Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big
Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they
Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners. Wherever
Speaker 1: you are in the world, it is so great to
Speaker 1: have you here. Back for another episode of the Psychology
Speaker 1: of Your Twenties. We have a lot to discuss today,
Speaker 1: a lot to learn, a lot of opinions to break
Speaker 1: down and to maybe confirm maybe not. I'm really excited
Speaker 1: for it because I think that the dilemma we are
Speaker 1: discussing today is a pretty common dilemma. I think nearly
Speaker 1: every single one of us comes across it at some
Speaker 1: point in our lives in our twenties. And what we
Speaker 1: are talking about today is disliking someone that one of
Speaker 1: your friends is dating. Okay, so let me paint a
Speaker 1: picture for you. Your friend has been single for a
Speaker 1: couple of years. You know that's been really hard for her.
Speaker 1: She really is a lover girl. She is someone who
Speaker 1: loves being monogamous. She likes creating a bit of a
Speaker 1: nest and a home with the partner, and that just
Speaker 1: kind of hasn't really been part of her story recently.
Speaker 1: She's just really struggled to find someone. She's been on
Speaker 1: all the apps, putting yourself out there, and then one
Speaker 1: day she meets someone and they've been dating for a
Speaker 1: couple of months, and you finally get to meet him,
Speaker 1: and you hate him. He is not your kind of guy.
Speaker 1: He's dismissive, he's arrogant, and your friend just cannot seem
Speaker 1: to see what is going on. She is like gushing,
Speaker 1: she is super in love, and suddenly he is turning
Speaker 1: up everywhere, as is expected when one of your friends
Speaker 1: is in love with someone you know. You go to
Speaker 1: the movies together, he's there. He's at every girl's night,
Speaker 1: every group outing, and the more opportunities you have to
Speaker 1: spend time with him, the more you actually grow to
Speaker 1: dislike him. So this is the dilemma. Do you say
Speaker 1: anything or you kind of bound into silence by the
Speaker 1: invisible pact we all have with our friends. You don't
Speaker 1: have to like everything that they do, but you do
Speaker 1: have to be supportive. I think that this experience is
Speaker 1: one that all of us can relate to. We can't
Speaker 1: be friends with everybody in the world. They're not all
Speaker 1: going to be our our cup of tea, And unfortunately,
Speaker 1: one of those people we don't get along with may
Speaker 1: be destined to end up with someone that we do
Speaker 1: love and we love a lot as their partner. I
Speaker 1: think this is especially common and perhaps felt more profound
Speaker 1: in our twenties for two reasons. Firstly, this is really
Speaker 1: a period of exploration and romantic discovery for a lot
Speaker 1: of us, right you know, we are exploring what we like,
Speaker 1: our type, the kind of people we see a future with,
Speaker 1: and there might be a few duds in there. There's
Speaker 1: probably going to be a few duds. Actually, that is
Speaker 1: a big part of dating in our twenties, being open
Speaker 1: to different people, even if they are not always the
Speaker 1: one per se. So, just as you may have dated
Speaker 1: people your friends despised of trust me, I have been there,
Speaker 1: I have done that. Your friends are also going through
Speaker 1: the same kind of romantic developmental chapter, and they're going
Speaker 1: to bring people into their life and by association, your
Speaker 1: life that you're just not going to like. Additionally, when
Speaker 1: we're talking about this decade of emerging adulthood, as psychologists
Speaker 1: would call it, our most important relationships are our friends
Speaker 1: and our partners compared to in our childhood and teenage years,
Speaker 1: when our parents and our families really played a bigger role.
Speaker 1: As we kind of leave the orbit of the family home,
Speaker 1: as we're kind of seeking independence, our friends become our
Speaker 1: support network. They are our confidence, They are the people
Speaker 1: that we probably spend the most time with. So sometimes
Speaker 1: these relationships can come into conflict, right, the relationship between
Speaker 1: your friends and your partner, especially if you're super close
Speaker 1: friends and you're finding that this new boyfriend or girlfriend
Speaker 1: or person is really getting in the way of a
Speaker 1: pre established and very deep bond. You can't help but
Speaker 1: dislike the disruption of the norm and this new person
Speaker 1: because they have changed the nature of your friendship, you know.
Speaker 1: Or it's just jealousy, Maybe it's personality differences. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: because there are really serious red flags that you know
Speaker 1: your friend cannot say. What do you do in those circumstances?
Speaker 1: Is it about keeping the peace versus speaking your mind?
Speaker 1: Do you have a right to get your point across
Speaker 1: or is it just one of those instances where you
Speaker 1: just have to stay silent and you just kind of
Speaker 1: have to handle this with grace spoiler alert, it's very nuanced,
Speaker 1: but I would say the majority of the time, I
Speaker 1: think it's only right to bite your tongue, with a
Speaker 1: few exceptions that we're going to discuss. That's what we're
Speaker 1: going to be talking about, because I know this feeling.
