WEBVTT - Colin Cowherd Podcast Prime Cuts - Coach K on NIL Explosion, Epic ‘91 UNLV Upset, Nick Wright on Lamar Landing Spots, Reese/Clark Aftermath 0:00:01.200 --> 0:00:14.400 The volume. This is Prime Cuts, the best of the 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:18.520 Colin Coward Podcast. Two great guests this week. Coach k 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:22.119 former Duke legend, joined me right before Yukon rolled to 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:25.440 the title No surprises there. He told me why he 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:28.800 wasn't surprised by Yukon's success and told a great story 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:31.560 about one of the great shots in Duke history. Plus, 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:34.120 my buddy Nick Wright hit a bunch of topics we 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:37.280 always do. But first my top takes of the week. 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:42.880 I want to start with some thoughts on Caitlin Clark, 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:46.720 the Iowa basketball star and Angel Reese, the great player 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:55.120 for the national champion LSU Club. Sometimes social media is 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:58.680 truth serum. People show you their lack of discipline by 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:02.560 what they post. People show you their politics, their leanings, 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:07.400 They show you their temper. I'm always amazed at people 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:12.959 who think they're invisible on Twitter. For the record, folks, 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:15.880 we have thirty employees now and growing at the volume. 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:21.280 I've literally not hired people because of how they act 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:27.280 on social media. Watching the media on this Caitlin Clark 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:32.200 Angel re situation was really striking. One of the reasons 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:35.680 I think women's basketball is so much better today than 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:40.200 twenty years ago. Is because it's feisty and there's a 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:44.240 little trash talk, and it's a little chippy, and there's 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:47.640 a little more physicality pushing and shoving from time to time. 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:53.640 That's the ultimate sign of growth because we've had that 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:58.680 men's basketball forever. Women's basketball, more than any sport in 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:02.680 this country, has improved over twenty five years. More young 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:06.120 women are being encouraged to be athletes. It's always been cool, 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:08.000 but a lot of people didn't get it and didn't 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:13.320 encourage women. When you watch LSU and you watch IOWA, 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:17.480 the people that rushed to Caitlin Clark's defense because of 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:22.600 some taunting by Angel Reese timeout, that's called one road 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:28.600 trip for Patrick Beverley. We don't rush to NBA men's defense. 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.880 It's part of au it's part of college basketball, it's 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:39.680 part of now all basketball. Nobody took a swing, Nobody 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:43.800 tried to physically intimidate Caitlyn Clark, and let's stop there. 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:48.400 Do you understand to get to the highest levels of 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:52.720 any form of basketball, women's basketball, do you understand how 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:55.560 tough you have to be, how resilient you have to be. 0:02:56.720 --> 0:03:00.239 Do you know how competitive Caitlin Clark can aim Jel 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.839 Reese are Since they picked up a basketball, people try 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:09.000 to intimidate them, box them out, get chippy. That's called basketball. 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:13.720 I watched Larry Bird trash talk and Gary Peyton trash talk. 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:18.640 If you really respect women, then allow them the same 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:23.800 freedoms that we allow men. Verbal sparring is part of 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:28.600 the sport. I watched Doctor Jay and Larry Bird throw 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:33.119 punches at each other. It didn't end their careers. They 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:37.080 were able to overcome it. Ten minutes later, Caitlin Clark 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:40.680 when asked about Angel Reese, I'll read you the quote. 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:46.240 We're competitive, we shore emotions in different way. She's tremendous. 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:48.920 I have nothing but respect for I love her game. 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:51.600 The way she rebounds, scores the ball incredible. I'm a 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:56.560 big fan of her. Stop pandering. She's okay, she's tough. 0:03:56.640 --> 0:04:00.400 She can handle it. Show the same respect you would 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:03.440 a guy playing basketball. He can handle some trash talk, 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:06.960 you know. Years ago, I worked with somebody named Christine Leahy. 