Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing.
Speaker 1: It's awards season and we're re listening to some of
Speaker 1: our interviews with Oscar winners. Here's Spike Lee. He won
Speaker 1: his first competitive Oscar last year for the screenplay of
Speaker 1: Black Klansmen. This was thirty years after Do the Right Thing. Everybody,
Speaker 1: welcome Alec Baldwin and Spike Lee. I've been trying to
Speaker 1: get Spike Lee on this program for a long time.
Speaker 1: Finally we made it happen in front of a live
Speaker 1: audience at this year's Trebeca Film Festival. The deal was
Speaker 1: we would each engage the other in a discussion about
Speaker 1: one of our favorite movies of all time. Just listing
Speaker 1: Spike Lee's films should be enough to establish his place
Speaker 1: as one of the deans of American movie making. Do
Speaker 1: the Right Thing, Malcolm X, Jungle Fever, She's gotta of It.
Speaker 1: They defined what it means to be black in America
Speaker 1: and help Spike smash through Hollywood's racial glass ceiling. And
Speaker 1: he's still at it with this year's festival favorite, Black Klansmen,
Speaker 1: in which I make an appearance alongside stars John David
Speaker 1: Washington and Adam Driver and now our conversation at Spring
Speaker 1: Studios in New York as part of the Rebeca Film Festival.
Speaker 1: We didn't rehearse any of this. First of all, let
Speaker 1: me just explain to you what a pain in the
Speaker 1: acid is. To get him on the phone. It is
Speaker 1: so painful. Pull him and text him and text him
Speaker 1: really sunny. He calls me back like six music. What's up?
Speaker 1: If I see a number on my phone, I don't
Speaker 1: know the number, I don't pick up and he has
Speaker 1: four numbers. Tell me. I mean what I want to
Speaker 1: know first is because I think this is helps you know,
Speaker 1: these kinds of origins help us understand this kind of
Speaker 1: film appreciation. What was movie going in your life when
Speaker 1: you were young, when you were a child, tell us
Speaker 1: where you grew up, what kind of household you grew
Speaker 1: up in, and what was the whole TV movie dynamic
Speaker 1: in terms of your consumption of that kind of stuff
Speaker 1: when you were a child. I even I never knew
Speaker 1: that you could even make a film growing up. I
Speaker 1: grew up in the Republic of Brooklyn. We were the
Speaker 1: first black family to move into cobble Hill, which is
Speaker 1: a predominant town in American Navy because cobbles right by
Speaker 1: the docks, and the docks were Italian American, and uh,
Speaker 1: we got called nigga a couple of times first week.
Speaker 1: But once my friends sold them, weren't a hundred of
Speaker 1: other black families moved in behind me. Then we were
Speaker 1: just cool after that. So none after that, and then
Speaker 1: we my mother decide we gotta stop paying rents, so
Speaker 1: we bought a brown still a fourth Green, for forty
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars. They go for four million. Now what
Speaker 1: year was up? Sixty eight? My father grew up in
Speaker 1: four Queen on St. James's Place in Fulton's So I
Speaker 1: remember you now you're a pain in the ask then too,
Speaker 1: I couldn't get you on the phone back in sixty
Speaker 1: eight either you were in four Green and sixty eight
Speaker 1: because white flight had happened by then, people will move
Speaker 1: to Long Island. But what's the first movie you saw
Speaker 1: on the big screen? The first movie I can remember,
Speaker 1: my mother took me to see really quick. My father
Speaker 1: hated movies, but he loves sports. I got my love
Speaker 1: of sports from my father. My mother loves movies, but
Speaker 1: my since my father hated movies, I was my mother's
Speaker 1: movie date. The first film I can remember my mother
Speaker 1: took my late mother take me to. She took me
Speaker 1: for Eastern Sunday raistic musical. So Bye Bye Birdie. And
Speaker 1: here's the thing though, that film impact me so much
Speaker 1: I even know it. The opening credit sequence will do
Speaker 1: the right thing, Rosie pres dancing. That came from Bye
Speaker 1: Bye Birdie and Margaret. That's where it came from. And
Speaker 1: I mustn't. I must have been like seven eight years old,
Speaker 1: but it just came out of nowhere? Did I mean?
Speaker 1: This is a cliche, I guess, But did that do
Speaker 1: something to you the first time you saw a movie
Speaker 1: on a big screen? Did you sit there and go yeah?
Speaker 1: But I didn't want them. It's not like at that moment,
Speaker 1: but it was not who who? Who makes a movie?
Speaker 1: So growing up, I wanted to play a second base
Speaker 1: for New York Mets, but genetics conspired against that happening.
Speaker 1: That's where I changed over to the Yankees. But anyway,
Speaker 1: I want to to be a porn star, but against
Speaker 1: that too, So I'm I grew up wanted to be
Speaker 1: a filmmaker. But I remember my mother taking me to
Speaker 1: see uh Main Streets when Bunny and Clyde came out.
Speaker 1: I said, can I go? She said, I'm not taking you.
Speaker 1: I went to see Buying Clyde. I had nightmares for
Speaker 1: two weeks because I mean, up to that point there
Speaker 1: was never violent shown like that, and that that shook
Speaker 1: me for two weeks was groundbreaking the Penn. But the
Speaker 1: reason why I chose On the Ward from besides is
Speaker 1: one of the greatest films ever, is because I became
Speaker 1: very friendly with Bud Schilberg, the great Great Bud Show.
Speaker 1: I called him up. You know, back then, you called
Speaker 1: people up. I called Stanly Dining up, Colcazan up. You
Speaker 1: get people on the phone. People don't realize how much
Speaker 1: that happens in this business. And you know, I was
Speaker 1: a young filmmaker, so you know. And and in fact,
Speaker 1: I called Billy Waller up. He said, come on over.
Speaker 1: And Craig and I had anything my go at people.
