is a nice state, They have a home, they

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Speaker 2: have all these things. And then she builds a YouTube

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Speaker 2: channel in which she wanted she makes good money that

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Speaker 2: way to supplement her husband's income. I mean, they had

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Speaker 2: all these opportunities and then she freaking screwed it up. Well,

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Speaker 2: I you know, it's all those people that don't have

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Speaker 2: the opportunities and wish they could, and she screwed it up,

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Speaker 2: all right.

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Speaker 1: The Frankie shot to social media started with the YouTube

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Speaker 1: channel eight Passengers, which Ruby started back in twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 1: and it was to chronicle the life of her wholesome

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Speaker 1: Mormon family in Utah. She eventually ended up with two

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Speaker 1: point five million subscribers more than a billion views, which

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Speaker 1: is insane to think about. YEA, not easy to do that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm on TV. I can't even get that

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Speaker 1: many follow the family earned up to follow her footsteps.

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Speaker 1: I'm not thank you for that warning. The family earned

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Speaker 1: up to one hundred thousand a month at their peak.

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Speaker 1: That's what Kevin says in the docu series, that they

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Speaker 1: were at their peak, they were earning up to one

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars a month. The videos were a window

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Speaker 1: into her life, showing a typical Mormon suburban family, but

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Speaker 1: some moments raised eyebrows. There were a couple of moments

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Speaker 1: that she she uploaded and I think what she did

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Speaker 1: not realize and this is what I'm also. I've also

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Speaker 1: read a lot of Sherry. Sherry Frankie's the Oldest Daughter,

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Speaker 1: and I've I've read her. She wrote a memoir and

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Speaker 1: I read most of it. I'm almost done. But Sherry

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Speaker 1: the Oldest basically says that whatever is in Ruby was

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Speaker 1: always there. This this narcissism and egotism and all the

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Speaker 1: things they were innately in this woman, and then the

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Speaker 1: child abuse was something that was also there, Like she

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Speaker 1: was not a good person, she did not have a

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Speaker 1: good relationship with her mom her whole life. It's not

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Speaker 1: like there was something that happens.

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Speaker 2: It's not like she was a wholehearted like saint right

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Speaker 2: and everything was great and yeah, yeah, but call it

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Speaker 2: what you want. It's terrible.

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Speaker 1: So there were some there were some videos at first

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Speaker 1: that started to raise eyebrows. It's so For example, in

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Speaker 1: one video, she could be seen telling her sons that

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Speaker 1: they would lose the privilege to eat dinner if they

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Speaker 1: continued play fighting. In another one, you can't do that.

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Speaker 2: You can't punish with food.

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Speaker 1: I know. I don't understand that. Yeah, I don't understand that.

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Speaker 1: Thinking that's where I want.

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Speaker 2: To like, that's like, let's punish her with food. Let's

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Speaker 2: put her in prison and say you don't get any

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Speaker 2: food because you didn't sweep your floor or whatever it is.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, it's terrible. In another, it's hard for me

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Speaker 2: to listen to this stuff.

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Speaker 1: I know what you're gonna have to because I need

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Speaker 1: your opinion. In another, she said that her six year

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Speaker 1: old needed to go hungry after forgetting to take her

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Speaker 1: lunch to school. I actually Share actually elaborates on this

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Speaker 1: in her book, and she says that what happened was

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Speaker 1: the teacher called Ruby and said, your daughter forgot to

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Speaker 1: bring her lunch to school. Can you bring her lunch?

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Speaker 1: And she said to the teacher, absolutely not. She needs

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Speaker 1: to just she needs to starve, basically, like that's her

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Speaker 1: way of learning to be responsible is to go hungry.

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Speaker 1: And so that was a lot of her A lot

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Speaker 1: of her thinking, according to Sherry, was that the mom

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Speaker 1: made it as if the kids had to earn her love.

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Speaker 1: That was it wasn't just given.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I bet you that was really all. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I guess if that's the way she was. But I

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Speaker 2: bet she also used that disciplinary style to get what

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Speaker 2: she wanted on camera, right, because I saw some videos

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Speaker 2: where she was like, pretend to be happy, make it

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Speaker 2: like you you're happy.

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Speaker 1: Just fake it, breake it right.

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Speaker 2: Don't she fake that you don't have kids and leave.

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Speaker 1: But the video that did the most damage was posted

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Speaker 1: in twenty two. This is when her son Chad, this

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Speaker 1: is interesting that this is the downfall of Ruby Frankie

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Speaker 1: was that she's such a narcissist that she did not

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Speaker 1: even she wasn't even cognizant that what he was saying

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Speaker 1: in the video was bad.

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Speaker 2: Well, she probably, like you said, with Blake Lively around

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Speaker 2: a bunch of yes people. Yeah, you have all these

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Speaker 2: people who follow her because she did portray a beautiful

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Speaker 2: family right, and that beautiful home right, like meaning the

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Speaker 2: living right and the interactions and all that. Right, So

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Speaker 2: people were following her authentically like, oh, wow, this is great.

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Speaker 2: I can learn from her. She's you know, inspiring. And

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Speaker 2: then so she probably got really consumed like, oh, I

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Speaker 2: could do whatever I want. Like she didn't realize like, oh,

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Speaker 2: you know, some people don't like this, and people don't

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Speaker 2: like that. It's just like, oh, everyone loves me, so

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Speaker 2: everything I do is awesome. Everything I touched her instack

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Speaker 2: gold exactly.

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Speaker 1: And that's what had been happening up until this point.

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Speaker 1: So they got canceled in twenty twenty with one post,

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Speaker 1: which is crazy to think about, but one post.

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Speaker 2: Even did I see that post? Is that that one

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Speaker 2: that was awful?

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Speaker 1: This is what she was?

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Speaker 2: Oh, go ahead, sorry, let me just suppose yes, it'll

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Speaker 2: make fun of it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, the post wasn't twenty twenty and This is when

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Speaker 1: her son, Chad, revealed that his bedroom had been taken

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Speaker 1: away for seven months and that he had been sleeping

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Speaker 1: on a small beam bag and this is in the

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Speaker 1: basement after playing pranks on his sibling. The tone of

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Speaker 1: their discussion was light between Ruby and Chad, with the

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Speaker 1: story drawing giggles from Frankie and her child, but many

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Speaker 1: viewers were disturbed by the incident and they which prompted

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Speaker 1: petitions and tiktoks to be made against the family.

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Speaker 2: I discrewed a little bit. I didn't find him to

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Speaker 2: be chuckling. She did. He was rolling his eyes. He

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Speaker 2: was not He was not giving in. He was like yeah,

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Speaker 2: what like he like she was like, oh hell yeah

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Speaker 2: it was a while, and he goes, yeah, seven months

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Speaker 2: and then she's just like giggle and laugh and he

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Speaker 2: was not having it. Well yeah, I wouldn't say he

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Speaker 2: spoke up and told this, but he was not making

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Speaker 2: light of it. And I think that's what touched the

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Speaker 2: viewers is if he laughed, if he chuckled, if he

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Speaker 2: kind of made it like, you know, this is how

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Speaker 2: we operate, people would have questioned it, But I don't

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Speaker 2: know if they would have canceled it would have been

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Speaker 2: on alert. But he was not happy sitting there talking

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Speaker 2: about it. He was not okay. And I think that

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Speaker 2: resonated with people like, oh my gosh, she thinks it's

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Speaker 2: funny and it's not. Well.

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Speaker 1: With one video, Ruby managed to completely she creates a downfall.

