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Speaker 1: I'm TT and I'm Zachiah and from Spotify.

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Speaker 2: This is Dope Labs.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore science,

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Speaker 3: pop culture, and a healthy dose of friendship.

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Speaker 1: This week, we're continuing our new year series with the

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Speaker 1: second part of our sleep episode. In part one, we

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Speaker 1: talked about why sleep is so beneficial for our health.

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Speaker 1: We went through the multiple stages of sleep.

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Speaker 3: Today, our deep dive on sleep continues and we've got

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Speaker 3: a lot to cover, so let's just go ahead and

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Speaker 3: jump into the recitation. Okay, so what do we know? Well,

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Speaker 3: we learned a lot in the last episode. I think

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Speaker 3: there's no denying sleep has major health benefits memory pruning

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Speaker 3: and consolidation. It's good for your immune system, your cells,

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Speaker 3: your muscles. I mean, everybody needs sleep, that's just the

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Speaker 3: gist of it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And quality sleep basically means that you're getting about

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Speaker 1: seven to eight hours a night and going through all

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Speaker 1: the stages, especially delta, so that's deep sleep, and that's

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Speaker 1: where you have those slow brain waves and not getting

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Speaker 1: enough sleep push you at higher risk for all kinds

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Speaker 1: of things like heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, and cancer.

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Speaker 1: But Strangely, the same thing goes for if you're getting

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Speaker 1: too much sleep, like over nine hours, that's also not good.

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Speaker 1: Another thing that we know from part one is that

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Speaker 1: society has a huge sleep debt. People aren't getting enough sleep,

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Speaker 1: and especially so in communities of color. More black and

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Speaker 1: Latin X people than white people report getting less than

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Speaker 1: six hours of sleep regularly.

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Speaker 3: So what do we want to know?

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Speaker 1: So we know that people aren't really getting good quality sleep,

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Speaker 1: but I want to know the reasons why. So what

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Speaker 1: are common sleep disorders and other things that are keeping

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Speaker 1: people from having long sleep and deep sleep?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and if we're seeing this disparity in sleep, what

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Speaker 3: are the psychosocial factors, so our beliefs or how we

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Speaker 3: behave that are associated with it?

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Speaker 1: And then I want to know what are some things

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Speaker 1: we can do to improve our sleep?

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Speaker 3: And you know, on that road to sleep improvement, is

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Speaker 3: it okay to take medication or over the counter of

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Speaker 3: sleep aids.

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Speaker 1: I'm afraid to know the answer. Let's jump into the dissection.

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Speaker 1: Our guest is renowned sleep expert doctor Jiardane Jean Louis,

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Speaker 1: who is currently the director of the brand new Translational

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Speaker 1: Sleep and Circadian Sciences Program at the University of Miami

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Speaker 1: Miller School of Medicine.

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Speaker 3: At the end of Part one, we started discussing these

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Speaker 3: sleep disparities within communities of color. Not only are these

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Speaker 3: communities not getting in enough sleep, they also take longer

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Speaker 3: to fall asleep and they wake up more routinely during

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Speaker 3: the night. And we also know that not getting enough

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Speaker 3: sleep can have some really serious health effects like cardiovascular

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Speaker 3: disease and dementia. So we really wanted to dig into

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Speaker 3: some of the environmental and psychosocial factors that might be

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Speaker 3: associated with poor sleep. Actually, doctor Jean Louis.

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Speaker 1: Is working on a study right now funded by the

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Speaker 1: NIH to examine just that.

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Speaker 4: So what we are looking at now is what are

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Speaker 4: some of those environmental factors that are causing what we

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Speaker 4: call sleep deficiency or poor sleep, or what are some

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Speaker 4: of those socco social factors that are associated with poor sleep.

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Speaker 4: I can't give you a falling so yet because that

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Speaker 4: study is ongoing, but I can tell you what we

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Speaker 4: figur're going to see. We're going to see that in

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Speaker 4: mignaritis communities, we have high level of noise, high level

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Speaker 4: of light pollution, high level of air pollution in the light.

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Speaker 3: Where you live can have a huge effect on your

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Speaker 3: quality of sleep for all of these reasons, noise, air,

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Speaker 3: and light pollution, and even lack of green space.

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Speaker 4: Folks while don't not normally go to the park, they

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Speaker 4: have no access to green space, the steep quality is

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Speaker 4: much lower and the stip diusion is also much lower.

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Speaker 4: So green space, as you may know, is good for

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Speaker 4: both physical healf as much as psychological helf.

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Speaker 1: High levels of light pollution also disturb sleep.

