Speaker 1: Sheila Johnson is one of the nation's most successful black
Speaker 1: female entrepreneurs. She helped us start Black Entertainment television. Now
Speaker 1: she's an owner of a major hospitality company, Salamander, and
Speaker 1: is also an owner of three major league sports teams.
Speaker 1: She's also an accomplished musician. Had a chance to sit
Speaker 1: down with her recently to talk about her extraordinary career.
Speaker 2: So right now, if I understand it correctly, you.
Speaker 1: Have been a large developer of a company called BT
Speaker 1: which we'll talk about surely, and that was very successful.
Speaker 1: You now are an author with this book, was the
Speaker 1: best selling book. You also are a philanthropist. You've made
Speaker 1: a large gift to many places, but in Washington, d C.
Speaker 2: In the mall. We'll talk about that in a moment.
Speaker 1: You also are an accomplished musician, a violinist, and you've
Speaker 1: started symphonies in this city and in the Jordan, and
Speaker 1: you now are in the hospitality business.
Speaker 2: So what do you do on the seventh day to
Speaker 2: you rest?
Speaker 3: Well, more than anything I have to tell you, I
Speaker 3: am in the third act of my life, and this
Speaker 3: has been the happiest I've ever been, you know, Okay, so.
Speaker 4: And so on the seventh day.
Speaker 2: I just don't even rest you are also an owner.
Speaker 1: I should have pointed out of three major sports teams' right, right?
Speaker 2: And you're the first.
Speaker 1: Woman, as I understand it, first woman to own three major.
Speaker 2: Stake in three major sports teams. Is that right?
Speaker 4: Yes? And we'll say African American.
Speaker 1: You were approached by the owner then of the I guess,
Speaker 1: the Washington Wizards and the Washington Caps about maybe buying
Speaker 1: the Washington Mystics, which the female the women's basketball team.
Speaker 2: And what did you say.
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, it's a poland.
Speaker 3: He did come to me and Susan O'Malley and they said,
Speaker 3: a Polson says, look, I want you to be the
Speaker 3: face of the Washington Mystics. And I said, what do
Speaker 3: you mean to be the face of? He says, I
Speaker 3: want you to buy this team. He his health was failing,
Speaker 3: and I I have to tell you, and a lot
Speaker 3: of women can understand this, we never get these opportunities.
Speaker 3: So that was the first thing that struck me. And
Speaker 3: I was flattered. I was really flattered. And I said, well, Abe,
Speaker 3: what are the financials on this? And he's handed him
Speaker 3: to me. He says, well, they're not making money, but
Speaker 3: I was still intrigued about team ownership. So then I
Speaker 3: called my lawyer, Sandy Ye, and I said, Sandy, I've
Speaker 3: just been offered a basketball team.
Speaker 4: He goes, you don't wanna buy a basketball.
Speaker 3: Team, and I said, it's Sandy. If you were offered
Speaker 3: this team, who would you do? And he was quiet,
Speaker 3: and I said, you just answered my question. And so
Speaker 3: I said, I'll be at your all. And I said,
Speaker 3: once you get Ted, leonsis on the phone and we
Speaker 3: talked to him, and I told Ted.
Speaker 4: I asked Ted.
Speaker 3: I said, I've just been offered the Washington Mystics, and
Speaker 3: I know that you want to buy the Wizards and
Speaker 3: you already own the Caps, and I said, look, I
Speaker 3: can make you an offer. I said, I would like
Speaker 3: to buy into Lincoln Holdings, which is what it was then,
Speaker 3: and I said I'd like to be the first woman
Speaker 3: and the first African American. I said, I do not
Speaker 3: think there's any other franchise in the country that can
Speaker 3: boasts that opportunity. And he says, well, let me go
Speaker 3: to the other partners and let's see what happens.
Speaker 4: And that's what happened.
Speaker 3: So I got it, and I bought into I paid
Speaker 3: the money.
Speaker 1: So what happened was you were offered a money losing
Speaker 1: women's basketball team, and you said, I don't want to
Speaker 1: just be the face of a money losing basketball team.
