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Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature feature production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: I'm your host of Many.

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Speaker 1: Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, and

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Speaker 1: today on the show, we are continuing hount Sharks Summer

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Speaker 1: with a special guest who is a shark biologist and expert,

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Speaker 1: and we are going to learn a lot about sharks

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Speaker 1: about life. So welcome to the show. The co founder

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Speaker 1: of Minorities in Shark Sciences and author of the new

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Speaker 1: autobiographical book Sharks Don't Sink, Jasmine Graham.

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Speaker 3: Welcome, Hello, Thanks for having me. So.

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Speaker 1: I really love how your book combines both science and

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Speaker 1: your life story. So like you weave together tales of

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Speaker 1: field research, amazing sharks, science and facts, and your own experience,

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Speaker 1: your life story. So for this interview, I definitely want

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Speaker 1: to talk about both things. So first of all, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think I and probably all of my listeners love sharks,

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Speaker 1: so there's no need to, you know, try to justify

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Speaker 1: why one would love sharks. But what did draw you

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Speaker 1: to sharks as a focus of research.

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Speaker 3: Well, I always was interested in the ocean. I grew

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Speaker 3: up fishing with my dad and so the ocean was

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Speaker 3: always a big part of my life. And then I

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Speaker 3: found out in high school you could get paid to

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Speaker 3: study fish, and I was like, that sounds like the

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Speaker 3: coolest job ever. I guess I'll do that, And so

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Speaker 3: I went to college for marine biology. And I tried

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Speaker 3: a lot of different things while I was in college,

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Speaker 3: but what stuck was sharks. And how I first got

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Speaker 3: introduced to sharks was a total accident. It's what I

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Speaker 3: call a scientific meat cute where I had this moment

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Speaker 3: where I was walking down the hallway and turned a

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Speaker 3: corner and literally ran into a professor.

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Speaker 2: I thought, you're going to study sharks, so you ran

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Speaker 2: into a shark.

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Speaker 3: In a shark in a hallway, and not.

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Speaker 2: Shark in a hallway.

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Speaker 1: The elevator doors are closing and a shark sticks a

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Speaker 1: fin in and lets you in.

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Speaker 3: I guess, in a way, I did run into a

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Speaker 3: shark because I ran into doctor Gavin Taylor. Papers went flying,

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Speaker 3: and then I started picking them up and I started

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Speaker 3: seeing all of these images of these really cool CT

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Speaker 3: scans of sharks, and I was like, whoa, these are awesome.

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Speaker 3: And I was asking him about it, and he was

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Speaker 3: telling me about his research and how he is studying

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Speaker 3: how sharks evolve and their adaptations and kind of just

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Speaker 3: talking about how old they are and all of these

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Speaker 3: cool things that he's learning about them, trying to build

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Speaker 3: this tree of life of sharks, and I was just

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Speaker 3: kind of like, that sounds super awesome. I want to

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Speaker 3: do that. And so he reached out to me a

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Speaker 3: couple of months later and said, I actually have some

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Speaker 3: funding and an opening in my lab for an undergraduate researcher,

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Speaker 3: and so then I started working with him with sharks,

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Speaker 3: and that's just where I stayed because honestly, sharks are

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Speaker 3: super cool. Just from seeing a couple of CT scans

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Speaker 3: and listening to this man geek out about sharks for

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Speaker 3: five minutes in the hallway, I fell in love.

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Speaker 2: I do not blame you. Sharks are incredibly cool.

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Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about your favorite shark

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Speaker 1: and what it means to you.

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Speaker 3: So my favorite shark is the bonnethead shark, and I

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Speaker 3: love them for several reasons. One because it's the first

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Speaker 3: shark species that I got to work with in a

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Speaker 3: scientific setting, so that was pretty cool too. They're just

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Speaker 3: super cute. There are multiple bonnet head pictures in the book.

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Speaker 3: Because I just need people to know how cute they are.

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Speaker 3: They look like they're wearing little tiny hats. They're often

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Speaker 3: swimming around kind of in a very confused way, and

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Speaker 3: they're just adorable. And the third reason is they were

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Speaker 3: the first shark discovered to be omnivorous, so they actually

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Speaker 3: eat plants and animals. Actually, sea grass makes up forty

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Speaker 3: to sixty percent of their diet, and so I think

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Speaker 3: it's really cool that there's a shark out there that

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Speaker 3: actually eats more plants than animals in some situations.

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Speaker 1: That is really cool. That sounds like they're the bears

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Speaker 1: of the sea. How big are bonnet sharks.

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Speaker 3: They're very small. They're like they max out between three

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Speaker 3: and four feet. Oh, babies, they're small, the little baby guys.

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Speaker 1: I of all the animals that I know that you

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Speaker 1: can't do this, but I do want to, like pick

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Speaker 1: up a shark in my arms and hold it like

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Speaker 1: a baby, because their faces to me, are so cute,

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Speaker 1: the little, the little just the little downturned mouths, the

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Speaker 1: big eyes. I have a I have a hard time

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Speaker 1: understanding why people don't find them cute.

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Speaker 3: Honestly, Yeah, I mean thresher sharks. Their faces are so cute.

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Speaker 3: They just look alarmed all the time. I know, they

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Speaker 3: just look frightened.

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Speaker 1: I want to carry one around in a baby born

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Speaker 1: if that wasn't, you know, incredibly harmful to the shark.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, that's so interesting, and you have you done

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Speaker 1: research on bonnet sharks.

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Speaker 3: I have. Yeah. So for my undergraphic research, I focused

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Speaker 3: on a small all part of the Tree of Life

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Speaker 3: project for sharks and rays, and I focus specifically on

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Speaker 3: the hammerhead family. So I was looking at all ten

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Speaker 3: speeches of hammerheads, which a lot of people don't know

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Speaker 3: that there are ten speeches of hammerheads. Sometimes people think

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Speaker 3: that hammerheads are just like one species, one.

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Speaker 1: Guy, one shark that's got a like an actual hammer.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So I studied all of them, bonnettheads included. And

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Speaker 3: then I got to co advise a master student who

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Speaker 3: studied bonnethead sharks and their head shapes, and I talk

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Speaker 3: about that a lot in the book. And the head

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Speaker 3: shapes are super cool for bonnet heeads because they exhibit

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Speaker 3: what's called sexual dimorphism, which is where males and females

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Speaker 3: look different. And that's super cool that their heads look

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Speaker 3: different if you're a male versus a female bonnetthead shark

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Speaker 3: because that's super weird. What a weird thing that is

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Speaker 3: different between males and females, But it.

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Speaker 1: Is imagine if for humans, if women were going around

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Speaker 1: with triangle heads and men were going around with square heads.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, we'd probably find whole new ways to

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Speaker 1: make society sexist based on like, well, you know, with

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Speaker 1: the triangle head, you know, obviously you can't be president.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: One thing also in.

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Speaker 1: The book that is really interesting, but also you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of I think painful, is like discussing the challenges

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Speaker 1: that you face in marine biology, particularly as a black woman.

