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Speaker 1: In the early days of our friendship. I was amazed

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Speaker 1: by Mala Guancar, then founding partner of Lumpine Capital. How

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Speaker 1: could this high achieving woman be so uniquely calm, thoughtful

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Speaker 1: and serene. We went to dinner in her home in

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Speaker 1: notting Hill. Entering this traditional London house, we were surrounded

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Speaker 1: by the best of brave and beautiful contemporary art and furniture.

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Speaker 1: When we went down to dinner, there she was. Malla

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Speaker 1: in the kitchen apron on finishing the curries, the rice,

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Speaker 1: the vegetables and the desserts she had cooked for us.

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Speaker 1: All I asked her over dinner what she was doing.

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Speaker 1: She spoke about her work in public health at Harvard

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Speaker 1: and with Atual guan Day, a book of short stories

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Speaker 1: she had just published, the immersive theater piece she was

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Speaker 1: doing with David Byrne, and a high risk skiing adventure

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Speaker 1: she'd just come back from with her two sons. Today,

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Speaker 1: ten years later, she is founder of Circo Capital, the

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Speaker 1: largest ever fund run by a woman. Okay, so, Mala,

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Speaker 1: do you chose of all the recipes, all our books,

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Speaker 1: pistachia cake And you made it sound as if like,

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Speaker 1: don't you know that I want to do pistasia cake,

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Speaker 1: So here we go with pistachia cake, red piboa.

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Speaker 2: So yes, pistachio cake, my very favorite. Must have made

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Speaker 2: it abou about one hundred times two hundred and seventy

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Speaker 2: grams of unsalted butter, one lemon, one vanilla pod, one

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Speaker 2: hundred grams of blanched almonds, one hundred and twenty grams

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Speaker 2: of pistachios, two hundred and fifty grams of castor sugar,

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Speaker 2: four eggs organic, forty grams plain flour, one lemon, sixty

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Speaker 2: grams of pistachios, fifty grams of castor sugar. Preheat the

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Speaker 2: oven to one hundred and fifty degrees centigrade. Line a

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Speaker 2: loaf tin and grease with twenty grams of the butter.

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Speaker 2: Soften the remaining butter, Grate the lemon peel, split the

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Speaker 2: vanilla pod and scrape the seeds. Grind the almonds and

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Speaker 2: pistachios together. Beat the butter and the sugar until light

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Speaker 2: and the eggs one at a time. Add the zest

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Speaker 2: and vanilla seeds, fold in the nuts and sive in

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Speaker 2: the flour. Spoon the mixture into the tin and bake

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Speaker 2: for forty five minutes. The cake is ready when a

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Speaker 2: spirit comes out clean. Leave to cool in the tin

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Speaker 2: for the topping. Grate the lemon, peel and squeeze the juice.

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Speaker 2: Have the pistachios. Mix the lemon juice with the sugar,

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Speaker 2: Boil until thick. Then add the zest. Stir in the pistachios,

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Speaker 2: and pour over the cake. Delicious for breakfast with a coffee,

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Speaker 2: or as a dessert with crimp fresh or anytime.

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Speaker 1: That made me want to have it. But I was

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Speaker 1: interested because I always think of you with the incredible

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Speaker 1: chutneese and with the curries and the food that you made,

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Speaker 1: and you chose a cake. Id you like to bake?

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Speaker 1: I just feel like.

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Speaker 2: To be a really good pastry chef, certainly in the

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Speaker 2: Western tradition, you have to. It's about precision, and I'm

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Speaker 2: terrible with precisions. Oh kind of person, say a little

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Speaker 2: bit of sour, a little bit sweet.

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Speaker 3: I'm terrible at cakes.

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Speaker 2: And I felt that this was one of the few

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Speaker 2: recipes I could actually make. And there I was sort of,

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Speaker 2: you know, working mom to young boys with insatia of

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Speaker 2: appetites that seemed for pretty much anything, and this just

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Speaker 2: seemed just wonderful. It was just just a beautiful, lovely cake.

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Speaker 2: I must admit, though, Ruthie, I did. I did shift

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Speaker 2: it around. A great recipe is something that you can

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Speaker 2: build off right like like like any creative, beautiful thing.

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Speaker 2: And so what I did was, I you know, I

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Speaker 2: did grow up in South India, so I kind of

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Speaker 2: added let's see what did I did all kinds of

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Speaker 2: things that I kept the vanilla. I added loads of clothes,

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Speaker 2: clothes and cinnamon and cardamom.

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Speaker 1: Crown so you crown them together.

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Speaker 2: I pounded all of those up and put them in

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Speaker 2: the cake. I put them in the cake. I didn't

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Speaker 2: put the topping. It's a bit of a rush, but

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Speaker 2: that and that just you know, there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: you know this probably but you know, cinnamon can replace

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Speaker 2: and did in medieval times.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, so that's what I did.

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Speaker 1: I would say the recipe is half poetry and half

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Speaker 1: science as well. Yes, you know, so we kind of

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Speaker 1: you know, you taste, the precision is really important. But

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Speaker 1: I'm interested that you had the clothes and the climbs,

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Speaker 1: and I'd like to try it. But then did you

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Speaker 1: still at the pistaches at the end?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I just put the pistache at the top.

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Speaker 3: I left out the lemon and the sugar.

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Speaker 1: You have cake for breakfast.

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Speaker 3: I have not a cake for breakfast in a.

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Speaker 1: Long time Italian. You know, Italians have their cakes in

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Speaker 1: the morning, they have their cakes for breakfast, They have

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Speaker 1: their ice creams on the street, and then they have

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Speaker 1: a coffee for dessert. You know, in this presso so

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Speaker 1: there's always a cake, a dry cake to have for breakfast. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No, in South India it's really more just a little

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Speaker 2: sombar of sort of lentils or russum of lentils and

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Speaker 2: spices and tomatoes and then some sort of steamed rister

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Speaker 2: lentil cake like an Italy or maybe it does.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about that. Your eyes light up when

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Speaker 1: you start talking about clothes and cardonmen and lentils for

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Speaker 1: breakfast in South India. Tell me about this India think.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so my story is pretty straightforward in some ways

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Speaker 2: for you know, that period of sort of American Indian immigrants.

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Speaker 2: So soon as maybe people don't know this, as soon

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Speaker 2: as the Civil Rights Act was passed, there was also

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Speaker 2: change in the immigracial laws of people from being around

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Speaker 2: place of origin and the American and the restrictions in

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Speaker 2: place of origin, and so it was bailed, as you know,

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Speaker 2: and so as soon as that was lifted, my parents

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Speaker 2: were one of the first to come over to the

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Speaker 2: US become graduate students, became academics.

