1 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, when is all this physics research going to 2 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: pay off? Payoff? What do you mean did you invest 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: in some exo planet startup kind of like with my taxes? Right? 4 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: Isn't all of physics research funded by the public. I 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: guess that's true. But isn't the sheer pleasure of learning 6 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: about the universe enough for you? Like you want some 7 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: cash out? Also, it's not enough for my bank account. 8 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: That's fresh. But you know, I'd be nice to get 9 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: at least some nice invengors out of it. You know, 10 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: I think everyone is still waiting for the teleporting machine, 11 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,919 Speaker 1: or the backpacks or the warp drive. Well I might 12 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 1: be able to offer you a pasta maker. Is it 13 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: a warp pasta maker? No, but it's a black hole 14 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: powered spaghettification machine. What what's the plane? Are were going 15 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: to open an Italian restaurant next to a black hole? Yeah? Exactly, 16 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: fresh black hole pasta delivered in a thousand years. You're 17 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: getting not tipped from me if it takes a thousand 18 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: years to get my dinner darker than a squid. Inc 19 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: Is it fusion? For see or inguinilla physicists? It must 20 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: be or zoes because their length contracted or is the 21 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: little grain ones? Hi am more handmade cartoonists and the 22 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: creator of PhD comics. Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle 23 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 1: physicist and a professor a UC Irvine and I do 24 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: make homemade pasta. Oh you do? Do you make each 25 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: noodle individually or do you have one of those machines? 26 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 1: I sculpt them by hand. Each one is a work 27 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: of art. I give them a name. I meant an 28 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,320 Speaker 1: n F T for each one I see. And then 29 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: everyone just gets one piece of pasta for dinner, one 30 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: big pasta, exactly pasta, and they're called one giant too. 31 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: Do you just set it down in the middle of 32 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: the dinner table? Sit here? That's right, exactly, Technically it's pasta. No, 33 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: we use a pasta machine and so we slice it 34 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: up into spaghetti or linguini or one of the other nies. Yeah, 35 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: we have one of those in our house and we've 36 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: used it a few times. But it's a lot of work. 37 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: It absolutely is a lot of work, but there's also 38 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: something fun about it. You get your kitchen all flowery 39 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: and your pants all covering flower At the end, you 40 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: get something which tastes a little bit better than something 41 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: you can buy in the store, a little bit better. 42 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: I guess it might be worth it that. But welcome 43 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, a 44 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio in which we turn your 45 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: brain into spaghetti by exploring all of the mysteries of 46 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: the universe, everything that's out there that makes sense to us, 47 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: and everything that's out there that doesn't yet make sense. 48 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: We talk about the tiniest little particles buzzing around in 49 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: your toenail, all the way up to supermassive black holes 50 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,839 Speaker 1: anchoring enormous galaxies billions of years away. We don't shy 51 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,519 Speaker 1: away from the biggest, deepest, darkest, craziest, most bonker's question, 52 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: because we want to introduce you to the craziness that 53 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: is this universe. That's right. We take all of that 54 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: amazing resource that physicists and scientists are doing at the 55 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: edge of human knowledge. We take that and we boil 56 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: it for a really long time until it's soft and 57 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: soggy enough for people to consume. No, we stop at 58 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: just the right moment so we can serve up the 59 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 1: information all dente. We like it a little bit of crunch. 60 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: Your kids like it with a little bit of crunch. 61 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: Mine like it's super soggy. Yeah, no, mine like it overcooked. 62 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 1: They even call it overcooked. They're like, make sure to 63 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: make it overcooked. Make sure you overcook it. And then 64 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 1: we sprinkle it with a little bit of olive oil, right, 65 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: and that jokes exactly. Do you like your pasta with bananas? Well, 66 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: that's how we're serving it today. Oh man, we just 67 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: invented a new recipe, banana marinara. That's just fun to 68 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: say a and b intriguingly tasty. Perhaps maybe, I don't know, 69 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: maybe more controversial than pineapple on pizza is banana on pasta. 70 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: It's a slippery slope once you start putting fruit into 71 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: it telling food, especially if the banana peels are all 72 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: over the floor, then it's definitely a slippery slope. Yeah. 73 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: So we like to talk about science and all of 74 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: the amazing things that people are out there discovering and 75 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: all of the big mysteries, all the things we don't 76 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: know about the universe, every thing that physicists are in 77 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: their offices and labs thinking about and pondering about that 78 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: maybe one day will be something that everybody knows. That's right, 79 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: and there's a variety of motivations for digging into the 80 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: mysteries of the universe. Some of us just want to know, 81 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 1: are driven by the insatiable curiosity to understand the universe. 82 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: See it as a giant puzzle, a mystery posed for 83 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: humanity that we need to unravel, no matter how many 84 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: millennia takes to gain that understanding of the universe. But others, 85 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: the more practical minded folks among us, might be interested 86 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,359 Speaker 1: in figuring out how the universe works to better our lives, 87 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: to figure out how to put it to work for us, 88 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 1: to take advantage of that knowledge to deliver inventions to humanity. Yeah, 89 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:44,840 Speaker 1: because that's what the universe is there for. Right, It's 90 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: there for us. It's the whole reason it's there, is 91 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: just to make our lives easier and more exciting. I suppose. Maybe, 92 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: I mean it could be there for the aliens, right, 93 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,679 Speaker 1: maybe we're just part of the aliens universe. Wait, what 94 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: we're there for the aliens? Hopefully not for dinner. Maybe 95 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 1: maybe we're just here to be a plot twist in 96 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,799 Speaker 1: some drama that's been going on for thousands of years 97 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: over on Proximus Centauri. You know, well, I see, we're 98 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: just like an adjacent to an event or Avengers movie 99 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: or something exactly. You thought you were going to be 100 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: part of the main cast. It turns out you only 101 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: got a few lines. You won't get your own Marvel 102 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 1: movie for another trillion years. Perhaps they'll eventually make a 103 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: Marvel movie out of every single person in the Marvel 104 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: University plant. It will be the ultimate crossover, you know, 105 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: it will just be called not the Marvel Universe, just 106 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 1: the universe. Well, regardless of why the universe exists, of 107 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: question we may never know the answer to. It is 108 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,679 Speaker 1: interesting to think about how we can put the universe 109 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: to work for us, because sometimes the knowledge of physics 110 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: extracts does have practical value. Yeah, I mean, we have 111 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 1: nuclear fission right, powering most of Europe, I think, and 112 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: a lot of the United States and around the world. 113 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: That was all physics, right, That was all physics, the 114 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: good and the bad. We also have nuclear weapons into 115 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: that civilian populations and used for political ends. But you know, 116 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: there's two sides to every corn. Yeah, that's right, it's 117 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: all your fault. But even our everyday sort of inventions 118 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: that we use every day in our cell phones, have 119 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: you know physics stuff in it that we learned, maybe 120 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 1: not the cutting edge stuff now, but stuff that was 121 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: cutting edge a long time ago. You know, all those 122 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: tiny little circuits and how they work down at the 123 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: atomic level. We needed to understand how to make those things. 