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Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about how you approached

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Speaker 1: these challenges and what like what they were, what you face,

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Speaker 1: which you know, really likely the only challenges in research

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Speaker 1: should be you know, hey, are my you know notes

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Speaker 1: getting wet because I'm on a boat. But no, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of actual social challenges that you faced.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Science is interesting because people feel like science should

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Speaker 3: be a place where we don't have human problems, because

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Speaker 3: people see scientists as these like objective beings that don't

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Speaker 3: have any bias and all of these things. But that's

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Speaker 3: not true. Scientists are people just like anyone else. And

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Speaker 3: so therefore science has some society issues creep into it.

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Speaker 3: And so a lot of those issues come up in

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Speaker 3: science settings when it's people interacting with other people. And

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Speaker 3: so that is something that I found to be a challenge,

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Speaker 3: mostly in the sense of people look at me and

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Speaker 3: they don't expect me to be a scientist, and so

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Speaker 3: therefore there's this, oh, you need to prove yourself because

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Speaker 3: we don't feel like you belong here because you don't

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Speaker 3: look like scientists. I've actually had a lot of people

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Speaker 3: say that, like, oh, you know, it looks like a scientist,

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Speaker 3: and then I asked the question, what does a scientist

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Speaker 3: look like? Right, and then they get very uncomfortable. They

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Speaker 3: should yes, that is my bias creeping out. And so

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Speaker 3: I think that that is, in and of itself, something

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Speaker 3: where you have this sort of doubt when you come

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Speaker 3: into a room, or when you submit a paper, or

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Speaker 3: when you're submitting a grant proposal, that people have these

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Speaker 3: preconceived notions about what a scientist is and what a

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Speaker 3: scientist looks like, and what they do and don't do.

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Speaker 3: And so that's a challenge. And then there's more egregious things,

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Speaker 3: of course, because people sometimes are terrible, but a lot

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Speaker 3: of it is people that the heart I would say

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Speaker 3: the hardest thing is people that believe that they don't

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Speaker 3: have bias, and then they walk around like I had

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Speaker 3: a talking about yeah, that's why I said that, like

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Speaker 3: it I would have assumed that anybody was a custodian

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, would you know, or like they'll be like, oh,

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Speaker 3: it's just because you're young, is it? And so that's

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Speaker 3: that's the harder thing to deal with because whenever you

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Speaker 3: have somebody that's like blatantly and openly causic issues, then

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Speaker 3: it's a little easier to pinpoint. But there's often a

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Speaker 3: lot of times where people, you know, say well, I

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Speaker 3: don't think they meant it like that, or maybe you

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Speaker 3: took it the wrong way or that other stuff where

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Speaker 3: it's sort of like, I don't believe that this is

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Speaker 3: actually a thing that is happening a lot. I don't

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Speaker 3: believe that bias played into this.

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Speaker 1: It's like a lot of defensiveness. So not only is

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Speaker 1: it awkward or uncomfortable because it's like, hey, you just

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Speaker 1: kind of assume something about me and that it's also like, oh,

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Speaker 1: now you have to deal with someone being really defensive

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Speaker 1: like oh no, no, no, I'm not sexist, I'm not racist,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure, it's a big thing. And then

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Speaker 3: there's also other issues with marine science in particular because

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Speaker 3: a lot of times you are on boats or in

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Speaker 3: very remote locations and you're stuck with the same people

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Speaker 3: for a long amount of time. And it's not like

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Speaker 3: a normal nine to five where you're like, cool, I

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Speaker 3: only have to deal with this for eight hours and

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Speaker 3: then I walk away. I mean, sometimes it's weeks of

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Speaker 3: you have to spend time with these people for a

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Speaker 3: really long time. There's all sorts of weird power dynamics

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Speaker 3: at play where sometimes people don't feel comfortable speaking out

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Speaker 3: about things, especially things like sexual harassment and stuff like that,

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Speaker 3: especially if you are as in a position of less

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Speaker 3: power and you would have to challenge some body that

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Speaker 3: has more power than you. It creates really awkward situations.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I imagine that is especially profound on a boat.

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Speaker 1: Like in academia, it's it's a huge problem. And then

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Speaker 1: you take all of these social complexities and problems of

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Speaker 1: academia and then you put it on like a platform

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Speaker 1: that is floating in the middle of the ocean that

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Speaker 1: seems really challenging.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any advice that you would give young

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Speaker 1: people who are really interested in marine biology but they

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Speaker 1: are concerned about these things, like you know, maybe they're

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Speaker 1: a minority, maybe they are worried that the field is

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Speaker 1: going to be really really challenging because of these assumptions

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Speaker 1: that like people make about what a scientist should be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean what I've always done is I always

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Speaker 3: remind myself that there are people who want to help,

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Speaker 3: and there are people who can be really good allies

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Speaker 3: and friends in the field, and if you surround yourself

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Speaker 3: with those people, then you have this sort of buffer

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Speaker 3: where hopefully you don't have to be the one to

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Speaker 3: put yourself at risk to say something to somebody that

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Speaker 3: has more power than you or something like that, because

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Speaker 3: you have other people in your corner that will speak

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Speaker 3: out on your behalf. And those people do exist, and

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Speaker 3: they are very prominent, and they usually make themselves very clear.

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Speaker 3: They're very easy to spot speacon of light where you're like, ah, yes,

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Speaker 3: you seem awesome, let's hang out. I want you in

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Speaker 3: my circle, and like people that just hype you up

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Speaker 3: because whenever you are constantly getting these like little tiny

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Speaker 3: knock downs. It's really helpful to have someone that's constantly

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Speaker 3: boosting you up so that you know you can keep

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Speaker 3: your spirits high, keep your confidence up. I think the

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Speaker 3: best way to fight imposter syndrome is to have people

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Speaker 3: constantly tell you that you belong here and you're doing

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Speaker 3: a great job. And having hype people having a heightened

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Speaker 3: squad really helpful. The other thing I think is whenever

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Speaker 3: people whatever, people maliciously try to make other people seem small,

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Speaker 3: the best response is to be bigger and take up

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Speaker 3: more space because they're trying to nudge you out, and

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Speaker 3: so the best defense is offense to just be bigger,

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Speaker 3: be bolder, like don't shrink away. I think sometimes people

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Speaker 3: when they come into a space and they feel like

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Speaker 3: they aren't being valued or they're worried about being the

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Speaker 3: only person like them and having this sort of Oh,

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Speaker 3: I have to keep proving myself over and over and

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Speaker 3: over again. Whenever I get in those situations, just walk

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Speaker 3: in with all of the authority in the world, even

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Speaker 3: if I even if I'm in my head kind of

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Speaker 3: like ah, I feel like I am an imposter facing

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Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, I'm Jasmine Graham and I'm a shark

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Speaker 3: site because I'm an expert in this field and I

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Speaker 3: know what I'm talking about and everything is great. And

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Speaker 3: then if anyone challenges that, I can say, well, you're wrong, yeah,

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Speaker 3: because I do belong here. And even if you just

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Speaker 3: say it, you say it enough, other people tell you enough,

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Speaker 3: and then you feel it. You feel like you can

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Speaker 3: walk into situations with your head held high and take

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Speaker 3: up space. And the most important thing is to not

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Speaker 3: let people like that win. And you let them win

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Speaker 3: whenever you get small. So you gotta stand your stand

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Speaker 3: your ground.