Speaker 2: I want to be in the other sports as well.
Speaker 2: Is that right?
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, you know you got to be smart about this.
Speaker 3: Okay, a very small You know, there's three teams that
Speaker 3: can share losses and profits.
Speaker 1: Now you're an owner of the Washington Caps, the Washington Wizards,
Speaker 1: the Washington Mystics, right, any more sports teams?
Speaker 4: Well, let's see.
Speaker 1: Okay, Now, I don't know where you are now in
Speaker 1: life as a place, and many people would like to
Speaker 1: be Did you start out where the wealthy father and mother?
Speaker 4: And they weren't wealthy, they were middle class.
Speaker 1: Middle class. So you might describe what happened in your
Speaker 1: family growing up. Because you begin your book with a
Speaker 1: relatively sad I would say, situation, you might describe what
Speaker 1: happened in that situation.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a case.
Speaker 3: And now we're going to go all the way back
Speaker 3: to the fifties early sixties, and this is a time
Speaker 3: when women had very little leverage and control over their
Speaker 3: own lives. My father was one of eight African American
Speaker 3: neurosurgeons in the country, and that put us in a
Speaker 3: social status up here. He then decided one night he
Speaker 3: was just leaving and he just left us cold. And
Speaker 3: so my mother suddenly went from here to here in society,
Speaker 3: in the eyes of society.
Speaker 4: Her friends left her. It was going on.
Speaker 3: She literally had a nervous breakdown and I was coming in.
Speaker 3: I was working at JC Penny, and I came in
Speaker 3: and we found her on the floor in the kitchen
Speaker 3: and convulsions. And that was a time, at sixteen years old,
Speaker 3: that I suddenly had to grow up. I had to
Speaker 3: take care of that family.
Speaker 1: You were interested in music, right, and you were an
Speaker 1: accomplished violinist.
Speaker 4: What had happened?
Speaker 3: Despite all my father's issues, he did he was a
Speaker 3: great pianist. Okay, I don't know where it came from,
Speaker 3: but he could sit down and play anything. And there
Speaker 3: was always music in our household. My mother even played
Speaker 3: the piano. And when we moved to Mayward, Illinois, District
Speaker 3: eighty nine said that it was mandatory that would pick
Speaker 3: up a music instrument. And that's when I picked up
Speaker 3: the violin and I just fell in love with this instrument.
Speaker 4: That instrument was the foundation of my life.
Speaker 3: It was my sanctuary and I became really good at it.
Speaker 1: So you graduated from high school and you went to college.
Speaker 4: Where University of Illinois and Champagne and.
Speaker 2: Were you playing music on the side.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 3: I was in a very middle class community. I didn't
Speaker 3: know about SAT preps. I didn't know about a lot
Speaker 3: of things in preparation for colleges that the upper class
Speaker 3: white people had. So the problem was is I went
Speaker 3: and they said you got to go take an ssat test,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, what's an essat test?
Speaker 4: I went once Saturday and took it.
Speaker 3: I had the lowest SAT scores you can imagine. And
Speaker 3: when I told my music teacher it high school, I said,
Speaker 3: I don't understand these scores. She says, oh my god,
Speaker 3: these are We're really bad. And she said, but don't
Speaker 3: you worry. She says, I want you to go down
Speaker 3: an audition at the University of Illinois and Champagne, which
Speaker 3: I did, and I played in front of Paul Rowland,
Speaker 3: who was also instrumental in bringing Suzuki, along with John Kendall,
Speaker 3: into the country, and he says, I'm taking you into
Speaker 3: this university.
Speaker 4: I got full scholarship. And it was because of my
Speaker 4: musical skills that I got in there. All right.
Speaker 2: So you went there and you majored in violin.
Speaker 3: I majored in music in performance and music education, okay.
Speaker 1: And so you were doing well there, and you expected
Speaker 1: to be a professional musician.
