1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production of 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: My Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: My name is Robert lamp and I'm Joe McCormick. And 4 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: the Flaming Tumbleweed has rolled right back in. We're ready 5 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: for part two of this series. That's right. If you 6 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: didn't listen to part one, go back, give it a listen, 7 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: because we get we get all into the topic of tumbleweeds, 8 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: talking about what what tumbleweeds are? What? What what do 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: we mean when we talk about them in the American sense, 10 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: in a broader sense, why do they do the tumbling uh? 11 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: And so forth. I think it's a pretty fun episode, 12 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:48,279 Speaker 1: and we're gonna we're gonna keep the ball rolling today. Now. 13 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: One of the interesting things that we discovered in the 14 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: last episode is that while the tumbleweed is an icon 15 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: of the American West, uh, the main species of tumbleweed, 16 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: the thing people are usual really talking about in the 17 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: American context when they say a tumbleweed is a plant 18 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: known as Russian thistle that only arrived in the United 19 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: States probably around the eighteen seventies. And so this is 20 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: not even native to North America. It's something that comes 21 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: from the Eurasian step. Yeah, it is very much an invader. 22 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: It is an invasive species, and we're gonna get into 23 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 1: some of the ramifications of that here. But it's also 24 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why if you look for um 25 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 1: for like Native American accounts of tumbleweeds, uh, you know, 26 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 1: they're not going to exist before a certain point, because 27 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: they don't even come in with the initial colonists, with 28 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,559 Speaker 1: the initial influx of Westerners, or even the first few 29 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: influxes of Westerners. They come in much later. However, you 30 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: do find some interesting uh uses of tumbleweed. I was 31 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: reading in the Journal of American Folklore article titled The 32 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: Witches Were Saved a Zoo New origin story by Dennis Tedlock. 33 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: So the Zuni or one of the Pueblo people of 34 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: the American West, and the author here discusses work by 35 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: the author Andrew Pinesta, intended for oral performance. Pinesta was 36 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: a Zuni storyteller, and the story in question was apparently 37 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: told in nine uh. And then Tedlock, you know, is 38 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: writing about it and discussing it, and it concerns interference 39 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 1: by the US military into Zuni affairs. But it mentions 40 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: the tumble weeds in a way that I think is 41 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: rather clever and drives home their invasive and uh, their 42 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:40,399 Speaker 1: their invasive nature. Here quote there's a spot near Neutria 43 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,959 Speaker 1: where the soldiers camped. They fed hay to their horses, 44 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: and there were tumbleweeds seeds in it. Now only tumbleweeds 45 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 1: grow on that spot, and they've spread all over. Oh, 46 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: so framing the soldiers here is a vector of the 47 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: spread of this invasive plant. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's my 48 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: read of it. Anyway, you know, it's it's touching on 49 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: the foreign invasive nature of both, um, both the the 50 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: the American military presence here in the presence of of 51 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: Westerners in general, and the tumbleweed, both things that that 52 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,239 Speaker 1: kind of curse the land. In this viewpoint, I was 53 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,359 Speaker 1: looking around for, you know, obviously, to find older sort 54 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: of folklore it takes and cultural takes on tumbleweeds. You 55 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 1: have to go to the parts of the world where 56 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: tumbleweeds were originally or would have spread to before they 57 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: had a chance to take root in America. Literally. Um. 58 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: I was reading The Rooster in the Transylvanian Folklore by 59 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: Ferric Posni, and in it the author rights on the 60 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: Transylvanian plane, people used to believe that witches would cause 61 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: aridity by burning a stolen rooster feather on the tumbleweed. 62 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: Oh this is interesting. So the tumbleweed lord does go back, 63 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: you know, to to pre modernity, but in in the 64 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: in the Step region rather than in North America. Yeah, 65 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: and so I was I was looking around for more 66 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: raf says to it. I'm sure there's some good ones 67 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: I missed. So anybody out there who's aware of u 68 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,119 Speaker 1: of any folkloric treatments of tumble weeds from from any 69 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: part of the world, right in and share them with us. 70 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: But I found mentions of tumbleweeds in Mongolian tradition, namely 71 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: as the subject of traditional Mongolian riddles as Collected and 72 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: disgust in Mongolian Folklore, A representative collection from the oral 73 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: tradition Part one, and this is by Hanging Krueger, Service 74 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 1: and Rosiecki published in Mongolian Studies, and this came out. 75 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: This is one of those volumes that came out like 76 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,679 Speaker 1: Bridging eighty five and eighty six, So they cover both 77 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: Mongolian folk sayings and riddles in this paper. And this 78 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: was this is actually a real pleasure to read. I know, Joe, 79 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 1: you looked at it as well. It's it's it's almost 80 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: like I think I was telling you before we recorded, 81 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: like I kind of want to see this bound as 82 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: its own little paperback edition and uh and available for 83 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: purchase somewhere, because it's just it's full of these these 84 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: fun little Mongolian folks things and then ultimately riddles, many 85 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: of which you know are gonna have residents with with 86 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 1: readers anywhere in the world, right though some of which 87 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: are are completely like going to be lost on you 88 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 1: if you don't know much about animal husbandry or goats 89 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: or anything. But but other ones, yeah, they are very 90 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: universal and and almost all the sayings are great. Uh 91 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: So the first half of it concerns more like proverbs, 92 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: you know, those kind of sayings that that don't they're 93 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: not like a prompt in the way the riddle is 94 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: uh And and a lot of the proverbs are really good. 95 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: One of them that I'm just doing this from memory, 96 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 1: but I think it was something like, uh, load of 97 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: donkey up with cargo, load of fool up with praise. Yeah, 98 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 1: they're so good though, obviously, Yeah, they're they're they're they're 99 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: emerging from a particular culture in a particular region. They 100 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: speak very much to the environment in the cultures of 101 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: the Mongolian people here. Um. But but yeah, the riddles 102 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 1: here they have a lot in common then with riddle 103 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: traditions around the world. The authors here right quote the 104 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 1: heart of the riddle is naturally the real or fancied 105 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: resemblance between two ideas or things, although sometimes punning plays 106 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: a role when the similarity involves two or three words 107 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: which sound alike. So I have a I have a 108 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: couple of riddles here. I'm gonna I'm gonna inflict them 109 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 1: on you, Joe, and you may be able to guess 110 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: the answer to a couple of them. But here's the 111 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 1: first one. When it comes from yonder, it looks like 112 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: a camel. When it crawls under the wagon, it looks 113 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: like a goat. Okay, So I know the answer to 114 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: this one, which is that it's a tumble weed. But 115 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: nonetheless I don't get it. I don't understand why it 116 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: looks like a goat when it crawls under the wagon. 