Speaker 1: I got my posters too, So I got my postes,
Speaker 1: you know, just the the sign but both But But
Speaker 1: and I we worked on the script together, and but
Speaker 1: lived to be ninety four or five. But when he
Speaker 1: was ninety we wrote a script together called Say's Joe
Speaker 1: Lewis about this relationship. Between Joe Louis and Max Schmollen
Speaker 1: and his in In the last two years of life.
Speaker 1: He would call me every week and say, Spike, did
Speaker 1: you get the money yet? Did you get the money yet?
Speaker 1: Because I had promised him that I was gonna make
Speaker 1: this film before we passed. I'm gonna make that promise happen.
Speaker 1: But we just couldn't get together up. But it's amazing
Speaker 1: as an epic has Hitler Girl Rules f dr on
Speaker 1: the Roosevelt, lenel Horn, Joe Louis, Max s mellon Shore,
Speaker 1: the Ray Robinson. I mean, it's it's uh, let me
Speaker 1: get it done one day. You know. I'm missing now
Speaker 1: when you when you talk about it in the same
Speaker 1: as in my life where I would watch movies and
Speaker 1: I thought that movie stars were harvested on another planet
Speaker 1: and they flew them down here or something, you know.
Speaker 1: I I the idea that myself or anybody like me
Speaker 1: could get into the movie business was just absurd, you
Speaker 1: know to me. And when did that change for you?
Speaker 1: Meaning when did moviemaking become a direction that you wanted
Speaker 1: to set sailing? Oh? When I went to college and
Speaker 1: went to Morouse College in Atlanta, Georgia and my first
Speaker 1: two years the house. My first two years, I was
Speaker 1: the C plus D minor student. What was your major?
Speaker 1: I didn't have a major at that point, and so
Speaker 1: before second semester ended, the ended. In my souphomayen, it's
Speaker 1: trying to go back to New York. But if some
Speaker 1: of my advisor told him we had to choose a
Speaker 1: major when I come back in the fall, And I
Speaker 1: said why and my advisors said, because you have exhausted
Speaker 1: all your electives. So I came back to New York
Speaker 1: and it was a summer ninth. There was an infamous
Speaker 1: summer nineteen seventy seven. The Yankees won the World Series.
Speaker 1: The first summer disco heat was horrible. Therefore you had
Speaker 1: the blackout and you had David Berker. It's not the
Speaker 1: stand so it's amazing. Many minutes later I wrote the
Speaker 1: Corona Script with the Michael Creole and Victor Clochio called
Speaker 1: the Summer sam But anyway, New York City was broke
Speaker 1: that summer. There's a famous Daily News front page forward
Speaker 1: to New York dropped dead. There you go. You up
Speaker 1: to that point, if you had your workers permit, you
Speaker 1: get the job doing something. But there were no jobs
Speaker 1: in New York City and I and I didn't want
Speaker 1: to spend the whole summer playing strata matic baseball on
Speaker 1: my stoop. So as a still my friend today. Her
Speaker 1: name is if you had to Johnston. She was very smart.
Speaker 1: She if you go to Stifers and you had to
Speaker 1: be smart. The test for New York City was Brooklyn Tech,
Speaker 1: Science and Stuyverson. Brooklyn Tech was it might down the
Speaker 1: block for me here science and stops. She got in
Speaker 1: the I mean she was smart. So one day and
Speaker 1: I swear my mother's grave this this was not a mistake.
Speaker 1: I was sitting on my stoop nothing to do, and
Speaker 1: the spirit told me and got cit Vieta. So I
Speaker 1: went to her house. She lived at University Towers on Waverley, No, Willoughby,
Speaker 1: and uh will it will it be in Asheville Cross
Speaker 1: Street from l I U. So she's studying, I mean
Speaker 1: she's studying the whole summer. And so there's a box
Speaker 1: in the corner of the room. And I said, what's that.
Speaker 1: She said, that's a super eight camera. You can have it.
Speaker 1: I said, was another box? She said, that's the stupid
Speaker 1: that's the cartridge of the super eight that goes into
Speaker 1: the thing says you can have it. I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: a doctor, so I don't need this. She is a
Speaker 1: doctor now. She went to Princeton undergrad and with the
Speaker 1: halready med school. So that was not a mistake for
Speaker 1: me to go VI at his house that day. So
Speaker 1: now it had so now there's something to do. So
Speaker 1: I spent the whole summer not trying to be a filmmaker,
Speaker 1: but just shooting stuff. So I shot the Blackout. It
Speaker 1: was the first summer discos. Every weekend there's a block
Speaker 1: part in DJs will hook them their turntables and speakers
Speaker 1: to the thing and then uh, it was just a
Speaker 1: crazy him. So I came back to school in the
Speaker 1: fall and declared my major's being a mask municse is
Speaker 1: a major. Now more House didn't have that major, so
Speaker 1: I so I took mastercations across the street at Clark College.
Speaker 1: So you had Spellman, Morehouse, Clark College, Atlanta University, and
Speaker 1: Morris Brown these all black institutions really in the same
Speaker 1: mary in Atlanta. And there's a teacher. There's there's a professor,
Speaker 1: his name is Dr Herbiker Burger, still teaching there and
Speaker 1: I told him I had this film I just shot
Speaker 1: from footage. I don't know what to do with. They said,
Speaker 1: you make up feel with it, so mass much case
Speaker 1: is quickly with film, TV, journalism and broadcast, and he said,
Speaker 1: make a documentary. To make a documentary of the film.
Speaker 1: The film end up being called Last House in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: I worked all semester on it, and then many times
Speaker 1: when he had he had the key to the film lab,
Speaker 1: and twice a week he would stay extra. So I
Speaker 1: guess spent another four hours edited and he wasn't getting
Speaker 1: paid for it either. Extra. Why do you think he
Speaker 1: did that? He saw some mammy I didn't see right.