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:12.120 She did the herd Line News Update, and she was 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:15.160 in her mid twenties and LaVar Ball came on the 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:18.280 show and started took some verbal shots at her. Didn't 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:20.640 try to physically intimidate her, but took some verbal shots 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:25.000 at her, and I didn't rush to her defense because 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:29.719 she immediately landed two or three of her own verbal shots, 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.200 and I didn't want to make her look weak. I 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:38.240 thought the ultimate sign of respect to either Jason McIntyre, 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:42.800 Christine Leahy Joy Taylor is their equals. They can handle 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:46.159 some sparring and trash talk. I mean, I have strong 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:50.840 opinions about athletes. Can I not handle a strong athlete 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:55.400 having an opinion about me. The point is, if you 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:59.480 really respect women, then you have to respect them enough 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:04.640 to understand and they can handle it right, They can 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:09.479 handle it. Caitlin Clark's fantastic Angel Reese is fantastic. I 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:12.560 don't want to hear about Well, when's the last time 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:17.720 that you saw a winning team taunt a losing player? Oh? 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:22.800 I don't know. All throughout the college football season. I mean, 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:26.560 you kidding me? In these rivalries, I remember Baker Mayfield 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:31.200 grabbing his junk on the sideline. I got guys at 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:36.400 the coin toss talking trash in college football one of 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:42.640 the most amazing parts of the women's Final four. What 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:48.120 about chippiness, Well, intimidation people trying to get into each 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:54.560 other's heads. Women's basketball's officially arrived. They can defend themselves. 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:57.360 Caitlin Clark's going to come back. She's going to be 0:05:57.360 --> 0:05:59.800 an All American. I will probably be one of the 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.520 if it's to win the national championship, but to get 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:08.159 to the top of even college sports, college baseball, college 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:13.000 women's men's basketball, college football, college wrestling, it doesn't matter 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.600 what it is. Do you know how tough and resilient 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:17.480 you have to be as an athlete, a man or 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:23.400 a woman. Show the women respect. I probably like the 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:28.839 business side of sports more than you do, but I 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:31.440 like it. And one of the cool things about owning 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:33.880 this company the volume I can talk about what I 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:36.400 want to talk about, and a lot of this stuff 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:39.599 I don't talk about on FS one or Premiere Radio. 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:46.080 So the WWE has been purchased by a company that 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:50.760 had previously purchased the UFC. Now the w w E 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:55.400 and the UFC together will form a separate company. And 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:57.719 here's why it's interesting to me. I know Nick con 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:01.480 and Dana White, who run the WWE and the UFC respectively, 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:09.479 and boxing, because it's been so poorly managed forever, has 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:14.000 really wilted and mostly vanished. There are occasional fights I like, 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:19.160 but it's just not consistently delivering entertainment. And I said 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:21.440 this years ago and I covered boxing in Vegas, that 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:25.600 the UFC took advantage of the scarcity of boxing matches 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:28.640 the cost whenever there was a good one. So UFC, 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:30.640 whether you like it or not, just delivers a more 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:38.680 consistent product. WWE same delivers a more consistent product. And 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:41.640 so to combine those two for a new business, to 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:46.000 me is utterly fascinating. And I went to the WrestleMania 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:48.520 with my son on Saturday night. At so far I 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:52.240 knew I could watch on YouTube TV highlights of the 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:56.440 college basketball games, which I did Sunday morning. So the 0:07:56.440 --> 0:08:01.760 best way to describe eighty thousand people at Rustlemania is 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:04.840 if you take yourself or you take life too seriously, 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:09.480 you're probably missing the point on Rustlemania. I don't think 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:11.520 my son, who's not a big sports fan. You know, 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:14.880 he likes to ski, he likes to water ski, anything 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:17.560 in the pool. He's good with a you know, he's 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:20.080 played a little basketball, a little soccer, a little football, 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:23.120 but not really a team sports kid. The environment. I 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:25.680 haven't seen him laugh like that. I haven't seen him 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:28.160 smile like that for three straight hours. I couldn't tell 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:32.439 you when it's just a spectacle. And you know, I 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:35.160 watched it as a kid, and then he used to 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:37.760 lampoon make fun of wrestling fans. But then when you 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:40.440 have kids, things change. And as a dad, I'm always 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:43.280 looking for connecting points with my son, who's very much 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:46.680 into science and tech, two things I'm not necessarily into. 