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Speaker 1: And what do you think that was like for them?

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Speaker 1: Do you think that was?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: I think if you and I Ruthie were go to Mars,

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Speaker 2: it would probably be less of the leap than it

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Speaker 2: was for them. So they both came on scholarships from

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Speaker 2: sort of rural really semi rural India, both in the sciences,

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Speaker 2: so my father in the mathematical sort of area and

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Speaker 2: my mother in molecular biology. So I think that was

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Speaker 2: a huge leap for them. And I think I'm consistently

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Speaker 2: sort of astonished by their bravery and the sort of

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Speaker 2: almost gallantry with which it sort of went out with

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Speaker 2: open curiosity to the world. And it's something I wish

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Speaker 2: I think we have a lot of in the world,

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Speaker 2: and I would love to see us all tap into.

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Speaker 3: That a bit more because it's only good for everyone.

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Speaker 2: And so yeah, no, I think it was something they

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Speaker 2: did with great gusto and we're very happy, but they're

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Speaker 2: also very happy to go back. And shortly after my

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Speaker 2: sister was born, when I was about six, we moved

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Speaker 2: back to India.

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Speaker 3: They wanted to go back.

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Speaker 1: Did they meet and India and come together, actually have

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Speaker 1: an arranged marriage.

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Speaker 2: They met in India, moved over here together, and then

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Speaker 2: we moved back. As I said, when I was six

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Speaker 2: or so, we moved to Bangalore. And that's where they

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Speaker 2: came from. They came from just south of Goa. So

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Speaker 2: they come from the coast, the Molivard coast, which is

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Speaker 2: a haven up all of his spice.

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Speaker 3: Growing as as you might know. And so that's very much, yeah,

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Speaker 3: very much.

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Speaker 2: And it come from a family of sort of academic

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Speaker 2: social workers. I'm really the black sheep of the family,

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Speaker 2: someone went into the vulgar world of commerce and never

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Speaker 2: got a PhD. So that's where I grew up in Bangalore.

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Speaker 2: That's very much part of my life until especially until

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Speaker 2: seventeen when I came back to came to the US

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Speaker 2: and then went off to school.

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Speaker 1: And what was home life like? Did your mother work

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Speaker 1: and your father worked?

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Speaker 3: Did you both of my parents worked?

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Speaker 2: I I'd say neither one of them was really sort

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Speaker 2: of you know, affiliated with a stove in any particularly

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Speaker 2: distinguished way.

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Speaker 3: But we got along.

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Speaker 2: My grandmother was maternal grandmother in particularly a great cook,

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Speaker 2: and so she you know, showed me if she always

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Speaker 2: had something pickling. Yeah, it seemed like anything could be pickled.

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Speaker 2: I think at one point she even pickled banana skins,

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Speaker 2: believe it or.

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Speaker 1: Not, skins.

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Speaker 2: Interesting wasn't successful, but she she tried. She pickled high

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Speaker 2: biscus flowers, She pickled gooseberries.

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Speaker 1: Did your grandmother live near you? Was she in the house.

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Speaker 3: She didn't.

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Speaker 2: We lived in Bangalore. She lived in the coast, but

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Speaker 2: she would come visit.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember the meals we had around the table

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Speaker 1: in Bangalore when you were between six and seventeen? Did

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Speaker 1: you go to school? Come home?

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Speaker 2: Sweet dad? So in India there's this whole did you

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Speaker 2: take your little tiffin carrier as they call it, with

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Speaker 2: these stack little stainless steel boxes, and they all have

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Speaker 2: it's a whole sort of bento box ritual to it,

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Speaker 2: and so all these Arabasic traditions around how many sours

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Speaker 2: and how many sweets and everything sort of architected. But

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Speaker 2: you know, I took my little tip in mind was

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Speaker 2: a bit less polished, but I take my little lunch

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Speaker 2: box to school, and I remember that the tastes of

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Speaker 2: sort of yogurt and rice and pickles.

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Speaker 1: And what did you have for breakfast?

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Speaker 3: Usually just a.

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Speaker 2: Very simple you know, like a dosa and some lentils

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Speaker 2: or something like that. And then you'd come home to

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Speaker 2: very simple supper. So it was it wasn't anything primarily vegetarian, right,

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Speaker 2: So it was that's but I have it was delicious

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Speaker 2: because the food was very fresh and you know this routie,

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Speaker 2: you know what that's all about.

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Speaker 3: And so going to the vegetables bizarre.

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Speaker 1: And the markets with the markets like in India, I've

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Speaker 1: never been to a market.

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Speaker 3: The markets were overwhelming.

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Speaker 2: I mean everything is that, but you had big piles

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Speaker 2: of just endless varieties of chili's or endless rides of greens.

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Speaker 2: I was recently in Mexico and the markets they're very

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Speaker 2: much reminded me of of India. And you know, you

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Speaker 2: know what to do, and you know to you learn

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Speaker 2: how to buy things. It's nothing as shrink wrapped. You

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Speaker 2: can choose, right, so you think you snap the m

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Speaker 2: of the gooseber, you know what to look for. And

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Speaker 2: it's that I missed that very much. There was sort

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Speaker 2: of sensuality and shopping that.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes did you go with your mother or your grandmother, or.

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Speaker 2: I'd go with my grandmother or you know, our the

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Speaker 2: lady who helped out at the house, And yeah.

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Speaker 1: Did you love food? Even then, I was thinking of

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Speaker 1: you such a lover of food. And then we talk

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Speaker 1: about food, you'd tell you make food.

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Speaker 4: Food.

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Speaker 1: I did you know as a.

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Speaker 2: Child that you yes, yes, I still remember there was

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Speaker 2: a season for the when the Kashmiri apple juice season

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Speaker 2: would arrive and that would be actually affordable, and so

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Speaker 2: you know, I remember things like that, like I have

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Speaker 2: a very strong Pristian memory for these little flavors and smells.

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Speaker 3: And Indian street food as well.

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Speaker 2: And Indian street food is really just a spectacular celebration

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Speaker 2: I think of humanity.

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Speaker 3: It's just great.

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Speaker 1: Did your parents take you to restaurants in Bangalore?