Speaker 3: I was, yes, And I played in the Chicago Civic
Speaker 3: Symphony and under John Martineau in the Chicago Symphony, and
Speaker 3: then from there moved to the East Coast, and that's
Speaker 3: where I settled in this area and started teaching at
Speaker 3: Sidwell Friends and put together one of the most magnificent
Speaker 3: middle school orchestras.
Speaker 4: That orchestra grew.
Speaker 3: I left Sidwell in seventy two, took that orchestra and
Speaker 3: bought a house on Brandywine Street, where that orchestra grew
Speaker 3: to one hundred and ten students.
Speaker 4: And that orchestra was so good.
Speaker 3: We played at the old Post Office Pavilion which is
Speaker 3: now that was the Trump Hotel, now the Waldorf and
Speaker 3: Queen nor that whole delegation came in and heard that
Speaker 3: orchestra and they went, oh my god. We were invited
Speaker 3: to Amman, Jordan to play at the largest cultural festival
Speaker 3: in the Middle East called Drash and from that point
Speaker 3: on we got invited back six or seven times to
Speaker 3: perform over there, and I received the highest honor in
Speaker 3: education from King Hussein.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, you still play the violin.
Speaker 3: I still had my violin. I picked up the cello
Speaker 3: during covid Yo Yoma give you lessons or no.
Speaker 4: I wish he would.
Speaker 2: One of the reasons that.
Speaker 1: You became financially successful was a company you helped to build.
Speaker 2: Yes, all Black Entertainment Television.
Speaker 4: That's right.
Speaker 2: When did you start that company?
Speaker 3: We started, I can tell you we went on the
Speaker 3: air January twenty fifth, nineteen seventy nine. Before that was
Speaker 3: just getting everything in place. I ended up having to
Speaker 3: sell my violin, my precious violin that my parents mortgaged
Speaker 3: the house for to pay the rent on the offices.
Speaker 3: And it was the old American Trial Lawyers Building, which
Speaker 3: is now a hotel in Georgetown. But it was just
Speaker 3: these sacrifices that you have to make in life.
Speaker 1: So you started this with somebody who met when you
Speaker 1: were in college.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So.
Speaker 1: What was the concept behind black Entertainment television?
Speaker 2: What were you trying to do? Why was there need
Speaker 2: for bet?
Speaker 4: What you have to understand BT.
Speaker 3: Was born during the birth of all cable you know,
Speaker 3: that was saying in.
Speaker 4: Bloomberg, you name them.
Speaker 3: Everybody started these cable networks, but what they weren't addressing
Speaker 3: was the voice of the African American community. And so
Speaker 3: when Bob was working with the National Cable Television Association,
Speaker 3: he had to take a senior citizen up to the
Speaker 3: hill to try to get government approval and some money
Speaker 3: to start a senior citizen channel. They turned him down.
Speaker 3: He threw the proposal in the trash. Bob pulled it out,
Speaker 3: we brought it home. He says, you need to look
Speaker 3: at this. I'm crossing out senior.
Speaker 4: I write in black, you know. And I said, you know.
Speaker 3: And we made some tweaks, and I said, but how
Speaker 3: are we going to get money for this? And then
Speaker 3: we realized there's John Alone in Denver, who owned all
Speaker 3: the cable stations across the country. Took it to him.
Speaker 3: He says, this is the best idea since slice bread.
Speaker 3: He immediately wrote a check for five hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 3: to get us started. But you know, in the television
Speaker 3: business it goes like that.
Speaker 2: It was like that in every business. But okay, I know.
Speaker 3: But anyway, he really was our guardian angel all the
Speaker 3: way up to the sale of Viacom.
Speaker 4: Okay, we had to pay him back.
Speaker 3: We paid him back every penny that he invested into
Speaker 3: beet BT.
Speaker 1: What you and your then husband ran it for a
Speaker 1: roughly twenty years, was it? And then you decided to
Speaker 1: sell it to buy a coom for a very nice price.
Speaker 4: At the time, Well, I didn't know it was going
Speaker 4: to go for that.
Speaker 3: I just remember being in Times Square and I saw
Speaker 3: the tick or take thing going around and said BT
Speaker 3: was told for three billion dollars.