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Speaker 2: Think goodness.

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Speaker 1: She posted that their entire YouTube channel because sponsors pulled out,

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Speaker 1: brand deals pulled out, no one wanted to be associated

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Speaker 1: with her. She lost a ton of subscribers, so she

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Speaker 1: lost everything basically that she had built with just.

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Speaker 2: Actually wanted that out because that video was posted. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it exposed her, but then now it probably made it

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Speaker 2: worse for the kids because then she goes off in

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Speaker 2: whatever direction she's going, right, Whereas if she didn't, maybe

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Speaker 2: it would have been the same crappy abuse.

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Speaker 1: You're saying. It was just like a worse Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: let me just write. Let me just I just want

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Speaker 1: to read this little passage about vlogging, because I did.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't aware of this, but Sherry, the oldest daughter,

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Speaker 1: in her book says that in my church, which is

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Speaker 1: LDS were encouraged to document our lives, meticulously, creating a

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Speaker 1: roadmap for future generations to understand their roots, and it

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Speaker 1: seemed as though the Internet was just an extension of that,

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Speaker 1: another way in which to do the Lord's work. So

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Speaker 1: this is why I didn't really realize this. Maybe you

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Speaker 1: knew this, but a lot of LDS families do vlogging.

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Speaker 2: Well. Diaries are encouraged to document your life, your journey,

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Speaker 2: for future generations, for your offspring, for your kids. Okay,

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Speaker 2: then how much would you love it if your grandma

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Speaker 2: had documented in a diary all of her ups and

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Speaker 2: downs and her thoughts and feelings, and then you found

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Speaker 2: it today? How would you like that you'd be reading that?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, that would be I mean, that would be

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Speaker 1: a wealth of information that would be so much interesting.

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Speaker 2: She's wrong by not doing it, but how how awesome

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Speaker 2: that would be?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: That's that's what's encouraged.

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Speaker 1: But my question is, because you're saying in the LDS

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Speaker 1: faith it is encouraged to journal and to keep diaries

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Speaker 1: for future generations. But is vlogging just an extension of

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Speaker 1: that because.

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Speaker 2: We're in a digital age, I, without knowing for certain,

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Speaker 2: I don't think there's anything saying go vlog It's it's journaling, Okay.

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Speaker 1: But what's your what's your take on vlogging. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what do you think because Sherry, the daughter, the oldest daughter,

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Speaker 1: has spoken and you're tall like she's gone before the.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think with involving children, if you want to vlog,

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Speaker 2: then you do so. Like let's say, let's say you

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Speaker 2: want to do a cooking show, right and you want

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Speaker 2: to just experience and I know, let's make belief for

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Speaker 2: a moment that you cook, okay, and then you vlog

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Speaker 2: and you're sharing and you're loving and it's their hobby.

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Speaker 2: And then the kids are incidnolog to that. So they

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Speaker 2: come and they try the food or they help you cook.

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Speaker 2: But really you're the focus or the contents. But when

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Speaker 2: you start involving them or it's their personalities, it's them contributing,

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Speaker 2: it's them having to interact, and then you're then you're

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Speaker 2: forcing their interaction. That's where it's a problem. Well, if

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Speaker 2: they're just in the background and they're just by that,

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Speaker 2: you know, uh, adjacent, Yeah, that's fine, but that's.

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Speaker 1: Not the way her channel was. So her channel was

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Speaker 1: just revolved around the kids in their lives. She also

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Speaker 1: created a lot of scenarios that I think I think

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Speaker 1: she went out of bounds where she was talking about

436
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,919
Speaker 1: like shopping for a brawl with her daughter, or like

437
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:41,959
Speaker 1: their first period, or like you know, waxing Sherry's eyebrow,

438
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 1: And she accidentally waxed one of her eyebrows off and

439
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:45,480
Speaker 1: then posted it because she thought it was fun.

440
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 2: It did it on purpose, probably, I mean, I'm sure

441
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 2: she did.

442
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 1: So it wasn't It wasn't even documenting their family as

443
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,479
Speaker 1: a real family. It was creating scenarios.

444
00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 2: He got expelled and she posted that everyone.

445
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 1: Yes, he got expelled. So Chad, the oldest son, got

446
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 1: expelled from school. I don't remember what it was for,

447
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 1: but I don't think it was for anything. It was

448
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 1: probably for like.

449
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,160
Speaker 2: I remember, something on him. So he get expelled, something

450
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 2: to talk about. But then he got expelled.

451
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,920
Speaker 1: And this is how Jody Hildebrant comes into their lives.

452
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:20,959
Speaker 1: Because Chad gets expelled. She Ruby the mom thinks that

453
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 1: her son needs all this help and therapy and attention

454
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 1: because he was expelled from school. So she is referred

455
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 1: to Jody Hildebrant, who is who is someone that had

456
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 1: been counseling Mormon couples and families in Utah. Now this

457
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 1: Hilda Brand Jody Hildebrant had established this therapy type of

458
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 1: I don't even know what it is, self help type

459
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,880
Speaker 1: of thing called Connections, and she established it in two

460
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: thousand and seven.

461
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 2: And what's her background, Well.

462
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:48,880
Speaker 1: I believe she was was.

463
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 2: She married, Well she was married children.

464
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:53,639
Speaker 1: Okay, well she was married, but she was divorced and

465
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 1: then apparently she had children who were estranged from her.

466
00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 1: Sounds quified to me why people trust her like a guru.

467
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 1: Like people were obsessed with her and her teaching.

468
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 2: It'd be like you call him mechanic and he's like, oh, yeah,

469
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 2: I can't be there until Tuesday because my car keeps

470
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 2: breaking down. Yeah, I'm not going to hire you. So

471
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 2: why would you hire these people that? Well, first of all,

472
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:17,920
Speaker 2: they met I have known the background.

473
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 1: Well, I think a lot of people did, but I

474
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 1: think they overlooked it. This is where this is where

475
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 1: the line of religion and fanatics gets blurred, because I

476
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:31,439
Speaker 1: would say someone like Jody Hildebrandt use the religion in

477
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 1: a fanatical way where it was very extreme, right, And

478
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 1: I think you can pull something from religion and then

479
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 1: just make it so absolute and so black and white,

480
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,959
Speaker 1: and so this is the truth that it's damaging and

481
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: that's the kind of person that she was. So her

482
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 1: service is known for its courses on relationships and parenting,

483
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: which some former clients say are rooted in the principles

484
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,479
Speaker 1: of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints.

485
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 1: And I think rooted is a loose term there, because

486
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 1: people can take any religion and anything in a religion

487
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: and make it so extreme, but then use religion as

488
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: a rationale or to reason, to reason why they're saying

489
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: or doing what they want. So there were some former client.

490
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 2: Religion or not, she's a piece of crap, and they

491
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 2: did a bunch of terrible things to their kids. So

492
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not like if you have another pan Okay,

493
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 2: like this Karen Reid that locked her thirty two year

494
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 2: old or whatever kid.

495
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 1: Karen read is a whole different case.

496
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 2: I know, it's a different case.

497
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: No Karen Reid, Oh no, no, it's a different case.

498
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: The other piece of crap, Lady.

499
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 2: Sullivan, solovon whatever these Karens that were reporting on. So

500
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 2: we don't know, but we assume that she didn't have

501
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 2: any religion to say I locked him in a freaking

502
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 2: room and give him two little bottles of water. Right,

503
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 2: it's still the end results of the same thing. So

504
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 2: who cares what their reasoning is. There is no good reason,

505
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 2: all right.