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Speaker 2: Was that something at that time the eighties? I'd say

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Speaker 2: it was rare. I mean, Indian food was very much

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Speaker 2: about home cooking, and I think you'll probably have heard

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Speaker 2: that from others. It's less about a restaurant. I think

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Speaker 2: that fine dining idea is something that's developed more recently,

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Speaker 2: which is the growing prosperity of India and a rising

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Speaker 2: middle class, and I think it's fantastic. I mean, they're

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Speaker 2: Indian cooks and chefs and doing amazing things in India

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Speaker 2: right now. But that was less of the story, at

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Speaker 2: least of my specific fish and bangled. Did you have

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Speaker 2: very good fish? Yeah, there was really good fish. Less

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Speaker 2: so meat, but more it was more around fresh fish,

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Speaker 2: particularly in the coast, the Mall Park Costhen. I went

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Speaker 2: to visit my grandmother there.

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Speaker 1: That was did you cook with her grandmother or your mother?

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Speaker 2: I did. She actually had an open fire stove, so

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Speaker 2: it was a very you know, it was really wonderful.

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Speaker 2: This happened very kind of like what you have. Actually, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was a smaller and uh yeah. She would cook

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Speaker 2: all kinds of seafood on there and all the pickles

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Speaker 2: and the chutneys I mentioned. So, no, it was wonderful.

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Speaker 1: So you participate.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, all was great, but then we had to move back.

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Speaker 1: The cook of the family.

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Speaker 3: I didn't really cook in childhood as much.

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Speaker 2: It's more something I observed, and it's really something that

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Speaker 2: started once I went to university.

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Speaker 1: When you went back to university, did you all go

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Speaker 1: or was it just you you went by yourself.

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Speaker 2: I went by myself. I was at Harvard and wasn't

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Speaker 2: much opportunity for cooking there, But you know, that was

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Speaker 2: more just taking whatever it was offered to you in

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Speaker 2: the dying hall. Was that a kind of showing adding hot.

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Speaker 3: Sauce to it? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Was that shocking those I had a big adjustment going

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Speaker 1: from a home it was creating incredible food and markets

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Speaker 1: and smells and memories in your grandmother to Harvard where

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Speaker 1: you lived in a dorm and food was it was.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think the arc after that was though,

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Speaker 2: very much about I mean, you're so overwhelmed sort of

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Speaker 2: the intellectual curiosity of that time, right, you don't think

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Speaker 2: about food as much? Are You're absorbing so much new

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Speaker 2: in terms of relationships and friendships and ideas and people.

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Speaker 2: And I was just you know, becoming a young woman

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Speaker 2: with all the sort of uncertainties, and I mean it

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Speaker 2: was it was an interesting time.

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Speaker 3: It's almost like three failures in a funeral, it was like.

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Speaker 2: And literally the arc of that until now was very

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Speaker 2: much around you know, failing, failing better learning and then

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Speaker 2: iterating from there in terms of just you know, in life,

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Speaker 2: it's going a little bit away from its food into philosophy.

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Speaker 2: But I do think it's very important to make mistakes

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Speaker 2: and learn and fail a bit in life, because they're

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Speaker 2: all very intertwined. And I differentiate between failures of hubris

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Speaker 2: and failures of curiosity, and I think failures of curiosity

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Speaker 2: where you're just open mindly trying to try something and

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Speaker 2: maybe you mess it up, I think those are perfectly fine.

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Speaker 2: I think that's how you learn and you move on

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Speaker 2: as long as you're aware of it. And that's what

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Speaker 2: I meant by the three failures in a funeral in

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Speaker 2: the sense that I think my first class at Harvard

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Speaker 2: is one I actually did very poorly on, but it

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Speaker 2: was also the class that was most impactful. And it

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Speaker 2: was a class that the great philosopher John Rawls taught,

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Speaker 2: and it was on developing the ideal society. So what

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Speaker 2: we all had to do as a class was get

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Speaker 2: together and decide what would the ideal society be if

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Speaker 2: you didn't know anything about your status in that world,

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Speaker 2: if you didn't know what your race would be, your gender,

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Speaker 2: what you'd be endowed with in terms of talents or wealth,

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Speaker 2: what kind of society you create, and ultimately what we

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Speaker 2: decided is we don't know what we would be. We'd

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Speaker 2: want a society where the worst person off would be

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Speaker 2: not just okay, but actually flourish. We could well be

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Speaker 2: that person. It wasn't just about getting, you know, sort

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Speaker 2: of a pittance, and that really transformed I had a

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Speaker 2: very utilitary and very rational view of the world, and

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Speaker 2: it was my way of sort of coping, I think

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Speaker 2: also growing up in a very poor country. But that

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Speaker 2: really made sense to me. Finally, so even though the

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Speaker 2: class technically in terms of my transcript was a failure,

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Speaker 2: I'd argue in terms of just what it did to

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Speaker 2: my life and my mindset and what I did eventually

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Speaker 2: later trying to do a bit of good in the

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Speaker 2: world was transformative.

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Speaker 3: So that was probably failure number one.

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Speaker 2: I think then that led to I've met the people

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Speaker 2: I met in that class, led them to my first job, actually,

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Speaker 2: which I ended up getting fired from pretty quickly. Failure

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Speaker 2: number two. It's going to be a really exciting podcast.

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Speaker 3: Let's us go into it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'm just thinking about it in a way.

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Speaker 2: That kind of is how it laid out, and that

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Speaker 2: was working for working in Russia during the privatization program

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Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety one in Moscow. In Moscow and I

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Speaker 2: there briefly and then later in Mongolia, and the World

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Speaker 2: Bank really was I was really working for them through

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Speaker 2: Jeffrey Sachs, a professor at the time at Harvard. And

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Speaker 2: what was really interesting was that we went there with

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Speaker 2: such high hopes. And it's very relevant to the new

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Speaker 2: headlines we're saying nineteen ninety one. So August of nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety one is actually when the clup happened in Moscow,

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Speaker 2: the eltson and then December of that year with the

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Speaker 2: Soviet unency ceased to exist. It all happened very quickly

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Speaker 2: and are there, Yeah, we're there, And that was something

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Speaker 2: we went in with high hopes and then just realized

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Speaker 2: this is this is probably not going to work. And

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Speaker 2: ultimately that's right right away. I don't think I got

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Speaker 2: that right away. Actually I might stort of give myself

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Speaker 2: more credit than I deserve. But that's something I think

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Speaker 2: now looking back, was fairly clear, and that's something we

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Speaker 2: should have we should have addressed as a as a

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Speaker 2: broader policy map, not obviously as it twenty one year

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Speaker 2: old who was there for their first job, but that

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Speaker 2: then I ended up in Mongolia working there as well.