117 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: What what do goats do under the wagon? That is, like, 118 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: do goats kind of crack and break or they brittle 119 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: under a wagon. I don't know. I guess maybe they're 120 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 1: just smaller. Like I can definitely, you know, my driving 121 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: experience that I talked about in the last episode, I 122 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: can definitely relate to the idea that the bumbling tumbleweed 123 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: on the highway may look as big as a camel. 124 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: It may be that intimidating, and then once you actually 125 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: run it over, you're like, oh, well, that was more 126 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: like running over a goat. I've never run over a gut. 127 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: I don't know why I laughed to be very sad 128 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: to run over a goat, but for some reason that 129 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: was funny at the time, at the time, for ten 130 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: seconds ago. But but anyway, I do think this is 131 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: one of the ones that is interesting because it seems 132 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: to require some kind of localized knowledge that we don't 133 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: really have. And this is something actually that the authors 134 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: mentioned uh in their introduction to the section on Mongolian riddles. 135 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: They say that, you know, riddles are nearly universal in 136 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: cultures around the world, and it's interesting to see what 137 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: topics are the most common in each riddle culture. And 138 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: so they say, for example, all cultures have riddles concerning 139 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: astronomical phenomenon like the on in the moon. But that 140 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: when you look at Mongolian riddles in particular, they're going 141 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: to be especially focused on topics like animal husbandry. So 142 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: there will be riddles that that have to do with 143 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: camels and goats and horses and things like that. And 144 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: obviously also localized plants will show up in a culture's 145 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: riddles about nature, and the tumbleweed would be one of these. 146 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: Speaking of which, here's another riddle, Joe from this stuff, 147 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: from this uh, this collection, It travels by the wind. 148 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: It stays in the ditch. Now this one I get more. Yeah, 149 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: this is a tumbleweed. And I think that the tickling, 150 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: the brain tickling part of this, maybe that it's playing 151 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: on your assumption when you say it travels by the wind. 152 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: People are naturally primed to think about something other than 153 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: like a plant or a feature of the natural world. Yeah, 154 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: something that actually lives and and in in the air, 155 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: and something that flies in the air like a bird. 156 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: Or you're thinking, maybe it's gonna be something like song 157 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 1: or something, but wasn't It stays in a bit. I 158 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: thought of a boat. That's a that's a good one too, 159 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 1: but no, it's the tumble weed. Which I mean, this 160 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: feels right as well. I mean, there's this thing that 161 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: is is pretty impressive when it really gets going, but 162 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: it winds in a good ditch and it's done for exactly. 163 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:18,839 Speaker 1: I mean, this calls to mind those images we saw 164 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: last time of you know, five hundred tumbleweeds all jammed 165 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: into a culvert. Yeah. Alright, So Joe, you knew that 166 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: the answer to those riddles was going to be the 167 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: tumble weed, but I wanted to I wanted to give 168 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:35,599 Speaker 1: you a shot. It's a non tumble weed Mongolian riddles here. Okay, 169 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: so these I I realized these may be a bit difficult, 170 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: but we're gonna give it a shot. Here's the first one. 171 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: If I only had a tongue, I would be a witness. 172 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: If I could only rise up, I could reach up 173 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: to heaven. Now I saw this one before you read it, 174 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: and I thought about it, and I honestly have no idea. 175 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: I mean, so the second one is making me think 176 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: it maybe is something that is long but not tall, 177 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: you know, like, uh yeah, but but I really don't know. Well, 178 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: you're on the right track, because the answer to this 179 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: one is the road. Oh okay, Uh Well, I certainly 180 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: get the second half. If I could only rise up, 181 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: I could reach up to heaven, you know, if you 182 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: could flip the axis. But why what is it about 183 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:23,319 Speaker 1: the tongue? If I only had a tongue that could 184 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: be a witness, I I don't. I don't know this one. 185 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: They didn't come. They basically just explained that this one 186 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: had to do with you know, they give the answer, 187 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: but they didn't explain what the tongue in the witness 188 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: bit means. Maybe just because you know so much happens 189 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: on the road that the road is is kind of 190 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: all knowing. In a sense, it connects to everywhere. Yeah, 191 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: it's like if these walls could talk, but there are 192 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: no walls, if this road could talk. Yeah, and in 193 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: in a sense, you know, it's yeah, it is everywhere 194 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: at once. This road that I am on is also 195 00:10:57,520 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: in this distant city as well as the city I 196 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: am from. And it's with me right here. Interesting, All right, 197 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: here's one more. I have something. Others use it a lot, 198 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,199 Speaker 1: but I use it only occasionally. Now with this one, 199 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 1: I also have no idea. I was trying to think 200 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: in the animal agriculture kind of zone, would could this 201 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: be something about I don't know, a like a goat. 202 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: Does a goat not use its own milk very much? 203 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: Or something? I don't know. Well, the answer to this 204 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: one is my name. Oh oh, that's very good. It's 205 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: very good. Yeah. Yeah. The the rationale being that generally 206 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: you're not saying your own name as much as other 207 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: people are saying your name. But this is like not 208 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: a good riddle if it's delivered by Bob Dole, right yeah, 209 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: or doing the Rock Johnson that kind of thing exactly. Okay, 210 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:50,599 Speaker 1: Well I pulled that one for you, Rob. Did you 211 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: already see the solution to this one? Um? I don't. 212 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: I'd probably not going to remember it. Okay, it's just 213 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: one line. The head is the enemy of its body. 214 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: M what is it? The head is the enemy of 215 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:09,199 Speaker 1: its body? Oh? Oh, I don't know. Again. I'm I'm 216 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: thinking and my mind is turning to two cows and 217 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: goats and horses, and I'm I'm also you know, trying 218 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: to think of like the great expanse of the Mongolian countryside, 219 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: and I'm I'm drawing a blank here. I think I 220 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: got us overly focused on on bovida and stuff. No, No, 221 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: the answer is a match stick. That's pretty good. So, yeah, 222 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: this has got to be a more modern riddle, I guess. 