124 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: That's right. Essentially, the nature of your life today, the 125 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: way you live your day is the way it is 126 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: because we understood quantum mechanics that lead to revolutions in 127 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: computing and therefore electronics and your life. And so it's 128 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: true that basic research, digging into the nature of space 129 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: and time and forces eventually gives us the power to 130 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: change our lives. You know, it's a song I've lung 131 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: many times on this podcast. I don't understand why politicians 132 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: don't just invest more in basic research, because it pays 133 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: itself back a hundredfold. Every dollar you spend today gives 134 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: your children and your grandchildren improved quality of life. I 135 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: don't get it. Why do we don't invest in that more? Actually, 136 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: that's kind of an interesting philosophical question, like do you 137 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: think we could have invented the cell phone without knowing physics? Right? 138 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: Like could we just have been tinkered and then done 139 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: engineering just to get it to work and eventually gone 140 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: on the cell phone without understanding quantum mechanics or fusion. Absolutely, 141 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: I think, as from a philosophical point of view, it 142 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: is possible to make technological advancements without understanding what you're doing. 143 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: We have sort of like the invention of modern science, 144 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: at least in the Western world, only like five years ago. 145 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: This question is like trying to develop models that explain 146 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: what we're seeing. But we definitely had technological advancement well 147 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: before then. People have been forging very impressive like samurai 148 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: swords for thousands of years without understanding, like what's going 149 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: on with the metallurgy they were doing. Why are you 150 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: dipping the sword in water now? And then you dip 151 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: it in this other thing and you wait this number 152 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: of seconds. You can sort of random walk your way 153 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: into technology without understanding what's going on. Could you get 154 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: all the way to the cell phone? You know, you 155 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: give yourself off another thousand years or million years? Yeah? Maybe? Wait, 156 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: so are you saying that we don't need physics, then 157 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: I think that's what you just concluded. I think technically 158 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: you don't need physics, but definitely it helps. It's super 159 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: charges your technological advancements because you understand what's going on, 160 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: then you can come up with new ideas for how 161 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: to use them. You're like the little sprinkle of parsley 162 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: at the top of the pasta. Is that what physics 163 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: has been reduced to in this episode? I'd say you're 164 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: the reason you're getting your pasta in five minutes instead 165 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: of in a million years. Oh, I see, I see, 166 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: I see. That's you're the reason it's not stale and stiff. 167 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: Right up, we're getting hot, fresh pasta because of physicists. 168 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: That's right. I'll take credit for that hot fresh cell 169 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: phones slurp it up. Would you like a little parsley 170 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: on your cell phone? Having some bananas? Well, at least 171 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: you can look at pictures of bananas and parsley in 172 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: your cell phone now instead of in a thousand years, 173 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: So that that's something. So that's something. Yeah, exactly, I'll 174 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: put that on my CV. You can swipe left on 175 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: a banana and do all kinds of things with it. 176 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: But yeah, it is a pretty amazing universe, and sometimes 177 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: we wonder if we can put more of it to 178 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 1: work for us, especially the things out there that are 179 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: amazing and seemingly super amazingly incredibly powerful exactly because we 180 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: are struggling constantly as a species to extract enough energy 181 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: for our survival. At the same time, we are surrounded 182 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: by intensely powerful astrophysical objects. The Son, of course is 183 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 1: a great example. We capture a tiny little bit of 184 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: its energy, and they're even more powerful, incredibly vast things 185 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: out there that are like huge engines pumping out energy. 186 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: Could we take advantage of some of these incredible astrophysical 187 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: machines to gather some energy we need, you know, to 188 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: charge our cell phones. So today on the podcast, we'll 189 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: be asking the question can we put black holes to 190 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:54,959 Speaker 1: work for us? WHOA Daniel? I feel like this is 191 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: going to that idea of putting an Italian restaurant next 192 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: to a black hole and maybe having a black hole 193 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 1: watched the dishes for us. Is that what you mean? Yeah, 194 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: I'm just wondering when the black holes are going to unionize, 195 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: you know, when they're gonna rise up against us, their oppressors, 196 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: and be like, hey, these conditions are terrible and stuck 197 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 1: out here in the middle of nowhere and we're just 198 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: eating gas and dust all day interesting, and then they're 199 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: going to change their name to red holes. You know, 200 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 1: solidarity of communism. That's right, black holes of the universe unite. 201 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: You have nothing to lose but your event horizons. That 202 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: is their ultimate plan, isn't it all black holes? They 203 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: just want to unite and get basically create one giant 204 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: union or one giant black hole, one socialist black hole exactly. 205 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: That's the future of the universe. This is a question 206 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: by tapping into the power of these crazy objects, I 207 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: mean the amount of light radiated from black holes, amount 208 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: of gravitational energy stored in black holes, we are like 209 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: sitting on the edge of an incredible river of energy 210 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: and we're just really bad at tapping into it. We're 211 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,599 Speaker 1: like burning coal that we dig up from underground to 212 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 1: get tiny little slipper of energy out. It's ridiculous. Yeah, 213 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: there's a lot of amazing things happening in the universe, 214 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 1: but you know, I would think that black holes would 215 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 1: be sort of like the last place you go to 216 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: to get energy or to get anything useful out of it, 217 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: because you know, they're kind of in the name their 218 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: their holes. It's like, why would you go to a 219 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: hole to get something out of it? Maybe we could 220 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: throw a trash into the black hole, so we wouldn't 221 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: have to think about it. But it's kind of weird, right, 222 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: because black holes suck everything in and once he gets 223 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: sucked in, you can't get out, So it's kind of 224 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,079 Speaker 1: weird to think that you could use them for anything useful. 225 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: That's true, but they are also really vast stores of energy. 226 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: I mean, the reason that they are black holes is 227 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: because they have so much mass in them, and that 228 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: mass reflects internal store and energy. So you can think 229 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: of a black hole like a giant cosmic battery. So 230 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: much energy has been poured into it. It's just sitting there, 231 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: compressed and dense and bubbling up. So it's tempting to think, like, 232 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: can we tap into that a tiny little bit? But 233 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: it's weird because we know nothing can ever get out 234 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: of a black hole. That's true, we can to take 235 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: anything out of a black hole. But remember the black 236 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: holes have influence far beyond their event horizon. If you're 237 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: anywhere near a black hole, they will tug on you 238 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: the same way the sun does. And so the mass 239 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: of the black hole, even though it's contained within the 240 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: event horizon, can influence things outside the event horizon, and 241 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: you can use that gravity to maybe charge your cell phone. 242 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: I see, you just want to mooch off of their influence, 243 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:28,479 Speaker 1: all of their hard earn, you know, connections and information. 244 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: That's right. You go to the black holes Instagram page 245 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: and you leave a comment and maybe you'll get it 246 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: to followers. That's the plant. See there you go first 247 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: to pose. But yeah, and and this has something to 248 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: do with and the concept called the ergosphere, which is 249 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: a sort of a weird, weird thing, right. Yeah, people 250 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: are used to thinking about black holes is just having 251 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: an event horizon, but black holes turn out to be 252 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: much more complicated than that. They have various regions within 253 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: and outside of the event horizon that might let you 254 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,199 Speaker 1: tap into it to use its energy. And so that's 255 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: the central part of this concept. And then to buy 256 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: Roger Penrose to tap into the energy of a black 257 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: hole through its ergosphere. Right, So that's kind of a 258 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: strange word. So as usual, we were wondering how many 259 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: people out there had heard of this concept of the 260 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: ergosphere or know that it's related to black holes. So 261 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: Daniel went out there into the Internet to ask people 262 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: the question, what do you think is an ergo sphere? 