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Speaker 3: But how light can be a good thing, brightening our homes,

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Speaker 3: keeping streets well lit and safe for driving. But like

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Speaker 3: any good thing, there can be too.

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Speaker 1: Much of it. Light pollution is excessive use of artificial light,

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Speaker 1: and that can have adverse effects on your health.

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Speaker 3: If you live near a big city and don't see

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Speaker 3: a lot of stars, that's due to light pollution. If

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Speaker 3: you go out of the city and you're further away

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Speaker 3: from artificial lights, you'll be able to notice the stars more.

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Speaker 3: All the lights in the city, all the lights from buildings, factories,

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Speaker 3: billboard and street lamps, they give this effect called skyglow.

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Speaker 3: It sounds pretty, but it's not good for you.

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Speaker 4: Light pollution is a very important factor. A lot of

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Speaker 4: people don't realize this. Life is very important because light

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Speaker 4: regulates all of our hormonal cycles. So as our eyes

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Speaker 4: are exposed to light on a daily basis, it regulates

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Speaker 4: what we call the square gas. Many nuclears wish in

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Speaker 4: terms regulate melotonin by the temperature corossoal and the light.

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Speaker 4: What we find in for instance, is that we should

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Speaker 4: have a high level of exposure during the day and

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Speaker 4: almost no exposure at night. For some Black forks is

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Speaker 4: the opposite. They get very low light during the day

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Speaker 4: and high level of lights doing the night. Coming from

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Speaker 4: the perspective of a corona biologist, I know what light

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Speaker 4: does to a biology and also what light does in

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Speaker 4: terms of depression anxiety. So when you see that that

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Speaker 4: level pollution is present in our black communities, it's really alarming.

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Speaker 1: And there are other environmental factors that affect sleep too,

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Speaker 1: including noise, traffic, and air pollution.

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Speaker 3: But environmental factors aren't the only things that affect sleep.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Jean Louis explained that psychosocial factors also play a

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Speaker 3: large role in sleep quality.

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Speaker 4: We're also thinking about some of the psycho social factors.

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Speaker 4: There's a paper that came out that showed that if

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Speaker 4: you happen to be asking black and white in terms

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Speaker 4: of insomnia symptoms, and we're looking at perceived racism, you'll

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Speaker 4: see for black folks those which do we port in

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Speaker 4: samia symptoms, many of those were associated with perceived racism.

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Speaker 4: So that tells you they are psychological factors of psycle,

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Speaker 4: social factors as well as environmental factors that are both

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Speaker 4: causing black and band folks to have poor sleep, which

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Speaker 4: in terms, we dispose them to have high ways of

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Speaker 4: cardiovascy disease and high rises of dementia because of what

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Speaker 4: we call poor deathtacity, a poor slow it sleep.

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Speaker 3: But for some people, the reason they aren't getting good

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Speaker 3: quality sleep isn't just environmental or psychosocial. Many people also

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Speaker 3: have sleep disorders.

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Speaker 4: There are eighty eight zero different types of sleep disorders.

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Speaker 4: We have all kinds of sleep disorders.

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Speaker 3: A that's a lot. Eighty I thought it was insomnia,

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Speaker 3: sleep apnea, that's it.

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Speaker 2: That was it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Eighty Then we all got it.

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Speaker 3: We have to Everyone has restless leg syndrome. I have

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Speaker 3: heard of that. Okay, so that's three yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 3: mean I know that on the right scale. I'm just

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Speaker 3: telling you. That's all I know.

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Speaker 1: Okay, okay, let's start with the first one that I

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Speaker 1: think we all know. Insomnia.

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Speaker 4: Sleep quality really simply means if you go to bed

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Speaker 4: for seven hours, how much sleep do you actually get.

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Speaker 4: If you get close to seven hours, you'll have high

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Speaker 4: se quality. If you have five out of seven, that's

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Speaker 4: possely quality. In other words, anytime you're spending less than

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Speaker 4: eighty five percent of your bedtime sleeping, you have post quality.

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Speaker 4: And that's how we diagnose in somnia. By the way,

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Speaker 4: if it's less than eighty five percent, you are at

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Speaker 4: wish for having insomnia.

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Speaker 1: Record scratch, Zakia, you are having insomnia.

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Speaker 3: I like to count when I got in the bed

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Speaker 3: and when I got up. You're telling me that.

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Speaker 1: All those hours rolling from one side of the bed

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Speaker 1: to the other. On Instagram and all the corners of

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Speaker 1: the internet. My friend is in every corner of the Internet.

