Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature feature production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: I'm your host of Many.
Speaker 1: Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, and
Speaker 1: today on the show, we are continuing hount Sharks Summer
Speaker 1: with a special guest who is a shark biologist and expert,
Speaker 1: and we are going to learn a lot about sharks
Speaker 1: about life. So welcome to the show. The co founder
Speaker 1: of Minorities in Shark Sciences and author of the new
Speaker 1: autobiographical book Sharks Don't Sink, Jasmine Graham.
Speaker 3: Welcome, Hello, Thanks for having me. So.
Speaker 1: I really love how your book combines both science and
Speaker 1: your life story. So like you weave together tales of
Speaker 1: field research, amazing sharks, science and facts, and your own experience,
Speaker 1: your life story. So for this interview, I definitely want
Speaker 1: to talk about both things. So first of all, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think I and probably all of my listeners love sharks,
Speaker 1: so there's no need to, you know, try to justify
Speaker 1: why one would love sharks. But what did draw you
Speaker 1: to sharks as a focus of research.
Speaker 3: Well, I always was interested in the ocean. I grew
Speaker 3: up fishing with my dad and so the ocean was
Speaker 3: always a big part of my life. And then I
Speaker 3: found out in high school you could get paid to
Speaker 3: study fish, and I was like, that sounds like the
Speaker 3: coolest job ever. I guess I'll do that, And so
Speaker 3: I went to college for marine biology. And I tried
Speaker 3: a lot of different things while I was in college,
Speaker 3: but what stuck was sharks. And how I first got
Speaker 3: introduced to sharks was a total accident. It's what I
Speaker 3: call a scientific meat cute where I had this moment
Speaker 3: where I was walking down the hallway and turned a
Speaker 3: corner and literally ran into a professor.
Speaker 2: I thought, you're going to study sharks, so you ran
Speaker 2: into a shark.
Speaker 3: In a shark in a hallway, and not.
Speaker 2: Shark in a hallway.
Speaker 1: The elevator doors are closing and a shark sticks a
Speaker 1: fin in and lets you in.
Speaker 3: I guess, in a way, I did run into a
Speaker 3: shark because I ran into doctor Gavin Taylor. Papers went flying,
Speaker 3: and then I started picking them up and I started
Speaker 3: seeing all of these images of these really cool CT
Speaker 3: scans of sharks, and I was like, whoa, these are awesome.
Speaker 3: And I was asking him about it, and he was
Speaker 3: telling me about his research and how he is studying
Speaker 3: how sharks evolve and their adaptations and kind of just
Speaker 3: talking about how old they are and all of these
Speaker 3: cool things that he's learning about them, trying to build
Speaker 3: this tree of life of sharks, and I was just
Speaker 3: kind of like, that sounds super awesome. I want to
Speaker 3: do that. And so he reached out to me a
Speaker 3: couple of months later and said, I actually have some
Speaker 3: funding and an opening in my lab for an undergraduate researcher,
Speaker 3: and so then I started working with him with sharks,
Speaker 3: and that's just where I stayed because honestly, sharks are
Speaker 3: super cool. Just from seeing a couple of CT scans
Speaker 3: and listening to this man geek out about sharks for
Speaker 3: five minutes in the hallway, I fell in love.
Speaker 2: I do not blame you. Sharks are incredibly cool.
Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about your favorite shark
Speaker 1: and what it means to you.
Speaker 3: So my favorite shark is the bonnethead shark, and I
Speaker 3: love them for several reasons. One because it's the first
Speaker 3: shark species that I got to work with in a
Speaker 3: scientific setting, so that was pretty cool too. They're just
Speaker 3: super cute. There are multiple bonnet head pictures in the book.
Speaker 3: Because I just need people to know how cute they are.
Speaker 3: They look like they're wearing little tiny hats. They're often
Speaker 3: swimming around kind of in a very confused way, and
Speaker 3: they're just adorable. And the third reason is they were
Speaker 3: the first shark discovered to be omnivorous, so they actually
Speaker 3: eat plants and animals. Actually, sea grass makes up forty
Speaker 3: to sixty percent of their diet, and so I think
Speaker 3: it's really cool that there's a shark out there that
Speaker 3: actually eats more plants than animals in some situations.
Speaker 1: That is really cool. That sounds like they're the bears
Speaker 1: of the sea. How big are bonnet sharks.
Speaker 3: They're very small. They're like they max out between three
Speaker 3: and four feet. Oh, babies, they're small, the little baby guys.
Speaker 1: I of all the animals that I know that you
Speaker 1: can't do this, but I do want to, like pick
Speaker 1: up a shark in my arms and hold it like
Speaker 1: a baby, because their faces to me, are so cute,
Speaker 1: the little, the little just the little downturned mouths, the
Speaker 1: big eyes. I have a I have a hard time
Speaker 1: understanding why people don't find them cute.
Speaker 3: Honestly, Yeah, I mean thresher sharks. Their faces are so cute.
Speaker 3: They just look alarmed all the time. I know, they
Speaker 3: just look frightened.
Speaker 1: I want to carry one around in a baby born
Speaker 1: if that wasn't, you know, incredibly harmful to the shark.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's so interesting, and you have you done
Speaker 1: research on bonnet sharks.
Speaker 3: I have. Yeah. So for my undergraphic research, I focused
Speaker 3: on a small all part of the Tree of Life
Speaker 3: project for sharks and rays, and I focus specifically on
Speaker 3: the hammerhead family. So I was looking at all ten
Speaker 3: speeches of hammerheads, which a lot of people don't know
Speaker 3: that there are ten speeches of hammerheads. Sometimes people think
Speaker 3: that hammerheads are just like one species, one.
Speaker 1: Guy, one shark that's got a like an actual hammer.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I studied all of them, bonnettheads included. And
Speaker 3: then I got to co advise a master student who
Speaker 3: studied bonnethead sharks and their head shapes, and I talk
Speaker 3: about that a lot in the book. And the head
Speaker 3: shapes are super cool for bonnet heeads because they exhibit
Speaker 3: what's called sexual dimorphism, which is where males and females
Speaker 3: look different. And that's super cool that their heads look
Speaker 3: different if you're a male versus a female bonnetthead shark
Speaker 3: because that's super weird. What a weird thing that is
Speaker 3: different between males and females, But it.
Speaker 1: Is imagine if for humans, if women were going around
Speaker 1: with triangle heads and men were going around with square heads.
Speaker 1: I don't know, we'd probably find whole new ways to
Speaker 1: make society sexist based on like, well, you know, with
Speaker 1: the triangle head, you know, obviously you can't be president.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: One thing also in.
Speaker 1: The book that is really interesting, but also you know,
Speaker 1: kind of I think painful, is like discussing the challenges
Speaker 1: that you face in marine biology, particularly as a black woman.
Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about how you approached
Speaker 1: these challenges and what like what they were, what you face,
Speaker 1: which you know, really likely the only challenges in research
Speaker 1: should be you know, hey, are my you know notes
Speaker 1: getting wet because I'm on a boat. But no, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of actual social challenges that you faced.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Science is interesting because people feel like science should
Speaker 3: be a place where we don't have human problems, because
Speaker 3: people see scientists as these like objective beings that don't
Speaker 3: have any bias and all of these things. But that's
Speaker 3: not true. Scientists are people just like anyone else. And
Speaker 3: so therefore science has some society issues creep into it.
Speaker 3: And so a lot of those issues come up in
Speaker 3: science settings when it's people interacting with other people. And
Speaker 3: so that is something that I found to be a challenge,
Speaker 3: mostly in the sense of people look at me and
Speaker 3: they don't expect me to be a scientist, and so
Speaker 3: therefore there's this, oh, you need to prove yourself because
Speaker 3: we don't feel like you belong here because you don't
Speaker 3: look like scientists. I've actually had a lot of people
Speaker 3: say that, like, oh, you know, it looks like a scientist,
Speaker 3: and then I asked the question, what does a scientist
Speaker 3: look like? Right, and then they get very uncomfortable. They
Speaker 3: should yes, that is my bias creeping out. And so
Speaker 3: I think that that is, in and of itself, something
Speaker 3: where you have this sort of doubt when you come
Speaker 3: into a room, or when you submit a paper, or
Speaker 3: when you're submitting a grant proposal, that people have these
Speaker 3: preconceived notions about what a scientist is and what a
Speaker 3: scientist looks like, and what they do and don't do.
Speaker 3: And so that's a challenge. And then there's more egregious things,
Speaker 3: of course, because people sometimes are terrible, but a lot
Speaker 3: of it is people that the heart I would say
Speaker 3: the hardest thing is people that believe that they don't
Speaker 3: have bias, and then they walk around like I had
Speaker 3: a talking about yeah, that's why I said that, like
Speaker 3: it I would have assumed that anybody was a custodian
Speaker 3: and I'm like, would you know, or like they'll be like, oh,
Speaker 3: it's just because you're young, is it? And so that's
Speaker 3: that's the harder thing to deal with because whenever you
Speaker 3: have somebody that's like blatantly and openly causic issues, then
Speaker 3: it's a little easier to pinpoint. But there's often a
Speaker 3: lot of times where people, you know, say well, I
Speaker 3: don't think they meant it like that, or maybe you
Speaker 3: took it the wrong way or that other stuff where
Speaker 3: it's sort of like, I don't believe that this is
Speaker 3: actually a thing that is happening a lot. I don't
Speaker 3: believe that bias played into this.
Speaker 1: It's like a lot of defensiveness. So not only is
Speaker 1: it awkward or uncomfortable because it's like, hey, you just
Speaker 1: kind of assume something about me and that it's also like, oh,
Speaker 1: now you have to deal with someone being really defensive
Speaker 1: like oh no, no, no, I'm not sexist, I'm not racist,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure, it's a big thing. And then
Speaker 3: there's also other issues with marine science in particular because
Speaker 3: a lot of times you are on boats or in
Speaker 3: very remote locations and you're stuck with the same people
Speaker 3: for a long amount of time. And it's not like
Speaker 3: a normal nine to five where you're like, cool, I
Speaker 3: only have to deal with this for eight hours and
Speaker 3: then I walk away. I mean, sometimes it's weeks of
Speaker 3: you have to spend time with these people for a
Speaker 3: really long time. There's all sorts of weird power dynamics
Speaker 3: at play where sometimes people don't feel comfortable speaking out
Speaker 3: about things, especially things like sexual harassment and stuff like that,
Speaker 3: especially if you are as in a position of less
Speaker 3: power and you would have to challenge some body that
Speaker 3: has more power than you. It creates really awkward situations.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I imagine that is especially profound on a boat.
Speaker 1: Like in academia, it's it's a huge problem. And then
Speaker 1: you take all of these social complexities and problems of
Speaker 1: academia and then you put it on like a platform
Speaker 1: that is floating in the middle of the ocean that
Speaker 1: seems really challenging.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: Do you have any advice that you would give young
Speaker 1: people who are really interested in marine biology but they
Speaker 1: are concerned about these things, like you know, maybe they're
Speaker 1: a minority, maybe they are worried that the field is
Speaker 1: going to be really really challenging because of these assumptions
Speaker 1: that like people make about what a scientist should be.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean what I've always done is I always
Speaker 3: remind myself that there are people who want to help,
Speaker 3: and there are people who can be really good allies
Speaker 3: and friends in the field, and if you surround yourself
Speaker 3: with those people, then you have this sort of buffer
Speaker 3: where hopefully you don't have to be the one to
Speaker 3: put yourself at risk to say something to somebody that
Speaker 3: has more power than you or something like that, because
Speaker 3: you have other people in your corner that will speak
Speaker 3: out on your behalf. And those people do exist, and
Speaker 3: they are very prominent, and they usually make themselves very clear.
Speaker 3: They're very easy to spot speacon of light where you're like, ah, yes,
Speaker 3: you seem awesome, let's hang out. I want you in
Speaker 3: my circle, and like people that just hype you up
Speaker 3: because whenever you are constantly getting these like little tiny
Speaker 3: knock downs. It's really helpful to have someone that's constantly
Speaker 3: boosting you up so that you know you can keep
Speaker 3: your spirits high, keep your confidence up. I think the
Speaker 3: best way to fight imposter syndrome is to have people
Speaker 3: constantly tell you that you belong here and you're doing
Speaker 3: a great job. And having hype people having a heightened
Speaker 3: squad really helpful. The other thing I think is whenever
Speaker 3: people whatever, people maliciously try to make other people seem small,
Speaker 3: the best response is to be bigger and take up
Speaker 3: more space because they're trying to nudge you out, and
Speaker 3: so the best defense is offense to just be bigger,
Speaker 3: be bolder, like don't shrink away. I think sometimes people
Speaker 3: when they come into a space and they feel like
Speaker 3: they aren't being valued or they're worried about being the
Speaker 3: only person like them and having this sort of Oh,
Speaker 3: I have to keep proving myself over and over and
Speaker 3: over again. Whenever I get in those situations, just walk
Speaker 3: in with all of the authority in the world, even
Speaker 3: if I even if I'm in my head kind of
Speaker 3: like ah, I feel like I am an imposter facing
Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, I'm Jasmine Graham and I'm a shark
Speaker 3: site because I'm an expert in this field and I
Speaker 3: know what I'm talking about and everything is great. And
Speaker 3: then if anyone challenges that, I can say, well, you're wrong, yeah,
Speaker 3: because I do belong here. And even if you just
Speaker 3: say it, you say it enough, other people tell you enough,
Speaker 3: and then you feel it. You feel like you can
Speaker 3: walk into situations with your head held high and take
Speaker 3: up space. And the most important thing is to not
Speaker 3: let people like that win. And you let them win
Speaker 3: whenever you get small. So you gotta stand your stand
Speaker 3: your ground.