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Speaker 2: I love. That's really really good advice.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's good advice, and probably everywhere I've

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Speaker 1: not just in science, but yeah, I mean I do.

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Speaker 2: I can't help but.

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Speaker 1: Always try to relate sort of be like human psychology

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Speaker 1: back to back to animals, because that's what this show is.

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Speaker 2: I don't necessarily know enough about.

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Speaker 1: Shark behavior to say that sharks would also do this,

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Speaker 1: but like really like when they are being threatened or

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Speaker 1: being intimidated, really trying to kind of like say like.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, I am I am coming.

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Speaker 1: I am a shark, and I'm tough and I'm cool

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Speaker 1: and like, don't bother me, even though inside sharks might

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Speaker 1: actually be quite scared.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean a lot of animals do this. Some

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Speaker 3: animals do this quite literally. I mean porcupines put up

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Speaker 3: their spines, puffer fish puff up. There's like snakes swelled,

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Speaker 3: like there's this natural like something is threatening me. Be bigger.

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Speaker 3: It's sort of a natural instinct of animals like well,

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Speaker 3: if I'm bigger, then maybe they'll think it's about messing

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Speaker 3: with me. And so having that attitude of people love

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Speaker 3: to punch down, you know, like you know, people are

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Speaker 3: always going after people that they feel like they can

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Speaker 3: push around, and as soon as you stand your grounds,

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Speaker 3: they're like, oh this is not a person to be

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Speaker 3: trifled with. Let me go away. And that's what happens

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Speaker 3: in the animal kingdom. Is no animal wants to hunt

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Speaker 3: prey that's going to fight back.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like that is not what.

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Speaker 3: They want to do. If they have a choice between

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Speaker 3: like a sleeping rat and a king cobra, they're going

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Speaker 3: to go for the rat. Like I don't want to

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Speaker 3: fight a king cobra. I might lose. So yeah, just

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Speaker 3: being big and helping people see like oh you think

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Speaker 3: you're about to punch down, but really you're punching up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And they're like, ah, yeah, maybe I want to

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Speaker 2: do that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, maybe maybe maybe think twice about eating that

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Speaker 1: pufferfish that now is a big spiky balloon. You mentioned

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Speaker 1: earlier that the bonnehead sharks like swim around like they

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Speaker 1: don't know where they're they're going.

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Speaker 2: Can you expand on that?

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Speaker 1: Why Why do they swim around in sort of this

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Speaker 1: awkward way.

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Speaker 3: That's a really good question. I don't know. Some sharks

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Speaker 3: are just There are some sharks that are really like,

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Speaker 3: I'm an excellent navigator, I know where I'm going, I have,

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Speaker 3: you know, all of these skills to avoid being eaten

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Speaker 3: or to hunt or whatever. And then there's boneheads who,

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Speaker 3: for some reason like they just were like, I don't know,

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Speaker 3: I guess I'm just gonna go over here, and then

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna go over here, and just kind of I

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Speaker 3: think that's because of how they live their lives. They're

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Speaker 3: kind of just swimming through seagrass looking for a little

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Speaker 3: crabs and crustations. They're not really going after like tuna

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Speaker 3: or something like that. Right, they don't need to be

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Speaker 3: like out smarting prey necessarily, they're kind of just like

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Speaker 3: yum yum yumps.

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Speaker 2: They're enjoying.

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Speaker 3: So they just live this like what's the life where

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Speaker 3: they're just like I'm just swimming through the sea grass,

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna have a little salad and I'm gonna have

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Speaker 3: a little shrimp, and I'm just gonna like move on

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Speaker 3: with my life, whereas I feel like other sharks are

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Speaker 3: either like getting hunted down my other sharks a lot,

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Speaker 3: or they are like having to, you know, get prey

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Speaker 3: that is fast or sneaky or camouflaged and you know

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Speaker 3: all of these things. I think that bonnet heads they

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Speaker 3: just tend to have very easy lives and so they're

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Speaker 3: like natural instincts, maybe not as keen as some other

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Speaker 3: sharks that are out there in like the rough and

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Speaker 3: tumble of the deep sea where everything is trying to

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Speaker 3: kill you. Bonnet Heads are just kind of like, I

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Speaker 3: don't know, you've tagged me, and I don't know. I

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Speaker 3: feel like I didn't quite like that. But what if

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Speaker 3: I just swam right back into your head? Because that

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Speaker 3: and then I want to go that way. I know

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Speaker 3: that the last time I went that way, I was

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Speaker 3: in a net right and then you let me go.

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Speaker 2: But maybe this time, I think I'm.

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Speaker 3: Just gonna swim back that way.

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Speaker 1: Let's try it to get yeah this time, maybe this

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Speaker 1: time there will be a nice snack rather than being

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Speaker 1: in a net. Oh a net again. Well, third time's

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Speaker 1: the charm. Yeah, exactly, that's really cute. I'm really being

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Speaker 1: sold on these bonnet heead sharks. That's I love that

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Speaker 1: they're just out there scrounging around having girl dinner. I

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Speaker 1: when I am left my own devices, like, if there's

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Speaker 1: not another human being to enforce me to have a

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Speaker 1: normal human dinner, I will do bon ahead sharks stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'll just be like, I don't know, maybe some pasta.

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Speaker 1: Are these you know, potato chips still good? They're like

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Speaker 1: under the counter. I don't know, just a little, this

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Speaker 1: little bit. But it is really fascinating that they are.

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Speaker 1: Are they the only shark species we know of that

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Speaker 1: is omnivorous or are they just more more omnivorous than

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Speaker 1: other sharks.

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Speaker 3: So recently, scientists figured out that whale sharks are actually

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Speaker 3: digesting a lot of the algae that they suck in

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Speaker 3: with their mouths while they're getting planked in and stuff.

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Speaker 3: So whale sharks are also omnivorous, but whale sharks are

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Speaker 3: a little different because they're passive feeders. So it's kind

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Speaker 3: of just like, yeah, you got some plants in your.

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Speaker 2: Mouth by accident, and big whoop.

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Speaker 3: You figured out a way to die. Just it good

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Speaker 3: for you, Yeah, Whereas I mean you open up like

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Speaker 3: a bonnet head shark stomach and it's just like grass grass.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and so they they're all it's almost

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Speaker 1: as if they are they could say, if they continued

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Speaker 1: on for millions of years, like they could completely turn.

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Speaker 2: To be herbivores.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, so that's something that's really interesting about

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Speaker 3: bonnet heeads and one of the reasons why we're really

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Speaker 3: interested in this idea of them being omnivorous and like

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Speaker 3: a huge percentage of their diet being sea grass, because

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Speaker 3: there's two sides to this, like one, do they need

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Speaker 3: sea grass to like have a balanced diet, Like are

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Speaker 3: they going to perform or if they don't eat a

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Speaker 3: lot of sea grass. And that's an important question because

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Speaker 3: our seagrass beds are going away, and so if we

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Speaker 3: lose sea grass, is that detrimental to the bonnet heads

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Speaker 3: or are they kind of just like filling in with

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Speaker 3: sea grass? And then on the other side of that, well,

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Speaker 3: if there's a shortage of meat options, like let's say

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Speaker 3: the like entire shrimp population goes away, or like we

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Speaker 3: have a huge decline of the fish, Like, will they

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Speaker 3: just be like, Okay, I guess I'll just eat vegetables.