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Speaker 3: I'm reading everybody's newsletter at two am.

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Speaker 1: That's insomnia.

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Speaker 3: Hmm, I just call it informed.

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Speaker 1: Actually, those are my educational hours, my office hours.

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Speaker 3: Getting my continuing medical credits at that hour.

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Speaker 1: Okay, my friend is trying to get another doctor a degree.

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Speaker 1: But the KIA it sounds like you're not alone because

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Speaker 1: doctor Jean Louis says a lot of folks experience this

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Speaker 1: on some scale.

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Speaker 4: Almost everybody had experiences at one point in their life.

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Speaker 4: Perhaps it's start quatic insomnia. It's short term. I mean

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Speaker 4: it sense that you're anxious about any event that happened

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Speaker 4: in your life. It lasts for a couple of weeks,

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Speaker 4: it goes away, but it doesn't become a chronic problem

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Speaker 4: because most of the time we resolve whatever the issues

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Speaker 4: may be and then we get back to schedule.

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Speaker 3: This short term insomnia is also called acute insomnia and

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Speaker 3: usually passes in a couple of weeks, But for those

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Speaker 3: with chronic insomnia, which can last for months or longer,

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Speaker 3: it can really adversely affect your health and quality of life.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to say exactly what causes chronic insomnia. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: it can be caused by other medical conditions like anxiety

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Speaker 1: or depression, and sometimes insomnia can be the result of

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Speaker 1: side effects from other medication like antidepressants or stimulants. Insomnia

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Speaker 1: is also more common with aging.

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Speaker 3: Insomnia can also be caused by other sleep disorders, like

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Speaker 3: sleep apnia.

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Speaker 4: Sleep openiz is a condition where people go to bed

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Speaker 4: and they just stop breezing. Why is that? Essentially the

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Speaker 4: excep suit on the upper airway puts pressure under thought,

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Speaker 4: which makes it more difficult for them to breathe. Sometimes

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Speaker 4: they stop gaving completely, sometimes they stop breathing partially. So

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Speaker 4: dependent upon how much occlusion you have in the upper

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Speaker 4: airway you hear the person snaw.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Jean Louis compared it to a garden hose. If

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Speaker 1: you're water in your garden and somebody steps on the hose,

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Speaker 1: you'll see that water is barely coming out of the

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Speaker 1: hose or it just stops completely. That's exactly what's happening

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Speaker 1: to the upper airways for someone with sleep avenue.

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Speaker 3: So that foot on the hose is the occlusion all

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Speaker 3: the way down, no air only down a little bit.

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Speaker 3: That water's just trickling out.

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Speaker 4: So essentially you snow because the brain realizes it's not

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Speaker 4: getting enough oxygen, therefore send a signal to you saying

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Speaker 4: that you have to wake up now and make the

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Speaker 4: effort to breathe. So when you hear somebody snaw, what

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Speaker 4: you're hearing is that the most of the upper areay

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Speaker 4: are vibrating. The vibration is what we hear as a

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Speaker 4: snowing episode. Snowing in fact, suggests that you're in deep sleep.

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Speaker 4: Nothing could be further from the truth. Snowing is in

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Speaker 4: fact an education that there's something is wrong.

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Speaker 1: This blew my mind because so he's saying that snoring

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Speaker 1: is your body waking you up because you need oxygen.

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Speaker 1: Your body's like, hey, it's like the rumble strip when

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Speaker 1: you on the highway, wake up, you veering off the road?

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Speaker 3: Yes, the rumble strip oxygen. Yes, Well, they need to

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Speaker 3: stop making those cartoons that are teaching us that the

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Speaker 3: deepest sleep is when you snore and you see disease.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly how I felt. I was like, but in

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Speaker 1: the cartoons, all the cartoon dogs and cats that were

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Speaker 1: in deep sleep or snoring, I feel wid too. I

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Speaker 1: feel tricked.

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Speaker 3: Yes, a little bit of snoring all right, But if

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Speaker 3: you're snoring NonStop every night, that might be a problem.

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Speaker 3: You might need to get that checked out.

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Speaker 1: And doctor John Luis said that for some people with

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Speaker 1: really severe sleep apnea, they might wake up up to

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Speaker 1: three hundred to four hundred times a night.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sleep long enough for three hundred to four

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Speaker 3: hundred times a night. That is wild something wake me

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Speaker 3: up three hundred times in the night.

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Speaker 1: That thing gotta die during eight hours of sleep. That's

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Speaker 1: like every one to two minutes. Oh and based on

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Speaker 1: what we know about the sleep cycle and sleep duration,

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Speaker 1: that is not going to feel good when you wake

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Speaker 1: up in the morning.