Speaker 2: I love. That's really really good advice.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's good advice, and probably everywhere I've
Speaker 1: not just in science, but yeah, I mean I do.
Speaker 2: I can't help but.
Speaker 1: Always try to relate sort of be like human psychology
Speaker 1: back to back to animals, because that's what this show is.
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily know enough about.
Speaker 1: Shark behavior to say that sharks would also do this,
Speaker 1: but like really like when they are being threatened or
Speaker 1: being intimidated, really trying to kind of like say like.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I am I am coming.
Speaker 1: I am a shark, and I'm tough and I'm cool
Speaker 1: and like, don't bother me, even though inside sharks might
Speaker 1: actually be quite scared.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean a lot of animals do this. Some
Speaker 3: animals do this quite literally. I mean porcupines put up
Speaker 3: their spines, puffer fish puff up. There's like snakes swelled,
Speaker 3: like there's this natural like something is threatening me. Be bigger.
Speaker 3: It's sort of a natural instinct of animals like well,
Speaker 3: if I'm bigger, then maybe they'll think it's about messing
Speaker 3: with me. And so having that attitude of people love
Speaker 3: to punch down, you know, like you know, people are
Speaker 3: always going after people that they feel like they can
Speaker 3: push around, and as soon as you stand your grounds,
Speaker 3: they're like, oh this is not a person to be
Speaker 3: trifled with. Let me go away. And that's what happens
Speaker 3: in the animal kingdom. Is no animal wants to hunt
Speaker 3: prey that's going to fight back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like that is not what.
Speaker 3: They want to do. If they have a choice between
Speaker 3: like a sleeping rat and a king cobra, they're going
Speaker 3: to go for the rat. Like I don't want to
Speaker 3: fight a king cobra. I might lose. So yeah, just
Speaker 3: being big and helping people see like oh you think
Speaker 3: you're about to punch down, but really you're punching up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And they're like, ah, yeah, maybe I want to
Speaker 2: do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, maybe maybe maybe think twice about eating that
Speaker 1: pufferfish that now is a big spiky balloon. You mentioned
Speaker 1: earlier that the bonnehead sharks like swim around like they
Speaker 1: don't know where they're they're going.
Speaker 2: Can you expand on that?
Speaker 1: Why Why do they swim around in sort of this
Speaker 1: awkward way.
Speaker 3: That's a really good question. I don't know. Some sharks
Speaker 3: are just There are some sharks that are really like,
Speaker 3: I'm an excellent navigator, I know where I'm going, I have,
Speaker 3: you know, all of these skills to avoid being eaten
Speaker 3: or to hunt or whatever. And then there's boneheads who,
Speaker 3: for some reason like they just were like, I don't know,
Speaker 3: I guess I'm just gonna go over here, and then
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go over here, and just kind of I
Speaker 3: think that's because of how they live their lives. They're
Speaker 3: kind of just swimming through seagrass looking for a little
Speaker 3: crabs and crustations. They're not really going after like tuna
Speaker 3: or something like that. Right, they don't need to be
Speaker 3: like out smarting prey necessarily, they're kind of just like
Speaker 3: yum yum yumps.
Speaker 2: They're enjoying.
Speaker 3: So they just live this like what's the life where
Speaker 3: they're just like I'm just swimming through the sea grass,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have a little salad and I'm gonna have
Speaker 3: a little shrimp, and I'm just gonna like move on
Speaker 3: with my life, whereas I feel like other sharks are
Speaker 3: either like getting hunted down my other sharks a lot,
Speaker 3: or they are like having to, you know, get prey
Speaker 3: that is fast or sneaky or camouflaged and you know
Speaker 3: all of these things. I think that bonnet heads they
Speaker 3: just tend to have very easy lives and so they're
Speaker 3: like natural instincts, maybe not as keen as some other
Speaker 3: sharks that are out there in like the rough and
Speaker 3: tumble of the deep sea where everything is trying to
Speaker 3: kill you. Bonnet Heads are just kind of like, I
Speaker 3: don't know, you've tagged me, and I don't know. I
Speaker 3: feel like I didn't quite like that. But what if
Speaker 3: I just swam right back into your head? Because that
Speaker 3: and then I want to go that way. I know
Speaker 3: that the last time I went that way, I was
Speaker 3: in a net right and then you let me go.
Speaker 2: But maybe this time, I think I'm.
Speaker 3: Just gonna swim back that way.
Speaker 1: Let's try it to get yeah this time, maybe this
Speaker 1: time there will be a nice snack rather than being
Speaker 1: in a net. Oh a net again. Well, third time's
Speaker 1: the charm. Yeah, exactly, that's really cute. I'm really being
Speaker 1: sold on these bonnet heead sharks. That's I love that
Speaker 1: they're just out there scrounging around having girl dinner. I
Speaker 1: when I am left my own devices, like, if there's
Speaker 1: not another human being to enforce me to have a
Speaker 1: normal human dinner, I will do bon ahead sharks stuff.
Speaker 1: I'll just be like, I don't know, maybe some pasta.
Speaker 1: Are these you know, potato chips still good? They're like
Speaker 1: under the counter. I don't know, just a little, this
Speaker 1: little bit. But it is really fascinating that they are.
Speaker 1: Are they the only shark species we know of that
Speaker 1: is omnivorous or are they just more more omnivorous than
Speaker 1: other sharks.
Speaker 3: So recently, scientists figured out that whale sharks are actually
Speaker 3: digesting a lot of the algae that they suck in
Speaker 3: with their mouths while they're getting planked in and stuff.
Speaker 3: So whale sharks are also omnivorous, but whale sharks are
Speaker 3: a little different because they're passive feeders. So it's kind
Speaker 3: of just like, yeah, you got some plants in your.
Speaker 2: Mouth by accident, and big whoop.
Speaker 3: You figured out a way to die. Just it good
Speaker 3: for you, Yeah, Whereas I mean you open up like
Speaker 3: a bonnet head shark stomach and it's just like grass grass.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and so they they're all it's almost
Speaker 1: as if they are they could say, if they continued
Speaker 1: on for millions of years, like they could completely turn.
Speaker 2: To be herbivores.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, so that's something that's really interesting about
Speaker 3: bonnet heeads and one of the reasons why we're really
Speaker 3: interested in this idea of them being omnivorous and like
Speaker 3: a huge percentage of their diet being sea grass, because
Speaker 3: there's two sides to this, like one, do they need
Speaker 3: sea grass to like have a balanced diet, Like are
Speaker 3: they going to perform or if they don't eat a
Speaker 3: lot of sea grass. And that's an important question because
Speaker 3: our seagrass beds are going away, and so if we
Speaker 3: lose sea grass, is that detrimental to the bonnet heads
Speaker 3: or are they kind of just like filling in with
Speaker 3: sea grass? And then on the other side of that, well,
Speaker 3: if there's a shortage of meat options, like let's say
Speaker 3: the like entire shrimp population goes away, or like we
Speaker 3: have a huge decline of the fish, Like, will they
Speaker 3: just be like, Okay, I guess I'll just eat vegetables.