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Speaker 3: It's like, do you need both of those right to

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Speaker 3: be healthy? Or like if you lost one, could you

381
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Speaker 3: just totally just only eat the other thing? Like is

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Speaker 3: there a reason why you're eating both? Because you know,

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Speaker 3: like people whenever we go like vegetarian or vegan, like

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Speaker 3: you have to be very specific about what you eat

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Speaker 3: because there's certain nutrients that you get from meat, and

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Speaker 3: if you aren't diligent about getting those in the specific

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Speaker 3: other foods that you eat, then bad things can happen.

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Speaker 3: Is it the same for bonnet heeads? Or could bonnet

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Speaker 3: heeads just totally just survive off of seagrass without any

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Speaker 3: other nutritional output or vice versa.

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Speaker 1: Are they obligate surf and turf eaters or is this

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Speaker 1: by choice?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: That is exactly that is really fascinating.

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Speaker 1: I'm always interested in like these evolutionary histories of animals

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Speaker 1: that like they started out maybe as herbivores, then they

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Speaker 1: became carnivores, but then they went back to being herbivores.

398
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Speaker 1: Like panda bears are really interesting, right, like they maybe

399
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Speaker 1: not entirely carnivores, but at least heavily carnivores with some

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Speaker 1: omnivorous traits.

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Speaker 2: And then they.

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Speaker 1: Started to completely specialize in bamboo, and now that's it.

403
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Speaker 1: That's that's it for them. It's got to be bamboo

404
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 1: or nothing. Ride or die with that bamboo for better

405
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Speaker 1: or worse.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, which is which is a evolutionary mistake on their

407
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Speaker 3: Sometimes you adapt and then you're like I've adapted in

408
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Speaker 3: the direction.

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Speaker 1: Like investing in just one stock like hey, you know

410
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Speaker 1: what this is theeum coin seems really good.

411
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Speaker 2: I'm going to invest in all of it.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean it's but that's the thing, right,

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Speaker 1: Like evolution doesn't have foresight. It's not like, well maybe

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Speaker 1: we shouldn't like invest completely in bamboo. If there's a

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Speaker 1: ton of bamboo, if there's a ton of sea grass,

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Speaker 1: it's just like great, this will be like this forever

417
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Speaker 1: because like you know, there's no it's yes, so.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so interesting. And like I talk about that

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Speaker 3: in the book, is that, like a lot of times

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Speaker 3: people have this like view of evolution being very linear.

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Speaker 3: We have that like stereotypical image of like a monkey,

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Speaker 3: and then it transforms into like a man in a suit,

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Speaker 3: and it's like, that's not how that works. Such straight

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Speaker 3: line evolution is kind of just like roll the dice. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: what works in this moment? All right, sounds good. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And something that's really interesting about hammerheads is, you know,

427
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Speaker 3: the first thing that people always ask me is like,

428
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Speaker 3: what do hammerheads use their heads for? And then you know,

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Speaker 3: I say, there's a lot of theories, and then I

430
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Speaker 3: tell them the theories. They can turn better, their eyes

431
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 3: are on the side, so they have near three sixty vision,

432
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Speaker 3: it spreads out their sensory organs that sense electrical charge.

433
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Speaker 3: They can use it to pin down stingrays, all of

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Speaker 3: these things. And then I always end it with or

435
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Speaker 3: it's just as likely that this was a random mutation

436
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 3: that they've been trying to get rid of ever since.

437
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 3: Because there are two conflicting hypotheses right now on the phylogeny,

438
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 3: which is like how things are related. That says like

439
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 3: actually the most ancestral, the one that's closest to the

440
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 3: most ancestral what was the ancestor of the hammerhead sharks

441
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 3: is the like wing head shark that has like the

442
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 3: widest head that's like three fourths as long as its body,

443
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 3: and then the ones that are more close in evolutionary

444
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 3: history to now, they came about with small heads. And

445
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 3: it's like, hmm, our hammerheads actually benefiting from his head

446
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 3: or are they? Like, I mean, I didn't die from

447
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 3: having this giant head, so I guess it's fine. Yeah,

448
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 3: which sometimes things happen because they didn't die exactly necessarily helpful.

449
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 3: It's just they didn't die and things still wanted to reproduce.

450
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 2: With them, right, Yeah, did you die? Yes?

451
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: No?

452
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 2: And did you have offscreen? Yes? No, hooray you win

453
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 2: for now. Yeah. This is really interesting because it's like

454
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 2: maybe just like great great, great, great great great great.

455
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 1: Amma was like really horny for big heads, and now

456
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: you're stuck with a big head forever.

457
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 3: Yeah that's yeah, It's just it's super funny, like evolution

458
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 3: is so weird like that, and then it'll be like, oh,

459
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 3: this wasn't beneficial until it was right and then ha

460
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 3: ha ha, you didn't want to mate with all of

461
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 3: these like weirdo big headed sharks, and then something happened

462
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 3: and suddenly having a big head is an advantage and

463
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 3: don't you feel silly?

464
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love Like there's that the idea that

465
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: maybe the you know, k I'm trying to remember the

466
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: exact name, it's this, there's a deer that had like the.

467
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 2: Massive, massive antlers, the Irish elk. There we go.

468
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: I'm I totally didn't just google that, by the way,

469
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: the Irish elk, And like some of the theories of

470
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: like why it just like went extinct is just like, well,

471
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: forrest kind of changed and they couldn't get in them.

472
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: And that's so it's just so funny to me right

473
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: where it's like, yeah, I have these huge antlers and

474
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,719
Speaker 1: all the ladies love my huge antlers, and then just

475
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: trying to get into the new sort of more dense

476
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: forest just like bonk bonk bonk, I can't get in.

477
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 3: Yeah. Or like in the shark world, we have the megalodon,

478
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 3: which everyone is always like, ah, the megalodon so cool,

479
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 3: such a great shark. It was giant and bigger is

480
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 3: not necessarily better because it was great. They were big.

481
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 3: They were like, ha ha ha, I'm eating all the whales.

482
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 3: This is awesome. And all the whales were like, oh no,

483
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 3: there's a big, scary predator. I'm gonna be really fast

484
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 3: and be able to swim fast and be small and

485
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 3: be able to swim fast, and like that's my strategy.

486
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 3: I'm just trying to dodge them. And then Meglaedon was like,

487
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 3: all right, you're kind of fast, so you're hard to hunt.

488
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 3: But you know this is fine. We're chilling, we're vibing.

489
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 3: And then great hammerhead sharks are not great hammerheads. Great

490
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 3: white sharks came to exist and then they're like white

491
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,959
Speaker 3: sharks are like, ha ha, I am smaller than you

492
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 3: and therefore faster and I can I can catch more

493
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 3: whales than you. Haha. You thought that you were so

494
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 3: big and scary, but actually you're slow and I'm fast,

495
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 3: so mahhahaha. And then the.