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Speaker 3: And it's not just about getting a poor night's sleep.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Jean Luis says if sleep apnea isn't diagnosed or treated,

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Speaker 3: it can lead to a greater risk of heart attack

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Speaker 3: or stroke.

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Speaker 1: The next disorder we're going to talk about is narcolepsy.

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Speaker 4: The third one we talk about would be nocolepsy. You

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Speaker 4: may have heard about this so often. It happens when

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Speaker 4: somebody happens to be in their elite teens early adulthood.

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Speaker 4: Not Colepsy essentially is a very huge problem.

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Speaker 3: Narcolepsy is a chronic neurological disorder where the brain is

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Speaker 3: unable to regulate sleep wake cycles. People with narcolepsy will

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Speaker 3: often feel really drowsy throughout the day, even if they

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Speaker 3: wake up feeling well rested, and they can experience sleep

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Speaker 3: attacks where they just fall asleep instantly. Can you imagine

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Speaker 3: how scary that would be.

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Speaker 1: This is a really serious condition. I know we talked

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Speaker 1: about me loving sleep and being able to fall asleep

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Speaker 1: really easily, but this is another level. This is not

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Speaker 1: the same thing.

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Speaker 3: Now, you do fall asleep really quickly, I do. It's

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Speaker 3: like you press up button.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I could close my eyes just like this.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, m sleep is right around the corner.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you just are treading very closely to the alpha

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Speaker 3: beta line whatever that was, from awake to sleep. I

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Speaker 3: feel like you're always I'm alright.

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Speaker 1: S aright there.

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Speaker 4: Essentially, some of those people experienced what we call ncollectic attack.

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Speaker 4: If you happen to be at a club, you having

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Speaker 4: a good time, you're cracking jokes, if they become emotional

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Speaker 4: to your wows.

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Speaker 1: This triggers that Typically a person enters ram sleep about

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Speaker 1: sixty to ninety minutes into their sleep cycle, but people

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Speaker 1: with narcolepsy enter ram sleep much faster, more like fifteen

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Speaker 1: minutes after falling asleep.

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Speaker 3: And Narcolepsic can be caused by a lot of different things,

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Speaker 3: but one of them is the absence of hypocretan, which

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Speaker 3: is a chemical that promotes wakefulness and regulates rims sleep.

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Speaker 1: There's one more sleep disorder that doctor Jean Luis talked

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Speaker 1: about restless leg syndrome.

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Speaker 4: The fourth one I would talk about is west less

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Speaker 4: leg syndrome. We just a problem that happens most of

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Speaker 4: the time when somebody gets to be older.

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Speaker 3: Restless leg syndrome is exactly what it sounds like, a

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Speaker 3: sleep disorder that causes an irresistible urge to move the legs.

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Speaker 3: Is especially prevalent at night. So that's just for sleep disorders.

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Speaker 1: And doctor Jean Luis said that there's over eighty that's

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Speaker 1: a lot of issues that can prevent a good night's sleep. Insomnia,

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Speaker 1: sleep apnea, and narcolepsy are some of the most common

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Speaker 1: sleep disorders. And when we come back, we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about circadian rhythm, our body's biological clock. We're back

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Speaker 1: and we're in week two of our New Year series.

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Speaker 1: Next week the series continues with a lab on the

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Speaker 1: immune system. We're talking to doctor Piel Gupta, an allergist

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Speaker 1: immunelogists based in New York City who also had some

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Speaker 1: things to say about sleep.

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Speaker 3: So we've talked a lot about things that can cause

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Speaker 3: poor sleep, whether it's environmental or cycle, social factors, or

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Speaker 3: sleep disorders. And later in the show, we're going to

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Speaker 3: talk about actual treatments and tips for getting better sleep,

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Speaker 3: but first we want to zoom out a little bit

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Speaker 3: and talk about the importance of sleep in the context

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Speaker 3: of our body's biological clock. Last week, doctor Jean Louis

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Speaker 3: walked us through the different stages of sleep. During each stage,

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Speaker 3: our brains are producing ways with different frequencies alpha, beta, theta,

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Speaker 3: and delta.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Jean Louis is really talking about our brain activity

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Speaker 1: in the context of a twenty four hour cycle called

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Speaker 1: our circadian rhythm. When we're awake, our brains have certain

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Speaker 1: functions and activities just like when we're asleep.

