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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of four,

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Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah hart Hunger.

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Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, practicing physician and blogger. On

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Speaker 1: the side, we are two working parents who love our

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Speaker 1: careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family,

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Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping

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Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get

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Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode forty four. Today we'll

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Speaker 1: be talking with Tanya Dalton of Inkwell Press about planning

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Speaker 1: and life in general. Always favorite topics for us. This

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Speaker 1: episode is airing in early June. We are recording it

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Speaker 1: at the end of April, which means that we are

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Speaker 1: planning for a lot of year end kids stuff right now,

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Speaker 1: end of the school year's stuff. I know that we

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Speaker 1: have a kindergarten play, a fifth grade promotion ceremony. We

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Speaker 1: have apparently some sort of art gallery. The fifth graders.

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Speaker 1: I'll do this big art project where they then exhibit

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Speaker 1: their art. We're supposed to come for the gallery opening

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Speaker 1: which is of course eleven am on a Friday. So

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Speaker 1: I can deal with this as a self employed person

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Speaker 1: for the most part, although I'm traveling on some of

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Speaker 1: this stuff. But Sarah, like, I'm curious with you, with

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Speaker 1: you and your husband being in the office, as your

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Speaker 1: job being done at a certain place, I mean, how

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Speaker 1: far ahead do you plan to get time off for

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Speaker 1: this stuff and how do you just rises to the

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Speaker 1: level of being worth it. No, it's a great and

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Speaker 1: very timely question, and I feel like the end of

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Speaker 1: the year is definitely sneaking up on us. This time,

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Speaker 1: I had a patient complain that their appointment was so

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Speaker 1: far away and they're like, it's June first. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: that's in one month and five days, Like that's actually

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Speaker 1: not very far away, and they're like, oh, because it

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Speaker 1: seems like June is another lifetime, but it's actually coming up.

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Speaker 1: And I have noted that as my kids have gotten older,

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Speaker 1: the events seem to be increasing exponentially. Obviously, Genevieve, our

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Speaker 1: baby does not have her own events yet, but both

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Speaker 1: my preschooler and kindergartener all of a sudden have all

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Speaker 1: these things that I'm invited to. My strategy is threefold. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so number one, I'm eighty percent time, which I've recognize

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Speaker 1: is not a luxury that a lot of people have. However,

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Speaker 1: one could sort of make themselves eighty percent time at

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Speaker 1: the end of the year by planning in. It depends

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Speaker 1: on how your job is. Mine is if I were

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Speaker 1: to plan in two random days of wiggle room in May,

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Speaker 1: it's not that hard for me to move things around

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Speaker 1: if I had to, So that would have been a

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Speaker 1: way that I could have kind of handled this had

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Speaker 1: I not had the flexibility that I have. So I'd

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Speaker 1: have like two random days that I picked that I

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Speaker 1: could turn into if I find out I need a

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Speaker 1: half day here, half day there, I can move patients

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Speaker 1: you know how I need to move them. And of

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Speaker 1: course I don't have infinitely way to do this, but

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Speaker 1: you know, if it's only during certain parts of the year,

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Speaker 1: and I'm very careful to create availability other times, then

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Speaker 1: it's usually something that's acceptable. The way I've done at

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Speaker 1: this time is exactly that. So I've sort of been

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Speaker 1: using my days off and moving things around if the

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Speaker 1: event seems like it's important enough. I don't know how

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Speaker 1: to draw that line. I do wonder you know once

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Speaker 1: I have three in school that the bar may become higher. Now,

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Speaker 1: my husband, even though his job is very inflexible, he

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Speaker 1: does happen to work right near where we live and

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Speaker 1: where the schools are, so on that side of things,

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Speaker 1: you know, that actually serves as a plus. So even

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Speaker 1: though his schedule is not flexible, he's much more likely

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Speaker 1: to be able to like randomly duck in and out

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Speaker 1: for just a lunch hour. So there's that. And then

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Speaker 1: my third sort of trick is that, you know, again

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Speaker 1: we're lucky enough in this regard, but we have family

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Speaker 1: that live nearby. So for example, I decided that kindergarten

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Speaker 1: graduation was worthy and that the end of your picnic

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Speaker 1: is worthy. Although I kind of debated, but I thought

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Speaker 1: I could make it work, so I did. But then

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Speaker 1: there was like another end of the year breakfast also

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Speaker 1: for the kindergarten. I'm like, okay, drawing the line there,

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Speaker 1: but I reached out to Josh's mom, Bibe, to see

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Speaker 1: if she could go, and she's going to try to

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Speaker 1: go to that one. So yeah, that's how we've handled things.

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Speaker 1: It is not eay, but I think one strategy is

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Speaker 1: to build in a couple of days off that you

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Speaker 1: can shift around during that time of year and then

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Speaker 1: use other family members as well. There's no reason dad

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Speaker 1: can't come to some of these things. Definitely a dad

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Speaker 1: can go to some of these things, or grandma or

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Speaker 1: you know, other special adults in their family. I love

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Speaker 1: we have this. The kindergarten teacher we've had for the

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Speaker 1: three kids now has a grand person's event in December,

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Speaker 1: I guess, and so any any grand person in your

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Speaker 1: life is invited to it, and we've actually been it's

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Speaker 1: been great, but my parents have been able to come

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Speaker 1: some for two of the kids. But you know, you

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Speaker 1: could send a neighbor, you can send a family friend,

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Speaker 1: you can say you know any special person in the

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Speaker 1: kid's life. So I thought that was pretty cool too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we've been having calendar meetings about end of the year stuff,

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Speaker 1: just making sure that my husband has all the things

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Speaker 1: on his calendar too, and I try to get them

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Speaker 1: ahead of time because I had, you know, a situation

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Speaker 1: last year where I had agreed to do a webinar

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Speaker 1: and it turned out to be right at the moment

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Speaker 1: that my daughter's kindergarten graduation was then scheduled for it.

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Speaker 1: But it hadn't. I hadn't gotten that date, and you know,

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Speaker 1: and so I'd booked this webinar like a couple months

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Speaker 1: ahead of time, and then I tried to move it,

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Speaker 1: but of course then they weren't really that interested in

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Speaker 1: moving it, and I was like, well, you know, daddy

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Speaker 1: can go. I will be not there. But you know,

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Speaker 1: it's just too bad. It's like one of those you know,

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Speaker 1: own goal situations that's so frustrating. I wish. I mean, really,

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Speaker 1: the schools should do a little bit of a better

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Speaker 1: job if they can, on at least the big stuff,

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Speaker 1: laying it out at the beginning of the year. And

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Speaker 1: I understand things have to get moved, but it really

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Speaker 1: is harder for working parents. And it's definitely makes it

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Speaker 1: harder when things are last minute, at least in my profession.

