WEBVTT - Bonnethead Sharks Are Sweet Babies 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:10.520 Welcome to Creature feature production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:12.120 I'm your host of Many. 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:17.040 Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:21.200 today on the show, we are continuing hount Sharks Summer 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:25.840 with a special guest who is a shark biologist and expert, 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:29.400 and we are going to learn a lot about sharks 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:33.519 about life. So welcome to the show. The co founder 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:37.280 of Minorities in Shark Sciences and author of the new 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:41.800 autobiographical book Sharks Don't Sink, Jasmine Graham. 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:45.519 Welcome, Hello, Thanks for having me. So. 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:52.400 I really love how your book combines both science and 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:55.760 your life story. So like you weave together tales of 0:00:55.880 --> 0:01:02.080 field research, amazing sharks, science and facts, and your own experience, 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:06.759 your life story. So for this interview, I definitely want 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:10.520 to talk about both things. So first of all, I mean, 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:15.600 I think I and probably all of my listeners love sharks, 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:20.760 so there's no need to, you know, try to justify 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:23.880 why one would love sharks. But what did draw you 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:26.800 to sharks as a focus of research. 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:30.360 Well, I always was interested in the ocean. I grew 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:33.040 up fishing with my dad and so the ocean was 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:36.720 always a big part of my life. And then I 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:39.280 found out in high school you could get paid to 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:41.760 study fish, and I was like, that sounds like the 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:45.600 coolest job ever. I guess I'll do that, And so 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:49.800 I went to college for marine biology. And I tried 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:52.840 a lot of different things while I was in college, 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:56.600 but what stuck was sharks. And how I first got 0:01:56.640 --> 0:02:00.400 introduced to sharks was a total accident. It's what I 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:04.080 call a scientific meat cute where I had this moment 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:08.760 where I was walking down the hallway and turned a 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:11.240 corner and literally ran into a professor. 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:14.400 I thought, you're going to study sharks, so you ran 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:15.559 into a shark. 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:18.280 In a shark in a hallway, and not. 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:19.200 Shark in a hallway. 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:22.840 The elevator doors are closing and a shark sticks a 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:23.920 fin in and lets you in. 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:27.480 I guess, in a way, I did run into a 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:32.040 shark because I ran into doctor Gavin Taylor. Papers went flying, 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:35.079 and then I started picking them up and I started 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:38.040 seeing all of these images of these really cool CT 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:43.240 scans of sharks, and I was like, whoa, these are awesome. 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:45.600 And I was asking him about it, and he was 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:49.000 telling me about his research and how he is studying 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:54.480 how sharks evolve and their adaptations and kind of just 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:57.120 talking about how old they are and all of these 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:00.360 cool things that he's learning about them, trying to build 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:03.840 this tree of life of sharks, and I was just 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:06.520 kind of like, that sounds super awesome. I want to 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:10.480 do that. And so he reached out to me a 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:13.760 couple of months later and said, I actually have some 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:18.320 funding and an opening in my lab for an undergraduate researcher, 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:22.359 and so then I started working with him with sharks, 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:26.680 and that's just where I stayed because honestly, sharks are 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:29.880 super cool. Just from seeing a couple of CT scans 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:32.520 and listening to this man geek out about sharks for 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.040 five minutes in the hallway, I fell in love. 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:39.840 I do not blame you. Sharks are incredibly cool. 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:43.680 Can you talk a little bit about your favorite shark 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:45.120 and what it means to you. 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:50.320 So my favorite shark is the bonnethead shark, and I 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:53.400 love them for several reasons. One because it's the first 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.120 shark species that I got to work with in a 0:03:56.160 --> 0:04:01.400 scientific setting, so that was pretty cool too. They're just 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:06.680 super cute. There are multiple bonnet head pictures in the book. 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:09.480 Because I just need people to know how cute they are. 