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Speaker 3: And circadian rhythm is really nature's clock. Plants have it

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Speaker 3: and animals have it. This twenty four hour cycle dictates

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Speaker 3: everything from sleep to wake cycles, to hormone levels, body temperature,

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Speaker 3: and much more so.

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Speaker 1: How does that work exactly? When our eyes are exposed

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Speaker 1: to light, it gives our bodies certain cues.

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Speaker 4: The particular cells in our eyes in the retina that

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Speaker 4: pick up that signal, they call them the retinal ganglion cells.

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Speaker 4: So if you're thinking about what the eyes are actually doing,

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Speaker 4: they do two things really. One is that they form

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Speaker 4: an image of the environment, and that goes to the

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Speaker 4: back of the head, the cortical cortext where we begin

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Speaker 4: to appreciate that we are looking at a car, we

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Speaker 4: are looking at a house, and the light. Light does

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Speaker 4: something else. It regulates what we call the super chaves

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Speaker 4: body nuclears. There is signally sent to the pioneer gland

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Speaker 4: that secretes melotona. Melotoni is the best marker of the

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Speaker 4: health of our circadian clock or the twenty four cycle.

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Speaker 3: So really our circadian rhythm controls our lives. That light

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Speaker 3: that doctor Jean Louis is talking about that causes the

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Speaker 3: pineal gland to secrete melatonin also regulates our hormone levels.

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Speaker 3: So without light dictating our circadian rhythm will be all

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Speaker 3: over the place.

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Speaker 1: This also means that when we're not absorbing enough light

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Speaker 1: at the right time, our circadian rhythm and as a result,

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Speaker 1: our health can be compromised.

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Speaker 4: So we can imagine what's going to happen is that

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Speaker 4: as we get older, some of these cells in our

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Speaker 4: eyes begin to degenerate, begin to die. For instance, if

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Speaker 4: you ask me about why do we have to get

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Speaker 4: a dysfunction among blacks mostly than white, it may be

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Speaker 4: because the weight of glaucoma is much higher in among blacks.

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Speaker 3: Glacoma occurs when there is increased pressure in the eye

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Speaker 3: that keeps you from being able to see properly. So

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Speaker 3: if you have high blood pressure, you're more likely to

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Speaker 3: have glaucoma.

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Speaker 1: And that makes me think about nocturnal hypertension, which we

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Speaker 1: talked about earlier. Our blood pressure is supposed to drop

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Speaker 1: during sleep if you're not getting enough sleep or getting

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Speaker 1: good quality sleep, So getting into that delta area, your

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Speaker 1: blood pressure is going to stay high, and that's nocturnal hypertension.

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Speaker 4: So if you have glackoma, the cells that are supposed

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Speaker 4: to picking up the signal from the light begin to degenerate.

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Speaker 4: Therefore you're not able to synchronize your SCN as well

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Speaker 4: as your would which when you can't synchronize, believe of melaltnin.

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Speaker 4: So that's one of the reasons why you see all

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Speaker 4: of those sleep problems among black box simply because we

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Speaker 4: tend to develop black coma and a much higher with

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Speaker 4: COMPA in all the groups. So that's the mechanism really

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Speaker 4: by which light has an influence on the biology.

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Speaker 3: And sometimes a deficiency in light comes from external factors.

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Speaker 3: Like there's just not enough of it. During the winter months,

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Speaker 3: as the days become shorter and the sun sets earlier

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Speaker 3: and earlier, it can affect our circadian rhythm. The sun

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Speaker 3: is retiring at three pm.

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Speaker 4: Okay, therefore we're not suppressing melaton as we should. If

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Speaker 4: we have excess amount of metal tonin in the system,

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Speaker 4: especially if you happen to be a female, then you

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Speaker 4: might experience some level of side.

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Speaker 1: SAD is seasonal effective disorder, and it's a type of

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Speaker 1: depression that happens during a specific time of year, usually

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Speaker 1: the winter.

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Speaker 4: It's a spectrum. Some people feel a little bit down,

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Speaker 4: a little bit moody, a little bit aggravated. All the

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Speaker 4: people are just completely aggravated.

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Speaker 3: It can't function and at that point, you know, And

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Speaker 3: we talked about this a little bit in Lab seventeen

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Speaker 3: fall back when we talked about daylight savings time.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 3: Is it saving time or saving time? I got to

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Speaker 3: go back to that lab.

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Speaker 1: It's saving no, no ass. And so I've actually heard

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Speaker 1: of people buying lamps that are supposed to mimic on

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Speaker 1: light to help combat ZAD. So I'm curious about how

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Speaker 1: that works.