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Speaker 1: And I'm guessing that's true. I mean, it may not

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Speaker 1: have been totally last night. I mean it was still

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Speaker 1: you know, a couple a month or two ahead, but

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Speaker 1: it was just, you know, it's hard. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: exactly what the ahead of time thing is. We've had

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Speaker 1: the end of the school year moving around for us too,

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Speaker 1: because we had so many and so it was they

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Speaker 1: had put extra days in June and then, but at

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Speaker 1: the same time we're petitioning the state to not have

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Speaker 1: to do them, and we just got the waiver. So

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Speaker 1: now the end of the school year's moved back again.

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Speaker 1: But it's God. That's also very stressful from a working

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Speaker 1: parent perspective, because do I need camp? Do I not

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Speaker 1: need camp? Do I need childcare? It's hard for me

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Speaker 1: to accept that not everything can be planned a million

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Speaker 1: years in advance, but I guess it's no. But I

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Speaker 1: love your tip about building in a couple of days

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Speaker 1: of paid time off toward the end of the year

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Speaker 1: if that is remotely possible for you, because then you

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Speaker 1: can use that for these things that inevitably come up.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to be excited to talk to with

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Speaker 1: Tonya about the idea of planning and how she does

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Speaker 1: this as well. So we'll move over to that interview now. Well,

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Speaker 1: Sarah and I are delighted to welcome Tanya Dalton to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. Tanya, thanks for joining us, Thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for having me. I'm happy to be here great. Could

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Speaker 1: you introduce yourself to our listeners absolutely so, As you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: my name is Tanya Dalton. I'm the founder and CEO

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Speaker 1: of Inkwell Press, and we create productivity tools and training

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Speaker 1: to help people live their best life. I also am

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Speaker 1: the host of Productivity Paradox podcast, and I have online

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Speaker 1: courses and do all the different things that have to

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Speaker 1: do with productivity. So keithy plenty, busy, lots of fun.

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Speaker 1: But I'm really happy to be here and talk about

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Speaker 1: productivity and all those things with you guys. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: you were so excited. Yeah, And I was just gonna

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Speaker 1: interject as a planning nerd that I'm super excited to

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Speaker 1: have Tanya on and anybody who has not seen her

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Speaker 1: line of products, there are some of the prettiest planning

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Speaker 1: products that I've seen. And again, I'm a big planner nerd,

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Speaker 1: so this comes from like someone who's looked at a

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Speaker 1: lot of stuff. So you really it has a nice

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Speaker 1: aesthetic sensibility that I think is very different from a

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Speaker 1: lot of the stuff out there. Thank you so much. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think really for me, I really wanted to create

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Speaker 1: productivity tools that felt very useful, very functional. But I thought,

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Speaker 1: why does it have to be functional and boring? Right?

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Speaker 1: Or lovely? That's the other part of it. And I

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Speaker 1: really wanted planning to be this thing that we look

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Speaker 1: forward to doing, that it becomes part of this ritual

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Speaker 1: that we do that we open up the book and

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Speaker 1: it feels like a pleasant experience for the people using it.

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Speaker 1: So I tried to marry that form and function together.

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Speaker 1: So thank you so much. I love that you like

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Speaker 1: it so much. Yeah, and so this business is relatively

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Speaker 1: new though you're a longtime entrepreneur. But Inkwell is your

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Speaker 1: more recent iteration of this. Yes, we launched in November

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Speaker 1: of twenty fourteen. So, as you mentioned, I had a

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Speaker 1: business before, but I closed up that shop in order

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Speaker 1: to really pursue what I was passionate about. I was

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Speaker 1: doing something else altogether, and I did not feel fulfilled

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Speaker 1: by it. I just felt like it wasn't what I

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Speaker 1: wanted to do and what I was meant to do.

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Speaker 1: I loved that it had allowed me to grow a

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Speaker 1: business where my husband could come and he could work

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Speaker 1: alongside me, and we were able to move where we

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Speaker 1: wanted to live, but it really didn't fulfill me with

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Speaker 1: what I was putting forth into the world. So it

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Speaker 1: was kind of a scary time. But I did close

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Speaker 1: up shop, which meant that, you know, we had to

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Speaker 1: tighten up our belts and all those other things. But

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Speaker 1: I really felt it was important to follow what I

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Speaker 1: was passionate about and to spend my time focused on

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Speaker 1: what was most important. And I wanted to spread that

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Speaker 1: message of productivity is not about doing more, it's about

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Speaker 1: doing what's most important and really living your best life.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, so we did that in November of twenty fourteen. Well,

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Speaker 1: can you talk a little I want I want to

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Speaker 1: probe a little bit about this because you know, it

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Speaker 1: was not a you know, tiny business like you guys had,

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Speaker 1: actually you know, yeh grown and so to what how

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Speaker 1: does one then make the decision of feeling like I'm

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Speaker 1: not spending my hours the way I necessarily want to

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Speaker 1: be doing it and I need to do something totally different.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and especially because you had kids as well.

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Speaker 1: I still do. They're still around, I still do, but

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Speaker 1: they were there when this decision was made. So talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit more about that thought process. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: the first business that I started was really one of

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Speaker 1: those things where I thought, you know what, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to start this side business. This will be something that

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Speaker 1: I do. My husband was traveling the world doing international marketing,

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Speaker 1: and I thought this will be a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: I started with fifty bucks and what was it? Sorry,

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Speaker 1: can you tell us? Sure? Yes, I did. I made

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Speaker 1: jewelry and it was a wholesale business, so I sold

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Speaker 1: directly to other businesses. And oh wow, what I did

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Speaker 1: was I started off and I was just doing it

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Speaker 1: on the side. So it was just one of these

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Speaker 1: things that was, you know, when my husband would travel,

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Speaker 1: I would open up shop a little bit. It was

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Speaker 1: it was like a little hobby. Well, I guess about

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Speaker 1: a year after I started it, I was only selling

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Speaker 1: really to friends and family and those kinds of people.

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Speaker 1: I had a conversation with my husband that really changed

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Speaker 1: my life. He was on the other side of the

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Speaker 1: planet and I was there with our two kids in Dallas, Texas,

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Speaker 1: and he I was telling him all the things that

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Speaker 1: were going on with the kids and how Kate was,

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Speaker 1: you know, hitting all these different milestones. She was pretty

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Speaker 1: young at the time. And he said, I'm missing everything.