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:13.720 They look like they're wearing little tiny hats. They're often 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:19.120 swimming around kind of in a very confused way, and 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:23.520 they're just adorable. And the third reason is they were 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:27.359 the first shark discovered to be omnivorous, so they actually 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:32.279 eat plants and animals. Actually, sea grass makes up forty 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:35.800 to sixty percent of their diet, and so I think 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.320 it's really cool that there's a shark out there that 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:43.400 actually eats more plants than animals in some situations. 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:47.000 That is really cool. That sounds like they're the bears 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:50.239 of the sea. How big are bonnet sharks. 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:56.920 They're very small. They're like they max out between three 0:04:56.960 --> 0:05:01.800 and four feet. Oh, babies, they're small, the little baby guys. 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:06.080 I of all the animals that I know that you 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:09.920 can't do this, but I do want to, like pick 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:12.520 up a shark in my arms and hold it like 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:16.400 a baby, because their faces to me, are so cute, 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:19.919 the little, the little just the little downturned mouths, the 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:23.280 big eyes. I have a I have a hard time 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:27.320 understanding why people don't find them cute. 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:34.360 Honestly, Yeah, I mean thresher sharks. Their faces are so cute. 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:37.080 They just look alarmed all the time. I know, they 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:38.120 just look frightened. 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:41.279 I want to carry one around in a baby born 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:46.000 if that wasn't, you know, incredibly harmful to the shark. 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.720 But yeah, that's so interesting, and you have you done 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:52.159 research on bonnet sharks. 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:59.400 I have. Yeah. So for my undergraphic research, I focused 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.560 on a small all part of the Tree of Life 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.640 project for sharks and rays, and I focus specifically on 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:09.200 the hammerhead family. So I was looking at all ten 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:11.920 speeches of hammerheads, which a lot of people don't know 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:14.719 that there are ten speeches of hammerheads. Sometimes people think 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:17.599 that hammerheads are just like one species, one. 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:22.239 Guy, one shark that's got a like an actual hammer. 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:30.280 Yeah. So I studied all of them, bonnettheads included. And 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:35.200 then I got to co advise a master student who 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:39.760 studied bonnethead sharks and their head shapes, and I talk 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.280 about that a lot in the book. And the head 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:46.080 shapes are super cool for bonnet heeads because they exhibit 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:50.400 what's called sexual dimorphism, which is where males and females 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:54.719 look different. And that's super cool that their heads look 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:58.520 different if you're a male versus a female bonnetthead shark 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:04.120 because that's super weird. What a weird thing that is 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:06.360 different between males and females, But it. 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:10.640 Is imagine if for humans, if women were going around 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:14.000 with triangle heads and men were going around with square heads. 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:18.760 I don't know, we'd probably find whole new ways to 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:21.920 make society sexist based on like, well, you know, with 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:25.560 the triangle head, you know, obviously you can't be president. 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:27.680 Yeah. 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:28.920 One thing also in. 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:32.160 The book that is really interesting, but also you know, 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:35.400 kind of I think painful, is like discussing the challenges 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:41.120 that you face in marine biology, particularly as a black woman. 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:44.640 Can you talk a little bit about how you approached 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:50.480 these challenges and what like what they were, what you face, 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:53.960 which you know, really likely the only challenges in research 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:57.520 should be you know, hey, are my you know notes 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:00.400 getting wet because I'm on a boat. But no, there's 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.120 a lot of actual social challenges that you faced. 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:08.480 Yeah. Science is interesting because people feel like science should 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:12.960 be a place where we don't have human problems, because 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:17.640 people see scientists as these like objective beings that don't 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:20.680 have any bias and all of these things. But that's 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:25.640 not true. Scientists are people just like anyone else. And 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:30.880 so therefore science has some society issues creep into it. 