263 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: And things very much to our volunteers. If you'd like 264 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: to participate, please just email me. It's very easy. You 265 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: can record your answers at home, in the leisure of 266 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: your bathrobe or whatever you like. Please just email us 267 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: two questions at Daniel and Jorge dot com. Right, but 268 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: you don't have to wear a bathrobe to answer it 269 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: to you? Or is that a weird little request just 270 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: from you. You don't have to wear anything. You don't 271 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: have to tell me what you're wearing. It's totally up 272 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: to you. No dress code for these questions. Well, I 273 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: feel like the more we talk about this, the creepier 274 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: it gets. Anyways, here's what people have to say. People 275 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: have some pretty interesting answers ergo the following. Well, that 276 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 1: makes me think of two things. The exosphere, which is 277 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: the sort of of um for this limitations I think 278 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: of our planet, right, the exosphere is like the furthest 279 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: layer out maybe before the magnetosphere you think of like 280 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: atmo tripo sphere. So maybe ergosphere has something to do 281 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: with that layering system of of different tiered spheres around 282 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: the Earth. But it also makes me think of ergonomics, 283 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: So maybe it has something to do with the most 284 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: ergonomic the most efficient way to have a spear or 285 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: um some sort of three dimensional object. I happen to 286 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: know that ergo means work and sphere is a round object. 287 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: If I had to guess, I would say it's some 288 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: kind of moving or working around object, or surrounds something 289 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: that's round that's moving. That's the best guess I got through. 290 00:14:56,080 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: Sphere obviously makes me think of the term atmosphere, but 291 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: it's nothing I ever heard in relation to Earth, So 292 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: I would think maybe it has to do with the 293 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: atmosphere of other planets, maybe even the atmosphere around stars. Well, 294 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: it sounds like ergonomics, but I'm guessing it doesn't have 295 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: anything to do with that, so maybe some sort of atmosphere. 296 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: All right. People had some pretty good answers here. I 297 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: mean people sort of related it to ergonomics, which is 298 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: maybe sort of related, right because someone as someone pointed 299 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: out the word ergo means work. Yeah. I like that 300 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: when people have no idea what I'm talking about, they 301 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: try to break down the linguistics and understand the origins 302 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: of the word, because that assumes that somebody out there 303 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: in the astronomy community has made a sensible choice of names. 304 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: For this thing. Ha ha ha the fools, little did 305 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: they know? You just picked names out of a hat. 306 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: That's right. It is a bit of a leap of faith. 307 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: So I appreciate that. Thank you. That's a vote of 308 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: confidence right there for astronomical naming. But sort of is 309 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: that true? Does ergo really mean work? Like that's where 310 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: ergonomics come from. I just kind of got my mind 311 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: blown a little bit. Yeah, ergonomics is like, how do 312 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: you say comfortably while you do work? I see, it's 313 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: not the economics of work, and there's the anomics of 314 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: the ergo. But yeah, so it has something to do 315 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: with black holes and also work, which is kind of 316 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: what we're talking about, right, getting black holes to work 317 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: for us exactly. The ergo sphere plays an important role 318 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: in trying to extract work from a black hole, to 319 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: get it to give you energy, and also to do 320 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: it in a comfortable posture so that it doesn't get 321 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: lower back paint. All right, well, Daniel, maybe let's start 322 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: at the beginning here and maybe step us through what 323 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: exactly is a black hole for those of us who 324 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: had not heard about it before or heard our podcast. 325 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: So black hole is the most dramatic feature of Einstein's 326 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 1: general relativity, this concept that gravity is not just a force. 327 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: It's not just the way two things tug at each other. 328 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: But it's not really a force. It just comes out 329 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: of the act that space itself is curved. So when 330 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: you have a really massive object, it curves space time, 331 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: meaning that it changes the relationship between points and makes 332 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: some of them closer and some of them further, so 333 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 1: that light, for example, appears to travel in a curve. 334 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: It's very naturally moving through curved space. So matter bends space. 335 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: It tells space how to curve, and then space tells 336 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: matter how to move. And if you have enough matter somewhere, 337 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,199 Speaker 1: if you have enough density of stuff in a small 338 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 1: enough area, then you curve space so much that it's 339 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:38,479 Speaker 1: distorted that every path now leads towards the center. And 340 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: that's what a black hole is. It's a region of 341 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: space where every path now leads towards the center of 342 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: the black hole, making it impossible to exit. Some people 343 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,880 Speaker 1: think it's because gravity is so strong. It's like tugging 344 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: on those photons and making it impossible for them to leave. 345 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: That sort of a Newtonian view of a black hole 346 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: A better way to think about it is that space 347 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 1: is so distorted that every future you have ends in 348 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: the singularity. Every path you could take always ends at 349 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 1: the center of the black hole if you're inside the 350 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,239 Speaker 1: event horizon, right, because like even the Earth does that, right, 351 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: Like the Earth technically sort of bend space time around 352 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: it so that it to us, you know, it's kind 353 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:16,639 Speaker 1: of down is the only way to go, right, I 354 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: mean the gravity we feel now sitting here, Like the 355 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: reason I'm sitting in my ergonomic chair is that space 356 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,400 Speaker 1: time around me is bent in such a way that 357 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: it makes my body go towards the center of the Earth. Yeah, precisely, 358 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: every mass been space, not just black holes, not just 359 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 1: the Sun, not just the Earth, but you and the 360 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: banana you ate this morning also bend space. It's just 361 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 1: that the amount of bending depends on the amount of mass, 362 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: and so the more mass you have in a small 363 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: amount of space, the more bending you get. Right. And 364 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: so a black hole is is sort of like the Earth, 365 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: but just super duper dense, right, like a lot more 366 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: dancer and a lot more massive. Yeah, And you can 367 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: make a black hole out of almost any mass. If 368 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: you took the Earth for example, and compactified it down 369 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: to the size of peanut. All that same matter, everything 370 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: that's in and on the Earth, squeeze down to less 371 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: than a centimeter, you would get a black hole, and 372 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: it would have the same gravitational strength as the Earth 373 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 1: does now, but you could get much closer to most 374 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,239 Speaker 1: of that mass. So if you got really close to 375 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: that peanut, it would have a very very strong pull 376 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: on you. Right. In fact, it's kind of mind blowing 377 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: to think about it. Like if you took the Earth 378 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: and you like only left like a mile of Earth 379 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: at the surface, right, Like if you if you hallowed 380 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: it out kind of like an eggshell, he took everything 381 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: that was in the middle the yolk, and you squeeze 382 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: it down to the size of a peanut. Then like 383 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,719 Speaker 1: we wouldn't tell the difference, right, Like life would just 384 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 1: go on exactly the same way, you know, like the 385 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 1: center of the return to a black hole, and we 386 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't maybe feel it, well, you wouldn't feel it gravitationally, 387 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: that's for sure. You would have the same gravitational force 388 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: on yourself, that's true. Of course, it would change, you know, 389 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: tectonics and lava flow and all sorts of other stuff. 