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Speaker 1: I'm missing all these things with the kids, and I

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Speaker 1: am not happy. And I was so surprised by that.

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Speaker 1: But because I knew that he loved marketing, and I

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Speaker 1: knew he loved what he did, but being away was

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Speaker 1: so hard for him. So I made the decision at

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Speaker 1: that moment, standing in my kitchen at dusk, that I

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Speaker 1: was going to change the direction of my business and

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Speaker 1: grow this little side business into something that was big

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Speaker 1: enough to take his corporate you know, salary, and take

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Speaker 1: that on and allow him to quit working in corporate America.

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Speaker 1: So I sat down that night and I started creating operations,

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Speaker 1: and I started creating these productivity plans and systems of

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Speaker 1: how things were going to work so I could make

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Speaker 1: that goal a reality. And within a year of making

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Speaker 1: that decision, I was able to accomplish that goal. So

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Speaker 1: that was I love that whole narrative just because it's

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Speaker 1: sort of backwards from you know, the traditional woman feels

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Speaker 1: like she's missing everything and decides to stay home, and

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Speaker 1: said it was man felt like he was missing everything,

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Speaker 1: and so woman grows a business that can incorporate the man.

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Speaker 1: That is amazing. I love that. Yes, that's I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's what happened. And so this is the thing is

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Speaker 1: when you know, I hit It was probably in the

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Speaker 1: fall of twenty thirteen that I really started to realize

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Speaker 1: how unsatisfied and unfulfilled I was by my business. What

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Speaker 1: I think was really hard for me was that I

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Speaker 1: do love working with my husband. That was very That

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Speaker 1: part of it was the one part that I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I love this part, and I love that it did

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Speaker 1: allow us to move from Dallas Sexist to Asheville, North Carolina,

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Speaker 1: where we live now. But it was what paid our bills.

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Speaker 1: It did feed my children, who insist upon being fed

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Speaker 1: three times today. And so I went to and I said,

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Speaker 1: I'm unhappy. I don't know what to do. I don't

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Speaker 1: feel like I am passionate about what we do. I

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Speaker 1: could keep doing this because it's making us money, but

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Speaker 1: I'm just not happy. And I am blessed because I

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Speaker 1: do have a very supportive husband who says, you know,

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Speaker 1: you tell me what you want to do. You take

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Speaker 1: the time to figure out what you want to do,

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Speaker 1: and I will support you no matter where you want

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Speaker 1: to go. And so I sat down and I had

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Speaker 1: to figure out what that was going to look like,

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Speaker 1: because at the time, I honestly didn't know what that was.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what the business was that I was

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Speaker 1: going to open. I had no idea. What if there

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Speaker 1: was no passion for me, what if it was just this,

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Speaker 1: you know, this life that I didn't know what I

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Speaker 1: was going to do. So sitting down and really working

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Speaker 1: out and figuring out what are the things I'm passionate about,

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Speaker 1: That's what helped me figure out that I wanted to

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Speaker 1: open Equal Press because I started zeroing in on these

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Speaker 1: different areas of my life that were really key in

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Speaker 1: my happiness. Yeah, so tell us a little bit about that,

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Speaker 1: because I bet we have a lot of listeners who

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Speaker 1: are like, well, I'm unfulfilled on my job too. Imagine that,

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Speaker 1: what a coincidence, And I'm thinking of trying to do

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Speaker 1: something different and possibly starting my own business or figuring

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Speaker 1: out a different career path. So when you were sitting

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Speaker 1: down having those conversations with yourself and that sort of

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Speaker 1: soul searching, what practically did you do to come across,

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Speaker 1: you know, come up with to move from soul searching

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Speaker 1: to like, you know, salesbole product moving forward. Yes, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think one of the most important things

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Speaker 1: you can do is give yourself the time. Oftentimes we

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Speaker 1: tell ourselves I don't have the time. You're familiar with that.

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Speaker 1: I've heard that a few I'm I'm sure you have.

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Speaker 1: You know, people feel like they don't have the time

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Speaker 1: to give themselves this space to be able to really

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Speaker 1: dig deep and think about it. And so I really

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Speaker 1: had to intentionally carve out time that I said, I

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Speaker 1: know this is going to be difficult. I know this

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Speaker 1: is going to be tough. I know there are other things.

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Speaker 1: There's a laundry that needs to be done, and there's

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Speaker 1: a thousand other things to do. But I really need

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Speaker 1: to give myself some space. So I sat down and

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Speaker 1: I started doing some mind mapping. I started doing these

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Speaker 1: different types of brain dumps where I was thinking about

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Speaker 1: the different aspects of my day. So I started off

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Speaker 1: thinking about what is it about my job that I

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Speaker 1: do love? What are the things that I love? And

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Speaker 1: I would just do a big brain dump, you know,

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Speaker 1: based off of those things I was coming up with,

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Speaker 1: and then I would sit down and I would say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: here's one thing. What is it about this one thing

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Speaker 1: that I love? And then I would go down that

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Speaker 1: rabbit hole and then I would allow these rabbit holes

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Speaker 1: just to take me where they wanted to. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's the beauty of giving yourself that time, is

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Speaker 1: that it allowed me to explore and because to me

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Speaker 1: often it's not the first why. It's the fifth right,

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Speaker 1: It's when you dig, and you dig and you ask yourself,

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Speaker 1: why do I like this? Why is that I feel

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Speaker 1: that way? Why? Why? And you start digging into this.

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Speaker 1: And what I started to notice was, so I had

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Speaker 1: all these papers everywhere. Probably looked like a crazy person's

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Speaker 1: house because I had all these papers where I had

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Speaker 1: been brainstorming and mind mapping, and then I've sort of

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Speaker 1: laying them out and looking around and seeing are their themes?

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Speaker 1: Are there certain themes that are appearing again and again

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Speaker 1: and again? And there were there were certain words that

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Speaker 1: would appear, or certain themes with words. You know. One

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Speaker 1: of the things that I honed in on was that

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Speaker 1: I used to be a teacher, and I love educating

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Speaker 1: other people. So there were different things I was doing

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Speaker 1: at that time. I was doing coaching, and I was

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Speaker 1: volunteering in the classrooms to help with helping the teachers.