Speaker 1: What did he see in you that you didn't see?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I never asked him that teaches are
Speaker 1: so important. I mean, I think you're going to somebody
Speaker 1: giving you a hand. Explain that, by the way, because
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to just kiss your butt
Speaker 1: here all day, all night long, but because that's very
Speaker 1: easy to do. I mean, let's listen, I'm gonna get
Speaker 1: I don't wanna get emotional here. But like in this business,
Speaker 1: there's just something. I mean, you look at people who
Speaker 1: are talented, and you really, it just it humbles you,
Speaker 1: it quiets you. You know, this man is one of
Speaker 1: the greatest movie makers of the last fifty or seventy
Speaker 1: five years. In this kind thank you, thank you, expends
Speaker 1: one of the greatest filmmakers alive. Thank you ever. And
Speaker 1: so when you that mentorship thing, to explain it people,
Speaker 1: which even was news to me up until recently. You
Speaker 1: don't guest teach. You're on the faculty. You teacher course
Speaker 1: every year for how many years now going on five
Speaker 1: team years. I'm a tenure film professor. You're gonna get
Speaker 1: a paid check man, fantastic, No, he had paid now.
Speaker 1: But the thing is that both my children went to
Speaker 1: n y U, so that tuition ain't no joke. But
Speaker 1: my mother was a teacher, my late mother, she taught
Speaker 1: us Saint Ann's and broken heights on the legendary seven balls.
Speaker 1: None of my grandmother taught My grandmother's grandma was a slave. Yes,
Speaker 1: she graduated from Spellman. My mother, my mother graduated from Spellman,
Speaker 1: My grandmother graduated Spellman, my father and grand my father
Speaker 1: and grandfather graduated from Warhouse. My father's a freshman Dr
Speaker 1: Market came was a senior Martin became the third and
Speaker 1: our classmates the class seventy nine. But my grandmother taught
Speaker 1: art the fifty years in Atlanta, George and fifty years
Speaker 1: she never had one white student because of the Jim
Speaker 1: Crow laws and and and in the South, specifically in
Speaker 1: Atlanta and the fifty years, white students missed on the
Speaker 1: great art teacher. And my mother, my grandmother fifty years
Speaker 1: saved their social Security checks for grandchildren education. So since
Speaker 1: that was the first grandchild, she put me through more
Speaker 1: house and n y U just accumulation of the Social
Speaker 1: Security checks over fifty years. M and she gave me
Speaker 1: the seed money for my my thesis film, Joe's bestse Barbershop.
Speaker 1: We cult head one which wanted student Cammy Ward and
Speaker 1: a little bit money for us. She's gonna have it
Speaker 1: the first film. But but even more important than the money,
Speaker 1: and we gotta go, we gotta talk about the films,
Speaker 1: even more important. And here's the thing, though, here's what
Speaker 1: I say when I when I in public, I always
Speaker 1: say this, parents kill more dreams than anybody, so just
Speaker 1: specifically if those dreams that their children have had to
Speaker 1: do with the arts. So I grew up in a
Speaker 1: very artistic family. So when I said my tory, but
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a filmmaker, nobody said, get the
Speaker 1: funk out of you're crazy. No black filmmakers. You know,
Speaker 1: Melvin was not around anymore. I wasn't making films Ozzie Daves,
Speaker 1: Oscar Show, Oscar Showman Dead for many of me the years.
Speaker 1: But I only got encouragement. And so often when a
Speaker 1: child a young adult tells their parents, you know what,
Speaker 1: what are you gonna make? Dream? Poetry, ballet, dance, photography,
Speaker 1: whatever it is, they're like now their black parents goes
Speaker 1: like this, as long as your monkey has as black
Speaker 1: living in my house? Where am I clothes? Eat my food?
Speaker 1: We we did. We didn't take out a second more
Speaker 1: to go to house. And I mean they got some points,
Speaker 1: you know, in my house that played out like this.
Speaker 1: I'm going to GW to study political science. I go
Speaker 1: up to New York. Long story, but I go my
Speaker 1: audition for the acting program and I get accepted, and
Speaker 1: I'm going to go to the n y U Acting program.
Speaker 1: And I explained to my parents how it's actually gonna
Speaker 1: cost less for me to go to n y U,
Speaker 1: even though it's more expensive school because I requalified for
Speaker 1: all this New York state based loans and scholarships, region scholarship,
Speaker 1: things that I forfeited when I went to Washington. So
Speaker 1: I called my family and I say, I'm gonna leave
Speaker 1: g W. I'm not gonna go to law school. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go to n y U and study acting. And
Speaker 1: my mother, I means, she screamed like a heart, like
Speaker 1: like like Jamie Lee Curtis in a horror movie. She
Speaker 1: was like. My mother was like, are you out of
Speaker 1: your insane? She's screaming, and I go, no, no, I
Speaker 1: go listen. I go, it's gonna cost you guys less money.
Speaker 1: And my father, let's hear him out. Let's hear him
Speaker 1: out here about director Spike Lee. He also teaches in
Speaker 1: the graduate film program at n y U. And when
Speaker 1: we return, we'll do some analysis on our chosen films.