506
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 1: So this is when when Ruby meets Jody hilda Brand

507
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,199
Speaker 1: and brings Jody Hildebrant into their lives. First, Joe, he

508
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: starts meeting with Chad because Chad's been expelled and he

509
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 1: has to do these weekly meetings. Then I think with

510
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 1: the combination of meeting Jody but also their eight Passengers

511
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 1: YouTube channel being canceled, Ruby has to now immerse herself

512
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: into something else and.

513
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 2: Everything and everything that she had lived for was taken away, right.

514
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: So now she's immersed herself into this connection, big void

515
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 1: to fill, right, just a little bit with Jody. So

516
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: she comes in and she ends up moving into their house.

517
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,679
Speaker 1: I think that's where it just gets really weird to me.

518
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 1: First Chad's having sessions. Then Ruby immerses herself into this

519
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 1: connections and she becomes like a counselor and she does

520
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: all the she does all the work, and she she's

521
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: making videos and she's a leader in this connections. Kevin,

522
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 1: the husband, is also having these weekly therapy sessions with

523
00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: Jody as well, and Basically, Jody is like a man.

524
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 1: She doesn't like men. She makes that clear kids either.

525
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 1: I don't think she likes anyone. And I don't understand

526
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: why people like people jump onto her teachings, but they

527
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: do well.

528
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 2: The sucker born every minute.

529
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: I just wanted to read something that Cherry wrote in

530
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: her book. And this is when Jody. So, Jody actually

531
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: ends up moving in with the Frankies. And this is

532
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 1: because she claims that she's possessed by the devil, and

533
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: so Ruby has her move into their home and live

534
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:34,360
Speaker 1: with them.

535
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 2: Wait, who's supposedly possessed Jody?

536
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: So this counselor that's in their.

537
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,640
Speaker 2: Lives, the counselor that's supposed to be inspiring and spiritual,

538
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 2: is now possessed by the devil. She's possessed by the

539
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 2: take her in the house.

540
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: Well, Ruby takes her in and she moves her into

541
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: the house nice and apparently this is according to Sherry's book,

542
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 1: this is the conversation that took place. I guess. Ruby

543
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: calls Sherry and she says, JODI's not well. She's being

544
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 1: bombarded by the adversary. Her soul is under siege from

545
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 1: Satan himself. He's trying to silence her truth. So she's

546
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: moving in with us. We're going to help her get better.

547
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 1: So Cherry says that this her mother's unhinged guru, which

548
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 1: I thought was hilarious that that's what she called her.

549
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 1: I think her book is really well written. Moves into

550
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: their home and takes Sharry's bedroom. So now Sherry is

551
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: going to go to college at BYU soon. So after

552
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,679
Speaker 1: Jody moves in, I just I think it's interesting to

553
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 1: go through the story. But also I was Sherry's book.

554
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 1: I just found some of the things that she really interesting.

555
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 1: It's written by Sherry, the oldest daughter, and it's called

556
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 1: the House of My Mother, And this is an entry

557
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 1: after Jody moves in, and she says, those few weeks

558
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: after Jody moved in where a total mindwarp, a bizarre,

559
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: chaotic blur in which each new day seemed to outwear

560
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: the last. Jody had taken up residence in my bedroom,

561
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 1: and once installed, she never left, lingering like a bad smell,

562
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: while I was relegated to the couch downstairs, a refuge

563
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: in my own home. So she moves in, and then

564
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: Ruby moves into the bedroom with her and Kevin, the

565
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: dad is sleeping alone in the marital bed. Now, this

566
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: is some weird stuff that's going on. And my question

567
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: is why is Kevin complicit in all of this?

568
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 2: It might have been, it's not overnight, it's probably slowly

569
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 2: over time. Well, yeah, probably just trying to He's in

570
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 2: survival mode, just like the kids, you know, walking on

571
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 2: eggshells with this psychopath. And then she brings in her

572
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 2: psychopath partner. Now they're in the bedroom together. I mean,

573
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,199
Speaker 2: if it was overnight, he would have flipped probably, but

574
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 2: it was over time, so he probably just became accustomed

575
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 2: to it and was in survival mode.

576
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: So Jody and Ruby end up sharing a bedroom together.

577
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: Then Sherry, the oldest daughter, in her memoir, also says

578
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: that there was a night where she caught Ruby sneaking

579
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: out of the bedroom like with a robe on, and

580
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: there was massage oil and candles lit. So she's clearly

581
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: stating that she thinks that they were having a lesbian relationship. Yeah,

582
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: and so there's so many weird things that go on

583
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,719
Speaker 1: in this. You're talking about two people, Ruby and Jody,

584
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: who do these connection videos that are supposed to be

585
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: teachings for people in the LDS church. To live their truth. Meanwhile,

586
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: they're having a lesbian relationship on the down low while

587
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: the husband is alone in another bedroom and the children

588
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: are being deprived of love and care.

589
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding. Are they still in the same house

590
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 2: or did they move?

591
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: No, they're in this house in Springville.

592
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 2: Still there, I mean in this timeline, there's still.

593
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: A timeline there. This is the second home. When they

594
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: first started out making their blog, they lived in a

595
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: very simile dad.

596
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 2: Focus on work. He just wakes up, puts his time on,

597
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 2: goes to work, I don't know, fine, and then come

598
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 2: home and does them homework with kids. And this is ok,

599
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 2: a good job.

600
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: Okay, But here's my question for you, because the dad, Kevin,

601
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: seems to be even though it's hard for me to say,

602
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: I think he's genuinely a good guy. I think he's

603
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: just extremely controlled manipulated by his wife.

604
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

605
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: But he's a member of the LDS Church, and as

606
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: far as I know in things that you have told me,

607
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: that the teachings of the church are that the man

608
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: is a good father and a good husband.

609
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 2: And I mean just this is general good teachings and

610
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 2: you know, for everyone the man should be if the

611
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 2: man has children. The man needs to act as a father,

612
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 2: not as a roommate to the lesbian couple next door. Right,

613
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 2: all right, I just want to read one more, he said,

614
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 2: Know what you're getting at?

615
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: Well, maybe I'll get to it later when I.

616
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 2: Guess, maybe what you're getting at is he certainly had

617
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 2: some teachings right in his life? Right he didn't. I

618
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 2: mean he could have. We don't know his background, but

619
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 2: he grew up. I think he served a mission, a

620
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 2: church mission, He went to wy He did all these

621
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 2: things that you would think he'd have some common sense

622
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 2: for the household, right, And I guess.

623
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is I know that, like, what are

624
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: the classes that you go to on Sunday that are

625
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: just for the men, the priesthood classes.

626
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, how does he go down that way?

627
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 2: That's all we learn about is being a better husband

628
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 2: and a better father.

629
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: But I guess my question is how does he go

630
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: to priesthood classes on a Sunday and then go home?

631
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 2: Well? I don't know, maybe he wasn't going anywhere. I

632
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 2: don't know. You're saying, how do you yeah, he's he's uh,

633
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 2: he's Christian? On Sunday right right, and then on mondays

634
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 2: back to his usual self.

635
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: I just I don't understand it.

636
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 2: It might have just been he was just going through

637
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 2: the motion. He was just going through the routine. It

638
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 2: wasn't really nothing was clicking. I don't know. But he

639
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 2: is guilty.

640
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: Not in a criminal sense, but in a moral sense, right.

641
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, maybe in a criminal sense.

642
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: So this I just wanted to read one more thing

643
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: that Sherry wrote because I thought this was very interesting.

