Speaker 1: It's Monday, April five. I'm Oscar Ramirez from the Daily
Speaker 1: Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is Reopening America.
Speaker 1: The pandemic flipped the educational system upside down last year.
Speaker 1: It changed so much for students, but it also made
Speaker 1: it difficult for teachers, making worse a trend that was
Speaker 1: already happening before the pandemic. Fewer students are wanting to
Speaker 1: pursue teaching lope was already making people think twice, but
Speaker 1: now add in the perceived increase in risk. Emma Goldberg,
Speaker 1: reporter at the New York Times, joins us for more.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Emma, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: having me on. We've talked a lot on the podcast
Speaker 1: about how the pandemic has affected schools and our students,
Speaker 1: you know, teachers as well. One of the main things. Obviously,
Speaker 1: the falling behind in the academics is one thing. The
Speaker 1: mental health of students and teachers has been another issue.
Speaker 1: But now we're also seeing kind of an exacerbation of
Speaker 1: something that was already happening before the pandemic, fewer people
Speaker 1: wanting to be teachers, or at least people apply trying
Speaker 1: to programs to be teachers, and we're just kind of
Speaker 1: seeing that intensify with the pandemic. There's been a lot
Speaker 1: of things. Fear for your health obviously, and then just
Speaker 1: kind of all the added things that have come along
Speaker 1: with the remote learning, hybrid school learning. It's just really
Speaker 1: been a difficult go. So I'm gonna tell us a
Speaker 1: little bit about what we're seeing with fewer students wanting
Speaker 1: to pursue their teaching degrees. So I think we know
Speaker 1: the pandemic has up ended a lot of different professions,
Speaker 1: but as you kind of alluded to, just now do
Speaker 1: more so than teaching. You know, people are either going
Speaker 1: into work in person and there's not concerned for their
Speaker 1: own safety and health, or their teaching remotely or into
Speaker 1: the hybrid format, which can be really challenging in terms
Speaker 1: of getting the results you want to see for your students.
Speaker 1: So I spoke with the American Association of Colleges for
Speaker 1: Teacher Education, which did a survey of all their member institutions,
Speaker 1: and they did find that Enroland is down at both
Speaker 1: undergraduate and graduate level teaching programs for under good to
Speaker 1: A levels. That's almost for graduate level, just about ten
Speaker 1: percent of a decline and enrollment this year. So tell
Speaker 1: me now a little bit about why they think enrollment
Speaker 1: is down. You know, as I mentioned, a lot of
Speaker 1: things having to do with the pandemic, but historically also
Speaker 1: there's a lot of dissatisfaction with low pay, the working conditions,
Speaker 1: and the tough teachers that are put in having to
Speaker 1: take care of so many kids. Really expand on that,
Speaker 1: if you could please, This is a long running problem.
Speaker 1: For years, enrollment has been dropping at both graduant undergraduate
Speaker 1: level teaching programs, and that low pay compared to other
Speaker 1: professions that require a similar level of education is often
Speaker 1: cited as one of the main reasons. So a public
Speaker 1: school teacher might make around six dollars a year, but
Speaker 1: that's lower than people with similar levels of education, including
Speaker 1: advanced degrees. So that's been a long running problem. But
Speaker 1: then suddenly you add the pandemic, which brings a whole
Speaker 1: slew of other problems for teachers from you know, having
Speaker 1: to go in in person and be potentially exposed. Although
Speaker 1: you know, there is that research showing that there isn't
Speaker 1: as much of a risk of transmission in schools and
Speaker 1: with kids, but it's still you know, is a challenge.
Speaker 1: It just having to go in and do your work
Speaker 1: in person when other people are teleworking, and then the
Speaker 1: other it's just all the challenges of remote teaching. Teachers said.
Speaker 1: A lot of the trainees as they spoke to said
Speaker 1: they had looked forward to being in the classroom, being
Speaker 1: able to form real emotional personal connections, and that's a
Speaker 1: lot harder to do when you're on zoom with your students.
Speaker 1: So some of the motives for why they wanted to
Speaker 1: go into the profession in the first place might have
Speaker 1: been kind of taken away during the pandemic, right. And
Speaker 1: there's a lot of students also that are in flux.