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Speaker 4: Light therapy does in fact help and to some degree

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Speaker 4: exagernous melotony. Melotony you're taking to have regulate your cirkainin profile.

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Speaker 4: You can buy a light box and put it on

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Speaker 4: the top of your desk and get about thirty minutes

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Speaker 4: every morning. It would have regulate your circainity rhythm much better.

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Speaker 3: But if you're thinking about light therapy, remember not all

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Speaker 3: light is created equal, not all light exposure is good.

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Speaker 4: There's some indication that there's a particular gene in our

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Speaker 4: eyes what you call pur jeans and cryptochom crypto cooms

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Speaker 4: a preferentially respond to blue light. And what do we

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Speaker 4: know about the tablets and the cell points what kind

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Speaker 4: of light do they emit?

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Speaker 1: Blue?

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Speaker 4: So if you are instead of dulling the minds, so

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Speaker 4: to speak, instead of soothing the brain, so to speak,

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Speaker 4: you're exciting the mind. You're exciting the brain. You realize

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Speaker 4: instead of taking you about fifteen to two minutes fall sleep,

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Speaker 4: it's taking you about an hour. So similarly we used

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Speaker 4: to tell people before tablets, do not have a TV

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Speaker 4: in your bedroom because it's going to excite the brain.

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Speaker 4: You don't want to arouse yourself, you want to soothe

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Speaker 4: the brain.

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Speaker 3: I feel like there are so many things that can

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Speaker 3: keep us from getting a good night sleep, So let's

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Speaker 3: talk about what can actually help. What options do people

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Speaker 3: have to improve their sleep.

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Speaker 1: I've heard things like taking melatonin, but are there other

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Speaker 1: options when it comes to medication and are they effective

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Speaker 1: and safe?

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Speaker 4: People take sleep aids mostly because of insomnia. If you're

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Speaker 4: taking sleeping pills under the guide of our physician who

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Speaker 4: knows what he or she is doing, that's fine. You

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Speaker 4: could take some medication for a couple of weeks, that's

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Speaker 4: perfectly fine. But in the long run, where we see

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Speaker 4: is that you build so much toxicity. Sleep medications can

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Speaker 4: in fact destroy your liver and eventually it will kill you.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Jean Louis also said that sleep aid should not

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Speaker 1: be used if you have sleep apnea, which we talked

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Speaker 1: about earlier on in this episode. With sleep apnea, you

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Speaker 1: already have a problem with your airways staying open enough

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Speaker 1: to be able to get oxygen for you to breathe.

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Speaker 1: When you take sleep sedatives, this can further reduce your

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Speaker 1: muscle tone.

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Speaker 4: Which means it's even more difficult for you to breathe.

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Speaker 4: So if you have sleep atm here, you're taking sleeping pills,

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Speaker 4: you can actually kill yourself, so you have to be

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Speaker 4: very careful about this.

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Speaker 3: Well that's out for me. What about melatonin?

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Speaker 4: You could do over the countermeletonic. Unfortunately not all of

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Speaker 4: them are good. You really want to talk to somebody

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Speaker 4: who knows about this, or ask the farmacist very specific

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Speaker 4: question about this. Has it been tested? Has there been

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Speaker 4: the trial done on this? If the answer to those

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Speaker 4: question is no, don't do it.

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Speaker 1: So the bottom line is you need to talk to

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Speaker 1: your doctor. We're not giving you medical advice. And so

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Speaker 1: what if you don't want to take any medication, whether

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Speaker 1: it's prescribed or over the counter, Are there any alternatives?

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Speaker 4: There is this methodology or method or poetry called cognitive

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Speaker 4: behavior therapy for insomnia that I like. There are no

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Speaker 4: negative side effects at all. A lot of people don't

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Speaker 4: want to do it, the behavioral stuff, the cognitive stuff,

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Speaker 4: because it takes a little longer. If you go to

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Speaker 4: do CBTI, it's gonna take you back two to four

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Speaker 4: weeks to begin to feel all massive is improving, Whereas

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Speaker 4: if you take some medication tonight, you're gonna get the

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Speaker 4: benefit wide away. So we need behavior therapy cognitib of

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Speaker 4: therapy seems to be working very successfully and there's a

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Speaker 4: lot of evidence to support its use no side effects.

441
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 3: Aside from medical and pharmaceutical help, there are definitely other

442
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 3: things we can easily do at home to improve our sleep.

443
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,400
Speaker 3: Some things could be to improve of our environmental factors,

444
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:06,880
Speaker 3: so maybe blackout curtains or a noise machine, limiting screens

445
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 3: in the bedroom.