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:35.840 And so a lot of those issues come up in 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:40.840 science settings when it's people interacting with other people. And 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.800 so that is something that I found to be a challenge, 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:50.480 mostly in the sense of people look at me and 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:53.520 they don't expect me to be a scientist, and so 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:57.360 therefore there's this, oh, you need to prove yourself because 0:08:57.360 --> 0:08:59.520 we don't feel like you belong here because you don't 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:02.000 look like scientists. I've actually had a lot of people 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.640 say that, like, oh, you know, it looks like a scientist, 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:07.199 and then I asked the question, what does a scientist 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:11.240 look like? Right, and then they get very uncomfortable. They 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:17.280 should yes, that is my bias creeping out. And so 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:21.480 I think that that is, in and of itself, something 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:24.480 where you have this sort of doubt when you come 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:29.000 into a room, or when you submit a paper, or 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:33.600 when you're submitting a grant proposal, that people have these 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:37.000 preconceived notions about what a scientist is and what a 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:39.440 scientist looks like, and what they do and don't do. 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:46.040 And so that's a challenge. And then there's more egregious things, 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:50.800 of course, because people sometimes are terrible, but a lot 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:55.480 of it is people that the heart I would say 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:59.280 the hardest thing is people that believe that they don't 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:04.400 have bias, and then they walk around like I had 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:07.320 a talking about yeah, that's why I said that, like 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:11.079 it I would have assumed that anybody was a custodian 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:17.000 and I'm like, would you know, or like they'll be like, oh, 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:22.680 it's just because you're young, is it? And so that's 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:25.080 that's the harder thing to deal with because whenever you 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:29.959 have somebody that's like blatantly and openly causic issues, then 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:33.280 it's a little easier to pinpoint. But there's often a 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:36.120 lot of times where people, you know, say well, I 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:39.400 don't think they meant it like that, or maybe you 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:42.839 took it the wrong way or that other stuff where 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:45.720 it's sort of like, I don't believe that this is 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:48.680 actually a thing that is happening a lot. I don't 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:50.839 believe that bias played into this. 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:54.440 It's like a lot of defensiveness. So not only is 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:58.320 it awkward or uncomfortable because it's like, hey, you just 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:03.040 kind of assume something about me and that it's also like, oh, 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:05.800 now you have to deal with someone being really defensive 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:08.679 like oh no, no, no, I'm not sexist, I'm not racist, 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:09.120 you know. 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.640 Yeah, yeah, for sure, it's a big thing. And then 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:18.680 there's also other issues with marine science in particular because 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:22.120 a lot of times you are on boats or in 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.560 very remote locations and you're stuck with the same people 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:29.120 for a long amount of time. And it's not like 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:31.400 a normal nine to five where you're like, cool, I 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:33.439 only have to deal with this for eight hours and 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:37.000 then I walk away. I mean, sometimes it's weeks of 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:40.040 you have to spend time with these people for a 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:44.160 really long time. There's all sorts of weird power dynamics 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:48.000 at play where sometimes people don't feel comfortable speaking out 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:52.000 about things, especially things like sexual harassment and stuff like that, 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:56.680 especially if you are as in a position of less 0:11:56.800 --> 0:12:00.440 power and you would have to challenge some body that 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:05.040 has more power than you. It creates really awkward situations. 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:10.120 Yeah, I mean, I imagine that is especially profound on a boat. 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.000 Like in academia, it's it's a huge problem. And then 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:16.760 you take all of these social complexities and problems of 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:19.800 academia and then you put it on like a platform 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:21.720 that is floating in the middle of the ocean that 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:23.160 seems really challenging. 