223 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 1: And I don't know when all of these come from, 224 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: Like do some of these date back hundreds of years, 225 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: whereas others are, you know, maybe from the nineteenth or 226 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: twentieth century. Yeah, I get the impression that that a 227 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: number of them maybe more recent. Oh and another one 228 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: of them that I saw was pretty interesting was just 229 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 1: the same one that appears in the It's the riddle 230 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: of the Sphinx from from Oedipus, So that that appears 231 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 1: to be a cross cultural riddle. You know what has 232 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: four legs in the morning, two legs in the in 233 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: the noontime, and three legs in the evening. It is 234 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 1: a human, you know, because you're a baby and you crawl, 235 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: and then as an adult you walk on two legs, 236 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 1: and then an old age you use a cane. Oh 237 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: but I got one more for you, rob Okay, So 238 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: this one is on a sunny day, there are two. 239 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: On a sunless day, there is but one. On a 240 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: moonlit night, there are two. On a moonless night, there 241 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: is but one. I mean, I'm thinking about light and silhouettes, shadows. Yeah, 242 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: that's it. It's a shadow. Is it a shadow? Okay? Wait, 243 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: so the person's shadow. There are two of you on 244 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: a sunny day because you got a shadow, okay, I 245 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: got that, Okay, And then on a sun most day, 246 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: there's just you. There's no shadow. On a moonlight night, 247 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: there too, again, you have a shadow, and on a 248 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: moonless night it's too dark to see anything, right, should 249 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: there Yeah, there shouldn't even be one on a moonless night. 250 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: The stars are so bright. That's one thing I guess 251 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 1: we have to consider. I don't know for certain, but 252 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 1: it reminds me of things I've read about Egyptian mythology 253 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: and about how uh an often unobscured sky is so 254 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: central to uh, to the world view of of say, 255 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: ancient Egyptians. I wonder if that holds true in Mongolian 256 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: culture as well, because if you have like this brilliant 257 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: starlet sky and there's you know, less probability of cloud cover, 258 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,719 Speaker 1: then perhaps that does illuminate things a little better. I 259 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, certainly there's going to be less possibility 260 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: of you know, light pollution and artificial light kind of 261 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: creating these these deeper pockets of shadow. But why does 262 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: the tumbleweed under the wagon look like a goat? I 263 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: mean maybe it just has to do with like, once 264 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: it gets up here, it's not going to you know, 265 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: kick butt like a camel would like. It's going to 266 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: be more or less hiding underneath the cart like a 267 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: goat kind of Uh, it's gonna be this It's not 268 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: gonna be this bounding, brave looking thing. It's going to 269 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: be this meek uh little ball that's hiding around underneath 270 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: the carts or jammed under a wheel, et cetera. Mongolian 271 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: listeners right in teach us help us figure this one out. 272 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: By the way the sayings collected in this this this 273 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: book er, I mean in this paper also great. Uh, 274 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: here's an example one that kept jumping out of me 275 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: every time I sort of skimmed past it looking for tumbleweeds. 276 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: Men follow customs, dogs follow bones. I like that one. Yeah, 277 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: that is good. So if this implies a parallel in 278 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: the way that these things are followed, would it be 279 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: that humans go after social customs in a kind of driven, hungry, 280 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: instinctual way. You know, I'm not sure if that is 281 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: the way we're supposed to take this, or does it 282 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: mean that a dog of like just follows their gut 283 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: instinct and like, you know, follows immediate evidence. But men 284 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: have customs that they have to follow. Oh yeah, that's it. 285 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: That could be the contrast. But but but I I 286 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: find your interpretation interesting as well. I could. I guess 287 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: I could see it go either way. I guess there's 288 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: no comparative word in there. Doesn't say men follow customs 289 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: like dogs follow bones. Anyway, there are more of these 290 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: and if you're interested, again, it's Mongolian Folklore, a representative 291 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: collection from the oral literary tradition, Part one. And that's 292 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: a bit of one J store. So if you go 293 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: to J S t O R dot org you can 294 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: you can access it for free. I don't know if 295 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: you have to sign in. I like I I access 296 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: it da membership but um, but not a paid membership. 297 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: So go for it if you're interested. Okay, one more 298 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: one before we move on that this is just a proverb. 299 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: It's that children who grow up spoiled are more difficult 300 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: to handle than a bull's neck. Okay, what about a 301 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: bull's neck, though, I guess it's difficult to get your 302 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: hands around it, right, like a bull's neck can be 303 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: so thick that you can't even reach your arms around 304 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: it and like, you know, lock your your knuckles together. Yeah, yeah, 305 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: all right, So we're gonna we're gonna leave mongolian Um 306 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: wisdom aside here for a little bit. We're gonna get 307 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: back to more North America entails of the tumbleweed. And 308 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: so I was just you know, thinking at this point 309 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 1: you're probably going, well, geez, guys, I get the tumbleweeds 310 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: are bad, and uh, you know that sometimes they're like 311 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: a camel and sometimes like there a goat. Okay, fair enough, 312 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 1: but what do they mean for the proliferation of radioactive waste? Well, 313 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,959 Speaker 1: we're glad you ask, because it's actually an interesting question. Uh. 314 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: And one of the things I found even more fascinating 315 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: about it is that they're The role that tumbleweeds play 316 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 1: in in our treatment of radioactive waste can vary greatly 317 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 1: depending on like what source you're looking at. Well, yeah, 318 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: and I think the radioactivity will play more into the 319 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,640 Speaker 1: second example we're talking about them the first, which might 320 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: be more clearly classed as a case of toxic waste, right, yes, 321 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 1: but but both have to do with the leavings of 322 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: of the Atomic Age. Yeah. So the Atomic Ages we've 323 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: discussed on the show before, especially I think the the 324 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: episode or episodes in question. Uh it was titled the 325 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: Atomic Scar. Uh. The Atomic Ages left various scars on 326 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: the planet, including radioactive waste that we have to seal 327 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: away and figure out how to Symbolically worn apocalyptic wanders 328 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 1: ten thousand years in the future that they shouldn't mess 329 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: with this because it's bad. Uh. So we're always looking 330 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: at for ways to secure it, to resecure it, to 331 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: clean it up, et cetera. Now you might remember another 332 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,719 Speaker 1: episode we did titled The Tide of Gold, and in 333 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: that we discussed some sort of novel gold harvesting schemes 334 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: and ideas, and we discussed how plants can harvest gold 335 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: from the ground. Basically, the premise here is that some 336 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: plants have the ability to absorb minerals through their roots 337 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: and uh and uh and and concentrate metals such as nickel, uh, cadmium, 338 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: and zinc uh. These plants are also known as hyper accumulators. 339 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 1: There are no natural gold hyper accume ulators, but there 340 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: are ways to make it possible through soil manipulation. So 341 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: you like treat the soil that contains the gold in 342 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: a certain way, and you can sort of engineer it 343 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: so that certain plants that have this natural ability will 344 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 1: actually draw that gold up into their roots system. So 345 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: you can probably see where we're going here. Um, remember 346 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: how we mentioned that tumble weed roots can dive twenty 347 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 1: feet down into the soil. Well, as pointed out by 348 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: geologist Dana Ulmer Shoal of the New Mexico Institute of 349 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 1: Mining and Technology in SoCoRo, reporting to the US Geological 350 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: Society in two thousand and four, tumbleweed plants are actually 351 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: really good a't soaking up depleted uranium from contaminated soils 352 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: and weapons testing grounds and battlefields. Now this is interesting. 353 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 1: I guess we should do a little sidebar here on 354 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: depleted uranium because you might be wondering, okay, depleted uranium, 355 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: and you you hear that here uranium your weapons testing grounds, 356 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 1: and you might naturally think like, oh, nuclear bomb detonation sites. 357 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: But this is actually talking about something different. Uh. So, 358 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: depleted uranium is often used in heavy munitions as as 359 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: a metal, not as a a fissile material for a bomb, 360 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: but as a metal. And it's used in these munitions 361 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: because of its density and armor penetrating properties, so it's 362 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: you know, you can make a very dense projectile out 363 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: of it. I believe it is more than half again 364 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: as dense as leads something. It's like sixty something percent 365 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: more dense than lead is uh. And that density also 366 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: makes it useful for certain things in like the aeronautics field. 367 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: I think I've read that it's used sometimes as a 368 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: counterweight or counterbalance in some helicopter rotor blades, but it's 369 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: also used for plating and armored vehicles, again because it's 370 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: dense so it's more likely to stop a projectile, and 371 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: then also in creating shielding against radiation. But as as 372 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: am innisition in particular, I think depleted uranium is used 373 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,959 Speaker 1: not just because it's dense, but because, say when it 374 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: hits the armor plating of a tank to try to 375 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: penetrate it, it has these properties where it tends to 376 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: kind of fragment in a way that that makes the 377 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: projectile sharper rather than blunt r And as it penetrates 378 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 1: through the armor plating of a of an armored vehicle, 379 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 1: it also tends to ignite and explode on the inside, 380 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: so it has a lot of properties that you would 381 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: want if you were trying to shoot through an armored vehicle. Now, 382 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 1: to pick up on the caveat I was giving earlier 383 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: about radioactivity, depleted uranium has very low levels of radioactivity. 384 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: It's actually it actually has less radioactivity then is typically 385 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 1: found in natural uranium. But uranium, whether natural or depleted uranium, 386 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: has significant chemical toxicity. So it is clear that it 387 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: is dangerous to ingest certain amounts of it beyond a 388 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 1: certain threshold. But at least according to some sources, this 389 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: is not really because of radioactivity. UH, though there might 390 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: be some continuing controversy about the radiological effects in particular. 391 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,439 Speaker 1: I'll mention a little more about that in a minute, UM, 392 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: but I was trying to look up. Okay, how does 393 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: it work? Well? According to the US Agency for Toxic 394 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 1: Substances and Disease Registry or the A T S d R, 395 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: which is a government agency under the under the umbrella 396 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 1: of the Health and Human Services Department, UH that they 397 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: put out a fact sheet on the health effects of uranium, 398 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 1: both known and under investigation, and they say that both 399 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: natural and depleted uranium have that they have the same 400 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: toxic effects within a human body. The primary of which 401 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: is adverse effects to the renal system, so the kidneys, 402 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 1: so either inhaling or ingesting significant amounts of uranium compounds, 403 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: and I think possibly by uh by having it enter 404 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 1: the body as shrapnel as well. UH. This is known 405 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 1: to cause damage to the kidneys, and there may be 406 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: some secondary effects as well, but the secondary effects are 407 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: less clear. UM. The more I looked into this, the 408 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: more complicated the picture of the health effects of exposure 409 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 1: to depleted uranium became. UM. So like you'll find a 410 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 1: lot of debate the their their questions about the exposure 411 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 1: of combat veterans and people living in war zones who 412 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 1: have been exposed to ammunition with depleted uranium content. UH. 413 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: And I did not have time to wade into all 414 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: of that controversy and figure out what I thought about it, 415 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: but I will say, at the very least, UH, you 416 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: do not want your body exposed to high levels of 417 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: depleted uranium. UH, definitely because of its known adverse health effects. 