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Speaker 1: So I kept seeing this theme of education. So I

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Speaker 1: knew that that was part of what I needed to pursue,

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Speaker 1: and that was part of what would become whatever it

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Speaker 1: was I wanted to create. The other things I started

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Speaker 1: to notice was I really loved I was doing a

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Speaker 1: lot of small business consulting, and I was coaching these

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Speaker 1: other women business owners and I loved empowering them and

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Speaker 1: talking to them about how I was able to grow

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Speaker 1: my business and getting them to grow their businesses. And

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Speaker 1: then I loved productivity because that's what allowed me to

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Speaker 1: grow my business the way I did. So I had

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Speaker 1: to look at these things that I started seeing again

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Speaker 1: and again and I had to say, Okay, here, I have,

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Speaker 1: you know, education and teaching, I have empowering others, and

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Speaker 1: I have productivity. How are these related? Right? I have

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Speaker 1: these three things, How am I going to connect them?

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Speaker 1: So I had to create this thread that connected these things.

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Speaker 1: So for me, when I decided I wanted to do

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Speaker 1: something that was about productivity, I knew I wanted to

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Speaker 1: create products and tools, but I needed to have education

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Speaker 1: be a big part of it. So from the very start,

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Speaker 1: whenever we sold planners, they always came with a series

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Speaker 1: of setup videos that walk you through how do you prioritize,

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Speaker 1: how do you set your goals? How do you do

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Speaker 1: these things? Because I wanted that education part to be

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Speaker 1: a part of that, and I wanted these people who

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Speaker 1: were buying the planners to feel empowered with their planning

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Speaker 1: so it became this thing where I needed to connect

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Speaker 1: those and sometimes it's not really obvious right away. You

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Speaker 1: have to create those threads to connect them and bring

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Speaker 1: them all together. Was it easier to launch the side

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Speaker 1: second business? I mean having had the first experience, I know,

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Speaker 1: you had a pretty big launch for inquell Press, then

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Speaker 1: on day one we did. Yeah. I would say so

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Speaker 1: to me. The benefit of having something that you've walked

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Speaker 1: away from, whether that's a success or a failure, is

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Speaker 1: that the lessons that you've learned throughout that journey carry

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Speaker 1: forward with you, so you don't go into this next iteration,

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Speaker 1: you know, with no suitcases. I had all this baggage,

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Speaker 1: I had all this knowledge that I had accumulated through

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Speaker 1: growing the other business. So I could look at that

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Speaker 1: that first business and go, oh, it was a failure

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Speaker 1: because I wasn't happy. Or I could look at that

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Speaker 1: and say, oh, my gosh, I'm in such a better

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Speaker 1: place than I was when I launched that business because

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Speaker 1: I knew so much more. So I think that really

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Speaker 1: did help. I think to the other part that really

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Speaker 1: helped me was I wasn't afraid to ask questions. I

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Speaker 1: find that a lot of times when we're you know,

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Speaker 1: we're feeling like we want to try something new. We're

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Speaker 1: scared to ask questions, We're scared to say that we

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Speaker 1: don't know what we're doing. So I really approached it

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Speaker 1: though like a new business owner. What are the things

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Speaker 1: I don't know going forward into this business that I

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Speaker 1: wish I had known to my old business, And that

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Speaker 1: kind of allowed me to create this well rounded launch

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Speaker 1: so that when we did launch, it was successful. You know,

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Speaker 1: about a week before we had our launch, I decided

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Speaker 1: we started kind of our launch campaign in the summer,

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Speaker 1: and we had no people on our email list because

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to carry people over for my old business.

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Speaker 1: I didn't think that was right to pull them into

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Speaker 1: this new business. So I started with nobody on my

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Speaker 1: email list, and about a week before our launch, I

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Speaker 1: looked at my husband and I said, this is either

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Speaker 1: going to be a really great week or we're going

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Speaker 1: to be living in our car under a bridge. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what. Right, But then launch day came and

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Speaker 1: we had five hundred orders, And I really attribute a

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Speaker 1: lot of that to the fact that I was so

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Speaker 1: passionate and so excited about this new business and the

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Speaker 1: direction that I felt it was going to take me

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Speaker 1: that I was able to pour myself one hundred and

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Speaker 1: ten percent into it. And I think that makes a

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Speaker 1: huge difference whenever you're doing something, if you truly believe

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Speaker 1: in it, if you believe that what you're doing is

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Speaker 1: part of who you really are at your core, it

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Speaker 1: makes such a difference in how you feel about how

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Speaker 1: you feel about it. Even being work, it doesn't feel

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Speaker 1: like work. It feels like something you're excited to wake

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Speaker 1: up and do every day. That is fantastic. I had

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Speaker 1: a question about the logistics of you said you loved

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Speaker 1: working with your husband, so that is definitely a bit

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Speaker 1: of an unusual situation. So still get that opportunity. I

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Speaker 1: think it'd be kind of fun, but can't figure out

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Speaker 1: how to make that happen. I'm just kidding, But yeah,

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Speaker 1: how did that evolve? And then how has that evolved

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Speaker 1: in terms of childcare? You know, our reader our listeners,

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Speaker 1: not readers, love to hear the nuts and bolts of

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Speaker 1: you know, what makes the day to day work in

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Speaker 1: two income households and with you guys working together a

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Speaker 1: lot of the time, you have a bit of a

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Speaker 1: unique perspective on this. Yeah, that's a great question. So,

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00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,399
Speaker 1: as I mentioned earlier, when I started the business, originally

432
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 1: I ended up bringing him on. And what I really

433
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,000
Speaker 1: love about my husband is that he says to me,

434
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 1: you know, you're the one who started these businesses. You

435
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 1: are the CEO. So we don't deal with a lot

436
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,200
Speaker 1: of that power play that maybe other people have dealt

437
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,920
Speaker 1: with because he says, you know, you're you're the charge.

438
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,960
Speaker 1: And then he's my CMO, so he is my chief

439
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 1: marketing officer, and he does finances and he does a

440
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 1: few other things. So we just really work well together,

441
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,439
Speaker 1: I think because we have a mutual respect, not only

442
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 1: in business but also in our personal life. I think

443
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 1: respect is one of those things that's so important in

444
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 1: a marriage anyways, but it's also very important with a

445
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,919
Speaker 1: business partner. But we do definitely have to, you know,

446
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 1: create a strong division at times, because sometimes I have

447
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,399
Speaker 1: to say to him, I need you to talk to

448
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 1: me right now as my husband, not you know, not

449
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,359
Speaker 1: business John. I need you to be husband John right now.

450
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,399
Speaker 1: So it's taken a little bit of time to really

451
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 1: figure that out and get that flow, but it works

452
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 1: really well for us, and I love that we get

453
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 1: in the car we drive our kids to school together.