Speaker 1: A place in the sun and on the waterfront. I'm
Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing now,
Speaker 1: more of my conversation in front of a live audience
Speaker 1: at the Rebeca Film Festival with director Spike Lee. Your
Speaker 1: films obviously deal with a lot of themes of racial
Speaker 1: injustice and so forth and struggle are themes that are
Speaker 1: in your own films? Are they in Waterfront as well? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Amazon Anderson Cooper. When this whole thing was Happenel Kaepernick
Speaker 1: and I watched on a Ward from again for the
Speaker 1: million times, and the stuff that Nick was saying with
Speaker 1: the same stuff that did. Marlon Brando was saying, I
Speaker 1: want my rights. And you can see the mob who's
Speaker 1: an NFL owner, because you have when you have the
Speaker 1: shape up. He had the things that guy was giving
Speaker 1: out and here here's the motherfucker here in the scene
Speaker 1: to get under work the guy, the steward, whatever he
Speaker 1: has to give you, like a coin. And so after
Speaker 1: Marlon Brando, Terry Malloyd testifies against Lee J. Cobb friend
Speaker 1: Johnny Friendly, he he says, fuck it, I'm going back
Speaker 1: to work. So we standing there and they're giving out
Speaker 1: a coin to everybody, and then there's nobody there and
Speaker 1: there's some rummy, some bump who's has his hands over
Speaker 1: there and he put in it's so I'm saying, the NFL,
Speaker 1: these motherfucker's higher montherfucking quarterbacks who were horrible. So what
Speaker 1: they did the TERMINI they were doing the Kaepernick. They
Speaker 1: were I don't want to say the guy's name. The
Speaker 1: guy had retired Chicago Bears quarterback. Go ahead say his
Speaker 1: name here. They took him my retirement, gave him a
Speaker 1: ten million dollar contract. He was horrible, and Kaepernick still
Speaker 1: can't get a job. So it was amazing. I mean,
Speaker 1: but Schilberg was a visionary, and when I saw what
Speaker 1: they were doing, the term malloy was the same thing
Speaker 1: that was doing the Kaepernick. I think that there's a
Speaker 1: lot of legend and lore about that film, and you know,
Speaker 1: these stories of everybody's heard a million times about Brando
Speaker 1: doesn't do the off camera for Er and all that crap,
Speaker 1: and you know, all that stuff which is not that
Speaker 1: important is the movie about because ends mea culpa for
Speaker 1: you know, ratting him. I'm glad what I've done to you,
Speaker 1: John Friendly, I'm gonna keep on doing it, he says,
Speaker 1: you know, you know that that no apologies for that.
Speaker 1: But for me, it's like, uh, you know, Brandon was
Speaker 1: someone who was did you know, Yeah, I met Brandon
Speaker 1: one time. I was gonna do I was in this
Speaker 1: wheel of my life where c you know, CBS was
Speaker 1: gonna pay people big money to do these m ow's
Speaker 1: the old m o W we're gonna do? We did.
Speaker 1: I did street Car on Broadway, which we wound up
Speaker 1: doing on uh for TV. No no, no, no, no that,
Speaker 1: but we do we do a street Car and bro
Speaker 1: we were on TV. But that was a waste of time.
Speaker 1: But they paid everybody a lot of money. But like,
Speaker 1: why do it from TV when it's in the in
Speaker 1: the movie? His movie? And so I go see him
Speaker 1: because they want to do Canton a huntin Roof and
Speaker 1: they want him to play Big Daddy, but they're not
Speaker 1: going to insure him. Long story short, as I go
Speaker 1: to his house, there's a true story. I go to
Speaker 1: his house up on Mulholland and I go there to
Speaker 1: beg him to do Cottas and Roof if they will
Speaker 1: ultimately insure, which they wouldn't. And I mean, I'll do
Speaker 1: my my my tepid, brand new impersonation. But I said, uh,
Speaker 1: I said, uh, you know, I you know one thing
Speaker 1: led to whatever. I had lunch with her for four
Speaker 1: hours and I said, uh, uh, you know, I did
Speaker 1: Streetcar on Broadway. Uh, like it was like six or
Speaker 1: seven years before. And then yeah, I heard about that
Speaker 1: from some friends of mine that you did that. I
Speaker 1: heard you were very little, not yes, and I heard
Speaker 1: you were very funny, and I wish I had done
Speaker 1: more of that because it's a very funny part, and
Speaker 1: the character of Stanley is very funny, and I wish
Speaker 1: I had found more of the humor myself. And there's
Speaker 1: a pause, and I went, but it worked out pretty
Speaker 1: well for you just to say it, don't you say,
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, I mean it went okay. Don't
Speaker 1: you think how it went over, you know, in the
Speaker 1: for the public, and uh, but it's uh, yeah, I
Speaker 1: met him just that one time. And uh but but
Speaker 1: you see, he's interesting to me because there's a couple
Speaker 1: of guys. I mean, I'm gonna talk briefly about it
Speaker 1: from the actor's standpoint, which which I can't out, but
Speaker 1: you know, but Sheina was obviously a big beacon for me.
Speaker 1: And there's those moments. There's always a moment, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: John Mandolph was in the hospital and Serprico has got
Speaker 1: the bullet hole in his face. Uh, and John Mandolf
Speaker 1: puts the gold Shield on him and he doesn't want
Speaker 1: the gold Shield to become a detective. And finally he
Speaker 1: gets it in Macino. Just he erupts into this moment,
Speaker 1: this momentary sob this gasp of agony for just a
Speaker 1: moment of his suffering. And I just thought to myself,
Speaker 1: this is why I want al maybe want to be
Speaker 1: an actor as much as anybody, as much as anybody,
Speaker 1: but Gina was the one that maybe want. He was
Speaker 1: one of them, you know, Yead dog Day Surprico was
Speaker 1: one of my favorites. But and Brando to But Brando
Speaker 1: of course gets into that zone where he doesn't care.
Speaker 1: You know, he's a prodigy, and he puts all the
Speaker 1: pieces together when he's twenty four years old. Brando did
Speaker 1: Street Car and Brodery when it was twenty four. I
Speaker 1: did it when I was thirty four. He I never
Speaker 1: met him. You never did call me up two o'clock
Speaker 1: in the morning and uh, I'm not gonna do imitational.
Speaker 1: But he wanted me to do a film about Native Americans.
Speaker 1: And I've never heard from after that. Well, well, he yeah,
Speaker 1: and then I found lady. He would call people late,
Speaker 1: but Tibody got my number and I unbelieve it was
Speaker 1: him at first. But my favorite line he said to
Speaker 1: me was I sit in his house and I'm terrified
Speaker 1: with him. I'm terrified, terrified. I meet people who are
Speaker 1: my peers, you know, and my generation of actors, and
Speaker 1: I admire some of them incredibly, but it's different when
Speaker 1: you meet Kirk Douglas or Gregory Peck and some of
Speaker 1: these guys I met. I mean, I was like, I
Speaker 1: literally pissed my pants when I met Gregory Peck and
Speaker 1: uh like almost literally and uh um and then I'll
Speaker 1: never forget. I'm in Brando's house and he said to me,
Speaker 1: he says, he says, you know, you and I are
Speaker 1: like two dogs that are sniffing each other. He said,
Speaker 1: You're sniffing me and I'm sniffing you. And he said,
Speaker 1: and oh god, oh god, I hate that. I hate that.