Speaker 3: It's like, do you need both of those right to
Speaker 3: be healthy? Or like if you lost one, could you
Speaker 3: just totally just only eat the other thing? Like is
Speaker 3: there a reason why you're eating both? Because you know,
Speaker 3: like people whenever we go like vegetarian or vegan, like
Speaker 3: you have to be very specific about what you eat
Speaker 3: because there's certain nutrients that you get from meat, and
Speaker 3: if you aren't diligent about getting those in the specific
Speaker 3: other foods that you eat, then bad things can happen.
Speaker 3: Is it the same for bonnet heeads? Or could bonnet
Speaker 3: heeads just totally just survive off of seagrass without any
Speaker 3: other nutritional output or vice versa.
Speaker 1: Are they obligate surf and turf eaters or is this
Speaker 1: by choice?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: That is exactly that is really fascinating.
Speaker 1: I'm always interested in like these evolutionary histories of animals
Speaker 1: that like they started out maybe as herbivores, then they
Speaker 1: became carnivores, but then they went back to being herbivores.
Speaker 1: Like panda bears are really interesting, right, like they maybe
Speaker 1: not entirely carnivores, but at least heavily carnivores with some
Speaker 1: omnivorous traits.
Speaker 2: And then they.
Speaker 1: Started to completely specialize in bamboo, and now that's it.
Speaker 1: That's that's it for them. It's got to be bamboo
Speaker 1: or nothing. Ride or die with that bamboo for better
Speaker 1: or worse.
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is which is a evolutionary mistake on their
Speaker 3: Sometimes you adapt and then you're like I've adapted in
Speaker 3: the direction.
Speaker 1: Like investing in just one stock like hey, you know
Speaker 1: what this is theeum coin seems really good.
Speaker 2: I'm going to invest in all of it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean it's but that's the thing, right,
Speaker 1: Like evolution doesn't have foresight. It's not like, well maybe
Speaker 1: we shouldn't like invest completely in bamboo. If there's a
Speaker 1: ton of bamboo, if there's a ton of sea grass,
Speaker 1: it's just like great, this will be like this forever
Speaker 1: because like you know, there's no it's yes, so.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so interesting. And like I talk about that
Speaker 3: in the book, is that, like a lot of times
Speaker 3: people have this like view of evolution being very linear.
Speaker 3: We have that like stereotypical image of like a monkey,
Speaker 3: and then it transforms into like a man in a suit,
Speaker 3: and it's like, that's not how that works. Such straight
Speaker 3: line evolution is kind of just like roll the dice. Yeah,
Speaker 3: what works in this moment? All right, sounds good. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And something that's really interesting about hammerheads is, you know,
Speaker 3: the first thing that people always ask me is like,
Speaker 3: what do hammerheads use their heads for? And then you know,
Speaker 3: I say, there's a lot of theories, and then I
Speaker 3: tell them the theories. They can turn better, their eyes
Speaker 3: are on the side, so they have near three sixty vision,
Speaker 3: it spreads out their sensory organs that sense electrical charge.
Speaker 3: They can use it to pin down stingrays, all of
Speaker 3: these things. And then I always end it with or
Speaker 3: it's just as likely that this was a random mutation
Speaker 3: that they've been trying to get rid of ever since.
Speaker 3: Because there are two conflicting hypotheses right now on the phylogeny,
Speaker 3: which is like how things are related. That says like
Speaker 3: actually the most ancestral, the one that's closest to the
Speaker 3: most ancestral what was the ancestor of the hammerhead sharks
Speaker 3: is the like wing head shark that has like the
Speaker 3: widest head that's like three fourths as long as its body,
Speaker 3: and then the ones that are more close in evolutionary
Speaker 3: history to now, they came about with small heads. And
Speaker 3: it's like, hmm, our hammerheads actually benefiting from his head
Speaker 3: or are they? Like, I mean, I didn't die from
Speaker 3: having this giant head, so I guess it's fine. Yeah,
Speaker 3: which sometimes things happen because they didn't die exactly necessarily helpful.
Speaker 3: It's just they didn't die and things still wanted to reproduce.
Speaker 2: With them, right, Yeah, did you die? Yes?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: And did you have offscreen? Yes? No, hooray you win
Speaker 2: for now. Yeah. This is really interesting because it's like
Speaker 2: maybe just like great great, great, great great great great.
Speaker 1: Amma was like really horny for big heads, and now
Speaker 1: you're stuck with a big head forever.
Speaker 3: Yeah that's yeah, It's just it's super funny, like evolution
Speaker 3: is so weird like that, and then it'll be like, oh,
Speaker 3: this wasn't beneficial until it was right and then ha
Speaker 3: ha ha, you didn't want to mate with all of
Speaker 3: these like weirdo big headed sharks, and then something happened
Speaker 3: and suddenly having a big head is an advantage and
Speaker 3: don't you feel silly?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love Like there's that the idea that
Speaker 1: maybe the you know, k I'm trying to remember the
Speaker 1: exact name, it's this, there's a deer that had like the.
Speaker 2: Massive, massive antlers, the Irish elk. There we go.
Speaker 1: I'm I totally didn't just google that, by the way,
Speaker 1: the Irish elk, And like some of the theories of
Speaker 1: like why it just like went extinct is just like, well,
Speaker 1: forrest kind of changed and they couldn't get in them.
Speaker 1: And that's so it's just so funny to me right
Speaker 1: where it's like, yeah, I have these huge antlers and
Speaker 1: all the ladies love my huge antlers, and then just
Speaker 1: trying to get into the new sort of more dense
Speaker 1: forest just like bonk bonk bonk, I can't get in.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Or like in the shark world, we have the megalodon,
Speaker 3: which everyone is always like, ah, the megalodon so cool,
Speaker 3: such a great shark. It was giant and bigger is
Speaker 3: not necessarily better because it was great. They were big.
Speaker 3: They were like, ha ha ha, I'm eating all the whales.
Speaker 3: This is awesome. And all the whales were like, oh no,
Speaker 3: there's a big, scary predator. I'm gonna be really fast
Speaker 3: and be able to swim fast and be small and
Speaker 3: be able to swim fast, and like that's my strategy.
Speaker 3: I'm just trying to dodge them. And then Meglaedon was like,
Speaker 3: all right, you're kind of fast, so you're hard to hunt.
Speaker 3: But you know this is fine. We're chilling, we're vibing.
Speaker 3: And then great hammerhead sharks are not great hammerheads. Great
Speaker 3: white sharks came to exist and then they're like white
Speaker 3: sharks are like, ha ha, I am smaller than you
Speaker 3: and therefore faster and I can I can catch more
Speaker 3: whales than you. Haha. You thought that you were so
Speaker 3: big and scary, but actually you're slow and I'm fast,
Speaker 3: so mahhahaha. And then the.