Speaker 1: They've gone through maybe half of a program or half
Speaker 1: the years of schooling that they need to get their
Speaker 1: credentials in all, and they might be stuck. They might
Speaker 1: be considering other avenues, other types of employment where skills
Speaker 1: can be transferable, or they say, hey, I'm I'm so
Speaker 1: far in this, I gotta finish now. And then after
Speaker 1: that the training that comes with it. You know, you
Speaker 1: have to be placed in classrooms and be trained, and
Speaker 1: some of that has been taken away altogether because of
Speaker 1: the pandemic. If it's remote schooling, I mean how can
Speaker 1: you get into classroom and start working with kids. So
Speaker 1: that's been another difficulty for students and people trying to
Speaker 1: become teachers. Exactly. I spoke with a lot of different
Speaker 1: students across the country who are studying to be teachers
Speaker 1: right now, and I heard a real ranto reductions. I mean,
Speaker 1: some of them really are considering switching to different career paths.
Speaker 1: Some of them are looking for career paths that have
Speaker 1: transferable skills, like human resources, because they're saying, you know,
Speaker 1: I realize this is not what I want to do.
Speaker 1: I want to I want to take my skills and
Speaker 1: apply it to something else that might be easier or
Speaker 1: higher playing. And some of them are sticking it out,
Speaker 1: and they're saying this is actually reinforced the reasoning for
Speaker 1: wanting to go into the profession. I did talk to
Speaker 1: a lot of students who said, more so than Aubury
Speaker 1: this year, they're aware of how deeply teachers are needed,
Speaker 1: and so this is only reinforcing their desire to do it.
Speaker 1: So I heard a broad range of responses. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: even mid endemic, we're hearing stories about teacher shortages only
Speaker 1: because teachers didn't want to go in. They were scared
Speaker 1: for their safety, didn't want to catch the virus. And
Speaker 1: you know, school districts were turning to bus drivers, other attendants,
Speaker 1: janitors even to watch kids in the interim until they
Speaker 1: can get substitutes in there, and and even rules relax
Speaker 1: for substitute teachers so that they can take over classrooms.
Speaker 1: You know. So there's been a lot that has been
Speaker 1: going on throughout the pandemic. This decrease in in teachers
Speaker 1: and and people applying to these programs hasn't been happening everywhere, though.
Speaker 1: I think in California, California State University Long Beach still
Speaker 1: saw some enrollment climb up for them, So it's not everywhere.
Speaker 1: But this is just kind of looking forward towards a
Speaker 1: possible shortage of these other trends continue exactly. And you
Speaker 1: know that is a little bit of a problem when
Speaker 1: you consider that actually, a schools begin to open more
Speaker 1: and more in person, we're actually gonna need more teachers,
Speaker 1: basicly because a lot of schools are hoping to have
Speaker 1: small out costs I do to allow students to social
Speaker 1: distance from one another, especially while children still are ineligible
Speaker 1: for the vaccine. So you know, you are looking to
Speaker 1: have smaller class sizes, and at the same time you
Speaker 1: might have fewer teachers to draw from a smaller pool,
Speaker 1: So it's hard if you want to bring on more
Speaker 1: staff that you're facing a potential shortage. We saw that
Speaker 1: there was a lot of money being poured into schools
Speaker 1: through these COVID relief bills that were just recently passed.
Speaker 1: Is anything being appropriated to help with this, to get
Speaker 1: more teachers. I know a lot of it was focusing
Speaker 1: on vaccines and testing, but has anything any been any
Speaker 1: money been thrown with regards to this part of it.
Speaker 1: The COVID relief package to prove by President and and
Speaker 1: does include a hundred and twenty nine billion dollars in
Speaker 1: funding for K to twelve schools, which is great. Some
Speaker 1: of that can be used to increase staff, and actually
Speaker 1: the new Secretary of Education due to recently call for
Speaker 1: all kinds of things that are needed to reopen schools safely,
Speaker 1: including bringing on more employees, So it looks like some
Speaker 1: of that can begin to up and there might be
Speaker 1: some money coming from the release pocket. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: been such a roller coaster for schools, for the children,
Speaker 1: for the teachers, administrators, everybody. Really. I'm hoping that once
Speaker 1: we start getting a little bit back to normal, this
Speaker 1: stuff will start to normalize as well, because it's an
Speaker 1: important part of our students lives, so and you know,
Speaker 1: we need the teachers there to support them, so hopefully
Speaker 1: this will all turn out. I'm a Goldberg reporter at
Speaker 1: the New York Times. Thank you very much for joining us.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me on. I'm Oscar
Speaker 1: Ramirez and this has been reopening America. Don't forget effort
Speaker 1: today's big news stories. You can check me out on
Speaker 1: the Daily Dive podcast every Monday through Friday. So follow
Speaker 1: us on I Heart Radio or wherever you get your
Speaker 1: podcast