454
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,200
Speaker 1: We're you know, in the carpool together. We go to

455
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 1: the office, we literally sit across the desk from each other,

456
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,880
Speaker 1: our desks butt up against each other. We see each

457
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 1: other all day long, and then we go home together.

458
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 1: So our kids are now older. Jack is now fifteen

459
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 1: and Kate is eleven, So things are a little bit

460
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 1: simpler childcare wise at this point because Kate can come

461
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,719
Speaker 1: home from school and get off of the bus and

462
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,440
Speaker 1: she's able to go home and be at home for

463
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 1: thirty minutes, while I'm willing to get Jack from the

464
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 1: high school. But you know, when we were starting out,

465
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 1: there was a lot of working from the house, and

466
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 1: we would you know, on mother's day out days or

467
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,160
Speaker 1: on preschool days. Those were our days where we were

468
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 1: working a lot harder and a lot more focus than

469
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,960
Speaker 1: on the other days. So we would take turns a

470
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,440
Speaker 1: lot of times with who was in charge of childcare,

471
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 1: who was picking up, and those types of things. But

472
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 1: that has just naturally progressed as we've moved forward. I

473
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: think one of the things that's really important when you're

474
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: doing a business like this is our business truly is

475
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 1: a family business. My kids come in they were on

476
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,160
Speaker 1: spring break a couple of weeks ago. They come in

477
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,959
Speaker 1: at least one day for every week they're off of school,

478
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 1: and they come and they work and they make boxes,

479
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,399
Speaker 1: or they will help make goalfoil cards, or they will

480
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: you know, stuff stuff envelopes. But they're a very active

481
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: part of our business. And I started that when they

482
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 1: were really tiny. So when Kate was just, you know,

483
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 1: barely walking, I would give her a stamp path and

484
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 1: I would say, oh, you know what, I need all

485
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 1: of these pages stamped. Even if it wasn't really something

486
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,439
Speaker 1: I needed. It was just a way for her to

487
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 1: always feel like she was involved in the business, because

488
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: I wanted them to feel like they were a part

489
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 1: of it and to not ever resent the time that

490
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: I spent on what I was doing. So we've always

491
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,719
Speaker 1: all along kept them involved in what we're doing. So

492
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: one of the things that I do now is I

493
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,199
Speaker 1: leave the office every day at three o'clock and I

494
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 1: go home and I take my CEO hat off and

495
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: I put my CEO at home hat on, right, Because

496
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 1: I'm the CEO at the office and I'm the CEO

497
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 1: at home. It's two very different roles, but it allows

498
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 1: me to shut that door to work and really focus

499
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 1: and give my full, intentional time to my kids and

500
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,199
Speaker 1: to my family. So that's one of the things that

501
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: really has been very helpful for us, is you know,

502
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 1: having that ability to transition and I'm home in the afternoon,

503
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 1: I'm able to help them with their schoolwork. We're able

504
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 1: to do after school activities. Uh, and that's that's worked

505
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: out really well. That sounds awesome. Can I ask you

506
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,919
Speaker 1: a planner NERD question? I love planner NERD question. What

507
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 1: are you currently using for my planner? Yeah? Well, we

508
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: have a daily Planner that I really love because it's

509
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: a new product for this year, and it's one of

510
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: those things where whatever I roll out a new product,

511
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: I always test it for a good six months before

512
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 1: I even you know, put it into production. So I

513
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: use my Daily Planner and what I love about it

514
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: is that I don't believe to do lists work, so

515
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 1: I it does not have a to do list. It

516
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: has a priority list on it, and so that has

517
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: really helped me feel so much more empowered over where

518
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 1: I want to focus my time and spend spend my day.

519
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,479
Speaker 1: So I've been using that. Wait, what's the difference all right,

520
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 1: what makes it a priority list versus to do list? Well,

521
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 1: to me, a to do list is a long list

522
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,199
Speaker 1: that's just jumbled up. There's no real order to it.

523
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 1: You just add items as you think about it. Right,

524
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: It almost works as a brain dump. And to me,

525
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 1: a to do list is way too long, so it's

526
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 1: never achievable, which is why we often go to bed

527
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: and our head hits the pillow and we feel so

528
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 1: unsatisfied and unsuccessful, even though we were busy all day long,

529
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: because we have this massive to do list. And I

530
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 1: often tell people that, you know, we feel so overwhelmed

531
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: because we don't know where to start. Overwhelm isn't having

532
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 1: too much to do. It's not knowing where to start.

533
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: And so instead of making it to do list that

534
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: doesn't tell me where to start, I create a priority list.

535
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: So the priority list has three different levels to it.

536
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 1: It takes the same amount of time as doing it

537
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 1: to do list, but what it does is it tells

538
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: me where to start. I start at the top and

539
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 1: I work my way down. So my first category is

540
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: immediate items, and these are items I need to tackle

541
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: right away because they are important and they're urgent. And

542
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: then the second section are tasks that are important. So

543
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: these are items that are important but not urgent, so

544
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: they don't have like a looming deadline or they're not

545
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: you know, screaming fires that need to be put out.

546
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: But that is my biggest section of my priority list

547
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: because that's where I want to spend the majority of

548
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: my time, because I want to make sure my important

549
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 1: items don't over turn into my urgent items, because I

550
00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: want to spend my time being proactive rather than being reactive.

551
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: So I have the immediate, then I have important, and

552
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: then my bottom section is insignificant. And that's for the

553
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: items that are unimportant. And when I say unimportant, I

554
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: mean they don't move me towards my goals. They're not

555
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 1: connected to my mission or my vision or my pore values,

556
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 1: so they're unimportant, but they're urgent. And a lot of

557
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: times this is a lot of the emails or you

558
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: received during the day, the things that we're doing that

559
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: are other people's priorities. And I put those at the

560
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: bottom because even though they're urgent, and even though they

561
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: feel like a fire that needs to be put out,

562
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 1: a lot of people start with those things because they

563
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: just want to get them crossed off their lists, but

564
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: because they're not truly important, I don't want to spend

565
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: the majority of my time on that that's the last

566
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: part of my day. So by creating a priority list,

567
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: I start at the top and I get my all

568
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: of my important things done first, and that's what allows

569
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: me to feel so much more successful. And then because

570
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,120
Speaker 1: it's a limited amount of space, it allows me to

571
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 1: make my day achievable. Because I think that's one of

572
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: the things that especially because women we do we like

573
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: to just keep adding things on our list and adding

574
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 1: more things and adding more things, and our list gets

575
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: to be three miles long. It's almost a little badge

576
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: of honor to have a ridiculously long to do list.