418 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: And then there may be other secondary effects on top 419 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: of what is currently known as well. But like most things, UH, 420 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: the the toxicity of depleted uranium depends on dosage over time. 421 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:51,160 Speaker 1: So we're all exposed to tiny amounts of uranium from 422 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 1: the natural environment. On a consistent basis, this is completely unavoidable. 423 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: It's just part of living on planet Earth. There's gonna 424 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: be tiny, tiny amounts of uranium and the food you eat, 425 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 1: in the water you drink. But if you are living 426 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: in certain areas where there is significant uranium contamination in 427 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 1: the environment, those those levels could go up above what 428 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: is safe. Right. And therefore it stands to reason if 429 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: you had, say a former ammunition testing ground, and you 430 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,719 Speaker 1: wanted to do something else with that and not just 431 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: keep it, uh, you know, set aside for you know, 432 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: the duration of of of of human civilization or something. Uh, 433 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: you might want to reclaim it. You might want to 434 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 1: find a way to get depleted uranium out of the ground. 435 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,679 Speaker 1: And uh that's where a few different plants have have 436 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: shown promise at drinking up that depleted uranium um. One 437 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: of them, for instance, is the Indian mustard plant. But 438 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: as this this research points out, one of the things 439 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 1: about many of these plants is that they thrive in 440 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: um in in wetter soils. What are you gonna do 441 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: when you have something out in a desert, right, Well, 442 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: that's where the tumbleweed comes. The tumbleweed, of course, famously 443 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: excels in dry, barren places. UH. One rolls into a 444 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: well irrigated yard in a New Mexico suburb, and it's doomed. Uh. 445 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: It can't compete with the grass. But if it goes 446 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: into an abandoned um uh you know, a feed lot 447 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 1: or a girl or some sort of agricultural site, uh, 448 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: an undeveloped bad land, well, then that's where the tumble 449 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: weed is king. And so it's ideally suited for some 450 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: of the desolate places that we find depleted uranium in 451 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: the United States, especially uh in in the West, uh 452 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 1: in the Western States. So the argument here is that 453 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 1: this could be a safe method as well, because the 454 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: plants do most of the absorption well before they detach. 455 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: So if you were managing the site, if you were, 456 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 1: you know, planting intentionally the the the tumbleweed plants here, 457 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,880 Speaker 1: then the plants could be harvested and disposed of well 458 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: before the the drying phase begins, and then ultimately the 459 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: tumbleweed breaks free and is able to roll free exactly. 460 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: And so I thought this was very interesting. I did 461 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: look around for more follow up on this about using 462 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 1: tumbleweeds for for remediation of heavy metals like depleted geranium 463 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: or other toxic substances in soils. And I didn't find 464 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: anything much more recent so so I don't know, uh, 465 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: if for or how much anybody's picked up on this research. 466 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: But but yeah, yeah, well, like like we we hinted 467 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: out before, this is a This is something we often 468 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 1: see with the tumble with tumbleweed related research. Somebody will 469 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,239 Speaker 1: have an idea about something we can do with the 470 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: tumble weeds. What can we do with these tumble weeds? 471 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 1: What can we do about these tumbleweeds? And someone will 472 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: have a novel approach, but either it's something that doesn't 473 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,199 Speaker 1: seem to work out for one reason or another, or 474 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: it requires more research and it is perhaps still being researched. Um, 475 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 1: it seems like I saw this more often than not. 476 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,439 Speaker 1: Oh did we ever find anything else out about what 477 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: happened to that tumbleweed eating machine we talked about in 478 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: part one? No, not yet, but but the as we're 479 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,959 Speaker 1: recording this, the episode had the first episode has not aired, 480 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: so I'm hoping that we'll hear from some New Mexico listeners, 481 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 1: like maybe maybe there are counties in New Mexico where 482 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: they had one of these or have one still. I 483 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe we'll get some local intel. I did 484 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: email one of the researchers who was involved in the 485 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: original project and the original prototype, but I have not 486 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: heard back from them. And and nor would I be 487 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 1: that surprised, because just some RANDO is reaching out of 488 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: them out of nowhere and asked him about a project 489 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 1: that they worked on decades ago. Uh. I can understand there. 490 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,719 Speaker 1: They might see that it's just a spam email, all right, 491 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: So we're not done with the idea of tumble weeds 492 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: and UH weapons sites and so forth. UH. And and 493 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: this week turned to an article that you you dug up, Joe. 494 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: This was from Sarah Zang writing UH for Gizmoto back 495 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: in two thousand fourteen, which was just a really great 496 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 1: year for all things tumble. We had a number of 497 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 1: the articles that we have end up referring to and 498 00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 1: this come from But she cited a George John some 499 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 1: peace in National Geographic particularly UH this bit quote. During 500 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 1: the early nineteen sixties, after above ground nuclear testing finally 501 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 1: ceased at the Nevada test site, the first thing said 502 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: to grow back was Russian thistle radioactive salth sola has 503 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: come tumbling out of the old Hanford Nuclear Reservation in Washington, 504 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: where plutonium was manufactured during the Cold War. I half 505 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: expect to hear someday that Russian thistle has been found 506 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,239 Speaker 1: on the moon. Yeah, and uh, I can't remember if 507 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 1: we already said it so far in this episode or not, 508 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: but Russian thistle is the common name of the main 509 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: species of tumbleweed that that is now known in the 510 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: United States. That's the number of different scientific names have 511 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,959 Speaker 1: been used. Sal solo, tregas, calli tregas. Uh. And this 512 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: is the salsola sal solo that the author here is 513 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: talking about in this Uh, this not g O piece 514 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: has been quoted. But yeah, it is not surprising to 515 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: me to hear that tumbleweed is is the first thing 516 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: moving in uh at a at a nuclear testing site, 517 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: right and uh and as saying explains, it's just one 518 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: of many organisms that can interfere where our efforts just 519 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: set aside such waste and such way side or just 520 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: sort of secure such locations. Um. Now, the the Hanford 521 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: Nuclear Reservation is of note here because yet and tumbleweeds 522 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: were in the news as recently as January, as reported 523 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: by Maria Kramer in the New York Times, with the 524 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: headline storm of tumbleweeds, berries, cars, terrifies drivers and astounds police. 