390 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: And I don't think that a shell of the Earth 391 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 1: that's a mile thick could hold itself up. But from 392 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: a gravitational point of you absolutely you'd feel the same force. 393 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: Because for gravity, you can always replace an object with 394 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 1: a point particle at its center of mass with that 395 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,479 Speaker 1: same mass, and you'll feel the same gravity. You're not 396 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: sensitive to the details of how the object is put together, right, 397 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: And in fact, it would still kind of keep on spinning, 398 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 1: right because black holes can spin, That's right. Black holes 399 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 1: can spin. And if you make a black hole out 400 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: of something that is spinning, then that black hole has 401 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: to spin because spin is something that's conserved in this universe. 402 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: Something that's spinning can't stop spinning unless you have some 403 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: external torque on it. So in an isolated system like 404 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,959 Speaker 1: a star out in space, if it's spinning and then 405 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: collapses into a black hole, that black hole has to 406 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: have the same amount of spin as the original star. 407 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: And one thing that's interesting about black holes is that 408 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: you know, like if you made a black hole out 409 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 1: of the Earth, you sort of know what was inside 410 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: of that black hole, right, it would be the Earth 411 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: just really squished together, but maybe not right, like maybe 412 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: when things get squished down that much, things maybe change, 413 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: and we have no idea what's going on when you 414 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,880 Speaker 1: squeeze it that small. We definitely have no idea what's 415 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: going on inside the black hole. Like general relativity tells us, 416 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 1: you don't have matter in the same way that we do. 417 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: That it's all squeezed down into a singularity, a point 418 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: of zero volume but non zero mass, and that's the 419 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 1: sort of classical picture. That's what Einstein's prediction tells us. 420 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: But we also know that that's wrong. That can't possibly 421 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: be what's actually inside a black hole for a couple 422 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 1: of reasons. One is that there's an infinity, there's an 423 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: infinite density, so it's not as much a prediction of 424 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: general relativity as a breakdown of general relativity is, like 425 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,199 Speaker 1: this is where general relativity doesn't work anymore. And the 426 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,439 Speaker 1: other is that we know it violates quantum mechanics. You 427 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: can't have a point of zero size and know exactly 428 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: where it is and have it have a zero velocity. 429 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: It's just too much information. That amount of information doesn't 430 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: exist in the universe. So we don't know what's going 431 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: on with the matter that's inside a black hole. But 432 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: we know it's definitely not a singularity. It's probably some 433 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 1: other crazy froth and quantum stuff. And the closest analog 434 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: we have our new tron stars, which are very very 435 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: dense remnants from stars that are not dense enough to 436 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 1: become a black hole. But close and inside the heart 437 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: of a neutron star there are crazy things going on 438 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: with very high temperatures and pressures and weird forms of 439 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: matter that we've never seen before, all new kinds of 440 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: pasta inside maybe turns into cuscous right, like a little 441 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: tiny ball, a fuzzy infinite singularity cosmic cuscoose. That sounds 442 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 1: like a nice name for a dish. All right, Well, 443 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: black holes also have something pretty interesting called an ergosphere 444 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: that may be able to do work for us and 445 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: solve all of our energy needs. So let's get into 446 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 1: what an ergosphere is. But first let's take a quick break. Alright, 447 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 1: we're talking about black holes and their ergosphere. That's apparently 448 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: a feature of black holes that we may be able 449 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: to tap into for energy. I guess data would be 450 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 1: to go to a black hole, Daniel and set up 451 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: like an ergosphere energy sucking station. Next event, Yeah, precisely, 452 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,679 Speaker 1: and ergospheres are really cool because they're a feature of 453 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: a more complicated black hole. Like typical black hole you 454 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,360 Speaker 1: imagine is what you just described. Take the Earth, compactify 455 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: it down to a peanut, you get a black hole. 456 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 1: But most actual black holes out there in the universe 457 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: have more than just mass. They also have spin, like 458 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: we talked about, and the reason is that basically everything 459 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: out there in the universe that could make a black 460 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: hole is spinning. It's very rare to find something out 461 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: there in the universe that's not spinning in some way. 462 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: The Sun is spinning, the Earth is spinning, or Solar 463 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: system spinning, the galaxy is spinning. Everything is spinning. So 464 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 1: if you're gonna make a black hole, then it's gonna 465 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: end up spinning and spinning. Black Holes are more complicated 466 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: than your normal, like vanilla short sized black hole, and 467 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: they have more than just an event horizon. They have 468 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: several regions both within and outside the event horizon, with 469 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: really fascinating different effects on the spacetime. WHOA, and I 470 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,119 Speaker 1: guess you know, it's kind of weird to think of 471 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: a whole spinning, right like a hole is the lack 472 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: of something, you know, It's like if I dig a 473 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 1: hole on the ground, that hole is not. It's weird 474 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 1: to think that the whole will spin. It is weird 475 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: to think about that, And there's sort of two things 476 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 1: to grapple with their one is what's spinning on the 477 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: inside of the hole, and the other is what's spinning 478 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,360 Speaker 1: on the outside. On the inside, it's hard to think 479 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: about things spinning because we imagine a singularity at the 480 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: heart of the black hole, at least in classical general relativity, 481 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:37,679 Speaker 1: and a singularity has no size as zero volume. So 482 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: it's sort of like when we talk about a quantum particle, 483 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: an electron that has spin, but we don't say it 484 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 1: physically spin. This can't spin because there's no extent to it. 485 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: It doesn't change by spinning. So black holes that spin 486 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 1: don't have singularities in them. They have something else. They 487 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: have a ring inside. It's like a ring ularity instead 488 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 1: of a singularity. That's a nice pun, but I guess 489 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: maybe one way to picture it is that if you 490 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: like imagine a black hole forming, right, it's not every 491 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: the stuff that makes that goes into the black hole 492 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: is not going to go straight in and compact itself. 493 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: It's usually like stuff that's swirling and because of gravity, 494 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: it's swirling towards the middle, and then at some point 495 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: it gets squished so much that it enters the event horizon. 496 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: But maybe like the ideas that maybe as it goes 497 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: in it preserves some of that spin, so that maybe 498 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: inside of the black hole things are still spinning like 499 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: the center. Maybe we don't know what's going on, but 500 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: the stuff right outside the center up until the event horizon, 501 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 1: maybe that stuff is still going around in circles. Definitely 502 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: it is, and we see that right, that's what the 503 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,119 Speaker 1: accretion disk is. It's stuff that has so much spin 504 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: that it hasn't yet fallen into the black hole. Like 505 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: you might wonder, how does anything avoid falling into a 506 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: black hole or the same way that the Earth avoids 507 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: falling into the Sun, because we are spinning around that 508 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 1: we have orbital velocity, and we can't just like lose that. 509 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: It can't just go away. The Earth can't just stop 510 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: spinning around the Sun and fall into the Sun. In 511 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 1: the same way the stuff that on deck to go 512 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: into the black hole but is spinning around it. You 513 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 1: can't just like give up that spin and fall in 514 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: the way things fall into the black holes, that they 515 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: bump into each other and that slows them down or 516 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,439 Speaker 1: knocks one of them into the black hole and knocks 517 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,199 