577
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: But what I really like is that it allows me

578
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 1: to really focus in and hone my time on what

579
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: I really want to do and makes my day achievable.

580
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: So you talked about, you know, having some of the

581
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 1: stuff that's lowered down the priority list. I'm curious as

582
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: a business owner if the skill of delegation has been

583
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: one you've had to learn over time, And I wonder

584
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: if you could talk a little bit about how any

585
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: advice you'd give to people on learning to do absolutely.

586
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: I think that delegation is one of those things that's

587
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: really hard to hand over because we have a certain

588
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: way we want things to be done. So that's a

589
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: little bit of that perfectionism that you know, a lot

590
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 1: of us fall prey to. We want other people to do,

591
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: you know, these tasks, but we don't necessarily give them

592
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 1: the ability to do it. And a lot of times

593
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: when I'm talking to people about delegation, it's that idea

594
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: of you know, a woman and a man comes home

595
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: from the hospital and they have a baby, and the

596
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: husband goes and he and he goes to change the diaper,

597
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: and the wife comes in and she goes, oh, no, no no, no, no,

598
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: that's not how you do it. You're doing it all wrong. Here,

599
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: give me the baby, and she takes the baby and

600
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: she dipers it again. And then the next day the

601
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,959
Speaker 1: husband tries to die for the baby, and she goes, no, no, no,

602
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: you're doing it all wrong, and she takes the baby

603
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: back again. And this continues, and then what ends up

604
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 1: happening is the husband eventually says, you know what, I

605
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: never die for the baby, right, I'm just gonna stop

606
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: diapering it all together, right, and then what ends up

607
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: happening is she says, well, can you believe he hasn't

608
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 1: changed a diaper in six months? But it's because we've

609
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: taken these tasks back instead of just allowing these people to,

610
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: you know, whether it's your husband, or your kids, or

611
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: your coworkers, to take a little bit of accountability for

612
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: what they're doing. We have a certain way that we

613
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: really feel like it has to be done a hard

614
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: time of letting go of those ideas and those visions

615
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 1: that we have in our own head of what these

616
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: things need to look like. So what I try to

617
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: encourage people to do is look at delegation as development.

618
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: It's a chance for you to really give to someone

619
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: else and to allow them to develop these skills or

620
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: these you know, these areas in their life that maybe

621
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: would make them a little more well rounded. And it's hard,

622
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: you know, like with especially if it's your kids, because

623
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: they either do it too slow, or they do it wrong,

624
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: or or any of those things that it's so much

625
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: faster for us to do it ourselves. But if we

626
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: look at delegation as development and we look at it

627
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: as an investment, it really can change the way that

628
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: you feel about it that it feels a little easier

629
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: to let go of, you know, for me with my kids.

630
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: You know, I'll give the example of laundry. When my

631
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: kids were little, I have an automation that I do

632
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: at home where Tuesday was laundry day. So I would

633
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: call up the stairs every Tuesday, say it's Tuesday, it's

634
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: laundry day. The kids started to learn that Tuesday was

635
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: laundry day and their job was to bring their laundry

636
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: baskets down. Laundry baskets don't come down, Laundry doesn't get

637
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: done right. Well, as they got older, then I would

638
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: have them sit next to me and they would sort

639
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,239
Speaker 1: the laundry. I could have totally sorted the laundry so

640
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: much faster, right, but I had them do it, and

641
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: I would stand over them and help them do it,

642
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: and then I would go put the laundry into the

643
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: washing machine. Well, then it became all right, it's Tuesday,

644
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: it's laundry day. They bring their baskets down. They sorted

645
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: their own laundry without me standing over them. And then

646
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: you know what the next step was. Now you put

647
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: your laundry into the watching machine yourself, right and now

648
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: here my kids are eleven and fifteen. Guess who does

649
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: their laundry. Not me. I don't do their laundry, They

650
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: do their own. So yes, all along as they were

651
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: growing up, I could have done the laundry so much

652
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: faster than they did, but I started delegating that to them,

653
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: and I started investing and making these little tiny deposits

654
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: into who they are, and now my kids can totally

655
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 1: do the laundry. And as a matter of fact, about

656
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: two months ago, we went ahead and aside my daughter

657
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: to be in charge of washing all the towels. So

658
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: now I don't even watch towels. That's now one of

659
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: the things that she does as part of her chour list.

660
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: So I think if you start looking at it that way,

661
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 1: as you know, these investments into other people, I think

662
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: it makes it so much easier to open up that

663
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: possibility to give some of these tasks away. Excellent. Well,

664
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: I have definitely, you know, even in the short time

665
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 1: since the five years since I've been an attending physician,

666
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: have learned my lesson about how to delegate. And it

667
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: is so true that taking that time to really train

668
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: those who work with you is pays back dividends and

669
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: that's interesting because you can think about how that relates

670
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: to the planning process because those are items that maybe

671
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: aren't important that you are the one doing that, right,

672
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: it's exactly right to me. It's the insignificant item. Those

673
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: are the things you should definitely be either a saying

674
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: no to altogether or delegating out to someone else. And

675
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: delegating doesn't mean it has to cost money. A lot

676
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: of people think, oh, does that mean I have to

677
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: hire somebody, you know, do I have to hire somebody

678
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: to clean the house. No, it just means bring in

679
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: the rest of your family to help out and start

680
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: pitching in as well. There's no rule that says that

681
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: you have to do everything, and I think that's hard.

682
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: But you're right when you're you know, as you said,

683
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: like when you when you give these tasks other people,

684
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: it really does pay back in dividends. I have a

685
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: question about this though, because I mean, obviously you're you know,

686
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: delegating at work to family members and delegating that at

687
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: home is as well. Has there ever been tension with

688
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: this that, you know, maybe you and your husband have

689
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: a disagreement on the business side or a tense day

690
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: from that and then it carries over at home or anything. Oh,

691
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: we are humans, so yes, it has happened. Has happened

692
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: where you know, we have opposing viewpoints. That's me putting

693
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: it nicely that I'm right he hasn't figured that out yet.

694
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,280
Speaker 1: But you know, sometimes we'll have this, you know, opposing

695
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: viewpoint and we're having an intense conversation about it at work,

696
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 1: and then it wants to carry over at home. And

697
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: there are times where we have to say to each other,

698
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 1: you know what, we're at home. This is very We're different,

699
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,439
Speaker 1: we're different roles for each other. We have to walk

700
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: away from that easier said than done. But generally, for

701
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,720
Speaker 1: the most part, I think we have a very open

702
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: communication with each other, so it does help, and we

703
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: generally just try to talk it through and figure it out.