Speaker 1: He said, So you say whatever you want to say,
Speaker 1: and I'll say whatever I want to say. I mean,
Speaker 1: just really, he just didn't want anybody to play him.
Speaker 1: He hated that, and I mean, and it was, it was.
Speaker 1: It was an amazing day. I have a day I
Speaker 1: spent with him now. Um So in Waterfront. One of
Speaker 1: the other things I love about this film is that
Speaker 1: is that you know, Kauzan, having directed in the theater,
Speaker 1: he knew that you had to set the table with
Speaker 1: every detail in terms of the acting in their performances
Speaker 1: that there was one week link in the chain. I'm
Speaker 1: talking about Fred Gwynn and I later wanted to play
Speaker 1: Herman Munster with a small role Lee J. Cobb and
Speaker 1: one of his greatest roles, one of the great great
Speaker 1: great actors in history, Lee J. Cob Steiger, great great
Speaker 1: actor Marie s her Firstrmory sat Of course, I mean
Speaker 1: the the the acting is superlative from one end to
Speaker 1: the other. In that cast. It's mind blowing and and
Speaker 1: and uh two ton Tony Galento. You know it was
Speaker 1: Bud that got all those xbox boxers in the film
Speaker 1: because he knew them. Yeah, I mean just the acting
Speaker 1: is breathtaking. But also what I what I love is that.
Speaker 1: Uh also what I love is it it's so nothing
Speaker 1: on the screen really in terms of set design, in
Speaker 1: terms of costume it's it literally is the closest I've
Speaker 1: ever seen to a motion picture that behaves like radio.
Speaker 1: You only focus on the ideas, You're not thrown them
Speaker 1: by a lot of pizzazz and a lot of shots
Speaker 1: and a lot of it's so straight ahead and so honest.
Speaker 1: You as a filmmaker. When you first saw the film,
Speaker 1: what did you think of it as a movie? How
Speaker 1: you put together a movie? I loved it, and I
Speaker 1: gotta give love to Lennon Bernstein. Score amazing and for
Speaker 1: me is one. I know, we gotta get to your
Speaker 1: your selection. But what it has for one of the
Speaker 1: most amazing endings in the movie with the score. And
Speaker 1: they brought in James Wang Hang the great photographer to
Speaker 1: be in the Roller Skates. Boris Kaufman was the cinematographer.
Speaker 1: But you said the brought in James Wang How I
Speaker 1: didn't know that he did that shot? Wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 1: Brando's peel vs walking towards the guy and you see
Speaker 1: everybody goes and stumbles him. Everybody goes in behind him,
Speaker 1: and they see the gate clothes and you see, uh yeah,
Speaker 1: called Maldon and you may even recently walk out. I
Speaker 1: mean that that and a lot of great lines in
Speaker 1: that movie that uh um. I still quote Brando whenever
Speaker 1: my wife would say to me, you know, she'd said
Speaker 1: to me, you know, when are you gonna take me
Speaker 1: to dinner or whatever? The line buzz and you know,
Speaker 1: Brando's got the line in the in the bar with
Speaker 1: the gun, and he says, it's none of a business.
Speaker 1: You have to say that line of people like that
Speaker 1: will not work in the Lee household. Let me tell
Speaker 1: you that it's none of a business. One of a
Speaker 1: manuel business Lee. Uh No. Now, now, another person in
Speaker 1: this film who I thought was that I really was
Speaker 1: taken by was the art director. You know what I
Speaker 1: do work, I do on TCM and things like that
Speaker 1: where I get into these details. Richard Day, who did
Speaker 1: the art direction on this film, was nominated. I think
Speaker 1: I don't have the statistics in front of me. He
Speaker 1: was nominated for like nine Academy Awards and won many
Speaker 1: Academy Awards for for a career that spanned from Dark
Speaker 1: Angel and Dodsworth and dead End in the thirties and
Speaker 1: how Green was My Value? And then it goes onto
Speaker 1: street Car and Waterfront in the in the in the fifties,
Speaker 1: and this guy one Oscar is over the arc of
Speaker 1: like a two decades and uh. And of course Letard
Speaker 1: Bernstein score, which uh you know, the New York Philharmonic
Speaker 1: has a program that I'm the co producer I called
Speaker 1: the Art of a Score, which we played the music
Speaker 1: live to picture, particularly films that have classical repertoire, with
Speaker 1: Kubrick being the u the ultimate example of that, and
Speaker 1: showing films like You Went to Science Again very exactly
Speaker 1: exactly Kubrick, you know two thousand and one, which we're
Speaker 1: showing again for the second time next year, Barry Linded
Speaker 1: and so forth. But we've also played films were to
Speaker 1: have they just have lush, non classical score. Although Bernstein's
Speaker 1: part of that world and we showed Waterfront and the
Speaker 1: Philharmonic played water Front, he didn't like the way he
Speaker 1: wrote more music than was put in We did it, yeah,
Speaker 1: so he wasn't happy with the way to now turn out.
Speaker 1: We talked about Shelley Winters You Go, You Go. I
Speaker 1: got is amazing in a Place in the Sun, and
Speaker 1: when I saw her role, automanty automatically thought about her
Speaker 1: and Night of the Hunter. It's almost like the same.
Speaker 1: It's tragic woman that just can't get it right and
Speaker 1: with the wrong guys, and she got murdered. In both films,
Speaker 1: here's Cliff gleaming with his beauty and she's gleaming with
Speaker 1: her beauty. But the acting of Shelley Winters, her performance
Speaker 1: is unbelievable in this movie. She's incredible, but there are
Speaker 1: very few people. You can't shoot two people this close
Speaker 1: and the famous kissing scene between Montgomery Clift and Elizabeth Taylor.