446
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 1: Meditation and breathing exercises are also really great for helping

447
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 1: you get to sleep.

448
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 3: I definitely use a white noise machine, and I listen

449
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 3: to playlists on Spotify. There's a podcast that's White Noise

450
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 3: and it runs eight hours.

451
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 1: I do similar things. I have blackout curtains in my room.

452
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:30,439
Speaker 1: Sometimes I listen to the Peaceful Piano playlist on Spotify,

453
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: or I'll listen to this podcast called Sleep with Me

454
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: that is hosted by this man who I don't know

455
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 1: his name because I always fall asleep in the middle

456
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 1: of everything he's saying.

457
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 3: He's talking.

458
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,199
Speaker 1: I don't know how he does it. He's talking, but

459
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 1: it will put you to sleep.

460
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 3: Audible had something like that, and I used it during

461
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 3: the early stages of the pandemic because I don't know

462
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,400
Speaker 3: if you remember, but your girl was up okay, and

463
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 3: there's somebody like reading these books? Did he have one?

464
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 3: I didn't fall asleep to Diddy, But there are a

465
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 3: bunch of different people just reading different things, and they

466
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 3: were reading stories that really went nowhere, So you fall asleep.

467
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's the same tactic with the guy

468
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 1: on the Sleep with Me podcast where I think he's

469
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: just rambling, but I can't make it ten minutes and

470
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 1: I am gone.

471
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 3: Well, Keisha, who's our mutual friend, put me on to

472
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 3: some sleep meditations, which are like breathing exercises you can do,

473
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 3: and I found those to be really effective.

474
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: Send those to me.

475
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 4: This is a very good point. Breathing exercises, if you

476
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 4: do that the right way, meditation, if you have the

477
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 4: patience to do that, these are the actual best treatment

478
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 4: for insamia, in fact, for anxiety, for depression. But again,

479
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 4: we happen to be living in a world or society

480
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 4: where people want to quick fix. You may not have

481
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 4: to learn how to meditate. That might tip me six months. No,

482
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 4: I don't have the time for this. You may not

483
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 4: have to do breathing exercises every morning every night. Can

484
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 4: I just take a pill. The pills will help you

485
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 4: for a couple of weeks and then little on didn't

486
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 4: work anymore. But if you learn how to bend too,

487
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 4: why if you do your breathing exercises, that's long term

488
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 4: benefits down the world.

489
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 3: I think considering last week's lab and this lab, it

490
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 3: just really shows you how complex sleep is. That's just

491
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 3: sleep on its own, you know. Eighty disorder still blew

492
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 3: my mind. I don't know about you.

493
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: Over eighty over eighty Yeah, And I think that one

494
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: of the things that is a big takeaway for me

495
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 1: from this two part series is that no two people

496
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: are sleeping the same, but we all have the same

497
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: goal of trying to get into deep sleep, and so

498
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 1: we really all need to be making that a priority

499
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 1: for ourselves, which is why I think it's really great

500
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: that we have it a part of our New Year series,

501
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,919
Speaker 1: because this should be something that's important to everybody, because,

502
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: like we said in part one, sleep is a crucial

503
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: part of your overall health. So if you're thinking new

504
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: year and new me, you need to also be applying

505
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: that to how you're sleeping.

506
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 3: New Year, more sleep, And another part of this that

507
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 3: I just still can't really grasp the weight of is

508
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 3: how much of your sleep affects your entire life and

509
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 3: how much of it you can't really control. It depends

510
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 3: on where you're born. Are you born in an area

511
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 3: with a lot of light pollution. Are you born in

512
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 3: an area with a lot of noise? Are you living

513
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 3: in an area with high air pollution? You know, so

514
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 3: you don't have access to green space where plants are

515
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 3: taking that carbon dioxide and turning it into oxygen. Is

516
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 3: that happening? Are there enough trees around you for that?

517
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 4: So what we are doing really is we go into

518
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 4: the barbershop, the beauty salons, and the churches where we

519
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 4: actually engage people directly. So we talked to them about

520
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 4: what sleep really is. So we have to make decision

521
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 4: about how to improve their sleep health. So on occasion

522
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:57,439
Speaker 4: somebody who said, you know what, I can only do

523
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 4: seven hours? I think I need more. Then you be

524
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 4: into oscar. How long does they get fall asleep? Well

525
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 4: it takes me about an hour? Whoah, about an Now

526
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 4: that's just too long. What's happening? Well, I'm thinking about

527
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 4: the bills, I'm worried about the kids, I'm worried about

528
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 4: the environment, the neighborhood. Well, you see, zip code almost

529
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 4: is destiny. If it happened to be in an environment

530
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 4: where they're not worried about the environment so much, they'll

531
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 4: probably have more time to sleep while they are in bed.