Speaker 1: I have been both both friends in this situation, right.
Speaker 1: I've been the friend who's been dating somebody that all
Speaker 1: of my friends said they hated and disliked and I
Speaker 1: didn't want to listen. And I've also been the person
Speaker 1: who's seen my friends in relationships like that and been like,
Speaker 1: what are they thinking? They need to leave? And there
Speaker 1: is actually quite a lot of psychology to pull from
Speaker 1: to describe some of this frustration, resentment, even sadness that
Speaker 1: we feel during these times, So let us get into it.
Speaker 1: I think it's best to first identify why you don't
Speaker 1: like your friend's partner, and how I see it is
Speaker 1: that we often don't like them for one of three reasons. Firstly,
Speaker 1: you don't like them personally because they just aren't your
Speaker 1: type of person, but they are your friends type of person.
Speaker 1: There is some personality or preference clash going on. Secondly,
Speaker 1: you don't like them because this new relationship has changed
Speaker 1: the nature of your friendship, meaning that your friend is
Speaker 1: perhaps less accessible, less available. They're canceling plans to be
Speaker 1: with their partner, and this kind of leads to a
Speaker 1: resentment that is projected onto this new person when really
Speaker 1: it's just coming from a place of adjustment and what
Speaker 1: I like to call growing pains. And finally, you don't
Speaker 1: like your friend's partner because of how they treat your friend.
Speaker 1: You are beginning to notice some behaviors that are major
Speaker 1: red flags, whether that be controlled manipulation, anger, sometimes even abuse,
Speaker 1: weaponized incompetence. There's a long list of things that we're
Speaker 1: going to get to, and I think that that final
Speaker 1: class of reasons is probably the only exception to the
Speaker 1: don't say anything rule. Right when you know that this
Speaker 1: is like kind of a question of safety, I do
Speaker 1: think you have a right to speak up, and we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about that in a second. These three
Speaker 1: reasons obviously differ greatly in severity, right, like one is
Speaker 1: a matter of liking, one is a matter of insecurity,
Speaker 1: and the final one is really a matter of, like
Speaker 1: we said, safety, So we're going to talk about these
Speaker 1: three reasons separately. I think they deserve a different kind
Speaker 1: of response, of course, starting with I would say the
Speaker 1: first situation, which is definitely the majority of instances in
Speaker 1: which we don't like our friend's partner, and it really
Speaker 1: comes down to the fact that our preferences clash and
Speaker 1: theer and that they chose is not the person that
Speaker 1: we would have chosen for them based on our preferences.
Speaker 1: There is just something about them that sticks out that
Speaker 1: we can't look past. Maybe they're arrogant, they're boring, they're lazy,
Speaker 1: they're rude, they have a job that we don't agree with,
Speaker 1: and as a result, we kind of get a second
Speaker 1: hand ick. It's really so interesting to me when this happens,
Speaker 1: because how is it that we can get along so
Speaker 1: well with someone that being our friend and not their partner,
Speaker 1: Because it's kind of like two limbs or branches, like
Speaker 1: sticking out of the same tree, right, Like you would
Speaker 1: think that they would be alike, but no, that is
Speaker 1: obviously not always the case. And a lot of this
Speaker 1: does come down to things that we independently decide for ourselves,
Speaker 1: like our non negotiables, like our deal breakers, like our
Speaker 1: preferences that our friends are just not always going to
Speaker 1: share let's talk about the psychology this for a little while.
Speaker 1: So each of us has a unique profile of what
Speaker 1: we find attractive in someone, or what we would call
Speaker 1: mating preferences in psychology. So thing is mating preferences. I know,
Speaker 1: it sounds like super reductive. These preferences. They derive from
Speaker 1: a number of factors such as genetics, genetic imprinting, which
Speaker 1: essentially says that we seek out partners who resemble our parents,
Speaker 1: really strange things like pheromones and their influence on sexual attraction,
Speaker 1: attachment style, self perception, self esteem, what feels familiar and
Speaker 1: safe to us. There is a whole number of studies
Speaker 1: that looks at what it is that creates this unique profile.