496
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 2: Megaladon was like, oh no, yeah.

497
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 3: Now I have competition and I can't compete because I'm

498
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 3: too fast and I can't evolve to be small fast though.

499
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 2: Oh no.

500
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 3: And then death and then on the other side of that,

501
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 3: the whales are like, hah no, we were so small

502
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 3: and so fast and that means nothing now because white

503
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 3: sharks are even faster. And then they're like, I don't

504
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 3: know what do we do? And then there's like the

505
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 3: one like group of whales that was like a little

506
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 3: fat and slow and they were just getting munched on

507
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 3: by the megalodon and everybody was like ha ha, you suck.

508
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 3: And then suddenly the great white sharks were like, ah,

509
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 3: then I want to eat you because I can't fix

510
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 3: you in my mouth.

511
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, too big, big problem.

512
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 3: And then they're like, haha, joke's on you, all of

513
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 3: you small ones. We will rise now. And now whales

514
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 3: are like giant.

515
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 2: Yes, uh yeah, I do love.

516
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: I love like also just the image of the great

517
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: white shark like you know, just little, not to us,

518
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: little but compared to the megalodon, just like persistently yoink

519
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: grabbing little you know, fish or whales like away from

520
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: the megalodon. But yeah, it is, it is. It's always

521
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: really interesting how Yeah, evolution is a wild circuitous ride.

522
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 2: It is not like yes, I have.

523
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: Now evolved better teeth and everyone else has better teeth.

524
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: It's like, no, I'm going to like that one weird

525
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: shark that has the the it had the weird like

526
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: almost sob blade mouth at hiliocon.

527
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

528
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's just like, well that was kind of

529
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: a mistake that didn't work very well, but it.

530
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 3: Just as likely could have worked amazingly.

531
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 2: Yes, it worked at the time. It was it seemed

532
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 2: like a good idea at the time.

533
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: Uh, the the offspring that had that mutation, they survived,

534
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: they made it work until they didn't. Now we don't

535
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: have cool buzz buzz saw sharks anymore.

536
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. But something that's really cool about sharks and something

537
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 3: that I find really fascinating about them is even though

538
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 3: you know they're evolving and adapting, their basic body structure

539
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 3: stays pretty conserved throughout you know, this four hundred and

540
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 3: fifty million years they've been on this planet. There's like,

541
00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 3: you know, the Carsonization where everything's becoming a crab and

542
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 3: then sharks are just like but also, I'm just going

543
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:04,959
Speaker 3: to be a shark. Yeah, it's working.

544
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: Everyone's everyone's over there being like have you heard about

545
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: this new thing called crab?

546
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 2: And sharks are like not interested. It's I'm happy with myself.

547
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, speaking of interesting sort of shark shapes, or like

548
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: the consistent shark shape. Can you talk a little bit

549
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: about your research on sawfish, because they are another one

550
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,479
Speaker 1: of those that it's like, huh, why they got that

551
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: saw in the front of them, but then the rest

552
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: of them is just like normal shark.

553
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 3: Yeah. I so obviously you can tell that I have

554
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 3: a thing for sharks and rays with weird faces. Yes,

555
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 3: I just I just love it. If you have a

556
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 3: weird head, I want to study you. I don't understand

557
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 3: why you have that.

558
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 2: There's someone for everyone.

559
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 3: Sawfish are really cool because I mean they have have

560
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 3: this long saw, which the scientific term is a rostrum,

561
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 3: and they just whack things with it, and like that's

562
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 3: the strategy, just like fruit ninja. Yeah, just go into

563
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 3: a school of fish and just slice and dice, and

564
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 3: it's a really cool strategy. And then it also secondarily,

565
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 3: they have all of these ampulae of Lorenzini, which are

566
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 3: those sensory organs that sense electricity that I was talking

567
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 3: about before, and so it's like a it's like a

568
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 3: fish detector. So they got this long nose and they

569
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 3: can just like.

570
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 1: Like are distributed along that that long saw, so it's

571
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: like it's like a metal detector, but for electrical signals.

572
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then like they sensed it and then they

573
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 3: just slip slash slash. Cool and I mean it's cool.

574
00:34:55,719 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 3: It's a cool strategy. And they're rays, so they are

575
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 3: like not through sharks, but they do have shark like

576
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 3: body shape, but they still have wings like array, and

577
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 3: their gill slits are still on the bottom. They still

578
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 3: spend a lot of time like laying on the bottom

579
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 3: and they just kind of lay on the bottom and

580
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 3: then whenever they feel like eating, they just slice the

581
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 3: dice and then they go back to laying. And honestly,

582
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:31,439
Speaker 3: it's an inspirational way to live your life. Lay eat,

583
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 3: lay eat. I track the movements of these animals for

584
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 3: my graduate research, and literally we would just have these

585
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 3: receivers where we can detect if one of the sawfish

586
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 3: that we put a transmitter in is by receiver, and

587
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 3: it would just be days of this sawfish not moving

588
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 3: for days by this receiver. They were just like when

589
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 3: I live here now and I'm just gonna live here

590
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,240
Speaker 3: for like two weeks, I'm not gonna move any further

591
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 3: than like five hundred yards. I'm just gonna just gonna

592
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 3: be here. It's like it's like okay, cool, I'm glad

593
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 3: you've invested in this place. And then they'll be like, ah,

594
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 3: but now I want to move to a new place.

595
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 3: And then they will just in May just up and

596
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,919
Speaker 3: be like we're out of here, and they go all

597
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 3: the way up the coast of Florida. On both sides,

598
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 3: they're like all the way up to like Apalatricola Bay,

599
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 3: which is by like Panama City Beach is the Panhandle,

600
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 3: the very tip right before you get into Alabama. Sometimes

601
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 3: they'll be we have we have environmental DNA that suggests

602
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 3: that they go all the way to Mississippi, and then

603
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,879
Speaker 3: we've had detections all the way to Georgia. We've had

604
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 3: people see them before in South Carolina. So they just

605
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 3: are like I don't want to move, and now i

606
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 3: want to move really far and then I'm gonna sit

607
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 3: and then I'm gonna go back.

608
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 2: Yes, that's you know.

609
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I do really aspire to these chucks because

610
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm similar where sometimes I need a

611
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: lot of naps and then after I've had my little nap,

612
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 1: I'm like ready to go. I'm full of energy. But

613
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: then it's I need those naps. I need to be

614
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: able to just like lie down for a while before

615
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 1: I am ready to go to the panhandle, which in

616
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: my situation it is just like going to the grocery store.

617
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: I also love their little faces like underneath, because you

618
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 1: know their mouth is it looks like it is underneath there,

619
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: so rather than kind of like you know, it's the

620
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,919
Speaker 1: same thing as like with rays, right you flip over

621
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,439
Speaker 1: a ray or don't do that, but if you do

622
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: do it, you see like they have their little mouth.