532
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 3: Okay, And so then you know, when you consider all

533
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 3: of these pieces, we layer on these other factors that

534
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 3: are remnants of our society. Right, So, who's in these

535
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 3: areas where that's most likely to overlap, who's working jobs

536
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 3: that don't allow them to have sleep at night when

537
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 3: it's actually dark outside? And what does that mean for

538
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 3: your overall health? And so folks who are not getting

539
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 3: a lot of sleep are probably experiencing way more health

540
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 3: burdens right related to not having sleep. And then what

541
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 3: does that mean for your ability to, like you said,

542
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 3: reach the new year, new me? It just feels like

543
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 3: this snowball effect. So something we've been doing in semester

544
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 3: for is sharing our one thing. It could be something

545
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 3: we've seen, something we experience that we really like and

546
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:17,880
Speaker 3: we want to share.

547
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: With you guys, so Zakia, what's your one thing?

548
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 3: My one thing this week is a paper in behavioral

549
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 3: brain research and it's from a group at Bengarian University.

550
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 3: In Israel and they put a goldfish in a tank

551
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 3: and it has a tracking system that allows the goldfish,

552
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 3: based on where it moves in the tank, to explore

553
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 3: regular terrain and they see that the goldfish can navigate

554
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 3: towards different goalposter, you know, like different colored paper that

555
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 3: they put up is really cool. There's a video and

556
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 3: the title of the paper was from Fish out of

557
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 3: Water to Insights on Navigation Mechanisms and Animals. It feels

558
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 3: very futurama, but I think it's really cool. I'll make

559
00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 3: sure to share a link to it in the show notes.

560
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: No One thing this week is not really a thing,

561
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,959
Speaker 1: but it's an idea. You know, twenty twenty two started

562
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: and everybody was really excited to be completely done with

563
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one and hoping, you know, we're turning a corner.

564
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: And there's been some new variants that come out with coronavirus,

565
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: and it's so discouraging and deflating because a lot of

566
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: us have been working really hard to stay safe and

567
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: social distance as much as we can, but still trying

568
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: to get our lives back. And as we see more

569
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: and more lockdowns coming into place, I've seen a lot

570
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: of people feeling disheartened with the state of things, and

571
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: so my one thing this week is you checking in

572
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: with yourself and just making sure that you're doing okay

573
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: with everything that's going on in the news. Taking time

574
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: for yourself to focus on self care and maybe, you know,

575
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: maybe that means not being on Instagram or not being

576
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: on Twitter and doing something that kind of can help

577
00:29:51,120 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: you take your mind off of things.

578
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 3: That's it for Lab forty six and part two of

579
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 3: our sleep series. I am so ready to start practicing

580
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 3: some better sleep habits tonight. Call us at two zero

581
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 3: two five six seven seven zero two eight and tell

582
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 3: us what you thought about this lab, or give us

583
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 3: an idea for a lab we could do later in

584
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 3: the semester. We like hearing from you. That's two zero

585
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 3: two five six seven seven zero two eight.

586
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: And don't forget there's so much more for you to

587
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: dig into on our website. There'll be a cheat sheet

588
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: for today's lab, additional links and resources in the show notes.

589
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: Plus you can sign up for our newsletter check it

590
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: out at dope blastpodcast dot com. Special thanks to today's

591
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: guest expert doctors jar Don Jean Louis.

592
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 3: You can find him on Twitter at g Jean Louis.

593
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: One our credits this week are being read by one

594
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: of our longtime listeners and now friend, Emery Price.

595
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 3: Dope Labs is a Spotify original production from MEGAO Media Group.

596
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 3: Producers are Jenny rattlet Mast and Lydia Smith of Way

597
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 3: Runner Studios. Editing and sound designed by Rob Smerciak, Mixing

598
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 3: by Hannis Brown. Original music composed and produced by Taka

599
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 3: Yasuzawa and Alex Sugira from Spotify. Executive producer Gina Delback

600
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 3: and creative producer Candice Manriquez Wren. Special thanks to Shirley Ramos,

601
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 3: yasmin A, Fifi Kamulolia, Till Kracki, and Brian Marquis. Executive

602
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 3: producers from Mega oh Media Group are My Internet Vessies, T. T.

603
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 3: Shodia and Zakiah Watman