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Speaker 2: But I look back on that period of just such high, bigger,

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Speaker 2: you know, much obviously bigger issue than just me and

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Speaker 2: my journey. Was just this whole issue of how again

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Speaker 2: failures of hubris. I would argue, where we think we

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Speaker 2: have all the answers, but we're not listening to the

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Speaker 2: local community, and you know we can, we can as

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Speaker 2: a result of that mess up. And my first big

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Speaker 2: philanthropic project was really around sanitation and subsidized toilets for

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Speaker 2: you know, poorer populations across.

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Speaker 1: South Asia, South Asia.

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Speaker 2: That was my first step or you know, first worked

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Speaker 2: my first fund that was working really well, and wanted

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Speaker 2: to get back right away. I didn't want to sit

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Speaker 2: around and wait until I was some sort of elderly person.

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Speaker 2: And when I did that, I thought, oh, this is

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Speaker 2: going to be great. We got all the answers. This

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Speaker 2: is going to be about you know, better sanitation for all.

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Speaker 2: And you know that didn't really work either. It was

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Speaker 2: a complete I think when we visited some of these

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Speaker 2: toilets that we'd subsidize, most of them were being used

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Speaker 2: as chicken coops. Why that one was around, you know,

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Speaker 2: it might be lack of plumbing, and the other was

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Speaker 2: maybe around just cultural habits and what was appropriate what

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Speaker 2: wasn't appropriate. So longer story for maybe a different podcast,

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Speaker 2: but the bottom line is that was sort of another

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Speaker 2: failure at argue, more of curiosity and hope, but also

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Speaker 2: a bit of hubris there where I just stepped back

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Speaker 2: and realized, Okay, there's it's.

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Speaker 3: Important now to really listen.

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Speaker 2: And that leads me, sadly, I think, in some ways

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Speaker 2: to the funeral, which is Paul Farmer, whom I think

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Speaker 2: you know as well, really dear friend and a great

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Speaker 2: innovator in terms of how public health could be delivered,

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Speaker 2: and he and I work together pretty extensively on a

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Speaker 2: variety of projects that he did with many other plan

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Speaker 2: He was a real mentor to me in terms of

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Speaker 2: really listening to the community, understanding grounds up.

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Speaker 3: And so that's what I do, and that's what I do.

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Speaker 2: Whether I do it now is someone learning to cook,

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Speaker 2: or someone learning to gather friends, or someone learning to

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Speaker 2: be a better investor or philanthropists, that's very much about

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Speaker 2: listening to what's happening around the ground and observing rather

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Speaker 2: than as you make it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, do you remember the food in Moscow?

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Speaker 5: That you ate going, Oh, yes, food, absolutely, there wasn't

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Speaker 5: much deep but there was a good borsch every now

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Speaker 5: and then there was you know, a couple of solid dumplings,

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Speaker 5: very solid dumplings.

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Speaker 3: Mongolia was great.

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Speaker 2: That's where I had my first fermented mare's milk, which

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Speaker 2: it is like sour milk, that's what you would expect.

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Speaker 2: And then there was a lot of sort of lamb,

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Speaker 2: mutt and gristle and that was sort of it.

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Speaker 3: That was pretty grim.

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Speaker 1: Was it an urban context? You win?

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Speaker 4: It was.

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Speaker 2: There was about we're traveling around a lot, and it's

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Speaker 2: a large at that time certainly it was largely still

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Speaker 2: it's largely sort of rural nomadic society.

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Speaker 1: And have you been back to Russia since?

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Speaker 3: I haven't been back to Mongolia, but back to Russia.

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Speaker 1: And big change.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, caviar galor you can afford it, lots of fancy stuff.

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Speaker 6: Now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we wanted I think nineteen which was chairman of

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Speaker 1: the take, and we were trying to get an exchange

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Speaker 1: with the Hermitage for the and the Pushkin for they

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Speaker 1: have great matisas and they were at the Hermitage. We

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Speaker 1: were trying to exchange turners for a show and it was,

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Speaker 1: you know, I went wanting to love it, but it is.

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Speaker 1: It was complex, and certainly for us. I haven't been

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Speaker 1: back since then, so I've missed the whole wealth and

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Speaker 1: the restaurants and everything else. It's a good cuisine, that

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Speaker 1: wasn't it. Sean and I are here and we're talking

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Speaker 1: about that pistachio cake. I think it's a very delicious cake.

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Speaker 1: It's a cake that you can have any time of

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Speaker 1: day in that Italian way. But there's something about this cake,

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Speaker 1: and of course it's the pistachoes, which I always associate

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Speaker 1: with Lebanon, which feels almost Middle Eastern to me. The

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Speaker 1: green color, the nuts and the almonds. It just always

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Speaker 1: feels like something that you might not have in Italy,

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Speaker 1: but you might have as part of the meal you

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Speaker 1: were having it from Beirroot, for instance. Where do you

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Speaker 1: think about this cake?

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Speaker 4: It it's definitely a breakfast cake in my house. It's

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Speaker 4: really yummy, but it's tricky to make in volume. We

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Speaker 4: often have problems with it being oily because the nuts

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Speaker 4: can be mean.

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Speaker 1: I guess nuts of oily, aren't they. It isn't hard

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Speaker 1: to make that. You have to get it right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's all in the fineness of the grinding of

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Speaker 4: the almonds and the pistachios, and actually sometimes we put

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Speaker 4: a bit of flour. There's some of their flour through

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Speaker 4: the nuts when it gets folded in to sort of

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Speaker 4: hold the nuts stopping being to sort of mop up

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Speaker 4: some of the kind of oils.

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Speaker 1: I love this cake and I cannot remember how we

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Speaker 1: came up. I have a very strong recollection of just

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Speaker 1: making it over and over and over again till we

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Speaker 1: get it right. Did you know The River Cafe has

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Speaker 1: a shop. It's full of our favorite foods and designs.

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00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,760
Speaker 1: We have cookbooks, linen napkins, kitchen were, tote bags with

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00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,880
Speaker 1: our signatures, glasses from Venice, chocolates from Terin. You can

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00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,119
Speaker 1: find us right next door to the River Cafe in

437
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:29,760
Speaker 1: London or online at Shopthrivercafe dot co dot uk. So

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00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,399
Speaker 1: we're sitting here in the River Cafe. It's about seven

439
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,800
Speaker 1: thirty and we're about to go and have dinner. And

440
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,359
Speaker 1: of course I chose the quietest place in the whole

441
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,480
Speaker 1: of Thames Wharf to have a studio, except forgetting that.