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:25.680 Yeah, for sure. 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:29.760 Do you have any advice that you would give young 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:33.559 people who are really interested in marine biology but they 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:37.200 are concerned about these things, like you know, maybe they're 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:40.400 a minority, maybe they are worried that the field is 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:44.720 going to be really really challenging because of these assumptions 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:48.080 that like people make about what a scientist should be. 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:54.800 Yeah. I mean what I've always done is I always 0:12:54.880 --> 0:13:00.480 remind myself that there are people who want to help, 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:04.679 and there are people who can be really good allies 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:07.840 and friends in the field, and if you surround yourself 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:11.760 with those people, then you have this sort of buffer 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:15.680 where hopefully you don't have to be the one to 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:19.200 put yourself at risk to say something to somebody that 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.120 has more power than you or something like that, because 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:24.760 you have other people in your corner that will speak 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:28.800 out on your behalf. And those people do exist, and 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:33.600 they are very prominent, and they usually make themselves very clear. 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:39.880 They're very easy to spot speacon of light where you're like, ah, yes, 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:43.520 you seem awesome, let's hang out. I want you in 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.320 my circle, and like people that just hype you up 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:50.959 because whenever you are constantly getting these like little tiny 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:55.800 knock downs. It's really helpful to have someone that's constantly 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:58.640 boosting you up so that you know you can keep 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:02.680 your spirits high, keep your confidence up. I think the 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.760 best way to fight imposter syndrome is to have people 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:08.400 constantly tell you that you belong here and you're doing 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:12.000 a great job. And having hype people having a heightened 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:17.319 squad really helpful. The other thing I think is whenever 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:23.960 people whatever, people maliciously try to make other people seem small, 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:28.120 the best response is to be bigger and take up 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:33.080 more space because they're trying to nudge you out, and 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:37.720 so the best defense is offense to just be bigger, 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:43.400 be bolder, like don't shrink away. I think sometimes people 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:46.000 when they come into a space and they feel like 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:50.640 they aren't being valued or they're worried about being the 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.720 only person like them and having this sort of Oh, 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:55.880 I have to keep proving myself over and over and 0:14:55.920 --> 0:15:00.600 over again. Whenever I get in those situations, just walk 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.080 in with all of the authority in the world, even 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:05.880 if I even if I'm in my head kind of 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:11.400 like ah, I feel like I am an imposter facing 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:14.680 I'm like, yeah, I'm Jasmine Graham and I'm a shark 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:17.040 site because I'm an expert in this field and I 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:19.760 know what I'm talking about and everything is great. And 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:24.560 then if anyone challenges that, I can say, well, you're wrong, yeah, 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:28.680 because I do belong here. And even if you just 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:33.120 say it, you say it enough, other people tell you enough, 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:36.160 and then you feel it. You feel like you can 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:39.880 walk into situations with your head held high and take 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:43.840 up space. And the most important thing is to not 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:48.480 let people like that win. And you let them win 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:52.800 whenever you get small. So you gotta stand your stand 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:53.680 your ground. 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:56.080 I love. That's really really good advice. 0:15:56.320 --> 0:16:00.240 I mean, that's that's good advice, and probably everywhere I've 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:05.160 not just in science, but yeah, I mean I do. 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:06.440 I can't help but. 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:10.280 Always try to relate sort of be like human psychology 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.320 back to back to animals, because that's what this show is. 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:15.880 I don't necessarily know enough about. 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:17.960 Shark behavior to say that sharks would also do this, 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:21.320 but like really like when they are being threatened or 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:23.840 being intimidated, really trying to kind of like say like. 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:25.920 No, no, no, I am I am coming. 