644
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: Where she she does talk about her dad, She says,

645
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: I felt helpless watching all of this unfold. Dad, who

646
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: seemed like a shell of his former self, wasn't doing

647
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: anything to stop a shell.

648
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 2: Of his former self. So he was just going through

649
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 2: the motions.

650
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: I wanted to intervene, to shake him out of compliance,

651
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: but I didn't know how. I yearned from my dad

652
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: to find his backbone, to step up and be the

653
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: protector he was supposed to be. In the end, he

654
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: never even tried.

655
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 2: I mean never even tried. Not he tried. She kicked

656
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 2: him out, He called the police. They didn't believe him, like, never,

657
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 2: not even tried.

658
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: No.

659
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 2: And that's and your kid's perception is reality. So that's

660
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,719
Speaker 2: how she sees it sucks for him, right, that's how

661
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 2: he's seen as a father, because not a father.

662
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: This because after Jody moves in, and then Ruby and

663
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: Jody are sharing a bed, it gets to the point

664
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: where there's all these control type tactics where, for example,

665
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: Sherry says she's not allowed to go into the bedroom.

666
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: She has a text her mom and asked permission. Kevin

667
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: was allowed to leave the house, but he had to

668
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: text Ruby and ask permission to come home, and she

669
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: had to allow him permission to come back home, and

670
00:32:58,800 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: he just went along with this.

671
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 2: Then it got.

672
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: Why so you can well see, look at Rubby, Frank.

673
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 2: Look she did her husband. Don't complain. That's what you're

674
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 2: trying to do a standard here and be like, see,

675
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 2: at least I'm not like Ruby Frank Frank. Yeah, all right.

676
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: Also, I'm going to pick.

677
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 2: The story next week.

678
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 1: Okay, well you can pick the story. Also, what also

679
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: happens is that Chad, the oldest son, ends up exiled

680
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: from the family. She kicks him out.

681
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 2: At what age is like, and he's an adult child

682
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 2: now I think he's like.

683
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,719
Speaker 1: Eighteen or nineteen or something like that. She kicks him

684
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: out of the house, adult child, adult child.

685
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

686
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: Then Sherry, the oldest daughter, ends up exiled. She's excommunicated.

687
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: She goes to college, but she has no more contact.

688
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: And then Kevin, the dad ex communicated, well whatever they

689
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: call it, I mean, whatever you want to call it

690
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 1: in a family. She has excommunicated from the family ousted.

691
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: So Ruby gets rid of Chad, Ruby gets rid of Sherry.

692
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: And then Kevin has explicit instructions that he is not

693
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: allowed to contact his children at.

694
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 2: All, and he's obedience, and he's obedient and he doesn't

695
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:09,240
Speaker 2: so he want.

696
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: To upset the wife. Then they also talk about the

697
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 1: documentary how there are neighbors that are very concerned about

698
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: what's going on with these children, and that they call

699
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 1: child services, and that they text the husband like, hey,

700
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 1: you might want to check in on your kids, and

701
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:26,240
Speaker 1: he blocks them.

702
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 2: You know, I certainly am grateful that the neighbors were

703
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 2: aware and all that, and I don't want to judge,

704
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 2: but just generally speaking, if like you got to do more,

705
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 2: if you if we truly believed our neighbors had kids,

706
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 2: which our neighbors love kids. If our neighbors had kids,

707
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 2: no one has kids in our neighborhood. If our neighbors

708
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 2: had kids and we believe they were malnourished. They were like,

709
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 2: let's say our boys were saying, they're not in school anymore.

710
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 2: And we saw him once and he was malnourished and

711
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 2: he looked and you know, he was like stuck in

712
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 2: the home, and we had reason to believe it was bad.

713
00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 2: I wouldn't just make a phone call and then that's

714
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 2: it and then rug my shoulders. Well, I don't know.

715
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 2: I would be like, no, I'm going to capture a video.

716
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 2: I'm going to go knock on the door. I'm going

717
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 2: to go over there with the police. You got to

718
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,760
Speaker 2: expose it. And then if you're wrong, oh, well you're wrong.

719
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,280
Speaker 2: And if you're right, then now it can't be denied.

720
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 2: Right If a police officer or a social worker or

721
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 2: a teacher or someone saw the child truly like unhealthy

722
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 2: and not how they should be living, it can't be denied.

723
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 2: Then something would be done.

724
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: Well, I think you are the exception to the rule,

725
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 1: because I think most people would do the bare minimum

726
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 1: and then they would move on with their life.

727
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, those neighbors, they have their own lives,

728
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 2: they have their own things that they're doing, and you know,

729
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 2: so it's not like it's really their responsibility. Well they

730
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 2: were calling though, I mean they were doing something and

731
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 2: that's good, and basically nothing happened.

732
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: So eventually, this is where I don't think the documentary

733
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:52,720
Speaker 1: really explains it, and I don't know how this happened.

734
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 1: But there are two middle children, so there's six children altogether.

735
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: The two oldest are exiled from the family by Ruby.

736
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: She gets rid of them, and I think that's under

737
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: the pressure of Jody too, because clearly this woman her

738
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: tactic is to isolate.

739
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 2: They're probably grown, they could speak for themselves, they could

740
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 2: push back, so she's like, oh, we gotta get rid

741
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 2: of their threat to my new relationship with you, exactly.

742
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 1: So if she can get rid of the husband and

743
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,359
Speaker 1: the two oldest kids, then the two middle children end

744
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: up living with a neighbor. I don't know why or how.

745
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:23,839
Speaker 1: They don't explain that in the documentary, but they end

746
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: up finding the two middle children in a neighbor's.

747
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 2: House, and then those neighbors don't say, hey, why are

748
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 2: these kids living with us? Like, yeah, we're going to

749
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 2: take care of right now. But so obviously that's parental neglect.

750
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: I don't know I have questions about that. So if

751
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: anybody knows anything about how those middle children ended up

752
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 1: with the neighbors and why the neighbors were caring for them,

753
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,439
Speaker 1: and why the neighbors didn't know, it's not in the book,

754
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: and it's not in the documentary at least as far.

755
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,359
Speaker 1: I'm almost done with the book, but maybe Sherry will

756
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: get to it, but I don't know. That's the mystery

757
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: for me. At this point, Ruby and Jody end up

758
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: moving to Hildebrand's home in Ivan's, Utah, which is this big,

759
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 1: five million dollar home that's like a like a did

760
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 1: you saw it? Did you see it in the videos?

761
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: That looks like a.

762
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 2: Fort I saw a little bit. Yeah.

763
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: So what happens is they take the two youngest children

764
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: with them, and you know it. Throughout Sherry's books, she

765
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 1: talks about how her mother, Ruby had issues with the

766
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: two youngest, always saying that they needed to be punished,

767
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: and there was even an example she gives where they

768
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: had a Christmas and she gave gifts to all of

769
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 1: the kids except for the two youngest, and the two

770
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: youngest had to sit and watch their siblings open Christmas

771
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 1: gifts and they got nothing and then she made them

772
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: clean up the wrapping paper. And I don't know what

773
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 1: it was. I don't know why, but for some reason

774
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 1: she had some I mean, she didn't like any of

775
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 1: her kids, obviously, but the two youngest were I think

776
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 1: got the brunt of her.

777
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 2: Well. I imagine her behavior got worse and worse and

778
00:37:55,680 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 2: worse and then and the youngest children are the one

779
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 2: that you can control the most, and they're going to listen, right,

780
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 2: So it just got worse for them.