Speaker 4: And I'm like, oh, this is perfect. Let me call
Speaker 4: my lawyer so I can.
Speaker 1: So you sold it, you split up the proceeds, Yes,
Speaker 1: and later you decided that you would try to spend
Speaker 1: some time in a place called Middleburg, where you had
Speaker 1: bought a house. Middleburg was not the most welcoming place
Speaker 1: for African Americans.
Speaker 4: Was it. No, not at all.
Speaker 1: Where'd the idea come from the build a resort hotel there?
Speaker 3: Well, read the book, But anyway, it was it was
Speaker 3: a town that I fell in love with. First of all,
Speaker 3: I had to buy a mark, I mean a gun
Speaker 3: shop that had a Confederate flag in the window.
Speaker 4: I wanted to get rid of that, so I bought
Speaker 4: the building right Sandy.
Speaker 3: There were some trinks I had to make there to
Speaker 3: make it livable, and I built a performing arts center
Speaker 3: for the Hills School. So there were just some things
Speaker 3: that needed you know, you got to build a foundation there.
Speaker 4: And so then a broker came to me and said.
Speaker 3: Look, Pamela Harriman has passed away, as you know, and
Speaker 3: this was the last of the estate. So there's three
Speaker 3: hundred and forty acres there, and they said, would you
Speaker 3: be interested.
Speaker 4: I knew the.
Speaker 3: Town was financially bankrupt, and I said, I knew if
Speaker 3: I could do something as a businesswoman, I needed to
Speaker 3: put an economic engine in that place and an anchor.
Speaker 3: So when I went up on the land, I knew
Speaker 3: immediately what I needed to do, and that was to
Speaker 3: build that I was very naive about it.
Speaker 4: I remember having a vision of what I wanted to.
Speaker 3: Do, but I also had a party up there to
Speaker 3: introduce my idea and my vision. The next morning I
Speaker 3: went was on my way to Dulles Airport and there
Speaker 3: were signs on both sides of the roads that said
Speaker 3: don't be eating Middleburg, and I called my lawyer who
Speaker 3: was sitting here, and I said, you know what, We've
Speaker 3: got a problem. And that went on for the next
Speaker 3: ten years. It was the fight of my life. And
Speaker 3: I will tell you with everything that I went through,
Speaker 3: it's all with all in the newspapers, everything. But when
Speaker 3: the final vote went down, I won by one vote.
Speaker 1: One vote was the right to build the hotel. You wanted,
Speaker 1: that's right, so you started building it. But then what happened.
Speaker 4: There was accession hit.
Speaker 3: I got a call from the bank and they said,
Speaker 3: you better them offball this for a while and we'll
Speaker 3: give you the green light when its started again.
Speaker 4: But the other thing I want you all to know
Speaker 4: is a woman.
Speaker 3: Even with all of my money that I had at
Speaker 3: the time, I could not get a bank loan to
Speaker 3: build it. I had to use my own money to
Speaker 3: build that resort because.
Speaker 4: I had.
Speaker 3: I don't know, I was a woman, and I just
Speaker 3: could not get the bank loan.
Speaker 2: So ultimately, though, you just you went ahead.
Speaker 1: The reception kind of went away, and you decided to
Speaker 1: build it with your mobile money.
Speaker 3: Then the bank called and said you can proceed now, okay,
Speaker 3: But I still had to use all my own money
Speaker 3: to finish that off.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you built it. How many rooms was it initially?
Speaker 4: It was?
Speaker 2: It up?
Speaker 3: Well, we started with sixty eight and then it grew
Speaker 3: and it grew and it grew. So now that was
Speaker 3: the one one hundred and sixty eight and that's where
Speaker 3: the town put the plug on me. That that's what
Speaker 3: I do. However, I was able to get out of
Speaker 3: that to build forty nine homes which are going up now.
Speaker 3: And I was able to also broke a deal where
Speaker 3: the town hall. I was able to lease a piece
Speaker 3: of the property to the town. They have a town hall,
Speaker 3: and I have got the police department on my property.