Speaker 1: one of them out. So you're write things that are 518 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: about to go into a black hole mostly spin around 519 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: it and then fall in. And if you think about it, 520 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 1: if you're just like a random particle headed towards a 521 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: black hole, unless you're headed exactly at the center of it, 522 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 1: then you have some spin relative to the center of 523 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 1: the black hole. Imagine just a spinning disk. For example, 524 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,400 Speaker 1: if you're a particle and you hit a spinning disk, 525 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 1: unless you hit it at the very center, then you're 526 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 1: gonna make that disc spin faster or slower. Right, But 527 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,440 Speaker 1: I guess I mean like, as I have this sort 528 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 1: of spin relative to the black hole, and then as 529 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: I enter the event horizon and before I fall to 530 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 1: the very core of the black hole, maybe I'm still 531 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: going around in circles or in a spiral. You are, yeah, 532 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: and you still have that spin exactly. And so things 533 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: are spinning on the outside of the black hole, and 534 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: things are spinning on the inside of the black hole, 535 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: and that's just because of conservation of angular momentum, right, 536 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: It can't go away, and so if the black hole 537 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: sort of isolated in space, then the stuff that started 538 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: forming the black hole has to keep spinning. And what's 539 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:19,199 Speaker 1: fascinating is that, you know, maybe the insingularity, it's like 540 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: a circle of zero volume that's spinning, so you can 541 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 1: have angular momentum. But even more interesting is what's going 542 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: on outside the event horizon, because outside the event horizon 543 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: of a spinning black hole is not like a hole 544 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: that you just sort of like slide into. It's more 545 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 1: like a whirlpool, which I think you were like describing 546 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: as you fall in, your spinning around it, and it's 547 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 1: so strong that it's spinning space itself. It's like dragging 548 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: space around with it as it spins. Well, what do 549 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 1: you mean, like it's swirling spacetime itself. Yeah, I remember 550 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: we had an episode about frame dragging. This incredible experiment, 551 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: gravity Probe B that has the smoothest balls known demand 552 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: spinning in these gyroscopes out in a satellite in space, 553 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 1: and these gyroscopes can detect how the Earth spinning is 554 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: dragging space with it, which makes those gyroscopes twist a 555 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 1: tiny bit. So this has the effect of spinning things, 556 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: not just pulling on them. So, because the Earth is spinning, 557 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: it doesn't just tug on satellites out in space. It 558 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 1: also gently spins them a little bit. And that's because 559 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 1: it's dragging space with it. Sort of like imagine putting 560 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: a fork into a big sheet of pasta and spinning it. 561 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: The whole sheet of pasta then gets like twirled up 562 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,679 Speaker 1: around the fork. Whoa, And that's just sort of a 563 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: consequence of the speed limit of the universe. Kind of like, 564 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: why does that dragging occur? Why do things get spun 565 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: around if they're not touching actually the center. It's just 566 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: an extension of the question, you know, why does space 567 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: get bent around masses? We don't know. It's just something 568 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: we've observed. And the effect of space getting bent is 569 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: the force of gravity. Now, the effect of space dragging 570 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: around a spinning object is that it causes a spin 571 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: on things. Remember, the curvature of space creates this fictitious 572 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: force of gravity. Gravity is not just like pulling you 573 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: towards the densest spot. It's also spinning you a little bit. 574 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: So you're saying kind of like the Earth spinning right 575 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: now is imparting a little bit of spin on the 576 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: Moon for example. Yes, and it's a very very subtle 577 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: effect compared to its tug, which is why it took 578 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: a very sensitive experiment. We have a whole episode on 579 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: gravity probe B and what is frame dragging people should 580 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: dig into if they're interested in that. The effect of 581 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: space being spun around on the outside past the event 582 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: horizon of a spinning black hole creates this new region 583 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: we call the ergosphere. Well wait, let me go back 584 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: a little bit, Like in the example of the Earth 585 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: and the Moon, like the Earth spinning is imparting some 586 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: spin on the Moon, but in the sense that like 587 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: it's making the Moon spin faster in place, or it's 588 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: making it spin faster sort of around the Earth spin 589 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: faster in place. Like if you put an object in 590 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: orbit around the Earth that wasn't spinning the Earth but 591 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: very gently started to spin around its own axis. Interesting, 592 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 1: and that is that because of sort of like the 593 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: difference in the distance from the end of the Moon 594 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: that's furtherest from the Earth, and the difference to that 595 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: from the point that's closer to the Earth. You know, 596 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? Like, could that be 597 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: a way to explain why the spinning happens. Yeah, Like, 598 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: imagine what would happen if you put a ball into 599 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: a whirlpool. It wouldn't just fall in towards the center. 600 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: It would start to spin because the current on the 601 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: inner side of it wouldn't be the same strength as 602 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: the current on the outer side of it is. That 603 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: would be an effective rotation on the Earth. I see, 604 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: like the side of the Moon closer to the Earth 605 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: is getting maybe pushed along a little bit faster, which 606 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: is than making the Moon's kind of spin in place. Yeah, 607 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,959 Speaker 1: it's sort of like tidal forces where the Earth is 608 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: pulling harder on the near side of the Moon, for example, 609 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: than the far side because the difference in their distance 610 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: from the center of the Earth, and that effectively elongates 611 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: the Moon. In this case, it's the swirling of space time, 612 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: which is faster closer to the spinning object. The Earth 613 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: with a black hole, just like the near side of 614 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: the Moon is being dragged faster than the far side, 615 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: so it effectively spins the Moon as well as carrying 616 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: it along in this swirling space time. Alright, So then 617 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 1: you're saying that this is kind of what happens outside 618 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: of a black hole, Like if I'm outside of a 619 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 1: black hole, I'm gonna get spun in place because the 620 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: part of me that's closer to the black hole sort 621 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: of wants to spin faster around the black hole than 622 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: the part of me that's furthest away from the black hole. 623 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: And so now imagine a photon moving around a black hole. 624 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: We're still outside the event horizon, right, All the same 625 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: rules apply to a spinning black hole that you can't 626 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: escape the event horizon. But now this is funny region 627 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: outside the event horizon. Think about a photon moving around 628 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: a black hole. A photon moving around a black hole 629 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: is now moving through space itself that's being dragged. And 630 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: so there's this region outside the event horizon where a 631 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: photon moving as fast as it can at the speed 632 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: of light through that space would appear to be stationary 633 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: to you. It's sort of like swimming upstream. So say you're, 634 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: for example, far away from the black hole, and you're 635 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: watching this spinning black hole, and you see a photon 636 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: enter this region outside the event horizon and move against 637 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: the current of the black holes. The black hole spinning 638 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 1: one way and the photons going in the other direction. 