623
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 1: It's adorable and it's the same thing here and you

624
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 1: look at it and they like it goes from being

625
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 1: very menacing looking when you look at it like top

626
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 1: down and you see this like saw blade rostrum and

627
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: it's like very intimidating. And you look underneath and it's

628
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,320
Speaker 1: like this little smiley face and a big nose.

629
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 3: Yeah. They I think they kind of look like someone

630
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 3: who took their dentures out and they're smiling at you.

631
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:29,280
Speaker 3: It's like a little muffing face.

632
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

633
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh it's so cool, very very cool.

634
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: What is one aspect of your work, like when you're

635
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:48,240
Speaker 1: out on the boat and doing research on these sharks,

636
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: Like what do you think is one of the most

637
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: surprising aspects that people when.

638
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 2: You tell people about it.

639
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 1: That you have to do, like when you are handling

640
00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 1: sharks or when you're doing shark research.

641
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 3: I mean, the first thing that people always ask me

642
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 3: is have you been bitten by a shark? And I

643
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 3: have not. And people have this image that like sharks

644
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 3: are just out to get you, which is unfairly earned

645
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,240
Speaker 3: because they're just vibe and just like any other animal,

646
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 3: and they have this bad reputation and so it's like, yes,

647
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 3: this is a wild animal, but so are tons of

648
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 3: other animals, and you respect them, you take precautions, you

649
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 3: don't do anything that is going to obviously upset them

650
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 3: and feel make them feel like they need to fight you.

651
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 3: And they are just kind of like, I mean, I

652
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 3: don't like this, but I don't feel like you're trying

653
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 3: to kill me. So I'm kind of just gonna sit

654
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 3: here and then I hope you let me go, and

655
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 3: then as soon as you let me go, I'm out

656
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 3: of here.

657
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

658
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 3: So's it's it's sort of like, you know, I have

659
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 3: a dog taking my dog to a that he's like squirming.

660
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 3: Ya's like, ah, please don't put that that thermometer in

661
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 3: my butt, which is fair.

662
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very fair. They must be so confused by that,

663
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: like why would you do that?

664
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 3: And so it's the same thing with charts in the

665
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,839
Speaker 3: same way that I would handle a dog or a

666
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 3: cat or any other animal that people normally interact with,

667
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 3: Like it's just as likely that a dog or a

668
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 3: cat could bite or scratch you.

669
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: Yes, you're probably yes, you're probably more at risk of

670
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: my dog Cookie nipping you than a shark nipping you,

671
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: because she is uh, she expresses discomfort with just like, well,

672
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put your finger in my mouth now because

673
00:40:58,320 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: you're doing something I don't like.

674
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 2: This cold thing is up my butt and I do

675
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 2: not like it.

676
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: So, like I feel it is funny because like I

677
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: feel like we give such a pass to like cute

678
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: little dogs, cute little cats, right, and they're biting and

679
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 1: they're scratching, and but like you know, with sharks, it's like,

680
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: you know, it's the same thing, right, you might get

681
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: a little a little bite from a shark if it's

682
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:25,399
Speaker 1: scared or something or curious, like sometimes like when I'm

683
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,399
Speaker 1: petting one of my sisters in law's cats, like it's

684
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: not upset. It's just like, well, I'm gonna now taste

685
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: your hand and just give it a chomp. And it's like, okay, man,

686
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: I don't know why you're doing that. But we give

687
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 1: cats and dogs this past and then sharks. Then when

688
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: a shark is like, you know, takes a little curiosity nibble,

689
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, well, you're you're just a onto logically

690
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:49,800
Speaker 1: evil animal.

691
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly. And so whenever I'm teaching people like interns

692
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 3: and students how to handle sharks, I always tell them

693
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 3: never yourself between the shark and the water. Like, if

694
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,760
Speaker 3: you're on the boat and you're you're doing a shark tagging,

695
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 3: you're going to always be inside the boat and have

696
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 3: the shark facing the outside of the boat because guess

697
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 3: where the shark wants to be in the wood. So like,

698
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 3: if the shark gets away from you, the shark is

699
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 3: not gonna think oh let me go bye that person.

700
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 3: It's gonna think freedom and jump into the water. But

701
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 3: if you're standing between the shark and the water, the

702
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:35,840
Speaker 3: shark thinks I have to go.

703
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:37,240
Speaker 2: Through you, right.

704
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 3: I need I need to get you out of my way.

705
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: I need to be like the kool aid man, and

706
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 1: like barrel through this person like a wall.

707
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. So that's that's what I tell people, is

708
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,879
Speaker 3: like sharks are like any other animal. We give them

709
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 3: this bad reputation. I mean, a shark will be mining

710
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:02,399
Speaker 3: its own business, swimming down beach and the headlines will

711
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 3: read like man eating sharks stock beach goers in Miami,

712
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 3: and it's like, all right, this shark is literally just

713
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 3: swimming mining its business. Note how it has swammed past

714
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 3: hundreds of people and just kept going on its very way.

715
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 3: It is not interested in any of you. But we

716
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 3: don't say that about like a squirrel, Like if a

717
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 3: squirrel is running around Central Park, We're not like man

718
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 3: eating squirrels stocks people in Central Park.

719
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 1: Although sometimes like college campus squirrels are legitimately legitimately frightening

720
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 1: because they're so used to humans and they understand that

721
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: we have food, and I have there have been squirrels

722
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: that have been very intimidating. Also ground squirrels when you're

723
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 1: on the beach and they learn that like humans have food,

724
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: they will not leave you alone. Like they are determined

725
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 1: and if they're like you have a sandwich, they if

726
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,800
Speaker 1: they could kill me for a sandwich, I'm sure they would.

727
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:06,919
Speaker 1: They absolutely have that in them.

728
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they're mammals and they're furries, so we get

729
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 3: from a past. That's what I've noticed. Yeah, you're a mammal,

730
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:18,720
Speaker 3: we give you a pass. Or like you're like us, Yeah,

731
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 3: you can't be evil.

732
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: I mean it's like because like bears, I think are similar.

733
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: It's like a similar situation with bears, right, Like, bears

734
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:30,720
Speaker 1: can be dangerous, right, Like, they can hurt and injure

735
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 1: a human being, just like a shirt can hurt and

736
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: injure a human being. Usually it's defensive or by accident,

737
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,479
Speaker 1: but you know, on occasion, yeah, like it can chomp

738
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 1: you up. But then we're like, oh, but bears are

739
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 1: so cute and so cuttly. It's like, well, they are

740
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 1: definitely not cuddly, but we still like to give them

741
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: a pass.

742
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 2: Do you remember that.

743
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: I don't remember exactly when it was, but there was

744
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: that there was a they had sent like a drone

745
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 1: off the coast of I want to say, somewhere in California.

746
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 2: But like they were just using this drone to like

747
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 2: you know, kind of like.

748
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 1: Survey the area, and they saw a bunch of sharks

749
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: and also a bunch of swimmers and it's like you

750
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,399
Speaker 1: just saw that there was this like people who were

751
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 1: swimming would not be able to see these sharks. It

752
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 1: was only because they had this like drone camera footage,

753
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: and the sharks were completely ignoring all of the surfers,

754
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 1: all of the swimmers, and there were more sharks than

755
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 1: people expected that there would be in this area, and

756
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 1: they were just like, yeah, man, whatever, I don't I

757
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 1: don't really care. I'm not interested in you, and like

758
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 1: usually it's just it was kind of interesting because some

759
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: of the response to that was like, oh my god,

760
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 1: there's so many sharks.