442
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,760
Speaker 1: Some nights we have Sylvia's which is downstairs our private

443
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,879
Speaker 1: dining room and so the noise in the background is

444
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 1: a lot of people, probably fifty having celebrating something in

445
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,240
Speaker 1: Sylvia's having a drink, So that's the background noise. So

446
00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 1: I hope you can all hear us for cooking. You've

447
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,680
Speaker 1: involved in India with your grandmother and your your mother

448
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,760
Speaker 1: a bit, with Harvard, really not at all, and then Russia,

449
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,920
Speaker 1: you know, you were working and eating a bit. When

450
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:16,639
Speaker 1: did you then decide how important cooking and food was

451
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 1: to you or was it a decision? Did it happen?

452
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,160
Speaker 2: I think it came with the birth of my children,

453
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 2: you know, I think I really started thinking having spending

454
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:29,360
Speaker 2: time and allocating time to not just enjoying food obviously,

455
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:31,880
Speaker 2: but to really thinking about cooking again in a way

456
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 2: I hadn't in a long long time, and really returned

457
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,439
Speaker 2: to my children some way brought me back to my

458
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 2: own childhood in the sense of joy I got out

459
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 2: of food. And so I started very early with them,

460
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 2: you know, giving them all kinds of adventurous things. And

461
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 2: I was thirty when I had Lucas, my older son,

462
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 2: and thirty two when I had just under thirty too,

463
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,119
Speaker 2: actually when I had Row and my uncle one. So

464
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 2: I was you know, relative young mother. I just we

465
00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 2: just set up long Pine at the time in ninety eight,

466
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 2: so that was, you know, really relatively early on as

467
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 2: well in my career. So both a young working woman

468
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 2: and a mother.

469
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:09,640
Speaker 1: How did you come to England?

470
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:15,120
Speaker 2: We came to England, Oliver and I early in ninety

471
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 2: nine because of his work and also because I was

472
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,199
Speaker 2: setting up, you know, our little office here in London,

473
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,119
Speaker 2: so it was sort of a combination of factors, and

474
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 2: we stayed. We thought we'd stay here very briefly, but

475
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 2: we end up staying here twenty years.

476
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,679
Speaker 1: So then, did you before you had children? Did you

477
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 1: entertain or entertained?

478
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 2: I definitely loved cooking and both something I did with

479
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,479
Speaker 2: very much driven by recipes, and so I think what

480
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 2: really changed was this idea of thinking, going back to

481
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,920
Speaker 2: my Childhoo's sense, as sometimes constraints are good.

482
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 3: Constraints force you to be great.

483
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,440
Speaker 2: So my big constraint was time and not being able

484
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 2: to shop for every single ingredient on some obscure recipe list,

485
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:51,919
Speaker 2: which is what I did a bit more up when

486
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,680
Speaker 2: I entertained very formally for people on a Friday night

487
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 2: after work. Now it was got to get delicious things

488
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 2: on you want your children to enjoy it, and so

489
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 2: I would just say, Okay, the recipe requires a lemon,

490
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 2: you know what, Let's just try tamarant that's sour too.

491
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 3: Let's see what that does.

492
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,919
Speaker 2: And so this mixing of different ingredients, different flavors and

493
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,439
Speaker 2: combining them, even though it might be completely different specific

494
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 2: things from the recipe I just mentioned with your beautiful

495
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 2: pistachio cake, that's something. And actually the pistachio cake was

496
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 2: something I started very early with them, which is why

497
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 2: I have such great memories of it.

498
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 1: That was in the Easy Book.

499
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 2: I loved it because what was so great about that

500
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,400
Speaker 2: book and how you constructed that book, Ruthie, was how

501
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 2: you thought about the ingredients and really foregrounding the ingredients.

502
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 2: And that gave me courage as a cook to really

503
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 2: think about the ingredients as something that could be malleable,

504
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 2: you know, like people are malleable. Recipes going to be malleable.

505
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 2: And I had so much fun with that book.

506
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 3: It's such a such.

507
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: A nice way. When we did it, we also thought

508
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,479
Speaker 1: that what we wanted to do. What's hard about cooking is,

509
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 1: you know, shopping and then the preparation and then you know,

510
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: the presentation if you will, But the shopping, we tried

511
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,400
Speaker 1: to say, okay, we're going to give you a shop list,

512
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 1: you know. We did the ingredients almost like a shopping list,

513
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: so you could almost you know, tear it out or

514
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 1: write it down a photocopy in those days probably and

515
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: take it and then you could go to the shop

516
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: with the with the ingredients, and they were all We

517
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 1: tried to do ingredients that were accessible because shopping isn't

518
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: real pain I mean the restrictions of a working woman

519
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: to having our men to have to go to something

520
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,679
Speaker 1: on the way home from work. It's painful when you

521
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: want to go home and see your kids and help

522
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 1: them with their homework, you know, and then you have

523
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 1: to stop and shop.

524
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 2: And also, I think what it brought me that book

525
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 2: was really helpful because it also brought me back, not

526
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 2: just because of the ease. It took some of the

527
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 2: ease out of the ingredients and searching for those. It

528
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 2: also started making me think back to what my grandmother

529
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 2: had told me, which is thinking in proportions, right, so

530
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 2: not rigidly in terms of quantities, but really ratios of flavors.

531
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,360
Speaker 2: And that's really why I think what turned me from

532
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 2: someone who just followed a recipe into someone who's really

533
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,719
Speaker 2: a proper cook who really saw you are cooking as

534
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 2: a creative activity and outlet and something that it became

535
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 2: a passion in a way. That and so I oiled

536
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 2: lot to you in that book.

537
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 1: But does the Indian influence do you? Like you used

538
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 1: cardonmol and cloves and cinnamon for the cake. Does that

539
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 1: does something you inherently sort of go for is to

540
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 1: see how you can make this recipe more exotic by

541
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 1: doing something from your childhood to it that you yes, I.

542
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 2: Mean my sister gave me. I don't know if you've

543
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 2: seen these big spice dubbles that they have in India

544
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 2: where you have sort of little trays and a big

545
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 2: oh yeah, it's a palette. It's like just like a

546
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 2: paint palette. And that's how I think about spices. It's

547
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,439
Speaker 2: just how to combine them. And you know, my first

548
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 2: gift to my partner David was really all was just

549
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 2: a big trays of these spices and how you could

550
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 2: combine them.

551
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 3: And I think it's just such a just enormously fun.

552
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 1: And you go to India or you eat food from

553
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 1: a different culture, it does make you think how boring

554
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: a lot of our food is. You know, It's just

555
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 1: it's delicious and it's interesting and the olive oil is strong.