Speaker 1: That last factor is especially the target of a lot
Speaker 1: of academic consideration. We are attracted to people who feel
Speaker 1: like they complement us or they're similar to ourselves, based
Speaker 1: on things like values, education level, economic status, how we
Speaker 1: were raised, even race. This may explain why we often
Speaker 1: see people date in their own league. And I know
Speaker 1: that is a really weird and reductionist phrase and a
Speaker 1: weird thing to say, but it kind of turns out
Speaker 1: to be true. It's not always about physical attraction. It's
Speaker 1: more about dating people who are aligned with you. We
Speaker 1: are more attracted to people who are like us in
Speaker 1: some domain, and we're seeing more research say that if
Speaker 1: someone meets our core requirements, we may tend to overlook
Speaker 1: or justify other things about them that may not be
Speaker 1: one hundred percent what we want. There is, of course,
Speaker 1: also the theory that opposites attract. There's obviously some I
Speaker 1: would say some evidence for that that, you know, we
Speaker 1: choose people based on our own weaknesses, based on their
Speaker 1: strengths that kind of counteract our weaknesses. Better to say
Speaker 1: it like that. So if we are insecure, we seek
Speaker 1: out a partner who is confident. If I don't know,
Speaker 1: we like the color yellow, we seek out a partner
Speaker 1: who likes the color blue, and then we have the
Speaker 1: full spectrum. You know, I don't fully think that that
Speaker 1: is true. That is a much more psychoanalytic theory and
Speaker 1: has less evidence, but I think nonetheless we've kind of
Speaker 1: been sidelined. Everything kind of combines to create this profile, right.
Speaker 1: What we find familiar creates a profile. What we find
Speaker 1: attractive based on our past creates this profile. Our education
Speaker 1: level creates this profile. Our attachment creates this profile, and
Speaker 1: this is going to be different for all of us.
Speaker 1: None of us are going to be the same. None
Speaker 1: of us are going to have the exact same background,
Speaker 1: the exact same upbringing, genetics, emotional and relationship history. Even
Speaker 1: like if you think about like your siblings, even people
Speaker 1: who are siblings end updating people who are so different.
Speaker 1: So their standards are going to differ between you and
Speaker 1: your friend, and it's frustrating. But you kind of just
Speaker 1: have to be there to watch that and be there
Speaker 1: to accept that what you might look for someone they're
Speaker 1: not looking for as well. I think the reason this
Speaker 1: can be so uncomfortable is because you really want what's
Speaker 1: best for them. This is someone you adore and cherish,
Speaker 1: you obviously think is incredible. Very few people can meet
Speaker 1: the standard that you've set for your friend in your
Speaker 1: own mind, and we want to protect them from pain. Right.
Speaker 1: It's very easy in those circumstances to think, you know,
Speaker 1: I know what is best, I know how to protect
Speaker 1: my friend. I know that this relationship isn't gonna work.
Speaker 1: They need to just listen to me, and they would
Speaker 1: avoid so much pain. I get it. You want to
Speaker 1: be their eyes whilst love is kind of buying them
Speaker 1: in a way, and whilst they're getting carried away in
Speaker 1: the honeymoon stage, you want to be their guide and
Speaker 1: you might be sitting there thinking, you know, I need
Speaker 1: to do something about this as a friend. I'm going
Speaker 1: to pause you right there. It's important to remember that
Speaker 1: this person who they are dating, who you don't like,
Speaker 1: may be part of their journey, which is shitty as
Speaker 1: it is. Just because you see the potential mistake doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that you can do the work for your friend.
Speaker 1: They let you make your mistakes, I'm sure of it,
Speaker 1: and now it's your time to repay the favor. You
Speaker 1: don't know what this person will be for them in
Speaker 1: their journey, right You don't know what kind of decisions
Speaker 1: they'll make for this person, or to stay with this
Speaker 1: person that actually might end up creating a life after
Speaker 1: this person that's amazing. You don't know what this person
Speaker 1: is leading them to, what they need to experience through
Speaker 1: this relationship. Or you see is someone you love and
Speaker 1: you want to kind of cushion the fall and make
Speaker 1: their life easier. And sometimes in those circumstances, I think
Speaker 1: you just have to bite your tongue. This is one
Speaker 1: of those examples, If they make your friend happy, if
Speaker 1: they are respectful and kind, that is an equally crucial factor.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's all we can ask for, and your dislike
Speaker 1: should not be a factor. I think, in fact, it
Speaker 1: can be rather hurtful if expressed. You know, I had
Speaker 1: a friend once say to me that an ex partner
Speaker 1: of mine was boring and annoying, and you know what,
Speaker 1: I interpreted that as whether this is correct or incorrect.
Speaker 1: I interpreted this at the time as my friend saying,
Speaker 1: you know, it's not that I don't like your partner,
Speaker 1: it's that I don't think that your preferences are good enough.
Speaker 1: I saw it as like a judgment of my standards
Speaker 1: and that they were so low that I was willing
Speaker 1: to be with this person because I was settling, essentially,
Speaker 1: And so it turned from being a criticism of this
Speaker 1: guy of my ex to being a criticism of me,
Speaker 1: and it made me in my mind at least, and
Speaker 1: it made me question the relationship but also the friendship
Speaker 1: at the same time. Was I a bad judge of character?