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:49.440 So I'm always looking for like connecting points. And so 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:51.000 I told him, I said, we're gonna go to this, 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:54.040 and I have a feeling you're not going to know 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:57.240 all the storylines, but you're just gonna boo and share 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:01.800 thumbs up thumbs down. And we got pretty seats, and 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:05.800 i gotta tell you, it was as good a night 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:09.400 as I've had in a long time. And I've said 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:12.000 this before. My wife isn't into sports. She loves going 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:16.640 to UFC because she likes the spectacle, the crowd, the glamour, 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:21.400 the cocktails. My favorite sports to go to for years 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:23.520 and years was boxing, but there's just not that many 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:30.559 fascinating boxers or boxing matches. So I just found that 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:35.000 story at WWE and UFC being combined. I can't wait. 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:40.040 My wife and my son's favorite thing to go to, 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:46.440 and now they've morphed. Can't wait. So Mike, I thought 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:51.880 it was It's an interesting year. I follow recruiting, so Kentucky, Duke, 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:56.240 Michigan State, Yukon or having very vibrant recruiting years. So 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:59.680 I imagine next year the big brands will be back 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:04.480 at the Papa College Basketball, that's my guest. Or or 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:09.120 has the transfer portal created a new phenomena where the 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:14.760 San Diego States, the Florida Atlantics are going forward going 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:18.080 to have older players, elite transfers. How do you view 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:23.800 this wacky kind of unique March madness this year. Well, 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:27.880 I think it's a sign of the times. I think 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:29.839 there's going to be a mixture and they're going to 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:35.040 be more more really good teams. I'm not sure how 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:39.200 many great teams, because to be great, I think you 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.360 have to be together for a little bit more than 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:46.520 one year. And so over the years we've had good 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:50.440 recruiting classes and we've been able to try to mesh 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:53.600 them in one year and then a lot of them go. Well, 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:56.640 now when they were talking about one and done, they're 0:10:56.679 --> 0:11:01.000 about eighteen hundred one and duns in the transfer and 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:04.800 so now each year in the last few years, so 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:09.360 probably be more this year. And so how how can 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:14.160 people build chemistry in one year? And so the people 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:18.040 who go to the transfer portal a lot. Uh, they're 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:20.280 gonna have to spend time trying to figure out how 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:24.600 they how they developed culture. I just think, like when 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:27.000 the year started, I said, it's going to be wide open, 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:32.160 and I didn't think it would be this while, but 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:34.720 it's it's wide open, and I don't I don't think 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:39.079 anything's going to change next year. You know, Um, replacing 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:41.280 a legend is hard. I think you did it the 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:44.400 right way. You gave it a lot of thought, right 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:48.000 and John Shire, to me, really works. But have you 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:51.800 ever thought, okay, because if I'm John Shire, I'm like, okay, 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:54.360 I want to be respectful to coach k and the culture. 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:57.760 But what if there's something I really like? It really 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:00.800 is different than than Mike, Like, have you ever thought 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:04.080 about replacing you? Is not the easiest thing in the world. Well, 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:07.560 I've talked to my wife about it, and that time 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:11.400 she said that it wouldn't be that hard. But most 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:14.360 of the time she said it would be hard. You know, 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:17.240 it's not just picking the right person, but giving the 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:20.280 amount of time that's needed. John was with me for 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:23.839 nine years and when he was announced as the head coach, 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:27.400 we had a runway of about seventeen months before he 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:32.760 ever coached, so he could recruit two classes on his own. 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:36.200 In other words, were with them knowing that I'm not 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:39.679 going to be the coach, and the developed of relationships 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:42.240 that were needed. And I think you saw it this year. 