525 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 1: But some I have to point out that some places, 526 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: including I believe that the Chicago Tribune altered the headline 527 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: UM or updated the headline. I would say, I don't 528 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: want to say altered, like they did something super nefarious 529 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: to say, UM storm of quote unquote nuclear tumbleweeds, berries, cars, 530 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: terrifies drivers and astounds police. UM. It's in quotes because 531 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: they're referring to a particular quote in the UM the 532 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: original article where they're talking about this tumble getting in 533 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: which they mentioned quote the highway is in a flat, 534 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: wide open area close to the Hanford Nuclear Reservation, which 535 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: is known as one of the sites of the Manhattan 536 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: Project and where plutonium was produced to help build the 537 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: atom bomb. And then there's this quote from a Mr 538 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: thorn Thorson that says, quote, some people are calling them 539 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: nuclear tumbleweeds. So that's so that might be jumping to 540 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: some conclusions here, but not not entirely without reason, right right, Yeah, 541 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,719 Speaker 1: the article does not discuss tumbleweeds as radioactive in nature. 542 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: Other than including that one little quote. Uh, but um, 543 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: the the Hanford location, as discussed by Elliott Marshall in 544 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: the edition of the Journal Science UM has pointed out 545 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: that that this is a location that has had issues 546 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: with badgers, rabbits, ground squirrels, burrowing owls, pocket mice, insects, 547 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: rabbit brush, and yes, tumbleweeds, uh, inter fearing with with 548 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: human efforts to sort of leave this site alone and undisturbed. Well, yeah, 549 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: they're literally having breaches due to wildlife like failures of 550 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: nuclear material or high level waste containment due to breaches 551 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: by things like badgers. Yeah, and then things like rabbits 552 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: with like radioactive rabbit poop because rabbits have gotten in there. Yes, 553 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: here's a quote from Marshall. With roots that can grow 554 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: down twenty feet. Tumbleweeds reached down into waste dumps and 555 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: take up strontium ninety break off and blow around the 556 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: dry land. And this caused them to worry that the 557 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: radiation in the tumbleweeds could then be released into the 558 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: air if these weeds were to to do what tumbleweeds 559 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 1: sometimes do, collect somewhere and then catch fire or what 560 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: happens if they reach a body of water. Remember that 561 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: example from the last episode talking about a tumbleweed. Uh, 562 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: this mighty tumbleweed rolling into the water and then kind 563 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 1: of melting there. Um, you know you don't want your 564 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: your your radioact have shredded wheat hitting the milk exactly. Yeah, Okay, 565 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: So it's not necessarily actually known that these tumbleweeds from 566 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: the story in January had significant radioactivity levels. But tumbleweeds 567 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: are one of the biological vectors that could potentially breach 568 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: some types of nuclear material containment. Right, that seems to 569 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: be the case, And of course the fact that they 570 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: then break off and blow around afterwards is not helpful, right, 571 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: And I mean, we do have to to acknowledge the 572 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: fact that there are radioactive tumble weeds in the video 573 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 1: game Fallout New Vegas. So I don't know, is that 574 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: true the tumbleweeds. Apparently I I played New Vegas, and 575 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: I remember enjoying it, but I do not remember the tumbleweeds. 576 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: I had not yet fostered an appreciation for the tumbleweed, 577 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: so if they were there, I forgot them. But I 578 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: ran across this in in my searches. So it seems 579 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: to be the case. Let's say, good on them at 580 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: fault at the what was the team that made that game? 581 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: They did their research. Thank thank thank Now, given all 582 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: we shared about the problems posed by invasive tumbleweeds in 583 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: the United States, that should come as no surprise that 584 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: the U. S d A has looked into ways of 585 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: eradicating them, or at least significantly reducing their number. Uh. 586 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: And they've some some of the ways they've They've they've 587 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: examined this or rather interesting. One method that has been 588 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: proposed is to to take the classic approach and UH 589 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: and introduce a particular type of MIGHT. This is a 590 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: Syria south soulae, which kills the growing tips of the 591 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: plant and stunts it. Supposedly, studies have shown that it 592 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: only targets this particular MIGHT species, It only targets a 593 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: few closely related species to the tumbleweed, and all of 594 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: these species are pest species. Oh, but the proposed biological 595 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: controls do not stop there. That's right. They've also looked 596 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: into Researchers have also looked into using two fungi species 597 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: native to the tumbleweeds original uh you know, Russian or 598 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: Ukrainian environment. This news was making the rounds in They've 599 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 1: also looked into viral methods of targeting invasive tumbleweeds with viruses. 600 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,240 Speaker 1: The U. S d A was also testing viruses developed 601 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 1: from two types of dying tumbleweeds and UH in Russia 602 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 1: and in Hungary. And this was also reported in Again 603 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: just a banner year for tumbleweed research. Now, I'm not 604 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: sure where we are with any of these different approaches 605 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 1: ones anyway. I mean, that's not too long ago. It 606 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,319 Speaker 1: seems feasible that there still could be some research going 607 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:51,239 Speaker 1: on there. Um. Uh, maybe it's a situation where the 608 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: research did fizzle out, or maybe there's just a lot 609 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 1: of contemplation that has to go into the massive introduction 610 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 1: of another invase of species or some sort of other 611 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,280 Speaker 1: biological control to try and take care of your existing problem, 612 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: because you you know, you don't want to overflow the 613 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 1: tub anymore than it's already overflowing, you know. I was 614 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: just trying to remember which previous episode we talked about 615 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 1: some of the um controversies of using you know, different 616 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 