704
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, just like any other married couple. Yeah, we

705
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 1: work together. We love working together. We still fight. I

706
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: mean there's times where the trash doesn't get taken out

707
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: right or things like that, or someone has forgotten to

708
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: do something at work. And I think that's one of

709
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: the things though, that we have to make sure that

710
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,959
Speaker 1: we're offering grace to one another and we're remembering that

711
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: we have these different roles with one another as well. Awesome. Well,

712
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: I think this has been fantastic. I encourage our listeners

713
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 1: to at least take a look at her stuff because

714
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,240
Speaker 1: I'm telling you it's just very different and very pretty.

715
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 1: And I also want to mention she mentioned her podcast,

716
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 1: The Productivity Paradox, and she talks about a lot of

717
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: different planning topics. Productivity topics kind of a little bit

718
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 1: on the theme of what she's talked about today in

719
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: terms of perfectionism as being her theme for this season.

720
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: But if you like ours, then that would be one

721
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: you might want to check out out. So I appreciate

722
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: you spreading the word. It really is one of those

723
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: things with you know, as I mentioned, education is so

724
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: important to me, and so the podcast is just an

725
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,760
Speaker 1: extension of that. So it's a it's a great vehicle

726
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: for getting to talk about one of my favorite topics,

727
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: productivity exactly. So, Tanya, we have a part of the

728
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: podcast every week where we say our love of the week.

729
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 1: I think Sarah has one that's that's planner related. Yeah,

730
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: don't worry, no competitive, No, I'm going to competitor's product

731
00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: I'm going to mention I don't think you have any

732
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: line of writing instruments at least as of now. But

733
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 1: I will tell you that I am trying them all.

734
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: But I'm currently into paper meat flare pens, which are

735
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: kind of like basic. You know, I have to you

736
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: use all the fancy Japanese stuff to go back to.

737
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: That seems a little odd, but you know what, they're

738
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: really good felt to pens. They come in really good colors,

739
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,800
Speaker 1: and I'm really into them right now. Yeah, I'm holding

740
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 1: a paper mate ink Joy Gel zero point seven at

741
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: the moment, which I have found through trial and error

742
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: is my favorite. Yes, Okay, I'm very particular about pins.

743
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: Like the pens are one of the things at home

744
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: that the kids know like off limits. Those are moms

745
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: pens not to the use. Okay, you got to tell

746
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: how you fight disappear. You know what I do. I

747
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: have a bag that I carry them in and they

748
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: go with me back and forth to the office. They

749
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 1: have to literally pick they have to go in my

750
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 1: bag and steal them and then you know, but I

751
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: love the pens. Those are one of my favorite. Oh

752
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: I've heard I've never tried those. Interesting, I'm writing that down. Hell,

753
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: so I do have a lot of colors. Yeah, they

754
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 1: come in a lot. I like, there's a certain smoothness

755
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,240
Speaker 1: I'm looking for. And again kind of a pen snob

756
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, well that was what I liked. My

757
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: enjoy or whatever is. It's very smooth writing. But I

758
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: don't need all the colors, so that's probably why I'm

759
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: still on the low end pen market. I have smearing

760
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: I have. I'm a left hander, so jee I can't,

761
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,280
Speaker 1: can't you? Yeah, but they're very pretty for other people.

762
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: All right, Well, Tanya, thank you so much for being

763
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: having me. I really enjoyed it. Well that was great.

764
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: So now coming to our Q and a portion of

765
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: the episode, we got a great question. We get all

766
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,879
Speaker 1: sorts of great questions from listeners. Please keep sending them in.

767
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 1: You can always email me el vanderkammat yahoo dot com,

768
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: or if you want to post questions on our blog

769
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: on the Instagram for this podcast. All of that is great.

770
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 1: We'd love to see them. This question comes from a

771
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 1: woman who says she has twelve years into her career

772
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: as an electrical computer engineer, programming in a manufacturing environment,

773
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: which is fast paced and challenging. She says she's good

774
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: at what she does, and partly because of this, for

775
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 1: the past few years, people have been strongly hinting that

776
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: she should move into management. She has tried some of

777
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: the She's done temporary management stents of certain projects. As

778
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 1: her exploration, she says, in my company and position, it

779
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: is really the only way to move up, to get

780
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 1: more salary, move up the ladder, is to be in management.

781
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 1: She says. The problem of code, of course, is that

782
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 1: she really loves what she does on the technical side,

783
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: right She loves coding, investigations, working with individuals and operations,

784
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: and she knows that moving into a management would replace

785
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 1: that technical side with things that she doesn't enjoy, namely meetings,

786
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: overseeing financial aspects, managing people. So you know, things are

787
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 1: shifting around. She's wondering again if she should do this.

788
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: Everyone is always telling her, like, yes, move up. That's

789
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 1: how you move up in life. That's how you get

790
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: more salary. In her particular case, her husband's salary she

791
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: thinks won't necessarily go up all that much, so it

792
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 1: should be a you know, it's important for her family

793
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: to have more money. To The technical track at her

794
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: job moves up very slowly, so she's asking us what

795
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: do you think we should do? Like, should she stay

796
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: on the technical side, which she knows she loves. Should

797
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: she move into management, which is how you move up

798
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: at her company and make more money? What do we think?

799
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: So you know, obviously, Laura vandercam dot com, the tracks

800
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: are what they are. But Sarah, with medical work, you

801
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 1: guys come with this all the time because you can

802
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: move into management, but then you don't see as many patients,

803
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 1: or you stop seeing patients. So how do you make

804
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 1: this decision? Yeah, although as you said that, I will

805
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 1: say that Laura vandercam dot com. Yes, it is what

806
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: it is. Although I've seen some websites morph into more

807
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 1: where someone who used to be a primary blogger and

808
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: speaker than morphs into more of a supervisory role. So actually,

809
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 1: you never know. There are versions of this, I think everywhere.

810
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 1: Although yeah, it probably wouldn't be called Laura Vanner you

811
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 1: weren't the primary person doing it. But no, I think

812
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: this is such a good question and I can relate

813
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 1: to this. I also, before I even talk about how this,

814
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: I've thought through this. It reminds me a little bit

815
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 1: of one of our earliest Actually it was our first

816
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: guest podcast and if you haven't listened to Shavon Brady

817
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 1: talk about her, you know, role as a scientist and

818
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 1: running a lab, you should go back because it was

819
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 1: I think an excellent episode. Anyway, So you know, she

820
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 1: started out in science doing genetics, pipetting things, growing plants

821
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 1: because she does plants genetics. And you know, we were

822
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: talking to her and I think, Laura, you asked her

823
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: something about like, oh, you're doing something. She's like, well,

824
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,280
Speaker 1: you know, I don't really like do that stuff anymore.