761
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 2: That's so scary.

762
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 1: But it seems like the response should be like, there's

763
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 1: so many more sharks than we thought, and they're ignoring everyone.

764
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 2: They have no interest.

765
00:45:55,880 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 3: Yeah. Like I'll go out with friends or family and

766
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 3: we'll go to the beach or something and they'll be like, Jasma,

767
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 3: there's sharks in this water. And I'm like, all right,

768
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 3: do me a favor. Stick your finger in the water,

769
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 3: lick your finger. Is it salty? And they're like yeah,

770
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:23,760
Speaker 3: And I'm like, then there are sharks confirmed. Yes, sharks

771
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 3: do live in the ocean. It is it is their home.

772
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 3: There's no such thing as shark infested waters.

773
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: Yes, they live there, there's people in yeah, yeah, no,

774
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:38,439
Speaker 1: I guess.

775
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 3: So it's like, ah, sharks in ocean makes headlines. Why,

776
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 3: Like you wouldn't go, oh my gosh, there are birds

777
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 3: in the sky.

778
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I mean yeah, I think that.

779
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's unfortunate. I think that.

780
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: You know, Jaws and other sort of a kind of

781
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 1: media stories about sharks and shark attacks are they're so sensationalized, right,

782
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 1: like it's it makes it seem like these are just

783
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 1: vicious predators and obviously you know they are predators, but

784
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 1: for like fish and seals and crabs and squid. Uh.

785
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 1: But you know, unless they kind of mistake you for

786
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 1: one of those things, you're usually gonna be fine. Like

787
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 1: I'm not not saying like go and find a shark

788
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 1: and like put your hand in its mouth and tease it.

789
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 1: But you know, for the most part, like shark shark

790
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: attacks are just incredibly rare. It just is very unlikely

791
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,399
Speaker 1: to happen. And even if it does happen, usually they

792
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 1: like kind of take an exploratory bite and they're like uh, yuck, no,

793
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: thank you, check please.

794
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it sort of wild to me how how much

795
00:47:55,160 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 3: attention it gets because there's nothing else like that where

796
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 3: you have a story where someone has an interaction with

797
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 3: wildlife and it like is world news if somebody if

798
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:17,840
Speaker 3: somebody dies by a shark attack, it like is literally

799
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 3: news all over the world. It's like headlines all over

800
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 3: the world. And that happens like maybe ten times in

801
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 3: a year, and there are billions of people in this world.

802
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 3: I can't imagine something like being that hyper focused on

803
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 3: like anything else. It's like, ah, this person you know,

804
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,720
Speaker 3: fell behind a vending machine and got stuck and died.

805
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:49,760
Speaker 1: Stairs killed so many more people just stares, just get

806
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: out and it's it's fine.

807
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 3: It's whenever people are like, well, I don't want to

808
00:48:55,000 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 3: go into the ocean because it's I'm scared of sharks,

809
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:05,359
Speaker 3: and I'm like, there's so many fun things to do

810
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 3: in the ocean and like so many fun critters to

811
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 3: see and like things to learn about, and you're gonna

812
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 3: let something like that stop you, Like it's like I

813
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 3: always try to like outweigh yeah, the like sphere with

814
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 3: like ah, but like beaches are fun, cruises are fun.

815
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 3: You know, all of these things are fun. Yeah, they

816
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 3: take place of the ocean, Like you're just never gonna

817
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 3: go into the ocean because you might be one of

818
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 3: the billions and billions and billions of people. Yeah, world

819
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 3: that gets bit by a shark. Yeah, And I'm like,

820
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 3: do you drive? Yeah, exactly, like you you could definitely

821
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:52,720
Speaker 3: die getting in a car.

822
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've already survived that.

823
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, You've already survived a much more dangerous activity that day,

824
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: which is driving.

825
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 3: Yeah. So it's like you, you know, you know how

826
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 3: you make the choice, but like, yes, you could get

827
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 3: in a car accident and you could die, but it's

828
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 3: way better to drive than to not drive. Like, you know,

829
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:18,800
Speaker 3: I'm trying to create that same sense with the ocean,

830
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 3: and like, yes, we obey traffic laws, we put on

831
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 3: our seat belts, we put air bags in our car,

832
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 3: we have all of these safety measures in place. It's

833
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 3: the same thing with sharks. There are lifeguards. You can

834
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,720
Speaker 3: do certain things like not swimming at dawn or dusk,

835
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 3: don't swim by you know, floating dead whale carcasses.

836
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: Look at it, man, oh man, I really wanted to

837
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 1: swim next to that dead bloated whale carcass.

838
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 3: You know, like just pay if you're diving. Don't go

839
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 3: touching sharks because honestly, most of the shark bites that

840
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,399
Speaker 3: we have in the world are provoked, and usually it's

841
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 3: somebody touching a shark. Yeah, and it's like, yeah, you

842
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 3: wouldn't go grab a squirrel in Central Park because guess

843
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 3: what it's gonna bite you. Yeah, don't go grab in

844
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 3: a shark. Don't touch them, don't get in their space,

845
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 3: don't swim towards them. Definitely, don't make them feel like

846
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 3: they're cornered. Yeah, you know. And then the other thing

847
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 3: that has happens is like people are actively in chummed

848
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 3: waters or they're spearfishing. Spearfishermen also have the one of

849
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 3: the highest rates of like having shark bites. It's because

850
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:40,800
Speaker 3: they're literally like shooting yeah thing at you know, fish,

851
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 3: and it's bloody and it's creating all of this mess.

852
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 3: So yeah, obviously you're going to have those, you know,

853
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:50,240
Speaker 3: increased likelihoods there.

854
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you do want to know what it's like

855
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: to touch a shark, you could get like a I

856
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,360
Speaker 1: don't know, I'd say like two order three hundred grit

857
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: sandpaper and rub that. That's gonna be kind of what

858
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: it feels like. There are aquariums now you'd probably want

859
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 1: definitely go to like a you know, major aquarium for

860
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 1: this so that you know that they're taking care of

861
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 1: the animals well. But like say Monterey Bay Aquarium, they

862
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 1: do have some tanks where they will let you very

863
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 1: gently put your hand in the water and just let

864
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 1: a raise go by, and that also gives you a

865
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: pretty good sense of what that feels like. So, yeah,

866
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:36,799
Speaker 1: there are ways to have the experience of what it

867
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 1: is like to touch a shark without actually trying to

868
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: touch a shark. And I know they're cute, and I

869
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 1: also want to cuddle them. I want to hold them

870
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 1: in my arms and sing to them, but they won't

871
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 1: like that, so I won't do that.

872
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:56,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, you got to have in a controlled setting with

873
00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 3: trained professionals that can monitor the situation and the shark behavior.

874
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.