Speaker 1: So now, so you decided to build this hotel in Middelburg,
Speaker 1: And why did you call it Salamander?
Speaker 4: Oh, this is a great story. So when I moved
Speaker 4: to that area and I decided to buy.
Speaker 3: The farm where I'm living now, there was a guy
Speaker 3: by the name of Bill Ildasaker who owned the property.
Speaker 3: I kind of knew the name because his brother was
Speaker 3: teaching at Princeton or something like that, but he had
Speaker 3: never really lived at the farm, and he had a
Speaker 3: name for the farm called Cottswald or something like that,
Speaker 3: which I did not want, and so I said who
Speaker 3: had the farm before?
Speaker 4: And they said it was Bruce Sunlan.
Speaker 3: I contacted Bruce Sunlan and asked him what was the
Speaker 3: name of his farm before, and he said it was Salamander,
Speaker 3: and I said, well, where did that name come from?
Speaker 3: Bruce Sunlan was a fighter pilot that was shot down
Speaker 3: over Nazi occupied Belgium.
Speaker 4: His entire unit was captured.
Speaker 3: He was able to get out across.
Speaker 4: Europe and ended up an.
Speaker 3: Ally territory of France. He fought for briefly for the
Speaker 3: French resistance. The US then came to him and said, look,
Speaker 3: we have got to go in and we have to
Speaker 3: rescue the rest of your unit out of the pow camp.
Speaker 3: This is a true story, the story of Hogan's heroes.
Speaker 4: That is Bruce.
Speaker 3: Sundlon, that was where the TV show came from. And
Speaker 3: he says, well, what does salamander mean? And they said, mythically,
Speaker 3: it's the only animal that could walk through fire and
Speaker 3: still come out alive, which I loved, but you know, realistically,
Speaker 3: if you cut off its limbs, they regenerate. And it
Speaker 3: just hit at that time a nerve with me and
Speaker 3: I said, I need that brand and I'm going to
Speaker 3: brand the Salamander.
Speaker 1: So Salamander. Was your original idea was to build a
Speaker 1: luxury resort there. Why did you decide to build more
Speaker 1: hotels or by other ones? Was that your original idea
Speaker 1: or just to build one or miltmore.
Speaker 4: No, it's just.
Speaker 3: That after the success of building the resort in Middleburgh
Speaker 3: and it just took off. You know, they said, if
Speaker 3: you build it, they'll come. And then after I hired
Speaker 3: the most exceptional team I could have put together and
Speaker 3: they're still with me. And we were so successful with
Speaker 3: the resort out there, we decided to expand.
Speaker 2: Now that you're one of.
Speaker 1: The I think wealthiest African American women in the United States,
Speaker 1: I think that's fair to say you don't suffer any
Speaker 1: gender or racial discrimination.
Speaker 2: Is that right?
Speaker 3: I'll come out it continues to go on. It's something
Speaker 3: that I continue to address. I normally address it through
Speaker 3: my company by making sure that I hire diverse minds, people.
Speaker 4: Of color, women of color, men of color.
Speaker 3: And when Kwame Alawache lost his restaurant at the Intercontinental
Speaker 3: down of the war, and it was written about in
Speaker 3: the Washington Post, I called him immediately and I said,
Speaker 3: I want you to come to Salamander. We have been
Speaker 3: together ever since, and we decided to put this family
Speaker 3: reunion together to bring chefs of color, both men and women,
Speaker 3: and so may as from all across the country. We
Speaker 3: have forty one chefs to come and to really discuss
Speaker 3: the issues that are going on in this country. We've
Speaker 3: got to address these issues. And as you know, I
Speaker 3: put fifty kids through the Kennedy School at Harvard, and
Speaker 3: these are young people from underserved communities that I paid
Speaker 3: for the whole education, and they are now so successful.
Speaker 4: But this is something that we have to do.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about another sport that you have been
Speaker 1: involved with.
Speaker 4: Yes, your daughter, as you.
Speaker 1: Mentioned, was a champion equestrian, which is a very inexpensive sport.