556
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: But then that kind of assault on these senses that

557
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: you have from what's your favorite Indian food? What if

558
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: you I like southern Indian. But I've only been to

559
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: India twice. We went once to the Jaipur out of

560
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: the Delhi part, which I actually really loved just a lot,

561
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: which at the children. And then when we went to

562
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: the south, we went to Goa and down to Kerala,

563
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: and I was very attracted to that food. It's very perfumely, interesting,

564
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: light fishy, and yeah, I like that very much.

565
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 3: It's more sort of coconut milk off the base. It's

566
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 3: a little lighter.

567
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: And when was the last time you were in India?

568
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 3: I was in India in February of this year.

569
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 2: Actually, yes, yeah, I went.

570
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,199
Speaker 3: To Bombay Mumbais we're supposed to call it now.

571
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 2: Well, I usually go there into the south to Bangalore,

572
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 2: and it was again you go there, and yes, it's

573
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 2: about work and meeting people and seeing friends, but yes,

574
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 2: it's almost always about food as well.

575
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: Well, you asked me what was my food that I love.

576
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: For Mindiya, what is the food that you love most?

577
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 1: Is there a region that you particularly like?

578
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 2: I think, like you, Ruthy, I liked South Indian cuisine.

579
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 2: But I think there's some amazing food's obviously from from

580
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 2: the north that I sort of think of as you know,

581
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,479
Speaker 2: just indulgences, the breads and the use of tundor and

582
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 2: how that, how that has come about. But in terms

583
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 2: of the or the luck now has just amazing cuisine,

584
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 2: the d you know, the seal, the pots and clay,

585
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 2: and there's amazing stuff there. But what I really love

586
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 2: is that South Indian food in terms of the emphasis

587
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 2: on spices and the mix of different kinds of spices.

588
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 3: It's it's it's very it's like.

589
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 2: A burst of flay, different flavors all layered.

590
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 3: And I love that idea of layering.

591
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 2: Whether it's music or literature or cooking, it shouldn't just

592
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 2: be a one note wonder of a thing. And so

593
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 2: that's that's what I really love about that cuisine, whether

594
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 2: it's from Kerala or Tamil now.

595
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: And it's different region, isn't that It's it's.

596
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 2: Very different region to region. Yes, even within the South

597
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 2: I think people forget, but there are multiple layers and

598
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 2: regions to that. But that's that's the food I think

599
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 2: about when I think how do I how do you

600
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 2: recreate that?

601
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that sense of feeling.

602
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 1: I really love to think of you is as a

603
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: cook because of my friends. You know, I have friends

604
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: with cooked I have friends who give dinner parties and

605
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: they're great, and they have friends with gardens. I have

606
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: friends with vegetables. But you you have a farm. So

607
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 1: should we talk about the farm where we had the

608
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 1: apple juice of the gems and the chutneys and everything.

609
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: So tell us about that farm.

610
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 2: Yes. So the idea behind that I work with Mark,

611
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 2: who's our gardener there really closely to just grow the

612
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 2: kinds of things that we wouldn't be able to find

613
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 2: normally otherwise. And we ended up also doing a lot

614
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 2: of you know, heritage native species that you wouldn't normally

615
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 2: find otherwise that are sort of going dying out. Well,

616
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 2: one thing we decided to do is start growing the

617
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 2: sort of rare type of metal or fruit, and some

618
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 2: really interesting odd plums, those parts, all those kinds of things.

619
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 2: And then I realized that they're all of these medlers

620
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 2: that are native to Sussex. That apparently they call all

621
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 2: kinds of rude names because I think the local name

622
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 2: for the metal fruit we group was called like monkeys

623
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 2: ass or something like that. I mean, it's all kinds

624
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 2: of like bizarre names.

625
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 3: I just loved. And so we had a bunch of those,

626
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 3: just a variety of those.

627
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 2: One season and they just spank high heaven really but

628
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 2: I pickled them as I did.

629
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 3: That was fine, went in doubt.

630
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 2: So those those were modestly improved by that. And then

631
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 2: we had a whole spate of different kinds of flowers,

632
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 2: you know, just local flowers, some edible flowers.

633
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: It isn't organic and sustainable, as I just oric, did

634
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: you change the soil or did you had you.

635
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 2: It was very chalky as it's in South Down, so

636
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 2: it's very chalky. So yes, it had to be improved

637
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 2: us with our local just vegetable waste to be composted

638
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 2: and stuff. We brought in a lot of fish blood apparently,

639
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 2: which is brought in for the Yeah, all those that

640
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: we compass soil over whatever twelve fIF years.

641
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 3: And it became which is much better over time, and.

642
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: What you have now that you grow what is yours?

643
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 2: Made similar? We try and new new different things. We

644
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 2: still have the meddlers, by the way, cause you're interested.

645
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 2: And yeah, still the plums, still the apples.

646
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: As you know, mesty foot vegetables.

647
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 2: Lots of kale and charred and different kinds of variety.

648
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 3: Verbs krispy krispy kale.

649
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, yeah, exactly.

650
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: Tell us how you make that?

651
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 2: That's a good one.

652
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 3: That's you take.

653
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 2: We make a hoist and sauce with the plums and

654
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 2: we grow and then we mix in a little bit

655
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 2: of cashew nut butter believe it or not, and then

656
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 2: a bit of soy sauce and marrin and a bit

657
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 2: of chili and just put in the dehydrator and.

658
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 3: There you go.

659
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: How long have you had the fun?

660
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, it's like twenty two thousand and five or

661
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 2: something like that. Yeah, it's where really my children grew

662
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 2: up in a way, it's very much part of my

663
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 2: love of sort of Britain and everything we've we've learned here.

664
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's that's what it is. And now what

665
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 2: I'm trying to do there is actually encourage more woman

666
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 2: gardeners because I think it's such a great profession and

667
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 2: such a great part of England's heritage. So we've been

668
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 2: encouraging more sort of interns there under Mark who are

669
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 2: sort of from the local horticultural college, so things like that.

670
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 2: That's been great and just having that be part of

671
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 2: the food. No, we don't have animals except for bees.

672
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 2: We do have bees.

673
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, the honey. Yeah, how's that?

674
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 2: Oh, that's sort of alternous cycles of joy and heartbreak

675
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 2: because you know, it's tricky sometimes with the weather and

676
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 2: you know, so we've had the one thing I've learned

677
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 2: is you to keep the beehives really high up, and

678
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 2: it's we were just way too close to the ground.