Speaker 2: Megaladon was like, oh no, yeah.
Speaker 3: Now I have competition and I can't compete because I'm
Speaker 3: too fast and I can't evolve to be small fast though.
Speaker 2: Oh no.
Speaker 3: And then death and then on the other side of that,
Speaker 3: the whales are like, hah no, we were so small
Speaker 3: and so fast and that means nothing now because white
Speaker 3: sharks are even faster. And then they're like, I don't
Speaker 3: know what do we do? And then there's like the
Speaker 3: one like group of whales that was like a little
Speaker 3: fat and slow and they were just getting munched on
Speaker 3: by the megalodon and everybody was like ha ha, you suck.
Speaker 3: And then suddenly the great white sharks were like, ah,
Speaker 3: then I want to eat you because I can't fix
Speaker 3: you in my mouth.
Speaker 2: Yeah, too big, big problem.
Speaker 3: And then they're like, haha, joke's on you, all of
Speaker 3: you small ones. We will rise now. And now whales
Speaker 3: are like giant.
Speaker 2: Yes, uh yeah, I do love.
Speaker 1: I love like also just the image of the great
Speaker 1: white shark like you know, just little, not to us,
Speaker 1: little but compared to the megalodon, just like persistently yoink
Speaker 1: grabbing little you know, fish or whales like away from
Speaker 1: the megalodon. But yeah, it is, it is. It's always
Speaker 1: really interesting how Yeah, evolution is a wild circuitous ride.
Speaker 2: It is not like yes, I have.
Speaker 1: Now evolved better teeth and everyone else has better teeth.
Speaker 1: It's like, no, I'm going to like that one weird
Speaker 1: shark that has the the it had the weird like
Speaker 1: almost sob blade mouth at hiliocon.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's just like, well that was kind of
Speaker 1: a mistake that didn't work very well, but it.
Speaker 3: Just as likely could have worked amazingly.
Speaker 2: Yes, it worked at the time. It was it seemed
Speaker 2: like a good idea at the time.
Speaker 1: Uh, the the offspring that had that mutation, they survived,
Speaker 1: they made it work until they didn't. Now we don't
Speaker 1: have cool buzz buzz saw sharks anymore.
Speaker 3: Yeah. But something that's really cool about sharks and something
Speaker 3: that I find really fascinating about them is even though
Speaker 3: you know they're evolving and adapting, their basic body structure
Speaker 3: stays pretty conserved throughout you know, this four hundred and
Speaker 3: fifty million years they've been on this planet. There's like,
Speaker 3: you know, the Carsonization where everything's becoming a crab and
Speaker 3: then sharks are just like but also, I'm just going
Speaker 3: to be a shark. Yeah, it's working.
Speaker 1: Everyone's everyone's over there being like have you heard about
Speaker 1: this new thing called crab?
Speaker 2: And sharks are like not interested. It's I'm happy with myself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, speaking of interesting sort of shark shapes, or like
Speaker 1: the consistent shark shape. Can you talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about your research on sawfish, because they are another one
Speaker 1: of those that it's like, huh, why they got that
Speaker 1: saw in the front of them, but then the rest
Speaker 1: of them is just like normal shark.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I so obviously you can tell that I have
Speaker 3: a thing for sharks and rays with weird faces. Yes,
Speaker 3: I just I just love it. If you have a
Speaker 3: weird head, I want to study you. I don't understand
Speaker 3: why you have that.
Speaker 2: There's someone for everyone.
Speaker 3: Sawfish are really cool because I mean they have have
Speaker 3: this long saw, which the scientific term is a rostrum,
Speaker 3: and they just whack things with it, and like that's
Speaker 3: the strategy, just like fruit ninja. Yeah, just go into
Speaker 3: a school of fish and just slice and dice, and
Speaker 3: it's a really cool strategy. And then it also secondarily,
Speaker 3: they have all of these ampulae of Lorenzini, which are
Speaker 3: those sensory organs that sense electricity that I was talking
Speaker 3: about before, and so it's like a it's like a
Speaker 3: fish detector. So they got this long nose and they
Speaker 3: can just like.
Speaker 1: Like are distributed along that that long saw, so it's
Speaker 1: like it's like a metal detector, but for electrical signals.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then like they sensed it and then they
Speaker 3: just slip slash slash. Cool and I mean it's cool.
Speaker 3: It's a cool strategy. And they're rays, so they are
Speaker 3: like not through sharks, but they do have shark like
Speaker 3: body shape, but they still have wings like array, and
Speaker 3: their gill slits are still on the bottom. They still
Speaker 3: spend a lot of time like laying on the bottom
Speaker 3: and they just kind of lay on the bottom and
Speaker 3: then whenever they feel like eating, they just slice the
Speaker 3: dice and then they go back to laying. And honestly,
Speaker 3: it's an inspirational way to live your life. Lay eat,
Speaker 3: lay eat. I track the movements of these animals for
Speaker 3: my graduate research, and literally we would just have these
Speaker 3: receivers where we can detect if one of the sawfish
Speaker 3: that we put a transmitter in is by receiver, and
Speaker 3: it would just be days of this sawfish not moving
Speaker 3: for days by this receiver. They were just like when
Speaker 3: I live here now and I'm just gonna live here
Speaker 3: for like two weeks, I'm not gonna move any further
Speaker 3: than like five hundred yards. I'm just gonna just gonna
Speaker 3: be here. It's like it's like okay, cool, I'm glad
Speaker 3: you've invested in this place. And then they'll be like, ah,
Speaker 3: but now I want to move to a new place.
Speaker 3: And then they will just in May just up and
Speaker 3: be like we're out of here, and they go all
Speaker 3: the way up the coast of Florida. On both sides,
Speaker 3: they're like all the way up to like Apalatricola Bay,
Speaker 3: which is by like Panama City Beach is the Panhandle,
Speaker 3: the very tip right before you get into Alabama. Sometimes
Speaker 3: they'll be we have we have environmental DNA that suggests
Speaker 3: that they go all the way to Mississippi, and then
Speaker 3: we've had detections all the way to Georgia. We've had
Speaker 3: people see them before in South Carolina. So they just
Speaker 3: are like I don't want to move, and now i
Speaker 3: want to move really far and then I'm gonna sit
Speaker 3: and then I'm gonna go back.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I do really aspire to these chucks because
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm similar where sometimes I need a
Speaker 1: lot of naps and then after I've had my little nap,
Speaker 1: I'm like ready to go. I'm full of energy. But
Speaker 1: then it's I need those naps. I need to be
Speaker 1: able to just like lie down for a while before
Speaker 1: I am ready to go to the panhandle, which in
Speaker 1: my situation it is just like going to the grocery store.