781
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: So one of Frankie's children, it was the boy, escaped

782
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 1: Hildebrand's home and you and Ivan's utah through a window

783
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 1: and went to a neighbor's home to ask for help.

784
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: And this is actually where you can see in the

785
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: documentary the ring camera. There's the ring camera footage. The

786
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: neighbor comes on and he says, can I help you? Actually,

787
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: the boys walking away. If you watch, he rings the

788
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: bell and then he starts to walk away, and then

789
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: the neighbor comes on and says, can I help you?

790
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: And then the neighbors saw that he the boy had

791
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: duct tape wrapped around his ankles and wrists. So the

792
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: neighbor contacted law enforcement.

793
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 2: Like badly to that duct tape. Like I had been

794
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 2: there for a while. It was tight, right, I mean,

795
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 2: I've never seen you know, It's not like it was

796
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 2: a good scenario, whether it's duct tape round.

797
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 1: But the thing that got me because I watched that

798
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: scene a couple of times, and you're so polite to

799
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: the sun. The Sun was so polite because then the

800
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: neighbor says, you know, how can I help you? Or

801
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 1: what's this about? And he says, oh, it's personal business,

802
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 1: which you can tell right there by that statement that

803
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,320
Speaker 1: this child's been conditioned to not talk about it.

804
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 2: Miss that part. I heard the part where he said

805
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,280
Speaker 2: I just need two things, and he goes, actually one thing.

806
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: Right, But first he says something about it, Oh, it's

807
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 1: just personal business. So the boy rings the doorbell and

808
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,439
Speaker 1: he tells the man, the neighbor, that he just needs

809
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: two things. That he changes it. He says I just

810
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: need one and he says, well what is it? And

811
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: he says, can you call the police, And then I

812
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 1: think he says something about you know, it's just personal business.

813
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 2: And then to give that man credit, I think he

814
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 2: came out fairly quickly once he saw the issues. I

815
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 2: think there was a lady there assuming is his wife,

816
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 2: and they were caring, and they were calling the police

817
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:39,879
Speaker 2: and they were they were on top of it.

818
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think at first you can tell he

819
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: seems like an annoyed neighbor. It was when the kid

820
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 1: rings the doorbell, he's like, what do you want to

821
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 1: see the whole thing?

822
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 2: Maybe the kid ring it like five times, or you know,

823
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 2: he's thinking, why is this kid you know? Here? But

824
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 2: but once he saw it was an issue, that man

825
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 2: you know, rescued him.

826
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: He did, and he also broke down, which made me

827
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:00,959
Speaker 1: break down. I will tell you that's the one time

828
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: during this whole documentary, which is terrible, but I didn't

829
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: cry until the neighbor cried. You can tell on the

830
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: phone with the police that he loses it. He breaks down.

831
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 2: He saw there might have been some likely crafts is

832
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 2: going on right next door, and I never saw anything.

833
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 1: So the caller tells authorities that the boy says what

834
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: happened to him was his own fault and that his

835
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: mom might come looking for him here soon, So we

836
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: need to get the cops here as soon as possible.

837
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: Upon arrival at Hildebrand's home, so the law enforcement they

838
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 1: show up they located another one of Frankie's children, also

839
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: malnourished inside a closet. This was the nine year old girl.

840
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 1: So the twelve year old boy is the one who

841
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: rang the doorbell of the neighbor. The nine year old

842
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 1: girl was still at home and she was sitting on

843
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: the floor inside a closet. She was petrified and spent

844
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 1: nearly four hours sitting on the floor before first responders

845
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: were finally able to coax her out.

846
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 2: Shaved head too, right, head was shad.

847
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: I think her hair was cut for I don't know

848
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: if he had much.

849
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 2: Isn't a big deal because let me want that style.

850
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 2: But it's it's controlling them. It's controlling these kids, and

851
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 2: it's making them feel it's not human.

852
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: Also in the documentary, you see the police officer find

853
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,359
Speaker 1: her in the closet and he you can tell he's

854
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: very affected by what he finds, and he sits in

855
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: there with her.

856
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 2: I think he told the other police officers, I'm just

857
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 2: going to stay here, Yeah.

858
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: And he did. He sat in there with her. They

859
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: order her a pizza. I think he sits in there

860
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 1: with her and tries to talk.

861
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 2: To her, sits down at her level, right six feet flat,

862
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 2: and you know, it's kind of like, Okay, I'm not

863
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 2: a cop. I'm just a person right now, I mean

864
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 2: in saleswords. But that was kind of the thinking eye level,

865
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 2: you know, and not demanding anything like let's go upstairs,

866
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 2: let's you know, interrogating, which is important, right.

867
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. I actually thought that was really compassionate of him

868
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: to do that instead of just you know, you go in,

869
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 1: you sweep through the house, you find a malt nursed child,

870
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 1: you can just pick him up and have you know,

871
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: call Child Protected Services and have him pick him up.

872
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: But I think they knew she was so she.

873
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 2: Was traumatized trapped in this windowless room, I think, yeah.

874
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,359
Speaker 2: Or if it wasn't wndless, I mean it was.

875
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 1: No, I think it was. It's like one of those

876
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 1: escape room type of weird things that this house. This

877
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 1: house was very odd. It was it was like a

878
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: fortress and it had all these like escape type rooms,

879
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: and so Ruby kept a journal, but she also was

880
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,359
Speaker 1: very explicit about writing about the abuse. So in some

881
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 1: of her journal entries, Ruby Frankie shared several first hand

882
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 1: instances of harming her two youngest children, whom she believed

883
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: were demonically possessed and insisted that they must repent. One

884
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,879
Speaker 1: of her entries says, I told the boy he emulates

885
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 1: a snake. If he wants to emulate the Savior, he

886
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 1: needs to be one hundred percent obedient with exactness. The

887
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: body must engage in good work, and the good works

888
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 1: need to be painful. I have the power of God

889
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 1: and he must obey. This is some This is a

890
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 1: woman who is on a complete delusional power trip, fueled

891
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:08,919
Speaker 1: by another woman who is her girlfriend, guru whatever, who

892
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: is also on a complete power trip. And they clearly

893
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:18,919
Speaker 1: get off on controlling people and situations. And I don't

894
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: know what is what is the stance on, Like I

895
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: understand that LDS you're religious, but is there also the

896
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 1: belief that Satan exists and can possess bodies.

897
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not saying that's what's going on in

898
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 2: that household, but that's what she's well and in her

899
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 2: mind she believes that's what's happening.

900
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think she believes that's what happening is

901
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: happening because she's also being fueled by Jodie, who's saying,

902
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 1: you know, because Jodie's possessed by a demon too. So

903
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 1: she's clearly telling Ruby that her children are possessed by

904
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: a devils. I don't know before the boys escape in August,

905
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: her son, who I mean, unless they showed some remorse.

906
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 2: But they show I mean, and not just that's going

907
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 2: to happen overnight. But the mom didn't show any remorse,

908
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 2: did she? She's just an evil person.

909
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: Well, she apologizes during her sentencing, but when they first

910
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: when they.

911
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 2: First apologized during their sentencing, Sorry, I'm not buying that.

912
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 2: So this Jodie lady, when when the police arrived and

913
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 2: tried to you know, arrest her or detainer, she was

914
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 2: fighting it too. Yeah.

915
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:21,760
Speaker 1: Well, she had her attorney on the phone.

916
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean she was fighting it a lot, like

917
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 2: she was. She knew that she was criminal, and she

918
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 2: wanted she did not want the police anywhere near her.