Speaker 1: Is this what this person thought? What else did this
Speaker 1: friend think of me? Should I just break up with
Speaker 1: this guy? Because eventually I would see what my f
Speaker 1: friends saw, and there would be this endless round of
Speaker 1: I told you, sos, I think when you criticize a
Speaker 1: person's partner out of personal dislike, you are not helping
Speaker 1: them and you are at risk of creating resentment. Especially
Speaker 1: since we are seeing more research coming out of social
Speaker 1: psychology that our friends' opinions on our dating lives do
Speaker 1: impact our decision making. So there was this study published
Speaker 1: a few years ago out of Indiana University, and what
Speaker 1: they found was that when people knew that their friends
Speaker 1: did not like their partner, this greatly influenced the actual
Speaker 1: length of the relationship. Now, that could be for two reasons.
Speaker 1: Either our friends impacted our decision and so we called
Speaker 1: it quits when we shouldn't have. Or maybe our friend
Speaker 1: recognized something before we did the relationship was doomed to fail.
Speaker 1: We just were in you know, the friend just saw
Speaker 1: it before we had the opportunity. True. I just think, regardless,
Speaker 1: don't put up the war between yourself and this person
Speaker 1: that you can care about from a place of judgment.
Speaker 1: An even larger consequence I think of you expressing your
Speaker 1: opinion and your friends disagreeing is that they will no
Speaker 1: longer want to talk to you about what's going on
Speaker 1: in their relationship. So if something seriously was to go wrong,
Speaker 1: they feel too ashamed or embarrassed or isolated to tell
Speaker 1: you anything because they don't want to deal with the embarrassment.
Speaker 1: They don't want to deal with you being like, oh,
Speaker 1: I knew all along. That's like the worst feeling that
Speaker 1: you can have. I think what's best in this situation
Speaker 1: is to really say nothing. Really kind of just have
Speaker 1: to bite your tongue, make sure that your friend is
Speaker 1: still still feels like they can rely on you to
Speaker 1: talk about it, they can rely on you to rant
Speaker 1: about it, they can ask for your advice, and they
Speaker 1: can kind of come to you in times of need
Speaker 1: without the risk that your opinion on their partner is
Speaker 1: going to influence them or maybe hurt your friendship. I
Speaker 1: know it's really difficult because you obviously care, but there
Speaker 1: is definitely a level of sensitivity required. So let's talk
Speaker 1: about this second reason. You may not like your friend's
Speaker 1: partner because you are perhaps jealous. I know, we don't
Speaker 1: like to admit it. Jealousy is an ugly word in
Speaker 1: our brains. To be called jealous is not something that
Speaker 1: we like to hear, and jealousy is also not something
Speaker 1: that we're likely going to fess up to, but sometimes
Speaker 1: we just can't help that feeling. It's like any other emotion.
Speaker 1: It sometimes feels like it's coming from a place that
Speaker 1: we don't have control over. And it's not necessarily sexual jealousy.
Speaker 1: You are not attracted to their friend, you are not
Speaker 1: attracted to their partner. It's more a form of platonic
Speaker 1: jealousy whereby you feel like this previously solid friendship and
Speaker 1: bond has been dismantled by this new relationship, whereby suddenly
Speaker 1: your friend has a new set of priorities not as
Speaker 1: high on the list as their partner is. I really
Speaker 1: get this, I really do. It's always so much more
Speaker 1: fun when you and your friends are all single together,
Speaker 1: or you're all experiencing the same things, or there is
Speaker 1: that closeness, you're always the top of each other's list,
Speaker 1: And when that gets taken away from us because of
Speaker 1: a new boyfriend and new girlfriend, we feel very instinctively,
Speaker 1: it's a natural reflux, I would say, to feel protective
Speaker 1: over the things that we value, whether that is a
Speaker 1: material possession or a relationship, because innately we are kind
Speaker 1: of greedy creatures, right, and we want people all to ourselves.
Speaker 1: I know that's kind of an ugly thing to say.
Speaker 1: That's something that I think we feel a lot of
Speaker 1: shame for, but it's just kind of the truth, right.
Speaker 1: Humans want more. We always want more. We always want
Speaker 1: what's best for us. We always want more love, more possession,
Speaker 1: more affection, And sometimes I think seeing something that we value,
Speaker 1: like our friend's affection and our friend's compassion and our
Speaker 1: friend's company get quote unquote taken away, can lead us
Speaker 1: to feel very defensive. Unfortunately, I don't think that that
Speaker 1: is something we have control over and it is not
Speaker 1: something that we can voice. There will come a time
Speaker 1: when we need to adjust and accept that other relationships
Speaker 1: may be a priority for people, especially if this new
Speaker 1: partner is someone that they're thinking about having kids with,
Speaker 1: or settling down with or getting married. That happens a
Speaker 1: lot more the further we get into our twenties. And
Speaker 1: not to be like kind of tough love about it,
Speaker 1: but you can either stay in kind of Peter Penland
Speaker 1: and be like, no, I want to be single and
Speaker 1: fun and get drunk and be all together for the
Speaker 1: rest of our lives and watch everyone else outgrow that
Speaker 1: dream and outgrow that version of reality, or you can
Speaker 1: kind of adapt and grow with them in those situations. Though,
Speaker 1: I do still feel like if you're sensing resentment coming
Speaker 1: up towards your friend, that is something you need to
Speaker 1: talk about. You don't necessarily need to say, Hey, I'm
Speaker 1: jealous of your boyfriend because he gets more of your
Speaker 1: attention and that's so unfair. You can be delicate about it.