1: species for bio control methods of of existing invasive species 617 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: UH and UH. The one that came to mind that 618 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,279 Speaker 1: looks at least the time we talked about it like 619 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 1: it was going pretty well was on Christmas Island, where 620 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: the you know, the the big native crab populations or wait, 621 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,320 Speaker 1: were those crabs originally from somewhere else as well? I 622 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 1: don't recall anyway, the crab populations on Christmas Island, the 623 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 1: glorious flows the ocean, the tide of crabs, they were 624 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: being threatened by these ant populations there that were, you know, 625 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:56,439 Speaker 1: squirting formic acid into the crabs joints and and killing them. 626 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: I think there were the the yellow crazy ants, right, Yeah, 627 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: that's sound try. Yeah, so the yellow crazy ants. Uh. 628 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 1: There were some conservationists who had developed a plan to 629 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: help try to control populations of the yellow crazy ants 630 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:16,800 Speaker 1: by deploying a predator, a predatory micro wasp that would 631 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 1: that would cut back on the ant colonies there. Uh. 632 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 1: And at least last time we read about that, it 633 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 1: seemed like that was going well so far and uh 634 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,959 Speaker 1: and had not had any any dangerous spillover. But yeah, 635 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,359 Speaker 1: you always wonder, like you don't, you know, first order 636 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 1: of businesses do no harm, and uh, it's always it's 637 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 1: always a little risky when you say, well, let's introduce 638 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 1: a different thing and and just hope that it only 639 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: has this targeted effect that we wanted to Yeah. I 640 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,839 Speaker 1: mean time was when human beings thought they could fix 641 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 1: a problem by introducing a new invasive species, they would 642 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: just do it, and and that would and and a 643 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 1: lot of times that would end up resulting in a 644 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: new problem, a new invasive spiece. So it's it's good 645 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,719 Speaker 1: that we're being more thoughtful about this because ultimately you're 646 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 1: dealing with a very complex ecosystem in any case, um 647 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 1: and it's it's difficult to figure out exactly what the 648 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: ramifications of introducing something new we're going to be or 649 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 1: introducing another new thing into it. Oh, but I just 650 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: recalled I've been trying to remember what was the example 651 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: we talked about in that episode of of a a 652 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,399 Speaker 1: bio control species that had been introduced and then really backfired, 653 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,560 Speaker 1: And I couldn't call it to mind, but I just did. 654 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 1: It was the cane toads in Australia that were brought in, 655 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,839 Speaker 1: I think to control beetle populations that were threatening agriculture. 656 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,279 Speaker 1: But then the cane toads became a became a huge 657 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 1: problem in their own right. Yeah, yeah, there, yeah, there, 658 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: there's so many different accounts one can turn to where 659 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: we can move that, you know, our our cautionary tales 660 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 1: in introducing a species to try and fix the problem. Uh. 661 00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: And and then you know, another aspect of all of 662 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,400 Speaker 1: this too is that this is the things changed, the 663 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 1: environments shift. UM. For instance, I was looking at a 664 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,759 Speaker 1: University of California riverside study from UM and then this 665 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 1: was making the case that the quote unquote monster tumbleweed 666 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 1: species salth solar ryani was once thought to be actually 667 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: going extinct, but it has since gained ground as it 668 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 1: apparently remains green into late summer and has been increasingly 669 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,440 Speaker 1: been able to take full advantage of rains during that 670 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 1: time period. Uh So it's footprint has been expanding in 671 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: recent years. And this is one that grows up to 672 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 1: six ft tall. So uh, it's a massive tumbleweed. But 673 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,160 Speaker 1: just just I guess a footnote in the you know, 674 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 1: in the lesson that you know, you're you can try 675 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,400 Speaker 1: and solve one particular problem in at a certain period 676 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: of time, But but what is the situation going to 677 00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 1: look like? Uh, you know, say ten years down the road, 678 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: especially when we're looking at at at climate change and 679 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,319 Speaker 1: um and and other factors having an impact act on 680 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 1: the natural environment. But but then again, maybe maybe I'm wrong. 681 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,479 Speaker 1: And like, as we're recording this, somewhere on the roads 682 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: in New Mexico, there is a massive snowplow with an 683 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: enormous um grinder on the front of it. And in 684 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,359 Speaker 1: the back of that snowplow there are a whole bunch 685 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 1: of mites and viruses and fung guy, and it's just 686 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,880 Speaker 1: making a bee line for the tumbleweed. Uh nation. So 687 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: I don't know, Sorry, I'm thinking now about the six 688 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,279 Speaker 1: foot tall tumbleweed. Okay, so I'm imagining somebody trying to 689 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,959 Speaker 1: like get that with a pitchfork. How heavy does that get? 690 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 1: I know the tumbleweeds are typically very low density, right 691 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:41,799 Speaker 1: because they need to be able to be blown by 692 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 1: the wind. But I don't know. Once you're six ft wide, 693 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:46,760 Speaker 1: you also have a lot of surface area to catch 694 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: the winds, so you could probably be pretty heavy and 695 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 1: still get blown around. Like, how hard does it get? 696 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 1: We can? Can they just get bigger and bigger and bigger? 697 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:01,560 Speaker 1: I mean, they are mostly air. But that being said, 698 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,319 Speaker 1: I if I had to choose between hitting a four 699 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:09,360 Speaker 1: foot diameter tumbleweed with my rental car or or hitting 700 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,759 Speaker 1: a six foot diameter tumbleweed with my rental car. I'm 701 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 1: definitely going to sort of towards the four ft uh 702 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 1: diameter tumbleweed. That being said, again, if you're driving in 703 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 1: the tumbleweeds come at you don't swerve, That's where the 704 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:27,280 Speaker 1: problems really start. I suppose I'm imagining runaway tumbleweed evolution 705 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 1: where they you know, tin foot tumbleweed, thirty foot tumbleweed, 706 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 1: hundred foot tumbleweed, and eventually the planet is ruled by 707 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:41,320 Speaker 1: gargantuan tumbleweeds. It creates their own culture, you know. Coming 708 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,440 Speaker 1: back to um, you know, cinematic uses of tumbleweed that 709 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,239 Speaker 1: we touched on earlier on UH, it does seem that 710 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:52,640 Speaker 1: it's the symbol. The iconic scene is that lone tumbleweed 711 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 1: making its way across the screen. I don't think I've 712 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,840 Speaker 1: ever seen, or I don't remember ever seeing a cinematic 713 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,600 Speaker 1: treatment where it is like a whole herd of tumbleweeds. 