Speaker 1: I also love their little faces like underneath, because you
Speaker 1: know their mouth is it looks like it is underneath there,
Speaker 1: so rather than kind of like you know, it's the
Speaker 1: same thing as like with rays, right you flip over
Speaker 1: a ray or don't do that, but if you do
Speaker 1: do it, you see like they have their little mouth.
Speaker 1: It's adorable and it's the same thing here and you
Speaker 1: look at it and they like it goes from being
Speaker 1: very menacing looking when you look at it like top
Speaker 1: down and you see this like saw blade rostrum and
Speaker 1: it's like very intimidating. And you look underneath and it's
Speaker 1: like this little smiley face and a big nose.
Speaker 3: Yeah. They I think they kind of look like someone
Speaker 3: who took their dentures out and they're smiling at you.
Speaker 3: It's like a little muffing face.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh it's so cool, very very cool.
Speaker 1: What is one aspect of your work, like when you're
Speaker 1: out on the boat and doing research on these sharks,
Speaker 1: Like what do you think is one of the most
Speaker 1: surprising aspects that people when.
Speaker 2: You tell people about it.
Speaker 1: That you have to do, like when you are handling
Speaker 1: sharks or when you're doing shark research.
Speaker 3: I mean, the first thing that people always ask me
Speaker 3: is have you been bitten by a shark? And I
Speaker 3: have not. And people have this image that like sharks
Speaker 3: are just out to get you, which is unfairly earned
Speaker 3: because they're just vibe and just like any other animal,
Speaker 3: and they have this bad reputation and so it's like, yes,
Speaker 3: this is a wild animal, but so are tons of
Speaker 3: other animals, and you respect them, you take precautions, you
Speaker 3: don't do anything that is going to obviously upset them
Speaker 3: and feel make them feel like they need to fight you.
Speaker 3: And they are just kind of like, I mean, I
Speaker 3: don't like this, but I don't feel like you're trying
Speaker 3: to kill me. So I'm kind of just gonna sit
Speaker 3: here and then I hope you let me go, and
Speaker 3: then as soon as you let me go, I'm out
Speaker 3: of here.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So's it's it's sort of like, you know, I have
Speaker 3: a dog taking my dog to a that he's like squirming.
Speaker 3: Ya's like, ah, please don't put that that thermometer in
Speaker 3: my butt, which is fair.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very fair. They must be so confused by that,
Speaker 1: like why would you do that?
Speaker 3: And so it's the same thing with charts in the
Speaker 3: same way that I would handle a dog or a
Speaker 3: cat or any other animal that people normally interact with,
Speaker 3: Like it's just as likely that a dog or a
Speaker 3: cat could bite or scratch you.
Speaker 1: Yes, you're probably yes, you're probably more at risk of
Speaker 1: my dog Cookie nipping you than a shark nipping you,
Speaker 1: because she is uh, she expresses discomfort with just like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put your finger in my mouth now because
Speaker 1: you're doing something I don't like.
Speaker 2: This cold thing is up my butt and I do
Speaker 2: not like it.
Speaker 1: So, like I feel it is funny because like I
Speaker 1: feel like we give such a pass to like cute
Speaker 1: little dogs, cute little cats, right, and they're biting and
Speaker 1: they're scratching, and but like you know, with sharks, it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's the same thing, right, you might get
Speaker 1: a little a little bite from a shark if it's
Speaker 1: scared or something or curious, like sometimes like when I'm
Speaker 1: petting one of my sisters in law's cats, like it's
Speaker 1: not upset. It's just like, well, I'm gonna now taste
Speaker 1: your hand and just give it a chomp. And it's like, okay, man,
Speaker 1: I don't know why you're doing that. But we give
Speaker 1: cats and dogs this past and then sharks. Then when
Speaker 1: a shark is like, you know, takes a little curiosity nibble,
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, well, you're you're just a onto logically
Speaker 1: evil animal.
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly. And so whenever I'm teaching people like interns
Speaker 3: and students how to handle sharks, I always tell them
Speaker 3: never yourself between the shark and the water. Like, if
Speaker 3: you're on the boat and you're you're doing a shark tagging,
Speaker 3: you're going to always be inside the boat and have
Speaker 3: the shark facing the outside of the boat because guess
Speaker 3: where the shark wants to be in the wood. So like,
Speaker 3: if the shark gets away from you, the shark is
Speaker 3: not gonna think oh let me go bye that person.
Speaker 3: It's gonna think freedom and jump into the water. But
Speaker 3: if you're standing between the shark and the water, the
Speaker 3: shark thinks I have to go.
Speaker 2: Through you, right.
Speaker 3: I need I need to get you out of my way.
Speaker 1: I need to be like the kool aid man, and
Speaker 1: like barrel through this person like a wall.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. So that's that's what I tell people, is
Speaker 3: like sharks are like any other animal. We give them
Speaker 3: this bad reputation. I mean, a shark will be mining
Speaker 3: its own business, swimming down beach and the headlines will
Speaker 3: read like man eating sharks stock beach goers in Miami,
Speaker 3: and it's like, all right, this shark is literally just
Speaker 3: swimming mining its business. Note how it has swammed past
Speaker 3: hundreds of people and just kept going on its very way.
Speaker 3: It is not interested in any of you. But we
Speaker 3: don't say that about like a squirrel, Like if a
Speaker 3: squirrel is running around Central Park, We're not like man
Speaker 3: eating squirrels stocks people in Central Park.
Speaker 1: Although sometimes like college campus squirrels are legitimately legitimately frightening
Speaker 1: because they're so used to humans and they understand that
Speaker 1: we have food, and I have there have been squirrels
Speaker 1: that have been very intimidating. Also ground squirrels when you're
Speaker 1: on the beach and they learn that like humans have food,
Speaker 1: they will not leave you alone. Like they are determined
Speaker 1: and if they're like you have a sandwich, they if
Speaker 1: they could kill me for a sandwich, I'm sure they would.
Speaker 1: They absolutely have that in them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they're mammals and they're furries, so we get
Speaker 3: from a past. That's what I've noticed. Yeah, you're a mammal,
Speaker 3: we give you a pass. Or like you're like us, Yeah,
Speaker 3: you can't be evil.
Speaker 1: I mean it's like because like bears, I think are similar.
Speaker 1: It's like a similar situation with bears, right, Like, bears
Speaker 1: can be dangerous, right, Like, they can hurt and injure
Speaker 1: a human being, just like a shirt can hurt and
Speaker 1: injure a human being. Usually it's defensive or by accident,
Speaker 1: but you know, on occasion, yeah, like it can chomp
Speaker 1: you up. But then we're like, oh, but bears are
Speaker 1: so cute and so cuttly. It's like, well, they are
Speaker 1: definitely not cuddly, but we still like to give them
Speaker 1: a pass.
Speaker 2: Do you remember that.
Speaker 1: I don't remember exactly when it was, but there was
Speaker 1: that there was a they had sent like a drone
Speaker 1: off the coast of I want to say, somewhere in California.