Speaker 1: I think it's worth addressing and saying, hey, like, next
Speaker 1: time we hang out, can we just have one on
Speaker 1: one time? You know, I'm really missing you and I
Speaker 1: feel like we haven't had a chance to, like fully,
Speaker 1: you know, catch up. Ask them to hang out one
Speaker 1: on one. Be somewhat assertive that you need quality time
Speaker 1: that is just you and them, or that there are
Speaker 1: things that you don't want to share with the stranger
Speaker 1: i e. Their new boyfriend or girlfriend. I think a
Speaker 1: good friend is receptive to that, and they don't want
Speaker 1: to see you hurt or bothered or upset, so they'll
Speaker 1: listen to you. They'll notice that there is something that
Speaker 1: is on your mind. Perhaps they'll address it, or they'll
Speaker 1: probably guess it, and I'll make some change that your
Speaker 1: relationship is being not jeopardized, but is being altered and
Speaker 1: changed by their new priorities, and they have to decide
Speaker 1: whether they want to continue with that priority list or
Speaker 1: make sure that you feel cared for again. This isn't
Speaker 1: about you expressing an opinion about their partner or wanting
Speaker 1: to have some influence over their decision making when it
Speaker 1: comes to their relationship. This is just about addressing what
Speaker 1: is within your scope, which is the quality of your
Speaker 1: friendship and what you feel you need and your relationship
Speaker 1: needs in order to be sustained. I think although these
Speaker 1: examples are tough, they do require us to have a
Speaker 1: bit of sensitivity and think about what we would want
Speaker 1: to hear in these situations. We all know what it
Speaker 1: feels like to just be like totally enraptured with someone
Speaker 1: totally head over heels. We have our blinders on, we
Speaker 1: really can't see anything but them, and it is like
Speaker 1: a wonder full time. It will also at some stage pass,
Speaker 1: and you want to make sure that your relationships, your
Speaker 1: friendships are still there when it does. So I think
Speaker 1: just catching your friends attention and being like, hey, I
Speaker 1: would love to just like see you one on one
Speaker 1: I would love to talk to you one on one.
Speaker 1: Can we do something that's like quality time. That's a
Speaker 1: really important first step. I think that if they respond
Speaker 1: to that positively, great. If they don't, that's a further
Speaker 1: discussion we have to be like. Then you can kind
Speaker 1: of pull out the card of like, never say you
Speaker 1: don't like their partner, but do say like, I don't
Speaker 1: like how our relationship or our friendship has developed since
Speaker 1: you started dating this person. You know, I'm so happy
Speaker 1: for you, but I also think that what we have
Speaker 1: is important and will be around, has been around a
Speaker 1: lot longer than this other relationship. Hopefully I want it
Speaker 1: to be around for the rest of our lives, so
Speaker 1: let's keep working on it. I do think though, there
Speaker 1: are other instances in which we can see things that
Speaker 1: our friend maybe can't, and you do feel like you
Speaker 1: need to intervene, You rightfully should be saying something this
Speaker 1: does happen, and we're going to talk about all of
Speaker 1: that and more after this shortbreak. Toxic relationships in our
Speaker 1: twenties at any age really do exist, and they are
Speaker 1: a disaster to watch from the outside. They are so painful,
Speaker 1: especially when we feel powerless to do anything to help
Speaker 1: this person to change their situation. I think it's especially
Speaker 1: distressing when we see a friend falling into a situation.
Speaker 1: We know it's not good for them and we really
Speaker 1: cannot intervene, and when we do attempt to intervene, it
Speaker 1: only serves to jeopardize the connection that we have with
Speaker 1: that person and our relationship with them as a friend.
Speaker 1: I think we kind of take on the role of
Speaker 1: guardian angel in a lot of circumstances. We are the
Speaker 1: ones who defend our friends when they can't. We are
Speaker 1: there for them when they need us most. We will
Speaker 1: be honest with them about what matters and supportive about
Speaker 1: the things that you might look small to us. And
Speaker 1: whilst I have readily been recommending a silence as the
Speaker 1: best policy for situations where you don't like your friend's partner,
Speaker 1: I think that there are a series of scenarios where
Speaker 1: you have a duty to speak up and speak up quickly.