919
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 1: No, she had her attorney on the phone, and she

920
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: was asking for a warrant, and she was making sure

921
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: she was trying.

922
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:37,240
Speaker 2: To like I've been through this before, where's the warrant?

923
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was trying to make sure that they did

924
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 1: not search her home in any way.

925
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 2: Because she knew she was criminal.

926
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: Right, you're saying she's not delusional you're saying, you're saying

927
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 1: the woman was well aware that what she was doing

928
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: where criminal acts. Who was definitely okay with it.

929
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:54,720
Speaker 2: She knew the police were not going to be okay

930
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 2: with it and the law was going to come down

931
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 2: on her.

932
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 1: So before his escape in August, the Sun who's not

933
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 1: identified because they have not identified the youngest children, previously

934
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: tried to run away in July, on a night when

935
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 1: he was forced to sleep outside on the patio, he

936
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 1: left a message for his mother and Hilda Brand scrawled

937
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 1: out of pebbles that read jail. We'll call when I

938
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: get there. The twelve year old was found by Frankie

939
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 1: later that night. She also describes her daughter as manipulative

940
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,359
Speaker 1: and at one point cut off all the girl's long hair.

941
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 1: No more distracting with long hair, Frankie wrote in one

942
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 1: of her journal entries. The boy also repeatedly begged his

943
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,320
Speaker 1: mother for basic care, such as water or air conditioning,

944
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: according to her journal entries. On July eleventh, the boy

945
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: told Ruby that he wanted to go to jail. According

946
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 1: to her journal, I mean he probably wanted to go

947
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: to jail.

948
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 2: To the jelly, get three meals a day, and they

949
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 2: got some security.

950
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 1: No seriously, or he might have said he wanted to

951
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 1: go to jail because she's consistently telling him that he's

952
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 1: evil and he's possessed by the devil, and that he

953
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: needs to repent and that he needs to work hard.

954
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:56,240
Speaker 1: She also apparently made them do extreme physical labor to

955
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,800
Speaker 1: wipe them of their sins and for them to repent

956
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 1: for all this evil that they possess. I think she

957
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 1: made them run in the desert and without water and

958
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 1: things like that. All right, so Ruby is arrested and

959
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 1: Jody is arrested, and during their sentencing, Frankie did apologize

960
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 1: to her children. She said, I believe dark was light

961
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: and right was wrong. I would do anything in this

962
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 1: world for you. I took from you all that was

963
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: soft and safe and good. Jody said she hoped the

964
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 1: children would be able to heal physically and emotionally. One

965
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: of the reasons I did not go to trial is

966
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: because I did not want them to emotionally relive the experience,

967
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: which would have been detrimental to them. She said. MY

968
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,359
Speaker 1: hope and prayer is that they will heal and move

969
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: forward to have beautiful lives. Basically, both women took a

970
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,439
Speaker 1: plea deal. They took a deal. They had four counts

971
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 1: of child abuse, with one to fifteen years each for

972
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 1: each count. So basically they're spending between four and sixty

973
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 1: years in prison. I don't know which it is. I

974
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,359
Speaker 1: assume after the four years they're up for role.

975
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:01,720
Speaker 2: Do you know how that works?

976
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 1: But right now there's sentences between four and sixty years,

977
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 1: and it's in the hands of the Utah role.

978
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:07,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, let's hope it's sixty.

979
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,439
Speaker 1: Let's hope it's sixty. I do find it. I don't

980
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: even know what it is ironic that Jody even has

981
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:16,919
Speaker 1: the nerve to stand before the court and say, hey,

982
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: I'm such a good person. I'm not even going to

983
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 1: go to trial because I don't want you guys to,

984
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: you know, hurt anymore and want n the feelings, right, yeah, right,

985
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:34,320
Speaker 1: So both women are currently in prison and they're sharing

986
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: us all with Yes with massage oil and and Kevin

987
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 1: is not allowed to visit.

988
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 2: Ken's Kevin's next door in the next Door.

989
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: Prosecutors claim that both Frankie and Hildebrandt were motivated by

990
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 1: religious extremism, which we talked about exactly also when I

991
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 1: was when I was watching this, there were some parallels

992
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,760
Speaker 1: that I saw between this case and also the Gabby

993
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 1: Potito case, Because, first of all, in the Gabby Patito case,

994
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 1: there is a scenario where we talked about when the

995
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 1: Moab City police pulled them over. That was really the

996
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: window of opportunity where Gabby could have been saved. I know,

997
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,440
Speaker 1: hindsight's twenty twenty and it's easy to look back on

998
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:20,800
Speaker 1: something and say this should have been done, They should

999
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 1: have done this. But just to reiterate, if one of

1000
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:29,280
Speaker 1: those police officers would have made sure that she called

1001
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: her mom from the side of the road and that

1002
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: they heard the conversation, and that they they got on

1003
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 1: the phone and said, hey, you know what, ma'am. You

1004
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: know we pulled your daughter and her boyfriend over. There

1005
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 1: were witnesses that claimed that they saw him slapping her

1006
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: on the side of the road. Her eyes messed up,

1007
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: her arm has scratches, He has scratches. This isn't a

1008
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 1: good scenario.

1009
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 2: We just wanted to let you know, this is going

1010
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,240
Speaker 2: to be an investigation, like is there any history between

1011
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 2: these two? Not so much. It could have just been

1012
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 2: an investigation into this couple. Not so much like we're

1013
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,800
Speaker 2: going to tell your mom because she was an adult,

1014
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:05,400
Speaker 2: but it could be an investigation, but I should have

1015
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 2: done that.

1016
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 1: I also think that there's just a moral factor there

1017
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:11,479
Speaker 1: where I understand that they probably weren't under any legal

1018
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 1: obligation to make sure that she made the phone call,

1019
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 1: but I would just think from a moral standpoint that

1020
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 1: if they made sure that she got a hold of

1021
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 1: a parent that day, the things could have turned out differently. Also,

1022
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 1: the parallel that I was talking about between the Gabby

1023
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 1: Patito case and then the Ruby Frankie case is that

1024
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 1: there are also other times when DCFS was contacted multiple

1025
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 1: times about the Frankie children and they never investigated. They

1026
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 1: never followed this to.

1027
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 2: Me because you always hear these stories where like someone

1028
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 2: called Child Protected Services as a retaliation, you know, like oh,

1029
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 2: my girlfriend dumped me and she's a crappy mom, and

1030
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 2: so then you called you know, d CPS or whatever

1031
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 2: state you're in, and you call and then they show

1032
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 2: up and blah blah blah, and then there's a lawsuit

1033
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 2: because they cause havoc and this and that. But then

1034
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 2: there's all these like valid cases and like they don't

1035
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:01,720
Speaker 2: even like do anything.

1036
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, in the Ruby Frankie case, as

1037
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:09,720
Speaker 1: far as from my understanding, Sherry in her memoir claims

1038
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:13,879
Speaker 1: that she called herself over twenty times, like she made

1039
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 1: multiple phone calls on behalf of her siblings yea, and

1040
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 1: nothing was done, and not only her as the oldest sibling,

1041
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 1: saying hey, I need you guys to check on my

1042
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 1: younger siblings because I think there's some crazy things going on.

1043
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:28,720
Speaker 1: I don't know if my kids, my siblings are okay.