Speaker 2: But like they were just using this drone to like
Speaker 2: you know, kind of like.
Speaker 1: Survey the area, and they saw a bunch of sharks
Speaker 1: and also a bunch of swimmers and it's like you
Speaker 1: just saw that there was this like people who were
Speaker 1: swimming would not be able to see these sharks. It
Speaker 1: was only because they had this like drone camera footage,
Speaker 1: and the sharks were completely ignoring all of the surfers,
Speaker 1: all of the swimmers, and there were more sharks than
Speaker 1: people expected that there would be in this area, and
Speaker 1: they were just like, yeah, man, whatever, I don't I
Speaker 1: don't really care. I'm not interested in you, and like
Speaker 1: usually it's just it was kind of interesting because some
Speaker 1: of the response to that was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: there's so many sharks.
Speaker 2: That's so scary.
Speaker 1: But it seems like the response should be like, there's
Speaker 1: so many more sharks than we thought, and they're ignoring everyone.
Speaker 2: They have no interest.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Like I'll go out with friends or family and
Speaker 3: we'll go to the beach or something and they'll be like, Jasma,
Speaker 3: there's sharks in this water. And I'm like, all right,
Speaker 3: do me a favor. Stick your finger in the water,
Speaker 3: lick your finger. Is it salty? And they're like yeah,
Speaker 3: And I'm like, then there are sharks confirmed. Yes, sharks
Speaker 3: do live in the ocean. It is it is their home.
Speaker 3: There's no such thing as shark infested waters.
Speaker 1: Yes, they live there, there's people in yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I guess.
Speaker 3: So it's like, ah, sharks in ocean makes headlines. Why,
Speaker 3: Like you wouldn't go, oh my gosh, there are birds
Speaker 3: in the sky.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I mean yeah, I think that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's unfortunate. I think that.
Speaker 1: You know, Jaws and other sort of a kind of
Speaker 1: media stories about sharks and shark attacks are they're so sensationalized, right,
Speaker 1: like it's it makes it seem like these are just
Speaker 1: vicious predators and obviously you know they are predators, but
Speaker 1: for like fish and seals and crabs and squid. Uh.
Speaker 1: But you know, unless they kind of mistake you for
Speaker 1: one of those things, you're usually gonna be fine. Like
Speaker 1: I'm not not saying like go and find a shark
Speaker 1: and like put your hand in its mouth and tease it.
Speaker 1: But you know, for the most part, like shark shark
Speaker 1: attacks are just incredibly rare. It just is very unlikely
Speaker 1: to happen. And even if it does happen, usually they
Speaker 1: like kind of take an exploratory bite and they're like uh, yuck, no,
Speaker 1: thank you, check please.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it sort of wild to me how how much
Speaker 3: attention it gets because there's nothing else like that where
Speaker 3: you have a story where someone has an interaction with
Speaker 3: wildlife and it like is world news if somebody if
Speaker 3: somebody dies by a shark attack, it like is literally
Speaker 3: news all over the world. It's like headlines all over
Speaker 3: the world. And that happens like maybe ten times in
Speaker 3: a year, and there are billions of people in this world.
Speaker 3: I can't imagine something like being that hyper focused on
Speaker 3: like anything else. It's like, ah, this person you know,
Speaker 3: fell behind a vending machine and got stuck and died.
Speaker 1: Stairs killed so many more people just stares, just get
Speaker 1: out and it's it's fine.
Speaker 3: It's whenever people are like, well, I don't want to
Speaker 3: go into the ocean because it's I'm scared of sharks,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, there's so many fun things to do
Speaker 3: in the ocean and like so many fun critters to
Speaker 3: see and like things to learn about, and you're gonna
Speaker 3: let something like that stop you, Like it's like I
Speaker 3: always try to like outweigh yeah, the like sphere with
Speaker 3: like ah, but like beaches are fun, cruises are fun.
Speaker 3: You know, all of these things are fun. Yeah, they
Speaker 3: take place of the ocean, Like you're just never gonna
Speaker 3: go into the ocean because you might be one of
Speaker 3: the billions and billions and billions of people. Yeah, world
Speaker 3: that gets bit by a shark. Yeah, And I'm like,
Speaker 3: do you drive? Yeah, exactly, like you you could definitely
Speaker 3: die getting in a car.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've already survived that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, You've already survived a much more dangerous activity that day,
Speaker 1: which is driving.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So it's like you, you know, you know how
Speaker 3: you make the choice, but like, yes, you could get
Speaker 3: in a car accident and you could die, but it's
Speaker 3: way better to drive than to not drive. Like, you know,
Speaker 3: I'm trying to create that same sense with the ocean,
Speaker 3: and like, yes, we obey traffic laws, we put on
Speaker 3: our seat belts, we put air bags in our car,
Speaker 3: we have all of these safety measures in place. It's
Speaker 3: the same thing with sharks. There are lifeguards. You can
Speaker 3: do certain things like not swimming at dawn or dusk,
Speaker 3: don't swim by you know, floating dead whale carcasses.
Speaker 1: Look at it, man, oh man, I really wanted to
Speaker 1: swim next to that dead bloated whale carcass.
Speaker 3: You know, like just pay if you're diving. Don't go
Speaker 3: touching sharks because honestly, most of the shark bites that
Speaker 3: we have in the world are provoked, and usually it's
Speaker 3: somebody touching a shark. Yeah, and it's like, yeah, you
Speaker 3: wouldn't go grab a squirrel in Central Park because guess
Speaker 3: what it's gonna bite you. Yeah, don't go grab in
Speaker 3: a shark. Don't touch them, don't get in their space,
Speaker 3: don't swim towards them. Definitely, don't make them feel like
Speaker 3: they're cornered. Yeah, you know. And then the other thing
Speaker 3: that has happens is like people are actively in chummed
Speaker 3: waters or they're spearfishing. Spearfishermen also have the one of
Speaker 3: the highest rates of like having shark bites. It's because
Speaker 3: they're literally like shooting yeah thing at you know, fish,
Speaker 3: and it's bloody and it's creating all of this mess.
Speaker 3: So yeah, obviously you're going to have those, you know,
Speaker 3: increased likelihoods there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you do want to know what it's like
Speaker 1: to touch a shark, you could get like a I
Speaker 1: don't know, I'd say like two order three hundred grit
Speaker 1: sandpaper and rub that. That's gonna be kind of what
Speaker 1: it feels like. There are aquariums now you'd probably want
Speaker 1: definitely go to like a you know, major aquarium for
Speaker 1: this so that you know that they're taking care of
Speaker 1: the animals well. But like say Monterey Bay Aquarium, they
Speaker 1: do have some tanks where they will let you very
Speaker 1: gently put your hand in the water and just let
Speaker 1: a raise go by, and that also gives you a
Speaker 1: pretty good sense of what that feels like. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: there are ways to have the experience of what it
Speaker 1: is like to touch a shark without actually trying to
Speaker 1: touch a shark. And I know they're cute, and I
Speaker 1: also want to cuddle them. I want to hold them
Speaker 1: in my arms and sing to them, but they won't
Speaker 1: like that, so I won't do that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you got to have in a controlled setting with
Speaker 3: trained professionals that can monitor the situation and the shark behavior.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1: Before we go, can you speak a bit about minorities
Speaker 1: in shark science and how people could get involved.