Speaker 1: You can't shoot two people that close and hold the
Speaker 1: camera that close for too long unless you have two
Speaker 1: perfect looking people. And in this film you have the
Speaker 1: You have the most beautiful man, or one of them
Speaker 1: that ever lived in the history of the movies, and
Speaker 1: the most beautiful woman. I mean, it's it's like a
Speaker 1: cinematic like a confection, you know. I mean, in terms
Speaker 1: of the delight you feel from watching these people. The
Speaker 1: scene when they meet and he's shooting pool at the
Speaker 1: party and she walks in, I mean, there's there's there's
Speaker 1: so much for the eye. There's so much beauty in
Speaker 1: this film, and just flat out beauty between these two people.
Speaker 1: And then beyond that is this horrible drama of what
Speaker 1: happens to him and to Shelley when there's no spoiler
Speaker 1: alert here, but it's this film. The first time I
Speaker 1: ever saw this film, I remember he's on television. I
Speaker 1: mean a lot of these films I saw on TV
Speaker 1: because when I was a kid, Channel nine, right there
Speaker 1: you go. I mean, people, I always say the same
Speaker 1: tire thing all the time about this. But you know,
Speaker 1: no HBO, no vs VCRs. When I was a kid,
Speaker 1: it was Channel eleven, Channel five and Channel uh nine
Speaker 1: would make licensing agreements with a studio probably haven't been
Speaker 1: a cycle. Do remember I'm gonna come out a million
Speaker 1: dollar movie with the theme from Gama the Wind. So
Speaker 1: I see this movie on TV. I remember, like, it's
Speaker 1: not even about sexuality, I don't think, but just kind
Speaker 1: of sitting there with my mouth up and going, oh
Speaker 1: my god. You know, I think I'd probably kill Shelley
Speaker 1: Winters for Elizabeth Taylor too. And that's not a hard choice,
Speaker 1: but that but that movie doesn't mean you hear you've
Speaker 1: got the guy though they both played that mean Elizabeth
Speaker 1: Taylor was a breathtaking actress, and and and and Clift
Speaker 1: was it was it was a brilliant actor. And then
Speaker 1: you see the juxtaposition between Shelly win Is, you know,
Speaker 1: a lower lower class and you know that sound was
Speaker 1: really about classism. Even though Montgomery is Eastman, he's like
Speaker 1: not really part of the real family. So he's trying
Speaker 1: to get up the ladder. Two, I have to take
Speaker 1: advantage of you being here for this kind of thing. Now,
Speaker 1: what do you do when you direct the film? Because
Speaker 1: they always say that, the directors then and now, it's
Speaker 1: always been the same that they cast. Well, you try
Speaker 1: your best to get who you want for the role.
Speaker 1: You have a dream cast, and you try to get
Speaker 1: them in terms of their availability, and there their their
Speaker 1: their their desire to be in the film, and can
Speaker 1: you afford them, and so all those things come together,
Speaker 1: which I want you to speak about for people to
Speaker 1: understand what an extraordinarily difficult thing that is to do.
Speaker 1: I meaning, you're you're gonna make a film, Spike Lee
Speaker 1: is gonna make a film, and you're gonna have anybody
Speaker 1: in your films. People are begging to work with you,
Speaker 1: and sometimes you don't get who you want in the film. True. Well,
Speaker 1: since we are here at the Tribeca Film Festival, the
Speaker 1: role of sal I offered to Mr de Niro. Are
Speaker 1: you want to do it? That son of a bitch? No?
Speaker 1: I think it's Daniel you got nominated, and I think that,
Speaker 1: which I mean, I love Bob and I wanted my film,
Speaker 1: but the narrow might have tilted. It was meant to
Speaker 1: be a ensemble piece, do the right thing. Men. You
Speaker 1: had two tuo. I mean everybody was in it, but
Speaker 1: no one was really Richard Edson, the Great Ruby, d
Speaker 1: Ozzy Davis. You no but Sam Sam Samuel Jackson. He
Speaker 1: was saying back then, g and Carlo, Jean Casposito, Rosie Perez.
Speaker 1: That's her first film is Mark Lawrence, first film, Robin
Speaker 1: Harris first film, The Late Robin Harris. So it's been
Speaker 1: my experience things happen for the most part the way
Speaker 1: it should be, because that's not the only time where
Speaker 1: I wanted someone and I didn't get them and it
Speaker 1: turned out for the best because I got somebody who
Speaker 1: just fits better. So and it also like it was
Speaker 1: like a sports team, you know. I mean one year
Speaker 1: the Lake's Head like by all stars starting. They were
Speaker 1: terrible because it was no there's no chemistry and everybody's
Speaker 1: gonna be starting. Everybody can't be like it just needs
Speaker 1: to come together. As interesting. It's interesting because you hear
Speaker 1: that across the board, you have an ensemble of people
Speaker 1: and if you change one little thing, it would upset
Speaker 1: the now. Now without naming names, because one of my
Speaker 1: goals into you know, embarrassing anybody but when you make
Speaker 1: films as a as a director, and your films are dramas,
Speaker 1: they're they're they're they're acting is at the four you
Speaker 1: don't do action films and space movies and all this
Speaker 1: other crap. I'm sorry, I didn't mean that. Um um.
Speaker 1: What I meant was because we love space movie, let's face.
Speaker 1: But when you're directing, what is directing performance for you? Now?
Speaker 1: Because like you bring these people in, and you bring
Speaker 1: people who are gonna play at the role when you
Speaker 1: you assume they're pretty good to go. But what happens
Speaker 1: when it's not working? How involved are you involved? And
Speaker 1: like walking up to people, take them aside and go,
Speaker 1: hey man, this is what I need in the scene. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you can't. It has to be done you know,
Speaker 1: in a whisper. If you do that, I felt you're
Speaker 1: gonna lose the actor. Even if you take them aside
Speaker 1: and do it. Know I'm saying it has to be
Speaker 1: done private, exactly. I agree with you. Oh no, it
Speaker 1: should be private, you know. So you really, here's the thing.