679
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 2: I think that's a big mistake that early beepers make.

680
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

681
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they don't like the damp.

682
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: They don't like the damp.

683
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 2: Well, if you think about it, naturally they put their

684
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 2: eyes way high up. Why why why am i so?

685
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: And do you flavor your honey? Do you do different

686
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: types of honey or.

687
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 2: My son, younger son encouraged me to start putting chili

688
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 2: into the honey, which has been a great success.

689
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: If you like listening to Ruthie's table for would you

690
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: please make sure to rate and review the podcast on

691
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get

692
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Thank you. You mentioned David, Yes, and that's

693
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: David Byrne, and you brought him to meet me in

694
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: the River Cafe a few years ago, some years ago,

695
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: because he was just intrigued about how, as many how

696
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: a restaurant works. I'm intrigued to know how a fund works,

697
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: and I'm intrigued to know how being somebody from content

698
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: and producers work. But it really is interesting to people.

699
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 1: I think, how does the motzarell rive at the same

700
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:48,959
Speaker 1: time as a pasta? And how do you order? And

701
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: he was very he seemed to be much more interested,

702
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: almost as much as how we write the menu. We

703
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: do write the menu in a kind of unique way,

704
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: which is that we do it every differently for every meal.

705
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: What is his interest in food?

706
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 2: He likes just very similar to me. I think it's

707
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: just a wonderful thing. It's it's food as a form

708
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 2: of love. You know, that's what you offer your friends

709
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 2: and your family, and it's a creative act as well.

710
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 2: And I think one thing, Yes, that was actually a

711
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: really fantastic day. I was really great to just come

712
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 2: here and put the menu together, and and and and

713
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 2: sort of see how everything was put together in a

714
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 2: sort of magical place.

715
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: Hey, we see, Hi, sad here we are. We've spoke with.

716
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 7: Lots of artists and actors and musicians, and you sort

717
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 7: of see a logical journey from their creative work they

718
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 7: do in the studio to their work in the kitchen.

719
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 7: We haven't spoken that many business people who have this

720
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 7: passion for cooking, and I wonder if that's us being

721
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 7: now reminded, whether that you are quite unique in that

722
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 7: in that sense.

723
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 2: I think that, well, I'm sure there are many business

724
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 2: people who love cooking, because I firmly believe that business

725
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 2: is a creative activity when done well. I think any

726
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 2: when I define creative activity as connecting different areas and

727
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 2: fresh and new ways, and that if you're good at

728
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 2: pretty much anything, you have to think creatively, no matter

729
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 2: what it is. And as a result of that, I

730
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 2: don't necessarily see the dichotomy maybe as much as might

731
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 2: otherwise seem from the outside. And I also think if

732
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 2: you're someone who's a philanthropist and wants to do well,

733
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 2: particularly in the public health area, thinking about the business

734
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 2: of food and the public health aspects of food and

735
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 2: the creative aspects of food are actually quite intertwined in

736
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,879
Speaker 2: some really interesting ways. I mean, one thing I think

737
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 2: a lot about and I don't know if this is statistic,

738
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 2: you all of you knew, but one thing I was

739
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 2: sent was a introduction of high fructose corn syrup into

740
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 2: the American food industry was nineteen seventy and back then

741
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 2: the obesity rate was relatively deminimous. And you progress that

742
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 2: ninety and hygrictos corn circus half of all sugar used,

743
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 2: and now forty percent is a pc rate. So that

744
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 2: sort of the business of food and how that has

745
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 2: made food process food at least much more actually addictive.

746
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 3: And there's some great books on this.

747
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 2: Moss has written a great book called Hooked on This,

748
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 2: and you lead that into the public health aspects of

749
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 2: what that's led to. I think about that a lot.

750
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 2: So I think about food is really just such a

751
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 2: core aspect of our society and cultural identities.

752
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,280
Speaker 1: It tells you about a culture, It tells you about society,

753
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: It tells you about a city. I would say, out

754
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 1: of the market the first time we get to a city,

755
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: because it tells.

756
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 3: You that he tells you everything.

757
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 2: The one thing that actually in food that Dave and

758
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:40,919
Speaker 2: I learned a lot about was just how the brain

759
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 2: processes food, which is interesting for tell you as well,

760
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,839
Speaker 2: which is we did this project called Theater of the Mind.

761
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 2: We wrote this theater piece together that ended up running

762
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 2: in Denver and run a few other cities. And as

763
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 2: part of that, one thing we learned is how the

764
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 2: brain creates these illusions around taste. And have you ever

765
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 2: heard of this West African miracle berry? So David told

766
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 2: me about it. I actually haven't heard it. Heard about

767
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 2: it first from him. So it's a West African berry.

768
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 2: It's a little bush about two meters high. It has

769
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 2: these olive shaped little red berries, and you chew on

770
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 2: it just tastes quite bulerable and it binds to the

771
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,760
Speaker 2: sweet receptors in your tongue. And anytime you eat anything sour,

772
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 2: it activates the sweet receptors, so you get this burst

773
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,479
Speaker 2: of sugar in your mouth. So you literally you're chewing

774
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 2: on a lemon. Ever, I mean just like just until

775
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 2: it lasts a couple of years, you chew on it.

776
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 2: You can chew on a lemon and it literally tastes

777
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 2: like it tastes like a you know, like a Sunday

778
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 2: ice cream Sunday, and it's amazing.

779
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 3: It's this crazy kind of experiences. So we put that

780
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 3: into our theater piece.

781
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 2: It's an immersive theater piece that people went through and

782
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 2: people start screaming because you're such an intimate part of

783
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 2: your sense, you know, your sensory system to have this

784
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 2: like the lemons something sweet. Yeah, And so they were

785
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 2: all kinds of littles.

786
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: We were tusting things like that, you're immersive. I was

787
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 1: talking to Will you were.

788
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 6: Going to ask, Yeah, I just was interested because something

789
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 6: that comes up on the podcast, as Ruthie says, food

790
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 6: is memory. And obviously there's so much a connection between

791
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,320
Speaker 6: taste and smell. And do you think that our connection

792
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 6: with food and memory is as strong as we think

793
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 6: it is or do you think that it's intangible and

794
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 6: changes time?

795
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 2: And I think memories are definitely malleable. I mean that's

796
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 2: not me speaking, that's just you know, what we've.

797
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 3: Learned over the years.