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:28.720 I am a shark, and I'm tough and I'm cool 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:32.760 and like, don't bother me, even though inside sharks might 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:34.160 actually be quite scared. 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:36.720 Yeah, I mean a lot of animals do this. Some 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:41.520 animals do this quite literally. I mean porcupines put up 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:47.680 their spines, puffer fish puff up. There's like snakes swelled, 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:52.360 like there's this natural like something is threatening me. Be bigger. 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:56.800 It's sort of a natural instinct of animals like well, 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:01.120 if I'm bigger, then maybe they'll think it's about messing 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:06.720 with me. And so having that attitude of people love 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:09.800 to punch down, you know, like you know, people are 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:14.080 always going after people that they feel like they can 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:18.679 push around, and as soon as you stand your grounds, 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:21.879 they're like, oh this is not a person to be 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:26.760 trifled with. Let me go away. And that's what happens 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:31.399 in the animal kingdom. Is no animal wants to hunt 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:33.879 prey that's going to fight back. 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:36.200 Yeah, Like that is not what. 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:38.880 They want to do. If they have a choice between 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:43.359 like a sleeping rat and a king cobra, they're going 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:47.159 to go for the rat. Like I don't want to 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:52.679 fight a king cobra. I might lose. So yeah, just 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:56.760 being big and helping people see like oh you think 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.560 you're about to punch down, but really you're punching up. 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:02.960 Yeah, And they're like, ah, yeah, maybe I want to 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:03.239 do that. 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:07.320 Yeah yeah, maybe maybe maybe think twice about eating that 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:14.040 pufferfish that now is a big spiky balloon. You mentioned 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:17.800 earlier that the bonnehead sharks like swim around like they 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:19.520 don't know where they're they're going. 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:21.960 Can you expand on that? 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.560 Why Why do they swim around in sort of this 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:25.280 awkward way. 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:32.800 That's a really good question. I don't know. Some sharks 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:36.240 are just There are some sharks that are really like, 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:40.840 I'm an excellent navigator, I know where I'm going, I have, 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:45.359 you know, all of these skills to avoid being eaten 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:50.280 or to hunt or whatever. And then there's boneheads who, 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:54.959 for some reason like they just were like, I don't know, 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:57.159 I guess I'm just gonna go over here, and then 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:00.439 I'm gonna go over here, and just kind of I 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:03.200 think that's because of how they live their lives. They're 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:06.160 kind of just swimming through seagrass looking for a little 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:10.360 crabs and crustations. They're not really going after like tuna 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:12.520 or something like that. Right, they don't need to be 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:16.639 like out smarting prey necessarily, they're kind of just like 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:19.159 yum yum yumps. 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:20.679 They're enjoying. 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:23.680 So they just live this like what's the life where 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:26.600 they're just like I'm just swimming through the sea grass, 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:29.440 I'm gonna have a little salad and I'm gonna have 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:32.680 a little shrimp, and I'm just gonna like move on 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:36.200 with my life, whereas I feel like other sharks are 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:41.280 either like getting hunted down my other sharks a lot, 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:45.600 or they are like having to, you know, get prey 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:50.000 that is fast or sneaky or camouflaged and you know 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:53.840 all of these things. I think that bonnet heads they 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:57.280 just tend to have very easy lives and so they're 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:02.000 like natural instincts, maybe not as keen as some other 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:04.879 sharks that are out there in like the rough and 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:07.840 tumble of the deep sea where everything is trying to 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:11.240 kill you. Bonnet Heads are just kind of like, I 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:16.479 don't know, you've tagged me, and I don't know. I 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:19.800 feel like I didn't quite like that. But what if 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:24.600 I just swam right back into your head? Because that 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:27.000 and then I want to go that way. I know 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:28.919 that the last time I went that way, I was 0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:31.560 in a net right and then you let me go. 