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:46.080 He had great relationships with his team and we had 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:50.680 an outstanding year. I've always told me, just be you man, 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.080 being you. A lot of what you are will be 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:58.920 us because we've spent so much time together. But you 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:03.080 can't fill some on shoes. Just be comfortable into shoes 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:06.720 you're wearing, and you know our culture and you develop 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:09.719 it the way that you think is right. I have 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:12.679 all the confidence in the world and John, I am 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:16.200 a big fan of new things, but also regulation, be 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:19.760 at Wall Street or tech. I am for the transfer 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:24.240 portal and nil. But there needs to be guard rails 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:26.960 right for everything. It doesn't matter if it's our freeways, 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:30.400 our government, Silicon Valley, or college sports. It was a 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:34.680 little to me wild wild West for the first fifteen 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:39.280 months it was just the gold rush? Right, Is there 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:41.120 anything you see so far? If you could make a 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.400 change and go, like on the NIL, let's start with 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:47.080 the transfer portal, because the NIL some schools are just 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:49.079 not going to partake in it. But transfer portals here 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:52.440 for everybody. Is there anything you would say, hey, let's 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:55.840 be very careful of this or maybe alter this. Yeah? 0:13:55.880 --> 0:14:00.880 I think first of all, both concepts are really good. 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:05.480 There were intended consequences that are easy to see. You know, 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:10.720 an athlete should be allowed to benefit from their name, 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:15.600 image and likeness. An athletes should have the opportunity to 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:19.520 move and so okay, that sounds really good. Yeah, But 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.080 if it's a business, you say, okay, these are the 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:26.480 intended consequences, what would be the unintented In other words, 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:31.000 put the guardrails up before you let the horses out, 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:36.080 and once they're out, like, I don't see how you 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:42.720 can control NIL completely. And it's a pre market. Yeah, 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:45.160 if you have a better NIL than meet, what are 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:47.240 you going to give it up? Is someone going to 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:50.160 put a limit? Where do we put a limit on 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:53.560 anybody in our society and how much they make? And 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:58.040 so the transfer portal, I think it's been confused a 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:01.760 little bit with the extra year of COVID. You see, 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:06.080 I mean that combination Nil, you add that to it, 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:10.720 add that to it, and so you have guys who 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:14.240 you know, there are three different schools. You know, they're 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:17.479 in a five year year period. I think the average 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:20.880 age was a year and a half older this year 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:26.600 than it's normally been for college and for college teams. 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:29.880 And the thing that happens too when these kids stay, 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:34.120 there are less scholarships for the high school kids. And 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:39.000 so that was not an intended consequence I think. I 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.480 think first of all, we think Congress is going to 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:45.080 solve all this. We got to be Rooney Tunes here, 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:51.040 and but the main thing Congress can do is to 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:55.280 make it equitable in every state, which it isn't. Transfer 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:59.320 portal is equitable, Nil is not. There's some states that 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.680 don't allow it, and so it's got to be equal 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:07.760 for everybody. And you know, my big thing, I wish 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:11.520 we could take men's and women's basketball and make it 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:16.000 its own entity, just like football is, and be autonomous. 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.720 Have a certain foundation of rules with the NC double A, 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:25.720 but let our two sports, our sport be run like 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:32.840 a business. Have a marketing plan. Have the autonomous Football 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:38.560 is autonomous. The game of basketball is not speaking of 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:42.240 the game of basketball. I just read where the NBA 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:48.960 is proposing going forward a positionless all NBA team, which 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:51.560 and I remember years ago I worked in Portland. This 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:53.400 is a long time ago. Bob wits. It was the 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:57.200 GM and I remember Bob smart guy saying Colin, you 0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:59.640 guys in the media get too caught up on positions. 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:02.760 I just one good, good, long, fast, twitchy basketball players. 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:05.520 I don't care. So Bob was about twenty years ahead 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:11.320 of me, right unintended consequence, I do like an old 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:14.720 school point guard who distributes first score second. That's me. 