Speaker 1: Don't you try to head that stuff off in rehearsal.
Speaker 1: You can't be on on the on the day while
Speaker 1: you're shooting you know hundred people, you know, crew members,
Speaker 1: and you're discussing the character and the aren't all that stuff.
Speaker 1: That stuff has to be worked out in rehearsal. But
Speaker 1: sometimes whether I'm having a bad dare act and having
Speaker 1: a bad day, things that happen. You're just trying to
Speaker 1: go through it. But and make sure that at the
Speaker 1: end we're done that we talked. So gotta get you,
Speaker 1: gotta work that ship out so it's squashed, done with
Speaker 1: and you could continue in good spirits. I'm reminded of
Speaker 1: my dear, dear friend who passed away, Marvin Worth, you know,
Speaker 1: Marvin Brutus, Malcolm X. Give me an example. Maybe he's
Speaker 1: one producers who actually contribute to help you make the
Speaker 1: movie you want to make. Well, Marvin, but the rights
Speaker 1: to the autobiography of Malcolm X, as told by Alex Haley,
Speaker 1: I mean really really many years ago, and he's been
Speaker 1: trying to make it. Set lamed a whole bunch of people.
Speaker 1: One time, Richard Pryor and supposed to play him, and
Speaker 1: he's he said, he sent me letters saying you want
Speaker 1: to be involved in film, So I never I never
Speaker 1: got the letters. So then I was reading the papers
Speaker 1: that Denzel Washington was gonna play Malcolm X. He had
Speaker 1: already done the play a Broadway When Chickens Come, When
Speaker 1: Chickens Come Home the Roost, and the director was gonna
Speaker 1: be Norman Jewison. And I said to myself self, hold
Speaker 1: the funk up. And Norman great director in the heat
Speaker 1: and the Night. I mean, he's done many, many, five films.
Speaker 1: And I just began to talk about a little bit.
Speaker 1: And then Marvin Worth call me, Sayspike, stop talking. Let's
Speaker 1: have you and Norman sit down, and so we we met.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is not a new story, it's all
Speaker 1: and uh, Norman want to know why I want to
Speaker 1: do it, and I told him, and he gracefully said, okay.
Speaker 1: He didn't have to do that. He had the gig.
Speaker 1: He was a direct he was the one the Marvel
Speaker 1: Works and also Water Brothers. So I've always had deep
Speaker 1: respect for Mr Jewis, And because he could have said,
Speaker 1: fuck you, Spike, I don't care who you are. I'm
Speaker 1: directing this film. But there are producers, and this is
Speaker 1: I guess what my question is, because a lot of
Speaker 1: people that that's an intangible for a lot of people.
Speaker 1: What producers do beyond, as they say, bringing a vital
Speaker 1: element to the table, the script, the star, the money
Speaker 1: from the studio. They've got the juice with the studio,
Speaker 1: what have you. But there are producers who have actually
Speaker 1: have they've helped you make your films. If they've they've continued,
Speaker 1: there's no way pause. I've been involved. I was directed
Speaker 1: Malcolm X without the late great Marvel Worth. I went
Speaker 1: to a screening. Marvin invited me to a screening, uh
Speaker 1: at the Academy in uh another DJ but the Academy,
Speaker 1: you know, one of the great great screening rooms in
Speaker 1: all of Los Angeles, which is saying a lot. And
Speaker 1: then we went to that screening of Malcolm X there
Speaker 1: and uh, I gotta say, it's one of your great films.
Speaker 1: That's a great, great film, Malcolm xIC all that goes
Speaker 1: to Mr Denzel Washington. I know we're talking all the films.
Speaker 1: I have to just say this real quick because tomorrow
Speaker 1: let's see Denzel Washington that had the opening of Lifeman
Speaker 1: coming for three curtain call. It's like a nine play, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: not that long, but people ask me all the time,
Speaker 1: you know, we uh, Denzel more better Malcolm X. He
Speaker 1: got game inside man. So it's been a minute. But
Speaker 1: Denzel people ask me about his performance. He prepared a
Speaker 1: year before. He told his agent, don't give me any
Speaker 1: more work. Learn to praying Arabic, speaking Arabic, learning to
Speaker 1: read the Koran, cut out pork, cut out alcohol, because
Speaker 1: he under Denzel understands that just sounded like somebody or
Speaker 1: looking like that's just surface. And he and he knew
Speaker 1: that if he did the job need to be done,
Speaker 1: that Malcolm's spirit will come into him. I put my
Speaker 1: hand on a stack of Bibles. There was a scene.
Speaker 1: All the speeches in the film were Malcolm's words, and
Speaker 1: there was one speech. I mean, he was killing it,
Speaker 1: and I'm looking at him. I got the momit of
Speaker 1: him looking at Ernest right here, my great sematographer, Ernest Dickinson.
Speaker 1: So I see that, to see him looking at the sides.
Speaker 1: And the scene is about the end. Some great called
Speaker 1: cut and he keeps going, we're shooting film, and he
Speaker 1: went off another two minutes and finally Ernest that Spike,
Speaker 1: we ran out. So I woke up to Denzel. He's
Speaker 1: almost like in a daze. I said, d what was that?
Speaker 1: So what are you doing? Is it? Spike I don't know.
Speaker 1: I can't tell you what I just said. That ship
Speaker 1: can't happen if you don't prepare for it. He worked
Speaker 1: a year and and ask anybody was gonna set that
Speaker 1: day we thought we saw Malcolm. Do you know? You
Speaker 1: know what I love about that film? Also, it's tough
Speaker 1: sometimes if you play if the film calls for an actress,
Speaker 1: a woman to play that role of the wife of
Speaker 1: the of the you know, it's a supporting role. And uh,
Speaker 1: what I love was I thought, if Angela Bassett was
Speaker 1: my wife, nothing I couldn't do either, you know, and
Speaker 1: brought it. She was so what Angela Bassett is such
Speaker 1: a great actress and she's so wonderful on that film.