825
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: I don't do any of the hands on science. I

826
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 1: more run the lab. I manage the lab. I sort

827
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: of I have the CEO kind of a role. I

828
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 1: decide which projects are worth working on and what aren't,

829
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: and I mentor others and I'm a leader. And you know,

830
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 1: I've talked to Shaban like do you miss the old part?

831
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: And I don't get a sense that she does. I

832
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: do think they're in certain technical fields. There becomes a

833
00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,760
Speaker 1: point where maybe you get burned down on the technical

834
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 1: side and it feels natural to kind of move on

835
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: to more the oversight. But I've actually spoken with scientists

836
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 1: who I have a friend who has actually stayed on

837
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 1: as she's a pH d. But she's more of a

838
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: she still does the hands on stuff, and I don't know,

839
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 1: I don't know what to call her role. Her first

840
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: name is E. I think she listens to this podcast

841
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,399
Speaker 1: high E. But she has chosen she wants to stay

842
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 1: hands on. So I do think there is value to

843
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: either side. And the unfortunate part is you're right, it

844
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 1: is harder to move up in terms of salary and

845
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,879
Speaker 1: in terms of leadership on the purely technical side. From

846
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: my angle, I have not been asked to be program

847
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,919
Speaker 1: director of our residency program, but at one point during

848
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 1: sort of a mentoring session, I was asked like, do

849
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: I have ambitions to do that? And I answered, honestly,

850
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: who knows whether that was the right choice or not.

851
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,359
Speaker 1: But I said, well, right now, no, I don't want

852
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: to do that because I am not in a place

853
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: where I want to let go of the technical stuff

854
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: that I do all day, which is mostly seeing patients

855
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,760
Speaker 1: and doing endochronology. And I know that if I were

856
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 1: running our residency program and then this would really really

857
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: change my job and I'd be less of a doctor

858
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 1: and more of a teacher, and I don't want to

859
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: do that, So I totally get what this person is saying.

860
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 1: Here's my thought. If you still like development leadership skills

861
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 1: and you want to move up, but you still want

862
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: to do your stuff, see if there's any place of

863
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 1: a hybrid, which is kind of what I'm doing now, Like,

864
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,720
Speaker 1: so maybe there's an ability to be an assistant leader

865
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 1: or run some big project without letting go of most

866
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 1: of the technical things. And the other thing I would

867
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,800
Speaker 1: think about is maybe it's worth experimenting. So one option

868
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: would be, if something opens up, see if you could

869
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,840
Speaker 1: maybe get a role as an interim chief or interim leader,

870
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 1: so that if it doesn't work, it's not a matter

871
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: of failing. It's just like, oh, I was covering for somebody,

872
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: and that way you were able to see how it

873
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: works and see if you miss the technical side as

874
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: much as you thought you would. And if you do

875
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 1: miss it, it'd be easily to slide back in. And

876
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: if you don't, then it would be easy to say, oh,

877
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: that was so successful, I can slide into that acting

878
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 1: chief as actual chief. So those are my two thoughts.

879
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: I do find that you know older people in medicin,

880
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: and I do see a lot of burnout not in everyone,

881
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 1: so there may be you know, I certainly have not

882
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: gotten to that point at all. I still really like

883
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 1: that side, and you really like the side you're on,

884
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: but you never know where you'll be in a decade.

885
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: So I guess the other thing is like, just remember

886
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 1: you don't have to decide everything now. There could still

887
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,240
Speaker 1: be opportunity to move up later. Yeah, and I think

888
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 1: this is a broader point. We have people listening to

889
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: this who are in management and such. It's really cool

890
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: sometimes to have better ladders on the technical side of things.

891
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 1: I know some schools have been experimenting with. There's obviously

892
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: if a great teacher wants to move into a principal role,

893
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: that would be awesome, But some teachers want to stay

894
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,439
Speaker 1: in the classroom. Are there ways for them to get

895
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 1: more seniority, get more pay, get more responsibility, broaden their

896
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 1: scope while still being teachers, Like are there master teacher

897
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: roles that they can take on? Same thing with a technical,

898
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 1: you know job like this, maybe there's like a master

899
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: technician sort of designation that this plant that she works

900
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,040
Speaker 1: in should come up with, right, and that somebody you

901
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: know in her position, could you know, rise quicker, like

902
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,320
Speaker 1: get more pay, get more seniority and still be technical,

903
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 1: like they can teach new people, they can go to

904
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: different plants and do stuff like they can you know,

905
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 1: trot her out for conferences to give presentations on the

906
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: stuff they're doing. She can be the person who always

907
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 1: presents to management about you know, the technical worlds, and

908
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: she could in fact propose some of that stuff, right,

909
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 1: Like she can propose more of a master technician kind

910
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: of designation that that would be a ladder hierarchy they

911
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:34,439
Speaker 1: could do. So, you know, I don't think this needs

912
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: to be either or necessarily like you're either technical or management,

913
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 1: and once you're in management, you're always out of technical.

914
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 1: As as Sarah saying, there might be a hybrid, or

915
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: there might be ways to encourage your company to think

916
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 1: more broadly and holistically about how they can keep people

917
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 1: who are on the technical side and really want to

918
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,399
Speaker 1: double down on that too. All right, well, this has

919
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,879
Speaker 1: been Best of Both Worlds episode forty four. We will

920
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: be back next week with more and making work in

921
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: life together. And just a quick note, if you are

922
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 1: enjoying this podcast, which we really hope you are, please

923
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,319
Speaker 1: consider sharing it with a friend. A lot of our

924
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 1: listeners are coming to us through recommendations. We're hearing that

925
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: from people and we really appreciate your sharing the word.

926
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 1: You can rate us on iTunes you can leave a review.

927
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: Those are very helpful too. When people are searching for

928
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: new podcasts. It so helps to see other people who

929
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 1: are like this potential listener saying that they really enjoy it,

930
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 1: so please consider doing that as well. Come visit our websites.

931
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: Sarah and I both blog Sarah's over at the Shoebox

932
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 1: s h U box to our initials. I'm at Laura

933
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: vandercam dot com and we would love to hear from you,

934
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: so thanks so much for listening in thanks for listening.

935
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 1: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com

936
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:56,319
Speaker 1: or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can

937
00:45:56,320 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has

938
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 1: been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us

939
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 1: next time for more on making work and life work together.