798
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 2: And I think we should think about our brains not

799
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 2: as direct processors and senses out there. We construct the

800
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,320
Speaker 2: world every time we look at the world, So what

801
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 2: we see is not a specific radio frequency. What we

802
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 2: see is really something our brain is constructed as an image,

803
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 2: and there are all kinds of evidence for that. For example,

804
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 2: we don't see the blind spots in our eyes, we

805
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 2: just paper them over. So our brain constructs the world,

806
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 2: and I think that's taste as part of that. And

807
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 2: I think every time we remember something, since our brain

808
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 2: is really about learning, it's not really about being a photocopier, right,

809
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 2: what's used is that evolutionarily speaking, since our brain is

810
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 2: a learning engine, we revise the memories as come along

811
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:02,720
Speaker 2: to suit what is best for us, and to update

812
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 2: them based upon what we've learned since that memory was

813
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 2: initially formed. And so I think memories are infinitely valuable

814
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 2: as a result, and there's a lot of really interesting

815
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 2: research on that, and also how false memories can be

816
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,399
Speaker 2: ascribed to People's been interesting research on that as well.

817
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 2: So I think one thing we learned about with all

818
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 2: of our research when David and I went to Labs

819
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 2: to construct the Theater of the Mind immersive theater piece

820
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 2: that you talked about, a lot of it was around

821
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 2: how memory is really malleable and in a way that's

822
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 2: really good so people can go through life and they're

823
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,879
Speaker 2: not stuck. You know, there's always a possibility of change,

824
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 2: which I really fundamentally see is a hopeful thing that

825
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 2: we can evolve and move on from memories in the past.

826
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 2: So yes, I do think it's malleable to answer your question.

827
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 1: They certainly talk about people's memories here, and I just

828
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 1: say that to as William said, that food is memory

829
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 1: and memory is food. Many people's memories come back when

830
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 1: they start talking about the food there. I've had just

831
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: in the interviews we've done, people say, oh my god,

832
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: I never I don't remember that until I started talking

833
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 1: about my father when he divorced my mother and I

834
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,439
Speaker 1: was eight, that suddenly he started cooking because he wanted

835
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 1: us to know that things. You know that he could

836
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: do that, or you know, he is an expression of

837
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: his love and mel Brooks at age ninety eight. Remember,

838
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: he says, unless it's a malleable memory that he remembers

839
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,359
Speaker 1: the name of the woman who cooked him his first

840
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 1: pasta when he was eight, so ninety years ago, he

841
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: can remember her name because the food. He can't remember

842
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: the person who taught him to tie his shoes, but

843
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 1: he can remember somebody who taught him to make a pasta,

844
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: and then the memories of sad memories, somebody making something

845
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 1: for you before they died, or you know, somebody wanted

846
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,959
Speaker 1: to eat something, you know, but as they were dying,

847
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 1: and it is you know, yeah, it's all to do

848
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: with I mean, I'm sure there are other smells probably

849
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: bring back memories, and pain brings back memories. But food

850
00:39:58,239 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: do you think it does?

851
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 2: Absolutely right with you? And really it really does. I

852
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 2: think a lot about sort of my favorite foods and

853
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 2: and what I do when I'm trying to recreate some

854
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 2: of them. Some of them are not even ones that

855
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 2: were in a recipe. They're just ones I remember having

856
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 2: had or maybe it was at a restaurant such as yours,

857
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 2: or maybe it was but you're so generous with your recipes.

858
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 3: But you know, maybe it was.

859
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 2: Something that my grandmother and aunt cooked for me or yeah,

860
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 2: and and and those are the those are the memory

861
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 2: I'm trying to recreate, you know, in my kitchen.

862
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: And you were saying, your children and your mother, what

863
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: is and that connection? Is it a connection for them and.

864
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 3: For them as well? Yes, it's very much. Okay, you're

865
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 3: coming over, what would you like to eat? It's a

866
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:39,760
Speaker 3: feeling and so going.

867
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: To I suppose finding to the end, we would say,

868
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: if you needed to reach for some food, my friend,

869
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 1: beautiful friend, mama, for comfort, you wanted something to eat,

870
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 1: is there something you would go for?

871
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean I think of comfort as more a

872
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 2: sense of love or maybe even joy.

873
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 3: And we all need that, right, I mean, I certainly do.

874
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:05,280
Speaker 2: And I think of that as this very specific rossum

875
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 2: that my grandmother used to make for me when I

876
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 2: was ill, and it was this sort of garlic rossum.

877
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 2: And to the question earlier about memory, it was something

878
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 2: I never could make and I never quite figure out

879
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 2: the exact flavors. And this is a really interesting story.

880
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 2: And then someone told me about a woman who lived

881
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 2: in Chennai village in south in Tamil Nadu and her

882
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 2: mission in life, among other things she was accomplished in

883
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 2: many ways, was to do a compilation of all of

884
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 2: the pickle recipes and chutney recipes in Roussam's in South India.

885
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 2: And so she literally systematically went through and she had

886
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 2: the book and had gone out of print. So I

887
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,320
Speaker 2: actually wrote her and I got this little pdf in

888
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 2: the mail. Her name is Usha Prabakara and she literally

889
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 2: now she has it on Amazon. And there's one called

890
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 2: four Under Pickles and there's another one called A Thousand Russums.

891
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 2: And I could not recommend both of these books more.

892
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 2: And you can write her, what would you make it?

893
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 6: This is it?

894
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: This is the food. You go for it, but would you.

895
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 3: It's meant to It's very simple.

896
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 2: You just make it with a little bit of tour doll,

897
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 2: which is kind of lentil, and you grind that up

898
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 2: with coriander and cumin, and you mix it up with

899
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 2: essentially what I almost make like a lentil stock, lentil

900
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 2: and spice stock, and you add a bit of chili.

901
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 2: You know, it's called the third corp where you put

902
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 2: you mix and oils and mustard seeds and a bit

903
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 2: of chili.

904
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 3: And you can sprinkle it on top. It's delicious.

905
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 2: And you know, any cold you have, I'd be curious

906
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 2: guarantee you.

907
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 3: I love you, Thank you, Love you too, Ruthy, thank you.

908
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 6: Ruthie's Table for is produced by Atami Studios for iHeartRadio.

909
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 6: It's hosted by Ruthie Rogers and it's produced by William Lensky.

910
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 6: This episode was edited by Julia Johnson. And mixed by

911
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 6: Nigel Appleton. Our executive users are Fai Stewart and Zad Rogers.

912
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 6: Our production manager is Caitlin Paramore and our production coordinator

913
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 6: is Bella Selini. This episode had additional contributions by Sean

914
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 6: Wynn Owen. Thank you to everyone at The River Cafe

915
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 6: for your help in making this episode