639 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: It's sort of like swimming upstream, so like somebody in 640 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: a whirlpool trying to escape. So you're saying, like the 641 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: black hole is dragging space around sort of like you said, 642 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: like the four you know, trailing on a Plato spaghetti, 643 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: and so the spaghetti is all wanting to sort of 644 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: troll in one direction. You're saying, what if I shoot 645 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: a photon that's going in the opposite direction, You're saying, 646 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: it's gonna seem like it's not moving exactly the same way. 647 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 1: A photon inside the event horizon trying to escape the 648 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: black hole in your sort of normal vanilla black hole 649 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: would appear to stop right because it can't escape the 650 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: event horizon. For an outside observer, that photon can appear 651 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: to have zero velocity as it tries to climb out 652 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: of the gravitational well of the black holes event horizon, 653 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: but of course it can't make it out. The analogous 654 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 1: behavior for a spinning black hole and a photon and 655 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: its ergosphere is that the photon is trying to go 656 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: around the black hole, moving opposite the direction of spin, 657 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: but unable to overcome the swirling of space itself because 658 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: it's limited to moving through space at the speed of light. 659 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: It's like somebody trying to swim against a whirlpool and 660 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: getting swept up along with it. Now, inside the ergosphere, 661 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: it gets overcome by the swirling of space, so it 662 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: actually moves backwards, the opposite direction you would expect. The 663 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: edge of the ergosphere is defined as the points where 664 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: the photon appears to be motionless, where its speed is 665 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: exactly counteracted by the swirling of space, and outside the 666 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: ergosphere further from the black hole. Of course, photon is 667 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 1: going to overcome this swirling of space because it's not 668 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: as strong whoa I see. So, because you know, the 669 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: event horizon is where you might in a stationary black hole, 670 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: that's where a photon that's trying to leave the black 671 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,479 Speaker 1: hole would seem like it's stuck in space right, not 672 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: moving right. But you're saying that for a spinning black holes. 673 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 1: Because of this dragging effect, there's some weird stuff that 674 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: happens outside of the event horizon where you can actually 675 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: maybe see a photon kind of stop in space that's 676 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 1: right inside the ergosphere, which is this region outside the 677 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: event horizon. In order to be like stationary relative to 678 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: the black hole, you would have to be moving faster 679 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: than light, and so at the ergosphere. Then what defines 680 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: the edge of the ergosphere is where a photon which 681 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: is moving at light speed can be stationary relative to 682 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 1: the black hole, and so outside the ergosphere, of course, 683 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,800 Speaker 1: you can be stationary relative to the black hole without 684 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,879 Speaker 1: going faster than the speed of light. Inside the ergosphere, 685 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 1: because the space is being spun so fast. To be 686 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,839 Speaker 1: stationary with respect to the black hole, you would have 687 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,359 Speaker 1: to go faster than the speed of light, which is impossible. 688 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: So everything, even photons, are like pushed along in this 689 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 1: whirlpool outside the event horizon, inside the ergosphere, I thought 690 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 1: that was kind of like impossible to see a photon 691 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,799 Speaker 1: like stop. There's a really subtle and fascinating point here 692 00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 1: that we're going to dig into in a future episode. 693 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: It's true that photons are always observed to be going 694 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,240 Speaker 1: at the speed of light. That's like a well known 695 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 1: result of special relativity, But there are some qualifiers to 696 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: that that are not usually explained. Those qualifiers are that 697 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: the photon has to be near you is to be 698 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,840 Speaker 1: a local photon, and it has to be in flat 699 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: space space without any curvature, So local observers people always 700 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,800 Speaker 1: see nearby photons moving at the speed of light, but 701 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 1: things that are far away from you. General relativity says 702 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 1: that if space is curved, you could see photons going 703 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: at faster than the speed of light, or less than 704 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: the speed of light, or even stopping, because in general relativity, 705 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 1: it's very hard to even define what you mean by 706 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: the velocity of objects that are far away from you 707 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,759 Speaker 1: in curved space, Like you wouldn't actually maybe see this 708 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,439 Speaker 1: photon stopping because you know, there's all kind of weird 709 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: stuff going on, all sorts of weird stuff going on, 710 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: and what you mean by velocity in that case is 711 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 1: not even well defined. But we'll dig into that in 712 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: an upcoming episode, right. Not to mention also the question 713 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,319 Speaker 1: of how do you even see a photon? Right, Like, 714 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: the only way to see a photon is if it 715 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: hits your eyeball, Like if it's if a photon it 716 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 1: stuck outside of a black hole, how do you even 717 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,399 Speaker 1: see it? You can't see it, right, You can't even 718 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: bounce a photon office, right. If you can't get to it, 719 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 1: then you can't interact with it, and you can't observe 720 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: it all. Right, So then an ergosphere is sort of 721 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 1: the region of space around a black hole, of a 722 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 1: spinning black hole, where space is being dragged so much 723 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: it's like it can overpower a photon. Yeah. And there's 724 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: one more really cool wrinkle about this, which is the 725 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,880 Speaker 1: shape of the ergosphere. You might think it would be 726 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 1: a sphere, right, Well, wrong, It's more like a taurus 727 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 1: or a donut. It's not spherically symmetric because there's a 728 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: spin axis and the effect is due to spin, So 729 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: the ergosphere is like a doughnut around that spin axis. 730 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,839 Speaker 1: There's actually no ergosphere past the event horizon along the 731 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 1: north south spin axis because there's no spin in that direction. 732 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 1: But on the plane where it's spinning perpendicular to the 733 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: north south axis, the ergosphere can extend out like fifty 734 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: percent further than the event horizon, depending of course, on 735 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: how fast the black hole the spinning, And so there's 736 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 1: no ergosphere sort of like on the north pole. In 737 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: the south pole, it's sort of like a big fat 738 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,359 Speaker 1: blob around the event horizon along the equator. Oh, I see, 739 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: But what is it a donut like a taurus or 740 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:14,359 Speaker 1: is it more like a you know, one of those 741 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,880 Speaker 1: jelly filled donuts, which is like just a flat block. 742 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,800 Speaker 1: It should have been called the ergo jelly filled donut. 743 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: You're exactly right, no, but but seriously, like, what's the shape. 744 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 1: Is it shaped like like a doughnut with a hole 745 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 1: in the middle, or is it shape more like a 746 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,799 Speaker 1: blobby piece of bread. It's a blobby pizza dough that's spinning, right, 747 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: and so it doesn't actually have a hole in the middle. 748 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,919 Speaker 1: At the very core. It's minimum size is the event 749 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,799 Speaker 1: horizon itself, and then it grows out to me to 750 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: have a larger radius at the equator. So it's like 751 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 1: a spinning piece of pizza dough. I feel like there's 752 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: a mathematical name for that kind of shape, but we 753 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: just don't can't come up with it right now. It's 754 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,880 Speaker 1: not jelly filled donut, is it. It's the jelly donut. 755 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: It's it's totally the jelly filled donut. I hear geometrists 756 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: talk about that all the time. All right, Well, apparently 757 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,320 Speaker 1: you can use this ergosphere, this jelly filled doughnut area 758 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: around a spinning black hole to get some work out 759 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 1: of the black hole. So let's get into how to 760 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 1: do that. But first let's take a quick break, all right, Daniel, 761 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 1: how do you put a giant jelly filled donut that 762 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 1: bend space and time to work for you, instead of 763 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 1: just adding some weight around your middle part. The idea 764 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: invented by Roger Penrose is to throw something into the 765 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 1: black hole's ergosphere and have a gravitationally slink shot out 766 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: because of the swirling of space time, and have it 767 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 1: come out with more speed more energy than it had 768 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,840 Speaker 1: going in. That you have, for example, a rock or 769 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 1: a spaceship or something, and you let it come close 770 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: to the black hole. You do not go inside the 771 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 1: event horizon, or of course it's lost forever. You just 772 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 1: go into the whirlpool near it, inside the ergosphere. And 773 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,759 Speaker 1: what happens there is your into this whirlpool, you pick 774 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:03,920 Speaker 1: up a bunch of energy because the black hole is 775 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,319 Speaker 1: pulling on you, so it's speeding you up. So now 776 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 1: you have this energy. But of course you want to 777 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,239 Speaker 1: get out right. You don't want to just spend the 778 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,680 Speaker 1: rest of your life swirling around a black hole eventually 779 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:14,799 Speaker 1: to fall in. So what you have to do is 780 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 1: somehow escape the vicinity of this black hole. But now 781 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,520 Speaker 1: you've picked up all of this energy which is pulling 782 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 1: you in towards the center. So what you have to 783 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,799 Speaker 1: do is sacrifice something. You like chop off a piece 784 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 1: of your block, or you use some fuel or something. 