1044
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: But there were neighbors calling as well. And again, it

1045
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: reminds me of the Gabby Patito case because I feel

1046
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 1: like there was the window of opportunity where those children

1047
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: could have been saved before they were taken to Jody

1048
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 1: Hildebrand's house and wrapped up and scarred and they're bound

1049
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 1: and everything that happened to them. Anyway, that was just

1050
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 1: me relating those two. Also, I just think that there's

1051
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 1: such a parenting fail in both of those cases. I know,

1052
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 1: I don't want to place blame on Gabby Patito's parents

1053
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 1: because you know, I don't know the whole circumstance. I

1054
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 1: don't know the whole story, but we did talk about that.

1055
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no doubt they're grieving. There's no doubt that

1056
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 2: it was trouble as child. Sure they have their own regrets,

1057
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 2: so we don't need to add.

1058
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: Well, we did talk about earlier when we talked about

1059
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 1: Gabby Patito, that it just felt like there were opportunities

1060
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 1: where either the mom or dad or both could have intervened.

1061
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 1: But also, you know, it just we have to talk

1062
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,800
Speaker 1: about Kevin and just his He willingly abandoned his family.

1063
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 2: It's a dead beat.

1064
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: He cut all connection with his young children because Ruby

1065
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 1: and Jody asked him to, and that he had the

1066
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: ability to save them as their father, he could have.

1067
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,439
Speaker 1: He could have prevented all of this by just being

1068
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 1: a stand up dad and putting his foot down to

1069
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:49,279
Speaker 1: Ruby and saying this is ridiculous. You cannot excommunicate me

1070
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: from my children. I have rights and he never did that.

1071
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 2: Nope.

1072
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: And I understand a lot of people DM me about

1073
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 1: this case because I posted that we were going to

1074
00:51:58,480 --> 00:51:59,879
Speaker 1: talk about it, and I would say. The number one

1075
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 1: rusher then I got over and over and over is

1076
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 1: why did the police not criminally charge him? And my

1077
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 1: thought is he didn't criminally do anything.

1078
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 2: He didn't protect his children.

1079
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 1: That's not a criminal. How is it a criminalize he

1080
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 1: has a.

1081
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 2: Relationship with the kids and if he knows, he.

1082
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 1: Doesn't know though. That's that's his defense is that he

1083
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:22,799
Speaker 1: has no idea what's going on. Was that he completely

1084
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: removed himself from his wife and children and he was

1085
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 1: unaware that any of this is going on.

1086
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,840
Speaker 2: So he has a duty to know that. The situation

1087
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 2: is kids are in good or bad. You can't just

1088
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:38,359
Speaker 2: be like, oh, they're they're over there. They've been there

1089
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 2: for two years. I don't know they are.

1090
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, But he has a moral duty. There's a difference

1091
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 1: between a moral duty and a legal Then why was

1092
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 1: he charged with anything? What are they going to charge

1093
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:53,240
Speaker 1: him with being a bad dad? Because he being unaware

1094
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:54,320
Speaker 1: being complicit?

1095
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:57,359
Speaker 2: Well whatever, sucks to be him.

1096
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 1: So Sherry wrote a book which I've read most of

1097
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 1: I would suggest if you're interested in this case that

1098
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 1: you also read it. It's called The House of My Mother,

1099
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 1: A Daughter's Quest for Freedom. It's really well written and

1100
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:10,319
Speaker 1: it has a lot more detail about what was going

1101
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:15,760
Speaker 1: on within their household prior to their YouTube channel being successful,

1102
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 1: and then also some of the things that Sherry dealt

1103
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: with with her mom. And it's I don't know, it's

1104
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 1: just really interesting. Here's some key points from her own memory.

1105
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:27,279
Speaker 2: God, I do like when in a situation like this,

1106
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 2: like Sherry writes a book because it is good, it's

1107
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 2: probably therapeutic for her. People come to her and know

1108
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 2: her story so they can you know, support her. And

1109
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 2: she's you know, because it'd be terrible. She felt like

1110
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 2: she had to hide this all and it's embarrassing. And

1111
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:44,799
Speaker 2: then also this sounds done, but you know, financially she

1112
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 2: has something to support her. Hopefully she got paid well

1113
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 2: for the book. It does well. She maybe she can

1114
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 2: do public speaking or work with other victims, and now

1115
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:58,319
Speaker 2: she has a career. She has something for herself and

1116
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 2: she can take care of herself. That's why I like

1117
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:04,280
Speaker 2: these when I hear stories of these victims writing books,

1118
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:09,240
Speaker 2: because hopefully it gives them something to transition into normal living.

1119
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 1: Here's some just some key points from Sherry's memoir. Basically,

1120
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 1: she talks about how the child abuse started long before

1121
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 1: Jody Hildebrandt ever entered the picture. Basically, what she says

1122
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: is her mom was always that person. It's not that

1123
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:26,880
Speaker 1: Jody came and made her into someone completely different. It

1124
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 1: was always within her What is that so?

1125
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 2: What is that so? And like, how does that change anything?

1126
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 1: It doesn't change anything. But I think it's more of

1127
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 1: just recognizing that that that Ruby Frankie is just a

1128
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 1: horrible person from day one, not that she was manipulated

1129
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 1: by someone, that she was always fled it right. She

1130
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:50,399
Speaker 1: also paid Sherry one hundred dollars to wax off half

1131
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 1: of her eyebrow for a clickbake video titled Sherry, I'm

1132
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:54,799
Speaker 1: so sorry So I was right?

1133
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 2: Did on purpose?

1134
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: Yeah? When Sherry disclosed her depression.

1135
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 2: She's taking six years and she guse her kids one

1136
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:02,280
Speaker 2: hundred dollars.

1137
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 1: She also claims that she never actually got one hundred dollars.

1138
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,279
Speaker 2: I think she just like, I'll put it in a

1139
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:09,800
Speaker 2: college fund for you later, don't ask again.

1140
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 1: When Sheery disclosed her depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation to

1141
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 1: her parents, her father was initially supportive, but Ruby said

1142
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 1: that all problems can be solved with prayer, diet, and exercise.

1143
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: Sheerry went to her and said that she was very

1144
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:27,799
Speaker 1: depressed and that she had, you know, suicidal ideation, and

1145
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 1: that she just said, you need to exercise and eat better. Well,

1146
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:33,760
Speaker 1: and then the dad originally said, I think you should

1147
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:35,839
Speaker 1: go to therapy, but then the mom talked him out

1148
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 1: of it, and he just kind of went along with it.

1149
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 2: Don't talk to anyone, don't tattle on me.

1150
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 1: Ruby's abuse conditioned Sherry for sexual abuse by an older

1151
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:46,880
Speaker 1: church member. She does talk about how she meets this

1152
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:48,920
Speaker 1: older married man that's part of the church, and I

1153
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 1: guess he's high up in the church. He ends up

1154
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: sexually abusing her.

1155
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.

1156
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 1: And I think her rationale for why it happened, or

1157
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:59,320
Speaker 1: why she didn't say no, was that she had been conditioned.

1158
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't see red flags, right, you know? You

1159
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:03,799
Speaker 2: see someone that you and I would think is a

1160
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 2: red flag. And to her it's normal because she's had

1161
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 2: crappy people around her mom, dad, and lesbian lover.

1162
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 1: Included lesbian lover. Okay, let me ask you just your

1163
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 1: opinion about this. So when Sherry eventually cuts off contact

1164
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 1: from this older man, who, by the way, I believe

1165
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:22,320
Speaker 1: is married and has kids, and told her bishop what happened,

1166
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:25,879
Speaker 1: her temple recommend a document that certifies that you're worthy

1167
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 1: to to enter and participate in temple ceremonies, was revoked

1168
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:32,760
Speaker 1: for a month. She claims that the older the older

1169
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 1: man that did this to her face no punishment.