875
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 1: Before we go, can you speak a bit about minorities

876
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 1: in shark science and how people could get involved.

877
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 3: Sure, So, minorities in shark sciences or myths as we

878
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 3: call it.

879
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 2: It's a solid acronym.

880
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 1: Can I just say solid acronym?

881
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 3: So MISS is dedicated to supporting gender, minorities of color,

882
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 3: and folks from the global South that are interested in

883
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 3: marine science, particularly the study of sharks and rays, and

884
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 3: we do that in a number of ways. We serve

885
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 3: what we call ka gray So we have outreach programs

886
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 3: for youth, spring break camps, summer camps, science at the

887
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 3: c days, we go to schools and community groups to

888
00:53:56,280 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 3: talk about sharks and their relatives. For folks that are

889
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 3: older that are interested in getting into the field, we

890
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:12,839
Speaker 3: have fellowships, internships, We have workshops like professional development workshops,

891
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 3: a huge variety. We try to make it as accessiful

892
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 3: as possible, so it's all expenses paid. There are three

893
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 3: day long time commitments, there are one month to three months.

894
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:34,280
Speaker 3: There's all sorts of options to engage with marine science

895
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 3: in a meaningful way, even hybrid experiences where it's partially online.

896
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:44,280
Speaker 3: And then we do research, so we help support people

897
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:46,799
Speaker 3: doing research all over the world. We have about five

898
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 3: hundred members representing about thirty four different countries and the

899
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 3: majority of US states and territories, and we support them

900
00:54:56,200 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 3: in doing their research, particularly focused on in inclusive conservation

901
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 3: and research, where we center the voices of communities that

902
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:10,319
Speaker 3: don't typically get to be heard in science or in

903
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 3: conservation and ways to get involved. We have applications for

904
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 3: programs open pretty much all the time, so you can

905
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,840
Speaker 3: go on our website and you can join our mailing

906
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 3: list to stay up to date on opportunities. You can

907
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 3: also on our website find the donation button you can

908
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:34,360
Speaker 3: donate to support us. You can buy swag if you

909
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 3: do want to come touch a shark. We do have

910
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 3: a fundraiser happening right now which is Shark Scientists for

911
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 3: a Day, where you can buy a ticket and come

912
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 3: and learn about the research that we do. Come on

913
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 3: the boat with us and be a shark scientist for

914
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 3: a day, and by doing that, you allow two of

915
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:01,840
Speaker 3: our participants to get hands on training. So your ticket

916
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:05,319
Speaker 3: pays for two participants in one of our workshops to

917
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 3: get training as well, so that is an option. And

918
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 3: then there's tons of information about our various programs all

919
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 3: on our website. We also are very active on social media.

920
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:24,400
Speaker 3: We're on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, and TikTok.

921
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 1: Nice TikTok. I totally understand TikTok. I am completely with it.

922
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 1: I will take one of us, Yes, Shark Talk, I

923
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 1: will link to that. I'll put a link to that

924
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 1: website in the show notes and where and can people

925
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 1: pick up your book? Just in bookstores or online? Where

926
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:51,879
Speaker 1: can people get your book? Sharks don't sync.

927
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you can get the book pretty much anywhere

928
00:56:56,400 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 3: books are sold, So check out your local independent books.

929
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 3: Support independent bookstores. And if you don't have an independent

930
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 3: bookstore that's around you. Barnes and Nobles Books, a million, Amazon,

931
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 3: all of those places will have it. And it's on

932
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 3: audiobook and it's on ebook, so check with your library.

933
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 3: See if it's in your library. See if it's on Libby.

934
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 3: You can read it an e book. So check that out.

935
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Jasmine.

936
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 1: This was really really fun and I learned a lot

937
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 1: about bon Ahead Sharks. Now it's time to play a

938
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: little game called guests Who's Squawking? The Mystery Animal sound Game?

939
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 1: Full disclosure, I am recording this in the future, which

940
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 1: I guess is your past, but the future from when I.

941
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 2: Recorded the rest of the podcast.

942
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:57,120
Speaker 1: Anyways, So last week's episode was a rerun because I

943
00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: needed a little vacation called lap camels, and so this

944
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 1: was the mystery animal sound hint from that episode it

945
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 1: was you may find these little dudes booging to an

946
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:12,280
Speaker 1: imaginary beat, but it's probably for the prey that lies

947
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 1: beneath their feet, h.

948
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 2: So cute.

949
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 1: Congratulations to Sherry Ce for guessing correctly that this is

950
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 1: the American woodcock. It is pretty Internet famous for walking

951
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 1: in a very particular rhythmic fashion, which is thought to

952
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 1: possibly be to create vibrations under the earth that mimics

953
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 1: that of rain, which would then drive worms up to

954
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 1: the surface. But yes, it makes that adorable little ink sound,

955
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:53,920
Speaker 1: and it is also.

956
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 2: The bird itself.

957
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 3: Very very cute.

958
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:56,480
Speaker 2: All right.

959
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:59,919
Speaker 1: So two weeks ago we had an episode called Hot

960
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 1: Sharks Summer. Highly recommend listening to that one if you

961
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 1: haven't already given that this one. If you liked the

962
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,160
Speaker 1: sharks on this when we talk about other sharks there.

963
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 1: But the mystery animal sound hint was this, don't talk

964
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 1: with your mouth full.

965
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:28,200
Speaker 2: Sorry I can't stop laughing.

966
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 1: Okay, So congratulations to Ari L.

967
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:35,840
Speaker 2: M roots K for guessing.

968
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 1: Correctly that this is a harbor seal enjoying a fish

969
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 1: with his snoot in the water.

970
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 2: Very cool.

971
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 1: So I'm going to hold off on doing a new

972
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 1: mystery animal sound game because next week I plan to

973
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 1: do a listener Questions episode, so the week after I

974
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:54,919
Speaker 1: will do a new one when I have a guest on.

975
00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:59,160
Speaker 1: But yeah, because I'm doing a listener Questions episode next week,

976
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:01,440
Speaker 1: I have not put writing that. So if you do

977
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 1: have a question that you'd like me to answer, do

978
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:08,240
Speaker 1: write in and maybe I'll answer it next week, maybe

979
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 1: sometime in the future, or send you an email. And

980
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 1: I do love your questions, so write to me at

981
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:19,959
Speaker 1: Creature featurepodat gmail dot com. Thank you guys so much.

982
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 1: Thank you guys for listening. If you are enjoying the show,

983
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 1: if you leave a rating and review, that really does

984
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 1: help me and I do actually read every single one

985
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:35,440
Speaker 1: of them. And thanks to the Space Classics for their

986
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 1: super awesome song XO Lumina. Creature features a production of iHeartRadio.

987
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:44,080
Speaker 1: For more podcasts like the one you just heard, visit

988
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts, or Hey gus, what where

989
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:49,120
Speaker 1: have you listened to your favorite shows?

990
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 2: I don't judge you.

991
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:52,200
Speaker 1: Not your mother, and I can't tell you what to

992
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 1: do except don't poke a shark unless you are being

993
01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 1: supervised by experts.

994
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:04,080
Speaker 2: See you next Wednesday. A MHM