785 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,319 Speaker 1: You throw something into the event horizon. You sacrifice some 786 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 1: part of your ship into the event horizon, which gives 787 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,920 Speaker 1: you momentum the other direction kicks you out and in 788 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: the end you come out with more energy than you 789 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,759 Speaker 1: came in with. Wait what Okay, So I guess the 790 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 1: idea is to throw something at a black hole but 791 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,240 Speaker 1: not and have it sort of like do a swing 792 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 1: by of the black hole without going into the event horizon, 793 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 1: because if it goes into the event horizon, then your toast. 794 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: But you just go right outside of it and somehow 795 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,000 Speaker 1: you're able to escape that when of something escape anyways, 796 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,400 Speaker 1: like you know, we're swinging around the sun. You can 797 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 1: swing a satellite towards the Sun, but it'll just come 798 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,120 Speaker 1: out the other way. Yeah, it's possible to whip around 799 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,560 Speaker 1: the Sun and come out the other side. It's harder 800 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 1: to do that with a black hole because the angles 801 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 1: of escape start to shrink down as you get close 802 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 1: to the black hole, until you have to be going 803 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 1: straight away perpendicular from the black hole in order to escape. 804 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,840 Speaker 1: We do something similar all the time. Change the direction 805 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,839 Speaker 1: of your space probe and give it a little bit 806 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,000 Speaker 1: of a speed boost. You can swing it around Jupiter, right, 807 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,120 Speaker 1: It doesn't have to fall into Jupiter. You can just 808 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: go around Jupiter and it can pick up some energy. 809 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: And we talked about that once on a previous episode. 810 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 1: And what that does is steal a little bit of 811 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 1: the energy from Jupiter and it gives it to the probe. 812 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,520 Speaker 1: This is an analogy to that, but it's more powerful 813 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,759 Speaker 1: because the ergosphere has a lot of energy in it, 814 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,640 Speaker 1: So it's like a supercharged version of this gravitational slingshot. 815 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:57,600 Speaker 1: I see. So then the idea is that I sling 816 00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: shot something into a black hole and somehow, actusly it 817 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:02,880 Speaker 1: comes out with more energy than it had when it 818 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:04,759 Speaker 1: went in. Yeah, and it's not a miracle, you know, 819 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: it's physics. The reason it has more energy than when 820 00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,359 Speaker 1: it came in is that it's stealing some of that 821 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,400 Speaker 1: energy from the black hole. The black hole is using 822 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:17,040 Speaker 1: its gravity, it's using the spinning mass to spin space 823 00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,399 Speaker 1: time and you're getting carried along with it. So it's 824 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,600 Speaker 1: gusting up your kinetic energy. It's giving you more velocity. 825 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 1: I see. So The idea would be, like I throw 826 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,759 Speaker 1: a rock at the black hole, it goes through the ergosphere, 827 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,440 Speaker 1: it picks up some spin like it's been some space, 828 00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 1: and then it shoots out the other end, or maybe 829 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,239 Speaker 1: it comes back around towards me. So now I have 830 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 1: the same rock that I threw in, but now it's spinning, 831 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 1: which has some extra energy to it. Not quite. You 832 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,000 Speaker 1: throw a rock near a black hole into the ergosphere, 833 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 1: it wouldn't necessarily just come out right. So that comes 834 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,240 Speaker 1: that close to a black hole is very likely eventually 835 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: going to fall into the black hole. So if you 836 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,200 Speaker 1: throw it that close to a black hole, it's probably doomed. 837 00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,680 Speaker 1: It's technically possible for it to escape, but it's probably doomed, 838 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,560 Speaker 1: but it will pick up a bunch more energy before 839 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,800 Speaker 1: it falls into the black hole because spacetime is dragging 840 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 1: it is pulling on it. Now, in order to get 841 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,640 Speaker 1: it out of the ergosphere, you're gonna have to either 842 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,239 Speaker 1: burn some fuel on your rocket or split that rock 843 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,680 Speaker 1: in half so that part of it falls into the 844 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:16,560 Speaker 1: center of the black hole and part of it gets 845 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 1: a push out of the ergosphere. But you're saying, then 846 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,719 Speaker 1: what comes back is only half a rock. Yes, you 847 00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,360 Speaker 1: get half a rock back, but it has more energy 848 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:25,799 Speaker 1: than the rock you threw in. What do you mean, 849 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,440 Speaker 1: like it's coming at me faster than the one I like, 850 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 1: I drop it in, but it comes at me with 851 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,759 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of velocity. Yeah, exactly. And so you 852 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,120 Speaker 1: throw the rock in and you get a smaller rock out, 853 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 1: but has overall more kinetic energy than the rock you 854 00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,320 Speaker 1: threw in. Oh, I see. So it's like I'm feeding 855 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 1: the black hole and in exchange, I'm getting shot at 856 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,520 Speaker 1: by little rocks. Yes, but it's not an even exchange, right. 857 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,320 Speaker 1: The black hole is getting some mass because it gets 858 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,440 Speaker 1: part of your rock, but it's giving you more energy 859 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 1: than you're giving it. So you're extracting energy from the 860 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,880 Speaker 1: black hole. Wait what so the black hole loses in 861 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,360 Speaker 1: this little scheme of your The black hole slows down 862 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,000 Speaker 1: a tiny bit. If you do this, you're essentially stealing 863 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 1: some of the energy from the black hole spin, which 864 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:14,399 Speaker 1: effectively slows it down a tiny bit, the same way 865 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,640 Speaker 1: hawking radiation shrinks the size of a black hole by 866 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,040 Speaker 1: stealing some of its energy, giving a little boost to 867 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,640 Speaker 1: a particle. This steals some of the energy of the 868 00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:27,719 Speaker 1: black hole spin and slows down its spin. So does 869 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 1: that mean that then you're sort of killing the black 870 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,280 Speaker 1: hole a little bit. You're slowing down the black hole 871 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,760 Speaker 1: stealing some of its energy, and so you can steal 872 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,799 Speaker 1: some like almost thirty percent of the energy of the 873 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,120 Speaker 1: black hole can be stored in its spin. So yeah, 874 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:43,840 Speaker 1: you can steal that much energy from a black hole 875 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,440 Speaker 1: using this idea. Oh I see, but you wouldn't kill 876 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,720 Speaker 1: the black hole because the only thing you can steal 877 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:50,920 Speaker 1: is a spin of it. You can't steal the actual 878 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,880 Speaker 1: black hole in the middle. Yeah, but remember that mass 879 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,400 Speaker 1: is just a reflection of energy that's stored inside, and 880 00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,480 Speaker 1: so the spin of the black hole contributes to its mass. Right, 881 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,880 Speaker 1: a black hole that's spinning is more massive than a 882 00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,200 Speaker 1: black hole with the same stuff in it that's not 883 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:11,240 Speaker 1: spinning because the whole gravitational energy reflects all the internal energy, 884 00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,960 Speaker 1: even spin. So you are stealing some of its mass. 885 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,200 Speaker 1: You're right, But I guess what I mean is that 886 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:18,600 Speaker 1: you can steal energy from it. But at some point 887 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,040 Speaker 1: the black hole is gonna stop spinning. It's going to 888 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,680 Speaker 1: be game over for your little energy sucker. That's right, 889 00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,360 Speaker 1: you'll suck all the rotational energy out of this giant 890 00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,040 Speaker 1: cosmic battery, and then all you'll be left with is 891 00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,239 Speaker 1: a short child black hole. You'll shrink the ergosphere gradually 892 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,640 Speaker 1: down to the event horizon, and it will disappear because 893 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,040 Speaker 1: short child black holes, normal ones that don't spin, don't 894 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,360 Speaker 1: have an ergosphere. Right, But it will be a bigger 895 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,840 