Speaker 1: So I understand that we're gonna take some questions. You know,
Speaker 1: what's up, Spike. My name is Chris. I'm from Virginia,
Speaker 1: and I just wanted to ask you, what do you
Speaker 1: think of Black Panther? My brother, I've seen it four
Speaker 1: times me too. I look at the world now differently
Speaker 1: before black Panther and not the Black Panther. That that
Speaker 1: should change everything, especially for people of color. Now, wait
Speaker 1: a second, I mean I think in these times, in
Speaker 1: these modern times where we're trying to all be more
Speaker 1: sensitive and more inclusive. Don't you want to know what
Speaker 1: I thought a black panther? I mean, do you want
Speaker 1: to ask me? Go ahead? Oh, I was actually gonna
Speaker 1: ask you about Infinity Wars and yeah, my brother, you
Speaker 1: bought the catsups. You know it was the down. We're
Speaker 1: give us the next question. Next question, can you tell
Speaker 1: us a little bit about your new movie, The Black
Speaker 1: Klansman and what that's based on. The Black answers are
Speaker 1: based on the book My Man Hair is in It.
Speaker 1: Ron Starwarp was the first African American policeman in Carol Springs.
Speaker 1: He ended up infiltrating the clan. He's reading the paper
Speaker 1: and the clan put it ad in the paper when
Speaker 1: we need new members. So Ron Stalward thinks, as the joke,
Speaker 1: you know it's a Google. So she calls up and
Speaker 1: thinking as a joke, he leaves. They don't pick up
Speaker 1: as a voicemails. He leaves his real name and phone number,
Speaker 1: and the clan calls it back and said, we want
Speaker 1: you to come down for interview. So since he's an
Speaker 1: African American, he can't really show up for the inter
Speaker 1: of you. So who has to send my man? Is
Speaker 1: that a Boston Red Sox hat there? Thank you? Row
Speaker 1: seven twelve? Row seven? That, oh boy? So he has
Speaker 1: to get a white police officer play hidden. That's Adam
Speaker 1: Driver And so we're in official competition that can and
Speaker 1: it opens August tent so check it out. And who
Speaker 1: plays the lead. The lead is played by John David Washton,
Speaker 1: Denzel's eldest son. Denzel's son. You might have seen him
Speaker 1: in Ballers. We have time for one more, one more,
Speaker 1: um in the scope of all of your projects, what
Speaker 1: is the work that has been most transformative and what
Speaker 1: is the legacy that you hope to leave. She was
Speaker 1: actually looking at you. She pretended it was for both
Speaker 1: of us, but she was looking right at you when
Speaker 1: she said that it's okay, It's okay, I would say uh.
Speaker 1: I did a documentary called Full Little Girls, which is
Speaker 1: about the bombing of the nine Birmingham Church, the six
Speaker 1: and Street Baptist Church, and Burma Obama. Full of girls
Speaker 1: were killed. Jacob Hoover and the and FBI knew who
Speaker 1: did it a week after. One of the guy's name
Speaker 1: was Donna mind Bob. His nickname was DNA nine Bob
Speaker 1: and for many years the case was cold. And before
Speaker 1: the film opened at the Film Forum, Karen Cooper and
Speaker 1: a couple of days before the open the FBI called
Speaker 1: me and they said, want to see the film. The
Speaker 1: day after the film opened, they reopened that case. After many,
Speaker 1: many years, they went to trial and it was motherfucker's
Speaker 1: died in prison. True story they did. They killed murder
Speaker 1: those full little girls and just went about their lives,
Speaker 1: you know, and they died. I think I don't know
Speaker 1: how many wanted to, but they died in prison. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, this is gonna sound corny and sound stupid.
Speaker 1: When I was on my phone by the way, a
Speaker 1: moment ago, trying to look up something about him, and
Speaker 1: my wife, who's here, texted me and said, put your
Speaker 1: phone down. She literally texted me, she wrote, enough with
Speaker 1: the phone. My legacy is not really that much about Honestly,
Speaker 1: I don't really think about the work I do that much.
Speaker 1: It comes and goes. It's sand castles, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: the ocean comes. It's the moment you have with people.
Speaker 1: I'm doing the Edge with Tony Hopkins, and he and
Speaker 1: I would have lunch together and we would do dueling
Speaker 1: Richard Burton in person Nations together over lunch and I'll
Speaker 1: never forget that to the day I die. I wanted
Speaker 1: to work with him and he called me recently I
Speaker 1: had me comeing to a movie with him, and it
Speaker 1: was it was really so. I mean it was we
Speaker 1: did one day. I shot this little thing. I won't
Speaker 1: give it away, but what a great honor it was
Speaker 1: to get good with Norton. I just did a movie
Speaker 1: with Ed Norton. Ed directed this wonderful movie mother Liss Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: I'm in this crowd with people I worship, you know,
Speaker 1: uh Cherry Jones and Connavali and uh Willem to follow
Speaker 1: him on the set with him going, oh man, this
Speaker 1: is what it's all about. You know. To me, it's
Speaker 1: who you work with. I got to do a good
Speaker 1: Shepherd with Bob Dinner would walk up to me and
Speaker 1: uh Matt Damon and he would talk to me, and literally,
Speaker 1: after like thirty seconds, I would I mean, I couldn't
Speaker 1: hear him. I went death all the movie starts screaming
Speaker 1: in my head and he talked to me, give me
Speaker 1: the direction. I looked at my go I'm sorry because
Speaker 1: you repeat that. I wasn't listening to a word you said.
Speaker 1: Just now, hey, look at me go. You're very good, Alec,
Speaker 1: very good to be with those people, to be with them,
Speaker 1: And with that in mind, would you all please join
Speaker 1: me in thanking our guests. One of the greatest movie
Speaker 1: makers in history. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1: M H. Spike Lee's Black Klansmen will be in theaters
Speaker 1: August ten. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to
Speaker 1: Here's the Thing