Speaker 1: Here are some examples of this. I think if your
Speaker 1: friend is dating someone who is overly controlling and tries
Speaker 1: to limit their contact with you or other important people
Speaker 1: in their life, if they are dating someone who is physically, emotionally, mentally,
Speaker 1: verbally abusive, somebody who is enabling them and causing them
Speaker 1: to make decisions that you know are dangerous. Someone who
Speaker 1: has lied to them about something, especially something important, and
Speaker 1: you know the truth, right, So if they are cheating
Speaker 1: on your friend or lying about something in their past
Speaker 1: and you know otherwise, I think that you really have
Speaker 1: a responsibility to say something. If this person is manipulating
Speaker 1: them financially, if they are displaying signs of extreme jealousy
Speaker 1: or possessiveness. I think essentially, any kind of behaviors that
Speaker 1: are coercive, abusive, manipulative, or exploitative, you have a duty
Speaker 1: to intervene, even if just from like a wellness check perspective,
Speaker 1: making sure they are okay. That is the bare minimum.
Speaker 1: There is certainly so much more that you can do,
Speaker 1: and I want to talk you through this, but before then,
Speaker 1: a quick caveat that there is so much advice to give,
Speaker 1: not all of it is going to match your situation.
Speaker 1: And there are so many other online resources for this,
Speaker 1: and trusted individuals like a psychologist or a counselor, or
Speaker 1: even a doctor or someone in law enforcement that you
Speaker 1: should reach out to for more specialized, individualized help. I
Speaker 1: know that a lot of us know that, but sometimes
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure that you know, if
Speaker 1: it is a really serious situation, you know where to
Speaker 1: go and you know that there are people out there
Speaker 1: to help you. But whilst you are trying to help
Speaker 1: your friend, there are some things that you can do.
Speaker 1: I think firstly, create a space for open communication. You're
Speaker 1: not going to know or learn anything. Your friend is
Speaker 1: not going to address anything unless they feel like there
Speaker 1: is a space for them to talk and talk safely
Speaker 1: about it. So I would say be patient, invite them
Speaker 1: over to your place, keep the conversation light to begin with.
Speaker 1: Ask them about their life, Ask them about how everything's going,
Speaker 1: so it doesn't feel like an interrogation. They don't constantly
Speaker 1: feel like you want information about their relationship and you're
Speaker 1: trying to get them to leave. Ask them questions that
Speaker 1: get them to reach the conclusion you've already reached on
Speaker 1: their own, because that will be more meaningful and effective
Speaker 1: if they recognize it themselves, rather than having you tell
Speaker 1: them and feeling judged about it and feeling like they're
Speaker 1: getting all this information and they're not quite sure it's
Speaker 1: correct because they haven't reached the same point in the
Speaker 1: same conclusion as you have. You know, if your friend
Speaker 1: hasn't asked for help, you can't really expect to go
Speaker 1: into this conversation and just speak your mind unfiltered, right,
Speaker 1: because they're going to be like, wait, what the heck,
Speaker 1: where is this coming from? Like my relationship is fine,
Speaker 1: my relationship is perfect. You know, there's a difference between
Speaker 1: wanting to help and passing judgment and statements like he
Speaker 1: treats you so badly or you just have to leave him.
Speaker 1: That is not going to help them articulate how they
Speaker 1: feel and therefore get to that same point that you have.
Speaker 1: So when I'm talking about these questions that help them
Speaker 1: reach their own conclusion, this includes things like do you
Speaker 1: think that that's normal how they're acting, or how do
Speaker 1: you feel about that? How do you feel about it
Speaker 1: when she does that? When he acts that way? Is
Speaker 1: that what you wanted in a relationship? Is that what
Speaker 1: you like in a relationship. All of these questions seem
Speaker 1: innocent enough, but I think if the person is unhappy
Speaker 1: and experiencing a difficult situation, it will reveal a lot,
Speaker 1: and it also keeps the focus on them and their feelings,
Speaker 1: not on your dislike for their partner, which I think
Speaker 1: can kind of make it seem like, oh, well, you know,
Speaker 1: they're only talking about this with me because they hate
Speaker 1: my boyfriend and they just want them gone. That's not
Speaker 1: what you're trying to do, right You're trying to get
Speaker 1: them to open up, and if they are opening up,
Speaker 1: if they do, don't judge them, Like I said before,
Speaker 1: statements like how could you not say this? How did
Speaker 1: it get this bad? What do you think was gonna happen?
Speaker 1: You need to break up with him. I've known this
Speaker 1: since the beginning. Dump him that, first of all, is
Speaker 1: like a very shallow way of saying things that doesn't
Speaker 1: take in the complexity of the situation. But it also
Speaker 1: puts you on opposing teams when you want to be
Speaker 1: in the same corner and you want them to see
Speaker 1: you as an ally, not as someone they need to
Speaker 1: justify their choices to alongside that, I also think don't
Speaker 1: try and force their hand by creating ultimatums or forcing
Speaker 1: them to really like have to come up with a
Speaker 1: plan straight away, Like I think that sense of urgency,
Speaker 1: I like, what are you going to do about it?