714 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: But that is the more impressive site, and in a 715 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,360 Speaker 1: way it would seem to drive home the desolation. Not 716 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 1: only is this place so desolate, Um, that one tumbleweed 717 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,040 Speaker 1: is coming by, it is just taken over all life 718 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 1: is tumbleweed here. I bet you could make a really 719 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 1: good sentient tumbleweeds horror movie that. Yeah. Well we we 720 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,480 Speaker 1: were discussing this a little bit um off Mike the 721 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:27,440 Speaker 1: other day. I wonder to what extent, or any extent, 722 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,319 Speaker 1: the Critters franchise has any connection to Tumbleweeds. I mean, 723 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,480 Speaker 1: those are films that the originate out of Texas. The 724 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:39,360 Speaker 1: first one was set in Texas. I believe that. So 725 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,319 Speaker 1: I couldn't find anything just offhand. I didn't go deep 726 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:46,120 Speaker 1: and start listening to directors, commentaries or anything. But uh, 727 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,399 Speaker 1: you know those those creatures, the crates, they're they're kind 728 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,200 Speaker 1: of like a little tumbleweeds and they rolled together, they 729 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:56,440 Speaker 1: joined together into big tumbling pods. Um, they're kind of 730 00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:00,239 Speaker 1: like creature and they're invasiveather from another planet. I put 731 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,360 Speaker 1: it out to you, the listener, have you directed a 732 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 1: Critters movie? So right in and let us know what 733 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,880 Speaker 1: you think about the comparison between a crit and a tumbleweed? 734 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:18,320 Speaker 1: Are you? Leonardo DiCaprio was in Critters to the Critters 735 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 1: franchise has has a lot of talent, and if you 736 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,960 Speaker 1: start really looking at some of the names involved, especially 737 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 1: on the acting end of the spectrum. Uh, it's it's 738 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 1: it's star studded. It's just the one where they just 739 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,560 Speaker 1: like go to a buffet restaurant. Isn't there one where 740 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:36,680 Speaker 1: they do that? I don't say, Um, the Critters movies are. 741 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:38,759 Speaker 1: It's one of those franchises where I don't think I've 742 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,520 Speaker 1: I've ever sat down and just watched a full Critters movie. 743 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:43,520 Speaker 1: It's just they would come on TV a lot back 744 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,319 Speaker 1: in the day, and so when Critters was on, you 745 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,359 Speaker 1: just watched some Critters and I'm not sure you know 746 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,239 Speaker 1: at what point I was jumping in and out of 747 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:53,719 Speaker 1: the series. The other day you pointed out that there's 748 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,440 Speaker 1: one Critters movie where they go to space, which is 749 00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 1: a little underwhelming because the Critters are from space, their alien. Yeah, 750 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:03,480 Speaker 1: but it's like it makes sense for when Jason goes 751 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,960 Speaker 1: to space, that's weird. You leprecond in space, Okay, that's weird, 752 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 1: but now this is like aliens in space. Well, um, yeah, 753 00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,200 Speaker 1: maybe it's a it's it's a little odd, but it's 754 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,279 Speaker 1: where you gotta go. It's like they went they went 755 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,000 Speaker 1: to Critters one, Critters too, Creers three, they go to 756 00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,919 Speaker 1: l A. Critters four they go into space. I don't 757 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 1: know where they go after that. I think there was 758 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,040 Speaker 1: a TV series recently. I think they go on the 759 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,759 Speaker 1: Odyssey then, right, is they're trying to return home to it? 760 00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:35,799 Speaker 1: Think a maybe? So all right, we're gonna go ahead 761 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:39,279 Speaker 1: and call it there. Uh, this is gonna be the 762 00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:43,680 Speaker 1: end of our two episode series on Tumbleweeds. But again, 763 00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,080 Speaker 1: we'd love to hear from everyone out there, especially those 764 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,120 Speaker 1: of you who live in tumbleweed Country, which you know, 765 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,200 Speaker 1: technically if you look at a map includes uh, you know, 766 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 1: most people in the United States. But at any rate, 767 00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,880 Speaker 1: we would love to hear your your your tidbits, and 768 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:03,160 Speaker 1: your your of your experience with the mighty tumble weed, 769 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:07,040 Speaker 1: whether it becoming actually like a camel or hiding under 770 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,920 Speaker 1: the cart like a goat. In the meantime, if you 771 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:11,880 Speaker 1: would like to listen to other episodes of Stuff to 772 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,239 Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind, well you can listen to us in 773 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 1: the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast feed. We have 774 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,560 Speaker 1: core episodes in there on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On Monday's 775 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,720 Speaker 1: we do listener mail. On Wednesday, we do a short 776 00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,560 Speaker 1: form artifact or monster fact episode, and on Fridays we 777 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,800 Speaker 1: do Weird House Cinema. That's the time to set aside 778 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:33,280 Speaker 1: most serious concerns and just talk about a strange film. Um. 779 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,399 Speaker 1: We have a number of different web presences, but if 780 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,200 Speaker 1: you you know, you look us up on the I 781 00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:39,880 Speaker 1: Heart Radio page, or you just go to Stuff to 782 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,440 Speaker 1: Blow your Mind dot com um, or if you just 783 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: go to uh, I think the Instagram page, um, any 784 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,640 Speaker 1: of the others, there's often gonna be a link there 785 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,239 Speaker 1: for merchandise if you want to check that out. That's 786 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 1: just kind of a fun way to celebrate the brand. 787 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,880 Speaker 1: If you want a shirt or a like a mouse 788 00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:00,480 Speaker 1: pad or a throw pillow with our logo on it 789 00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,680 Speaker 1: or some other various designs, go check that out. We're 790 00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:05,960 Speaker 1: we're going to see about possibly adding some more designs 791 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,560 Speaker 1: this year. So also, yeah right into us and let 792 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:10,040 Speaker 1: us know if there's any kind of stuff to blow 793 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,840 Speaker 1: your mind merch that you think should exist. Likewise, I 794 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:15,560 Speaker 1: don't know, if there's any merch from our show that 795 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,399 Speaker 1: you think should not exist, let us know and we'll 796 00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:21,120 Speaker 1: make sure not to create that. Should we create designer 797 00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,680 Speaker 1: tumble weeds, which we we send to you by windmail, 798 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:30,280 Speaker 1: obviously not huge. Thanks as always to our excellent audio 799 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,120 Speaker 1: producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get 800 00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,520 Speaker 1: in touch with us with feedback on this episode or 801 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,200 Speaker 1: any other, to suggest topic for the future, just to 802 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,160 Speaker 1: say hello, you can email us at contact at stuff 803 00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:51,600 Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow your Mind. 804 00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,400 Speaker 1: It's production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for 805 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 1: My heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 806 00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:10,720 Speaker 1: or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows. The point 807 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:16,080 Speaker 1: four Pots of FO