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:18.400 I'm probably outdated. What do you make of positionless basketball? 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.600 Or does it Lebron make everybody think it's easy? Or 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:24.240 the truth is, positions are pretty good. It's just Lebron's 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:26.760 blown it up because he can do anything. Well. You 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:29.680 know your love for the point guard. I'm a point guard, 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:32.800 so in some essence you have a love for me. 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:37.120 But then maybe it's not that big. But the old 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:41.119 fashioned point guard just doesn't exist, or it's so like 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.679 an extinct animal. Run of it right now, you know, 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:49.160 really in the late eighties and early nineties, we started 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.679 at Duke what I call positionless. I always used to 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:56.720 tell my staff and family, Well, desistn't a baseball team. 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:00.000 There's not a third baseman. They go to a position. 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:04.080 Why the heck do we have guards, forwards and centers? 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:07.959 You know? Just introduce him as as players and in 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:11.199 other words, like you and I are two of the 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:14.840 top four players on a team, and we are both 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.440 the two guard. Am I only going to play one 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:20.399 of us? Or am I going to play my four 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:23.880 best players? I'm going to play both of us? So 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:27.639 why put a limit on us? Saying that, you know 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.640 we're two guards, we're really good basketball players, and both 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:33.200 of us can shoot. I always like saying that because 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:39.119 ye wasn't I wasn't referred to as a good shooter. 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:45.480 So's that analogy? Actually, I feel pretty good about it. Well, 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:48.240 you were a defender, and you were tough. You had 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:50.600 the many of the Chris Paul qualities I like, which 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:53.000 is That's where I'm I'm very much about. I like 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:55.480 the new basketball. I think it's very very skilled. I 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:59.399 covered Arvidas Sabonis, who was pre Yoki almost like a 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:02.600 point now he would have been the greatest player, one 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:08.080 of the great if he was here young, yeah, young 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:11.320 boy and his in early twenties, he would be one 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:13.560 of the top five or ten players in the history 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:17.359 of the game. Uh yeah, no question about it. You 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:22.919 got him later in his probably mid thirties or yes, yeah, yeah, 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:26.600 But he was a great player, not a good Oh oh, 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:28.600 I mean Mike. He would hit a twenty four footer 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:31.119 and he would make a behind the back pass. I 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:36.480 got the heavy footed Arvitas Sabonis. Yes, remarkable player and 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:39.919 a fun guy to cover. So do you remember, because 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:43.640 really what you you you Nick Saban, It doesn't matter 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:46.919 if it's Beheim Mark few your talent accumulators. So what 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:51.360 you're doing is you're a and you're finding kids who 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:55.320 aren't fully developed emotionally physically. It's very difficult to pro 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:58.720 football coach. I get four years of film through college. 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.960 I know what he can and can't do. You're taking kids. 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:05.920 I'm a late I'm a I blossom late. I think 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:08.840 in my career, I think a lot of people do. Um, 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:14.840 how often do you see a player and did you 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:19.440 know instantly, oh, okay, that person will be a pro. 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:24.000 Now at Duke I think a lot of people would suggest, oh, 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:28.359 it's duke guys, but you've recruited some three star guys 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:31.600 in your career. How follow it? How often did you 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:35.320 see a lebron Ish player and go okay, that's done? 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:40.359 Or the players develop more slowly than most of us think. Yeah, 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:43.639 well there are a few. I mean, you can see 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:49.159 Scion if Grant Hill was in this time. Yes, you know, 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:56.760 uh dose players, Uh, Jason Tatum, you know Bagley one, 0:20:56.800 --> 0:21:00.240 Dell Carter could probably say it another year, but you 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:04.160 can see it. But you also you also can see 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:07.280 like where their bodies. In other words, do they fit 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:13.399 the dimensions of an NBA player wingspan? It's not just height, 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:19.320 it's wingspan, speed, okay, And then are they where are 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:23.880 they emotionally? We try to recruit kids with good character 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:27.640 because they're gonna in order to not just to get there, 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:30.520 but to stay, they're going to have to have balance. 