Speaker 1: You have to break up with them right now. This
Speaker 1: is terrible this is a disaster. I know that you're
Speaker 1: trying to do the right thing. I know that that's
Speaker 1: where you have the best intentions in mind to help
Speaker 1: guide them out of what you see as a terrible situation.
Speaker 1: But I think that sense of urgency is going to
Speaker 1: set off so much panic an alarm that if it
Speaker 1: was me, would probably result in a complete mental and
Speaker 1: emotional shutdown. They may have just realized that something was wrong.
Speaker 1: They may have just realized that what this behavior, this
Speaker 1: behavior they're experiencing, is not right. They're going to need
Speaker 1: some time to adjust because they probably do love this person.
Speaker 1: You cannot go from loving someone to hating them in
Speaker 1: an instant just because your friend has said something right like,
Speaker 1: it's a lot, It's a much more complicated journey than that.
Speaker 1: It could be take months. It could mean that they
Speaker 1: just need some more evidence to understand what is going on.
Speaker 1: And I think that that urgency created by forcing them
Speaker 1: to make a decision can create a lot of cognitive dissonance.
Speaker 1: They obviously value your opinion, they know how they want
Speaker 1: to be treated, but they also know that they love
Speaker 1: this person and they believe that this person loves them back.
Speaker 1: So it's hard to square all of those different and
Speaker 1: contradictory beliefs into one small space. Right, It's hard to
Speaker 1: believe all those things at once. They're going to experience
Speaker 1: some mental discomfort while they work through that, and they
Speaker 1: want we want them to choose the two former beliefs
Speaker 1: that your opinion is valuable and that they know how
Speaker 1: they want to be treated. We don't want them to
Speaker 1: choose the two former beliefs of like, oh sorry, the
Speaker 1: two latter beliefs ladder former last beliefs of like, oh,
Speaker 1: this person loves me and this is normal. Also, I
Speaker 1: think it's important in these situations to have empathy for
Speaker 1: why people may accept what you don't think they deserve.
Speaker 1: It's really crucial to be aware of what keeps people
Speaker 1: in bad relationships. It's very easy for us to, you know,
Speaker 1: say that that's bad and say that they shouldn't tolerate that,
Speaker 1: and that's that. You know, there it is. The logic
Speaker 1: is sound. But you're not the one experiencing the attachment.
Speaker 1: You are not the ones still reflecting on the good memories.
Speaker 1: You're not the one who sees this person's potential and
Speaker 1: has imagined a future. You're an outside party and We
Speaker 1: all know the feeling of giving someone advice we know
Speaker 1: we could never take, or knowing that something is easier
Speaker 1: said than done. People stay for a lot of reasons.
Speaker 1: They're scared of the unknown. This situation may not be great,
Speaker 1: but at least it's the devil that we know. We're
Speaker 1: fearful of what it could mean to be alone. There
Speaker 1: is so much uncertainty to a life without this other person,
Speaker 1: without the comfort of a partner. And although it is
Speaker 1: maybe a toxic relationship, a negative relationship, at least it
Speaker 1: feels comfortable and familiar, and leaving feels really scary. It
Speaker 1: may also come down to poor self esteem. They might
Speaker 1: not think that they can do better. We all have
Speaker 1: our own sense of self worth and our self concept.
Speaker 1: And although you may be looking at your friend being like, literally,
Speaker 1: you are the most beautiful, magnetic, intelligent, wonderful human to exist,
Speaker 1: they may not share that belief or see it from
Speaker 1: your outside perspective. I think also sometimes we are blind
Speaker 1: to the problems in our relationship because we need to
Speaker 1: be in order to survive, in order to you know,
Speaker 1: from a place of self preservation, you know, being able
Speaker 1: to recognize that things are wrong would mean that we
Speaker 1: would have to leave, which could jeopardize our safety, which
Speaker 1: could put us in the place of a lot of
Speaker 1: doubt and fear. So it's easier to think that this
Speaker 1: is normal. It's easier to accept what is happening to us.
Speaker 1: There's also shame, a lack of resources, or the fact
Speaker 1: that what they're experiencing has become normalized. There is this
Speaker 1: theory in psychology actually called and learned helplessness that we've
Speaker 1: spoken about on the podcast before, and essentially psychologists came up,
Speaker 1: but researchers discovered this idea when looking at experiments with dogs,
Speaker 1: and it was pretty pretty nasty. But they would tie
Speaker 1: these dogs up and they would essentially abuse them, and
Speaker 1: they couldn't escape because they were restrained. They would then
Speaker 1: let the dogs go and they would continue to abuse them.