1170
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 2: First of all, people make mistakes, and there are people

1171
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 2: in churches that make mistakes. So you can't fault teachings.

1172
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 2: You can fault the men or women men. So if

1173
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 2: they took her temple recommend away, they probably did while

1174
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:53,359
Speaker 2: they were researching what was going on. But you don't

1175
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 2: really take it. It's all on the honor system. So

1176
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:58,160
Speaker 2: it's not like they took it away and said, you know,

1177
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:00,880
Speaker 2: raided her house and took it away. It's they probably

1178
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 2: put it on hold while they looked into things. I

1179
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 2: don't know. I don't know what happened, but I know.

1180
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 2: It's also not a criminal court, so they're not really

1181
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 2: going to bisciate as much as they, you know, as

1182
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:14,399
Speaker 2: a criminal court would. But they'll they'll you know, ask

1183
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 2: questions and try to diffuse it and try to get it,

1184
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 2: get it to end, and report anything. If there's anything

1185
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 2: in front of them, they will report it. I've been

1186
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 2: I know bishops that have have had to report things

1187
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 2: and testify. So it does happen, and it should with

1188
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 2: a bishop, is.

1189
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 1: There the same type of confidentiality like with a psychologist,

1190
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 1: or psychiatrist or a lawyer. Yeah, is there is there

1191
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 1: a bishop, bishop member?

1192
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 2: You mean like within the church. Yeah, I mean, I

1193
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 2: mean they're not going to go They shouldn't be going

1194
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 2: blabbing everything. So you're saying it's more if there's a

1195
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 2: crime being committed, then they should be reporting it, absolutely,

1196
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 2: But you're.

1197
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 1: Saying it's not. It's not a written doctrine. It's more

1198
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: of like a moral issue that you just kind of

1199
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 1: balance as to what's right and wrong and what should

1200
00:57:59,200 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 1: be held.

1201
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 2: And they do the Japan book before. It's been a

1202
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 2: long time, but I've read through it and it's very

1203
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 2: much about protecting people and protecting the youth of the church.

1204
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 2: That is the calling of the bishop is to protect

1205
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 2: the youth of the church. So if this happened, then

1206
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 2: it failed.

1207
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 1: So the children, now there are six children. The two

1208
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 1: oldest are Chad and Sherry. So Chad has a little

1209
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:23,560
Speaker 1: bit of a social media presence. Obviously, Sherry wrote her memoir,

1210
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 1: and I believe she's doing interviews and she'll probably if

1211
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 1: like you said, it's probably therapeutic and healing for her

1212
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 1: to write all this down, but then also to talk

1213
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 1: about it. I do like in her interviews, when she

1214
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 1: refers to her parents, she refers to them as Kevin

1215
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 1: and Ruby. She never says mom and dad.

1216
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 2: They weren't mom and dad.

1217
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 1: So the two oldest Chad and Sherry, obviously are adults

1218
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:46,439
Speaker 1: now and they're doing their own thing. And then there

1219
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 1: are the four younger children. It's Abby, Julie, Russell, and Eve.

1220
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 1: I guess their names have been released now.

1221
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 2: They were all.

1222
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 1: Placed in state protective custody following their mother's arrest. Their father,

1223
00:58:56,520 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 1: Kevin has since he's filed custody. He wants custody of

1224
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: the children, and he continues to rebuild relationships with the children.

1225
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 1: As far as I know, because I tried to look

1226
00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 1: it up, I couldn't find that he had been granted custody.

1227
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 1: I think maybe it's still working its way through the

1228
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 1: court system. So I believe that currently all four children

1229
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 1: are in state protective custody right now. All right, Lastly,

1230
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 1: maybe there is some good that comes from the story.

1231
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:25,280
Speaker 1: Kevin Frankie. He supports a new Utah bill. This bill

1232
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 1: would require Utah parents to set aside money that their

1233
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 1: children earned making online content, and it's headed by Governor

1234
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 1: Spencer Cox. The bill would also allow adults to remove

1235
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:38,440
Speaker 1: online content they made as kids from web platforms. It

1236
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 1: passed the US Senate twenty or the Utah Senate. Sorry,

1237
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 1: it passed the Utah Senate twenty seven to zero in

1238
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 1: the final hours of the twenty twenty five legislative session

1239
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 1: back on Friday, March seventh, and it had previously passed

1240
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 1: the House.

1241
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 2: That's good, that's something, but that doesn't control the behavior right,

1242
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 2: the content.

1243
00:59:57,000 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 1: Right, This is the monetary right. Kevin Frankie testified in

1244
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:04,600
Speaker 1: support of the bill in February, recounting that the eight

1245
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:08,479
Speaker 1: Passengers YouTube channel his now ex wife launched. He called

1246
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 1: the bill a great first step towards protecting child influencers

1247
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 1: here in the state of Utah, and there is much

1248
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 1: more to do in the future. Now here's my question,

1249
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:21,439
Speaker 1: so active Now, Well, one, I think that he has

1250
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 1: a public image now and people are commenting on his

1251
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 1: public image, so I'm sure not only do I think

1252
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:31,720
Speaker 1: he probably is legitimately a good guy. I mean, he

1253
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 1: didn't do anything horrible. He was just I mean he

1254
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 1: married her and had six kids. Yeah, but he was complicit.

1255
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 1: I know what you're saying, but I don't think he's evil.

1256
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 1: She's truly evil. But my question is he is now

1257
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 1: divorcing Ruby even though in the documentary he still claims

1258
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:52,200
Speaker 1: to love her and care about her. And I'm like, man,

1259
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 1: this man is just like he's just brainwashed. But my

1260
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 1: question is do you think that he is divorcing her

1261
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 1: because he has to for his public image, or do

1262
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 1: you think he's still he's probably still completely enamored and

1263
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:07,320
Speaker 1: enticements in.

1264
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 2: Jail, though maybe he doesn't want any ties with someone

1265
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 2: in jail because then he has to, like I don't know,

1266
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 2: then he can cut her off.

1267
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 1: I don't feel like he wants to. I feel like

1268
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 1: he just is divorcing her because it's like what he

1269
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:22,560
Speaker 1: has to do to restore some of his public image.

1270
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 2: So he's not remarried or anything like that. I don't

1271
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 2: think so well, he can't be if he's still married.

1272
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 1: Oh, that's right. I think there was a question he

1273
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 1: is illegal.

1274
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1275
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:35,520
Speaker 1: I think there was an interview I read with him

1276
01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 1: where someone was asking is he dating and he said

1277
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 1: no because he's still legally married to Ruby, which I

1278
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 1: know in the church that even if.

1279
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 2: They're separated, you should wait till you're not legally married, right.

1280
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:52,920
Speaker 1: So I think that's where he's at. So all right. Anyway,

1281
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:57,480
Speaker 1: that is the Ruby Frankie case, which was a horrific.

1282
01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:59,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was not in any way inspiring.

1283
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:02,120
Speaker 1: It was not in inspiring at all. Again, Shane, we're

1284
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:04,320
Speaker 1: covering true crime, so I don't think we're going to

1285
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 1: have a lot of inspiring stories. But thank you guys

1286
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 1: for listening. We appreciate it. And if you have any

1287
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:13,520
Speaker 1: comments on Ruby Frankie or Gabby Patito, we would love

1288
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 1: to hear them.

1289
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 2: Anything important that we overlooked or were incorrect on, yeah.

1290
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 1: Feel free to let us know. Thanks for listening. Thank you,