Speaker 3: Right, if anyone wants to buy some horses, I've got
Speaker 3: a few there.
Speaker 1: One time, your daughter says to you, why don't you
Speaker 1: get on a horse and ride.
Speaker 3: What happened then, Well, we were out riding one day
Speaker 3: and then she was saying, mommy got to learn to
Speaker 3: jump over the logs and everything. So we went back
Speaker 3: into the indoor arena and she was showing me how
Speaker 3: to do it, and I don't know whether the horse
Speaker 3: got stung by a bee or what happened. But I
Speaker 3: got bucked off and she kept yelling let go of
Speaker 3: the reins, which I didn't do, and the horse stepped
Speaker 3: on this side of my body and I could hear
Speaker 3: crunch all in. My ribs on front and back are broken,
Speaker 3: and I was taken. I was in the hospital for
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks. Missed my heart by about an inch.
Speaker 2: So you're putting back on a horse since then?
Speaker 4: Never, I would never do it.
Speaker 3: I just laid there on the ground and the horse
Speaker 3: kept nudging me, and I just said, God, if you
Speaker 3: just let me live, I will never get back on
Speaker 3: another horse.
Speaker 2: Then.
Speaker 1: Well, but you have been helping horses in one sense.
Speaker 1: There's a stable on the National Mall, right, That is
Speaker 1: the stable that the park I guess park rangers usual
Speaker 1: the US Park US Park Police hues for the horses
Speaker 1: that they have up and down the mall. So who
Speaker 1: came to you and said, guess what, we need new
Speaker 1: stables and you should put up the money.
Speaker 3: No, As you know, I joined the board of the
Speaker 3: trust for the National Mall and they were giving me
Speaker 3: the low down on you and everything that you've put
Speaker 3: into our wonderful front yard, and all of a sudden
Speaker 3: I heard horses in the background, and I said, what's
Speaker 3: over there? And they said, well's for the US park
Speaker 3: Police horses, aren't I said, well, where are they? I'd
Speaker 3: like to take a look at and they said, you
Speaker 3: really don't need to.
Speaker 4: Look at that.
Speaker 3: And I know Catherine Townsend's here and she's going to
Speaker 3: cut my throat when I say this, but I did
Speaker 3: go over there and I said, you know, this is
Speaker 3: what I want to do. We had the park lea
Speaker 3: in trailers or whatever you call them. It was terrible,
Speaker 3: and the horses were really in unsanitary conditions as far
Speaker 3: as I was concerned of what I'm used to. Catherine,
Speaker 3: don't get mad at me. But anyway, I just said,
Speaker 3: this is going to be my project and this is
Speaker 3: what I want to do. So now, if you go
Speaker 3: on to the mall right, I don't know how many
Speaker 3: hundreds of feet down from the Lincoln Monument, you see
Speaker 3: the most incredible stables for these horses, and they're out there.
Speaker 3: One of my horses, Chief is right there.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 4: So it was my job.
Speaker 3: To raise the I guess was thirty million dollars to
Speaker 3: get that thing up, and we did it and it
Speaker 3: is just amazing.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you what's next for Shielda Johnson. Are
Speaker 1: you going to run for office? You're going to become
Speaker 1: a cabinet officer and ambassador anything.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna continue to focus on my company and
Speaker 3: try to help encourage so many women and especially young
Speaker 3: women out there, to really find themselves.
Speaker 4: I want to read something to you, Okay, to the audience.
Speaker 3: Sixteen and a half years ago, it's really now. Seventeen
Speaker 3: had passed since my divorce from Bob, exactly half the
Speaker 3: time we had been together.
Speaker 4: I was finally free.
Speaker 3: If I could go back in time and talk to
Speaker 3: my younger self, I would tell her this, Trust your instincts.
Speaker 3: Get to know who you are before you give yourself
Speaker 3: to someone else. Believe that you can find happiness and
Speaker 3: that you deserve it. You're going to be Okay.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You
Speaker 1: can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or
Speaker 1: wherever you listen.