Speaker 1: So even though the dogs weren't chained up, even though
Speaker 1: they really were free to go over they wanted free
Speaker 1: to escape the pain, they stayed because they had normalized
Speaker 1: the experience and they had learned that they were helpless
Speaker 1: in changing anything. Sometimes these things are so ingrained they
Speaker 1: take time to dismantle, So you just have to be
Speaker 1: there for them. You have to be gentle offer support,
Speaker 1: a shoulder to cry on, a place to be heard,
Speaker 1: enless the help of others they trust in. Love to
Speaker 1: get them to a point where they feel secure enough
Speaker 1: and safe enough and supported enough to do something right
Speaker 1: if they do make the decision. Keep them focused on
Speaker 1: the future, how much better it is going to be,
Speaker 1: how much you love them and believe in them, how
Speaker 1: much they have waiting for them in the next few months,
Speaker 1: that is going to be so beyond their wildest dreams.
Speaker 1: Pain a picture for them and their choices. Affirm that
Speaker 1: this is the right decision, that they are making the
Speaker 1: right choice, that you are proud of them, but don't
Speaker 1: lose hope if you know they go back a few times.
Speaker 1: Your job is not to force them into a decision
Speaker 1: they're not prepared for, but to love them and aid
Speaker 1: their decision, even if it's you know, not the one
Speaker 1: that you would make. These situations are hard for everyone.
Speaker 1: I know that we started off talking about like just
Speaker 1: personally not liking somebody's partner, which is such a common experience,
Speaker 1: but it can get more extreme than that. And I
Speaker 1: know you feel a supreme sense of duty and you
Speaker 1: want to do something and you wish that you were
Speaker 1: in charge and you wish that you could make this
Speaker 1: change happen. But it's also not about you. I think
Speaker 1: in all of these examples, whether you dislike your friend's
Speaker 1: partner for arbitrary reasons from a place of jealousy or
Speaker 1: from a place of genuine concern and safety, that is
Speaker 1: not about you. None of that is about you. It's
Speaker 1: about your friend. It is about what you feel they deserve,
Speaker 1: what they do deserve the relationship that they have with you.
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes we can let our own ego
Speaker 1: get in the way and make us feel like we
Speaker 1: know best and make it feel like we could just
Speaker 1: do this all better, and we should. They should just
Speaker 1: let us take the wheel. And they don't know anything,
Speaker 1: and they're making these mistakes, and what were they thinking.
Speaker 1: It's not our journey, it's not our life, it's not
Speaker 1: our decision. So you just have to be there to
Speaker 1: support them and pick up the pieces at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, because you know your friend will only
Speaker 1: listen and accept help when they are ready. And if
Speaker 1: you alienate them by judging them by being like your
Speaker 1: partner is such a loser, they're annoying, they're awful, you know,
Speaker 1: like I said before, we know what it feels like
Speaker 1: to be in love. Whose side do you think they're
Speaker 1: gonna choose? It's not rational, it's definitely not logical, but
Speaker 1: it's very human to let ourselves be guided by emotion.
Speaker 1: So I hope that this episode has been of some help.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna leave some resources the description. I know that
Speaker 1: this was kind of ended up being a really vulnerable
Speaker 1: and intense conversation, but I also hope that it helps
Speaker 1: because I know that a lot of us in our
Speaker 1: twenties are witnessing this or have experienced this where someone's
Speaker 1: just in that kind of relationship where you're like, do
Speaker 1: I need to say something? And it's hard to decide
Speaker 1: whether you do or whether you need to stay silent.
Speaker 1: So I hope that this has kind of guided you
Speaker 1: in that dilemmaon in that experience. I've been there, I've
Speaker 1: done that, I've got the T shirt. I have been
Speaker 1: both friends in this scenario. And you know, there were
Speaker 1: things that I think I've said in the past to
Speaker 1: friends that I shouldn't have said that have tarnished our friendship.
Speaker 1: And there has been things that have said to me
Speaker 1: that have made me really isolate myself and not want
Speaker 1: to talk to those people. So hopefully I've brought that
Speaker 1: experience to the table, You've taken something away from it,
Speaker 1: You've learned from it. And if there is someone you
Speaker 1: think needs to hear this episode, please feel free to
Speaker 1: share it with them, share them a link, let them
Speaker 1: know that they heard, let them here this advice for themselves.
Speaker 1: Maybe if you have an episode suggestion, or if you
Speaker 1: just want to get engaged with the community, please follow
Speaker 1: along at that Psychology podcast on Instagram. We would love
Speaker 1: to see you over there, and make sure to leave
Speaker 1: a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you
Speaker 1: are listening right now and make sure you're following along.
Speaker 1: We've got some really cool episodes coming out, some that
Speaker 1: are a little bit less serious than this. But once again,
Speaker 1: I'm wishing you love and luck and we will be
Speaker 1: back next week with another episode.