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:33.679 But maybe this time, I think I'm. 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:35.280 Just gonna swim back that way. 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:38.199 Let's try it to get yeah this time, maybe this 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:40.880 time there will be a nice snack rather than being 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:43.520 in a net. Oh a net again. Well, third time's 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:49.480 the charm. Yeah, exactly, that's really cute. I'm really being 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:53.000 sold on these bonnet heead sharks. That's I love that 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:59.080 they're just out there scrounging around having girl dinner. I 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:01.840 when I am left my own devices, like, if there's 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:05.199 not another human being to enforce me to have a 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:10.080 normal human dinner, I will do bon ahead sharks stuff. 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:12.680 I'll just be like, I don't know, maybe some pasta. 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:17.479 Are these you know, potato chips still good? They're like 0:21:17.560 --> 0:21:20.679 under the counter. I don't know, just a little, this 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:23.880 little bit. But it is really fascinating that they are. 0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:27.360 Are they the only shark species we know of that 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:32.960 is omnivorous or are they just more more omnivorous than 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:35.000 other sharks. 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:40.000 So recently, scientists figured out that whale sharks are actually 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:43.080 digesting a lot of the algae that they suck in 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:45.600 with their mouths while they're getting planked in and stuff. 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:49.919 So whale sharks are also omnivorous, but whale sharks are 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:52.360 a little different because they're passive feeders. So it's kind 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:55.119 of just like, yeah, you got some plants in your. 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:57.720 Mouth by accident, and big whoop. 0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:00.960 You figured out a way to die. Just it good 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:04.639 for you, Yeah, Whereas I mean you open up like 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:12.240 a bonnet head shark stomach and it's just like grass grass. 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:15.119 Yeah, that's so interesting. 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:18.240 Yeah, I mean, and so they they're all it's almost 0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:22.240 as if they are they could say, if they continued 0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:26.320 on for millions of years, like they could completely turn. 0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:29.280 To be herbivores. 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:35.399 Yeah, I mean, so that's something that's really interesting about 0:22:35.400 --> 0:22:37.480 bonnet heeads and one of the reasons why we're really 0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:41.000 interested in this idea of them being omnivorous and like 0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:45.240 a huge percentage of their diet being sea grass, because 0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:50.280 there's two sides to this, like one, do they need 0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:55.360 sea grass to like have a balanced diet, Like are 0:22:55.400 --> 0:23:00.159 they going to perform or if they don't eat a 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:03.320 lot of sea grass. And that's an important question because 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:07.960 our seagrass beds are going away, and so if we 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:11.840 lose sea grass, is that detrimental to the bonnet heads 0:23:11.920 --> 0:23:14.679 or are they kind of just like filling in with 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:18.480 sea grass? And then on the other side of that, well, 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:25.119 if there's a shortage of meat options, like let's say 0:23:25.240 --> 0:23:29.679 the like entire shrimp population goes away, or like we 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:33.720 have a huge decline of the fish, Like, will they 0:23:33.840 --> 0:23:37.040 just be like, Okay, I guess I'll just eat vegetables. 0:23:37.080 --> 0:23:39.679 It's like, do you need both of those right to 0:23:39.760 --> 0:23:44.520 be healthy? Or like if you lost one, could you 0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:48.040 just totally just only eat the other thing? Like is 0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:52.480 there a reason why you're eating both? Because you know, 0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:56.800 like people whenever we go like vegetarian or vegan, like 0:23:56.840 --> 0:23:59.359 you have to be very specific about what you eat 0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:03.800 because there's certain nutrients that you get from meat, and 0:24:03.920 --> 0:24:07.879 if you aren't diligent about getting those in the specific 0:24:07.960 --> 0:24:11.280 other foods that you eat, then bad things can happen. 0:24:12.560 --> 0:24:15.560 Is it the same for bonnet heeads? Or could bonnet 0:24:15.600 --> 0:24:19.080 heeads just totally just survive off of seagrass without any 0:24:19.119 --> 0:24:22.439 other nutritional output or vice versa. 0:24:23.080 --> 0:24:27.000 Are they obligate surf and turf eaters or is this 0:24:27.160 --> 0:24:28.600 by choice? 0:24:29.119 --> 0:24:29.359 Yeah? 0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:31.919 That is exactly that is really fascinating. 0:24:32.119 --> 0:24:35.600 I'm always interested in like these evolutionary histories of animals 0:24:35.600 --> 0:24:38.320 that like they started out maybe as herbivores, then they 0:24:38.359 --> 0:24:41.120 became carnivores, but then they went back to being herbivores. 0:24:41.280 --> 0:24:46.680 Like panda bears are really interesting, right, like they maybe 0:24:46.720 --> 0:24:50.719 not entirely carnivores, but at least heavily carnivores with some 0:24:50.800 --> 0:24:51.800 omnivorous traits. 0:24:51.800 --> 0:24:52.440