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:34.960 And so we're able to see that pretty much with 0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:38.480 the guards. Like when I saw Tias Jones the first time, 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:42.880 I said, Wow, this kid's like a machine. Now he 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:47.439 is an old point guard, and when he has his 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:50.919 name on that ball, you can't when he throws it 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:53.080 you better catch it because he doesn't want to turn 0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:55.920 it over. When I saw him the first time, I said, 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:58.399 I gotta have him. I didn't know that he would 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:01.280 be a pro rud away. I felt that he would 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:05.720 be a pro after Awhile Mike Dunleavy. When we recruited him, 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:09.840 he saw out of Portland and yeah, and he was 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:12.720 six six and a half one seventy five, had no 0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:16.280 hair on his chest, did not shave. Three years later 0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:18.040 he was six to nine and a half and two 0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:23.000 thirty and so there's some guys brandon Ingram. When we 0:22:23.000 --> 0:22:26.159 recruited him, I told his parents they were going to 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:30.560 the McDonald's game. I said, we're not allowed the first day. 0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:33.960 The pro people will be there. Your son will be 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:38.240 a top five draft pick after the workout. And they said, 0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:41.840 what do you mean. I said, he's got all the dimensions. 0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:45.720 He's got you. Not only that, but he can play 0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:49.919 any position. He can be a guard. And so you 0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:53.440 can see those those type of things and predict them, 0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:57.480 and some kids you can't. Batty did not fit, and 0:22:57.520 --> 0:23:01.119 he wasn't a great athlete, but for a while he 0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:08.200 became he was intellectually ahead of others and in today's game, 0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:12.240 the younger players are not They're more athletic, but they're 0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:15.840 not as savvy about the game as the players even 0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:20.119 five years ago. That's something with all the workout guys 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:24.359 and that they're great, but they teach you stuff with 0:23:24.480 --> 0:23:27.840 the ball. And if we're playing a forty minute game 0:23:28.080 --> 0:23:33.160 in college, if you have the ball three minutes, that's 0:23:33.200 --> 0:23:38.359 a lot. So you better learn the game without the ball. 0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:42.040 You got to learn to get your shot before you 0:23:42.080 --> 0:23:46.960 get the ball. That's not taught to the level that 0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:50.440 it used to be. So I think we're getting better athletes, 0:23:50.560 --> 0:23:55.240 but more undertaught players as far as the game goes. 0:23:56.680 --> 0:23:59.320 I always love when the Patriots played the Chiefs. You 0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:02.280 got a I get a chess match between Belichick's brain 0:24:02.359 --> 0:24:06.400 and Andy Reid's I love that. I love when they play. 0:24:06.800 --> 0:24:09.080 Was there a coach and maybe it's a well known coach. 0:24:09.080 --> 0:24:12.240 It's a Jim Calhoun, Um, it's a Dean Smith. But 0:24:12.440 --> 0:24:15.639 is there a coach maybe that I wouldn't think of 0:24:15.640 --> 0:24:18.480 off the top of my head. That you love the 0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:23.320 intellectual chess match that he was just move for move. 0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:26.439 You always knew it was not only between Duke and 0:24:26.440 --> 0:24:29.080 a team. It was between you and that coach. Yeah, 0:24:29.119 --> 0:24:33.280 I think that the frequency of the time he competed 0:24:33.320 --> 0:24:38.359 against Dean Smith, you know, because he you know, he 0:24:38.440 --> 0:24:42.080 was a remarkable coach and he had immense loyalty from 0:24:42.160 --> 0:24:46.760 his from his players. You know, he really really wanted 0:24:46.760 --> 0:24:52.600 a great coaches of any sport. Uh, my buddy Jim Valvano. Uh. 0:24:53.000 --> 0:24:58.800 The spontaneity of doing anything at any time. There was 0:24:58.840 --> 0:25:04.000 some predictable with some coaches up to a point, and 0:25:04.040 --> 0:25:09.120 then there was the unpredictability of like like Jim and uh. 0:25:09.640 --> 0:25:13.800 But you know, sometimes you play against your coach, against 0:25:13.800 --> 0:25:17.040 the team that you say, I don't know if I 0:25:17.080 --> 0:25:20.520 can coach a team better than John Becker at Vermont, 0:25:21.359 --> 0:25:26.720 you know, and who year after year just produced his 0:25:26.960 --> 0:25:30.679 that that high level of team. I thought one of 0:25:30.720 --> 0:25:33.680 my good friends friend Dumphy, who got back into college 0:25:34.200 --> 0:25:38.679 coaching when he was the coach at Penn, he was 0:25:38.800 --> 0:25:43.919 on a decade movement of just he got it at 0:25:44.000 --> 0:25:48.120 a high at a high level. But now I think 0:25:48.160 --> 0:25:52.159 you weren't from coaching against all different types of people. 0:25:52.240 --> 0:25:55.000 But those are a few of the ones that made 0:25:55.000 --> 0:25:58.320 an impact on me. I remember covering I was a 0:25:58.359 --> 0:26:03.399 young sportscaster. I was in Denver. Bobby Hurley had about 0:26:03.440 --> 0:26:11.080 with stomach sickness all ye that yeah, And so I 0:26:11.119 --> 0:26:13.879 remember you saying it could have been to me or 0:26:13.920 --> 0:26:16.399 a group because I was in Vegas as a sportscaster. 0:26:17.119 --> 0:26:19.560 You and this meant so much to Tark. I can't 0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:22.240 tell you how much this meant to Tark. You said, 0:26:22.760 --> 0:26:26.439 we play hard at Duke. I've never seen any team 0:26:27.000 --> 0:26:30.439 play that hard between Gurgerich and Tark, and I covered Tark. 0:26:30.960 --> 0:26:33.320 You have no idea. You and Mickey were very complimentary 0:26:33.320 --> 0:26:36.440