Speaker 3: Sure, So, minorities in shark sciences or myths as we
Speaker 3: call it.
Speaker 2: It's a solid acronym.
Speaker 1: Can I just say solid acronym?
Speaker 3: So MISS is dedicated to supporting gender, minorities of color,
Speaker 3: and folks from the global South that are interested in
Speaker 3: marine science, particularly the study of sharks and rays, and
Speaker 3: we do that in a number of ways. We serve
Speaker 3: what we call ka gray So we have outreach programs
Speaker 3: for youth, spring break camps, summer camps, science at the
Speaker 3: c days, we go to schools and community groups to
Speaker 3: talk about sharks and their relatives. For folks that are
Speaker 3: older that are interested in getting into the field, we
Speaker 3: have fellowships, internships, We have workshops like professional development workshops,
Speaker 3: a huge variety. We try to make it as accessiful
Speaker 3: as possible, so it's all expenses paid. There are three
Speaker 3: day long time commitments, there are one month to three months.
Speaker 3: There's all sorts of options to engage with marine science
Speaker 3: in a meaningful way, even hybrid experiences where it's partially online.
Speaker 3: And then we do research, so we help support people
Speaker 3: doing research all over the world. We have about five
Speaker 3: hundred members representing about thirty four different countries and the
Speaker 3: majority of US states and territories, and we support them
Speaker 3: in doing their research, particularly focused on in inclusive conservation
Speaker 3: and research, where we center the voices of communities that
Speaker 3: don't typically get to be heard in science or in
Speaker 3: conservation and ways to get involved. We have applications for
Speaker 3: programs open pretty much all the time, so you can
Speaker 3: go on our website and you can join our mailing
Speaker 3: list to stay up to date on opportunities. You can
Speaker 3: also on our website find the donation button you can
Speaker 3: donate to support us. You can buy swag if you
Speaker 3: do want to come touch a shark. We do have
Speaker 3: a fundraiser happening right now which is Shark Scientists for
Speaker 3: a Day, where you can buy a ticket and come
Speaker 3: and learn about the research that we do. Come on
Speaker 3: the boat with us and be a shark scientist for
Speaker 3: a day, and by doing that, you allow two of
Speaker 3: our participants to get hands on training. So your ticket
Speaker 3: pays for two participants in one of our workshops to
Speaker 3: get training as well, so that is an option. And
Speaker 3: then there's tons of information about our various programs all
Speaker 3: on our website. We also are very active on social media.
Speaker 3: We're on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, and TikTok.
Speaker 1: Nice TikTok. I totally understand TikTok. I am completely with it.
Speaker 1: I will take one of us, Yes, Shark Talk, I
Speaker 1: will link to that. I'll put a link to that
Speaker 1: website in the show notes and where and can people
Speaker 1: pick up your book? Just in bookstores or online? Where
Speaker 1: can people get your book? Sharks don't sync.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you can get the book pretty much anywhere
Speaker 3: books are sold, So check out your local independent books.
Speaker 3: Support independent bookstores. And if you don't have an independent
Speaker 3: bookstore that's around you. Barnes and Nobles Books, a million, Amazon,
Speaker 3: all of those places will have it. And it's on
Speaker 3: audiobook and it's on ebook, so check with your library.
Speaker 3: See if it's in your library. See if it's on Libby.
Speaker 3: You can read it an e book. So check that out.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Jasmine.
Speaker 1: This was really really fun and I learned a lot
Speaker 1: about bon Ahead Sharks. Now it's time to play a
Speaker 1: little game called guests Who's Squawking? The Mystery Animal sound Game?
Speaker 1: Full disclosure, I am recording this in the future, which
Speaker 1: I guess is your past, but the future from when I.
Speaker 2: Recorded the rest of the podcast.
Speaker 1: Anyways, So last week's episode was a rerun because I
Speaker 1: needed a little vacation called lap camels, and so this
Speaker 1: was the mystery animal sound hint from that episode it
Speaker 1: was you may find these little dudes booging to an
Speaker 1: imaginary beat, but it's probably for the prey that lies
Speaker 1: beneath their feet, h.
Speaker 2: So cute.
Speaker 1: Congratulations to Sherry Ce for guessing correctly that this is
Speaker 1: the American woodcock. It is pretty Internet famous for walking
Speaker 1: in a very particular rhythmic fashion, which is thought to
Speaker 1: possibly be to create vibrations under the earth that mimics
Speaker 1: that of rain, which would then drive worms up to
Speaker 1: the surface. But yes, it makes that adorable little ink sound,
Speaker 1: and it is also.
Speaker 2: The bird itself.
Speaker 3: Very very cute.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: So two weeks ago we had an episode called Hot
Speaker 1: Sharks Summer. Highly recommend listening to that one if you
Speaker 1: haven't already given that this one. If you liked the
Speaker 1: sharks on this when we talk about other sharks there.
Speaker 1: But the mystery animal sound hint was this, don't talk
Speaker 1: with your mouth full.
Speaker 2: Sorry I can't stop laughing.
Speaker 1: Okay, So congratulations to Ari L.
Speaker 2: M roots K for guessing.
Speaker 1: Correctly that this is a harbor seal enjoying a fish
Speaker 1: with his snoot in the water.
Speaker 2: Very cool.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to hold off on doing a new
Speaker 1: mystery animal sound game because next week I plan to
Speaker 1: do a listener Questions episode, so the week after I
Speaker 1: will do a new one when I have a guest on.
Speaker 1: But yeah, because I'm doing a listener Questions episode next week,
Speaker 1: I have not put writing that. So if you do
Speaker 1: have a question that you'd like me to answer, do
Speaker 1: write in and maybe I'll answer it next week, maybe
Speaker 1: sometime in the future, or send you an email. And
Speaker 1: I do love your questions, so write to me at
Speaker 1: Creature featurepodat gmail dot com. Thank you guys so much.
Speaker 1: Thank you guys for listening. If you are enjoying the show,
Speaker 1: if you leave a rating and review, that really does
Speaker 1: help me and I do actually read every single one
Speaker 1: of them. And thanks to the Space Classics for their
Speaker 1: super awesome song XO Lumina. Creature features a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts like the one you just heard, visit
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts, or Hey gus, what where
Speaker 1: have you listened to your favorite shows?
Speaker 2: I don't judge you.
Speaker 1: Not your mother, and I can't tell you what to
Speaker 1: do except don't poke a shark unless you are being
Speaker 1: supervised by experts.
Speaker 2: See you next Wednesday. A MHM