Speaker 1: black hole, short child black hole, because you fed it 896 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 1: all these little rocks. That's true, but you've stolen more 897 00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:51,080 Speaker 1: energy than you've given so net it'll lose energy and 898 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,759 Speaker 1: therefore lose mass, but you lose a bunch of rocks 899 00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,040 Speaker 1: of rock exactly. And you might remember this actually is 900 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,719 Speaker 1: a plot point in my favorite movie Interstellar. There's some 901 00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,200 Speaker 1: moment when they realize they don't have enough fuel to 902 00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,520 Speaker 1: get where they're going, and so they do a black 903 00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:11,480 Speaker 1: hole gravitational slingshot where they dive into the ergosphere and 904 00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,560 Speaker 1: take advantage of the penrose process. Wow, and then what 905 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,040 Speaker 1: did they sacrifice? They burned a bunch of fuel, right, 906 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,800 Speaker 1: And it's effectively the same thing. If you use fuel, 907 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,560 Speaker 1: you're giving yourself a momentum kick, and you're kicking something 908 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,359 Speaker 1: else out the other end. Interesting, all right, So then 909 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,919 Speaker 1: we could potentially get energy from this ergosphere, but you 910 00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,000 Speaker 1: got to shoot a lot of rocks. Is there more 911 00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,680 Speaker 1: sort of like practical scenario or some sort of like 912 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,120 Speaker 1: device that would do this automatically. You could do this 913 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,480 Speaker 1: also with photons, right, You can drop photons into the 914 00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:42,839 Speaker 1: ergosphere and they would come out with more energy than 915 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,239 Speaker 1: they went in. They wouldn't be going faster, but it 916 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,680 Speaker 1: would change their frequency. And so if you build some 917 00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,799 Speaker 1: device that like dropped photons into the ergosphere and they 918 00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,720 Speaker 1: came out, and you could basically be harrasting the energy 919 00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,520 Speaker 1: of the black hole by increasing the power of your light. 920 00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:00,720 Speaker 1: All right, So then the scheme would be to gather 921 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:02,840 Speaker 1: a bunch of rocks, throw them at a black hole, 922 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,239 Speaker 1: and then have something that trends when when they come 923 00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:10,040 Speaker 1: back faster at us, we somehow harness that energy. If 924 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:12,520 Speaker 1: you did this, for example, to the black hole at 925 00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,920 Speaker 1: the center of our Milky Way, Sagittarius a star, you 926 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:20,120 Speaker 1: could steal as much energy as all the stars in 927 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,840 Speaker 1: the Milky Way are putting out in a billion years. 928 00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,640 Speaker 1: So we're talking about like vast cosmic amounts of energy. 929 00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,680 Speaker 1: It would just really dwarf you all of human energy production. Right, 930 00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,160 Speaker 1: because I think what you mean is that the black 931 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:36,200 Speaker 1: hole at the center of our galaxy has all that 932 00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:39,280 Speaker 1: energy stored in its spin. It has as much energy 933 00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,920 Speaker 1: in its spin as the light that the Milky Way 934 00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,400 Speaker 1: emits in a billion years. Yeah, there's a huge amount 935 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:46,879 Speaker 1: of energy stored in the spin of the black hole 936 00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,960 Speaker 1: at the center of the galaxy. So that could potentially 937 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:55,000 Speaker 1: be stolen from us by some rocky scheme. Exactly. Maybe 938 00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:58,560 Speaker 1: aliens are building pasta makers right next to the center 939 00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:00,799 Speaker 1: of the galaxy. Yeah, thats right. Does it work with 940 00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:02,920 Speaker 1: orzo pasta too, Like if I throw a bunch of 941 00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,520 Speaker 1: little or zo collets, do they come out? You know? 942 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,400 Speaker 1: Like like Linquini on the other side, I suppose, So 943 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,120 Speaker 1: you know, for me, the question is is it theoretically 944 00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,560 Speaker 1: possible to get energy out of a black hole? Once 945 00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,120 Speaker 1: the answer is yes, the rest is up to the engineers. 946 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:19,919 Speaker 1: But I guess you know, to do this, you would 947 00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:21,640 Speaker 1: need a lot of rocks, right, you would need a 948 00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,920 Speaker 1: lot of You would need to build like giant rockets 949 00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,520 Speaker 1: or something, or giant spaceships or giant like black hole 950 00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:32,160 Speaker 1: the harvester devices or vehicles that you throw in and 951 00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,800 Speaker 1: then they that know when to start coming out to 952 00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,800 Speaker 1: on the other side, and that's your job. I guess 953 00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,960 Speaker 1: to say, thanks for telling us that, but you're not 954 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,560 Speaker 1: telling us how to make it work. And our time 955 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:49,560 Speaker 1: is up. Thank you very much, Good luck. I'm gonna 956 00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:53,680 Speaker 1: go make some homemade pasta lunch. No, but seriously, like, 957 00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:56,080 Speaker 1: how practical is this idea? Right? Like you would need 958 00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,040 Speaker 1: to come up with like some kind of spaceship that 959 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:02,879 Speaker 1: you throw into the black hole that then what then 960 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:07,040 Speaker 1: separates and then boost its way out and then you 961 00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:09,000 Speaker 1: catch it on the other side. Yeah, so you need 962 00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,120 Speaker 1: to develop some system, you know, where you have like 963 00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:14,360 Speaker 1: explosive elements in rocks or rocks that split in half, 964 00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,680 Speaker 1: or you know, somehow devise a way to do it 965 00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,920 Speaker 1: with particle beams. But you know, in principle it is possible, 966 00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:25,920 Speaker 1: all right. And so this idea is interesting because kind 967 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,320 Speaker 1: of where things are headed in the universe. We're heading 968 00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,080 Speaker 1: towards sort of like an all black hole universe, right, 969 00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:33,799 Speaker 1: Like eventually all of the black holes in the center 970 00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,359 Speaker 1: of all those galaxies will eventually sort of consume all 971 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:40,200 Speaker 1: of those galaxies, and then they those clusters might also 972 00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:43,439 Speaker 1: kind of crunched down to giant black holes. So We're 973 00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:46,439 Speaker 1: going through a future where everything will be black holes, right, 974 00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:48,520 Speaker 1: and so it might be good to know how to 975 00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:51,080 Speaker 1: get energy out of the sons will continue to burn 976 00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:53,320 Speaker 1: in this universe, and we do know that black holes 977 00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,120 Speaker 1: will live on for billions and trillions of years, and 978 00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:59,359 Speaker 1: so instead of just getting our energy from the nearest star, 979 00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,160 Speaker 1: we might to learn how to get it from the 980 00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,080 Speaker 1: nearest black hole. Right, But even then it's going to 981 00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:06,760 Speaker 1: run out, right, Like, this is not a renewable resource, 982 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:08,799 Speaker 1: is it. Like once you take all the spin out 983 00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,359 Speaker 1: of a black hole, it's kind of maybe useless to us, 984 00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,760 Speaker 1: I suppose, But there are vast quantities of energy stored 985 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,920 Speaker 1: in these black holes, beyond even I think our capacity 986 00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:21,319 Speaker 1: to charge our phones. I don't know. I wouldn't put 987 00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,360 Speaker 1: it past humans to swipe their way into oblivion in 988 00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:28,160 Speaker 1: the in trillions of years. All right, Well, an interesting 989 00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:32,960 Speaker 1: idea and potentially maybe something that could propel humanity into 990 00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,560 Speaker 1: the far far future. And just kind of another lesson 991 00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,120 Speaker 1: about where the universe likes to hide energy, how it 992 00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:41,920 Speaker 1: has all these crazy processes out there that are maybe 993 00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,640 Speaker 1: storing vast amounts of potential energy. And we already know 994 00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,960 Speaker 1: that the universe around us is very, very dense with energy. 995 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,520 Speaker 1: Every atom in your body contains an incredible amount of energy. 996 00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:57,200 Speaker 1: Raisins worth of matter has more energy than a nuclear bomb. 997 00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:59,640 Speaker 1: And so it's just a question of figuring out how 998 00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,120 Speaker 1: to horror was that and how to do it safely? Yeah, 999 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,719 Speaker 1: I think I'll focus on the rhes fear first and 1000 00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,440 Speaker 1: the well, the more posture you eat, the larger the 1001 00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:09,600 Speaker 1: horhes fear gets. But then my head starts to spend 1002 00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:13,400 Speaker 1: and that creates these singularities or at least another jelly 1003 00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,360 Speaker 1: filled donut exactly the banana gularity. All right, well, we 1004 00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,200 Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us, see you 1005 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:29,480 Speaker 1: next time. Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and 1006 00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:32,439 Speaker 1: Jorge Explain the Universe is a production of I Heart 1007 00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,719 Speaker 1: Radio or more podcast for my heart Radio, visit the 1008 00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,520 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 1009 00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,680 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. H